Does 93 Octane Make More Power Than 87? Or Just A Scam?

On this episode we dive into a 5th gen Camaro SS that we put headers and an intake on, only to find out come dyno time that she had a tank full of pump 87 octane which begged the question, is 93 worth it or can you run 87 with no problems? Lets find out!
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[@sassyquin707]

Higher octane prevents pre-combustion in the cylinder due to high heat/compression (think performance cars). Next video: how painting your car red adds 10 hp!

[@Fluke2SS]

Don't forget the 2 foot spoiler, and 6" fart cannons too. Those to mods alone add about 60HP according to Civic owners if I recall correctly.

[@debraclancy2652]

@@Fluke2SS ...You Mean Subaru Owners, Rigght??

[@stevenr8606]

👍 add race stickers like the Honda boys do... to make their cars faster.

[@ss-zt7en]

Does it count if you buy it red?

[@BLACKRAIN390]

RED PAINT COST MORE, YOU WILL WEIGHT LESS WHEN YOU LEAVE THE STORE...SO YOUR RIGHT ON THE 10HP!!!👍🤣🍻

[@TheCamper83]

Many new ECU's can automatically adjust (tune) for power with better fuel. Higher Performance cars especially those with Turbos now make timing adjustments "on the fly"!

[@detroitrcwurks998]

Exactly

[@thesilentone4024]

He should have done 85 up to 100. So 85 87 89 91 93 and so on.

[@vermontvermont9292]

My 19 Civic 1.5t says a minimum of 87 octane. However they recommend premium. I find it odd since every turbo car I've owned in the past has always required premium. Once I'm tuned I'll have to run 91-93 anyway. I typically use 93 anyway, and I've noticed a difference switching back to 87 after weeks of running 93.

[@thecarse1447]

to shorten the story if you have a high compression performance engine use 93, if the engine can run on 87 running 93 will not add power you’re just spending more on fuel

[@BLACKRAIN390]

THANKS✊🤝👍

[@Humblescape]

Ty

[@indesideratu]

literally, it’s so funny when people flex “i buy 93 gas” 🤣

[@robertpoudrette4483]

But if you get the high compression engine tuned properly it can also run on 87 octane. Cool option when 93 octane is like 20% higher in price and you don't NEED max power all the time. Nice to know.

[@A1621994S]

Thanks now i can skip this video

[@prodrvr4185]

It's not about HP, it's bout pre-ignition/detonation.

[@CJColvin]

Exactly mate.

[@TreyGoose]

And what is that?🤣🤣🤣

[@prodrvr4185]

@@TreyGoose lower octane in a higher compression eng. will cause a spark in the cylinder b4 the spark plug does it. Hotspots.

[@rickstout2458]

@@prodrvr4185 Exactly, the lower the octane rating of the fuel, the less heat and therefore the lower the compression ratio of the air/fuel mixture, it takes for the fuel to spontaneously combust.

[@Soul_Freezer]

Just checking in to say, yup. Anything below about 10.5:1, you could maybe run 89 or 87. However, I’d still run 91 to be safe…

[@3613jeremy]

I always wondered why 4-valve engines like the older 16,24&36 valve engines that took 87oct seem to run alot better on 93

[@scottinWV]

So..... If you are running a factory tune, use the factory recommended fuel.

[@jeffreybailey175]

How much of a factory tune is 93 octane good for in HP compared to a tuned for 93 octane ..hope you understand what I'm asking. Have a 2019 SS Camaro it states 455 HP ... wonder if anyone tested this claim.

[@gabrieldetwiler7078]

Correct

[@z71offroad2000]

i watch a lot of these vids. let me tell my truck story.. i bought a new 1988 silverado 4x4 v8 350 pickup, great truck no issues or repairs other than regular maintenance up to 140k miles. loved it. everything still worked great when i sold it in 2000. I bought a 2000 chev silarado 1500 5.3 v8 fully loaded reg cab z71 package, 30k mikes trans went out, 80k miles rear end went out, no other issues mechanically, 2004 traded it in for a new 03 1500 4x4 ext cab silverado5.3 v8, constant electrical issues in interior, trans dumped at 25k miles, burned oil like crazy, 2006 traded that truck for a used 2004 2500 crew cab duramax chevy 4x4, what a truck .... awsome ride never had a single issue, bought it with 32k miles on it sold it outright in 2012 for 27k i had put over 100k miles on it. awsome truck. it was factory no emision truck as it was a early04 production. 2012 i bought my current truck, a 2009 gmc sierra , duramax crew cab 4x4 with evry option avalable except navigation screen, that sucked anyway. I bought it as a repo for 42k back then and it had 45k miles on it, i emedialtly completely emission deleted the truck and used as daily driver and tow rig on weekends, i currently read odometer at 162k miles. never any major mechanical issues besides regular drivetrain upkeep and maintenance, never had to touch anything on the motor or trans, not even starter or alterna5or, just accessory drive belt once. this 09 is a hell of a truck and i love it. it runs and drives great. no interior or exterior issues. i have replaced all the front end suspension stuff 2 times though. and just did 5he rear drive saft u joints last month, they had gotten pretty dry and squeaky but not loose oddly. anyway i highly recommend the 09 to 11 duramax 2500s.

[@michaelholt804]

The need for high octane in non boosted cars is for cars with high compression, high performance engines. When air is compressed it gets hot. At a compression ratio of 12 to 1 and running 87 octane the temperature of the air is hot enough to ignite the fuel before the spark plug hits. This will throw the timing of the engine off and can blow out your pistons. Some engines have a knock sensor that will tell the computer and it can compensate but you will lose some power and it could miss. For the average car owner its not a needed expense. If you own a high performance vehicle it very well may be.

[@richardlapoint1845]

It depends on a non boosted app. You 87 octane has up to 20% ethanol in it nowadays, so running premium isn't necessarily about adding power or anything performance wise, it's about making the vehicle run right, bc it has a much much lower ethanol content.

[@joesmith306]

Octane is used to settle pre ignition and detonation problems. The extra power comes from getting it right.

[@SgtJoeSmith]

Yep. That's what I try and tell all the idiots. On his car the 93 doesn't add power. It just unlocks the power he already has. But the 87 will decrease the power. Or keep it locked up. But on a 97 4 banger ranger truck or a Prius the higher octane won't do anything to help and may cause it to run worse than the lower octane. It's a matter of just using what's right for your engine. My BMW says 93 for best performance but knock sensor will adjust timing for 87. I did 87 first 18 months I had it. 93 a month last year when it was so cheap in early spring. Been doing 87 since. I don't notice a difference. And I'm a speeder.

[@cognac8297]

​@@SgtJoeSmith like spark plugs they think they get better gas mileage. But if anything restore the original gas mileage

[@xxrated-2174]

​@@SgtJoeSmithmy 2015 cruze turbo has been sluggish alot put 93 in alot better now

[@hightechredneck_0566]

Love how you talk about actual timing and AFR numbers. Subd because of that. Would love to see the timing curve. Does it follow the torque curve?

[@Ws6Ms]

do this with some E85 in the tank ... 50 /50 gas e85 mix or 70 gas/30

[@sad754yt]

I run 87 in my 6.4 Hemi Ram and she runs fine. No knocks or pings at all. When I need to stomp on the gas it pins me in my seat and is up to 70 before you know it. 93 not needed for me.

[@romper4444]

Ya they only require 89 mid grade so not much different

[@ericb.4358]

No high octane fuel is NOT a "scam" but unless your engine compression and ECU fuel map is not set to take advantage of the higher octane using high octane is a wast of money.

[@garykeenan3724]

Just think how much faster Fred Flintstones car would be if Fred wore some Nike’s!!!

[@eddylorenzo5033]

I like how u ate comfortable with a spot and don't push for nothing nice work

[@armedtotheteeth1974]

That Camaro has a trailer hitch. It also has a "hello kitty" cover on it. 😂

[@austinpowers1999]

I tow my RV with my Camero

[@danzare5638]

Octane is used for " resistance to knock " the higher the compression the high the probability of knock , so higher octane can allow for that resistance to knock pre ignition and detonation problems are also alleviated somewhat if they have carbon deposits on the heads causing higher compression to exist and creating those hot spots

[@340rps]

And this is the problem if 87 used in low compression motor as the additives that make the higher octane won't burn off properly.

[@DonziGT230]

Compression is only one of many factors that determine an engines knock sensitivity. I have two super low compression engines that are both more prone to knocking than my 11:1 motor, all running the same brand of 87 octane.

[@danzare5638]

@@DonziGT230 I speak of by design , various things can cause problems , too rich fule mixture over time and carbon builds up on the heads and piston then is under high temps and it becomes hardened and engine must be disassembled to be removed ,, it causes high spots that can have the effect of highe compression but worse as it remains hot and cause the fuel to burn before TDC most lawn mower engines can easily run on 77 octane , but that is not common in a gas station so 87 is most often used and that is 10 points higher then athe engine is designed to run on , and it does not make more hp , read up on it , ...

[@danzare5638]

@@DonziGT230 read up on , Pre-ignition , Detonation and Knock a too lean fule mixture can cause pre-igition , both pre-igition and detonantion can cause ping / knock peculiar you be running 87 octane in a 11:1 motor

[@douglassopa2544]

my old classic gets 93 regardless. cuz my girl gets the best and she likes 4 more degrees of timing you will feel the diff-

[@somefuckindude]

I mix a little bit of 98 octane non-oxygenated with 91 non-oxy. I don't like putting corn in anything.

[@frankcline2851]

You can usually go to small airports and get 100 low lead. Older natural aspirated vehicles seem to like it

[@davesmith6560]

Did that in the early 1980s to put in my 1969 Camaro when i went to Byron Dragway .raceing against my buddys 1968 mustang. For the Win !!. It was good too have Buddies that work at the local airport.. Lol

[@bobby7987]

Your old classic only needs 93 if you have 10:1 compression or higher. Possibly 9.5:1 if you have poor quench a lot of timing and tendencies for preignition. Anything below that and you can run low octane. 93 octane isn't a "scam" its simply a more detonation resistant formula. It burns slower and releases energy slower in lower compression engines. This leads to worse fuel milage and excessive carbon deposits. Back in the 90s ford had issues with uninformed people putting premium in their 8-8.5:1 engines and it caused carbon knock...so much so that they instructed in the owners manual NOT to run premium for that reason. People still didn't listen though 🙄. I run 90-93 in my classic with 10:1 depending on where my timing is set and how hot it is outside/how I'll be driving it....32-38° of timing....38° is knocking on the door of detonation on a 90° day with 90 octane.

[@somefuckindude]

@@bobby7987 I'm running a '14 Mustang GT California Special with a supercharger. I was running E85 with 15 psi of boost at low rpms. Until I got some bad E85. Now I have a Ford Performance forged short block with a little less compression so I can run 91 gas. But I like to make it a little higher because of the blower. I did the same in my 66 El Camino because i had 11:1 compression. I could get away with running 91 octane because I had aluminum heads on the 468 ci BBC. But it ran cooler with higher octane. Back in the day I had a 91 Mustang GT that I put a 9psi Pro Charger on and I usually ran 93 octane in that.

[@JDJD-mw9rr]

I always get sad when people put 93 in cars with regular low compression engines because they think it's "better" gas....sigh

[@JDJD-mw9rr]

@Certified Big Dog lol whatever helps you sleep at night. Apparently 93oct will stay stable longer but it is harder to ignite so it would make a 87oct car theoretically make less power ....in theory that is

[@DonziGT230]

Yup. Even after this test many commenters have said "I'll still use premium because it's better."

[@koencarter4347]

In the USA, the additive package is better on premium fuel so yes in that sense it is "better'. As far as "it's runs smoother and makes more power on my car tuned for 87" there is no evidence of that

[@angelo_giachetti]

Watch this ch on 1.25 speed. It brings his speech up to normal.

[@completestreetperformance]

The more you know

[@lateroc2955]

@@completestreetperformance Are any of the Chevy's for sale?

[@Hotdog80085]

Lol

[@joeym2156]

@@lateroc2955 pretty sure these are all customer cars lol

[@lateroc2955]

@@joeym2156 Thanks man

[@tracyfoor4336]

My 64 Buick Skylark knows the difference between 93 and 87 octane, if I run 87 it' harder to start the car and it will diesel when You shut it off, but with the 93 octane it fires right up and When You shut it off it doesn't diesel.

[@mattp733i]

I had this same problem with my 83 BMW. I swapped to motronic 1.3 and I don't have this issue anymore on 87 octane. The car does not diesel anymore when you shut the car off.

[@Sean_Farmer]

@Paul Schwartz sounds like you're on to something. It's likely a perfect candidate for some form of electronic distributor. If he's got the 300 with a 4 barrel it had 11:1 compression which would really explain the severity of his issues. For the guys that like the OEM look there's always the Pertronix mod for the stock distributor.

[@wowbest111]

If u topup regular on premium required ride u will reduce bit of hp.. you can feel it instantly someone dragging behind.

[@highrzr]

Nicely done. Hopefully this will help to get the point across that running "Premium" fuel in an engine designed\tuned for "Regular" is a waste of money. There is soo much misconception surrounding "Premium" fuel.

[@j.james-88]

That's not at all what he said. Besides, the LS motor was I indeed designed to run more efficient on high octane fuel. Too many stories of LS3's and L99's developing piston knock when running on 87 for long stretches.

[@DonziGT230]

@@j.james-88 I ran 87 in my LS3 twice. The first time on 87 I got brief detonation a couple times when getting on the gas hard, then it stopped. What's really crazy to me is that it did it once at startup, just one 'click' from the motor right as it lit off. Apparently the computer made the necessary changes because the detonation went away. The second time I ran 87 was on a long highway cruise, I wanted to see if the MPG would noticeably change, I saw nothing. After many months of only using 91 my next tank will be 87 to see what happens.

[@Joe-co4sq]

Great video. So 50 cents more a gallon to gain 10-20 horsepower and you can't go back to 87 without a retune? I don't think it's worth it but if money is no object then by all means go for it.

[@rdsimmonds]

Some cars are tuned from the factory to be able to run "regular" grade vs "premium" grade. So there's no cost for the tuning, but the extra per dollar amount on gas could give you more power.

[@BenjySparky]

Great job Andrew you rock! I'm here for the algorithm!

[@jamesradcliffe3985]

higher octane enables you to build a motor that makes more HP. High octane gas actually has less bang per given amount. It is LESS explosive so you can have a chamber with higher pressures. Alcohol actually has far less bang per given amount. Thats why you have to run alcohol in far greater quantities versus gas. But you can build a killer motor to run on alcohol.

[@warrenmccarty256]

Higher octane is not less explosive and has a lower flashpoint

[@javiermedinaortiz4653]

The result would have been widely different if it would have been a boosted car. Still good vid.

[@michealortiz3350]

Running 87 in a boosted car is asking to blow your shit up.

[@scottinWV]

What about stock boosted? Like the Ford Ecoboost engines?

[@HitKLHman]

Most cars not boosted

[@V8Lenny]

@@michealortiz3350 makes no difference , you tune it to edge anyway no matter what fuel is used.

[@michealortiz3350]

@@V8Lenny know one runs 87 in a boosted car, show me who does and I'll believe you.

[@ogcheddar420]

So the way this should go is two runs for every timing setting, one on 87 and the other on 93. Pretty simple. The compression doesn't change so the stability of the fuel during compression isn't relevant (if the motor has high compression then it requires greater stability of course). A better topic would be looking into hp gains/losses from straight gasoline vs e10 on a stock vehicle before and after tuning.

[@Dota2funny]

why? why would it change with e10?

[@turbinexman]

Unfortunately, you can't get 93 octane in many Western States, such as "Kommiefornia"!!

[@gba1659]

Octane rating has nothing to do with horsepower. It is a rating of a fuel's resistance to pre ignition also called detonation which you normally hear as a pinging sound under load.

[@Hosshoggbossdogg]

It does have to do with hp tho...

[@gba1659]

@@Hosshoggbossdogg not at all. Same engine with everything the same will make near identical horsepower numbers whether you are using 87, 93 or race gas. The higher octane rating will allow you to run more timing in that engine so it can make higher power, but at that point,, you changed a variable. With everything the same there is no difference.

[@rickstout2458]

@@gba1659 Sorry bro, but you made a blanket statement without mentioning the restriction so you were incorrect.

[@Hosshoggbossdogg]

@@gba1659 you just contradicted yourself there, buddy

[@gba1659]

@@Hosshoggbossdogg no I didn't. I said all things the same, there is no power difference. With higher octane you can run more timing, which is a BIG change.

[@mikem.6340]

Just bcuz you have a sports car doesn’t automatically mean you need to jump to higher octane. Your vehicles manual will tell you exactly what number octane to run. Get a Dyno tune for more horsepower.

[@randallthomas5207]

Shell did extensive testing on fleet vehicles, to examine long term wear, and fuel economy of running various octane levels and calculating the effects of a tames versus what the manufacturer recommended. Every incidence the wear was higher, and teh power lower as you dropped below the recommended octane, and made no difference if you ran fuel with higher octane than the manufacturer recommended. Modern engines do two things to eliminate ping if you run too low of octane. The timing is retarded, and the fuel air mixture gets richer. My employer requires that we run the lowest octane available at the pump. Locally that is 85. The manual for my truck recommends 92. I could have destroyed the engine any time I wanted. If I went full throttle pulling into traffic it sounded like you were pouring 1/4-inch nuts down the intake.

[@benjaminprescott6635]

My 5cyl Colorado has vvt on the exh.cam & it has 10.2 compression so it makes a dlf on pwr.From a roll l best all the 5.7 Dodges,all so that makes alot more pwr. Than Elephants as mine has242hp.Pure stk except cold air pack.Granted lm alot lighter,but mine has 3.7 inches to5.7.It has the ext cam timing,& turns the cam timing if it sense no detination...Love it

[@Thumper68]

This has been known for 60+ years nothings changed except the car does it for you now😂

[@jimsix9929]

lower octane fuel will give you better mpg and power up to the point of detonation, then you have to get the 93, it will work with higher compression or more timing advance, but if you have a regular car, do not waste your money, I have a cadillac that says premium on the gas cap but I only use it if I am going to run the car hard, like a trip on the interstate, around town 87 works fine

[@ihavetofishable]

They make THE SAME HP the only difference is, "WHAT IS THE ENGINE'S COMPRESSION RATIO". LOW OCTANE will DESTROY a high compression motor. On the other hand, high octane does NOTHING to or for a low compression motor.

[@wythetrumpet6419]

It would be interesting to see E85 thrown in. I know the fuel air ratio would change, but it would be interesting to see hp gains just on fuel changes alone.

[@thebanks06]

It loses power until you change the tune

[@joemeyers1016]

E85 doesn't gain much power on LS based NA engines. Gen 5 LT stuff sees big gains... Much higher compression ratio.

[@killercan10]

So the owner of that Camaro was cheap off the get go. GM had the L99 (10.4:1 compression) and LS3 (10.7:1 compression) run 91 or higher. 87 would explain the timing being pulled on the initial baseline. If the owner had 91+ in it there might have been zero to slight timing pull.

[@jamesmichaelragland4336]

I am happy to see your video's are back to us the little guys...no Corvette Corvette Corvette

[@intermissionbuffalo]

I had a 2011 Chevy Colorado with an inline 5. As the weather warmed up the engine would ping(pre-detonate). I would then switch from 87 to 93 Octane and it would go away(with the exception of very hot days. 90 F and above). The engine also sounded different. Just a little smother sounding combustion.

[@jefff6884]

Something about Chevy engines my Impala with the 3.6 runs so much smoother with 91 compared to 87.

[@masterspin7796]

It will make more power if you can make the tuning adjustments...Add 10 degrees of ignition timing..

[@wheelstandr]

I would have left the 87 tune in it. Good enough. It just didn’t go far enough to make it worth while to pay extra per gallon of gas.

[@Ericsaidful]

Problem is that 93 doesn't generate more power. The tune was the difference.

[@Sky1]

To be honest, if I am not racing I think I would rather be tuned for 87 give up the 11 HP and keep 14 dollars in my pocket each fill up. You know premium used to only be 13-14 cents more, now they are just ripping us off.

[@mojo3008]

I got a 93 tune on my Mustrag and my highway mileage went from 26 to 32mpg. So you have to figure in that on your cost.

[@matthewkuhl79]

i started blending 95 in my car and got a 14% increase in fuel economy at the expense of 50% higher fill-up costs lol

[@mojo3008]

@@matthewkuhl79 adding high octane fuel without a tune really won't do anything unless you were getting detonation. I also have a lot more power.

[@matthewkuhl79]

@@mojo3008 It's a European car with a 95 octane recommendation. 11.4:1 CR

[@randybeard6040]

So if Timing is same for both 87 and 93 octane, the HP is about Equal--don't waste money on higher octane fuel!!!

[@smilsmff]

hey oh congratulations on voting for a Muppet, dont you now love what has happened to auto craft

[@farncoisbisson7737]

I dont know about usa... but here in canada... anything but premium 91 or 94 and now 93 from shell are with ethanol. And well ethanol gum up everything and make everything rust but worst is that it absorbe water like methanol do... so bad for cars that sit for a while... even on my l83 that absolutely dont require 91 i put it in. Keep my oil cleaner longer.. on my wife car its where it make a bigger difference because she never really get the engine hot amd i guesss it make more condensation than ethanol free gasoline? Especially in winters months ..

[@hythekiller]

nice vid bro but you need to shave your axillary hair bit of hygiene does not harm. Please make a videos with lean or Rich AFR and with low and to much timing on the dyno thanks a lot

[@DumbCarGuy]

Should have used a Shelby GT350. It sounds 500 times more better than any camaro. More pleasing to the ears too.

[@charleshall9755]

i read that on the gen 5 Camaro SS that if you put 87 octane in the car then the computer would use the 87 tune automatically and you had to pull the #5 fuse to get it back to the 92 or 93 tune...

[@captjim007]

The reason your not getting much of a power change is because gas has the same amount of energy in it btu rating.There's approximately 120,000 btu of energy in a gallon of gasoline. Octane rating is not related to btu content. Octane is a measure of a fuel's tendency to ignite under pressure. Lower octane gasolines ignite at lower pressures, which is why higher octane gas helps reduce knocking from compression. If an engine is built to run efficient on 87 octane, lower cylinder pressure, then changing to a higher octane won't help much and if you go to high an octane it will lose power because it is burning too slow .

[@jessemurray1757]

don't forget thats only a 10 second long dyno pull. Make a long pull on the street and you'll see an even bigger drop in performance with 87 octane.

[@meflog2]

I would like to see a comparison of 91 and 93. I only get 91 here in Kansas

[@TheBb6prelude]

Probably very minimal.

[@jubjub905]

Saw a test. About 10hp

[@fredwilliams7893]

91 only in California

[@MeltingRubberZ28]

Can you get E85?

[@Lucille69caddy]

My ‘02 Grand Prix GTP knows the difference. Most boosted cars will.

[@kennygardner5041]

My Challenger is a six speed manual and it calls for 93 octane. I had to put 87 in once and it doesn’t run as well. I have the 3:92 gearing as well so it revs higher and likes the octane. Happy car!

[@306champion]

Octane doesn't create horsepower, octane allows horsepower.

[@brandonh9016]

Sal's long lost brother from Impractical Jokers

[@mrmustangman]

yes.!!!!!!!

[@arianduran1725]

The computer will calibrate, you can't just run the car straight 87 & expect perfection..

[@joshliban1594]

Did the Camaro owner have to use different injectors or fuel filter?

[@4thgenZ28]

Wish you would have done this test on a factory tuned car. Reason I say this is the 5th gens computer is setup to run on 87 if need be by the computer changing the parameters. So if you put 87 in the car and start driving the computer changes so you can safely drive with that has in the car. If you decide to go back to 93 you have to reset the computer, take the power off of it for a while and then put 93 in the car and you will be back to the 93 tune and all is good. So for the person that said their car doesn't run as good now after putting in the 87, reset your ecm and you should be back to where you was originally before adding the 87.

[@MegaSling]

Interesting, I wonder what roll the ECU and Knock sensor played in this? It's always been my understanding that the ecu will put more timing in until the knock sensor says STOP. More timing = higher cylinder pressure (not compression) and HP. Thus, even though the engine will run fine on 87 octane it's because the ecu is taking timing out at the request of the knock sensor. When running 93 octane the ecu will put more timing in at the request of the knock sensor and thus, your engine will make more HP on the 93 octane. Does the tune your using disable the knock sensors some how?

[@DonziGT230]

I was wondering the same. The first time I decided to try 87 in my Jeep (Corvette LS3 swap with unknown tune) I got brief detonation, then never heard it again so apparently it learned. If this guy's tune deletes that safety I'd be very concerned if I were the owner of that car.

[@harbonip]

Bruh , close the door . Lol .😳 Thanks 👍🏽 That heavy Chevy sound so sweet.

[@danmyers9372]

Don’t even have to watch the video. Octane has NOTHING to do with his much power an engine makes. Octane is only is a measure of the fuels resistance to detonation.

[@chadkent1241]

But in say, boosted applications more timing = more power and 93 with tolerate more ignition timing than 87 for um....more power.

[@TheBb6prelude]

@@chadkent1241 same for High compression motors. Most Hondas are in the 11s stock. B18s F20b k 20 etc etc

[@jaydubb71]

Who in the hell put 87 octane in a 5th Gen Camaro SS? Hopefully their local pump was just out of 93?

[@deathzr1158]

Some states don’t have 93

[@jaydubb71]

@@deathzr1158 ok... At least you can get 91 in California

[@just_a5.7]

Damn cali slacking . Texas got 93 up the ass

[@thephantomzoneboxing]

i have a 69ss 427 big block 87 and 89 all day babay..benefit of being carbureted! 🤣

[@thephantomzoneboxing]

@Steve Miller its a tuning and compression ratio problem couple different factors

[@Wabits]

87 octane fuel (and less) contains higher energy per covalent bond, it will always release more energy. Therefore, under the correct circumstances, a lower octane fuel will always result with superior fuel economy. Power is a completely different story. The art of producing power is all about throwing away heat energy- not conserving it for max economy. By throwing away unwanted heat via intercooling, and by using higher octane (less efficient) fuels such as alcohol and so forth, economy is cast to the wind in order to protect the engine from high temperature and explosive chemical reactions. Thus more power can be produced even while efficiency and economy drop out when using higher octane fuels. The reason using a higher octane fuel doesn't automatically generate more power is because the compression ratio of the engine, air density (added boost pressure) and additional mass flow rate of airflow throughput is an additional requirement as the octane is increasing. In other words when the engine configuration is left in it's native 87 octane state, then adding 93 or 103 or 114 octane fuel is going to reduce the power output (all else equal) because it robs efficiency as we discussed above, while adding nothing to the mass airflow throughput of the engine or potential energy extraction of the combustion torque integral, which is the pressure integral over which expanding gasses apply force the a piston during some time of ideal connecting rod angle.

[@nickpollay1681]

Correct!! Thank god someone has a real education here!! This is why airplanes that use internal combustion use 82-83 octane

[@Fluke2SS]

@kalamadaya: Therefore, under the correct circumstances, a lower octane fuel will always result with superior fuel economy. Wow. Apparently you haven't heard of an E-85 tune yet. You gain power, but use more gas. Basic physics. Higher Octane gas produces better fuel economy. I think you zigged when you should have zagged. Finally more people without an education it seems. And neither of which understand EPA regulations regarding fuel economy. There's a reason these high performance vehicles are ran on 93 octane from the factory and why aftermarket tunes voids your warranty.

[@nickpollay1681]

@@Fluke2SS umm please research more before shit talking people. You look like a fool right now. 87 octane has more energy in it then 93. Simple math explains that 🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️

[@Wabits]

@@Fluke2SS Incorrect. And very easy information to look up: Alcohol is even worse than gasoline in terms of energy per mass. Alcohol fuels (higher octane than gasoline) will always result with worse fuel economy than gasoline. Sorry to burst your bubble mate. Alcohol even goes one step further and pulls energy from parts as it evaporates, resulting with an "ice down" effect that can literally cause ice to form on parts. Thus the Alcohol(E85 is 85% alcohol) is robbing your fuel economy but protecting the engine from heat-related stress such as detonation, pre-ign, thermal expansion (ring issues), etc... making it ideal for high performance use, but terrible in terms of miles per gallon. Everybody knows this... I am kind of shocked to see this level of ignorance but now you are educated. For practical example we look to OEM vehicles of any make and model. As the years progress, 80, 90, 00, 10, 20 There is a heat-related stand out feature they all posses: Increasing coolant temperature and underhood insulations. Newer vehicles always use higher coolant temps and more insulation. As coolant temp rises and insulation increases, power plant efficiency also increases. Trapping in the heat produced by burning fuels is essential to achieving max economy. Also, Alot of your statements seem incoherent. You say: "Finally more people without an education"? What are you saying exactly? You wish that more people won't have education? I don't understand that which you do me the honor to tell me.

[@causeimbatmaaan]

You're wrong in this respect: if you necessitate greater octane fuel you will get both better mileage and power.

[@trackandstreetracer7359]

Why would you leave the door open at the start of the video? That chime is super annoying.

[@ucnhtmenow1]

Besides the job I have now, my dream job would be to own a shop and tune and build cars. I wouldn't like to work for a shop because unless you're like the master mechanic,you won't make the big bucks. I currently run gun parts on cnc machines, really anything the customer wants that we're capable of machining. We made a couple parts for the guy Houston that owns "royalty exotics" here in Las Vegas, (check out his KZbin channel if you like cars). We made motor mounts for his twin turbo V10 Lambo swap in a Alfa Romeo 4c. I've been building cars since 2005. It started with my next door neighbor whose dad used to own a wrecking yard/tow yard/junk yard, whatever you want to call it. His dad would allow him to drive the cars around the lot at like age 8 so he was a car fanatic and his dad bought him like 3 different cars before he even had a license. But he would ask me to help him swap tranny's, rear ends, engines etc.. all the time, so when my first car that I bought out of high school in 2004 was already built, I started really getting into building, breaking and working on them. I would rebuild engines for some of my buddies and helped people that couldn't pay for a mechanic, still do, and it became a passion. If I had a shop, I wouldn't make any money because I'm always helping people because I feel bad for them especially when it's something simple and the dealership wants to charge them $800 and they barely have enough money to put gas in the damn car. I stopped building my buddies engines because I realized one day, something will break and they're going to blame me no matter what it is and I don't have money to replace a motor they just spent $7k+ putting together but if a shop screws up, they have the cash to pay for it. Also it's not worth running a friendship over either. Luckily I've never had an experience like that but I've seen some stuff happen at my buddies transmission shop that got a few people beat up.

[@dragsmoothfishingtv635]

My car from factory requires 93, however we only have 91 here in Los Angeles lol 😂 They sell us that watered down trash 🗑 compared to other states and they charge us twice as much. Thank you California Politicians 🤔🗑🗑🗑✅

[@travisfowler8345]

When its cold it runs lean? Is this dude really making rips on a customer's car while it's cold? Maybe let it idle til operating temp... and the fuel table is where it will actually be while driving...

[@andrewwilliamson1879]

How much compression have u been able to run on a 6.2 engine like that with pump 93? if u were to mill the heads.

[@joemeyers1016]

Should be able to run upwards of 11.5:1 if the quench is right.

[@corvetteZ3r]

I ran 12.4:1 on my LS7. Having a bigger cam helps bleed compression

[@corvetteZ3r]

@@joemeyers1016 that’s boomer talk right’air lol

[@thephantomzoneboxing]

@@corvetteZ3r what octane did you use?

[@corvetteZ3r]

@@thephantomzoneboxing 93 and E85

[@Ericsaidful]

You said your tune was conservative on the 87 Octane and then show the power difference between the TUNES for 87 and 93 octane. There is no difference between the two in power or BTU's. The only difference is their resistance to detonation. What your Dyno Sheet shows is the difference in your tune, not the octane. What you want to do when running an experiment is control any variables which may effect the outcome. One variable would be the tune. Rather than issue a control, you tuned it conservatively when using 87 and not when using 93, thus, the result of the difference in power being attributed to Octane is invalid. Run the test again, controlling for all variables which CAN be controlled, including the tune, temperature, location fuel was purchased from, etc. and then run the test again.

[@340rps]

87 has more energy, that said it doesn't mean more power.

[@lawyers9]

You guys are techno savvy! Wish I lived closer. I would definitely have you tune my 5th gen. I used a Diablo tuner on mine and it helped, but I know you could get the most out of it. Great video Andrew. Keep them coming!

[@Noneyurbusiness]

Where do you live?

[@charleshall9755]

how much difference did the diablo tuner make over a stock tune?

[@GarrisonsMadHouse]

I bought a mustang that was built by someone else and I have to background on it. It runs okay on 87 but if I put 93 it wants to jump the gun. Also for some reason it has a 5 speed racing transmission and rear swapped out but I do not know the ratios all I know is they are not stock

[@b.c4066]

Octane isn't about making more power. Octane rating from low to high is a measurement of it's flash temperature and resistance to lighting off. The least octane you need to avoid pre-ignition is almost always what WI make the best power when it comes to pump gas. At least that is how it's been explained to me.

[@jefferycoleman3781]

The comments are redundant, we get it, you're all heros that know that higher octane can prevent detonation.. I built a 383 stroker(11.2/1 CR) for my 81 camaro. I ran a 12.33@117mph on 87 octane on a 93 degree afternoon. Need a good quench, (I had .040), the 6" rods help, more dwell time, and I had a 294 magnum cam, which bleeds off compression. I ran the timing at 32 with the 87 octane, and ran 36 with 92 octane. No change in trap speed. Unless you are knowledgeable about the dynamics involved, I'd run 92 in almost any vehicle to be safe.

[@MrTrevorkemp]

Believe it or not, there are many car manufacturers out there that actually do have the proper equipment to meet actual EU standards in engines that can be ran on both non-performance and performance fuels and actually are able to test the octane themselves and have been tested and tuned for various octanes and have that automatically programmed in the computer garbage motors. I mean general motors does not like doing that and in this case, even though it is a Camaro SS and a high performance car, they programmed it and tuned it on regular unleaded fuel because they know that many of the owners are going to do that. The way that general motors does it is over time. If you are an aggressive driver and the knock sensor is not detecting any events, it will slowly add timing until it starts detecting events and if it detects a lot of events it will very quickly pull timing off and then it takes a while to get that timing back now over the period of about 5,000 mi of driving where you're consistently filling this car with 93 octane fuel, it would have gone ahead and added another six or seven° of timing itself and this car currently with the way it is tuned cannot derate itself good enough at this point to run regular unleaded fuel if you're going to give it any reasonable amount of throttle for performance so you need to be careful to go ahead and make sure you're getting 93 for it or you have him go pop that 87 tune on it if you need to or even have him make you a custom tuner where you can put an 87 tune on it really quick a factory car would eventually be putting out this horsepower if you were regularly putting 93 octane in the tank for every tank, especially if you were driving it hard and it would quickly detune itself back to factory settings that one time you put 87 octane in it, ran it a little ways and then did a quick hard pull on it. It would quickly pull all of that timing off and over a long period of time regain that timing and yes on this particular car. As long as your light on the throttle you would still be able to run 87 octane. You just can't get into the throttle too much. Otherwise you do risk blowing the car up there are many other car manufacturers that go ahead and tune the cars for four different octanes and between tuning the cars for four different octanes of fuel and having an actual octane sensor in the fuel rail to be able to tell what the fuel is that's going into the engine at the moment. They can automatically readjust themselves on the fly general motors. Doesn't want to do that but companies like Toyota do my 2012 Prius V. For example, I can tell a noticeable difference between running it on regular unleaded and premium unleaded. Even though it is only a difference of about two horsepower and 3 ft lb of torque, it gets up into that. 3 ft lb extra torque a bit lower in the RPMs and rides that extra three RPMs of torque much longer in the RPM and same thing with that extra 2 horsepower it gains that extra. 2. Horsepower much lower in the RPMs and rides it to a bit later in the RPMs for the engine on it's already fairly flat horsepower and torque curve, which means it makes a bigger difference even though it is a smaller peak number because you can achieve that peak and utilize that peak for a much wider RPM range. So small horsepower numbers in that sense make bigger difference than engines that typically climb over a period of time and have stepped grades of power and torque especially engines that do not have a flat horsepower and torque curve which to give general motors credit in this case, according to that Dyno chart, it has a fairly flat curve which is a good thing, especially for people who are daily driving these things and have a long highway commute. It means it can achieve reasonable fuel economies when driven reasonably unfortunately given everything I've just said when you're buying an expensive sports car like this from a cheap American manufacturer like this to get your actual limits of performance out of it you have to take it to a guy who does this stuff. But before you do you have to fill it once or twice with premium octane fuel so that way it's got that high octane in it to be tuned for that higher octane fuel or if you're running one of the same generation of Camaro, you can just go based off of this guy's advice. If you can get your hands on the necessary equipment to add the timing to the ignition yourself and you could just fill it up a couple times with premium and then throw a few degrees of extra advance 7° of advance into the ignition like this guy just instructed us to. So basically this guy for anyone who runs essentially what is that Camaro has just cost himself the work in his local area. Assuming that the owner of the car can get their hands on the necessary connections and tuning software to be able to do this themselves, now they know what they're working with. Also, you don't necessarily need a dynamometer to tune your car, but it does give you the actual gains that you were getting. Whereas when you're just looking at computer stuff and you're looking at the knock sensor detecting events or not, you don't know how much you're actually gaining. You just know you're putting more into it and getting more out of it essentially that being said, this comment is being made in 2024 and as long as you're running a forced induction factory car, it actually is capable of making use of the higher octane because they did go through the process of tuning it for the various different octanes anywhere from regular unleaded to premium octane and they do have the necessary equipment on board to be able to tell the quality and grade of fuel you are running. But if it has a turbocharger on it nowadays and you're buying a brand new turbocharged or supercharged vehicle, I highly recommend that you just run the premium unleaded or highest octane rating fuel that you can get your hands on at the time. That is a pump gas and not some special racing gas that you can buy like cam 2 which is 116 octane which the next city over from me. You can buy that as a special high performance pump gas that says it is tested to meet the EPA standards. I mean more like regular mid-grade and ultra or premium gasoline also, many people have done the test and I think that it is at a difference of $0.25 per gallon. You get enough fuel economy that the higher octane fuel cost you the same or slightly less per mile than the lower octane fuel. So your cost per mile almost goes down if the octane rating is $0.25 per level difference and even at $0.30 per level difference, it's just a little bit better insurance for your car, assuming that you were driving a much newer small displacement turbo car that produces tons of horsepower or a medium to large displacement supercharged car cuz they can tell the difference and they can make use of that higher octane fuel or they can run the lower octane fuel if you want but if this car was actually built to meet the European emission standards for the model year, it claims it would already come from the factory with a tune and the necessary equipment on board to be able to tell whether it's running 87 octane or 93 octane and make the necessary adjustments to get the extra performance out of the higher octane fuel and you would also be able to go and put whatever fuel in it you wanted at any given time and get the maximum performance out of the engine for that particular grade of fuel as well. But unfortunately, since it's a garbage motors product, it is tuned for one octane of fuel the lowest rated octane cuz they now assume that everyone is going to go for the cheapest fuel they can buy even on a performance car like a Camaro SS. So that is what the car comes with from factory for its tune and you have to take it to a special tuning shop and have them do dynamometer rungs with the high octane fuel in the tank to be able to get the extra performance out of the vehicle a. Whopping 5.2% more horsepower and torque out of this engine to go from 87 octane fuel to 93. But as mentioned, the power curve on this engine is very flat which is a great thing. Even this small gain means that you will definitely notice a difference in the performance department which is good because if it had more of a bell curve type graph where as the engine RPMs go up, you definitely see the power go up instead of it going up the small amounts that this one does those smaller games on more non-flat power curve engines just don't really mean anything. But on engines like this one that have a very flat power curve even the small gains can't mean something because you get those gains very early on and the RPM range I'm guessing with this car even down low in the RPMs you're still seeing an extra 12 to 14 horsepower? Ken at 1,500 RPMs with the 93 tune which definitely makes a difference overall and is more worth it now. If this was one of those engines where you saw a rapid climb from low RPM to high RPM, which it's not then that 20 horsepower peak gain might not really be as worth it in this case but in this case with this car, yes even that small gain of just over 5% more horsepower is something that is noticeable and worth it.

[@mrsteele8056]

Watched about 30 secs.... door digging did me in

[@jerodrobinson4040]

Premium does not offer any more energy than Regular does, it's just more stable when compressed.. What happens when you put Regular in a Higher Compression Engine like this Camaro has is that instead of the A/F mixture being Ignited by the Plug at TDC the Engines Compression will Detonate it just before TDC while the Piston is still rising in it's compression stroke leaving all the energy created with nowhere to go. Its a very bad situation. Fortunately High Test Fuels are able to withstand the Higher Compression that goes along with Performance Engine's.

[@davidpoole8130]

I had an old Oldsmobile that had a 455 it was a high comp motor. If I put any fuel less than 91 octane, it would knock.

[@burtbunns2270]

When I use cheap gas mine knock and pinging .... when using higher octane it gets quite and runs better..on a 01 stock ram truck...😳 Don't know....👀

[@kcmullins6179]

Yeah 87 sucks but it's better than walking ya ass in the middle of nowhere lmao... I ran out of gas a few weeks back in my VW CC sport has a K04 turbo headers cammed ect super nice car.. and I was taking my brother to a girl's house he met and I wasn't expecting it to so far out in the appalachian mountains in NC.... Well the car started cutting in and out I look down and the computer screen and dash screen is showing extremely low fuel only 3 miles left..... So I was like shit!! N pulled over turned the car off had to find cell service or wifi signal and eventually I did.. and found the nearest gas station that was 4.3 miles from my location at the time which I knew the car wouldn't make it not with the engine built up like it is. It eats gas more than it used to stock lol obviously.. so I tried keeping the rpm low which is hard to do with a 4 cylinder with a large turbo but I was able to get speed n than hit the clutch n let it coast down the hills n corners and I seen the gas station in the distance and the car n computer screens was showing n saying less than 1/8th mile left in the tank basically.. so I said screw it and I floored it it ran out within 20 seconds maybe 30 seconds if that. I hit well above 150mph on a straight away Mountain road and coasted into the gas station which btw is a lil shack and only 87 and diesel...... 😒😒 So I walked in and found some octane booster who knows if it really works or if it's a scam but I bought some I through two bottles of that into the tank and put the 87 in it... Which I hated to do but no choice I put a half tank in it so I could get back to weaverville NC to a gas station that has 91 93 and 110 but the car seemed to not run right with it but once I put 110 back in it with 93 it started to straighten back out.. but yeah there is a difference between em 87 fires off to easy in a high compression engine hence why some cars will ping ect..

[@Jakalwarrior]

Sport bikes kind of like 87, they run mostly high rpms, I wonder if the increased volatility makes it more efficient at higher rpms. Sort of like how diesel sucks at high rpms.

[@bluesky-ud9wg]

Diesels "suck" at high rpm due to the physical size of the rotating assembly & long stroke. Nothing to do with the fuel

[@340rps]

Diesel= torque.

[@187Chevy]

Says in manual nothing less than 92 or e85…I’ll never in my life put anything lower than 92 in my SS….knock knock? Who’s there? Your engine

[@PlymouthBarracudaV8Hemi]

I use Dyno-tab Octane Booster, P//N 45456. No need to tune for low octane, car do it by itseft. To reset back to high octane you need to remove 2 fuses and wait several hours

[@simeonite7938]

My engine knocks for the 1st 4-5 minutes from starting with 87oct, it seems to not knock with 91oct(91 is highest where i live) someone please explain?

[@dcr1545]

It's not about power people, it's about protection. Higher octane will protect against piston slap way more than lower octane. Take it or leave it

[@iceblueeyes9455]

All I know is I had idling off it would miss a heart beat with a/c on and daytime running lights radio an so on in my 03 suburban if I run 93 shell no problem 87 And has that miss I don't know but what I know is my suburban likes the good stuff like me I like good whiskey when I dance with the devil just saying steak is better than hamburger

[@jamesgang94591]

So he tuned for 87 max power, then took it back to stock, put in 93 and slowly put the tune back in it and made more power. So at the end of each fuel runs were the tunes not the same, I’m confused?

[@realisrealite5554]

I have an 04 m3,it has a Dinan cai,bigger throttle bodies,gruppe m exhaust and a stage4 tune.I recently filled up with 91octane and drove 190mls to Houston.I didn't notice a difference at 75mph but when I gave it some gas to pass it hesitated.It also ran slightly hotter.My car NEEDS 93 or better.

[@underpaidlocator]

So does this mean if you're on a 93 tune and buy race gas for a day at the track there's no benefit? Looks that way to me.

[@DonziGT230]

Race gas might help or hurt, depends on which gas and how your car is tuned.

[@gabrieldetwiler7078]

It depends on your tuner

[@shawnhill4779]

hmmm ... interesting ... get your car tuned for 93 octane to get an extra 2% of performance while spending _only_ 20% more for gas.

[@donniebaker5984]

maybe you all should learn what octane does ...octane does only one thing and that is to slow down the rate the fuel burns ...the longer it burns the longer the fuel will expand when the fuel is ignited . the idea is to expand the explosion long enough through the entire power stroke ..this will get you higher milage by getting all the power possible from a drop of fuel ..if the fuel burns to fast it will not continue to push on the piston through the power stroke and need more fuel to maintain your desired speed wasting fuel and causing carbon deposits and engine damage

[@scotteddy9960]

What about the two fuses you need to pull? I've seen multiple Dino videos of fuse pulls because the tables won't readjust after you put lower octane into it??

[@joeym2156]

I would've thought this information would be common knowledge by now. Increase in octane is only for higher compression engines and higher octane alone will not increase hp or torque lol

[@b.c4066]

Agreed, yet somehow it is still widely misunderstood.

[@lothegreat1788]

Nope. Plenty of people still believe that huger octane gives you power and only run it .

[@diduck6878]

Only cars you tell a difference in are carbureted cars. Because the carburetor was tuned with premium, and now running regular. Or vise versa. Fuel injected the computer adjust on fly

[@joeym2156]

@@diduck6878 not at all true! Higher compression requires higher octane. If you have a turbocharged car that requires 91 octane and use 87 you will get engine knock and possibly also detonation which is not good to say the least lol

[@NoWr2Run]

I have a 1997 Grand Cherokee ( BOUGHT NEW ) with the 4.0 engine. Since day 1 it pinged, terrible gas mileage & felt down on power compared too my 96 Cherokee with the 4.0. I checked a lot of stuff, plugs, wires, dist. ect... What I ended up doing is putting 89 in it instead of 87, BAM WAS LIKE A WHOLE DIFFERENT ENGINE. No more pinging when you stepped on it, way better power & better gas mileage. Then tried 93 & saw no difference except in my wallet. It now has 197,587 miles on it & runs stronger than ever. I have put free flow Cat. on it, TRUE COLD AIR INTAKE, Magnaflow muffler & hogged out the throttle body too match the intake. Opening up the Throttle Body lost me some low end torque but I gained in the higher RPM'S. Going to put a regular Throttle Body back on, losing low end torque SUCKS IN A 4.0 JEEP.

[@dmndbiggestfan2605]

I put 93 in my car not because of it making my car faster but I just feel likes it’s better health wise for the car but I could be wrong but at the end of the day I’ll stick to 93

[@DonziGT230]

You might be doing more harm than good, just because it costs more doesn't make it better gas for your use.

[@gabrieldetwiler7078]

If your manufacturer recommends it, you are doing a good thing. If it doesn’t, you are most likely wasting your money. If you want detergents to keep your car okay, fill up with whatever your car recommends at a top tier gas station.

[@phillipschutter24]

Its amazing how many people dont have a clue what higher octane gasoline is used for... its only good for a high compression or boosted/supercharged engines to orevent pre ignition... also known as detonation or spark knock, if your engine is not designed to need it you wont gain any horsepower, and if it is and you dont run high octane, you will buy an engine sooner than later

[@Standyourground21]

Waiting for CSP release of the High Octane Muscle Shirt with Andrews face on it. 😂😂😂

[@completestreetperformance]

Lol keep waiting

[@king-o-vetts9899]

My wife is waiting for a high octane shirt with a picture of Andrew’s belly on it. Please, GOD, no!

[@Trebor-gw8lt]

Tuning it to run on 87 and running 87 on the factory tune where it prefers at least 91 are two different things. Total click bait.

[@ashes2ashes863]

As a GM car guy, I will tell you I appreciate the hardware sitting in your driveway.

[@TheTmshuman]

When I think about cars I usually don’t associate the topic with low T cucks, but that shirt says all I need to know about you.

[@jasonmcbride1419]

I have a 2010 camaro ss im looking for someone that nows how to tune 6l80 transmission. I have a hp tuner I leave in Pittsburgh

[@d3et1roi3t]

Coyote would tune itself to actually see the gains from 87 to 93 all on its own.

[@jkent9915]

Well, couldn’t watching it. Door chime was inducing suicidal thoughts.