Dodging Disbandment and Other Extreme Sports: A History of Dreamcatcher Reaction

[@laurenclaire]

Sorry folks that my external mic wasn't working in this video! You can pretty clearly tell its unplugged in the back 😅 It'll be fixed for my next video! Thanks for watching as always ❤️ hope you enjoy!

[@SannaKore]

When kpop fandoms talk about "a win" it's different than the award show wins that westerners think of and they do have those, too, like the MAMAs for example. In this case, though, "a win" refers to winning first place for the week on one of the many music shows on Korean television. A music show is an hour long live broadcast that has musical performances by several different kpop groups with little interviews and skits sprinkled in as well. When an idol group debuts or makes a comeback they spend one to two months promoting on these shows and it's quite a grueling process. The less popular a group is means they're going to do more shows and promote for as long as possible for a chance to reach new listeners. For their promotions, Dreamcatcher tends to go to all music shows, that's six days a week, for about a month and a half. Each music show has its own rating system and categories such as digital sales, physical album sales and youtube views are weighted differently from show to show. Most of the shows have a fan vote element to them as well. Eventhough this "win" isn't as prestigious as an end of the year industry award the reason why its so important to new groups and groups from smaller companies is that it is a signifier to the entertainment industry that you are even worth their time. The Kpop industry moves fast. As you said, the turnover rate for music is lightening fast compared to most western artists. That's because the best case scenario for groups is to last about seven years, ESPECIALLY if its a girl group. So a win means you have the public's attention and they will tune in to watch you in all the various things and the offers to be on variety shows and year end music specials and similar projects will start coming in. That is immensely helpful to the smaller groups who are in desperate need of visibility in Korea. All of that to say a win unlocks opportunity. Not only that, but to the groups themselves it can represent stability and security. There's a reason you'll see so many groups cry when they get their first win, it's like a stress relief. Another analogy that just came to me is debuting in a Kpop group is still like an audition and "a win" is like you finally got the part. You're a real group now. I'm not saying that's the reality, but I think it's how it can feel to these groups that are struggling to be relevant. Sorry for the long spiel! I hope I was able to explain it in a way that made sense! 😅

[@홍차왕자-f7k]

In the K-pop market, a small agency receives money from investors to create a new K-pop group. And if a K-pop group's song succeeds, they get an investment again and use that money to make a new album. Back in 2014, cute concepts like Minx easily caught the attention of investors. However, in the K-pop market, rock sounds like Dreamcatcher were very new to investors. So trying something new always takes a long time. Fortunately, Happy Face Ent succeeded in convincing investors that Dreamcatcher would succeed in the Japanese, a big market. Dreamcatcher did not succeed in the Korean and Japanese markets. However, Dreamcatcher succeeded in gaining international fan support.

[@mg137b]

Wait this is new...about the investor thing I think dreamcatcher need a good japanese agency or company to promote them. Ponyo canon did their best but i was thinking of sony jp since they are with sony kr

[@GLawSomnia]

Sorry but you have no proof to back your claim (i never heard about anything you said and i am following them closely)

[@dreamywhales]

They did kind of succeed in Japan...the 2nd largest fanbase is in Japan. Thats why they even had an official japanese fanclub and toured there often. They arent huge but they have a sizeable fanbase. Their contract with pony canyon and japanese activities were suspended because of covid making it hard to visit.

[@PaulLeach123]

My take: rock has not been and is not popular is Korea - when Minx came out, Happyface was doing something marketable - but the market was too saturated and Happyface was too small. Happyface risk to not disband and give up on the girls, is unheard of, and they picked a genre that would knowingly kill their domestic success to get some eyes by being so different (Maybe won't mean sales but the countercultural thrust would at least let them do something they couldn't do as Minx - stand out). But j-rock is very VERY niche (I personally am not a fan of the genre) so now that the group was getting some eyes, Happyface is doing the RIGHT thing by swinging the music back to be more BROADLY appealing but keeping its rock roots. What we have now I think is what Dreamcatcher really is - the pendulum had to swing back towards the center to gain a greater audience - I think you begin seeing this transformation with "what" and "piri" (the Era that I start liking them) and a real lean into it with "deja vu" and the dystopia series (scream, boca, odd eye). The story of Dreamcatcher is one of the most moving underdog stories ever, and hopefully they'll continue to grow their fanbase - the newer music is a great example of attempt to have a broader appeal

[@ReapTheWhirlwind]

The thing about Dreamcatcher is that they really are a threat to the industry. They don't follow trends and they've been around long enough to become influential to new artists. I think that their ability to influence new artists is one of the reasons more people are getting into them. Over the past year and a half a lot of girl groups have debuted and no matter their concept so many have named Dreamcatcher as one of their favorite groups. This is a big threat to the industry because smaller companies are taking more chances on concepts, trainees, and even choreography. No longer can SM, YG, JYP, and now HYBE just debut a group with an only slightly original concept and everyone below them will follow. Another important aspect of Dreamcatcher's influence is that their level of success is achievable for smaller companies. There are a few girl groups from smaller & mid tier labels that are really successful(e.g. Mamamoo, G-Idle, Oh My Girl!, Everglow, etc) but in almost every case it was really based on lucky debut conditions or a moment of virality. Dreamcatcher has sold over 100k albums and they didn't need to look at anyone else's homework to do that. 😂 Edit: If you like edutainment style K-Pop tea videos Midnight Theories and Ploopy678 are both awesome for that. Neither is really biased towards any company and you learn a lot about K-Pop history from their channels.

[@muhdzaidi3051]

"Influential". Yup, you worded it better lol. The most prominent groups that are brave enough to follow DC's footstep are Pinkfantasy and Rolling Quartz. Especially the latter

[@ThatFoxGirl]

I’d mention PIXY as a group following in Dreamcatchers footsteps too. I have no clue if they’ve mentioned any inspiration from DC, but their concept and sound are very similar for sure.

[@davids12345100]

The whole idea of disbandment stems from their contracts. When they become trainees they sign a trainee contract then once they debut they sign a performance contract. The industry standard for performance contracts is 7 years so at the end of the contract you get x number of members looking to renew (sometimes with their current label but all too often with other labels) & there’s a chance each of the members want different things, ie….solo career, acting, tv personality, get out of the business. It’s commonly referred to as the 7 year curse and as a rule, is more common with gg’s than bg’s…..mostly because bg’s tend to be more popular & the labels are willing to work with them. Of course the other morecommon reason is that far too many people get involved in the business without proper financing so many of those label’s groups don’t even make it to 7 years….sometimes even disbanding before their first comeback. Kpop, like many entertainment industries, is a kind of throw it against the wall & see what sticks business. The other thing playing against DC is the fact that they are actively subverting the norms (& thank god!) in an industry that doesn’t like that in the least…

[@Brickerbrack]

5:15 That's exactly it. They had a bag of talent, and a fairly standard concept which _might_ have worked, but they needed some of that luck to get the traction they needed. And they didn't... 8:25 I think it wasn't the concept to start with _because_ it was so risky, and was a result of the standard fare not working for them. They only really had one more shot to make it, so they decided to shake it up big time and came up with the Deukae concept. Super Bomb, by the way are a three-piece production outfit, two members of whom are Leez and Ollounder, who've stuck with Deukae for their entire run. 15:50 And does Dami not just draw your eye as well, among everyone else there with her..? 😍 18:20 I'm not fully sure how it would have worked for Dreamcatcher if anyone had made it to debut; I guess they would have operated without those members for the duration, as they wound up doing when Dongie was in China. 21:45 Their first two releases were just single albums, to be fair, each with one title track, one B-side, and an intro and instrumental. And the gap between Fly High and You and I was a whopping 10 months, which was a risky gap considering they hadn't made their foothold yet. 26:10 It was indeed a rebrand. DCC are the parent company, with D1CE Company and HF Music Company as subsidiaries. 26:35 Melbourne. They wound up organising an impromptu fanmeet to make up for it, at an area they'd found out had a DC graffiti mural... 29:30 Every week, there are several notable music shows that artists promote on, which give an award; it's based on fan votes, sales, streams and a whole bunch of other factors. These factors narrow down to three nominees, then during the actual airing of the show, there's a second vote, and the winner of that vote is the final winner of that show for that week. It seems daft, but they _are_ important within the industry, and can really open doors to a fledgeling group. 33:20 It's _extremely_ confusing, and frankly pretty opaque... probably deliberately so. I think most of the calculations people make in this segment are based on reverse-engineering, as well as occasional leaks from insiders as to the process... which changes time to time, as well. 36:20 We don't know for sure _why_ the rigging would have happened, but it's probably _mostly_ from parent companies with significant pull to get _their_ groups the advantage; return on investment and all that. In this case, Everglow's Chinese parent company _may_ have tipped the scales to make sure EG won ; they just had to push _really_ hard to make it balance this time. But in their case, there's also the possibility that it _might_ have been a punitive effort from YG (who apparently also had quite a bit of influence on SBS, who run the Show) in retaliation for Happyface's lawsuit against them. Honestly, though, the issue has never been addressed, so all we have is our own speculation, and massive pools of distrust. 😜 38:50 No, no, it's genuinely not there. 39:20 Although Deukae weren't necessarily taking hold as well as they might have liked, they were (and are) still the company's biggest success. Plus, as Vkos said, their CEO, Lee Juwon, seems to pretty much be an extra dad to them, and he knew from the start that their failure as MinX had _nothing_ to do with any lack of talent or dedication on their part, and everything to do with HF's own strategy, and external influences. They were too valuable to just drop at the first sign of trouble. He's "joked" that if Dreamcatcher didn't work either, he was going to start a cucumber business for them... 😂 twitter.com/trulyooh/status/1355047699154788352 They're also incredibly well-liked among their peers. I _defy_ you to find anyone who's met them who has anything less than gushing praise for both their talent and skills, _and_ their personalities; you just _can't_ not love them. I think they've proved that they're in it for the long haul... 😁 I always say that no matter how much you _already_ respect Dreamcatcher, this documentary will increase that respect exponentially... 🥰

[@iQiLefty]

Ayyy

[@Brickerbrack]

@@iQiLefty EYYYYYY! 😜

[@Brickerbrack]

@ᛊᚺᛁᚾᛃᛁ Such is my way... 😉

[@JanJan0019]

To answer some stuff -They went with a "cute" concept because in the industry is what girl groups usually go for, it's a safe and conventional route although as seen with Dreamcatcher it doesn't guarantee success. -Not sure if you know but in kpop "survival shows" are very popular and common. Shows like "produce 101", "Produce 48" and "The Unit" have a bunch of trainees from different companies competing and getting eliminated by rounds with the goal of the final lineup debuting in a temporary new group. with the intent of promoting, getting popular and such so that when the members part way and go back to their respective companies they will not only have experience but also fans already for whatever step they'll take next in the industry. -Korea has a bunch of music shows that air on Tv there where artist and groups perform and promote and by the end of each week by voting and other factors an artist wins a trophy. Those "wins" help the artist get more recognition, promotion and also helps to solidify them in the industry. To add on this point something that never made sense is that Dreamcatcher with each comeback gets more fans, views and recognition and have been in the top 10 of the best selling girl groups in Korea for the past 2 years (album wise) but yet have not gotten a win on music shows and yet less popular group have won. -Lots of people in the fandom think that many parts of the industry has it against Dreamcatcher and while im not gonna say that I don't think that sometimes because there's honestly stuff that has happened that don't seem like a coincidence no more; Dreamcatcher is like a "black sheep" in Korea, while they do get recognized somewhat for their impact and such at the same time they don't as much as they should simply because their sound and concept is unconventional in the industry and they're a girl group from a somewhat small company.

[@홍차왕자-f7k]

In Korea, there are five music shows every week hosted by the broadcasting company. BTS and Blackpink have hundreds of music show trophies. Even groups less popular than Dreamcatcher often win music shows. Dreamcatcher is not very popular in Korea first, and secondly, very unlucky. In a situation where Dreamcatcher's championship was scheduled, the show was canceled due to a pandemic.

[@anyzhingdeukae]

Yeah that " even groups less popular than Dreamcatcher often win music shows" sometimes that's made me frustrated 😣

[@kevanhanindra9103]

Now Dreamcatcher is on the level where first music show's win doesn't matter anymore. In fact, they will be mentioned on every new GG that have rock sound in their music. /Sorry for my English/

[@anyzhingdeukae]

@@kevanhanindra9103 agreed.

[@Black3ight]

and yet that perticular cancelation of the show lasted for 2 weeks but it was the only show that canceld because of covid. other shows cancaled for 1 week but still awarded a win for that week. you also have the time when The show changed it's criteria just before DC's cb and then changed it back the very next day after DC was done promoting.

[@ayushj6216]

I do agree with BTS since they have the highest wins in the history with more than 150 wins. But Blackpink ain't even in the top ten list of the wins. Groups such as Exo, Twice, Girls Generation, Big Bang, Red Velvet and Gfriend are in the top list after BTS.

[@devilsscowcroft419]

I still got so in awe when I remember it was only two months between Minx to Dreamcatcher, that isn't a lot of time for really anything. The girls were probably stressed to high hell and back, but still they kicked it out of the park and still are.

[@Brickerbrack]

That said, there was probably a lot of work done _before_ the announcement; there was a huge gap between Love Shake promos and that announcement, where I don't think they had that much activity aside from the odd busking etc. I don't know when the Dreamcatcher idea kicked in, but they were probably working on it for a while before they said anything.

[@devilsscowcroft419]

@@Brickerbrack From what the video shared and what I have found in my own time in stanning them and following for years, it sounds like it only really started to form after Happyface was fully sure to end Minx and went on to the idea of Dreamcatcher (No idea where the dreamcatcher idea came from myself, probably wont get to know at this point) From what I have seen around and what the girls is that THEY truly only had two months to get the dance and singing of this new style down, which is what I was talking about mainly. I have no doubt that Happyface pulled had things on the side that they thought would work with this new idea and used it for them, like a tune that didn't fit into one of their other groups and used it for DC which probably saved time as well as the fact the girls (Besides Handong and Gahyeon) were trained fully and already did a few lives and music videos so that probably helped A LOT.

[@Black3ight]

@@Brickerbrack the Minx members got to know Handong and Gahyeon around August 2016. Yoohyeon had reviewed Gahyeon's Love Shake performance earlier in 2016 but around August is when they got to know them. There is a Minx video where Jiu is showing us the members when they are scattered around at the company. When she finds Yoohyeon, Yoohyeon is learning chineese(which is speculated to be because Handong is soon joining. this is just a speculation though)

[@Brickerbrack]

@@Black3ight August sounds about right, considering Dongie and Gahyeon apparently trained for six months... 🙂August would be five months, plus presumably they'd have had some solo training first.

[@Black3ight]

@@Brickerbrack Handong was a trainee for 5 months before she debuted. with Gahyeon it's not stated when exactly she joined DCC but it was in eary 2016 atleast.

[@timfarrell4080]

Just a quick comment from a huge Dreamcatcher fan. I think their appeal will always be far greater in the world outside of South Korea. Just like you and all the reactors I have seen in the last year or two they are growing in popularity around the world. Also the biggest reason of their success lies not just in their incredible talent, but in finding the talent of writers and producers Leez and Olounder. Together they are an unstoppable force and I think the new album in April will shatter all of their previous sales. Show wins are nice and provide a feeling of acceptance and accomplishment in one’s own country, but for all of us outside of Korea they are perfect and amazing just the way they are with or without a “show” win.

[@foxxygoupil]

Can we have a round of applause for Leez and Olounder who are music producer geniuses please ?

[@Brickerbrack]

@@foxxygoupil 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

[@zerashk]

I sure hope mera will make a part two of this Dreamcatcher story, her edits are top notch. After Deja Vu, Dreamcatcher were doing really well actually. Sales increased steadily and reached 210K sales for 2021 compared to 65K for 2019. More appearance on variety show. An actual anime opening song Eclipse. Perfume mist line. Dreamcatcher very own 10 episode variety show. The only South Korean artist invited to Primavera Sound rock festival. I'd like to say their current achievement and reputation far preceded their win. Although having a win is always a win. Survive and thrive in a harsh enviroment is a bigget win IMO. Introducing Dreamcatcher with their staff by insomnicsy would be a good watch.

[@scttschlz]

Unfortunately, it seems unlikely that she'll ever touch Dreamcatcher again. Apparently, InSomnia has gotten large enough that some people in the fandom gave her shit for not reacting to Boca, and she expressed that she wanted nothing to do with us thereafter. The fandom seemed so welcoming and inclusive to me, but inevitably as groups grow, a few toxic people will join.

[@zerashk]

@@scttschlz What a bummer 😅 on the latter point, yes it's inevitable. Dreamcatcher fighting 🤘

[@DavidWeinehall]

@@scttschlz She did another DC video, just not a part two, because she doesn't want to talk about the Kpop industry; instead she reviewed all their music videos.

[@Lemon-x-]

Q: What qualifies as a win? A: Basically in kpop there are music shows that run every week (Inkigayo, music bank, Music Core, The Show etc.) each on a different day of the week. Kpop groups will go to these shows to perform their latest comeback/song live in front of a small audience and broadcasted live, it's essentially another form of advertising as some people will just watch the show to see what new music is out or will watch for their favourite group but see other groups by proxy and might fall into that fandom too. At the end of each one of these shows they will announce a winner based on certain criteria such as digital points (how well the song does on charts), album sales, SNS (MV views on youtube), Broadcast score (How many times the song is performed on a broadcast or played on the network) and finally live vote (fans get to vote for their group via an app). Each of the criteria holds a different weight with digital points being the most important. If you get 1st place on any of these music shows then it's considered a "win" Hope I explained it well

[@dreamywhales]

They debuted 2014, had a comeback in 2015 and then started working on DC in mid 2016, finally announcing the redebut at the end of 2016. Then Dream Catcher debuted January 2017. So there actually was quite a bit of time between Minx's debut and DC's. When groups debut they get invited to a lot more stuff because its exciting when a new group debuts. Redebuting with something new rather than trying hard to get visibility for another comeback for a tiny group was the wiser choice. It ensured that they'd get more visibility.

[@kpopx21xtim]

For disbandment: Generally a lot of groups and companies have whats called a "7 year curse" usually when groups have been together for 7 years, they disband (since thats usually a general length of their contracts, until they decide to resign their contracts), groups that have overcome the 7 year curse are Apink, SNSD (Girls Generation), EXO, Shinee, ... basically any group that has been around longer than 7 years. Other ways to disband comes from if the members have a negative impression over their company and/or members. For the "wins" on music shows: Groups promote their songs on music shows (Mnet Mcountdown, KBS Music Bank, SBS Inkigayo, MBC Music Core, The Show, Show Champion), and they are practically competing against the other groups that promote their song on the same show, and the wins are significant because it means they are the most popular group with the most popular song for the week or month. The votes to win 1st place, i believe, comes from their MV views, streams from any streaming app (like spotify, apple music, etc), not sure exactly so dont quote me on those.

[@ttstwist3253]

From what I remember of an interview back when the redebued, Jiu mentioned how, when they were setting up to redebue, that they didn't want to do a cute concept again and risking falling into the same hole MINX did. The suggestion of showing a darker side was brought up. The idea of being nightmares stuck out. The group even had a multitude of ways to introduce themselves. From out right screaming to a jump scare like boo! Eventually settling on blowing a kiss and saying "Dream of me" in korean. So to answer the question more directly, the cutesy concept was a standard for young girl groups, and originally Dreamcatcher may have also been heading in that direction. Someone suggested doing something a darker concept to help them stand out.

[@_vkos_]

Glad you enjoyed the video! Like I said before, this is sort of a rite of passage for InSomnia. You can't help but respect them for being as committed as they have been to their concept and identity in the face of such adversity. More on that in a moment. In regards to Mixnine, I can't say that I know exactly how those sorts of shows work with individuals that are already part of a group, but reality competition shows had existed for a bit. Twice was formed from one of those shows called "Sixteen". Eight girls were selected. Momo actually got eliminated, but was brought in after the fact. Anyway, yeah. I'm sure someone else will fill you in on the inner workings of Mixnine's format. I actually watched a compilation video of all the scenes with them in Mixnine and it really did seem like they all had a spotlight moment on and/or off the stage. You really got to see JiU's leadership qualities come into play. (Totally not biased. 👀) Mera isn't wrong, they all did really well. In regards to "What", the song didn't flop necessarily. It just doesn't get as much love as the other title tracks. The album as a whole definitely didn't flop. It's actually 🔥🔥🔥. 😂 In regards to the company not giving up on the girls, obviously I don't know exactly what the HappyFace CEOs and whoever else were thinking, but I remember reading that HappyFace pretty much said that they didn't blame the girls for Minx's failure. The failure seemed to be a lot of shitty timing and poor planning. The girls did everything they needed to and did it well, in my opinion. My hope is that, knowing it wasn't any fault of the girls, HappyFace had a bit of a guilty conscience about the situation. There were blatant business reasons, I'm sure, but yeah. Now, why did they choose to go with the incredibly risky concept and sound after an immediate failure and disbandment? I have no idea. On the surface, it does kind of seem like they just said, "Fuck it. Let's make some people uncomfortable." 😂 In all seriousness though, it does come off as a last-ditch effort, for sure. I think that's one reason the girls committed to the concept so damn hard. They knew they weren't going to keep getting second chances. I think everyone knew that and I think that's the reason everyone involved with the Dreamcatcher project has the bond that they now do with each other. Every cog in the Dreamcatcher machine puts all of their effort into making it work. Everyone respects the other's role and trusts them to do it well. The dedication to that common goal, I believe, is why they have that "family relationship" there. Idk. Watching all of the behind the scenes and personality content, the relationship the girls have to each other and with their staff feels so sincere and special. I don't think I've seem something quite like that in my K-pop journey yet. Admittedly, I'm still a bit of a baby too. Hasn't been a full year yet. Point being, I didn't want to like a group this damn much, but I do and I have no regrets. 😂 As always, thanks for the Dreamcatcher love and reactions!

[@azaleaaster8719]

Basically, there are many survival shows (e.g. the Produce series, Girls Planet 999, etc...) where both trainees and debuted idols from small companies can participate. These participants do it to grab attention, which otherwise would be hard for small companies. These kind of groups are temporary; so, the winners can return to their original groups after a certain period of time. Mix9 is like this. There are also survival show that create permanent groups. But they generally allow either 1: trainees that are currently unaffiliated with any company; so they will end up signing with the host company after earning a spot (e.g. Loud). 2: Or allows only the trainees from their own company ( Stray Kids (the show), Sixteen, etc...). In SuperM case, they are just a unit / group made by using members of different groups under the same company (SM) that occasionally makes a comeback. There is no scheduling conflict or profit division conflict because they are all managed by the same company. //////////// Queendom / Kingdom series is very different from other survival shows involved idols. It isn't made to create new groups. So, individuals don't compete to get a spot. Generally, in Queendom and Kingdom, all the participants are either idol groups or soloists that were in popular idol groups (so, they all have already debuted as professional idols). It is mostly a group competition (soloist, as well as the other groups, can use backup dancers to make up for the lack of numbers). Meanwhile, other idol survival shows are individual competition. Participants are all currently popular groups, groups that were popular in the past, or raising groups [and also soloists in Queendom's case] are asked by Mnet's (the channel it will happen) producer to participate in it. Mnet made the company of the artist negotiate about it. If the company (and the group) agrees, they will take part in Queendom / Kingdom. [though, there were info from insiders that Mnet tried to threaten some groups to join Kingdom; Monsta X refused to go here, so both Monsta X and their juniors were banned from Mcountdown (Mnet music shows, where groups perform & are eligible for wins); but this doesn't apply for all groups. Groups might be able to refuse without consequences depending on their relationship with Mnet. Stray Kids was in Kingdom. And there where articles that Mnet was in talk with Itzy for Queendom 2. But Itzy didn't participate, and JYP has currently no issue with Mnet]. Returning back to what I was saying, in Queendom / Kingdom, the participants have a lot more creative control over their performances. Moreover, differently from the other idol survival shows, winning the program isn't the most important thing because the benefit of the winner isn't something their company cannot afford. The real objective is exposure and gaining more fans. Since there are only 6 groups / 5 groups + soloist. There is enough screen time for every group / soloist for the viewers to learn who they are / what kind of group or soloist they are. Meanwhile, Road to Kingdom's participants are either groups decent popularity (but nowhere near Queendom / Kingdom). They are either from the same company as popular groups, or have semi-hits, or have a relatively big fanbase (less than Kingdom's ones), or are Mnet's own group (Yep. To1 took part on it before even officially debuting). They also compete in groups. But differently from QD & KD, they are more at risk of elimination [KD didn't have any elimination rule. QD has the rule that a group will be eliminated if they get last place 2 times consecutively; it never happened in QD so far]. RTK groups are actually fighting to get a spot in Kingdom (The Boyz won RTK, so they were able to compete in Kingdom against bigger groups]. I hope this clears it up.

[@mrjackpots1326]

Most Kpop groups buy their songs from various songwriters so they're production is only limited by the wealth of their company. Dreamcatcher's songs are almost all written and composed by Leez and Ollounder, two musician/producers who used to be known as Super Bomb. So the number of songs Dreamcatcher puts out is dependent on the ablities of those two guys. No pressure.

[@GLawSomnia]

And those two never disappoint

[@iQiLefty]

Thank you for reacting to this particular video. Mera's narration is really clear. It's because of this video that whatever respect I had for the group and the company increased further. Love your reactions by the way 🥰

[@ReturnToSenderz]

In the Korean market, a music show win is similar to topping the Billboard charts or being a NYT bestseller. A win isn’t necessary for a group to be financially successful, but it does show a level of domestic popularity and recognition as an artist that should be taken seriously. Each show has their own rubrics, but they tend to factor in actual sales, digital views, and “expert preferences” (which I assume is based on what the show’s execs like) to determine who comes out in top.

[@momomomo__]

First of all, thank you for reacting to the video. Mera has a way of narration that's unlike anyone else on kpop youtube and she manages to write the most beautiful descriptions for songs, so what you talked about with the script is really her trademark. Now to the kpop noobie questions: When it comes to disbandment, there's a lot of reasons why it could happen. Firstly, and the most common, it's the lack of success of a group. A company has a limited amount of money to invest in training the trainees, housing them, as well as all the costs of producing music, the mvs, styling the idols, sending them on shows, whether they are music shows, for them to promote music, or on variety shows, to promote the idols as people. The group has to make back a part of the money, so the company can justify keeping the group up without losing money. Given the amount of groups that exist out there, the market is tough, so a lot of groups go unnoticed and end up disbanding because they couldn't make back the money necessary to keep going. It's a self fulfilling cycle, in the sense that, the less money a group makes, the less the company will invest in them, which will lead to people not knowing about the group, or dropping them, bringing in less money in the next comeback and it'll lead to disbandment. The other big reason is the contracts. The groups sign standard 7 year contracts, and during those years, the idols promote with the group and individually sometimes. When those contracts expire, the idols can renew the contract or not. Given the way a lot of companies treat idols, a lot of them choose not to renew, which usualy leads to either member losses or full on disbandment, if too many leave the company. Some idols also chose not to renew because they wanna go for solo careers or other types of entertainment. Either way, with smaller groups, disbandment is a big fear for fans and usually, their first win on a music show kinda shows the company that the group is good enough to invest in and it shows fans that the group is somewhat permanent. Now, about music shows. There are 5 big music shows that are aired weekly and companies pay a certain fee so that they groups can perform on them and promote their comebacks. Some of the groups that perform on that show will be nominated to win an award for that week, and that award is given based on voting from the fans through the appropriate app, music video views (which is why streaming is an insane thing in kpop, it's the best way to help the group win for people who can't pay to cast votes) and "expert preferences", aka, the way to rig the show. The shows happen weekly, so it's the best place for groups to get a first win, because for a period of imagine 15 days, they can perform 11 times on those shows, having 11 chances to get a win. If they do win, it shows that enough people voted and streamed, as well that the industry is somewhat welcoming to the group, with the expert preferences category, so it kinda gives the company a look at how grouos are, popularity wise. They aren't big award shows, like the Grammy's, although those do happen as well, and they're known as end of the year shows, like MAMA, Golden Disk Awards, etc, but those are usually the next step when you've gotten enough recognition through music shows and other promotions. They have huge performances by the nominated groups, sometimes with huge set pieces, different versions of their songs, dance breaks, all that. Bigger groups have hundreds of music show wins, so they aren't as big of a deal to those groups, but for smaller groups performing and winning on them can really put them on the map and give the company a sing to keep investing in them. Queendom, the first instalment of Kingdom, was meant to give smaller groups a chance to put on performances like they would in the big award shows, but can't because they aren't big enough to be nominated. Over time it turned into a popularity contest, but the original goal was to give groups a chance to show that they are good enough to put on incredible performances if they're given the chance. Lastly, Mixnine is a survival show more like Produce 101, Produce 48, Girls Panet 999, etc. In shows like Kingdom, groups go as a unit to show what they're all about and put themselves out there, but in shows like Mixnine, usually the company sends a bunch of trainees or idols who are already in groups, so they can show them as individuals and promote the group by association. At the end of these shows, they usually form a group with the highest ranking participants, which is temporary. They have a fairly small contract and after it ends, they go back to promoting with their original groups, if they've already debuted, and bring them a new audience, or go back to training and hope that they got popular enough that the company debuts them in a group or solo.

[@loreleileong4071]

A "win" is a marketing gimmerick generate by the industry to enable them to generate revenue. In the grander scheme of things, a win does not really matter much other than perhaps providing some sort of "recognition" to the group members for their hard work. As for Happyface not giving up on the members, I guess it is the company credit that they really believe in their artist talent (they are actually a relatively small company if you remove the outliers and from what I observe, one that actually treat their signed artist with respect and care).

[@KS-di4bn]

From my understanding, MIXNINE's supposed to be a bit like the produce series where members compete individually in order to get into the debut group. They'll promote under that new group formed from that survival show for a set period of time (usually pretty short, generally 1 or 2 years) and after that they're resume their normal promotions. MIXNINE's strange concept was just that they'd simultaneously form a girl group and a boy group, then they'd select one of the groups to debut.

[@RoseForEverafter]

Dreamcatcher’s concept was definitely risky! Rock isn’t a super popular genre in Korea, but luckily the higher powers of the company were convinced that the girls were too talented for Minx’s failure to be the end and decided to take the chance. Because for most people, if their group had failed to make their mark, that would have been it-their career as an idol would be over before it even started. But the girls seem to have a really close, familial relationship with their CEO and other people in the company-the CEO’s wife is actually their manager. So I do believe they fought for the girls to be able to have their second change. And I think they also fought for them to be treated better, because the girls were pretty uncomfortable with Minx’s concept. If you watch their MVs and keep in mind that Dami and Yoohyeon were only 17, the prevalence of up-close butt shots gets pretty weird. So the CEO also got Happyface a lot more independence from its parent company and really changed and improved the direction of the group’s management. You should *definitely* look up the full performance of Dami’s My Number group from Mixnine. It’s a lot and she really shines!!! Look up a fancam or performance video though because the official Mixnine broadcast didn’t actually show the whole song. JiU’s Boombayah group is another great one! So, yes, Mixnine was aiming to create a super group. Aside from the competition being girls vs boys, they were competing as individuals, not teams. It wasn’t even just the companies sending certain representatives from their groups either-all seven of the girls auditioned, but only JiU, Yoohyeon, Siyeon, and Dami were selected by the judges to join the show. Then they were ranked into a bunch of different “classes” and those classes changed each episode based on their performances. The goal was to end up ranked in the top 9, because in the end the top 9 girls and the top 9 guys would compete against each other, and whoever won that final competition would get funded to debut as a super group. Which is where things fell apart, as Mera said, because the winning boys’ group never got the debut they were promised. Another thing about Mixnine that was really irking for fans was that Mixnine heavily promoted Dreamcatcher’s involvement as part of the draw for the show, because they’re such a unique group. But when the show actually premiered, the girls barely got any screentime. Their auditions weren’t even shown, even though the boys’ group from Happyface did get theirs aired. Which was also part of a larger trend of the female contestants not getting as much air time and the boys being treated preferably. The entirety of Mixnine is actually on KZbin, if youre interested in watching! It’s kind of worth it just to really understand all the criticisms. A “win” in kpop is pretty similar to a win for music/film here, in that there are several organizations who hold competitions and bestow awards. Some are a bigger deal than others, like how for movies there’s ✨The Academy Awards✨ and ✨The Golden Globes✨and then there’s not-quite-as-significant-but-still-official ones like the Saturn Awards for sci-fi/fantasy and the Screen Actors’ Guild Awards. Anyway, it’s a REALLY big deal for a kpop group to get a win. Groups are normally considered rookies until they get a win-and in most companies, if the group doesn’t get a win within a few years, the group is considered a failure and disbanded. So it’s a pretty big deal that Dreamcatcher is still going strong with a growing fan base and strong support from Happyface even though they still haven’t had a win after four years. The good thing is that because they’ve got so much love from fans and their company is so supportive of their success, the girls seem to not care too much about it or consider it a necessary milestone for their success. Still, they are all really hoping that this will be the year it finally happens. *Anyway* about the rigging…there are a couple theories. Like Mera said, Dreamcatcher is a huge deviation from normal girl groups, which are normally very pigeonholed into either a cute or sexy concept. They’re becoming very influential and other new girl groups are starting to follow their lead. And there could very well be people in the industry who don’t like that rebellion. The *other* theory has to do with the powers behind The Show, which include JYP Management-as in, the same company that ran Mixnine and that Happyface subsequently sued over what happened. So some say the sketchiness was due to JYP still holding a grudge and intentionally sabotaging DC’s win because of it. Anyway, that was a lot, but that’s all I know regarding the stuff in the video! And most of it comes from watching other videos, so I’m sorry if any of it is incorrect and I’m sure others who were actually in the fandom when this shit went down can offer corrections/more explanations. I can’t waaaaait for you to check out Red Sun 😍 it’s SO GOOD! Dami’s rap is amazing and Sua choreographed the whole dance!

[@zuiia]

This always is a great video to get an overview about the things Dreamcatcher went through, even if the alledged part has since been dissproven. The ammount of talent these seven girls have and the trust between them and their company is really something you rarely see in the industry. The first win is a really big deal in the industry, and it shows time and time again that it would mean the world to our girls if they would get one. Unfortunately, as mera has pointed out, Dreamcatcher seems to attract all things that could go wrong with it, from cancled shows, to shows completly revamping their voting system when Dreamcatcher is having a comeback... I definitely agree that there are some other companies that were invested into keeping "innovative" groups like Dreamcatcher out of the mainstream and stick to the same concepts over and over. Luckily we have more grpups now picking up the rock and metal influences, so here is to hoping that our girls finally get the win they deserve so so much with their upcoming comeback!

[@kipzonderkop7061]

I was just wondering, ur saying "the alledged part has since been dissproven", I never knew... Could you explain to me what u know/link me to where you found what you know? I have done my own research and it seemed like most if not all of what has been said in mera's video was indeed correct... Understand that this all is just because I'm currious, I don't say I do not believe you or anything like that, I'm just currious what's the true story in that case :D.

[@zuiia]

@@kipzonderkop7061 Hey, no problem. As far as I remember most of that stems from conversations on twitter with fans from korea, but I can try to look for more concrete sources and link them here later. Basically the fans at the time assumed some wrong streaming/youtube numbers since there was some confusion about what exact time period would be counted. This led to the impression that there would have to be a negative "expert preference" score to reach the final numbers. With the correct time period it was recalculated to the best of the fans ability a lot later and it seems like their numbers were not in the negative. Now this still leaves us with a 0 from "expert preferences" while the other groups both got the full points, which still points to a lot of shady stuff going on, but within the rules of the show. While I understand that we as fans get very upset about this, and try to fit Dreamcatcher in a sort of underdog who has to fight against the industry perspective, I feel like hanging on to this sort of narrative undermines a lot of the success the group had, and will have. Not because the industry will suddenly allow them to, but because they have worked extremly hard every single comeback at bringing us the best music possible. I hope this helps and feel free to reply in case you want me to clarify some parts more :D

[@kipzonderkop7061]

@@zuiia Thanks a lot for reacting (and reacting this fast) to my comment!! If the time period that was chosen was wrong for the "fan counts" that explains alot. I'm still (obviously) a bit upset about the 0 points from expert preferences like you also mentioned in your comment. But your explanation clears up alot! If you are able to link anything I would greatly appreciate it but don't put too much effort into it, your help is already greatly appreciated! Again thanks alot and have a nice day!

[@hanng1242]

1. Concerning debut and re-debut. Like all entertainment industries, Kpop chases trends, and Minx's concept was very much part of the trend. This is why, for example, we are getting so many "girl crush" concepts right now. To stand out in such a market, a group needs one of two things: (1) Be from one of the Big3/Big4, in which case the group will succeed unless they or their company seriously screw something up, or (2) have a breakout hit or viral event. For example, the video mentioned Gfriend (which you should definitely check out), but although their debut, "Glass Bead," was successful, they did not become really popular until the video of them slipping all over the stage performing "Me Gustas Tu" in the rain and powering through it went viral. Similarly, the group EXID was on the cusp of disbandment until a fan cam of Hani during a performance of "Up and Down" went viral and resurrected their careers. Rock is not all that popular in Korea, so switching to a dark theme with rock influences was a brilliant move by Happyface (they saw the writing on the wall, stopped digging, and went in a radically new direction to stand out). Even today, Dreamcatcher is still more popular in the West (and Japan) than in Korea. 2. Concerning disbandment. The standard Kpop contract between aspiring idol and the company lasts for 7 years (a number established by law after TVXQ sued SM to get out of their 13-year "slave contract" in 2009). The clock starts when the group debuts; prior to this, the aspiring idol is under contract with the company as a "trainee." During this time, the company provides housing, training in singing, dancing, languages and other entertainment skills, as well as a (very) small allowance for living expenses. During this time, the company basically owns the idol, who spends his/her time practicing, going to school if still a minor, and sleeping a little bit. After the 7-year contract period is up, then the individual members re-negotiate their respective contracts with the company. If everyone (or if enough of the group) renews AND the company wants the group to continue, the group continues. If not, the group disbands. When it comes to girl groups, the "7-year curse" exists because the industry prioritizes youth. As the idols get close to 30 years old, they are usually considered too old and the company would rather debut a new, younger group. Very few groups survive this "curse." Right now, I think only group currently active that has weathered it is Apink. SNSD, the "Nation's Girl Group" of the 2nd generation, is theoretically still together, but half of their members have switched to different companies, and they have yet to come back with all eight members. Boy groups aren't affected by age in the same way, but they do have to deal with the 2-year hiatus due to Korea's mandatory military service. During this hiatus, the group is at risk of being forgotten as the public moves onto new boy groups in while their old favorites are out serving their country. Right now, the members of 2nd Gen's "Kings of Kpop," Bigbang, have finished their military service and are due to come back soon, so we will see. Of course, a group may disband early if it is unsuccessful. 2a. On making money. While the idols are in their trainee days, they are accumulating debt since the money to pay for all the training is actually a loan given to the idol. Everything the idol makes after debut goes towards paying back the loan first before the idols make any money. If the company cuts the idol or if the contract runs its course without turning a profit, the company cancels the remaining debt, but if the idol wants out, the company will seek the remaining sum. This is what keeps many groups together for the period of the contract even if the idols are unhappy - they cannot afford to repay the average $1 million dollars it takes to train up an idol to be ready for debut. When it comes to how idols make money, as well as how the para-social relationship between idol and fan makes this possible, I suggest checking out this essay by Kpopalypse: kpopalypse.com/2016/02/20/visual-dreams-how-k-pop-markets-the-idol-not-the-music/ 3. Music survival programs. The train-wreck that was Mixnine was a program designed to create a project group. The contestants who win are basically loaned to whoever is making the project group for the period of the project. The most famous group was IOI, which was formed from the show Produce 101, and that group lasted (by design) one year. The 11 members (well, 10 of them) went back to their respective companies and are part of those companies' groups (WJSN, gugudan, Pristin) or are soloists (Chungha, Somi). Produce 101 season 2 formed a boy group called WannaOne, and the serius has continued with Produce 48. Queendom and Kingdom are a bit different. These shows are not designed to form a project group, but are more like a straight up competition. The novelty of Queendom and Kingdom is that they involve groups, rather than individuals, which is more common. If you want to watch these sorts of programs, I suggest going back to 2012 and watching K-Pop Star seasons 1 and 2. 4. Music Show wins. When we talk about a "win" for an idol group, we are talking about the result of the weekly music shows on Korean TV, rather than something like the Grammy's. There are three big Korean TV networks, and each has their own show. KBS has Music Bank, SBS has Inkigayo and MBC has Music Core. The way the winner is determined is a bit obtuse (as you saw from the video), but if a group comes in first in all three shows for the week, it is called an "all-kill." A group is considered to be "promoting" while they are appearing on the shows. If you want to watch these shows, all three networks have KZbin channels with clips, but if you also like K-dramas or Korean variety shows, the big 3 TV networks have a joint project streaming service with English subtitles for everything called KOCOWA that you might want to check out.

[@shortrader]

so from a somnia who lived through that episode, i will say this: the YT data was off, they used the wrong period to compute the data. however, using the published data within the proper time span and back calculating, you get an expert score around 300sh (not negative) give and take +/- 50 while the others got 1500. and by that they lost by 11. so yes, i still believe that... anyway... two things that i hated about the S#$% show was 1) they never released the expert numbers which would've easily dismissed the conspiracy (i think i know why) and 2) as noted here the release of the tweets were very mean... back then i couldn't believe what i saw lol... but IIWII... we have moved on... i really do hope we move on, cuz dwelling on this has given bad reps for our fandom (but never forget!!)

[@Brainreaver79]

i am pretty sure they got a 0 for piri too.... and with how "suddenly" the shows with dreamcatcher comebacks are the only one affected by "danger through covid" so that they didnt count the sucessfull week but the week after that... or they suddenly change which votes count for the dc comeback... so even if they didnt bs everyone with the deja vu comeback.. they did if in the previous one and since then for every other comeback

[@shortrader]

@@Brainreaver79 the voting rule changes have been entertaining to say the least lol

[@S0LAVELLANHELL]

it was definitely rigged lmao. theres too many "coincidences" and all the passive aggressiveness from the show and the fact that that its happened MULTIPLE times now? these shows def have something against them

[@shortrader]

@@S0LAVELLANHELL i mean even for this CB, lots of shows are changing the voting apps and rules lol... it's not even funny anymore...

[@autumneagle]

Couple notes, Siyeon was in a rock band before Happyface and JiU has always been a fan of Babymetal (J Rock) so it can be assumed that the cute concept e never true to themselves whereas the more rock element is much more aligned with their true interest

[@Pya1234]

"Flop" how I hate that word. Anyway glad you enjoyed the video

[@നല്ലമലയാളം-ജ4ന]

Mera's videos are always a delight you should watch more of her videos in your own time especially the edits that she makes are my favorite

[@xujessikpopanalyst6030]

well, actually, as far as i know, MiNX was originally a replacement of their senior, DAL*SHABET, who is closer to their timeline to be ended, means to say, to be disbanded. MiNX and DAL*SHABET has this similarity in terms of genre and concepts, when DAL*SHABET debuted. (right before DAL*SHABET changes into a sexy concepts in the middle of their timeline career). but unfortunately, MiNX pull off 1st, before their senior DAL*SHABET disbanded. what a worst experience for a group to be a replacement.

[@spacemaster13]

Yaaayyy Dreamcatcher 💜💜

[@jay-7379]

All Insomnias by law hate Sbs The Show. It was such a blatant sabotage to Dreamcatcher. I remember being so pissed after the controversy. All because DC are unconcenvential from other groups. Makes me even more mad since to this day they haven't gotten their first win yet.

[@alexgrey1956]

new and eternal fans, credit to the person who wrote this. Dreamcatcher was formerly known as Minx. Minx debuted on September 2014. Minx had five members (JiU, SuA, Siyeon, Yooheyon, Dami) and their concept was completely opposite of Dreamcatcher's concept (the mainstream cutesy/sexier type concept). But they couldn't do very well as Minx that time (Minx songs were good, the girls worked very hard but they couldn't standout much because the company was small and there were way too many groups doing this concept) that's why they re debuted as Dreamcatcher (with 2 more members: Handong and Gaheyon) on 13 January 2017 with Dark/bold concept and Jpop inspired rock sound. (bonus: Minx fandom name was VitaminX) ☞Dreamcatcher's Fandom name is 'InSomnia'. In (English word)+ Somnia (Latin word which means dreams)= In Dreams The idea behind this name is Dreamcatcher will be with their fans in their dreams forever ☞"Welcome to the Dream world" is a line from their song 'Goodnight' with which InSomnias welcome new fans or new people who like DC'S songs.. ☞Don't forget to check out their latest album (Summer Holiday): BEcause (title), Airplane, whistle, Alldaylong, A heart of sunflower. Here's some other songs recommendations as starter: ☞title tracks: chase me (debut), what, piri, scream (it's the prequel of boca), boca (prequel of odd eye), odd eye ☞b-sides: trap, silent night, red sun, tension, july 7th, break the wall, wind blows ☞japanese: breaking out, no more, endless night, my way, don't light my fire ☞solos: paradise (Siyeon), once upon a time (Dami), the first light of dawn (Handong), butterfly (Dami) ☞covers/special clips: secret love song (Yooheyon), bang bang bang, faded (Siyeon), havana (Dami and SuA), There's nothing holding me back, Honesty (JiU) ☞And I highly recommend you to watch 'Dodging disbandment and other extreme sports: A history of Dreamcatcher' from 'mera' channel to know the history of Dreamcatcher. You can check out the Dreamcatcher guide from 'kraayjay' channel, it's really good. Insomnicsy, deuxae, shaplay e.t.c channels are recommended for vlive translations and funny DC contents

[@anyzhingdeukae]

MixNine it's like Produce series (Produce 101, produce 48, produce x 101). If you haven't heard Produce series. Might you ever heard about the group that debuted after this survival (Produce series) : IOI, Iz*one, wannaone. This show kind of like trainee from many agency who joining survival show and against each other with their talent. and after their debut, they have short contract with the producers which is the producers of survival show. While SuperM is grouped with member who have debuted without through a survival show.

[@callsins3413]

a win is whos fandom works hardest in buying album digital and physical,, twitter mention, youtube views,, melon views, etc so that win is little unfair popularity over quality whoever has a big fandom will surely win

[@alexgrey1956]

a great power will Rise , with the Bloom of the cherry blossom 🌸 , " they are More and Everything " , They are the Legendary Dreamcatcher

[@johnfranklin5575]

Lauren check out their second album Apocolypse and the teasers as well

[@alexgrey1956]

Siyeon is the Most Powerful Vocalist ever to Exist in this World , Her Vocal Reach my Soul , she is more than Human , she is a Legendary Dreamcatcher

[@Zayneb111_]

It is probably that the show actually did that. Also when they take pics when they are promoting you can see that gahyeon NEVER smiles

[@TJ_Sind2000]

let's not forget the masterfully edited dreamcatcher poster they made lmao

[@Zayneb111_]

@@TJ_Sind2000 what which one😭

[@hby2321]

thanks for your reaction~

[@ForestSen]

Since this is an old video not including any of their recent success DC has done way more then anyone in the industry thought they would. They still don’t have their first win. The ShitShow fucked them over again on their first win (they claim covid but it only happened when DC was going to be up for a win). They’ve won awards around the world. JiU became Forbes #1 most beautiful woman (I think in Korea but can’t remember the exact title. Handong got it the next year or year after). And now they have become the very first kpop act both boy and girl groups to be invited to perform at Primvera music festival in Spain. It’s a freakin huge festival and they got invited. It’s a freakin huge deal they are the only kpop act in the festival.

[@Brickerbrack]

I think Handong's Forbes win was the same year, but it was for the best K-pop idol from overseas.

[@p.HFerreira]

So, this is probably going to be a long comment, so no blames if you decide not to read it all. Why groups disband? There is various reasons. From members simply deciding not to renewal their contracts with their labels to scandals making long term goals hard to accomplish. For groupsfrom mid label companies like Dreamcatcher or even some big 3 girls groups, most of the time it's due to two reasons: the first is stale growth. Kpop is a industry that as you stated yourself is very fast paced. Their main target domestically is teens in general, but especially girls. As groups get older, while their fanbase may stay loyal, it's much harder from the connect anymore with teenager audiences, so companies decide it's best to put their resources in younger groups (and I say young, we are seeing 14 years old girls debuting alot recently) who can gather new audiences. This is the main reason for the death of girlgroups through the known "seven years curse" that states that girl groups don't stay together more than 7 years, as it's usually when the contracts end, as I think by Korean law it's the max amount of years you can sign a idol member for. The second reason is financial sucess of any kind. Most groups aren't really money makers, so companies opt to move their resources fast if they don't sense any money to new things. Dreamcatchers re-debut is such an outlier because instead of simply discarding the members, their company rebranded their image trusting that what went wrong with Minx weren't the members, but the company strategy instead. Most companies don't have the same vision, and tend to disband groups in even the second year from debut.

[@p.HFerreira]

What are Produce Shows? Produce shows, also called Survival Shows, are most of times shows where the public votes bewtween a pool of contestants which ones will make it to a group. Some companies have enough trainees to make their own survival shows, such as Jyp with Twice, but the norm is that big tv companies ask mid size companies to authorize the participation of their trainees on a produce type Show. The final group, as its formed by trainees of multiple companies is by standard temporary, with a shell life of months to two years at best, as the mid-sized companies aren't simply going to handover their most talented trainees for free. Once the contract ends, these members go back to their companies. So if it's temporary anyway, Why do it? The answer is that these produce groups often get really huge, both in Korean and internationally, and the members of these groups gain absurd amount of popularity in the country very early on their careers, that can be used to push mid company groups to a higher competition level they would normally be at. The prime example right now is Wonyoung from Ive. She debuted as temporary group Izone's center at the age of 14. Right now she is known as one of Korea's "it girls", meaning whatever she participates in, it generates huge amount of general public and fandom attention. She can do a silly video and gain 2 million views in youtube in a week. When her post-Izone group, Ive, debuted, it became the best non-big 3 debut from a girlgroup of all time. It's for cases like Wonyoung that the companies accept the terms of produce shows. So if Dreamcatcher members did make it in the final group, they would be "loaned" to the Mixnine group. The thing is that mixnine was a messy show, and there was a low risk of any dc member debuting, not because of their talent, but because it was clear from the start that Mixnine final results would be the creation of a boy group, not a girl group.

[@p.HFerreira]

What are music Shows? Music shows are televisioned shows were artists, including kpop groups go promote their music. At the end, through a combination of metrics, one artist is awarded as the most popular artist of the week. That is a win. There are music shows on almost all days of the week. A music show is a symbol of career growth and a metric of sucess, especially domestically, in Korea. It can even be used as a metric to determine which groups get which opportunities by the industry in general. For most idols, it's a dream even getting one, as it shows their career is on the right path and is a reward for their hard work.

[@p.HFerreira]

Dreamcatcher still doesn't have any music show win. The main reason is low sucess on their own country Korea. They have there a stable and loyal fanbase, but the general public is not interested in their music or personality. Other reason is that as stated by Mera, Dc is a group where the coin of luck and bad luck flips it's coin daily. There is often an unplanned event that makes their chances of a first win impossible. There have been so many it's easier to just let it go. As for the Music show described on Mera's video, Dc wasn't actually awarded negative points. The numbers she used there were wrong for KZbin Views. However, it is a fact that the "expert score" rewarded them close to 0 points while maxing the category for the competition, determing basically the win as the difference was of only 11 points. Nowadays, no music show use the "expert score" anymore, instead they use a score called "broadcast", which rewards groups for participating in shows that are from the same broadcast channel company as the music show. Since this change, Dreamcatcher has never done anywhere as badly on that category as they did for Dejavu and before Deja vu. So why would the tv show score them so low on expert. I think the same as Mera, it was them simply punishing a group that does not have a large popularity in Korea, that has an alternative sound from the order and that the company had previously filled lawsuits against big dogs of the market. Since no one on Korea would bat a eye if they prejudiced, they just went and scored them low on the judge category.

[@vaishalijakhal9120]

i think as why happyface decide to took the risk and redebut them as dreamcatcher was, they actually believed in the members and there talent! when minx failed they blamed the concept and how it didnt showed members actual skills, hence they willingly took the risk for redebut. there CEO himself said that if DC again dont succeeds He will build a cucumber farm to support them! there company actually cares for them thats why i love DC and happyface 💜💜

[@defrankbeuckelaer]

thank you

[@blg988333]

yaaay it's here! :D

[@wintertaengoo]

The first thing you need to know about disbandment is that all kpop groups or idols have signed a contract with their companies and most of those contracts lasts about 7 years and if that expires, each individual members have a chance to renew their contracts with the company or leave the company thus leaving the group as well. Now for most cases, even one member leaving the group is a big hit for a kpop group mostly because fans will be upset and fans who favor the member who left will no longer support the group if ever they decide to continue without the one who left resulting in negative articles and perspectives about the group because a lot of "bullying" and "mistreatment" controversies tend to rise during times like these so this is one scenario that may cause a group to disband. Another one and the most common reason is if the agency just upfront decides to halt group activities and just disband the group due to lack of popularity and success. One thing to note though is in the world of KPop, it has been known that girl groups in general have kind of a short life span when compared to boy groups which is also why we have something called "The 7 year curse of girl groups" because for some reason girl groups tend to slowly lose popularity and eventually disband when they reach 6 or 7 years. Back in the 1900s and 2000s, girl groups weren't particulary successful and boy groups were pretty much the only ones people were paying attention to. Back in the days it was pretty much like an ocean of boy groups since they were the only ones who remained successful and the few girl groups who debut were shunned and bashed by a lot of boy group fans in general. This all changed when Wonder Girls and Girls' Generation debuted in 2007 and really changed the entire track of things, they changed the way the industry treats girl groups in general and broke the 7 year curse (they've been in the industry for 15 years now) and ever since Wonder Girls released "Tell Me" and Girls' Generation released "Gee" which was produced by the founders of Happyface as Mera stated in the video, the whole South Korea was caught in a trance and even elders and kids danced and sang along to the song and people started to pay more attention to girl groups and they just started to debut one after the other (2ne1, Kara, 4Minute, After School, etc) with each their own successes.

[@AmadanMath]

"or leave the company thus leaving the group as well" - Not necessarily. Wheein has since left RBW but she has not left Mamamoo. But usually, yes; to the point that Wheein's case is a rarity.

[@wintertaengoo]

@@AmadanMath Yep, there are cases that a member leaves the company but is still a member of the group like how Sooyoung, Tiffany and Seohyun left SM but they're still members of SNSD. I just wanted to give a scenario that's more likely to happen since some companies are against ideas like that.

[@wintertaengoo]

@@AmadanMaththanks for pointing it out though, I should've clarified that as well but I missed it somehow lol.

[@AmadanMath]

@@wintertaengoo Oh, way more likely, for sure.

[@ayushj6216]

@@AmadanMath But it's not forever. There is an clause in her contact. She can participate in Mamamoo activities only until 2023/2024. We don't know the future yet.

[@crystaltalia44]

Please react to Red Sun and Poison Love Special Clips

[@NJDMashups]

18:20 if I have to guess, it could have possibly been like SuperM or G.O.T The Beat where those groups had members of different groups. Dreamcatcher could have halted or slow down their projects so the members in Mixnine can focus on that.

[@ReturnToSenderz]

From what I’ve heard, Minx’s company took it as its own failure to market the group properly, and since the main problem with Minx was that the concept was too generic, the company went all-in on developing a new, unusual concept. Even now, it’s unusual for a Kpop group to release a rock-inspired title track, much less have a rock-inspired concept, so it was a huge risk for a mid-sized company to take that plunge.

[@henriquechapisco]

Hi Lauren, just like you, I also love Dreamcatcher so much. I would like to clarify some of your doubts. HappyFace didn't give up on girls because he always trusted his trainees. The company behaves like a big family. You can see this by watching the videos: Dreamcatcher with staff (by Insomncsy) kzbin.info/www/bejne/qoubf6lvrKqio7M In addition, the process of choosing the participants for MIX NINE was very painful for HappyFace. The show's producers were rude to the girls and boys at the company. At times during the program we saw the 2 CEOs crying as they watched the way they treated the participants. Especially when they criticized. videos about Dreamcatcher and HNB in MIX NINE: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mneUZZykjrKce5Y kzbin.info/www/bejne/eKWYlJx_e6qaqNk

[@alexgrey1956]

in 2014 a new Light arrived in this World 🌏 " MINX " , but this Light was sent into Darkness and Shadow. Then a Flame 🔥came out of Darkness and Shadow , This Flame 🔥 brought Both Light and Warmth to the World 🌏 for All Time ⏳ , This group was : above Human , above Royalty 👑 , More Magical ✨ and Powerful ⚡ than Wizards 🧙‍♂ , More Enchanting than Fairies , More Beautiful and Divine than Angels 😇 , with Hearts ❤ stronger than a Lion 🦁, with a Flame 🔥 and Fire 🔥 that Burns for all Time . They are Everything and More , They are the Guardians of Dreams , They are Dreamcatcher

[@autumneagle]

Well they won their first award a week ago and just got their second for Maison the other day

[@sinsumin659]

진짜 드림캐쳐 이정도로 성장한거 진짜 대단하다..

[@manda1804]

After watching this video, I find it ironic that Dreamcatcher's first win with Maison was on The Show😅 Either way, I'm so proud of them for their first win!!

[@laurenclaire]

Ha yeah kind of funny in hindsight!! Also, I can tell someone has been bingeing my videos 😜 thanks so much for watching!

[@manda1804]

@@laurenclaire Ahaha! I actually wondered if it was obvious 😅

[@_Runaway_L]

but "Maison" first win was on the Show Champion, the second win happened on The Show, and I'm very happy with the fact that the first win was not on the show

[@Ryuoinsomnia]

Their first win is on MBC Champion not the show....The show gave them their second win the following week

[@mrjackpots1326]

Dreamcatcher's concept was extremely risky in the Kpop world. Nobody had ever done anything like it before and given Korean's general dislike of rock music and the unease among young Korean males, the main demographic for Kpop girl groups, regarding women being presented as strong and fierce, the whole thing could have failed miserably. Dreamcatcher has always been kept afloat by international fans and their Korean fanbase is no match for other groups which is why they never win on music shows. Regarding Minx, Happyface CEO admitted it was the company's fault that Minx failed because of mismanagement, poor promotion, and lack of the kind of financial support that agencies like JYP and SM could give their groups. Minx was well received wherever they managed to get an audience together, but they spent way too much time and energy performing in malls, at racetracks, sports fields, public parks, and in small seedy music halls.

[@mrjackpots1326]

The result on The Show was clearly rigged, but the why of it is the part that can't be proved. The industry is very careful about not leaving any kind of trail when they do this sort of thing. Arrangements are made in friendly Korean barbecue restaurants, verbal promises are made and everyone keeps quiet. In general rigging these shows is not illegal under Korean law anyway. The producers of the survival shows Produce 101 and Idol School received jail time for rigging the votes on those shows, but they made a simple mistake. Because they were operating Kpop voting apps where fans can buy votes to use on various shows they came under the jurisdiction of Korean voting laws. They were convicted not for selling votes, but for selling votes that weren't counted. Basically music show awards only reflect the size of a groups fanbase and nothing else. It's like People's Choice awards so doesn't need to be taken seriously unless you want a room full of cheap acrylic trophies. One positive thing came out of this though, The Show no longer uses 'expert preferences' in voting since it's so obviously fake.

[@alexgrey1956]

the story of the Dreamcatcher. 7 beings were Born into this World, they would find each other through Destiny, and be bonded to each other Through Destiny for All Time. When 5 of them found each other they became Minx (18.09.2014), but Destiny had other plans for them and forces would separate them. But their Bond Through Destiny was so Strong that they would find each other throughout all Time , they Returned and Destiny brought the final 2 beings to the group. They became Guardians of Dreams, They became Dreamcatcher 🌙⚡⭐❤‍🔥 ✨🌹. Gifted , Blessed and Bonded Through Destiny for all Time. those who Discover Dreamcatcher, Become InSomnia and never Sleep on Dreamcatcher talent

[@belvedere6368]

From my understanding, the reason The Show would have tried to sabotage Dreamcatcher's score and thus stopping then from a win is, as mera said, due to the importance of convention in the k-pop industry and how unconventional Dreamcatcher is. Them getting a win would "legitimize" their place in the industry and open up a path for more "unconventional" groups to grow and thrive and further disrupt the closely controlled standards of the industry.

[@TJsO.O]

the avengers of kpop are not the super groups its actually loona, you should check them out!!

[@muhdzaidi3051]

Winning music show would open up more possibilities for the group to promote themselves. They could get invited into popular variety show...or a member even gets a shot at appearing in k-drama or movie

[@hivelsword]

This is just my opinion but rock is not NEARLY as appreciated in SK like it is in day, Japan. Okay, so that part is fact, not opinion. Actual KRock groups in SK are rare and most are considered “underground”. Dreamcatcher defies KPop norms with their inclusion of rock and metal inspired instrumentals. It’s no surprise that Dreamcatcher has fewer fans in their own country than most KPop groups. Everglow does conform to traditional KPop norms. Dreamcatcher doesn’t. My guess is someone didn’t want to validate DC with a win because of it. Or someone paid a lot of money to someone at The Show to get Everglow the win. Sucks no matter how you look at it.

[@maddyrevenge]

I would recommend taking the “robbed win” aspect of the video with a grain of salt. As far as I can tell the situation has been debunked (something to do with a miscalculation relating to dates/KZbin views) and most insomnia at this point don’t believe Dreamcatcher were legitimately robbed of a win. There is a smaller portion of the fanbase that is somewhat conspiratorial, believing the industry is out to.. idk.. suppress the groups success or something? Which I believe fed into the narrative and what lead to it becoming - at least initially - so quickly believed and accepted that a music show would be out to screw them over. I don’t think anyone could argue that the kpop industry isn’t corrupt in many ways, but you don’t need a conspiracy to explain why a girl group from a small company doing a rock concept may not be pulling in wins left and right. This video gets recommended for reactions so much, and it’s such a bummer that a large portion of it is dedicated to a negative topic that really - in hindsight - feels like a minuscule footnote in their history as a group. I honestly wish the creator would make a new video that includes all the footage prior to that section, with the addition of a continuation of their journey over the past few years. They’re a great storyteller and I think they would do it justice.

[@muhdzaidi3051]

I don't think the industry is actually against DC but it's the sound they're using. The 2005 incident left a huge bad impression to koreans about rock music up to this day

[@JanJan0019]

I can understand where you're coming from although im not sure about the first win thing being debunked but so many instances of shady behavior from music shows whenever Dreamcatcher promotes honestly doesn't seem like unfortunate coincidences no more which is why it became a thing for fans to say they have it against them. Like to name one during Odd eye era "the show" suddenly got rid of international voting and then put it again when Dreamcatcher stopped promoting, it don't seem like a coincidence.

[@mrjackpots1326]

Yeah, I wish she would update the video, but I think she's lost interest in the group now that they've achieved a lot of success and the drama level has dropped. The Kpop industry, like all Korean industry, is viciously cutthroat and often skates along the edge of the law. Even a huge company like Samsung falls off the edge sometimes. Vice Chairman (effectively Chairman) and company heir Lee Jaeyong did a little jail time for bribery last year. Was he a victim of infighting in the family or have I watched too many Kdramas? We'll never know because Samsung is a chaebol, the most secretive organizations in the world.

[@TJ_Sind2000]

I will have to disagree with you as there is many instances of mistreatment and "accidents" like the removal of international voting that happened just a tad bit too perfectly too often to be unfortunate coincidences, of course since such a thing can't ever be 100% proved I still respect your point of view and I understand how it can seem like it's being blown it out of proportion, but we can also make inferences based on extra dealt information, it's not that everyone is conspiring to suppress the group in particular but there is no denying that higher powers are dismissive of the concept and aren't welcoming it into the marketplace, and that relative middle management is using that as an excuse for what is practically bullying, the fact that they still get so many points regularly and their albums do very well in general regardless, proves that it isn't the case that korean people are completely against the rock multi-genre mixing, I really REALLY urge you to research about it more

[@Ryuoinsomnia]

I would have to totally disagree with u and felt that you are naive for thinking that the kpop industry is all sunshine and rainbows and there isnt any corruption. Perhaps u haven stanned a group from small company to experience one.

[@muhammadaskari5793]

Dreamcatcher got robbed so many times