Doctor Who: The Star Beast Review (Ups & Downs)

Doctor Who is back, but does The Star Beast kick off RTD2 on a high? Here’s Ellie with our review!
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#DoctorWho #60thAnniversary #TheStarBeast #Review

[@edstrenko]

When Silvia says "she called him Doctor" the fear she showed was really what sold it as a dramatic moment vs just a tiny hint

[@alim.9801]

And I didn't realize it until Sylvia said it either, that was great writing imo!!

[@packgrog]

And this is why RTD is a better character writer than Chibnall ever was: he was careful with the emotional build up and had a plan to pay it off.

[@ryanratchford2530]

Loved it. Only problem I had was Donna & Rose "letting go" of the meta crisis. Feels anti-climactic. Like why didn't Donna know to do that in 2008? I would have liked the Doctor Donna to be resolved by them thinking by sharing the metacrisis they would be okay. And at the end of the 3 specials, Donna & Rose started burning up again. The Doctor worried this might happen and so prepared--now had more time which he didn't when it was just Donna. And the Doctor is able to absorb the metacrisis from both of them which kills him, forcing him to regenerate. Solving the problem in a more satsfying way that doesnt deminish the stakes & is a real sacrifice. We know how much the Doctor loves being Tennant (this is his 3rd time) but of course is willing to sacrifice himself for the Noble family. He did it for Wilf. He will do it for Donna and Rose.

[@bevenstarlow]

Me thoughts exactly. I get they had to get donnas memories back but surely they could of done something less lazy than "we are women we can let go of things" when the doctor has literally been a woman for 3 years

[@shep1807]

Agree. That was my biggest problem with the episode

[@EconExistential]

You're male presenting, so you wouldn't get it.

[@John14710]

Also didn’t like how they insinuated men can’t let go of power after forcing gender issues on us the entire time

[@9124Nove]

For all we know, this might be answered in the next two episodes. The scenario was too complexed to be resolved in just one episode.

[@TwoCentReview]

I think that with the Doctor walking around the mill that he had been spotted early on by UNIT and they recognized his face and were like “That’s just the Doc, let him sneak about if he wants to. He’s good.”. This is supported by how Bingham just casually goes up to The Doctor and just instantly knows who he is.

[@rayshiotile9487]

and they probably assumed he was 10 and wanted to avoid giving him spoilers

[@neptuneplaneptune3367]

Agreed, heck I just imagine some soldiers where watching him the hole time and where like "Derrek why is the Doctor sneaking around? I mean he works fore us, he even has a desk!" "Dunno Dave, its the Doctor let him think hes sneakey, and dont remind me of that desk! He asked fore it and now never youses it!"

[@alveolate]

they were too distracted by how 10 looks older for some reason and didn't know how to talk to him without broaching the subject in some insensitive manner

[@samueleveleigh2767]

for me the only real down was the solution of the meta crisis partly for the given reason of it just being a bit "well lets just forget about that inconvenience" but mostly because their reasoning was "we're girls" it just left a bad taste in my mouth that after this whole speech of how the doctor is male female and neither it culminated in effectively a twitter post "guys are shit, deal with it" to me there were just better ways to deal with the whole issue without resorting to low blows, and i know they could have done better because they did earlier in the episode with sylvia wanting to be supportive of her grand daughter.

[@circuitcatorcesobarzo8680]

I think the same, because The Doctor literally was female just one regeneration ago, so the reasoning of "we´re girls" it´s preetty.. meh. It could have been better

[@orionishi6737]

Rose literally said she was something more. 🙄 Yalls fixation is quite telling. Feeling called out eh...

[@circuitcatorcesobarzo8680]

@@orionishi6737 Then maybey the problem it´s that it wasn´t well explained, because you can´t tell me honestly that it didn´t felt odd

[@samueleveleigh2767]

@@circuitcatorcesobarzo8680 especially when it was Donna not Rose who had the "male presenting" line

[@armondtanz]

They'll fix it with the next doctor, they only talk trash to white cis males. those are the woke scriptures.

[@Ryusuta]

The only part I really had a serious problem with was that incredibly sexist line toward the end, saying The Doctor - being male-presenting - was unable to let go of things. Sexism is sexism, no matter who it's directed at. You're not being an ally by demonizing a different group of people. And a friend of mine pointed out that the obvious line SHOULD have been: "Doctor, you've been gone all this time and still haven't learned how to let go." Bam. Perfect line and fits the story they are actually telling much, much better.

[@petergregson9767]

Agreed. The line was written in a way so as to be sexist, when it didn't have to be. Didn't bother me while watching, but I also feel that had it been David's Doctor punching Sylvia there would have been outrage. Just seems to be a skewed view of equality, where one group is built up to the detriment of another. To me equality means erasure of sexism, every group should be equal, and this wasn't that.

[@lukeevans8411]

This is well said! They are always saying equality. When it is feeling more and more like an excuse to tip the scales the other way.

[@bexrex97]

This.

[@Darklydreamingdavid]

One of THe worst line in DW and it’s extra sad because the new Ep was so good

[@serrastark4687]

I sadly have to agree with this. I tried to see it as rah rah girl power, and maybe a sweet homage to the female facing doctor we just had, but ye, sexist is sexist. Good call.

[@scifirocks]

I found it weird that they knew how to get rid of the metacrisis just because they were women, I'm a woman myself and it just felt like a really dated women vs men moment.

[@studyguy.7660]

Yeah I felt that line was so unnecessary

[@MarkusAldawn]

Yeah, there was definitely a better way to handle that- not least of which would have been that they're humans! The metacrisis makes a big deal of the fact that the metacrisis makes humans smarter than time lords, so just say "a human could regard being a time lord as a wonder to experience, rather than how the Doctor does, which is as a burden to be shouldered, and thus Donna and Rose could give it up to save themselves in a way that the Doctor wouldn't even consider." I can't speak to how it feels to hear that line as a woman, but I can as a non-binary person, and it just felt weird. Not only did the moment not really land for me, it felt like the actual wording shot itself in the foot. "Something a male-presenting time lord could never understand" is such a buckwild statement for a _trans character_ to say. Like, that's gender essentialism. That's saying "men will never be able to let go of power simply because they are men. So don't hold out any hope!" For a trans character to view gender in such an essentialist way was honestly kind of distressing, and I'm not even sure how a non-binary character would be meant to view gender like that. I don't like that message and I don't think that's what Davies was going for when he wrote it (and if he did- yeesh). Edit: used the wrong word

[@rcgriffin17]

@@MarkusAldawnyeah imagine a scenario where the doctor said a non binary presenting person could never do this or that, the show would be cancelled. But because it’s man bashing it’s fine, personally idc care but it feels like one treatment for one and a different for another

[@alfie6441]

There were a lot of men vs women stuff in the past but this felt really clunky for some reason probably because of the delivery. I remember a moment when Donna made fun of the doctor for not understanding something despite being so smart and it being because he was a man that he thought about it one way. I don’t remember specifically what it was but it was done much more subtly than they did it in the 60th. For some reason it felt more childish that it did in the past…idk

[@MarkusAldawn]

@@rcgriffin17 obligatory apology for long reply. I'm going to be a bit forward here and make a claim: I think if you view it as a double standard, you probably _do_ care. Humans are quite perceptive to inequity, and it takes pretty sophisticated justifications for people to feel like unfairness is okay. In this case, I think it's absolutely to be expected for you to find this annoying, and I imagine that you probably do. Again, that's my claim and I might be going to far with it, but if not true of you, I think it's certainly true of me (as a not-so-impartial outside observer). If you're a guy and you didn't like the implication that a man would be incapable of giving up power because it's not true, I think that's a totally fair point. It's not true to you (and to be fair, it's not true of most people who aren't like. actual dictators), and you probably feel like that should factor in somewhere. Rhetoric is all well and good, but ideally it should be true, right? And even more basic than that, it shouldn't be actively harmful for people to _believe_ the rhetoric. Sure, it's also important to give the academic answer: which looks a bit like "this isn't true and I don't think this actually does the work the writer thinks it does- in a patriarchal society, the claim that men are incapable of giving up power is not radical and it is not subversive to patriarchy; it forms part of the justification of patriarchy, which is that power will end up in the hands of men naturally, because men are willing to take it. Thus, patriarchy demands that all energy towards change is put towards choosing men who will wield power over people in the least damaging way possible, rather than allowing _people_ to make decisions _for themselves._ A criticism of patriarchy that posits matriarchy is not just a bad criticism of patriarchy, it is doomed to reinforce it." Like, that's important, at least imo. But I think it's also important that such a rhetoric is deeply uncomfortable, partly because it reinforces patriarchy. It says to men, "hey, you got to where you are, not because of a complicated system which privileges you and puts expectations on you and controls everybody's lives. No, you got there because you wanted power more. Stop wanting power so much and maybe society would be better, except that you can't." What is it telling you to do? Be better except you can't? Get out of the way and let women do what they need to do, except you can't? If women are capable of giving up power as an essential trait, but men are incapable as an essential trait, then patriarchy _is_ inevitable, and there's fuckall anybody can do about it, so what are you or I or anybody meant to do about it? If you apply this idea elsewhere, it feels it's almost going so far as to say "we agree with patriarchy defenders that the wage gap happens because women choose worse-paying jobs, but this time we're blaming men for being too career driven, rather than women for not being career driven enough." We know that's not true, we've got the research on it! We know the wage gap persists because companies see equally good work done by men and women and decide to value the women's work less. It's insane to then say "pesky men and their trying too hard," because that's reinforcing the false idea that women _are actually less productive!_ I- ugh. It just sucks dirt. It was clearly one line that they threw in without thinking it through very hard, but it still feels sucky to think about. We've got this episode where the doctor openly admits to loving people, something he couldn't express in his tenth regeneration (and I don't think they say it in all of Nu Who, actually), and something that clearly comes partially from giving his life for Wilf, and partially from just growing as a person through the preceding regenerations, becoming better and capable of more. And then we're suddenly saying "sorry, you have an innate block on your ability to grow and change, due to your presentation of gender." What a wild thing to say. What a wild thing for you to have your _trans character_ say, as well. Truly, I have to believe it was a last-minute decision to add this line, or a placeholder that they didn't get around to fixing. Because if they thought about it and still added it... That sucks even more.

[@bodycounter9386]

Let's see with what kind of solution the writers came up with to the meta crisis of Donna Nobel after having years thinking about this: Ah yes, the "just let it go" thing. Great writing. 10/10. Masterpiece.

[@westhawk7259]

why couldn't she do that when it first happened is all I could think about

[@jingo500]

Keep in mind, I'm Mr Happy! ;)

[@chrissonofpear1384]

I sort of liked the 'non binary' tie in to 'binary binary' etc... But it did feel otherwise, majorly contrived.

[@bodycounter9386]

@@chrissonofpear1384 if the whole "binary non-binary" solution was the logical result of the episodes story... it could have worked. But it was just ham-fisted into the end of the episode without any explanation while degrading the doctor at the same time. This is not how you write a 60th anniversary script of a beloved character.

[@Dracattack]

​@@westhawk7259Donna couldn't because at the time she still had her insecurities. She didn't want to go back to that. Now Rose is there and theres 3 perspectives and it allowed her to realize that she didn't need it

[@GingerPeacenik]

I was raised by a 1960s bra burning feminist, and my great grandmother was a suffragette. I was told from an early age that refusing to hire a qualified man for a job just because he's a man is every bit as sexist and bigoted as refusing to hire a qualified woman because she's a woman. My mother always said "We can't achieve equality by putting others down". A sentiment that's lost on the BBC. (I'm female, by the way).

[@kevinsky86]

People in general have forgotten nuance is a thing and i'm convinced that is at the core of a lot of sociatarial friction these days.

[@lorifintel9784]

Exactly

[@200beluga]

This Woke garbage is really trying to undo the work real old school feminists did. A man is not a woman not matter how hard you whine about it. Woman is not a costume.

[@swordseye2]

I agree. I was so upset that they put that sentiment into this episode. The whole world is suffering from "equality" these days. Everyone gets squashed because someone else's voice is bigger and yet think they are more important than everyone else because of their difference. (autistic female)

[@InuMokuba]

Completely agree. I'm on the left and I roll my eyes at those complaining about gender while in the same breath complain the Doctor is no longer a male only character. I thought 'gender doesn't matter ' guys 🙄. However, the whole crap of them going "Oh you don't get it, well too bad you aren't a woman, then you would. As a man(oh sorry MALE PRESENTING,doesn't make their words less gross) you will NEVER understand letting go of power." Stuff was so ridiculous, forced and just...ew. That's a down for me.

[@annareverie13]

Another thing I liked was how Shaun was written. He’s a good husband, a good dad, he’s not an idiot. The whole trope of the companion’s boyfriend/husband being stupid, comic relief, being shown as a neglectful partner or super jealous and possessive to make the Doctor look even better- it’s incredibly tired and I’m so glad they didn’t do that again!

[@AuroraButterflyx]

The bit he walked in when chaos happened and simply said "Something smells nice" and Sylvia said "Tuna madras" Ignoring meep was priceless. Good character too and cares well

[@ChrisMentzer]

The fact that Shaun stated he was concerned about Donna running off with another man; but not him was great!!

[@vapoet]

@@ChrisMentzer He knows Donna isn't interested in skinny guys. Haha.

[@Insanepie]

what? he was written as a weak man who let his wife walk all over him… she gave away all their money and refused to take his name or let his kid get his name what kind of pathetic man allows that? if he was stronger his son wouldn’t have become his daughter.

[@safiremorningstar]

Couldn't agree with you more.

[@CammieBoi81]

I feel that the TARDIS put the coffee machine there on purpose so that Donna would spill the coffee and force them to where they needed to be.

[@AuroraButterflyx]

Yeah my thoughts exactly. I got a hunch it's the toymaker. But it probably just there to set the plot for one special to another and nothing more.

[@whocaresreallly5886]

11: you didn't take me where i wanted to go Iris/TARDIS: No. But i allways took you where you needed to go

[@stargazostli]

Chekov’s coffee machine

[@earlfrancart5687]

knowing the TARDIS, that could very well be, for a long time it took him where he needed to be, not where he wanted to be

[@Lumibear.]

The way she just suddenly threw it into the open circuitry does rather raise a few eyebrows in a similar fashion to many other unexplained coincidences. Was the puppet master yanking her string?

[@alessandrac7573]

Totally agree about the metacrisis resolution being way too easy. That was my biggest gripe with this. To me the new Tardis is an homage to the first Doctor's Tardis and I love it.

[@Ryusuta]

He found the round things again!

[@immortified]

There were a lot of good things in this episode, and they've been covered pretty well here, but "you couldn't think of X because you're male" is the kind of sexist that would have gotten the show cancelled immediately if the gender was any other one. This episode suffers from a phenomenon that I'm not sure has been named, but it has certainly been observable. When I was young TV and films frequently had a "wise black mentor" figure because people were trying to be inclusive of people with different coloured skin but they were afraid to make them be substantially wrong (certainyl never fail) or even struggle with anything meaningful beyond the most obvious things like their treatment because of their skin colour. Later everyone in film and TV had to have a wise gay friend who was always kind and knew the right thing to say, and similarly never struggled unless it was because they were being mistreated or minsunderstood because of their orientation. Now we have someone in a wheelchair working for UNIT who is always in the right place, always equipped doesn't fangirl about meeting the doctor (because she's apparently better than that) and also is in no way frustrated by the Doctor not cooperating with UNIT (because she's also better than that) where this has pretty much always been the tension dynamic between the Doctor and UNIT. And we have a trans character who inherited the metacrisis and magically can deus ex machina the plot and their only life struggle is "I don't fit in because I'm different" - we also have the recent children in need special where they took away Davros' wheelchair because we can't possibly depict a differently abled person as a bad guy (as if a person in a wheel chair is somehow immune from corruption) I absolutely think that representation is important and good, but there's something unrealistic and false about these chracters who don't need to struggle in their life because the writers are afraid to make them real people. Prior to the revelation that Davros had been given his legs because we can't let wheelies be bad guys I had always understood that Davros had a degenerative condition caused by his attempts to improve the daleks and he loses more of himself as time progresses. I was perfectly happy to see him with legs in his early days, knowing that he had not yet lost them, or his eyes, or whatever else he loses along the way. But the fact that this was an intenional change made with the explicit reasoning tells me that we are going to have a continuing problem of ham-fisted representation attempts where writers are walking on eggshells so as not to offend someone in a minority by showing them as a real person who has real struggles and misght actually give in to selfishness, make a mistake, or actually do something genuinely evil.

[@heavy0119]

I was so shocked it broke my immersion for a bit.

[@zonesquestiloveunderworld]

All the misandrist BS is so unfair to all the little boys watching the show. It's utterly repulsive to have such hateful dialogue in a family show. Boys shouldn't be growing up thinking men are less-than.

[@coypandora0795]

Davros has his legs because he hadn’t lost them yet at that point

[@user-tr3wv7wk4m]

@@coypandora0795 Let me draw your attention to Genesis Of The Daleks, where Davros created the Daleks and had already lost his legs. This isn't 'before', this is retconning a near 50 year established lore

[@Viglin123]

@@coypandora0795 Look up RTDs “reasoning” for retconning him from being handicapped..

[@kingdonut6675]

My favorite joke was the psychic paper calling Tennet a mistress and then he tells it to catch up.

[@kingdonut6675]

So was the wig on the 11th Doctor before he regenerated, the 13th Doctor before she regenerated, or did 14 pull it out of thin air like twelve did with the cup of tea?

[@patriciaviles4033]

@@kingdonut6675 POCKETS!

[@zhoaibraja2992]

​@@kingdonut6675BIGGER ON THE INSIDE

[@ShaneDavisDFTBA]

It worked well later with Rose being deadnamed as well 😂

[@michellemunn7959]

Loved it

[@Digitoxin1]

The "letting go" at the end has several issues. Donna explained that they were able to get rid of the meta crisis because they could just "let it go" because they were women and the doctor wouldn't understand because he was "male presenting". The messaging in this scene was very confusing. Rose is non-binary female presenting, but for this scene, she is just a woman. How about trans people who are male presenting. Would they not understand because they identify as male? Instead of just being a jab at men by saying it was because the doctor was a man, they specifically used the line "male presenting" which seems like a jab at trans men as well. This was all after making the point that the doctor himself was non-binary and could be a man, woman, whatever and wasn't someone who could be defined as one or the other. It seems like a cliché line making fun of men somehow ended up roping in trans men in the process and was directed at the doctor who was literally a woman not too long ago.

[@_Pauper_]

I took it more as a joke than any serious declaration of fact.

[@smash461986]

You could say it was a throwaway line that had absolutely no purpose in being there. The whole episode was like that.

[@ShimPansae]

Just exchange woman with human and it would have worked.

[@ferretleaf]

yeah it really confused me…like the doctor is literally a non binary alien so im not sure why they were trying to make a point to him

[@RayTheomo]

That was the one part of the episode i hated. They couldve just likened it to THE DOCTOR. Not specifically male doctors. The Doctor has always had a hard time letting go. Thats like his whole trauma. If they did that, i could understand how a trans person, who in context has completely shed their original gender and pronouns, could be seen as a good example of letting go. But using that moment to attack him just felt weird, petty, mean, and pointless.

[@dominiclingham4006]

I’m not massively happy with the fact that Donna and Rose were able to just let the doctor part of them go. Like, where does that Doctor energy go? Does it just dissipate? Surely a much better idea would be that they could have used their joint intelligence to extract the ‘Doctor energy’ from Donna and Rose into some sort of container that would then be sent to be filed by U.N.I.T in the black archive, but it got lost/broken on the way, which could pave the way for that energy to take over something/someone and go on to become the Valeyard? Just a thought

[@Reoh0z]

I would like to call attention to something in the space-ship scene. Tenant DW & Wilf are separated by glass and one of them has to die. The last time DW chose to die himself, after delivering the emotionally charged "so much more" speech. This time He (believes) they are consigning Donna to death. Such a tragic parallel.

[@bodycounter9386]

The scene had zero weight to me because there was absolutely no reason for the glass wall in the first place. It was hard forced by the writers to get this exact scene. Good writing means that occurring scenarios feel natural, this was just bad writing.

[@Jaymac44]

@@bodycounter9386 exactly

[@db5094]

​@@bodycounter9386yeah the partition was random lmao

[@thatjeff7550]

@@bodycounter9386 maybe it was done as a "double assent" deal for the drive. In order for it to fire up, two crew members who are separated but can communicate have to flips switches in order to light the drive in order to make sure some nutjob like the Meep doesn't burn a city, but the Meep figured out a way to circumvent the "two-key verification" system put in place.

[@bodycounter9386]

@@thatjeff7550 none of that is explained or mentioned though. The separation by the glass wall just happens without any reasoning. It is not my job as a viewer to come up with explanations, it is the job of the writers. The whole script was extremely lazy. And i don't know why people are just fine with this?

[@BiaginiMatt]

I am non binary, but didn't liked anything about the Dinary/Non Binary... I found it forced and not a good representation... Even more the "you wouldn't understand because now you are a man" For me that is one or two downs

[@brantleydybas5193]

They also kinda ruined rose being trans in any sense. They say she calls herself rose cuz of the meta crisis so does that also mean being trans was caused by it. I mean she literally says she can be herself after letting go of the meta crisis

[@YaBoiJoosh]

Honestly BiaginiMatt I think your comment is important and quite frankly it's something I agree with, I'd honestly say the same for the pronouns thing earlier in the episode, both instances felt forced and just didn't feel natural to listen to. This episode was one I didn't really care for and even after it finished I left with disappointment, with the mention of the pronouns and the nonbinary thing I honestly wanted to stop watching because it felt a bit cringe to me, and as we've both said, it felt forced and it didn't feel like a valid reason for the world being saved or Donna still being alive. There really should've been a more scientific explanation instead of just "my child is nonbinary therefore the world is saved"

[@ITechHero]

@@YaBoiJoosh Glad I'm not the only one that feels this way. What a total let down. Fantastic episode outside of those moments too.

[@DoodleThis]

Yea sorry mate, I don’t think Rose did well to represent anyone. Infact her first remark at the Doctor going “Did you just assume it’s pronouns?” Left a horrible taste in my mouth and made me go “Oh…. You’re one of those people” and after that o just couldn’t stand her

[@gamerboiiiiiii]

FUN FACT, originally donna was making a solution for the chameleon circuut and stopped mid scentance, repeating the word 'binary' over and over, its likely a form of software or a sub system of the TARDIS itself. So thats neat

[@Krishnath.Dragon]

I actually like Meep's hands, they make sense in context of the whole story. The hands "look" evil, which is a sharp contrast with the cuteness of Meep as a whole, hinting that Meep is not all what they seem at first glance. It is also quite brilliant that Meep spent most of the pre-reveal time hiding their hands.

[@ianl1052]

I kept expecting Meep to point up and say "phone home". 😉🤣

[@EasternStandardTim]

I mean, after all the davros stuff, I don’t think they went out of their way to give a character “evil” physical characteristics

[@davidr1424]

It’s the teeth that do it.

[@neilgodwin6531]

​@@ianl1052I kept thinking "don't feed it after midnight, don't get it wet..."

[@prettyoriginalnameprettyor7506]

Meep only goes by the meep

[@OTMisery]

Can someone honestly explain to me how being trans and insulting the Doctor saved everyone?

[@marklotinga]

I think you may have to wait a while for that explanation.....

[@bendream544]

Simple RTD can't write for shit. The big jessy

[@armondtanz]

Just deal with it BIGOT!

[@imalittletoxicjustalittle]

@@marklotinga lmao there will NEVER be a good explanation, the doctor can see all of time at once ffs it was done to push an agenda nothing more

[@Nervar]

You know your a classic example of the inverse ratio of the size of the mouth and the size of the brain

[@pwpresents5660]

I watched this episode with my brother and [SPOILER ALERT] we were both just frustrated with how they resolved the Metacrisis concept at the end. Rose having the meta crisis passed down to her, a cool concept. She could’ve gone forward as an awesome doctor-lite character, the daughter of Doctor Donna, and she could’ve been the solution to saving Donna's life. Instead they basically "wished it away" and it’s just solved. My brother and I had this whole rant after the episode ended about how it just…maybe not ruined, but curtailed the big moment of Donna's sacrifice and "death" and it all just screams like a wasted opportunity. Also, "beware of scale" came to mind when the gates of hell opened across London, and then just closed themselves up again as another resolution. Like, it’s hard to give a story stakes when everything just reverts back so there’s no lasting effects to contend with. Which I realize is doctor who in a nutshell these days. I’m still pissed about the Flux and how little impact a cosmic maelstrom like that had on the wider universe.

[@db5094]

I agree with you completely. Too many things were "Oh. That's it?". Destruction to London? REVERSE the footage seemed like the plot lmao. End to a series finale arc that stuck with us for years? JUST LET IT GOOO... i can't tell, maybe they are telli g us to let go

[@bodkimalone]

thank you. you encapsulated my thought process perfectly.

[@thatjeff7550]

Yeah, I was overall disappointed with the ending as well for various reasons. I could be wrong but I felt like Disney got their fingerprints all over the show and it stood out to me.

[@nobbyfirefly57]

Yeah, just “letting go” is such a plot thing. A deus ex machina. Sure, there’s only 3 specials or something, but they could’ve figured something out. Then again, I hear that Disney is involved in this now.

[@jayamd3579]

her son*

[@hannahwatermelon]

I was smiling so hard when david was running like a child all around the new tardis, the design is SO COOL and I love it so much, and having him showcase it all by running around was probably the best decision they could have made

[@alim.9801]

And the new design is amazing for paying homage to the original TARDIS design!!! I love it :)

[@Futura2500]

Yeah that was the best part loved that, worse part the end "presenting as a male timelord you wouldn't understand " awful put down - i believe in equal rights for everyone but not at the put down of a demographic of people

[@irrevenant3]

I'm not entirely sold on the multicoloured lights. They'll probably grow on me, though.

[@lisasutherland2490]

I didn’t like the new tardis design to bright for my taste reminds me of the original series

[@BinroWasRight]

He ran about like a schoolboy and I immediately thought "They didn't show it to you until right now, did they?" It's brilliant!

[@joshuastrawser9160]

It's fascinating to see a younger generation of Who fans embrace the "cheap dodgy CGI" the same way the older generation embraced the "cheap dodgy sets." After 60 years, we can all agree that being (to quote Top Gear) "ambitious but rubbish" is part of the show's charm.

[@nenmaster5218]

Yes, i cringed at saying "Man cant do this but Woman can let goooo" and then expelling Poison with a Whoosh, but c'mon, the Episode was good and felt like Doctor Who. Oh, wait, theres was 3 more scenes and they couldnt just let the trans-girl be a normal girl but had to fudge it all up AND ask all Aliens for Pronouns? oooof

[@armondtanz]

Now its just the woke garbage every1 is focusing on...

[@db5094]

Yeah i rewatched tenants first episode and it was fun to laugh at the cgi of the spinning Christmas tree and the sky shipcgi.

[@thejaysusnetwork6102]

The Doctor's reaction to being told he can always pop by for tea or dinner and a normal friend relationship was something that kind of bothered me. They were both acting like he'd never had that before, but that was a whole thing between him and Amy/Rory, stopping by for Christmas or just to hang out and such. That kind of erasure always bugs me.

[@margaretconnor5623]

No for real, I was waiting for him to admit "I did do that for a bit.....then they died." and then that didn't happen and I'm like...."So we're going to ignore that he did do that and had his hearts broken so he probably doesn't want to again?"

[@thejaysusnetwork6102]

Exactly@@margaretconnor5623

[@rayshiotile9487]

@@margaretconnor5623 hell the doctor did that with clara and the fam. it's so dumb

[@nancykraus5127]

I did question that. He does remember being a woman but his Doctor never did that kind of thing so I can see him being that way. Matt Smith evolved the character to include family friends. That was not something Tennant's DOctor did.

[@munchcat]

Or it could have been something he's missed just that much and thought he wouldn't get again, and that's where the emotion came from. He also has never made it a habit of bringing up previous companions unless current companions directly bring them up, and even then can get evasive at times.

[@elflairgames]

One of the biggest ups for me were the little nods that he is indeed a different Doctor. 1. "I absolutely loved her. Do I say things like that now?" - 13th Doctor 2. Use of the 11th Doctor's theme, and the very 11th Doctor line, "It means...I can do it by hand." 3. "I NAME THIS SHIP THE DELUSIONS OF GRANDEUR!" - 100% a 12th Doctor line. All of those were very deliberate inclusions that were outstanding reminders that he has indeed been three people since the Tenth Doctor.

[@RayTheomo]

ALSO the small joke with the psychic paper "that says Mistress" "oh catch up". Hilarious and subtle😂

[@ShaneDavisDFTBA]

I’ve just realised it’s a quasi-deeper joke, not only because the last episode saw The Doctor regenerate from female to male but they also had the forced regeneration into The Master, who went by Mistress when a woman.

[@RayTheomo]

@@ShaneDavisDFTBA i dont know if it was that connected. I think Missy was only briefly mentioned once as the Mistress. She stuck to Missy. But you could be right. Anyways if Tennant can come back then i pray that Michelle Gomez can come back too because she stole the show every time she was on screen.

[@bobbybobstar1496]

You need to look up the definition of subtle poppet.

[@bobbybobstar1496]

@@ShaneDavisDFTBA it's really not that deep boy

[@petrolhead0387]

​@@RayTheomoI would love to see an interaction between Tennant and Gomez, even if it's only for one scene. She had some fantastic moments with Capaldi, but I can't help feeling like she was meant to have time with Tennant.

[@cartoongame5007]

I think the whole Metacrisis thing "letting go" would have worked so much better if it had been "find someone to share it with, and let go together". That way the emotion of the series 4 ending of the situation is still there, and it makes sense why she couldn't let go until now. Maybe even add the rest of the family and the doctor to the letting go group, Rose and Donna in the middle.

[@katsarelas1947]

It was also weird with the whole “a male coded person would never understand” 1-Uh, rude. 2- The doctor was a woman like, less than 24 hours ago? And may have been several times? Not to mention the doctor has had to let go of…A LOT Including Donna for 15 years until, also, like 24 hours ago. (or a billion with that one 12th doctor ep?) It just seemed like a really weird comment

[@ITechHero]

@katsarelas1947 . I agree. the gender politics, and Woman power stuff was over the top, and felt really forced. and straight up disrespectful to men. But its massively pushed in UK programing, so don't hold your breath it will go anywhere or change for the better. Total vibe killer.

[@ararazul9638]

I think that was the intended message? But it got really muddled by some baffling writing decisions. This needed a script editor to go "Russell, what exactly are you trying to say here?"

[@Surpent759]

​@@katsarelas1947omg, I've been looking for this kind of comment, thank you very much 😂 that moment just destroyed "kind and cozy" vibe for me, almost ruined whole episode. It wants me to feel bad for being a male, as I see it, and it's just messed up and straight "meh" 😢

[@katsarelas1947]

@@ITechHero I mean, I don’t mind it usually. Like they said, Donna’s mum forgetting sometimes was nice. The “oh Donna said binary, but her daughter is non-binary” was dumb but harmless (altho she definitely identifies as female so that’s not exactly non-binary…) But to just throw out a direct “people who identify as male cannot understand___” That’s not even a dig at cis men, but any man. It’s not the worst “well meaning but kinda backwards” thing from modern who (looking at you, “Rosa parks longest lasting legacy is a space rock”) but the rest of the episode was doing fine and then BAM Like, what if the script was reversed, Donna had a daughter that identified as male? “Oh doctor! I know what we have to do but my son- he just CANT grasp it!” “Mum…wot?” “HES INCAPABLE OF LETTING GO DOCTOR, WHAT DO WE DO?!”

[@philmatin]

Seeing David running around the new set screaming "This is amazing" had me smiling from ear to ear. I know there's been some talk of David being overused but I love seeing him back. No disrespect to any actor who followed him but he plays the character so well. After watching this I feel a bit sad we're only getting this for three episodes. As it's been so massively hyped up it would be nice to see him have a full season run with perhaps Donna standing aside and letting the new Rose become the main companion before Nchuti takes over. It feels like David's never been away and I'm looking forward to the next two specials to come.

[@alveolate]

here's hoping that this whole Whoniverse thing pans out with more tennant episodes... it's doctor who man, they could just have random standalone eps featuring 10 and rose or donna whenever

[@philmatin]

@@alveolate It would be lovely to see David back for a full season run but it couldn't be done as a spin off as I fear it would over shadow the main show and Nchuti wouldn't stand a chance. Stand alone episodes maybe. Personally I would love to see a modern day version of "The five doctors" with everyone from Christopher to Jodie returning and interacting with each other. I know that logistically this is unlikely due to certain actors reluctancy to return but it would be so much fun to watch. Perhaps with the Whoniverse something like this could happen one day. Only time will tell.

[@lanapowell]

Casual misandry aside (which Doctor Who has been guilty of for a while), the Nobles letting go of the metacrisis energy felt a bit like Melody Pond (she wasn't quite River Song yet) giving up all her regenerations to heal the Doctor of the "incurable" poison in "Let's Kill Hitler," a seemingly simple solution to an impossible power problem.

[@lanapowell]

on the casual misandry, I give you this exchange from "The Day of The Doctor" between Elizabeth I and Clara: ELIZABETH: These Zygon creatures never even considered that it was me who survived rather than their own commander. The arrogance that typifies their kind. CLARA: Zygons? ELIZABETH: Men.

[@candycover]

@@lanapowell Lets not forget when the time lord went from white male to black female, saying how do you handle so much ego?

[@thecaptainseye]

Well I agree with the casual misandry part but the River Song moment, while contrived, wasn’t “easy” in the way the metacrisis resolution was. River Song sacrificed an enormous amount of energy and basically doomed herself to save the Doctor. It felt like something that cost dearly. Whereas Donna just wished away the problem.

[@candycover]

@@thecaptainseye I wish these guys would call it out.

[@MsChief-bl5iq]

I'd say the misandry is well past casual at this point.

[@TheTomLees]

Here's my problem with the 'letting go' of the Metacrisis ordeal: If it happened within the same series, let's say they resolved it in the End of Time, I'd probably be okay with it because it would have only been about a year between those events happening. But this was a 15 year wait. I was 8 years old when Donna's memory was wiped. I'm now 23 and yesterday I watched her and Rose just brush it off. I feel like if I go back and watch Series 4, there's gonna be a reminder in the back of my mind telling me that all the danger, threat and emotion of the Metacrisis just won't pay off. Edit: also, if you remove that whole bit of Donna remembering the Doctor again and how much they amped it up, it really was just another RTD 'undo button and everyone is saved' story.

[@JoshPinder92]

THIS^^ but now that's resolved it now opens up for another awful resolution in the giggle which I've predicted will happen and it's worrying

[@ethancapps5015]

Unless it does. Davies has ran some of our favorites episodes, so trust the process. We still have 2 more parts. The meta crisis could be much bigger thing

[@JoshPinder92]

@@ethancapps5015 bar midnight turn left gridlock and parting of the ways RTD wasn't responsible for a lot of the best episodes in his own first era ... The series 2 3 and 4 finales all had huge backlash despite popularity and I think those with rise tinted glasses forget that ..I can predict exactly what is going to happen and that saddens me I miss when doctor who was inventive and out there with unique fab stories not paper thin plots

[@cjward_24]

Exactly. Hoping it goes somewhere interesting these next 2 episodes, but I don't think I'll ever be able to watch Journey's End the same way again.

[@someguy9204]

I would agree. When major events like this get resolved, there NEED to be some sort of consequences. The best resolutions in all of fiction tend to be the ones where there are genuine consequences to actions. There's still 2 episodes to go, so maybe we'll see that happening later on, but this was very anticlimactic.

[@ryanratchford2530]

I would have liked the Doctor Donna to be resolved by them thinking by sharing the metacrisis they would be okay. And at the end of the 3 specials, Donna & Rose started burning up again. The Doctor worried this might happen and so prepared--now had more time which he didn't when it was just Donna. And the Doctor is able to absorb the metacrisis from both of them which kills him, forcing him to regenerate. Solving the problem in a more satsfying way that doesnt deminish the stakes & is a real sacrifice. We know how much the Doctor loves being Tennant (this is his 3rd time) but of course is willing to sacrifice himself for the Noble family. He did it for Wilf. He will do it for Donna and Rose.

[@captainsinclair7954]

On one hand, that would be satisfying… but on the other, you’re killing my heart with that thought of the Noble’s always being responsible for The Doctor dying. Let him go out on his own terms this time! 😭

[@ryanratchford2530]

@@captainsinclair7954 haha its okay they are his own terms! As the Doctor said to Wilf before he died, "It is my honour".

[@sgtvulcran255]

Think you need too be hired. cause that is like a million times better then "Hey lets just let it go". Feels like a really fitting way too let him go for the last time as well.

[@jplays4956]

Sounds lot better and more throughout than wot we got and makes sense

[@trainsurfer7593]

I think that would have been excellent.

[@hirudinaria]

A big DOWN was still going so hard on the social messaging. I weep for the future if they're not going to learn from their mistakes and keep the messaging as the major plot device instead of being subtle and funny with it. 😢😢😢😢

[@Diogo85]

What social messaging? Is it about the binary non-binary thing?

[@pimd5478]

@@Diogo85Ofc I can't speak for the writer of the comment but to give my own answer to that: I wasn't rlly thrown off by Rose being trans. I think that RTD is an amazing writer and managed to create some really organic moments around it like Rose's grandma being worried she's not properly understanding her grandchild. To me, the binary non-binary thing makes sense as well because it does make sense for that word to hold a lot of meaning for her, triggering her to remember. My down would be the scene where they can just let it go and a male presenting timelord couldn't understand. It felt like a letdown because as for my knowledge the 10th was the doctor who struggled most letting go, which was proven by his last regeneration. I believe the moment could be incredibly meaningful if it was directly targeted towards him personally instead of the way he presents, guiding him for when he has to say goodbye again, at peace with it this time, as well as laying down some extra groundwork for why his face came back

[@garrethb6261]

I'm sorry but that's a silly thing to be mad about. Doctor Who was never subtle with their messaging. In the very first appearance of the Cyberman in the 60's there was a black astronaut in the episode. I wouldn't call that subtle. And the 2 episodes about the Santarans using poison gas from cars to take over the planet doesn't hide the message of those episodes very well either.

[@Diogo85]

@@garrethb6261 Anti-Woke people don't seem to care about Pre-2000's films and modern and old anime pushing social and political messages whether it's in your face or not but when modem media does it, it's "woke" and "shoving politics down our throats". It's hypocritical if you ask me.

[@garrethb6261]

@@Diogo85 true, I swear either the "anti-woke" crowd is dumb or are just lying to themselves saying that only modern media is politica.

[@davidrgilson]

"Letting go" of the metacrisis was, to quote Deadpool, "lazy writing". Also the the whole binary/non-binary thingy was token gesturism to the max.

[@Diogo85]

What's wrong with the binary/non-binary thing?

[@davidrgilson]

@@Diogo85 Rose's sexuality was not integral to what was happening, it was threaded into the story by simply uttering a few words accompanied by time lord regeneration effects. Felt like a token gesture towards the LGBTQ community.

[@kingmuizz708]

​@@Diogo85it seemed a little "deus ex machina" yknow? It felt like they could have done something good with it but instead they wanted a cheap way to cap off the story rather than handle it with care after all these years. No malice against any NB people, but it was shoe horned in

[@Diogo85]

@@kingmuizz708 I don't think it was but okay.

[@kingmuizz708]

@@Diogo85 fair enough, it's your opinion just as it is mine to say otherwise :)

[@Puff1588]

I don’t know why they made David tennant float in space during the recap. Felt like a bit of a strange start to the episode

[@PeterWhiteheadViola]

​@YungAtz"unnecessary trans stuff"? Elaborate?

[@paulflint6254]

The recap was necessary for new viewers.

[@EpicVon2468]

@@PeterWhiteheadViola‘binary, non-binary’ (the metacrisis), and them literally harassing the doctor and calling him a ‘male presenting time lord’, and implying that if you are male you can’t let go, basically, sexism but performed in a way that was supposed to not offend but also offend

[@Kais-Stuff]

​@@EpicVon2468 2 = binary, 3 = non-binary. The metacrisis was a binary issue (I.E. DoctorDonna), Rose taking a part of it makes it non-binary.

[@Fanney47]

Lol yeah that was weird

[@crabbitwife5463]

The most Doctor Who thing in the episode for me is when they are all in the industrial lift going up and you can tell the lift isn't really moving, it's the camera moving simulating going up with all the actors pretending to be jolted when it moves. That made me smile a lot.

[@Rocksteady72a]

Very "We have Disney money, but we're still Doctor Who" moment 😂

[@friendlyotaku9525]

Yeah they talked about this fact during the in vision commentary, it's pretty funny!

[@duckypresents]

100% agree on the "we will get over it" in regards to the meta crisis, the binary stuff was handled well up to that point, but just having the meta crisis magic away because they are two wonderful women was way too easy.

[@heydocb]

Oh, Ellie, so sweet that you remember your childhood Doctor as 10. I grew up with 4 and 5-when the Doctor played on local PBS stations in the USA. Still, you are so right about that light-hearted aspect of the Doctor. Always welcome.

[@HyperGloss666]

When Donna said "something he would do" I had to pause, rewind, and put subtitles on to make sure that's what she said. That line was such a good reveal that she was starting to remember

[@chriswagg1354]

It's interesting until watching this and reading comments I had taken the he of that sentence as Wilf not The Doctor but now I'm not sure

[@masterkyoogway3565]

Yea I thought she was talking about wilf lol

[@NerdPulseGaming]

Sadly, Bernard passed away on the 22nd of July 2022, but I'm glad that Wilf is alive and well in Doctor Who.

[@Donnagata1409]

The sudden "courtroom in the parking" scene was great. And the "something smells nice" situation was... just perfect. Quintessential Doctor Who!

[@ImSplur]

The sonic shield i thought about heavily because i was thinking wow thats a bit much but after further mental debate i thought, The Doctor is essentially a pacifist, if anyone would take the time to deck out their favorite tool with an ability to stop bullets from flying at them when they are inevitably running away, i suppose it would be the doctor so.

[@cracklingice]

Agreed. I also hate how they dealt with the time lord energy. To say that the Doctor is the Doctor instead of male or female and then to have Donna insult the Doctor by saying 'he couldn't come to the solution as a man' was truly disgusting. They could have gone with a positive message instead of man bashing. The Doctor was recently female. They could have drawn on those experiences to create a narrative of how we all bring something different to the table and we are better when we work together. Instead they chose to stoke the embers of hate.

[@YaBoiJoosh]

I completely agree. It's honestly just gonna put more fans against them and it hasn't given me hope for the new era. RTD was a good writer back in the day but I don't have high hopes

[@vincentsirianni5145]

It’s the leftist propoganda in action. The entire time for the trans character it was all about love and finding ones self and not listening to bullys. Then in the end, the character by going on with the male bashing becomes the very bully. You can’t hav me coexistence in this scenario

[@bryaneberly3588]

it's not leftist. it's bad writing from people who think they understand something, but clearly are just using the words and going through the motions. the second they get a chance to fall back on cliche and trope, they did. struck me as more "we're desperate to be relevant" than "we want to promote a leftist agenda." a progressive leftist agenda would not have missed the entire target like that.@@vincentsirianni5145

[@Dreamersgate]

the male or doctor bashing fits Donna's character. it is part of her personality to insult him.

[@Vim-Wolf]

The down on the opening. Spot on, everything that was in it was mentioned at least once during the episode.

[@samanthamaclean1430]

Me too I was really excited about that new feature that The Doctor can do with the screwdriver

[@mickys8065]

Outside the obvious downs for this episode, as someone who considers Matt Smith as my first Doctor, I was quite disappointed that they were basically acting like nothing happened between 10 leaving Donna, and 14 meeting Donna. Like, the main thing is "Donna was my best friend ever" which just doesn't feel genuine considering we know his history. Don't get me wrong, they were clearly great friends. But the Doctor became a hermit in the clouds for years after he lost Amy and Rory. He was willing to do anything to get Clara back, in both regenerations. He cared enough about Bill he went blind, and cooperated with the enemy threat. Everything about River Song. And to say all of that is seemingly valued less than Donna? But then he spends time with Donna, and acts casual, doesn't even seem hurt that she doesn't know him? The same goes for when Donna invites him to come around whenever he wants, and the Doctor reacts like that's the first time he's heard such a thing, when Clara's final season had the Doctor randomly chilling in her flat most of the time?

[@Brasswatchman]

11:19 Also really liked Sean in this episode. I'm very glad that they brought him back rather than writing him off or saying he's died in the time since or what have you. Not only did they avoid fridging him, they made him a real asset to the episode. A+ all around for that, I'd say.

[@stephenconroy5908]

Doctor: Let me in! Sylvia, with the rage of a thousand suns: *YOU* Me: Run, Doctor, run!

[@AuroraButterflyx]

God she was pissed and the face was priceless 😂❤

[@nairrdlairrd]

I love the way David acknowledges that the Doctor says things like “I love _____” now!! That was a big struggle for his first incarnation, never even telling Rose, but it’s so great to see that growth in the same face that struggled so much with it before!

[@anniesmith5739]

I really appreciate how positive and thorough this review was! Unfortunately I had more downs than ups. I like how inclusive they're trying to be. But there were a few moments that felt very forced and cringey. I thought Sylvia and Donna's first convo covered the pronouns topic in a natural and empathetic way, but they kept riffing on it to the point where it really brought me out of the story. (Seriously, an argument about Meep's prounouns?? Made it feel like a joke in bad taste.) The weird, anti-climatic resolution of the Metacrisis issue. Donna couldn't have 'let it go' before this? Any male-presenting person wouldn't know how to 'let it go'? I don't think anyone was happy about that line, no idea who the writers were trying to appeal to. Cis women, I guess? Very odd choice. But all of the Doctor/Donna interactions made up for it. Moderating my expectations for the next few episodes.

[@judithstrachan9399]

As a CIS woman, I didn’t like it, either. It seemed to me unnecessarily man-bashing & a dismissive generalisation. Who says a man can’t do anything just because he’s a man (or male-presenting)? That’s what it sounded like. All over, though, I thought it was good.

[@alveolate]

yea the general consensus seems to be that the episode was marred by "forced wokeness", or as the yanks call it, virtue signalling. because it really is just that, scoring cheap woke points without any real integration of those offending lines with the story. quite a shame, since everything else looked and felt pretty good.

[@skatez69]

A big down for me was when the ship was disabled, all the damage it had done magically repaired itself. Would have been better if the scars in the ground were left there. I agree about the DoctorDonna resolution being too easy too... if all she had to do was Frozen it (let it go!!), then why on earth didn't she do that in the first place? Oh, and on that topic - it looks like the Doctor and Donna are now telepathically linked - how did that happen? When she was Awoken, she somehow knew everything that had happened to the Doctor in the last 15(?) years....

[@evilbot2099]

thats a problem no one has even addressed, there were literal ruptures in the ground, how did turning off a machine just erase all that lol

[@JacktheRah]

Yeah I didn't get that either. Why would it magically heal? Why not make it a point in the next few episodes that people have to rebuild the damages? It has been done before in Doctor Who so why not again?

[@ironicanimations]

My favorite part of the episode is the Doctor’s new loving personality The moment he explained how Donna was his best friend, best of friend, he absolutely loved her, it made my heart jump because it was the sweetest thing he’s ever said with the Tennant face on, and he’s even shocked “ah- I say things like that now?” And then when he sees the Meep and immediately thinks “wow, he’s so Cute!-“ and then he talks about Wilf if he died, “I loved that man” Like, it’s like this face and personality came back, but with so much more love packed inside and I love it It’s so nice to see 10th’s face on the 14th’s and have so much love and support and silliness to it, after so many years of that face dealing with the Time War and the aliens who want to kill him- I love it, it gave me a huge good-feeling warmness after the episode and that carried me the whole day💙

[@garygcrook]

Well the 10th Doctor was angry at everything he'd lost during the Time War. Yet the 14th Doctor is someone who's had a chance to process all of that, dealt with other heartache, asked them self the big questions, got in touch with their feminine side, and is now the same character without that emotional baggage and a new emotional maturity, yet still that childlike quality.

[@gm2407]

Didn't the Master kill all the time lords with the cybermen sometime between 10 and 14? Something new to be sad about.

[@yusufgazi7]

Probably leftover or learned from Jodie's Doctor

[@avadutrow7737]

Don’t worry about the TARDIS set. They acknowledged in the episode commentary that this set is being used by 15 and Ruby ☺️

[@ITechHero]

what a bland set.

[@legendg219]

@@ITechHero Needs a through homey touches like 12 did and it would be perfect

[@endersquid1132]

Honestly I think it's a fantastic call back to classic who's all white sets while still combing new whos big cavernous look, it looks great to me... But I do think that a random coat rack or armchair just in the space would be fun and break it up a bit, I hope the set grows into the role with the 15th doctor

[@aaronkay101kinetic]

I actually LOVE the set. It's a massive call back to classic Who with a modern take, having the round things light up.

[@dnmz1885]

Only ups where David and Catherine interacting. In the beginning. The rest of it was all down. Especially the lecture Donna and Rose give the Doctor at the end. "We know everything, it's a shame you're not a woman anymore you'd have understood" Male presenting time lord. You could practically feel the hate the writers have for this show in those lines.

[@urielthelesser]

I think you may have missed a few "downs": the repeated 'memberberries, the misgendering dress down of the title character, the exclusively white pice/military possessed by evil, an actual word for word "we know everything you know nothing" speech, and a blatant statement of superiority to one's "inferior" who just happens to be the shows most popular version of the title character. Again. I'd have thought that in a 60 yr anniversary special, there might be some reference to (oh, I dunno) the rest of the show's 60 yr history. But nope, had to be all identity activism all the way.

[@marklotinga]

With you on this, many many downs were missed to put it mildly.

[@Nervar]

You know your a classic example of the inverse ratio of the size of the mouth and the size of the brain

[@simonburley2692]

I know there were no “UPs” for actors’ performances (otherwise the UP count would have doubled). However, in amongst all the “I love Sylvia” comments should be at least some acknowledgement if just how BRILLIANT Jacqueline King is in that part. I guess some things are just so perfect that people don’t notice the work. I always thought she should have received an award for her performance in “Turn Left”. Her portrayal of the disintegration of a personality was stunning. Just go back and rewatch it.

[@jonathangmallender]

You're so right, I remember Jacqueline's performance in the turn left episode and it was truly amazing how she portrayed the totally despair of the situation. And she shines just as bright in this episode, as 15 years later she's become more gentle, and loving towards Donna, Rose and Shaun! Outstanding performance and great episode!

[@nathandts3401]

​@@jonathangmallenderIt'd be tough for her to still treat her as a failure when she found out that her daughter saved the universe.

[@ftumschk]

Agreed. I thought Jacqueline's, Tate's and Tennant's performances were head and shoulders above the rest of the on-camera cast. Off-camera, Miriam Margolyes was her usual reliable, if deliciously bonkers, self.

[@DaveBaked98]

I'm definitely conflicted about the new Sonic abilities but I will say as a friend of mine pointed out, it makes %1000 more sense for the doctor to have a projected screen to look at as opposed to when 11 would just stare at blank space on his sonic and somehow get this highly detailed readout on something he'd scanned. I'd still rather not see the shields again though if I'm honest

[@sinfulkri8ivity]

11 didn't stare at it. He listened to it.!!?? "Sonic" screwdriver

[@endersquid1132]

​​@@sinfulkri8ivityeven still that's like using a submarines sonar without a display and just listening like echolocation, even if it's technically possible a visual display is much more concise and reliable... That all being said I would've much preferred a secondary "sonic port" or something that does the display, cause yeah it is a bit much for the screw driver alone

[@retrogiftsuk4812]

I think it would just have worked better if he held (and kept holding) the sonic screwdriver to project the screen. That would broadly be a possible thing (rather than creating a screen that continues to exist even when the sonic is moved away) The same goes for the forcefields. Fine to create them whilst pointing the sonic in the air. But having the forcefield continuing after the Doctor has run up the stairs is just ludicrous. (Ok this would require a change to that scene with the sonic perhaps producing a forcefield 'bubble' they have to all fit in, but it would make more sense) My prediction is that the forcefield feature of the sonic screwdriver will miraculously be forgotten in later episodes...

[@GuineaPigEveryday]

I think the shield is too OP and something that will be a nagging continuity error or mechanic that the writers really rather not deal with at all. Creating a shield out of nothing will be a deus ex machina, and i think most future writers are gonna ignore it becuz why would they want their sense of stakes/danger ruined by that. Its so unnecessary becuz we all know its not gonna come back so why bring it up now

[@stillsearching5184]

The Sonic Screwdriver falls into the "I don't know exactly what it is, but I know what it isn't" The Screen doesn't really fit to me, as I'd always assumed a Sonic worked along the same principle as psychic paper. Knowing automatically what function it needed to perform with little to no input, and I can think of a number of times watching the Doctor squinting at the Sonic and getting whatever info was needed to move the plot along. Besides, who needs screens and force fields when you have the universal remote to most every bit of technology in existence...

[@officialdarkcompass]

The metacrisis was split between Donna and Rose, but that didn't weaken it surely. Even releasing half a metacrisis with destroy half an Infinite universe (which would be also infinite). It was a major plot point, and I agree it was a disappointment on how it was resolved..

[@cairneoleander8130]

But Donna originally only held half the metacrisis, and now with Rose that would split down to one quarter of it each. That may have made it manageable legitimately

[@skatez69]

Another couple of ups for me.. when Sylvia punches the Doctor when he gets in the house and he says "oh, here we go again".. that was funny! And when he gets knocked out just as he's about to start monologuing. Final one, when Donna gets awoken, and rather than immediately dealing with the situation at hand, starts to go on about giving the money away... also make me laugh, Donna is back baby!

[@charlieworthie919]

My only real down was the "male presenting timelord" line, just felt unnecessary and kind of against the theme of the episode

[@aw_1890]

Agreed. Maybe I'm just fragile, but I'm tired of seeing males being put down and shit on. This thought runs deeper for me. Its not just doctor who that has trashed on men now. It's a lot of shows and media that are doing it.

[@thedavidgreenshow]

On top of that, The Doctor is casually slapped across the face and it’s played for a laugh.

[@harrybale313]

@@thedavidgreenshowI mean that’s been a running gag before this whole extremist feminist movement, before all the male bashing he also got slapped

[@DopeyDalek]

Agreed.... Especially as the doctor has been female several times in the past including the last regeneration. Tone deaf at its highest.

[@km76]

@@harrybale313 DW has always had a mild anti-male air to it going back to the classics. During 'Robot', Sarah Jane accidentally assumes the man is the top guy and the woman scolds her, telling SJ she'd expect such assumptions from a man not a woman. There's plenty more examples from the classics, but in the '05 reboots we've seen repeated "i've upgraded" suggesting clear superiority complex issues and I seem to recall a regenerated time-lord whining about the male-ego... Whilst implying her own superiority - oh, pot kettle & black.

[@cloudyazurephoenix9931]

This episode got my mum, dad, sister and myself to sit down and watch something on TV together for the first time in YEARS! Genuinely cannot remember the last time that happened.

[@mikesummers6853]

R.I.P. Doctor Who. You will be missed.

[@Diogo85]

What do you mean?

[@sisterseverus]

My only down is that her name is Rose. I could never stand Rose (Billie Piper, not Yasmin), and I have hated how they keep making it like she is the most important character and companion the Doctor has ever had.

[@marionbaggins]

Seriously, people dis Clara, yet RTD made Rose the most important person in the universe 1st. I perfer Clara over Rose. And unlike Clara, Rose overshadowed the rest of the RTD companions/time.

[@debshaw680]

Because he loved her whether you did or not. 😂

[@B-A-L]

The most important companion the Doctor has ever had was Romana. So important that he married her, or rather Tom Baker married Lalla Ward during filming of their time together in Dr Who!

[@andrewwebb7584]

I don't mind the sonic screwdriver's air screen, as that's basically just a more visual way to show the capabilities it already had... The forcefields seem like an unexplained story breaking upgrade though!

[@tommyhickin4669]

I’m hoping the shield is created by some dalek tech incorporated that he picked up in Liberation or the children in need special. Like from the claw he stole. I can only hope it’s here to do crazy things to make the doctor a sort of marvel-style super-doctor for the specials and the sonic gets destroyed at the end. And then the next one can lack any dalek tech - maybe keep the screen so we can see when he scans stuff but no shield capability

[@mothturtle7897]

The sonic screwdriver started out as a literal screwdriver, so its apparent capabilities expanding over time is nothing new.

[@tommyhickin4669]

@@mothturtle7897 yes but to be able to block all incoming fire is a bit of a tension killer. Locking and unlocking is more of a timesaver but where it can kill tension, the show established deadlocks as a means of preventing it from unlocking ways out of many traps.

[@tchristianphoto]

Agreed. The force fields were a bit much, but the air screen seemed natural to me, as if the sonic is an extension of the TARDIS in the same way that an Apple Watch usually acts as an extension of the iPhone -- as a satellite display.

[@nexy12]

It did it once before, only when we saw it last there were 3 sonics. Back in the 50th the three doctors used theirs on a Dalek to push it back into the painting.

[@jellydonuts2343]

I actually thought the whole thing about Donna not dying at first because the metacrisis had been diluted by her having a child was clever, but then the writing just became totally ridiculous. First of all, it all went too fast for me to follow everything they were trying to jam into the last minute of conflict, and then the resolution was the stupidest thing of all: “Oh yeah, this has been an unsolvable problem for the last 15 years or so but no problem now, because we’re both women (and you, Doctor, would never know what that is like 🙄) and therefore we can just let things go”. Now, I’d like to preface my next statement by saying that I haven’t watched past the end of 11’s run in New Who, but geez, this ending was the worst writing I’ve seen from Doctor Who. It’s just pointless empowerment towards women that is in no way earned by the female characters (seriously, the doctor’s female companions were doing cooler and more empowering things back in the 2000s and guess what, their achievements then weren’t nonsensical, so they didn’t need to be spelled out for the audience). And to top it all off, and I say this as a woman myself, the absolute stupidest skill you could say that women have and men don’t is the skill to let things go. I’ve been a woman on this planet for a long time, and I have met a lot of women and a lot of men, and guess what, a lot of people (of each gender) can let things go, or they can’t. This isn’t a black and white “women can and men can’t and that’s all there is to it”. Everyone has the potential for everything. However, in my own experience the tendency is actually the opposite of how this episode painted it. If someone asked me to point out which gender typically has a more difficult time letting go of things, I would say women, and this is because I am like this, my mother is like this, many of my other female family members are like this, and many of my female friends are like this. In fact, one of the things I appreciate most about men is their ability to let things go and keep moving forward. So yeah, this ending was badly written and dumb, and even as an attempt at female empowerment it fell flat on its face. Still crossing my fingers for the next two specials, and there were many parts of this that I really did enjoy, but my overall expectations have now been lowered.

[@bec1482]

it makes no sense why they said let it go because theres literally loads of examples of past doctors letting it go. i mean the war doctor was quite happy to regenerate, he wasnt like refusing. Same with 12, he was quite happy to go too.. I mean most were quite happy to let it go and move on. I don't know if i'm missing something here, i'm confused.

[@jellydonuts2343]

@@bec1482 Yeah, it honestly reminds of that scene from She Hulk that people always criticize where Jen was telling Bruce he hadn’t ever struggled like her in his life, which completely disregards his entire canon backstory. I think this line was just another female empowerment moment that was pushed in even though it actively conflicted with past events in canon.

[@bec1482]

@@jellydonuts2343 haven't seen she hulk but from what you describe I can see why people would be annoyed by that. but yeah it does disregard the doctors past... I mean another example would be the 4th doctor, he was fighting the master on top of a radiotelescope and was hanging on but decided to let go and accept it was the end. He didn't complain or say he didn't want to go, he just decided it was the end and to just go with it. But you're right, it comes across as just another female empowerment thing forced in. I like the episode but i feel it's nowhere near as good as i was expecting it to be. I was left a bit underwhelmed by it. The donna dying situation was over too quickly and easily, it felt like there was no stakes to it, no danger. I was expecting it to be a bit more complex and risky than that if I'm honest and spread out over 3 episodes like the trailer was making it out to be. I think the trailer hyped things up and gave me false expectations.... london being ripped apart was another thing, in the trailer they made that look like it was a big deal and the climax/grand finale and that the toymaker did it but it was instead it was meeps ships engines and it was solved and easily fixed in just a few minutes. You had these massive cracks in the earth with lava flowing out yet they just closed up in a matter of minutes like nothing happened, they should have saved that for the finale in my opinion. Plus i feel they missed out an amazing opportunity to include the 4th doctor. The star beast was originally a 4th doctor comic story so i was super excited when they announced meep would be in the 60th becuase i was under the impression it was a sequel to the comic story. I had this idea that they would include a flashback of when the meep met the 4th doctor. I mean its the perfect way to include a past doctor in the 60th when you think about it. So I was very dissapointed to realise that they have just taken the comic book story, kept a lot the same and replaced the 4th doctor with the 10th doctor pretty much. Would have been so much better in my view if it was a completely new story, a sequel.

[@tereasia]

I'm a staunch feminist, and still found this ending offensive. Not cool.

[@joevictor53]

The "only women can let things go" thing just reminded me of She-Hulk and the women have more experience with controlling anger so she can control the Hulk immediately. You can be inclusive but RTD went too far with that to the point that you start insulting men for no reason. Just having it be that Donna having a child allowed it to split between 2 hearts was brilliant. That would've been enough

[@TredHedJon]

I have to say that I loved every schlocky minute of Doctor Who since I started watching in the 4th Doctor era....and some things may have disappointed me here in there with awkward messaging or such.... BUT I was rather pissed off by the end of this episode. I am a old white straight guy in my 50s...I have treated everyone the same. I dont care what your orientation, presentation, affiliation is as long as your a decent human being and can treat me and others with the respect you want. F@#$ me if the line 'a male presenting Doctor wouldnt understand" didnt piss me off to no end. I am all for girl power or Grrl Power or female empowerment...but there IS NOT A FINITE AMOUNT OF EMPOWERMENT!!!!! Everyone can be empowered without taking any away from someone else. But what do I know...Im just a dumb old white guy so I dont get to have a say or an opinion.

[@merrymoonlights3013]

No no I'm a woman and that pissed me off too. It seemed so ridiculous and unnecessarily spiteful. I liked parts of the episode for their nostalgia, but this scene felt so forced to me.

[@TredHedJon]

@@merrymoonlights3013 It also occurred to me just before watching special 2 that there was something that pissed me off. If the DoctorDonna knew everything he knew and thus Rose did too is that The Doctor was hundreds and hundreds of years old (exact age is so wildly impossible to account for because of all the shenanigans) but he would 'Not Understand' because he is male? No "Wisdom of the Ages" be cause he has boy parts now...BUT WAS JUST RECENTLY FEMALE?? This would have been simple to do right...a line about "I think just maybe we can just let it go because we are also human" or "Wait....what about our unique situation as human/timelord mixes...maybe we can...." might have worked. *Sigh*

[@TredHedJon]

Also..thanks for the support. :)

[@StopLookingAtMyAcc]

I'm all for inclusivity but using Roses being Trans non binary as a Mcguffin is a touch on the nose and potentially does a disservice to her character development

[@AlexFarleyMusic]

That character had zero development. The whole ending was pure plot convenience.

[@PileOfStones]

Not really, that's just RTD for you - do you forget the campy Mcguffin of The Doctor flying through the air because people believed in him?

[@bodycounter9386]

Non-binary people do not need character development, they are perfect from the beginning and just get better. Writers just can't write an interesting non-binary character.

[@Brejan]

What drove me crazy was why they got a 20 year old (who honestly looks more like 25) to play a 15 year old). I was genuinely confused for a while before I understood she's supposed to be still in school.

[@pinkspider28]

​@@AlexFarleyMusicand zero acting ability.....

[@onedramaboi]

I've seen this idea suggested elsewhere and it's not the most solid idea yet but Rose making toys literally makes her a Toy Maker so she may be manipulated by NPH's character in The Giggle or something similar?

[@Marcus-ll2bt]

4D chess theory. Rose making the toys is a hint within a hint that none of what we are seeing actually happened and is entirely an illusion concocted by the Toymaker to test and tease the Doctor.

[@valoraknightingale9906]

​@@Marcus-ll2btWould make the odd pacing and the fact that Donna knew the Doctor was a woman make sense.

[@joannerothwell6016]

I also thought there was a connection there xx

[@tenhayz1889]

@@valoraknightingale9906 She did? I agree the episode felt a bit rushed

[@kentthompson6407]

Did she know/mention the Doctor was a woman? It could just be the Meta-Crisis knowledge making her aware that Time Lords can change sex which helped them realize the Rose connection.

[@cube9291]

I feel so bad for Jodie Whittaker, she was an amazing doctor but she joined the crew at the wrong time and got bad stories its so sad

[@BrandonJPearce]

She had a rough go of it. It really felt like they were trying too hard with the series during her run. In other words Imho so much of Jodie Whittaker’s run felt forced. I would’ve loved it, if they had the writers who wrote Michelle Gomez’s Missy write for her Doctor. They didn’t try to bash people over the heads with her feminism, “Oh the masters a woman now? Oh cool!” If she had better writing, she would have absolutely killed it imho. I’d love to see her return and do something like David Tennant has for previous Doctor Who anniversaries, if the writing is better lol

[@brookead]

Wonderful actor and she got some really bum stuff and a very "small feeling" show to carry. She did have SOME good stories though. I didn't like the deus ex machina ending of Rosa where Ryan just casually banished the bad guy back to the dinosaurs... but the rest of the episode was really good. As was Demons of the Punjab. That was very good. I also really liked Spyfall parts 1 and 2 (again apart from the deus ex machina resolution which Chibnall did far too often.). And when you gave her the chance to shine, Jodie was every bit "The Doctor." Why did she never get a scene like Tenant with his judges wig etc. There was far too much of a wonderful actress stood there while someone else "explained." Like the Master telling the story of the Timeless Child. Or all her former selves talking to companions. I hope they bring her back at some point for a special or two so she can truly shine with a proper "big screen" show runner backing her. She was so good and she just never got the opportunity, except from a few all to brief moments.

[@cube9291]

@@BrandonJPearce yeah... it's a shame her potential got wasted

[@Acuas]

Her series was meh overall, but I think her Doctor was pretty good, I liked her as a Doctor, at first I was a bit skeptical, but at the end I was sad to see her go without having a good series that made her memorable like Tennant, Mat Smith (to be fair, he rocked it since the first episode) or Capaldi.

[@bevenstarlow]

Really hope she does big finish and gets a real shot. As an 8th doctor fan I believe in that second chance. Like 6 moreso than 8 in Jodie's case

[@Brejan]

This episode was terrible. Donna having to forget and The Doctor losing her was a huge deal and a tragic and pivotal moment in 10th Doctor's story that pushed him towards being the Timelord Victorious and one of the best episodes of his whole run, Waters of Mars. And here it's just handwaved away, super easy, barely an inconvenience. Imagine if in Fellowship of the Ring right after Gandalf's death when they get to Lorien Galadriel would tell them "you stupid male bastards, if you were female you'd know the Ring can be just wished away if you have a vagina" and then she took the Ring and it would just disappear in a puff of smoke. The end. That's what this felt like.

[@random6809]

Oh it's worse than that. It'd be like if they were the female gender in the previous film and didn't think of doing it as a woman and then changed gender for the next film only to be told a woman would have thought of it.

[@judithstrachan9399]

Not quite. If Rose is trans (a point I COMPLETELY missed ALL the way through) wouldn’t that mean she doesn’t have a vagina, or not a uterus, anyway.

[@Brejan]

@@judithstrachan9399 I guess. The general point still stands though. I completely missed the trans thing too, by the way :D

[@rayzermaniac5218]

While I liked the Sonic Screwdriver upgrades I didn't like how they just appeared. Like the abilities The Doctor needed were just there, on demand. Mind you that last line does pretty much sum up the Sonic Screwdriver perfectly. There should have been a scene with The Doctor upgrading it. You could have even made ma joke about it where a screen pops up from the Sonic and says "An updrade for your device is available. Would you like to update now?" As a reference to mobile phones. 100% agree on the whole let it go fiasco. It was like "But Donna you may still burn up, but slower. We still need a plan to stop you both dying" "I've got the perfect solution!" "Which is?" "Not dying." Oh right, yea I guess that is one way to do it. Also something just clicked for me. In interviews RTD said that the TARDIS was going to be made wheelchair accessible. Then in Star Beast they mention that Wilfred can no longer get up the stairs anymore. I think The Doctor is going to offer to take Wilf into the TARDIS and possibly take him on one last trip, and its going to break me.

[@Ben9263Thurber]

It's been almost 24 hours since it premiered and I have a bit of a thought about the "letting it go" part. When the Doctor had to erase Donna's memories of him in order to save her from the metacrisis, the fact that a few trigger words reactivated it shows that it was still really there, just asleep. That was also showed in "End of Time" when she was able to knock out copies of The Master with that energy blast, that the metacrisis was still there, just inactive. So what if the DoctorDonna had been working on it, while asleep, for 15 years? I mean, the Doctor thinks it's okay, that she's safe. He thinks she's done and that they'll never travel again, but here she is, secretly working on it while the metacrisis is inactive. This means that, when she and Rose "gave it up," it had been the full working of it over the past 15 years.

[@SaridenChan]

I really like this! I was specualting, that it was only possible to "let it go", because of the same reason, it didn't killed Donna, through the halved power down it's no more "deadlock sealt" and so for not this "hard" to get out (or something like that), just to make more sense than just "meh, just women and non binary people get it", what really didn't sick right for me (as a woman), since the doctor themself is more than a man or a woman, whitch regeneration they may be. I will adapt your headcanon to mine and make sense to this mess with this❣

[@slevinchannel7589]

This video here is f-ing dishonesstttt Just lost Respect for this channel. Holy s-itfestival, yeah, IF we ignore dozens of Issues including all in the video 'Just Soe Guy' just uploaded, its "ONLY THREE DOWN-POINTTSSSS" F-ck, bias-boner is erect&strong

[@brefasdra]

Yeah i think a "its had 15 years in my subconcious to figure out how to remove itself, just needed you to reactivate it" would have been better than "women can just let it go"

[@UKModred]

@@brefasdra the only problem I had with 15 years is Rose looks about 20, certainly not 15

[@ooooneeee]

I love this so much. Just like in the 50th anniversary where 10's sonic had worked on calculating a wooden door for hundreds of years so that 11's sonic could open it.

[@andrewainsworth9246]

I thought the episode was good overall but there were definitely a few problems with it. The first minor gripe is that I thought it kinda looked TOO cinematic which sounds odd but for me at least I always liked the slightly low budget aesthetic where it never felt too polished, but a few scenes looked a bit too polished imo, although I think that’s sth we’ll get used to in the future especially if the episodes continue to be this good if not better. The first big issue was that I felt Rose being trans as a PLOT point at the end was handled kinda clumsily. Towards the start with the deadnaming and the bullying and Sylvia was genuinely perfect and incredibly realistic and held a lot of weight. However at the end it felt really clumsy. I gotta disagree with you, the “binary…. Non binary” bit felt so clumsy and if it was written by anyone other than RTD who we know is a massive ally, it may have felt insulting I think. Then again as a straight person I’m not the target demographic, but it just felt clumsy. Finally I think the ending felt a smidge rushed and I wish they put more weight on the excitement of Donna getting her memories back and being able to keep them and her being alive and whatnot. Also the “just let it go” did definitely feel anticlimactic and way too blasé. I can understand why she never did it 13 years ago as her head was probably way way too busy with too many thoughts and adrenaline and it probably just needed the time that was afforded to her by it being slowed by Rose getting some of it, but even so it felt way too casual and not momentous enough. Generally though, aside from those gripes, the episode was definitely good and it feels really nice to finally feel genuinely excited for future episodes and more importantly to TRUST that they will be good for the first time in years, can’t wait for the next two episodes and for Ncuti’s doctor after that

[@ZeitgeistRuminator]

Towards the end I thought Donna and Rose were going to burst into song: "🎵 Let It Go...🎵" My heart did sink, and I think I groaned a little albeit briefly.

[@user-mg5cm4vs3m]

I have loved Doctor Who ho for as long as I can remember, my dad's friend had a full size Darlek and I was terrified by Davros as child, he was the best villain in a story. In short, I loved everything about Doctor Who and I have had the privilege of meeting a number of the doctors I saw on TV in real life, my favorite being the 4th Doctor, Tom Baker. However, In recent years the quality of writing got progressively worse and became more social commentary instead of escapist fun. Gone was the light hearted quips and clever solutions, replaced by with political ideology from writers who thought they were morally superior to the audience. When Jodie Whittaker took the mantle on in 2017 I was hopeful for a different take and I respected her as an actor. However, after 3 episodes I couldn't watch anymore, the show did't feel like Doctor Who any more. I couldn't watch this anymore, so I stopped watching. When I saw that DT was returning for 3 specials I was really excited, but concerned, I really hoped we would get a great story and return to form, just light hearted Saturday evening entertainment like we had for most of my life. I tuned in, feeling excited and hopeful, however I had to stop watching it when I tried it was bloody awful, if anything this was terrible, such a horrible way to see this national treasure of character treated and 60 years of it's legacy defecated upon. Story was replaced by identity politics and clever dialogue was replaced by gender based lecture, "it's ashame you are not a woman"!!!!! What the actual !. I felt like the doctor was the antagonist and his gender was the enemy. It was like seeing a family member getting murdered in front of me. It actually made me really angry. It was shameful to see the BBC do this to the Doctor. I was really hoping this would have made it watchable again but I couldn't have been more wrong. I feel they have disrespected the character, 60 years of world building, a vast part of the audience and this has killed the Doctor for me forever. It's a heartbreaking way to see such a big part of my life destroyed in such an evil way. Russell is the real Davros, he has managed what he never did. He killed Doctor Who. RIP Doctor Who 1963-2017.

[@random6809]

It is bizarre that they are attacking half of their viewing audience. It's just weird! While I expect great viewing figures for the specials and the new Doctor too, I fear the viewing figures will sharply decline again with this sort of writing and divisiveness. The irony is that in the rush for inclusion, they have not included a large chunk of their viewership, merely a tiny minority.

[@garrethb6261]

Wow, that's really dramatic don't you think?

[@KingOfVermin]

The wilf thing actually killed me. I had to pause the episode right there and then lmaooo started thinking about 10 sacrificing himself just for Wilf to live a couple of extra years and that nearly broke me

[@UltimatTacoman]

Is it worse or better knowing he wouldn't have changed it for all the epochs in the universe?

[@DoctorVision]

Well technically Wilf has lived for another 14 years so it wasn't a bad sacrifice. Anyway, I don't think the Doctor could have ever faced Donna again knowing he let her grandfather die just so he could indulge his own vanity to keep the face he liked.

[@KingOfVermin]

@@DoctorVision Wilf is still alive.

[@DoctorVision]

@@KingOfVermin Yes, I'm well aware of that I'm talking hypothetically if the Doctor had left him in the radiation chamber to die.

[@haruyasumi616]

sylvia was a lot more likeable in this episode. she just seemed purely horrible in the past, and like she was just made of anger and dissaproval. she seemed a lot more human this time round.

[@BillBrothersHeatingandAir]

I think RTD started trying to make Sylvia more relatable and understandable in the End of Time (and a bit in Turn Left) but didn’t get enough of a shot at it. imo she’s much more palatable than Martha’s mum who tried to give up her own daughter to The Master. I like that Sylvia kind of had her own little arc where her daughter being put in danger by her adventures with the Doctor forces her to realize that she took Donna for granted.

[@irrevenant3]

@@BillBrothersHeatingandAirMartha's mum (Francine) was understandable. Her daughter told her nothing and she was approached by Government officials telling her that the Doctor is a dangerous man that her daughter needed to be protected from. Most parents would go along with that. It's not like she had any idea who The Master was.

[@Herbert04]

sylvia is a Karen. she plays her role well. She is supposed to be annoying.

[@1972LittleC]

​@@Herbert04 I wouldn't call her a Karen, because she had a real reason here; the life or death of her daughter

[@Herbert04]

@@1972LittleC Yes but you have to look at her character from the past as well.

[@bgalazka1868]

biggest down for me is sexist lines like "You know nothing. It's a shame you're not a woman anymore" or "Something a male-presenting Time Lord will never understand" and than they deal with metacrisis with ease.

[@KrytonsHead]

RIP, Dr Who. You will be missed.

[@CammieBoi81]

The opening recap was weird, considering it was essentially redone when the Doctor was talking to Shirley and Donna talking to her Mum. It could have been done differently or just left out. The new sonic wasnt even explained how he got it, hopefully it's covered at some point and has The Doctor wondering why he hasnt questioned it.

[@whocaresreallly5886]

There was a comic series called the Liberation of the Daleks that at leadt explains what happens to 13's sonic

[@doggiedaddy5330]

​@whocaresreallly5886 not everyone reads the comics.

[@whocaresreallly5886]

@@doggiedaddy5330 yeah which is why i was letting it be known i watched a youtube video that narrated them and that's how i learned

[@CammieBoi81]

@@whocaresreallly5886 Thanks, just read a recap on it.

[@Velociraptour]

It was like that weird Amy Pond intro from series 6 that people just skipped.

[@blacktie2331]

I absolutely loved this special. The tone and effects were stop on. All the actors did an amazing job as well. This feels like Doctor Who again. Although, letting go of the Metacrisis was such a cop out. I’m partially glad they did it early, so we have original Donna back for longer, but be a little more creative. The Doctor, male or otherwise, has been alive for hundreds of years since then and never thought to just let it go? It could’ve been used as a clever way to take down an overambitious villain. Also, make the point that them letting go was due to their human nature and the doctor never considered it because he had a time lord’s way of thinking. The doctor donna or 13 could’ve come up with that solution if it was just gender based.

[@markkuhirvenlahti9361]

I think the episode was otherwise amazing and so awesome but the wokeism was really unnecessary...🤔

[@navarog378]

I clearly don't understand this show anymore because I'm a cis white man. That's what I learned in this episode. Very educative 10/10

[@random6809]

They forgot to include you in their ham-fisted attempts at inclusion.

[@anniesharp4871]

I loved how Tennant was playing 14 with some of 13s mannerisms and vocal inflections. Even the way he crossed his legs while driving away from Shirley was SO 13!!

[@georgia4159]

It was insane how different but similar 14 is when compared to 10. Tennant has knocked it out of the park!

[@SomeBritishGal1]

It felt very David Tennant, which is a good thing because he's an even better actor than he was in 2009 and he brings so much of himself to every role he plays

[@darrenrichardson6146]

I think it also helped that he's worked with Jodie on Boardchurch so he's spent time getting to know her little ticks and inflictions and can channel them even better.

[@ooooneeee]

He also incorporate elements of 11 and 12 and what they learned in their incarnations. A great way to get 10 fans to watch and then gradually reveal how he has grown since 10.

[@conwarlock3537]

I think with the realism of Meep it also helped that they probably pulled a trick similar to Grogu(Baby Yoda) by designing him purposefully like a puppet(which also serves the plot) so they could use CGI and props interchangeably better without it being noticed.

[@pauldysinger8175]

The script in the dialogue felt AI generated, and for award-winning and phenomenal actors and actresses to give the performances they did was a shame. It just felt like a soulless grab to bring back the fans to do a switcheroo on them.

[@Andrew-up3dr]

The whole non binary thing and the "it's a shame your not a woman" thing is so fuckin dumb and unnecessary

[@TheStormingmonkey]

The only part about rose inheriting the meta crisis, to me, kind of implied that that was the "cause" of her being trans, and watching it, when she said "I finally know who I am" It didn't really connect that she "picked a gender"

[@mujiescomedy279]

Well, she’s trans she didn’t pick a gender in the first place. But my headcanon is that Donna was just wrong about that and Rose being trans had nothing to do with the metacrisis

[@RachaelLink]

I actually felt like it was not needed. The gender remarks made in the episode (except for the discussion between dona and Sylvia) felt jarring and like activism.

[@YourBeingParanoid]

Oh no, it's happened again - gender is not biology, and non-binary is not trans. @@mujiescomedy279

[@smash461986]

I'm sorry, was Rose supposed to be trans? I saw no indication of that and when that non binary line happened at the end I was like wtf even is this? Man that was a bad episode

[@cipherhex]

​@@smash461986 So you missed Rose & Donna's second scene, where boys on bikes taunt her by calling her "Jason"

[@TheStormingmonkey]

When Silvia said "then you got better" made me think of Dr Moon

[@EricaGamet]

Someone recently pointed out to me how Donna says, "I saw the doctor" then Dr. Moon says, "And then... you forgot." And I never pieced that together with her ending in S4. I feel like nothing RTD puts into his scripts is accidental.

[@TheStormingmonkey]

@@EricaGamet oh yes! I never realised that

[@garryowen6671]

I used to love Dr who, But the bbc has killed it for me, never again will i watch it.

[@Diogo85]

It was a great episode.

[@brentbarr498]

13:44 We've also NEVER seen the Doctor COME BACK after a generation into someone whom we know and love!

[@slevinchannel7589]

Just lost Respect for this channel. Holy s-itfestival, yeah, IF we ignore dozens of Issues including all in the video 'Just Soe Guy' just uploaded, its "ONLY THREE DOWN-POINTTSSS" F-ck, bias-boner is erect&strong

[@Jason_xofilos]

One point and theory of mine beyond the whole “binary binary” is that two hearts were needed to manage the “Doctor” part of Doctor Donna which human Donna just couldn’t manage by herself only at this point with her child. So the ability to then let go of power required not just Donna but Rose as well. Thoughts?

[@kellyzavandro456]

Yes, I understood that the same way

[@YaBoiJoosh]

Until Rose said "nonbinary" which then felt like a really forced aspect of the episode, I also think the reasoning for Donna being alive is very average

[@Tom_North]

@@YaBoiJoosh- ohhhhh that whole fucking non-binary bollocks and when rose said “you’re just assuming it’s gender”…I genuinely thought they were taking the piss but noooooo they’re legit…like wtaf 🤨

[@catmurray6752]

I like this theory. I couldn't figure out the binary thing😇

[@rcgriffin17]

@@Tom_Northik mate what a load of bollocks , I just want some vintage Doctor Who none of this pronoun crap

[@victorhale]

One thing that i noticed when the meep got defeated was that it said THE BOSS. Considering who was hinted at in the trailer, im genuinely terrified. You got wild blue yonder being a very horror centered episode supposedly, and then you got the toymaker reappearing, and the tardis RUNNING THE F*** AWAY!!! That implies some serious chaos is about to happen giving what happened last time

[@JamesThomasJeans]

David said in the commentary that he doesn't know who the Boss is, but Phil and RTD do. So I think the Boss is set up for Ncuti's first series.

[@AngelaH2222]

I'd love to see the Meep escape and cause chaos for Ncuti, Who is good at setting up long term scenarios

[@Reoh0z]

I get the message behind the "let it go" was good. But as a story point it felt weak. I thought sharing the meta-criss was a great concept, but that The Meep was going to learn who DW was and try to steal the Meta-Crisis for themselves... which obviously would have resulted in its death instead of the Noble's. It even felt like they were building up to that with the two-hearts revelation, and The Meep's race sucking in the light from the star, and the use of the possession lights on the Soldiers. That way the MC would still have been a serious threat and not something just tossed aside like trash.

[@keit99]

It was a taf bit badly written. Also they could have flcused more on the doctor who always had trouble with just letting Things or people go. At least with the way they used.

[@StevenHouse1980]

"Hail to The Meep!" Dona talking about giving away her winnings, she could have been meening her Dad. Also the fact the that the winning lottery ticket, was paid for useing money The Doctor got from her Dad.

[@TheToonMonkey]

Parts of it felt like they were written soley for ham fisted message delivery rather than the message being a subtle, natural part of the plot.

[@DannyJones81]

What message were they delivering?

[@revitalisestudios1930]

REAL. Honestly it’s enough having diverse actors and characters and maybe mentioning it once. You don’t need it shoved down your throat. The “binary non binary” thing was rlly cringe. And I’m an avid supporter of the LGBTQIA+ community

[@davids6145]

@@revitalisestudios1930 I'll phrase this carefully because I don't want to cause offence - I found Chibnall forced issues on you - really hammered every. Single. Message. But RTD made me laugh with the discussion of the pronoun with the Dr and the Meep. And I liked the reference to binary/non binary at the end of the metacrisis. Normally I really don't enjoy a show that keeps trying to show a message all the time BUT in this instance, I felt the messages weren't too pushy, felt organic in the episode and were often put across in an entertaining way. I cared about Rose - she wasn't a "symbol" of a message or anything, she was a person you rooted for. Loved new scientific advisor. And let's be honest, it was the best flipping episode in years.

[@lewiss626]

​​@@davids6145I agree. The line about pronounces sounded so forced and didn't really fit in with the conversation.

[@chrisolive464]

I agree and don't want to offend anyone but it felt so forced and awkward. Ramming something down the audiences throat and avoiding subtlety ruined it a bit for me.

[@Trachitol]

First off, I did like the episode. But, as many people have mentioned below. The shoehorned and forced scenes truly detracted from the episode as a whole. And I think that @WhoCulture did a disservice on not actually addressing the core of it and only talking about the fact it was weak writing. The first scene I mean is where rose said something like ‘did you just assume its gender’. This truly felt out of place and instantly made me dislike the character. Because of the sheer fact that it is such an unnecessary statement there are many more subtle and polite ways to get that point across that do not ‘attack’ someone. The people who say it exactly like Rose did in this scene are usually not the ones that are a positive influence on anything. This one pales in comparison to the second one, while the scene above made me dislike Rose as a character it, at least, didn’t harm the plot. The second one is the way the ‘resolved’ the meta crisis. They started with an absolutely golden ‘binary, share the load’ reasoning that I loved. But then utterly undermined themselves later. The whole spiel of ‘we’re ladies so we can let go’ was a clear cut jab at males and completely uncalled for and even contradicts a previous statement where it was said that the doctor is neither male nor female. It felt truly out of place and a huge copout, and one so easily fixed with one change of word. Change ‘male (presenting something or another)’ and change it to ‘human’. It would fit fully with the doctor and the Nobels backstories…. Or better yet, leave it as it was, why ‘let go’ they solved it for now by spitting it and could, in due time and with more care’ resolve it over the other specials. I truly hope we’re going to see less forced content and return to proper who.

[@random6809]

"The whole spiel of ‘we’re ladies so we can let go’..." Pity that The Doctor didn't think of it when presenting as a women literally just before this incarnation...

[@stevepullen5228]

Hi Ellie, hope you are good. I feel I was very invested in the Doctor. I was born a year after the first episode aired. Jon Pertwee was 'my doctor'. I used to watch as the whole rest of my family would jump into the car and go out somewhere for the day every Saturday. I would stay home on my own because, for 20 short minutes, there would be a new episode of Doctor Who. Serial form, cliff hangers, no repeats, no catch up tv, no Sky+, not even a video recorder (ask your dad what one of those was!) to enable me to watch it at any other time than 'live'. Great days! Of course, it would take very skilled writing to produce something that can have broad appeal to amuse a veteran fan like myself, whilst amusing their kids, and pulling in a new generation of fans. I remember when I tuned in for the first episode of the Jodie Whittaker run - I switched off when it became clear it was not written for the likes of me - the lines 'I thought you were a man' with the snarky instant comeback 'I had an upgrade', making that very clear to me - so not equality, but just another badly penned 'women are great, men are the worst' show. I wonder how anybody with any care about the show can tolerate what happened on Saturday - 'Space Beast' suggested that we were in for a traditional Doctor Who romp. However, the episode should have been called 'Stick it to the man' after all the physical, verbal, and mocking comments that we saw him have to soak up. I think there might have been a bit of an uproar had the episode finished with 2 men telling a woman that they know everything, she knows nothing and, had she still been a man, then she would have understood. Anyway, long way of saying that I have no interest now in anywhere else that the Doctor goes, who he travels with, who writes it, who he battles, or anything - I have clocked out. I share the opinion of the BBC's own TV critic. I am blessed with access to the whole back catalogue of classic episodes due to iPlayer, and have been having hours of fun with that since it went up. I am sure the day will come when they get digitally 'corrected for the modern audience' (e.g. Davros being deep-fake swapped-out with the new Hitler style white middle aged man version, so that he can not offend anybody, etc). What puzzles me a little is if Whoculture loves the doctor (after all it gives it plenty of support, free promotion, all round love - seemingly, getting absolutely nothing in return - not even an invite to a preview screening of the new episodes before they go to the public) - then how can it accept, still support and love the direction being taken? As with new episodes of the show itself, I also take this as my cue to say goodbye to Whoculture too because it won't have anything that I need to hear from now on.

[@liamgreen7101]

Sylvia was the best character in this episode, loved her!

[@WhoCulture]

Sylvia is the true MVP!

[@aperocknroll88]

Honestly I'm wondering how Shaun can just be so accepting of the chaos he walked into. There's something there. Either Unit got ahold of him and explained things or Wilf did or something.

[@viola1333]

I didn't like the optics of The Doctor floating in space but I liked that the opening in its form was there. I think the long recap is needed at the start of this episode. Not everyone watching it will have been through every trailer / teaser / extra before. If this episode is your starting point, the opening does a good job picking you up and bringing you up to speed about the Doctor / Donna history and for me as Doctor Who fan, it was a nice trip down memory lane.

[@jjanglesandfriends]

Between the companion group that happened at the end of Jodie’s run and Donna being perfect evidence of why you should check-in more often, I think it’d be great if we could get reoccuring friends in different timezones. Kinda like the vibe of 10 traveling with Donna but then Martha was there for a couple episodes.

[@davidhoffman6509]

I’ve been watching this show for 40 years and all I have to say is that I found it to be “not good”. It’s difficult for me to speak about this show badly, but I thought everything about it was “not good “.

[@marklotinga]

I feel much the same way only possibly stronger. It is clearly not a show with us and other long-term fans in mind.

[@davidhoffman6509]

@@marklotinga Oh I feel much strong about this, but trying to phrase things a certain way online so as not to incur the wrath of certain demographics. 100% agree that they aren't making this show for the long term fans of the show and are going after a younger demographic that has certain ideologies. It's complete rubbish.

[@marklotinga]

@@davidhoffman6509 David, I understand what you are saying and agree 100%.

[@philipwhelan14]

For me, everything worked except "let it go". I loved the whole Rose thing, but I presume at least 2% of the Daily Mail readers have already died of a stroke. I loved the new theme and the musical callbacks

[@TheDJBagpuss]

Yep there will be a section of the Internet screaming like banshees over how the episode "dialled wokeness up to 11" or something generally like that. I must admit there were a couple of times when RTD hit us over the head with the "don't be prejudiced" message, e.g. when Rose says to the Doctor not to assume Meep's gender. I would have preferred a line like "He?" not what we got, which was a line which is now a meme. I have a trans family member so I know all too well about accidentally referring to someone by the gender they were. I watched with my sons & although transgenderism isn't an issue for them they felt that a couple of the lines or moments focusing on the subject were handled in a slightly clumsy way. The "binary/non-binary" lines when Donna & Rose had their meta-crisis reversions did make us cringe slightly, I'm sorry. The condescension over 14 being a "male presenting Timelord" was not needed either. I'll take the metaphorical slap in the face as a man, but please RTD don't write too much man-bashing. Let's all get on! If you want to be inclusive don't alienate part of your universe. Those few gripes aside I did enjoy the episode but I'm not going to give it as giddy praise as Elliie. I will give it 7.5 out of 10.

[@TheDJBagpuss]

*audience not universe! I must have the Whoniverse on my mind! 😂

[@tomsheldon4950]

The whole Rose is trans and what gender is the Meep alien felt too forced for me and I’m a tofu eating leftie

[@TheDJBagpuss]

@@tomsheldon4950 I lean left a bit but I don't eat tofu 😂

[@GuitarJammerJohn]

I do think it was beaten over our heads a bit much tbh but her being non-binary was relevant to the Metacrisis so I kind of get why Davies kept telling us and wanted to make sure we knew she was non-binary. Though I did find the ending a bit stupid we’re women so we can just let it go. The Doctor has literally been both why can’t he ”just let it go” it would have been better and made more sense if they said because we’re human we can just let it go.