Doctor Who: The Legend Of Ruby Sunday SPOILER Discussion - Is Mrs Flood A Time Lord?!

[@carschmn]

I love how there are 2 70-year-old women in the ensemble of this show this year.

[@myrddinemrys1332]

Three. Don't forget Cherry!

[@GlenFinney]

@@myrddinemrys1332true! And the three are some of the best of it!

[@Zestieee]

I think it's great to have older people in the cast. But none will ever top Wilfred

[@GlenFinney]

@@Zestieee Wilfred Mott / Bernard Cribbins were the OGs!

[@LegoStarWarsTheSkywalkerSaga56]

It’s the Daleks 😲😁

[@harveyburton7]

I don't understand why this "Storm" prevents Mrs. flood from making Cherry a cuppa tea.

[@aprildawnsunshine4326]

Perhaps it's going to hit so soon she doesn't have time to do that And save Cherry. She's staying with her to protect her. The ceiling didn't crack in Cherry's room so maybe it's fortified in some way?

[@Reprodestruxion]

She’s looking for an Organ

[@BruhsCookieJar]

Some people unplug appliances and don’t use electricity during storms… maybe she is one of them?

[@Lickymaballs]

It was her true colors coming out as she is showing that she is not the nice old lady she is pretending to be. and that she is a villanin desguise.

[@crabbitwife5463]

You ever tasted tea with sand in it?

[@josephcooter5763]

Unit really only has ONE Scientific advisor: The Doctor. Everyone else is just filling in while he galavants across Time and Space.

[@shemdellashemygd29]

W morris

[@KevFrost]

Everyone else is "just a temp"

[@josephcooter5763]

@@KevFrost More or less

[@MSHarvey_Lyricsmith]

Tell that to Liz Shaw who had the position before the Doctor took over.

[@GraciousInk1530]

@@MSHarvey_Lyricsmith Liz Shaw was the Doctors assistant. Anne Travers had the position before the Doctor.

[@stevader]

When Rose Noble said that she's been "investigating shoplifting in Catford", I couldn't help but think that if you steal something from "catford", you're left with "C A Ford". But maybe that's just me.

[@Andreamom001]

I wonder if anyone shoplifted tea…?

[@kbg12ila]

​@@Andreamom001CHERRY SUNDAY IS SUSAN!

[@anniesharp4871]

Wow! You know, I have been thinking Cherry will play an important role. As good as her one liners have been, Angela Wynter is too good of an actor to waste on a few funny phrases here and there. Also, I found it interesting that Ruby specified her gran, not Carla, as the person who asked for and retrieved the CCTV VHS tape.

[@JoeThornhill]

Who or what's C A Ford, then?

[@judithstrachan9399]

@@JoeThornhillCarol Ann Ford played Susan, the Doctor’s granddaughter. Her photo keeps popping up in WhoCulture videos.

[@eh708]

With Susan Triad, after she ‘awakens’ she says that she is here to bring Sutekhs gift of death. What if the different Susans were planted by Sutekh to spread his gift across time and space, sort of how Ego in Guardians 2 did.

[@jonesnori]

Oh, I like this idea! I mean, I hate this idea, but it's an amazing idea!

[@eh708]

@@jonesnori What you hate the fact that all of time and space will be consumed by Sutekh? 😂

[@Capricorn152]

That one Welsh village is fucked then 😂😂

[@kineticnotion]

Maybe this links in with Lindy saying her mum was ‘lucky’ to die, like it was a gift

[@bradleyworth4917]

They have said that the multiverse would be introduced into the story

[@HarveyAndson]

During the reveal I was sooo sure it was about to be the Beast because of the voice. And this reveal is what made me realise that the Beast from series 2 shared the same voice as Sutekh

[@occheermommy]

Plus Ruby’s mom mentioned it’s the beast. Idk if she was referring to g to that on a biblical level or what but that and the voice made me think so too

[@GentDave3]

In pyramids of Mars Sutekh is identified with Satan - so close to the same thing.

[@Happymama12]

So was I lol the impossible planet/Satan pit is one of my favorite episodes. It was very reminiscent of it because he starts going through different names that he is called, which happens in the Satan pit. Also in one of the trailers the doctor mentions the whole world falling into “the pit”. Carla calls him the beast. Then when I heard it was the same voice actor I thought that was interesting. But yea I was convinced it was the beast too lol I always wanted him to come back somehow. He’s something that needed to be chained and locked away and ended up just being a consciousness I don’t think he could just die from being sucked out into space tbh 🤷‍♀️ they beat it but it didn’t go away.

[@nurimep]

Sutekh is called the beast The beast is sutekh as well.

[@alvadagansta]

Should’ve been the beast tbh. Especially since that has a connection with David tennant I’m sure I’m not in the minority when I say I have no clue who sutekh is. Felt like a left field random name when I saw the episode

[@JasperTheTimidCat]

I enjoy Ellie’s (and Sean’s) spoiler discussions so much, as someone without Dr Who watcher friends. So much knowledge and enthusiasm. 10/10 Malcoms.

[@ugolomb]

Here's one way they can *almost* wrap it up and leave a *tiny* cliffhanger: The Doctor defeats Sutekh, Ruby's origins are revealed, but near the end we get a hint that Susan Foreman (who wouldn't be involved in the actual story beyond her initial role as a red herring) is actually around -- which then suggests that the Christmas special will involve the Doctor's renewed search for her

[@nancyjay790]

So Nicola Coughlan will be Susan?

[@CatDeville]

In CLASSIC Who, Unit only had one "Scientific Advisor" which was The Doctor, yes. But since Nu Who, they have had (at least one) Scientific Advisor *ON SITE* because the Doctor is no longer there on a regular basis. But why has no one considered that UNIT, being military, would likely have a Division of Scientific Advisement (or some such title) and they would probably have just ONE Advisor On Duty at a time, but since humans *SLEEP* (and are not effective beyond somewhere between 8-12 hrs.) and would likely work in shifts? Perhaps Shirley is not not on shift at this specific time?

[@Becvar80]

I miss the TARDIS fading in and out and the ICONIC sound that comes with it. I hope it comes back now that Sutekh is revealed.

[@kineticnotion]

I feel like Lindy saying her mum was SO lucky to be dead was a subtle hint at Sutekhs ‘gift of death’

[@ryansg9]

i think both susan triad and harbinger are both unwilling accomplaces to Sutehk. Harriet was crying while she was doing the monologue before the skeletor transformation, it wasn't gleeful like Henry for Maestro, and susan seemed terrified and in agony. I think sutehk may have created Harriet and planted her in UNIT but she wasn't aware of it, and whatever tech that Susan Triad has or is using drew his attention and was the catalyst for all this, so he made her his accomplice using her as an object of intrigue to lure the doctor in. Susan also mentioned "orange skies" when she was remembering during her transformation, which seems like a Galifray reference, which implies susan triad has been scattered along the doctors path much longer than we realise.

[@Zestieee]

And the Toymaker was also scared to face Sutekh alone. And Maestro feared the Oldest One. I'd love if the story was that the rest of the Pantheon and their subordinates are unhappy to be under Sutekh's control and might be plotting to defeat him but they needed to get the Doctor involved to take advantage of him. It just sounds really cool

[@hermiona1147]

Honestly you were mostly right

[@racerunner1234]

Soooooo…. So Susan Foreman is played by Carol Anne Ford, right? In TLoRS Mrs Flood goes to take CARE of Cherry Sunday, who is Ruby’s Gran. Another word for Gran is NAN. Put them together: Nan Care Flood NAN CARE FLOOD IS AN ANAGRAM OF CAROL ANNE FORD MRS FLOOD IS SUSAN i think i’ve gone insane

[@wouldyoulikeajellybaby]

My brain just went on holiday for a second there

[@jsnow7919]

This fandom is not OK anymore 😅😂

[@mil9102]

Here before this blows up.. 😅

[@adampica9815]

Haven’t we all?

[@IsiahBradley]

Or you're brilliant. We'll find out :)

[@petedenkaat]

so glad to see that you kidz were bringing up points that i made in this weeks Mr Tardis chat :) soooo, if Sutekh was causing the Tardis to behave in the way it has been, then obviously Sutekh has been attached to the tardis since before the events of wild blue yonder. bear in mind that the universe was half detroyed, during Flux, which means that the void, were sutekh had been waiting, was much larger then previous..... leaving Sutekh with better odds of finding the Doctor.... so, Sutekh could have been sitting on top of the tardis sinse the end of flux.....

[@ashleyhoover1559]

Sean and Ellie, I did watch a interview or hear something that Russell T Davis said that in credit openings when you see the tardis flying pay attention to the tardis because you’ve noticed that there’s something wrong with it. Thank you for doing these. I really hope I wrote this right I did it with voice to text.

[@hollybushrailway]

First thought... Seán's redecorated... I don't like it ;)

[@WhoCulture]

We understood that reference.

[@geoffroi-le-Hook]

You never do.

[@YTAgnesAnne]

😂

[@sjh-video]

My Mrs Flood Theory… I think she is also from Phaester Osiris (the homeworld of the Osirans as mentioned in Pyramids Of Mars) and therefore belongs to the same Egyptian Pantheon as Sutekh. This would explain how she knows Sutekh is returning, but without her having to be a Harbinger. The whole exchange with Cherry Sunday*, which seems deliberately scripted to be sinister but also ambiguous, then makes sense as to how/why she suddenly changed demeanour and accent. So, my theory is she is the Goddess Anuket, (also known as Anket) who was the granddaughter of Horus (as in The Eye Of), the nephew of Sutekh. In the Egyptian Pantheon she was the personification of the Nile as “Nourisher of the Fields”. Every year, due to heavy rains to the south of Egypt, the Nile floods the plains either side of it, which are used for growing crops. So that’s where Flood comes from. She was also the goddess of the hunt (which seems apt), and was worshipped as a protective deity during CHILDBIRTH. Living so closely to the Sunday family and her saying “I’ve been very careful” then makes sense, as she was watching over Ruby but hiding in plain sight. It also makes sense as to why she recognised the TARDIS, as she is of extraterrestrial origin. * Sorry, but bad pun time. I wonder if Cherry has a sister-in-law called Knicker-Blocker Sunday…? Sundae is a corruption of the original name of the ice-cream treat created by a Mr Sonntag, the German name for Sunday. Amun-Ra, the father of Sutekh in Egyptian mythology, is the Sun God. And Carla is the female version of the Germanic name Karl which means “Strong”. So Carla is the “Strong of Amun Ra”. And talking of Cherry, why have shades of Red, as in Mel & Donna’s hair, Rose and Ruby (“Two kinds of red.”) been a theme throughout the Specials & Series 1?

[@TheAwmoody]

Well That's Alright Then!😂 Great theory.

[@anniesharp4871]

Great theory. I was thinking about the shades of red too. Another name for Sutekh is "The Red God."

[@tjet34]

Amazing

[@InfiniteChances]

I’m fairly confident that Carole Ann Ford will return as Susan, even if for just one episode. I could see something like Mrs. Flood and a fob watch or something like that.

[@philmatin]

I've got a strong feeling she will return. It would be a shame for them to build up to it and not go there. But I dont think it's Mrs Flood. I doubt we'll get all the answers to her character next week. She has a bigger role to play and I think she will be kept mostly a mystery.

[@B-MC]

I'm 100% certain as they brought back most of the companions for that circle in Power Of The Doctor and the guy who played Ian has since died so I can see RTD looking at the sequel trilogy and saying "if we're ever going to bring Susan back we need to do it now." Having then mentioned her twice, it would be the most bizarre missed opportunity if they didn't.

[@Zestieee]

I think at this point is more than confirmed. You can't just do all this buildup and having it lead to nothing. But maybe her return is going to be more important than we think, it could be the entire plot for next season.

[@philmatin]

@@Zestieeeagreed. I dont like it when shows tease you with something but don't go there. I can see them wrapping up Ruby's story next week and the Doctor finding Susan towards the end leading into the Christmas special. She was on set for the 60th anniversary specials so it makes sense for them to use her.

[@B-MC]

@@philmatin For simplicities sake I feel like Susan has to be Ruby's mum. Its a 2-for-1 reveal that would conclude both plots. Anyone else would be like "and then random lady shows up and saves the day. And also, even though the story is over now, here is also susan." and I just feel like thats guaranteed to be disappointing if Susan doesn't ... matter to the story after all of this.

[@ndwells]

In the Giggle, the 15th Doctor duplicated the Tardis. Most likely, either Sutekh got duplicated too or Sutekh left part of him on the 14th Doctor’s Tardis.

[@paulwoods7683]

Is Ruby's 'mum' really pointing at the Doctor? I think she is pointing at the other TARDIS, the memory of a TARDIS, the memory TARDIS..... she is trying to help them.

[@YTAgnesAnne]

Could the hooded figure be pointing at Sutek, warning the Doctor?

[@KristianByatt-cw3ce]

Yes agreed, either the Tardis with sutek or Sutlek itself

[@soundgal_sine_qua_non]

6:02 - I love that you can identify the moment that Ellie makes the River Song connection as Sean's talking about Horus lol. In her defense, it's a great book, and any excuse to connect the story to River is welcome in my house.

[@ianmoore4832]

Love your videos. Thinking about the minisode - he was regenerating so thought it was like the Christmas Invasion. Like the Sutekh theory of affecting the TARDIS.

[@kae-linne.verchrogkirrke6726]

Ellie Littlechild, Sean Ferrick. If I may put forth a theory based on a teaser from RTD that states, " Far away on a distant planet a kind woman is waiting with something absolutely vital." What if that woman on that distant planet was indeed Ruby's birth mother. What may be vital is what or who Ruby truly is. Having knowledge of Sutehk's reemergence in the universe she purposely left Ruby as an infant. to 1 either save Ruby from Sutehk's grasp because she fears what he'd could/ would with her. 2 Ruby is somehow connected 2 " the oldest one" who might be either Horus or Osiris, Gods of light & renewal, and she may hold the key to imprisoning Ol' Sutehk for a few billion more years. Side note Sutekh is seen surround by black ash & Ruby is seen surround by white snow. Light & Dark. Good & Bad, Divine & Evil.🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

[@NewtonDKC]

As for who’s in the TARDIS in the pic at the end, that’s def Harbinger. And remember, Sutekh was able,to project his image/essence into the TARDIS at the beginning of Pyramids of Mars (the Doctor even comments on his unlimited power to be able to achieve such). And he maintains mental control of the Doctor inside the TARDIS to pilot it to Mars to break the Eye of Horus to set Sutekh free. So he not only can mentally control a TimeLord, he can maintain that mental control inside the TARDIS and thru a trip thru the vortex to another planet! So yeah, he’s a scary powerful being. I too worry RTD is going to just reset time given so much of this season appeared in his previous 4 seasons of Doctor Who. And that brief scene of monk Doctor walking in what I assume is a destroyed earth, but possibly he travels to the home world of the Osirans? If it’s a destroyed earth then probably a reset and I will officially be panicked that RTD is out of ideas if that’s how he resolves this. Would love it if Ruby is River and the Doc’s baby and Susan will be Ruby’s baby thus bringing the discussion with Kate about the timey±wimeyness of having grandchildren before a child conversation!

[@R.senals_Arsenal]

What if Sutekh was in the Flux, and has been with the TARDIS since even then? Explains all the weird landings. "All this time, he whispered and delighted and seduced, and the vessel did obey" - I assumed Susan Triad was this vessel at first, but what if it is more literal. What if it was the TARDIS itself.

[@dalekman9999]

That's what I'd assumed since he was described as being woven into the fabric of the TARDIS or along those lines. It was taking the doctor where he wanted to go

[@Zestieee]

I always understood the vessel as being the Tardis. Also because in the dubbing in other languages it's meant in the sense of a ship, which the Tardis is. It's most probable that Sutekh has corrupted the Tardis to a degree.

[@lorrainesheridan496]

And the Doctor who has been a complete wimp. Mel can see this

[@R.senals_Arsenal]

@@lorrainesheridan496 Okay, I thought when my comments went missing they just vanished, but your post here, replying to somebody not here, about a totally different sounding topic, I'm gonna guess KZbin is completely screwing up and throwing comments in wrong places now. Lovely.

[@R.senals_Arsenal]

@@Zestieee Ah the dubbing. Ok. I just expect supernatural stuff to refer to people as vessels, containers of essence before I thought about actual ships.

[@ugolomb]

Regarding the two mystery women: Mrs Flood: I'm not sure she's evil. Her words "He waits no more", and even her delivery of those words, could be interpreted as coming from a Sutekh acolyte -- or it could be a warning, a sense of foreboding, from someone who had anticipated Sutekh's return and is *not* happy about it. She could end up helping Sutekh -- or she could end up helping the Doctor defeat him. (The latter option doesn't actually rule out the possibility that she's a villain -- I can easily see even a villain thinking that Sutekh must be stopped) Susan Triad: I rather hope she'll end up recovering her humanity when it's all over. I don't think it's very likely, but I do hope so

[@occheermommy]

But Mrs flood was mean to Cherry Sunday.

[@Happymama12]

@@occheermommyshe just said we all want things that aren’t going to happen. Which sounds like she’s being mean but maybe it’s because she has more important things to do than fix a cup of tea. I didn’t catch the sense that she was evil initially. I feel the same way that maybe what she said wasn’t really that evil. Plus she is kinda funny so I want to like her character. AND she seemed genuinely concerned about the doctor at the end of church on Ruby road, it almost seemed like she was reminiscing in some way. Idk I just don’t want her to be evil lol

[@AsuraNull]

She wasn't being mean, she was being honest and cold. The world was ending very soon. She was warning her. Mrs flood herself was scared ​@@occheermommy

[@mistknights4675]

I've watched that window scene over and over and honestly, I don't think she sounds menacing at all, just my opinion, but honestly, to me she sounds scared...I'm still kind of convinced that Mrs Flood is Susan

[@saenz7947]

@@Happymama12 Yes, she had more important things to do, if she went to make the tea then she would come back and the cameras would be long gone and she wouldn't be able to break the 4th wall.

[@LenHazell]

Speaking of splintering someone through time the first time I can recall that was in the story "City of death" 1979 when the Count Scarlioni is actually a Jagaroth who was scattered throughout time in the history of the earth, by the same explosion that kick started life on the planet. City of death? Empire of Death?

[@golden_gloo]

I mean the Doctor has known Colonel Ibrahim for quite a while, an indefinite amount of time passes between 15 going off in the Giggle and CORR and then 6-7 months passes between that and the Devil's Chord. You can then assume the rest of season 1 is a good few months. That's not even counting the stuff 15 experienced as 14 when he was doing therapy in reverse, if Rose and Donna are both working at Unit, 14's definitely having some connection to it and probably would see Ibrahim quite frequently. Definitely not conveyed on screen though but so wasn't the Doctor's and Ruby's much either.

[@BadBadAngel3]

Perhaps the hooded figure is Jenny (the Doctor's Daughter). Which would make Ruby the Doctor's granddaughter!

[@scottn2046]

The Doctor said he had a Granddaughter, but the daughter/son was in the future. Wobbly wobbly timey wimpy. I think that's not necessarily setting up the return of Susan, but setting up the Doctor's child who will be Susan's parent. One option is Jenny, but what if it's River Song. What if Ruby is the Doctor's daughter, by River, and also Susan's mum?

​​​@@scottn2046unlikely, since the doctor and river "consummated" their marriage only in darillium, after which river set off to her final adventure in the library, and twelve clearly didn't come out of darillium holding a baby 😝 besides, even if the child was born some time in darillium and then left after becoming an adult, in that case the issue wouldn't be a matter of "future""for 15, and possibly wouldn't have made that remark. I like the idea, though; anything involving river is alright by me 😁 Bonus: there was a chance for river to be involved with 14, and not creating a contradiction with her album containing 12 photos in "the husbands of river song", since she could have interacted with 14 and mistook him for 10 some time in her past, but according to the prevalent opinion that David Tennant will no longer be in doctor who, that ship seems to have sailed 😔 never say never, though; stranger things have happened 😁

[@scottn2046]

Well we know a night in Darillium lasts 24 years so there's room for a lot to happen. Plus how long passes for River between Darillium and the Library? So if she gave birth after Darillium, the Doctor can not know, but she's "picked up" from the Doctor that something bad is about to happen to her and so she places the newborn somewhere she knows the Doctor will eventually find her. A bigger problem is Ruby's DNA reading as "100% human" but maybe that's pocket watch fungible too.

[@writeonshell]

I like the 14 reference, and it makes extra sense of why she recognized the face instantly but also her comment that she's never seen him look so young. Whether that becomes cannon or not is questionable but it's a fun headcannon.

@@scottn2046 river makes it painfully obvious in the husbands of river song that darillium and library were consequent, add to that the seeming reluctance of RTD (and even Moffat seemed so finished with river, that season 10 and the previous special were full of river references, and how she wasn't coming back, ever...), so I see it unlikely for river to even appear in person, let alone be in a key role such as Susan's grandmother... Again, nothing is impossible, so I'm not ruling it out completely, who knows, maybe we'll see her in a multi doctor adventure, along with Matt Smith (who seems eager, at least open, to come back), and in that scenario, David Tennant as 10 and/or 14 will be the icing on the cake 😁 don't hold your breath, though 😜

[@mizzlchieizzl]

Hey all! Good news for US viewers. Tubi has a channel/playlist dedicated to the 4th doctor! It picks up right at his first episode. Free with commercials : ) Far easier to watch what you wish instead of waiting for the FreeVee doctor who channel to rotate around.

[@AnnanyaGeorge]

Dudes. I'm calling it right now. Ruby set herself down on Ruby road. The shoes of the hooded figure were identical to Ruby's in the time window Ruby got Amy Ponded.

[@mummaleto]

Yes I wondered that as well. But then I thought… when Rose made contact with baby Rose in Father’s Day, it caused issues/ paradox. So, maybe not?

[@swirling_sunbeams]

@@mummaleto I think the paradox lore after the episode 'Father's Day' has been broken many times after. I can't think of an exact example right now but I remember thinking about this a couple of times after that ep.

[@bbarr2]

My ranking so far would be this: 1. 73 Yards 2. The Legend of Ruby Sunday 3. Boom 4. Rogue 5. The Church on Ruby Road 6. Dot and Bubble 7. The Devil's Chord 8. Space Babies

[@MrMetallix]

That’s pretty close to my ranking too… though I might would put 73 yards at second or third

[@samdavies-i1n]

Id have it last...I rlly didn't like 73 yards, if actually have The Devils Chord a lot higher maybe 2nd to legend of ruby

[@WhoCulture]

Poor Space Babies

[@samdavies-i1n]

@@WhoCulture it's just so weird 🥲

[@bbarr2]

@@WhoCulture I'm sorry! 😭

[@MableM1985]

RTD recommended some episodes in advance of the series finale. In looking at the list, they all contain situations of technology taking over or controlling people: Spearhead from Space Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways The Bells of Saint John A Good Man Goes to War The Church on Ruby Road So that might be where Susan Triad fits in- the tech she is sharing with the world is Sutekh’s toehold to turning the universe to dust. As for Sutekh being wrapped around the Tardis, that sound started in Wild Blue Yonder, which is at the edge of the universe next to the Void where Sutekh had been imprisoned. Perhaps that is when he was able to take over the Tardis. And perhaps when The Doctor used salt it released Sutekh.

[@Paul_Ernst]

so there's still a few obvious checkov's guns still to go off. In an earlier episode, 15 was scanning Ruby's DNA (she was human), but Devina McCall and the Ambulance both found no record of next of kin. Now UNIT were scanning Triad's DNA (she was human!). These wouldn't be included unless they will come to be relevant. I'm thinking it all has something to do with Mavity. In WBY the opening scene made no sense and was criticised for being a silly distraction, but I have a sneaky feeling that everything that is happening now is traced back to that moment. Sutekh destroys the world, but what about the world where gravity is still gravity?? They have already hinted that this whole season is an alternative timeline.

[@RaggedyDoctor11]

Yeah Mavity split the timeline and allowed Sutekh to return. Like how stepping on the cotton circle split the timeline and vanished the Doctor

[@Happymama12]

@@RaggedyDoctor11 yea I agree, first of all the tardis was red inside in that scene in wby, which as far as I know has pretty much always indicated a paradox. And then when it came back after it took off the light was shining red and being weird. Idk if it’s necessarily ALL to do with mavity or if that is more a “symptom” of the general cause of things going wild. I think the things that happened in wby is going to be more important than what it seems. Even more than just him pouring salt at the end of the universe.

[@Happymama12]

I also have wondered if they are traveling between two timelines, like maybe they’re not ALWAYS in the alternate universe (if that’s what’s going on) because of the inconsistency of how the tardis is flying

[@JoeDobisz]

Really random but ellies hair is killing it ATM! On the topic of TARDIS materialisation, one could be shielding around unit HQ, the second could be because the doctor is literally just across London so wouldn't want to waste time dematerialising and rematerialising Also "ruby's mother" I think is river song, I say this because of the throwaway comment the doctor made about not having a child yet, hence when maestro looked at her song he got scared, as it was the song of the doctor and river, a song woven through time itself

[@Deliverance253]

I still think Ruby could be the physical manifestion of the christmas specials themselves, it would be a similar thing to the other gods being manifestions of music, play, and death. Thats why she has the Christmas song in her "soul" in devil's cord.

[@sophitsa79]

That's cute

[@JasonReed-lz8sz]

So my theory for the finale: Tennant returns as the 14th and dies defeating Sutekh. He does not regenerate! He actually dies. But he also has a TARDIS, and Ncuti’s TARDIS is “infected” with/by Sutekh and doesn’t survive the episode either. This neatly wraps up the events started in The Giggle and offers a “clean” start for series 2 Just my thoughts…

[@gurulimbo]

Susan Twist is the first face we see in Wild Blue Yonder. She will continue to be present in some way.

[@DonStevic]

What I really want to know about the legend of Ruby Sunday is who Kate and Morris were talking about at the start of the episode when Morris said "Don't worry we'll get them"

[@R.senals_Arsenal]

Sutekh is in the jukebox and Harbinger is playing Organ music while mucking with the console.

[@MalcolmStrick]

So he was there with both doctors? That's the thing that confuses me.

[@Zestieee]

​@@MalcolmStrickThat is still unclear because we first heard the Tardis growling when there still was only one Tardis. (Wild Blue Yonder) I just hope that doesn't mean we're somehow getting two Sutekhs. Although who knows, maybe that'd be cool. Maybe they'd want to annihilate each other

[@klaxoncow]

Plot twist: Davina McCall was Ruby's mum all along! Everyone in the show saying she's so nice in person, but little do they know that she borrowed the "Traitors" robe off her mate Claudia Winkleman and abandoned her baby, Ruby, at the church to go pursue her high-flying TV career.

[@shawnholbrook7278]

I'm still hoping that Mrs. Flood is a Fey, Fairy, scary Godmother. and that Ruby is a changeling.

[@thesagebrushkid1]

Yknow what, I like the TARDIS crashing about the place! So we know that there’s meant to be what, 6 people piloting the TARDIS? You see inside when they’re flying, the doctor’s getting thrown about massively! Also it’s an old model TARDIS, the chameleon circuit is broken along with who knows what else… it makes sense to me that it crash lands every so often! Also it looks cool :)

[@rodneyadler9118]

Ya know, I would be worried about working at UNIT. They were smart enough to pick up on the anagrams of Susan Triad etc, but totally looked over "Harriet Arbinger" who was hired and then promoted into a fairly important on the "bridge team".

[@apoloartemis9038]

UNIT doesn't know about Maestro

[@FlynnTheRedhead]

@@apoloartemis9038Still, Arbinger is not a surname, they really didn’t ask her about it or realize something was weird? That’s like hiring Edward Nigma, or Malcolm Ystery lol

[@Games18430]

@@FlynnTheRedheador Desmond Tiny

[@lunasage.limusic]

@@FlynnTheRedheadarbinger is an actual surname

[@m5msm]

IT support dropped the ball on this when they created her login harbinger001 and not flag it to management!

[@TheSovietMachine]

The reason the Doctor knows everyone at UNIT is Fourteen knew them, so Fifteen has got his memories of their experiences

[@Sylver_Sea]

Donna spilt TARDIS on the console 😂😂

[@WhoCulture]

Yes... totally meant to say that... nothing to see here.

[@edwardling9614]

​@@WhoCulture there is one problem with your wierd tardis landing theory when the doctor lands in Ruby's House at the end of space babies it lands normally which would be after sutech attaches to it

[@TheValeyard1430]

@@edwardling9614 that could have been a more smoother landing as the Dog-Bat beast wrapped around the TARDIS could have easily not been trying to breach the TARDIS until now, basically, what i mean is, the creature around the TARDIS chose to only cause those noses in wild blue yonder, the devil's chord, rogue and now the legend of ruby sunday, meaning it must have waited for the time to try anything, first the edge of the universe, close enough to the void, for Sutekh to latch onto and start his inevitable return, causing the strain on the TARDIS while dealing with other God type figures,

[@judithstrachan9399]

I heard that, too.

[@MrWayneJP]

I still think the current series is a show within the show (I've been saying this since the 1st trailer for the 60th specials). This is a series created by an alien species to either celebrate or punish the Doctor. It's all a Truman Show scenario. The use of the VHS time window is a great metaphor for that., too. And RTD will use this to present a commentary on toxic fandoms - why wouldn't he want to, given the culture war???

[@MableM1985]

I only just noticed on your freeze screen on Ruby’s mother that she isn’t wearing gloves in the Time Window. However, in The Church on Ruby Road, she was wearing gloves.

[@BruhsCookieJar]

In the time window you can’t see her face but in the trailer for the next episode, you can see her face fuzzily.

[@alexanderdenton4675]

I've missed a lot of the TARDIS scenes, deciding where to go, and then walking out not knowing where they are. The scenes we've had show the Time roter one for 1 second and that's it.

[@Shadow43Fox]

Did anyone else notice that the harbinger actually shed a tear before transforming?

[@mistknights4675]

"Private Eye, Melody Malone, is hired to find a stolen ruby, the Eye of Horus. The ruby might hold the secret to the location of Cleopatra's tomb - but everyone who comes into contact with it dies." Coincidence that the book is also called "The RUBYS CURSE"...?? Still kinda think Mrs Flood could be Susan. When she says "He waits no more" she didn't come off as menacing to me, she sounded scared

[@alistairetheblu]

If Susan's still on Earth she'd definitely notice someone going by "S Triad tech", so maybe she arrives on the scene independently in the next episode to save the day? Really hoping for that.

[@ArticAnomaly]

Susan has a line where she says 'Did you think I was family?' I think that Sudan was set up as a lure for the doctor and to inflict emotional harm by making him think it's Susan. I really hope there's more to it than that but that seems to be where it's heading

[@geordiekimbo2]

I was so happy I predicted Sutekh, going by the sounds the TARDIS made in this series. I'd recently watched Pyramids of Mars so remembered stuff. That was a very good episode. I love the sound design... I turned the bass up, and it was a treat.

[@nancyjay790]

Gabriel Wolf with the bass turned up... Sounds like what people used to do with Barry White songs.

[@geordiekimbo2]

@nancyjay790 yeah... no wait that should be YEEEAAAHHH BAAABBBYYY

[@_DodgerTV]

with the science advisors thing, it isnt outside of the realm of UNIT just has multiple employed

[@cgrohs1]

Russell said Shirley will be back, she was busy on another project for these 2 episode.

[@osric0]

I think Sutekh entered the conversation very early. The Maestro episode has a moment from Pyramids of Mars too, where the Doctor shows his companion, what life is like in her home timeline, if they don't fix the problem.

[@sarahjane1975]

Just a thought: Unit is sheilded against the Tardis materialization, so the Doctor had to materialize first and then fly her in, allowing Unit to detect them and open the doors. Just an idea

[@occheermommy]

That’s a good theory. I like it

[@geoffroi-le-Hook]

Didn't it materialise inside after returning from the Toymaker's shop?

[@sarahjane1975]

@@geoffroi-le-Hook Sure but there's no reason why they wouldn't change their protocols. Sometimes I get the impression that they only just barely tolerate the Doctor

​@@sarahjane1975after the death of colonel (whoever), Kate's look gave me the impression that she hated the doctor outright...

[@handofsutekh8115]

Glad you noticed that too, very subtle expression, good acting by Gemma Redgrave

[@BadWolfBricks]

Random thought but wouldn’t it be crazy if Sutekh has been attached the tardis ever since pyramid of Mars. And after all these years, it’s finally taken a toll on her. I know it creates potholes such as house or Idris not mentioning it but it is something interesting to think about.

[@joshmakinson6877]

Has no one realised that, when they’re chanting ‘Susan’s name’, in between 5:43 and 5:55 (in The Legend of Ruby Sunday) if you really listen… You can hear Susan and Sutekh at the same time..??! (Just close your eyes and think of both names whilst you watch it…)

[@nancyjay790]

Although you could see that as playing with Susan Triad and Sutekh.

[@kmoorman2008]

I posted exactly the same (but I can't find it now!). Spot on Josh.

[@Saint_Dan132]

how amazing would Elisabeth sladen be reprising the role, god rest her soul she would have loved this x

[@MrCuddy2977]

Anything that involves Yasmin Finey talking is a good thing: the woman has a beautiful speaking voice!

[@Doodler-JL]

14's TARDIS made that moaning sound when he and Donna went to the end of the universe together, then later the TARDIS was split when 15 came along. 15 discovered that the moaning from the TARDIS was actually SUTEKH. Is half of SUTEKH still wrapped around 14's TARDIS and if that is so, does that mean SUTEKH is only half as powerful as he was when he encountered Doctor number 4?

[@IA-qs9mi]

It would be interesting if rubys mum is 13. Heres some of the reasons why it may be plausible: 1. They genetically look similar enough 2. Her mum is wearing similar clothing to 13 3. The mum points towards the doctor in e7, confusing 15. “Why was she pointing at me?”. Kate also asks “Does she know who you are?”. I feel like the emphasis surrounding these questions would indicate that the mother isn’t just a random woman but is someone who has some sort of connection to the doctor. This leaves a couple theories open, some have said Rose, River or Ruby herself but for the purpose of this theory, also 13. What if the mother is pointing at the doctor almost to try and say “YOU, YOURE HER MOTHER” 4. After UNIT do some further analysation, they figure out that the tardis re-appears 20m north of where 15’s appeared. Correct me if Im wrong but, would that not be the direction her mother was headed off to? It would make sense for the tardis to appear only after 15 disappears to not reveal her identity. They also mention that sutekh was attached to this tardis. What if, after the events of the flux, and the destruction of the multiverse, sutekh managed to latch onto the tardis. Others have said that sutekh latched onto the tardis in wild blue yonder and/or things were released from evoking superstition at the edge of the universe, but iirc, the tardis had been making the noises at the start of the episode anyways. Perhaps, since WBY is only 2 episodes following the culmination of the flux then maybe the tardis had already had sutekh latched onto it. I mean how else would the tardis be there for a second time, unless another doctor had been there with it. It would maybe explain why 15s memory is so disjointed of that night. Something to do with 13 supressing her own memories, something to do with regeneration, something to do with them both being present at the same time, which messes the memories? 5. In boom, i believe there was a scene when ruby was dying about her “next of kin”. What if the machine was unable to locate her mother because of 13’s regeneration. All of her mother’s cells have been changed therefore the ambulance was unable to trace 13. 6. (Weaker evidence)There was mention of the implausibility of having a granddaughter before a child. This implies time manipulation. In all honesty, if there is no actual tying into granddaughter susans storyline, then the use of the character would be quite unnecessary. Replace susan triad with sue triad and you actually get closer to a real anagram for sutekh and you avoid a kind of unnecessary misdirect. Obviously parenthood is a big theme this season but if there actually is no pay off for the doctor here then there would be no sense in relating ruby and the doctors stories together, like they have done all season. It could be that ruby is the doctors daughter and susan is ruby’s daughter. Susan is not born yet. When she is born she will travel the world with the first doctor is some way with a bit of retconning. 7. “What is so special about her” was questioned by 15 in e7, well if she is the doctor then question answered. For this theory to work, it would have to be following the flux. There was a bit of time following the flux and 13’s regeneration but not sure when she would have gotten pregnant. Secondly not sure what the reasoning or significance of 24/12/04 would be. Thoughts?

[@kineticnotion]

Not gonna lie, that would be insane 😅 but if anyone can do insane, it’s Doctor Who

[@WRSomsky]

I kinda get the feeling Susan Triad has to have her own existence that got somehow sucked-in/overwhelmed by Sutekh. I don't see Sutekh being able to create/totally-control a being who would would come across as, as Mel discovered and reported by Kate, "really nice".

[@Jimmy_Jones]

In the Impossible Planet, the Tardis also makes a noise on landing there. The Doctor calls it indigestion. Didn't he say that this season?

[@LuxieDamned]

Yes, when the Doctor is on the Tardis with Rogue, the Tardis makes that noise and the Doctor says is indigestion

[@scottiedesigns5205]

Didn't Rose and Donna retain the information they gained from the metacrisis? That would make her essential UNITs eyes I think

[@scottiedesigns5205]

I also have a theory that he connected to the TARDIS at Ruby Road, based on the fact we see the TARDIS land normally there. Maybe the reason he managed to get free was based on a paradox that was created with the time window, allowing him to get back into that reality.

[@ThevegGrowerpodcast]

Susan triad 60 years old (born in 1963) and her mum was a tea lady. Could it be that the tea lady we saw Susan twist play in the devils chord is Susan triads mum? Also could mrs flood be rani after all rani is anagnag ram of rain?

[@z-nyxkibishidesu5380]

I really loved this episode but the only thing I didn’t like was when Kate was talking to the Doctor and was saying that she thought the Doctor brought joy. I’m not disagreeing with her, I think she’s right but as soon as that happened I immediately thought ‘Someone is going to die and she’s going to blame the Doctor for it.’ and wouldn’t you know that’s exactly what happened. I’v seen that so many times recently that it just kinda took me out of the moment when it happened.

[@francisco_m7849]

😮 oh my gosh, what if the tardis groaning was not actually sutekh but in the fact, it was the tardis itself, trying to warn that he is attached to the tardis

[@pattyoc01]

Sutek mentioned all the prior baddies, toy maker etc... my theory, is when they split the Tardis when the doctor split into two, the tardis was weak then, and somehow attached itself after that. Also, isn't the tardis usually weak after a doctor regenerates? Matt Smiths tardis went all haywire, Jodi's tardis went all haywire. Which means it's weak when the doctor regenerates.

[@Rubberduckboy123]

I’m pretty sure that Russell did say that there would be no returning NEW who villains.

[@rickets5094]

he did..

[@shemdellashemygd29]

The main ones that always shows up, yes

[@enigmagenesis7341]

Aha... a cunning plan.

[@thesagebrushkid1]

Russel and his misdirection eh :)

[@michaelmcchesney6645]

I had a longshot theory for Ruby's mother after The Church On Ruby Road. My idea was that Ruby was conceived during the Doctor and River's night on Darillium. I thought there was very little chance of that theory being right, but after The Legend Of Ruby Sunday, I think it's got a better chance than I initially thought. First, there was the bit about the Doctor having a granddaughter before having a daughter. That would seem to be foreshadowing the reveal of that daughter. If that's what RTD had in mind, the most likely person for the Doctor to have a child with would be River. Of course, River has never appeared in an episode that wasn't written by Steven Moffat. Isn't it interesting that he is writing the Christmas special? If I am right, then I could see Empire of Death resolving the Sutekh story, but ending on a cliffhanger revealing that Ruby's mother is River. River would then return for the Christmas episode. On a possibly related note, Mrs. Flood definitely appeared to turn into a villain, but what if that is a misdirect? Maybe she really is Susan, and part of the Christmas story will involve Carole Ann Ford returning and regenerating into Mrs. Flood. I still think that theory will most likely be wrong, but I'd like it to be true. If nothing else, maybe they could do an episode next season in which the Doctor and Ruby visit 1950s NYC and run into Ruby's grandparents.

[@422katieleigh]

My question is HOW does the Doctor and Ruby recognize Susan the hiker? Neither of them are supposed to remember that right?

[@thomassmith1452]

AM I THE ONLY ONE THAT IS CURIOUS ABOUT WHAT THE DOCTOR SAW WHEN HE SCANNED RUBY AND WENT "HMMM"??????

[@andygozzo72]

in pyramids, the 'eye of horus' the sutekh controlled scarman zombie destroyed looked like a giant ruby....hmmm....

[@sarahchristine4298]

My hope for Susan Triad is that her goodness saves the day

[@johnpollock6711]

So, some of my thoughts on the episode. 1. I love Pyramids of Mars, I still have my VHS copy. I will be furious if Davies recons Sutekh into a god, Osirans are super powerful but not gods and I already hate the Pantheon and god characters almost as much as I hate the Timeless Child idea. 2. Mrs. Flood has to be related to Doctor Who's past and either River Song or Amy Pond, it's right there in the name Flood, a Pond becomes a River becomes a Flood. 3. My theory: The hooded woman who leaves Ruby as a baby is...Ruby herself. She creates a time loop and a paradox of her own life which explains her abilities and why the Doctor knows instinctively he cannot take Ruby back to that time. Also she points to the TARDIS to try to warn the Doctor but of course the warning fails.

[@LuxieDamned]

I don't think they portrait them as gods, but god-like characters. In the Pyramids of mars is explained they are super powerfull aliens who's lore was taken as gods lore history in ancient Egypt. I wouldn't like them to actually be gods, who can fight a god?

[@dalekman9999]

I'm sure the god stuff is going to be addressed I suspect it's to do with the ending of pyramids of mars, the way the doctor defeated sutekh both utilizing parts of the TARDIS and made to experience thousands of yeatd possibly growing in power waiting

[@enigmagenesis7341]

Well, if RTD says gods now exist and everything is possible, I'm sorry, but even a raging athiest like him hss to admit this would also mean God can exist and the biblical Jesus is also real.

[@dalekman9999]

@@enigmagenesis7341 u do realize sutekh in the doctor who universe was literally the same as the one in egyptian mythology right? and that he also had "the beast" in season 2 with 10. There was an explanation even in old who that some gods in cultures were just aliens. like sutekh. like the beast, which christian mythology took in parts of egyptian mythology.

[@danielpratt237]

I’m torn between a few silly theories that are all based on 4th wall shenanigans like hiring an actress named Susan Twist to literally be a Susan twist. First is a real stretch, that Ruby is granddaughter Susan but a version before regenerating into Susan, and her mother is Jenny, and may or may not be the hooded figure. The second is going back to the first discussions after Church on Ruby Road, that Mrs Flood is River, but not necessary the River we’ve known. The Timeless Child arc really screwed up River having regeneration abilities, so I would not be surprised if her being a child of the Tardis, bigeneration, the duplication of the Tardis, and Sutekh’s corruption of the Tardis has created an evil copy of River called Flood.

[@WhoisPersona]

I was a little shocked to see a giant dog as Sutekth's true form. bit it turns out that is how he's supposed to look.

[@sarahclapp505]

I will.

[@andygozzo72]

there have been several depictions of set/sutekh

[@lucifersdevilishdetails.]

My mate also asked what happened to lulu bell Yes we knew Carla is just a foster mother so easy explain as the baby was just move after six ish months.

[@strodey123]

I do quite like the God of Death had to use a VHS for his plan of all things 😂

[@darrenrichardson6146]

Well, it is a DEAD format :P

[@cleoarbel]

THANK YOU FOR TALKING ABOUT JONATHAN WINNING A TONY!!!!

[@R.senals_Arsenal]

Rogue at #1... Srsly? Did we watch the same story where the Doctor failed his duty of care and left Ruby in danger w/no warning of people being killed for most of the episode, just wastes time flirting, taking his eye off the threat and acting out of character as DTF? Or was your brain overwhelmed by chemistry of actors and callback to childhood desires to smush your action figures together and make them kiss? IDK, Rogue was fun, it was fine, but top of the list? Srsly?

[@paulmathers6059]

Tbf the companion being left in danger happens in most episodes

[@WatchItRalph]

In theory, I like the idea of Ruby just being a regular girl but in practice that would be the very definition of anticlimactic.

[@harveyburton7]

Ever since seeing Ruby's mother, i have believed ruby had been planted by the trickster due to the resemblance of the cloak to the finger point the trickster used to do. Or maybe it's just Claudia winkleman getting ready for the traitors

[@jakesinclair69420]

Or is ruby her own mother?! Same build, sameish height, same boots

[@charg1nmalaz0r51]

@@jakesinclair69420 How does she reproduce, cell division? lmao

[@thesagebrushkid1]

OOOR the hooded figure is Davina McCall! She’s in the church on Ruby Road, ultimate misdirect, oh you thought she was just there as a guest star? NO! She’s messing with Ruby from the start!!!

[@MeNoOther]

Companions of the Doctor always get top billing at Unit. Family members of Companions next, maybe Nice that Unit took care of the old soldier Will. Unit will take care of the Sunday family as well

[@WhitneyAllisonGG]

Mrs. Flood is Ramona the other Time Lord from Baker era

[@jbarnes550]

Mrs Floor is Sarah Jane Smith

[@ragingrhino101]

To play devil's advocate to objections to how the TARDIS is landing: it's really cool, so I don't mind at all

[@SenecaRaine]

I do actually think Mrs. Flood is going to be Susan, with her keeping Gran safe even though the mislead is she's dangerous. I have nothing to go off of besides that it would be great.

[@MrMetallix]

I also wonder if Mrs flood was who dropped ruby at the church and she lived next door to rubys family so that she could watch over her from a distance…

[@philmatin]

I thought the same but after watching it again it's too obvious. She's definitely got a bigger role to play but it looks like another misdirect from RTD. Personally I would love to see Carol Ann Ford return next week. They've been teasing it for a while and she was on set for the 60th so fingers crossed.

[@charg1nmalaz0r51]

Why would she be susan, she messes up the radio when she enters rubys flat, she knows thing she shouldnt, shes wall breaks like the rest of the gods. Shes clearly one of the gods

[@anniesharp4871]

I think Cherry is Susan, and potentially Ruby's real mother in a regenerated form. Mrs Flood is Cherry's companion watching over her.

[@42ndLife]

So, the Eye of Horus was a Ruby. The Ruby of Horus. A Ruby to stop Sutekh. Ruby. Ruby. Ruby. I feel like there's something there. I wounder what Ruby Sunday will have to do with all of this. *wink *wink

[@kayhope9295]

I HAVE A THEORY THAT MS FLOOD IS THE PERSON WHO TOOK THE GOLDEN TOOTH WITH THE MASTER IN IT

[@hermiona1147]

🤔

[@roguequakewitch]

A couple of months ago, Alex Kingston (our queen 👑) mentioned knowing a big secret/spoiler for Doctor Who. Since then she and Christopher Eccleston have teamed up in Big Finish but I don’t think that was what she was talking about - after all she had teamed up with previous incarnations of the Doctor so why would this one be ‘a big secret?’ So then, what is this big secret? Maybe Moffat told her he was returning (they are doing a new show together) but I don’t think that is it either. Her comment was made around December or January, the time we were introduced to Ruby Sunday. Perhaps she was hinting towards knowing the secret of Ruby’s parentage; that Ruby is the daughter of River Song and the Doctor. Here are the facts: Ruby Sunday = RS = River Song Repeated mentions of the Doctor not yet being a parent - meaning possible reveal of a child Susan mentions and Ruby finding her important Coincidences between Ruby and the Doctor - foundlings/maybe abandon, mysterious past, etc Maestro saying ‘hidden song’ for the missing Melody Pond Millie talking to Karen Gillian (possible reach) Parents not in governmental systems - River burned the Doctor during his fake death because of the importance of Time Lord DNA which she and them both have meaning they would attempt to keep their genes out of files Original series started with a granddaughter and new series starts with a daughter Maybe I am going crazy or maybe I just really want River back

[@judithstrachan9399]

And so say all (Most? Many?) of us.

[@crabbitwife5463]

We know Ruby "has a song in her of such power" that frightened the Maestro. Could it be River Song?

[@RaggedyDoctor11]

BRING RIVER BACK

[@jamesnesbit4899]

@sean. Thank you for talking about the Tonys.

[@rosemariebredahl9519]

Ruby makes snow Hell freezes over. Incidental?

[@golden_gloo]

The Church of Ruby Road and when that promotional image was released with the background looking like the time tunnel that Sutekh was trapped in was the first time I saw people discussing Sutekh. The first time I saw people discussing the Sue-Tech anagram was April 29th and by this point I was very aware that this could be a strong possibility.

[@Michelle-cz3kz]

I think Ruby's snow could be a link to River; after all, the only water on Christmas Eve was the snow. River/Melody is also hinted at in The Devil's Chord, when the music teacher makes a redundant distinction between a tune and a melody. In The Legend of Ruby Sunday, the Doctor tells Kate that although he has a granddaughter he doesn't yet have a daughter. So could Ruby be the Doctor's daughter? Could that pointing hooded figure be saying "And what sort of time do you call this?"

[@seanwebb4633]

Ellie..... I don't know how RTD would make this work but i can't get past the name word play between POND, RIVER and FLOOD, then MELODY, SONG and CAROL, Melody Pond, River Song, Carol Flood. As I said, I can't figure out how they would do it??

[@AngelicusImmortus]

Crashing Tardis -> -> River Song pointing out the Tardis makes the noise because the Doc (Matt Smith) “leaves the hand break on” And he says “I like the noise”

[@Aurora_Lightbringer]

New Headcanon: The Tardis crashing doesn't mean a thing and it's actually because The Doctor is just practising his drifting skills.