Doctor Who: River Song's Timeline | Silence in the Library | Season 4 Ep 8

[@nocturne8333]

The moment where he asks her who she is, you can see River’s heart break. Alex Kingston is such a fantastic actor that she was able to portray that having never played River before.

[@soundgal_sine_qua_non]

My favorite nuance watching it this way is how settled River is compared to her early days. Her attachment is more healthy and secure after 24 years with her husband. Its similar to how you can see a difference in Capaldi's Doctor after 24 years with his wife 💙💙

[@ryanakers1372]

The fact that not even Alex knew what was coming for her character in future seasons and yet her performance still perfectly fits the story all these years later is just brilliant!!

[@bemasaberwyn55]

5:58 fun detail that Matt points and laughs at baby Melody

[@thegentleartoffisticuffs6983]

I just noticed that Alex Kingston selling how she's always known the Doctor in only her first outing, mirrors Peter Capaldi selling that he's always known River in the last story!

[@BiDave]

I remember after seeing The Husbands of River Song I immediately came back to watch this two parter. Man does it hit different seeing it like that.🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺 (I'm not crying, you're crying! 😭)

[@bemasaberwyn55]

She told her father about that moment. And despite it being filmed first, Alex sells it so well. 8:07 this moment 😢😢

[@speedhuntr]

I forever love how much Donna is Big Sister coded.

[@christianwise637]

While writing this story, Moffat needed to come up with an excuse for the archaeologists to trust the Doctor and work with him, despite this being a sealed-off library planet. He didn't want to use the psychic paper, and his initial idea of having the Doctor know one of the team was one that he felt was too dull and predictable. Which led to him flipping that dynamic, having the archaeologist be the one who knew the Doctor with him having no clue who she was, and the rest, as they say, was history. It's kind of crazy how Moffat coming up with a way to get himself out of a narrative tight spot was what spun off and led to arguably the most emotionally significant overarching story of his entire Who career...

[@Psi105]

The underlying architecture / software is what makes his screwdriver his screwdriver. The look doesn't really matter, it changes all the time. The doctor notices that it's his screwdriver by how it works.

[@josefschiltz2192]

Thing is though, there was 24 years for the appearance of River's sonic to alter again, so it doesn't necessarily have to exactly match the one we saw at Darillium anyway.

[@davedove67]

These episodes hit differently looking back at them, especially the next episode.

[@williammcnirlan4820]

Totally agree. First time I rewatched this after the end of the Matt Smith era, this episode had the wrong Doctor. Weird feeling going back to a known Doctor.

[@Uatu-the-Watcher]

Don’t forget. River sees the Doctor after the Library. She’s with 11 on Transalor with Clara (not at 11’s end).

[@otps8035]

8:45 I just noticed that “you heard him people let there be light” might be a reference to the pandorica opens/ the Big Bang, or the other way around ( when Moffat wrote the Big Bang and pandorica opens he added the line let there be light?!!!!) What do you think?😮

[@moondom]

This episode and the next one were some of my favorites just for the creep factor (and the ten&donna vibes), and while I enjoyed the mystery of this woman who knows the doctor but he doesn't know her, I didn't connect all that much to River's storyline - until watching in this order with you! It's soooo much more emotional and tragic, and definitely gave me a new appreciation for her as a character the whole way through.

[@moriquendi32]

These episodes were strong and emotional on a first time viewing - but much more so on repeat viewings.

[@DavidSmith-cx8dg]

I knew Alex from Moll Flanders and ER before this I think but she really proved what a good actor she is in her River episodes .This was so intriguing and her reaction when she realised the Doctor didn't know her was utterly convincing . Great imagination and writing by Stephen Moffat on a par with Blink . Watching her story from this perspective has really highlighted how good it is and it's been enhanced by Paula & Kats reactions , looking forward to next week s conclusion with mixed emotions .

[@christianwise637]

We really were so lucky to have her be the one playing this character, a part of me will always be curious about that alternate timeline where the production team were able to get Kate Winslet for the role (as was originally planned), I really can't imagine anyone else playing River.

[@firefly24601]

When she first showed up here i was like "Dr Corday????" 😄

[@Dubble77D]

"Picnic at Asgard" Moffat was delivering gaps to Big Finish from the jump with River. He closed a few himself, but left enough in the grey area for BF to take over and write their own wonderful stories.

[@nocturne8333]

@@Dubble77D The eventual short story that Picnic at Asgard was released as was really sweet too, River determining that the Doctor would be a good parent with her.

[@christianwise637]

Also love that she name-dropped "Crash of the Byzantium" in the same scene - Moffat setting up his future stories well in advance

[@DGSAFDMD]

River Song is the reason I started watching Who so… can’t wait to cry next week with you guys :)

[@ghostsurfer23]

River meeting a version of the Doctor early enough that he hasn't met her yet at all hits even harder (both for River and the audience) when you know the last version of the Doctor she spent time with (for decades, no less) is the one furthest along in his timeline, ergo the one who knows her the best. River recognizing 10 so easily also calls something to mind for me. You can assume River has had some side adventures with a later version of 10, like stuff from novels or audio dramas, or that she was just going by the photos she had of every incarnation. But I think if either of those options are true, River should understand quicker that 10 doesn't know her. So which is it? Third option: in Classic Who, there's a lot of instances where Time Lords just recognize each other automatically regardless of the incarnation they're in. They see the person behind the face (unless the plot needs them to not be able to do that, but it still happens a lot) River obviously isn't a Time Lord, but she can regenerate, and they cite the reason for that being that she was conceived above the Time Vortex, so... she's Time Lord esque. I think she just recognized him as the Doctor, and it didn't click for her until she brings it up that he's so much younger than she's used to.

[@willellis5357]

I personally think there's a possibility that River could have stopped by Donna's family while 14 was there. It'd be sometime after the last time she saw 11 and before meeting 12. That would make the "You're so young" line that much more accurate.

[@firefly24601]

What a great re-reaction to this episode. Fangs for the memories, Kat!

[@kevenpinder7025]

I have a secret hope that someday the new Doctor will ne Rupert Grint, just to see him do a double take in a mirror, smile, and say... "Finally, a ginger."

[@frenchiekolsson]

This is such a cool way to see the story I’ve never done it, in this whole drought this is great

[@arnothill]

question - Would we like to see more Who characters that meet the Doctor in a timey-wimey way in the River Song manner? I’m trying to think of other figures in The Doctor’s life that already share that experience, but I can’t seem to fix one in my mind. There is certainly mileage in introducing a villain that battles The Doctor out of his linear time.RTD! take note.

[@ninevoices9401]

Alex Kingston is a Goddess walking among us mere mortals.

[@paulflux5892]

For the record, I'm a Stephen Moffat fan, and I *love* River Song's story! He is so good at making the mundane scary. And the catchphrases he's added to the Who canon; are you my mummy?, dont blink!, who turnedout the lights?, silence will fall!

[@dqixsoss7436]

Loving these reactions

[@shadaxe]

It's truly a shame that they didn't create a River's Diary television spin-off.

[@dustinherk8124]

no River sees him at least once more, POST MORTEM. one of the few times a sci fi show depicts uploaded intelligence, at the time of filming.

[@elvwood]

I didn't expect it to hit so much harder this way around!

[@deathswitch2404]

Moffat praise?! What's going on here... Imposters! 😂

[@WayneFawcett-v1h]

I hope you see this Moffat.... WELL DONE!

[@zvimur]

Every time I see Talulah Riley in "Silence" I look her up in IMDb. She scared me in Westworld.... (she was blonde there😅)

[@zvimur]

Ehmm.... Name of the Doctor not scheduled?😢

[@geofftottenperthcoys9944]

Alex Kingston kicked it out of the world with this character!

[@S0ldeed]

2 episodes left? I'm not ready. What's the next Who adventure? I'm actually really really really liking Paula's revisiting some of the Moffat ire. I'd like to see a couple more... Especially if it means more Capaldi.

[@zvimur]

Microscopic spore devouring victims, ghosts in software.... anybody having Stanislaw Lem vibes.

[@rodentnolastname6612]

According to my deep Whovian buddy, the Squareness Gun goes back to a Dr Who comic book. 🤟😎

[@orchidwave2574]

How annoying would it have been for a casual Dr Who viewer dipping in and out of watching the show to have missed this episode then seen some of River's later appearances and go...okay, obviously I'm really really missing something... Also, aside from the momentous introduction of River's character, let's not forget what a great story this was for Donna. And Kudos to the later teams for running with this concept so faithfully as the years and different regenerations came and went.

[@uncannyparker4028]

if Moffat had to have one good/coherent storyline, i’m glad it was her

[@zvimur]

The last 5 minutes of "Husbands" have us believe that River in the Library ignored the decades long night on Darilium. Moffat can't leave well enough alone.

[@jacobhogan3208]

Not me missing this notification for 3 hours lmao.

[@dylanbottom4669]

Remember to watch series 7 episode 13 for the last video

[@willellis5357]

Hey. Who turned out the lights?

[@nigelthomas2089]

Don't forget "Name of the Doctor".

[@VonBlade]

I'm watching this merely to make your introduction partly a lie, because you know I watch the Dwarf. Also I'm so old that Tom Baker is my doctor. Yay for creaky knees.

[@josefschiltz2192]

If Hartnell is your Doctor, they are even creakier!

[@DavidSmith-cx8dg]

Remember An unearthly child well , the knees aren't too bad at the moment , everything else is a different story . . .

[@josefschiltz2192]

@@DavidSmith-cx8dg There's a distinct click in my right one. Trouble is, we didn't get a TV until '64.

[@FourthDrawerDown]

Kat, could you wear the fangs every week?

[@MichaelKolczynski]

😭

[@otps8035]

Why are you on video and not together in real life, please?

[@travisbounds4746]

when ya'll gonna start lower-decks again

[@firefly24601]

When Legend of Vox Machina reactions are over, and also when they've watched Star Trek: First Contact.

[@travisbounds4746]

@ they’re gonna have to watch all the movies. If they really wana. Go forward. Esp for Picard. They seem adamantly opposed to doing da9 tho now that they’re doing bsg they might wanna do da9

[@firefly24601]

@@travisbounds4746 That would be nice if they had the time to watch all the movies, but they don't unfortunately. 10,000 Patrons and they will react to DS9!

[@obiwankenobi687]

She can’t be surprised he doesn’t know who she is, last episode he more or less confirmed this is the last night they spend together. She can’t be heartbroken and so shocked when she’s about to die and that the Doctor always knew how as again, she was told this was the last time they see eachother . The story she tells tenant as she dies is also full of holes and lies. It’s literally not what happens in husbands of riversong. Moffat made this episode so much worse with husbands. I don’t see how he couldn’t have written a better connection to this story. He didn’t turn up on her doorstep, he didn’t ‘take her to the singing towers’ ‘The last time I saw you’, so…the 24 year long night. That episode is NOT the last time she sees him it would be the last day of a 24 year marriage with her husband that would class as ‘the last time I saw you’. So, another lie for some reason. Moffats insistence on happy endings for literally everyone ruined his one and only tragic story. The tragic story where she survives anyway inside a computer. Husbands was a real, real miss for me and ruins this story as a result

[@nocturne8333]

@@obiwankenobi687 We know from this episode that River has had previous offscreen adventures with the Tenth Doctor. She considers him a safe face who knows she exists. Considering how scared she was of the Doctor not knowing her when she spoke to Rory about it in The Impossible Astronaut, it was probably wilful blindness on her part. She thought he was safe and he wasn’t, she even thinks that he’s playing coy and acting like he doesn’t know her, just like Twelve did the last time she saw him. She tells Rory that she has a feeling that day would kill her, but she certainly didn’t know what was going to happen. She even tried to send the Doctor a message on his psychic paper, but got the timing wrong. River was trying to get an extra meeting but it backfired. Also, the Doctor does ‘turn up on her doorstep’ at the start of the episode when she’s crashed Hydroflax’s ship. River can’t spoil the exact details, and she’s looking back on what was an unusually romantic time with her husband, who she’s having to reassure even as she’s about to die.

[@obiwankenobi687]

@ he didn’t turn up on her doorstep though. At all. And the last night I saw you speech is talking about the 1st five minutes of a night that lasts 24 years, that five minute segment at the end of the episode is not the last time she sees him. She says ‘Nardole what have you brought to my doorstep’ as a figure of speech. You don’t talk in figures of speech when you’re on your death bed for gods sake. ‘We partied until the cows came home’. doesn’t translate into ‘the last time, I saw you, the real you, the future you I mean….we took some cows back into their houses’ people don’t talk like that Her original story was someone deeply in love with the Doctor who’s life is tragically cut short when she has to sacrifice herself for the love of her life, a man who doesn’t even know who she is. It’s now the story of a woman who has met every single version of the Doctor, lived well beyond a normal human lifespan who got to spend 24 years in married bliss before then popping off to a library, getting moody and sad over an event she was fully told to expect in her last episode and then ‘dying’ and being saved to a computer. There’s no tragedy, there’s no life cut short, there’s a woman who has lived life to the full, lived for decades and decades and decades who naturally comes to the end of her lifespan more or less. For me, not for you, not for these two, but for me, Moffat massively ruined her original story as it doesn’t tally up at all with husbands because he can’t bare to not give someone a happy ending. A happy ending right before yet another happy ending when she’s saved to the computer the very next story timeline wise, It’s cheap, it’s poor, it’s a round peg in a square hole and it’s a disservice to the wonderful silence in the library/forest of the dead. He has a start and a finish line and whatever happens in between those points can be however messy he wants it to be, but to not have the very start of her story line up properly with the very end, when you’ve had like what? 7 years to write it is just poor

[@misticl1244]

@@obiwankenobi687 I mean they always spoken to each other in kind of sassy jump of each other kind of way, (think back to angels take Manhattan where she says 'wait till my husband comes home' and then ask him 'what time do you call this?!' Obviously he's not actually come home late but its a part of their dynamic to verbally spar and talk in metaphor) River doesn't really have a 'home' like most people because she is a time traveler so it makes sense to me that the doctor turning up in her time and current location is equivalent to him turning up at her door. I get that 24 years isn't a night on earth but that is 1 night on Darillium the doctor uses earth years as a frame of reference for river and even so I think that is again an example of the metaphor the use which each other especially because River would be hyper aware of never telling the Doctor the full truth because she's trying to avoid spoilers so it would be something she'd do without thinking even if its the end of her life especially because of how much that future means to her she would never do anything to put it of course like tell the doctor too much I do get your point and I find it so frustrating that Moffat can't just kill a character! I guess with River I'm okay with it because she's such a good character and for us as the viewers this was the first time he'd done this