Why Does Ethanol Make So Much Power? (Versus Gasoline)

[@EngineeringExplained]

If you'd like to learn more about ethanol, I have two other detailed videos on the subject: Is Ethanol Bad For Your Car's Engine? kzbin.info/www/bejne/d4WqhHWfZtB1opI Does Ethanol Have An Emissions Benefit? kzbin.info/www/bejne/fF7cdX6brsZnibc

[@daniel635biturbo]

Wait, did you just say that lower gasoline octane have less energy ? Or just that the efficiency is lower due to more prone to knock ?

[@EngineeringExplained]

@@daniel635biturbo First question: No Second Question: Yes

[@joshhhab]

Now make same comparison with LPG direct injection? Ok?

[@daniel635biturbo]

@@EngineeringExplained Thanks !

[@daide6039]

What is your take of each fuel from an environmental perspective? Lots of talk about whether biofuels (ethanol in this case) or gasoline is better than the other.

[@IndaloMan]

I am in my 60s and spent decades doing corporate whiteboard presentations like this (but not with complicated maths!). Love this channel for the simple presentations explaining complex processes.

[@EngineeringExplained]

Whiteboards are a great, simple tool!

[@anydaynow01]

Loving how he used SI for 99% of the video, so much easier to understand and work with from a scientific / engineering point of view. And the more people use it to explain things in videos like these the more comfortable everyone else will get with them.

[@michaelj8582]

@@anydaynow01 they didnt use metric units😭😭😭 how will i survive😢lmao😂

[@chitlitlah]

​​@@anydaynow01 What are you talking about? The only metric unit I see on the board is the kilogram. Other than that, he used kilowatt-hours, gallons, miles per gallon, octane ratings in RON, and other units which aren't metric. Edit: He used degrees celsius too, so maybe 20% of it was metric.

[@chitlitlah]

@@jamesdavidson81 I didn't see kilojoules on the board. I miss a lot of things though so it could be there, but it's still a long way from 99% metric.

[@maggotpudding]

I've had e85 kit on my car for bit over a year and couldn't be happier about the purchase. I've only suffered about 15% mileage increase but the fuel is less expensive enough to compensate for it. Not to mention e85 is readily available in Finland and not even made from plants but biowaste. Good stuff.

[@christopherabramor3012]

About the plant stuff he already made a video about how that's not really smart

[@christopherabramor3012]

About the rest, hell yeah! Why aren't we focusing on synthetic alcohol instead of synthetic gasoline? Isn't it much cheaper to do with the same Fischer-Tropsch process?

[@maggotpudding]

@@christopherabramor3012 Yeah seen that. Wasn't it so that making it out of corn wasn't really smart but some weed thing would sufficed? Anyway using waste to make fuel seems like win-win situation to me.

[@THe9-3MAnIaC]

Is it called EFlexfuel?

[@oldblueaccord2629]

@@christopherabramor3012 NOPE not really proven. your just mad you dont like e85.

[@youssefosama4466]

One of the reasons I entered engineering school 5 years ago is because of you. I want to thank you for every video you made explaining things this simply and easily has actually helped me a-lot during college.

[@JordieG8]

Another benefit you didn’t mention was, on Turbocharged engines the added mass of the ethanol in the Air/fuel charge compared to gasoline significantly improved turbocharge response. That extra mass is able to impart more energy on the turbine therefore improves response. While E30-40 is the sweet spot chemically, going above that can improve low end torque by improving turbo response. That was a fantastic video BTW!

[@misterkeys2893]

I really appreciate comments like this. That's really fascinating! 😲

[@MR-nl8xr]

@@misterkeys2893 It's why we read the comments.

[@jfv65]

Yes. I used to have an old Volvo 940 turbo that i converted to run on e85 using 50% larger injectors. (needed for the ECU to make sense of the lambda feedback signal) It ran really great even on high boost. Sadly they don't sell e85 anymore where i live. 😢 But at present hey do sell e10 (euro95) and it runs fine in the car i drive today (a lexus hybrid)

[@dickJohnsonpeter]

the mid-grade gasoline at a certain gas station chain where I live is less expensive but has 20% ethanol. My turbocharged car seems to like it just fine so that's good. I am about four days in to testing the milage I get out of it VS low and high grade. I ran it dry and put in 1 gallon of low grade then drove around my neighborhood (stop and go) and recorded the milage. After it was thoroughly empty and wouldn't start I took another gallon from a gas can in my trunk, put that in and took it on the highway and ran it dry. I added enough gas again to get home and now I have to do the same for cheap mid (20% ethanol) and high grade.

[@jefftravis384]

I have a twin turbo charged gas engine and I have the option of ethanol free gas at 88 octane. I live in the Denver colorado area so high altitude. Is running regular e10 gasoline better than running ethanol free in high altitude?

[@julianomse]

This is known here in Brazil since the 80’s. If you want to tweak your engine, specially turbocharging, you should adapt it to ethanol. And we’re using 11:1 CR in gasoline engines for a long time, because we were the first country in the world to abolish completely tetraethyl lead in 1989, substituting it by E25

[@nerd_nato564]

@@BrunoRaven Not to mention how they use absurdly inefficient corn-based ethanol, while our sugar cane ethanol is much better for the environment.

[@nerd_nato564]

@@BrunoRaven Exactly. Not to mention how corn is awful for the soil, so you either completely destroy the ecosystem or do crop rotation, making it even worse for something you need consistent production of, like fuel and food.

[@julianomse]

@@BrunoRaven We even developed the technology to cold start without the gasoline reservoir. After 40 years, we discovered that ethanol is corrosive before burning, and this is saved with nickel linings. The combustion is more complete, the deposits of carbon is slower, the oil stays clean for longer periods. I'm a nutshell, we overcame all the difficulties into sing this biofuel

[@angelg3986]

What cars do you have in Brasil? Here in Europe, I drive an old wolksvagen which would not be happy with much ethanol in the fuel, because the energy density is lower so the power is lower, because you cannot change the compression ratio - it is determined by the engine design and sizes of it's parts.

[@julianomse]

@@angelg3986 virtually, any car made here is flex fuel since the beginning of 2000’s. The consumption is 30% higher and the engines could be even more powerful (using only ethanol) due to the possibility to increase compression ratio. But they run very well with any proportion of gasoline and ethanol

[@igorschannel]

Here in Brazil our Gasoline is sold with 27% Ethanol directly from the pump and our cars are able to use any mix between Ethanol and Gasoline, we have hydrated ethanol on our pumps too. They call it "Flex Power" since you can decide on either running on Gasoline or Ethanol.

[@FullSpeed_only]

I’d love to get a Video about hE* and E*. As far as I know the Water Content reduces the Ethanolate Corrosion on Aluminium. Also it’s pretty complicated to get the Water out for no real Benefit. Taking "102" ROZ Fuel and adding E96 to it was my go to when I tried to get a Catalytic Converter working slightly better for Emissions Testing. It got better but not enough. I wouldn’t attribute it to the Fuel, because there are to many Variables. When I went over ~20% combined EtOH there was no Power with a cold Motor. As soon as the Motor was up to Temperature I didn’t feel a Difference anymore. But the ECU lacked a Knock Sensor and wasn’t tuned for more than 95 ROZ. Here in Europe you have extreme Difficulty to find FlexFuel Cars although all the Manufacturers supply South America without any Problems and Bosch makes all necessary Parts. The Companys completely negate the Existence of it. I would be interested if making EtOH from Crude Oil is comparable with making Gasoline from it. Gasoline needs complicated Processing like Cracking already. The EtOH wouldn’t be "green" but still immediately reduce Smog.

[@deleterium]

Can you imagine the RON of the base gasoline, because adding 27% ethanol it still makes the blend RON below 90? I guess it is a terrible gasoline with RON of 60...

[@xPentag0n]

And Germans are still freaked out to pump E10 instead of E5

[@victornpb]

@@overtoke yes a lot of people use 100% ethanol, and pretty much all cars sold like after 2010 ish can handle any ratio of gasoline or ethanol from 0-100.

[@DoctorHemi]

Modern engine computers are able to adjust A/F ratio and spark timing for the different ethanol blends (i.e., different total octanes). Ideally, if engines could be made to have adjustable compression ratios with ethanol mixture as well, we'd all be getting maximum power and efficiency out of our engines with whatever fuel we choose.

[@mechproject2447]

Great Video. I did a study on this when I was in college, but we we only focusing on power not efficiency. Everything you said applies, but also the cooling effect of the ethanol means that the air is denser. We had a port injected engine with boost (I forget how much boost), and we saw a temperature drop of 40°C just from before and after the fuel had been injected. This means that by the time it got the intake valves we could get more mass of air+fuel mix into the cylinder and make even more power. Yeah ethanol is pretty cool (pun intended).

[@u.e.u.e.]

You could also have mentioned: - burning velocity/point of highest pressure in the downward movement of the piston - effect of E0/E10/E30 on power and economy of non-flex vehicles - CO/NOx emissions at E0/E10/E30/E85/E100 - the ethanol content of the highest efficiency corellated with your other video about loosing energy in growing/harvesting botanicals and making ethanol from an engineer's perspective. There's still a lot to talk about ethanol use in ICEs. 😉

[@ittimjones]

Oh please do a follow up video 🙏

[@Ren_1106]

In Norway, we're using E5 and E10.

[@danafletcher2341]

Even with just 10% ethanol added to E0, the Swiss Federal Laboratory for Materials Science and Technology found that the especially health devastating ultra fine or nano particulate emissions were lowered by 97%, carbon monoxide lowered by 81%, carbon dioxide lowered by 13%, aromatic hydrocarbon emissions lowered by 67-96%, and genotoxic emissions lowered by 72%.

[@xavierpanohaya2647]

@@danafletcher2341 TIL, Thanks!

[@oldblueaccord2629]

@@danafletcher2341 You know heads are popping off today with this video... I been running 30% E85 on ALLLLL my stock OBD2 vehicles for years! Gosh I bet there just dying today Dana!

[@BimmerWon]

This is why I always drink ethanol instead of gasoline since it makes me more powerful.

[@zazugee]

xDD

[@adamb89]

I drink diesel. It doesn't combust unless I get roll-started down a hill.

[@RobKaiser_SQuest]

Sujamma vs skooma.

[@jacobrzeszewski6527]

​@RobKaiser_SQuest In Cannada it's Skookuma

[@kencarp57]

And drinking only ethanol makes me love EVERYBODY!

[@ethanwestbrook9853]

I recently finally tried first couple tanks of e85 in my 5.0 f150 and I'm surprisingly impressed. Much more throttle response and obvious overall power increase. Also seems to coast longer and faster for some reason. Seems to be happier and run even better on the e85 than on premium.

[@johnl5525]

How mas the MPG?

[@ethanwestbrook9853]

@@johnl5525 I went from 19-20 to about 14.5

[@ethanwestbrook9853]

@John L still worth it though as I can often get it a dollar cheaper

[@2seep]

Please tell me you did the appropriate mods, cause if not it could kill your engine.

[@CactusJack252]

if his engine is flex fuel capable he doesn't need to do anything. @@2seep

[@dameon2170]

The answer is alcohol

[@heavenst.murgatroyd3128]

I've been telling my therapist that for years!

[@Slithermotion]

I always said alcohol is a solition.

[@pali3329]

Its always the answer

[@johnlong1100]

More alcohol when driving

[@kalijasin]

That’s pure ethanol. drinking that it will kill you.

[@jedpratte]

Have been using e85 for 10 years now in 4cyl race applications. Have ran 90% tested pump e85 in 122CI motors at 10:1 compression at over 40 psi of boost on 62mm+ turbos. The fuel is amazing considering it costs $2.35 at the pump but performs like c16

[@bobo2186]

I gained 36hp and 55 lb/ft on my subaru wrx just from switching to e85. It went from 25 to 23mpg, but turbo spool was faster due to larger exhaust volume. If it's available, I would recommend it! It was usually about a dollar a gallon cheaper than premium and had more power. Why not? The problem as you said, is that we try to use e85 without making the engines designed for it. You can increase compression and boost with e85. Mpg isn't as bad if you build for it.

[@dansw0rkshop]

Why not? Well just make sure your vehicle's chemistry is compatible with it. Ethanol is reactive and will eat through stuff, dissolve stuff into the fuel and foul things up, etc. Modern cars that are claimed to be "flex" will have stainless fuel system parts, E-compatible rubber seals and so forth.

[@soyunpinchehuevon]

In Brazil we have around 27% Ethanol in the gasoline. For a long time we had a famous rule that said that it was worthy(in $/mile) using ethanol whenever the price was 70% of the gasoline(since most cars nowadays are flex). More efficiente engines make this ratio go up to 75%. This creates an interesting market effect that whenever gas prices go up, people tend to switch to using ethanol, making its price go up too, when gas prices go down, ethanol prices also go down. Prices tend to reach an equilibrium near that 70% ratio.

[@bigdaddymak1439]

They've done this on engine Masters several times! It runs way lower intake temps and you can force way more ethanol in the combustion chamber because the molecules are smaller!! But the downside is it takes A LOT more fuel when you use it because of the lower BTU

[@ItsVideos]

Sure. Blame it on the Brits.

[@bigdaddymak1439]

@@ItsVideos 🤣🤣🤣

[@machdaddy6451]

I remember years ago going to an IHRA event. Examining the dragsters up close I noticed their fuel plumbing was huge, compared to NHRA.

[@EngineeringExplained]

Nitromethane (used by Top Fuel dragsters) has an air-fuel ratio of 1.7:1, sooo much fuel required (about 8.6x gasoline)!

[@joshreynolds729]

So if all cars are made to run e15 after a certain year I’m sure so does that mean they can run e85 so long as you have enough pump and injector?

[@jameshaulenbeek5931]

​@@joshreynolds729 no. There are aftermarket flex fuel sensors and systems to retrofit onto vehicles, but if a vehicle wasn't designed to run E85, you shouldn't try to use it. E15 and E85 are completely different animals.

[@nothanksguy]

​@@joshreynolds729 aside from combustion differences, higher ethanol fuel requires special seals/materials in the fuel system. Ethanol can cause premature failure of soft rubber-like materials in hoses and seals.

[@koolkei]

@@joshreynolds729 what these people say. basically any e85 system can handle anything under it, or a mix. but not the other way around.

[@stickman-1]

I've been running ethanol in my vehicles for 40+ years. I learned everything you explained by trial and error. It depends greatly on the technology of the engine and the ability for the ECU to self-learn, or be programmed to take advantage of the better fuel. Also I did a lot of testing in the late 2000's on fuel economy and can report I duplicated the increase in mileage at about 25% ethanol. But I'm now running 100% e85. One thing that you will notice is if you plot diesel, ethanol and gasoline engines you'll see both diesel and ethanol make gobs of torque (non-NA engines) down low where gasoline does not. For towing, RVs', big rigs, etc this is a really big benefit. You just have to learn when to shift and not mash the gas pedal all the time and use that torque to accelerate the vehicle and this too can improve your mileage. Also there was a fantastic experiment done in the 1970's on direction injected engines (non-NA) and they discovered silly amounts of power. It was a university study and unfortunately I have lost my copy, but that is what started me on the ethanol path.

[@oldblueaccord2629]

Nice man!

[@sneaky_krait7271]

Do you also create your own ethanol?

[@stickman-1]

@@sneaky_krait7271 Not at this time. But I have a plan to do so. (Growing tomatoes. Yes, you can get ethanol from tomatoes.)

[@sneaky_krait7271]

@@stickman-1 Saw that you need a lot of organic material and very expensive hard chemicals for it to work :/ Methane captured from compost seems better, but like to hear your findings

[@mnxs]

​@@sneaky_krait7271 eh, it's not _that_ complicated. NileRed made a video where he made moonshine out of toilet paper (!), check it out. Although that process is really cumbersome if you want to produce fuel-worthy (ie., water-free) ethanol.

[@zadeh79]

Some high compression cars you can only get a good tune with Ethanol. (E30+ blends). For example, my BMW 330i G20 almost all tunes were highly boosted, and very minor timing changes because of it's knock sensitivity. I went through several tunes that felt watered down, because tuners want to play it safe with timing, but I finally got an E85 custom tune, and the car feels very powerful and smooth.

[@michaelharrison1093]

The cooling effect of pure ethanol is so significant that for top fuel dragsters they don't use conventional water cooling of the engine block which then allows the use of a billet machined block which is much stronger than requiring the hollow cooling jackets in the block.

[@ughmas]

Pretty sure top fuel uses Nitromethane and Methanol not ethanol, the same cooling principle applies though you are correct

[@EngineeringExplained]

Is it a cooling thing, or a duration of heat thing? They obviously make extraordinary amounts of heat, but it's only for ~4 seconds, and then the engine is rebuilt, so having a dedicated cooling system may not be needed.

[@WyFoster]

@@EngineeringExplained You're correct, they make a tremendous amount of heat. But the engine block is a sink. Trust me it's hot when it's finished a pass! I have a drag bike that runs on methanol and nitro blend. It's very hot when you're done. Same principle, solid block.

[@BillyWillicker]

@@EngineeringExplained In that level of racing the engine is considered a consumable, just like the fuel.

[@mikejohnson4617]

@@BillyWillicker $$$$$$$$

[@scottaseigel5715]

All very interesting, but there’s another number that I care far more about, mi/$. This determines my operating cost. It turns out my Ram 1500 runs most cheaply (i.e. gets the highest mi/$ ) using ethanol free premium which ironically costs the most per gallon! It travels 490 miles on a $120 tank of EFP versus just 315 on $98 tank of E85.

[@hcut2k4]

That wouldn't be the case if it were tuned for higher ethanol contents and you used a non-etandard blend. The last point he made -- 91 with 10% ethanol isn't the same as the 91 you're running but with 10% ethanol. It's blended to reach an effective 91 because of the added ethanol. If instead you put in 75% 87 e10 and 25% e85 and had your Ram tuned to take advantage of the higher octane and cooling properties (not using fuel enrichment, increased ignition timing) costs per mile driven would be much lower for this hypothetical e25 blend verse the non-ethanol premium you are using. But that probably isn't practical or realistic, so your point is well taken. Lastly, engines can benefit much more from ethanol if they are boosted versus NA. So your Ram isn't going to see the same efficiency gains as the Ecoboost Ford in the examples he mentioned.

[@umakemerandy3669]

​@@hcut2k4 or like the ford testing where they increased compression ratio to basically 12:1

[@scottaseigel5715]

@@hcut2k4 good to know. As a math teacher I first observed this because I live in rural Montana and our distances between gas stations make it wise to always fill up whenever we get the chance and to maximize how far we can drive on a tank. One of my students observed that I should also be producing less carbon dioxide per mile, but I said that depends on the array of combustion equations and all the constituent by fractions; however, I suspect she is right.

[@sierraecho884]

It´s because your engine is not build for E85 specifically and thus does not profit as much.

[@scottaseigel5715]

@@sierraecho884 my friend’s car is E85 optimized and she says it’s a gas hog. I’m beginning to really doubt the whole concept as seeming more like a political or publicity stunt than a valuable practicality. Do they actually produce less CO2 per mile driven? Is ethanol production less harmful than petroleum production?

[@upshifter5316]

I flippin love this channel and every second of this video! Been running an E20 blend in my 3.5 ecoboost for a little while now and this vid just scientifically backs up my rudimentary impression from doing so. So the Ford study here is eerily relevant for me. Thanks for another banger Jason!

[@yurimbarbosa0]

Hi everyone. Here in Brazil we use e27~e25. And sugar cane ethanol, not corn one. I heard from some tuners who says we had a best alcohol/ethanol I the world. I saw a tuned 992 gt3 lowered a lot exhaust temps and increased power using e50 mixture, resulting in a cooler combustion.

[@andyharman3022]

I tested extensively in 2022 with different Ethanol blends in my Buick Verano turbo, trying to find the lowest cost mix in terms of cents per mile. The Verano turbo requires 91 octane, but in my region of southern Michigan, premium gas is $1.00 more expensive than regular gas, and E85 is 50 cents per gallon cheaper than regular gas. I really liked the idea of running my car on fuel that has higher octane than premium, but costing less than regular. At the same time, I was leery of putting less energy in my tank and the effect on fuel economy. Over a period of 7 months, I ran 75 tanks of fuel on E85/Regular blends ranging from 30% to 100% E85. I found that fuel economy on pure E85 dropped about 23%, and didn't have much economic benefit over running premium gas. But in the range of 40-50% E85 mixed with regular I found that my fuel cost per mile was about 9% less. This is important to me, as my work commute has me driving ~34000 miles per year all by itself. I stopped doing the E85 tank blends during the winter because it is a major pain having to run two credit card transactions at the pump when it is 25F and blowing snow.

[@oldblueaccord2629]

Im 100% right there with you on everything you said. Even the two transaction thing at the pump I have had my card shut off after the first. I guess there worried about fraud. I think 30% is the sweet spot for OBD2 cars.

[@ericlotze7724]

Can we get a Dimethyl Ether video? I am LOVING these fuel focused videos, and giving our Compression Ignition Engines a bit of this format would be amazing!

[@Kanaval89]

E85 FTW! I converted my E36 to E85. Swapped to a bigger fuel pump, lines, and went from 42 to 80lb injectors. It was previously knock limited at about 10psi and could only run 6deg btdc based on the knock sensors. Making somewhere in the 350whp range. Now it's running 16psi and 12deg btdc and is around 500whp on totally stock internals. Power is rod-limited at this point. Fuel mileage went from 22avg to 15avg. Now I want to E85 all the things. Only thing that sucks is finding the stuff. And the price fluctuates wildly.

[@giuseppec8158]

May I suggest adding water injection ? Not water and methanol , just distilled water. Helps further reducing temps

[@anotherperspective6247]

E15 has now been approved for year-round sale in seven US midwestern states. No we won't get to the optimal ethanol/petrol mix on the graph for power/mix but it's a heck of a start in the right direction at long last. Makes the Elantra N look better if it can take advantage of the new fuel mix.

[@flavioc5389]

In Brazil we have E100 in the pump since the early 80’s. I personally used ethanol on my 2-stroke racing go-kart. Not only you could run a higher compression ratio, but also the engine (air cooled) would run at lower temperatures.

[@johnjohnson9658]

What ratio did you mix it with 2 stroke oil

[@mokxafitx]

Legit thanful for this, im planning to build a few ethanol fuelled bikes in my country for the farmers to use with cheap homemade ethanol... This video saved me a lot of research work 🙌🏻🙌🏻

[@jameshenson4871]

I've been running E85 for years- I mean years! I have actually seen fuel economy have minimal losses or none on this fuel due to the increased timing , etc. Thanks for doing this video on E85.I really enjoyed it.

[@oldblueaccord2629]

I loose 18-22% on a stock Honda motor.

[@OtisFlint]

Lol, you can't recover the MPG by adding timing. That's not how it works, mathematical impossibility.

[@oldblueaccord2629]

@@OtisFlint More timing, more power ,better fuel burn?

[@jameshenson4871]

@OtisFlint I didn't say timing alone, and I also said minimal losses. Please read in it entirety and stop misleading the conversation by only quoting part of what i said. In my statement there was a lot to unpack. Please note that I have tuned countless cars on my dyno and currently run E85 in my own project. Will you still have losses? Absolutely. Some can be offset by doing certain things within the tune. I have also noticed that the more stock the combination, the harder it is to recover fuel economy.

[@Treyk901]

I run a E50 blend of E85 and 93 gas in my F-150 3.5 Ecoboost. It’s making 553rwhp and 617rwtq. Stock tuning on 87 gas is 330rwhp and 415rwtq. So HUGE gains using ethanol.

[@THe9-3MAnIaC]

And your engine last longer

[@Treyk901]

@@THe9-3MAnIaC idk about longevity but so far I have 144k tuned miles on this engine and it’s been flawless.

[@pedroa.f.c.590]

Great explanation my friend..specially for us here in BRAZIL...we have plenty sugarcane E100 in every gas station...tks for this brillant explanation...

[@aabeckcontrols5464]

I had a flex-fuel Chevy SUV that had more acceleration with E85 than with gasoline, and got the same MPG for E85 & gas so it was less expensive to get more power

[@pauld6967]

Well, that final tidbit, about the blend starting at a lower gas RON to end up with the "correct" number once ethanol is added, answers my puzzlement about why I have seen a m.p.g. drop the few times I had to use Regular (which the car is rated for) instead of Premium,....when I have always seen people say in videos that "Premium is a marketing gimmick. It won't make a noticeable difference in a car set to run on Regular."

[@oldblueaccord2629]

Every car I ever owned got better mileage with premium fuel except one a 1999 Chevy Astro van V6.

[@tomstanley7772]

Thanks. Now I a Better understanding of how Ethanol gets the upper hand over gas. I knew it was there and as a teenager we played with it from time to time and could feel the difference but never fully understood how it did it. And yes we did get heavy handed on the ethanol mix with a stock carb more than once. But we had fun.

[@donmerrigan2362]

My car has consistently made about 15% more power and tq on e65 compared to 93 oct. An additional 75 whp and wtq is a substantial gain on any car. The down side is gas mileage though. You use about 1/3 more fuel but at the same time it costs about 1/3 less 93 oct. I love my car on ethanol. It's like the gas of the gods or something.

[@volvo09]

I miss having easy access to e85.... I ran my car exclusively on it for like 8 years. Now I'm hundreds of miles away from a pump.

[@donmerrigan2362]

​@@volvo09 when I first started using it I was 30 minutes from the closest station. Every 1-2 weeks I would go fill my tank and 4 6 gallon cans to use before coming back. That probably isn't an option for you but one ethanol and probably others let you order 55 gallon drums of the stuff shipped right to your house. You just need to get a manual or electric pump to get the gas out of the can and into your car or portable gas can.

[@dmoqppsoysc]

what car do you have?

[@donmerrigan2362]

@@dmoqppsoysc 08 wrx sti.

[@danielstoscup755]

Huge fan of ethanol, I put a flex fuel kit on my Hemi Ram and felt some benefits. Smells nice too. People with N/A 5.0 Mustangs are seeing big power jumps too.

[@T4nkcommander]

I'm a nuclear engineer and while very interested in vehicles, I have little patience to spend much time thinking these things through in-depth (got enough work as it is). I always appreciate how thorough, succinct, and information-filled your videos are. Keep up the good work as always. On a related note, was that 3.5L Eco the HO from my Raptor? If so I need to refresh myself on what mixtures my engine will tolerate. Always nice to have a bit more power....

[@cameronswan8646]

I think nuclear power plants are super cool! 60% of my provinces power is from nuclear plants. Bruce power is the biggest nuclear plant in North America (I think?) Candus are cool!

[@NoahBuddyIsReal]

Lol and you call yourself an engineer

[@NoahBuddyIsReal]

If you don’t have a thorough understanding of the process then you just push the buttons lol Homer Simpson

[@hiya2112]

​@@NoahBuddyIsRealhe said he had enough work to do already as to why he didn't spend extra time on fuel compression ratios, his area of expertise is different. Did you read his statement or did you rush through it thinking of how you could troll him?

[@l77scmaro2]

Actually, in terms of the benefit of alchohol cooling the air charge helping to make more power, we see a greater benefit when the fuel is introduced sooner, for example, with a carburetor or injectors at the throttle body at the beginning of the intake manifold. On a dyno a "wet" intake almost always makes more power than a "dry" (port and/or direct injected intake) on the same engine. The reason is it takes time for heat to transfer - for the heat to be "pulled out" of the air by the fuel. That said, direct injection is more efficient in terms of fuel efficiency and knock resistance but this is one of those cases where there is a tradeoff. It's why methonal and nitro engines inject some of the fuel before the supercharger rather then all at the port.

[@BryanSeigneur0]

Simply awesome explaining. I've got an E85 Grand Caravan engine purring at 275,000 miles and I always attribute its hardiness to the bi-fuel over-specification of the engineering. I also have noticed it has two heat levels when I look under the hood after a trip: pleasantly hot and disconcertingly hotter. I wouldn't be surprised if this corresponds to which type of fuel is in the tank (E85 & gas respectively). That's a huge difference in evaporative cooling.

[@ShainAndrews]

It's in your head...

[@oldblueaccord2629]

@@ShainAndrews Time to find another hobby...

[@TheAbyss79]

Also ethanol = using food for fuel. Translate that into farm land for food being used for fuel.

[@patriotmonkey9818]

Ethanol is only used to kill this country. Destroy our farmlands, water, fuel economy, seals and gaskets, oil reserves , economy , political power ,...on and on...

[@danafletcher2341]

Nope, our ethanol is value-added from already existing feed production which leaves 100% of the protein and other things still available for feed in a healthier, more digestible/efficient, and more concentrated form called distillers grains. This is how ethanol can remain so cheap despite the current high price for corn. No corn is grown just for ethanol because it would be uneconomical. All the fertilizer and things in the soil are still fed to livestock in the distillers grain. Ethanol is made only of thing in the air: solar energy, CO2, & water with the latter two being recycled once burnt. Cattle cannot digest starch very well and waste it out their rear ends in the form of methane gas and carb rich manure which turn into methane later.

[@TheAbyss79]

@Dana Fletcher too bad "our ethanol " isn't the same as ALL or everyone's methanol. But I do appreciate what you are saying.

[@Monaleenian]

@@danafletcher2341 What are you talking about? Your comment is gibberish. There is a huge amount of corn that is grown solely for the purpose of producing ethanol in the US. You seem to be woefully misinformed.

[@danafletcher2341]

@@Monaleenian Corn ethanol without the feed factor is uneconomical to produce. We cannot grow more corn than the protein requirements of the cattle herd on feed. With the feed factor, corn ethanol can outcompete even sugarcane despite it making much more ethanol but little else. So much so that Brazil has put an import tariff on our ethanol. Believe it or not, the corn belt grew more corn acres in 1980 before ethanol than they do today with record ethanol production and ethanol plants everywhere. 2018 Iowa 13,200,000 acres of corn with record ethanol production 1980 Iowa 14,000,000 acres of corn before ethanol 2018 Illinois 11,000,000 acres of corn with record ethanol production 1980 Illinois 11,600,000 acres of corn before ethanol 2018 Indiana 5,350,000 acres of corn with record ethanol production 1980 Indiana 6,450,000 acres of corn before ethanol

[@KarzKreated]

I've been running an Ethanol blend (E20-E40) for a while now in my Mustang. No difference in real world mpg over E10. The only differences I notice is, cheaper fill ups, more torque, and most importantly, more smiles 😄

[@ALMX5DP]

Is that something you’re able to find at a local station? I don’t think I’ve seen blends that high outside of the very few e85 stations around me.

[@nuut_]

@@ALMX5DP Just fill up with 2 gas pistols?

[@jonathansmith7306]

​@@ALMX5DP You can mix E85 and E10 to get those blends with a little math

[@ALMX5DP]

@@jonathansmith7306 for a race car that should be fine but for a road car seems a little fussy.

[@SupraSav]

Torque and smiles usually have a 1:1 ratio

[@jonnylivesinbr]

In Brazil most cars are flexfuel, that means they can run on gasoline and on ethanol. They have two different power figures on the manual at the same time 116/125 hp for example.

[@rynoopperman5010]

In Africa it is Diesel. Less complicated, less mpg, more power

[@sierraecho884]

They introduced E10 in Germany fairly recently but it would lead to problems in the engine, since E10 is way more corrosive for the hoses and other engine parts. Have you had similar experiences ? I am never filling up with E10, but with E5 instead for which my car is build 100% for sure, for E10 ..maybe.

[@13231wmw]

@@sierraecho884 You'd better follow the manufacturer's recommendations. Some imported cars fare rather poorly in Brazil, due to their powertrains not being prepared for the national E27 standard. If your car is able to handle higher ethanol blends, you should not fear any abnormal degradation. Technically, most European cars could be flex-fuel, as Bosch and most European brands manufacture flex-fuel compliant parts for Brazilian models.

[@AfonsoBucco]

@@13231wmw i THINK even non-flex now-days stock vehicles can deal with a bit of alcohol, once most of them do lambda correction, so when you put a bit of alcohol the mixture start to be poor, but quickly the ECU will compensate increasing injection time.

[@andrelange9877]

​@@AfonsoBucco Non flexfuel cars will do that up to a certain point and then you get a check engine light lit on the dash because of lean mixture.

[@mapmanlxii1715]

In my Chevy truck naturally aspirated I run either E10 or E15 which is readily available here, i notice absolutely no change in MPG which surprises me, pehaps Jason's explanation is the reason! MPG between the various tankfuls is more dependent on highway or city driving.

[@rgolab3174]

For those wondering why Jason's premium gasoline number is so high (97vs typical 93 or 91 octane), when Jason gave octane rating numbers, he gave RON octane ratings (displayed at gas stations in Europe) which are higher than (R+M)/2 ratings, which are displayed at U.S. gas stations. Most European stations have 2 gasoline types, 98 and 95 octane which are equivalent to U.S. 93 and 91 octane. So in essence... they only sell premium.

[@SoybeanAK]

Jason's using every possible combination of international and U.S. units just to trigger the metric bois, and I am here for it.

[@anydaynow01]

And the Freedumb unit bois!

[@BigSunnyMac]

Why would anyone logically be against metric 😂

[@SocialDownclimber]

I live in a metric country and I actually think he uses a really good balance of imperial and metric units to suit the units typically used by his audience to interpret the quantities he describes. My only quibble with this video was actually between two metric units. Not super keen on using KWh to compare the heat of combustion of two hydrocarbons. I would prefer that he used kJ, but I'm sure he had his reasons.

[@dodecahedron1]

@@SocialDownclimber megajoules, 1 kwh is 3.6mj

[@PFIBrent]

great video ! I so love tuning on ethanol, you can always just feel how much smoother they run . Some of those knock tests you talked about would be fun , may have to just try it and see how much further we can push our stuff.

[@blakbanshee]

This guy makes me regret doing drugs when I was younger.

[@bdpilot28]

Yep! Pot destroys brain cells! I work with a blonde female pot head. Just imagine that?

[@mikechiodetti4482]

I had heard that Ethanol ran cooler in the combustion chamber, but it wasn't until Jason explained the cooling effect plus the higher compression, higher boost and more timing that it all clicked and now I understand it. THANK YOU!

[@socool775]

I’ve been a die-hard E85 user since December 2012. My only issue with it is how hard it is to find when I travel. There are plenty of pumps here in southern Michigan, but that changes once I head north - with no E85 at all in the upper peninsula. I’ve been able to make treks into the UP work by carrying at least a tank’s worth (in my case, 19 gallons) of E85 in the trunk, and driving just across the state line into Wisconsin to get fuel at Kwik Trip (KT has added stores in the UP, but only with E15. Apparently E85 demand suddenly evaporates as soon as you cross back into Michigan). However, I went to northern Vermont to witness the eclipse over Lake Champlain in April 2024. On the way, I drove up to Ottawa to tour parliament, Toronto to walk EdgeWalk on CN Tower, and then up to Montreal the day after the eclipse. None of this area has any E85 AT ALL, and it is not feasible for me to carry enough extra fuel to stay exclusively on E85. I switched to Canadian tar sands (I could spend an entire day talking about how destructive the Canadian tar sands are to the environment, and how costly they are to extract and process). Within 36 hours, I noticed my engine idling rough. I initially thought it was odd to hear that when I was in Toronto and again in Montreal, especially since the air temperature never exceeded 60 degrees F at any point on my trip. However, I managed to ignore it and keep driving. I kid you not when I say that the second I hit the international border, with the “Welcome to the USA” sign above me as I was crossing into Port Huron, Michigan, I get an alarm on my Taurus’ dashboard that says “engine coolant overtemperature”. I immediately go to Speedway to fill the half-full tank with E85 and I begin the process of transitioning the fuel back. I decided to try driving with the hood popped open (no, it can’t fly up while I’m driving), and within two minutes of driving, the engine temperature magically and abruptly fell back to the normal level. The next day, I get halfway to work when the check-engine shows up and the car starts jerking. After 15 minutes of sitting in a conveniently-placed parking lot off a country road, I open the coolant cap to see the compartment empty. After a few days, I finally get the car inspected. They got me an answer within two hours. I should have been tipped off when the first thing that I heard from the mechanic was “so what are your long-term plans for this car”. He told me that it needs a new water pump, and some other suspension-related repairs (I live in Michigan. Enough said). Between all that, I was quoted just south of $8k. I work two jobs, between being a special education paraprofessional, and gig work with Shipt. I told the mechanic I don’t even have 1/10 of that. Against my better judgment, I started driving the car again. With the hood popped open and the car back to entirely E85 fuel, the CEL was mysteriously gone when I started my car the next morning. The engine still idles rough, but not as easily or as frequently. It turns out that E85 has a higher latent heat when combusted, meaning it absorbs heat off of the engine. I will admit that it’s not a wise idea to drive without a working water pump (one-finger salute to Ford for putting that inside the 3.5L engine in my Taurus), but I have absolutely no way of coming up with $8,000. E85 is at least allowing me to delay those repairs while I sort things out.

[@coreyscolaro288]

Jason been watching your videos for years at this point, don't know if I've left a comment yet but figured I'd stop hy and say thank you for all the great content. Best auto education channel by far 👍

[@joshm3875]

I would have liked to see more discussion on ethanol's oxygen content. All things being equal (timing, compression, boost) an engine STILL makes more power on ethanol, it is my understanding this is because it's highly oxygenated. It also seems because of the oxygen content it gives the lower air/fuel ratio and thus less energy? I'd like to see something about why engines make more power on highly oxygenated fuels with all other parameters being equal.

[@oldblueaccord2629]

I agree I thought the xtra oxygen is what made one of the differences.

[@joshm3875]

@@oldblueaccord2629 I've seen some other comparisons that suggest it makes a difference. I do not fully understand the relationship of oxygen wtihin fuel, the air/fuel ratio, and power output though.

[@SouthMainAuto]

Well done Jason! 🤯

[@atrumluminarium]

That E20 (if using decent ON gasoline) seems like a sweet deal. More efficient, more power and if the ethanol is sensibly sourced, lower fossil emissions.

[@YouTube_Executive_01]

Best explanation ive ever seen for ethanol vs gas

[@elmzsni]

12:42 so in other other words, only if you took E0 - 91RON and added 10% ethanol would you realize the aforementioned efficiency increase. Great information, thank you sir. Now where can i get some super premium E0 around the Philadelphia area :D

[@hcut2k4]

In my area it is really expensive. Usually a dollar more per gallon than e10 91.

[@gtrguyinaz]

Simple.. octane is 110… I make 800 whp on E and 630 on pump..

[@daleellis8968]

Great video! I have two questions. Does E85 have any adverse effects on the catalytic converter? Are all of these power enhancements the same for methanol ? Keep up the good work!

[@volvo09]

I don't believe so. I ran my car on e85 for 100k miles and left the cat in. Car has 140k on it now and I had to switch back to gasoline, but the cat is still good. Ethanol burns very clean, it's probably better for the cat if I could make an uneducated guess. My oil, spark plugs, stayed very clean on ethanol.

[@mohammadyaqoob746]

Why would it affect the catalytic covertor? Ethanol based fuel can only lead to an increase chance of rusting and more wear and tear as Ethanol is a water based liquid

[@maciejsn2126]

It won’t as ethanol burns cleaner than regular gasoline leaving even less soot

[@maciejsn2126]

If You search a bit on this channel there is a video about damages to engine caused by different fuels, and ethanol performs best. Just watch it

[@maciejsn2126]

@@mohammadyaqoob746 You didn’t do Your homework. Ethanol leaves less damages than other fuels🤷‍♂️

[@jiyushugi1085]

This is why many WWII fighters were equipped with methanol injection, they could run higher manifold pressures and make more power during dogfights without detonation destroying the engines. Reno air racers too, of course. (methanol/water mixes, and other concoctions were also used)

[@BogeyTheBear]

American open wheel race cars (CART, IRL, Champ Cars, and now IndyCar) have been racing on alcohol fuels for decades. They switched from gasoline for fire safety, and they ran 100% methanol and then ethanol. The reason they use E85 today is because the additional gasoline has the advantage of making any open flames visible in daylight, as fuel fires in previous years were invisible (a pit crew who got a flash-up would do a Ricky Bobby impersonation).

[@ailisonrochadecarvalho8812]

Americans running on a type of fuel that the whole Brazil has been running on since the 90's. Funny.

[@stevegaspar]

A full lecture done in 12 min haha well done.

[@me0101001000]

I'd be very curious to see a phase diagram of the components. I think that would be able to provide a lot of information! I'd imagine there must be some kind of eutectic point for vaporisation.

[@robertb6889]

Gases don't have eutectics. You physically can't get phase separation in a gas. You can get azeotropes, which are similar, in liquid-vapor systems. They are significant for water-alcohol mixtures, which is why 100% alcohol is usually toxic and denatured (190 proof/95% max from standard distilling). For air and alcohol they're not significant if they even exist due to the wide difference in temperatures.

[@RealDougFields]

I have a CL55 with a bunch of mods. I get between 10 and 17 mpg on my (607rwhp) gas tune depending on use and have never seen less than 6 mph even when beating on it. My E85 tune (675 rwhp) never got better than 10 mpg and got as little as 2-3 mpg when beating on it. It was crazy the differences..I went to E85 for more power but in the end I am back on 93 octane gas. The M113K is limited to around 17psi of boost and the ECM has torque limiting maximums built in to it so making power is all about the tuning and making power early. So maybe E85 was not as much of a benefit.

[@Datsun510zen]

I had been building and racing NA engine cars for decades, but got tired of having my lunch eaten by all the turbo guys. Granted, there was a steep learning curve in making the jump to forced induction. Then again when converting to e85, but getting all the gains I've experienced, I'll never looked back. Originally, to make the desired HP out of a 2.0L 4 cylinder for track use, I was running it on 98 race gas with a GT3071R turbo making 24 psi. Lag was completely ridiculous, even with variable control from the ECU, power came on like an on/off switch at 4.5K rpm, and with sustained boost, heat sink was a constant issue. Not ideal for a track car, but switching to e85 turned out to be the magic sauce. I was able to get more power out of a smaller GTX2867R at 22 psi. It's now making positive boost at 2.5K rpm with the flat linear power curve of a NA V8 engine, and I've never had heat issues since. What's most impressive after switching over, after 5 seasons of thrashing on it, with regular maintenance my engine is still running strong. From beginning with research to my own personal experience, this fuel has far surpassed my wildest expectations. I doubt you'd see the same results from a daily driver, but in this vid you can see why e85 has truly earned it's reputation as "absolute turbo crack" in the racing community.

[@oldblueaccord2629]

Good deal!

[@shootermcgavin2819]

resistance to detonation

[@unclemarksdiyauto]

Super explanation. I always heard that Ethanol was evil. You logic & the white board demonstration helped me see that adding Ethanol and messing with engine tech can produce more power. Without the last few minutes of your conclusion, I would still have not changed my mind! Thanks for teaching this old dog a new trick!

[@RobertSzasz]

Ethanol is a really nice nearly nontoxic additive to boost RON.

[@jacobcarlson4010]

In my experience, those who try to demonize a technology (whether it’s EVs, ethanol, biodiesel, whatever) it’s usually someone who stands to benefit financially from you avoiding the “evil” technology; whatever it may be.

[@gatergates8813]

Main problem with ethanol as i see it is it takes a great deal of energy to make and growing corn solely for fuel takes up farmland that would be better used to grow food. Oh, and it rots rubber seals much faster than petrol. And it's hydrophilic, drawing water into the fuel from the air if it sits too long

[@karlrovey]

​@@gatergates8813 It's corn that wouldn't be grown for food anyway. The leftovers from ethanol production can still be used for animal feed (though grains in general aren't good for most livestock aside from chickens).

[@gatergates8813]

@Karl Rovey I'm talking about the land the corn is grown on, not the grain itself- I'm aware it's specially bred for ethanol production. I worked at a grainery for 4 years and heard farmers do rough calculations that they burn more fuel planting, maintaining, harvesting, and drying the crop than the crop itself would actually produce. But they grew it anyways because of government incentives, while laughing at how backwards it is to burn 10 L of diesel to create 5 L of ethanol

[@ryridesmotox]

I remember running an E47 tune (roughly 50/50 of 91 octane and E85) in my Cobalt SS with a turbo 2.0. I looked like a mad scientist when I was pulling 2 different pumps out for one fillup. But it was worth it for all of the horsepower because I could run like 26psi and more advance than the running straight standard 91 octane cat piss here in California.

[@Mid2stars]

I used this in my non ethanol fuel cars. Never had an issue. I would not use it in a 90s cars. No kits nothing. All engine lasted over 150,000 miles. Only issue was cold start up and a lean code which did nothing. Regular gas back in and check engine light goes away. No there is no damage! Don't ask! Nothing broke

[@ShadowVR30]

Been running an E30 blend on my turbo charged direct injection car for nearly two years via a flex fuel kit. Love the extra power and in my area E85 is about $1/gallon cheaper than 93octane.

[@SupraSav]

Ethanol is cool in general. Higher consumption means hard no for me - also not available in Canada at many places. Also, heard many guys complaining about having to do maintenance/tune ups more often due to plugs getting fouled quicker.

[@ericlotze7724]

Main issue is when it get’s water in it do you need more stainless etc. Most modern engines do that, and once that is done it is less of an issue. I am unsure on what spark plugs are made of, but that may be part of the issue?

[@frjhracing]

It's inherently hydroscopic (readily absorbs water) and also will separate if left for some time - which leads to those stories of needing to replace fuel system parts. It's really only a fuel for racing/power/etc. Theres no economy in it. Even EE talked about how bad it was even compared to cellulosic ethanol and other alternative fuels when the government was looking into alternatives en-mass. Some people get to caught up into the "mooar power = moar better". But these flex fuel cars and ethanol sold as "economical" is just a scam. Though fortunately, the scam resulted in mass producing a race fuel you can pump near you (sometimes) :)

[@SmoothCruizer37]

Exactly .... it really is a dirty fuel solution

[@anydaynow01]

@@frjhracing Yep and a relatively cheap race fuel at that. One of the best decisions I made was to swap over to E85 for my trackday car. I wanted to convert my old Chevy over to it also but like you said it doesn't do well sitting around so I think the synthfuel will be better for antiques, especially if they can be tailor made to a certain octane level without using ethanol and will probably come with good quality stabilizers.

[@brianb-p6586]

I've never seen E85 at all in Canada; some reports say that there are only four stations with it in the entire country - all in British Columbia. There is also no E15 or E25. The difference between Canada and the USA in this respect is likely the level of government interest in promoting corn production (corn is the grain most commonly used for ethanol production for fuel).

[@klaasdeboer8106]

I can allso burn ethanol on my bicycle, but it affects the steering.

[@cylisbarre7202]

Would love to know your thoughts on running CNG/Natural Gas. I’ve seen conversions for full size pickups/SUVs running a tank in place of the spare. The fuel is le$$ than petroleum gasoline though the conversion has costs. Thanks for the awesome content!

[@Skylancer727]

From what I've seen on CNG the main issue is just range. Much like hydrogen it's hard to get a lot of range out of a gaseous fuel. I have seen though that CNG does tend to have the advantage of longer engine life, cheaper fuel, and the fact you may even have natural gas at your home to tap into, but I haven't seen if the cost savings are actually worth it. I mean yeah they're cheaper to fill, but does that break even per mile? I think it's more one of those cool experiments like those running cars on vegetable oil. Advantage of that one is you can literally go to random restaurants for their waste oil, downside is it need to be heated or it solidifies and you have to filter waste oil.

[@dansw0rkshop]

Or also, what about direct injection of LNG? Man, the heat of vaporization there.

[@flower5153]

I have been driving several vehicles on ethanol since 2006 without any problem. Now I love E85 on my GT86. Cheap racing fuel!

[@accabelo]

Really cool and interesting content, thank you! In Brazil pretty much all vehicles run either in ethanol or gasoline. Our regular gasoline is E27 and the government now wants to allow E30. I personally use ethanol on a daily basis as it doesn’t make much difference in fuel consumption driving in urban areas in an automatic car

[@Hybris51129]

I am actually curious about the synthetic fuel that I think Shell and Porchse are developing in Chilie. Could we see higher octane fuels because of the synthetic nature of the process? It would be interesting if one day we could get 120 octane pump gas and run far higher levels of boost in turbocharged cars.

[@jonathansmith7306]

Synthetic fuels are going to mostly come in low-octane diesel. Without mixing ethanol, it's much more difficult to get high octane numbers. 93 octane gasoline is equivalent to 90 octane with all the ethanol removed.

[@williamebrahim2612]

Yes currently at the Porsche facility they make a heavy and light gasoline when they are making fuel but they mix them to produce the synthetic fuel. So if you only use the light gasoline, without mixing, then the octane would be much higher

[@AlldaylongRock]

It's possible. When making things synthetically, you can tailor the process to get whatever compounds you want. Tests done in the Naval Research Lab for mil-spec aviation fuel (meant to be powered by a ship's nuclear reactor) show a better concentration of the lighter hydrocarbons. You can then oligomerize them into larger stuff. And a cost of less than $3/gallon.

[@playgt326]

85% of bioethanol mixed with 15% of synthetic gasoline 👌🏻

[@MrAevus]

good idea :-)

[@playgt326]

​@@MrAevus And now it could gets reality 😉

[@MsHojat]

Another thing to mention as a side note is that physics/math/science aside, ethanol is also a renewable fuel that won't cause warming.

[@ghostwrench2292]

Another benefit of running E85 is the exhaust from an engine running it smells sweet. I love that smell!

[@oldblueaccord2629]

Moonshine!

[@jayreiter268]

Same with methanol. We were running a big Jimmy on methanol. It had 5 Stromberg 97's. Re jetting had little effect. To pass the amount of fuel needed carb passage ways had to be drilled larger. .

[@volvo09]

There was a cool paper I read from Ford where they did testing on a dual fuel system, with the engine running on 87octane gasoline, but when you got on the throttle a bit of e85 from a small tank was injected to combat knock and cool the intake charge.

[@igrluz]

Haram... you're one fuel pump/injector failure away from overheating your engine.

[@EngineeringExplained]

Neat!

[@volvo09]

@@igrluz no, you just limit airflow into the engine, so it would operate under reduced power. That's the mode it was designed to operate in if you let the e85 tank run out, or you couldn't find any. you can run a high performance engine on regular gasoline, you just can't put a heavy load on the engine or else knock shows up. Limiting max manifold pressure with the electric throttle body would be easy with software.

[@AndrejPodzimek]

Each time I take a sip of ethanol, I suddenly have a huge lot of power!

[@redpanda9141]

Hey Jason , when you apply the brakes just a little bit in a dct, does it disengage the clutch completely. What if press the both accelerator and brake ,what happens to the clutch then?

[@jonathansmith7306]

It would only disengage at ~1000 rpm in gear 1, right? Any other gear it should just downshift before the revs go too low

[@FSXgta]

It's probably in gear to save fuel, if you clutch in you will idle and burn fuel

[@ALMX5DP]

@@jonathansmith7306 that’s what I would think, though I’m sure each manufacturer tunes theirs a little differently. No idea what happens if you’re driving and hit the gas and brake at the same time though, but likely it won’t disengage the clutch until it determines you need to shift like you said.

[@jonathansmith7306]

​@@ALMX5DP for the second question, if you hit both the accelerator and brake at the same time, the controller would probably measure which direction the tachymeter goes. If you are able to keep the needle still, it won't matter because it won't have to shift

[@EngineeringExplained]

Brakes won't trigger the clutch to open in DCT; if you're at speed it will remain in gear. If you're at a low speed (inching, very low speeds) the clutch will slip to allow for the lower speed (we're talking under 3-5 mph or so, where the engine speed would be too low for the current vehicle speed). RE gas & brake, depends on the make. Some allow it, some will say "they want brakes." Either way the clutch is likely engaged unless you're at a very low speed.

[@_RobertS]

For a couple of years now I've had an Audi that from factory can run any blend of regular gas/petrol and E85. I find the fuel consumption to be about 20-25% higher in the summer, but 25-35% higher in the winter, running E85 instead of E10. The increased cooling effect of the ethanol surely explains most of that, it takes noticeably longer to reach optimal operating temperature on E85, especially in the winter. And the longer drives I make, the smaller the difference. So cold starts is the biggest issue with E85. At the pumps I usually just multiply the E85 price per liter by 1.3 to see if it's practically cheaper than the regular E10. Usually it's suspiciously close between the two, but sometimes it's actually quite a difference (in either direction) and then it's nice to have the option. The factory engine mapping provides no performance benefit from different fuels in different conditions, it's just been programmed to always feel the same for the driver I'm sure. After-market engine maps could give it a SIGNIFICANT power increase for E10, but the stock fuel injectors cant flow enough to get the same increase for E85. An increase yes, but smaller rather than larger as the fuel would theoretically suggest.

[@oldblueaccord2629]

I used 30% larger injectors in my Honda but your car may have enough injector to do it.

[@davidphillips3953]

Modern flex fuel vehicles are severely compromised in order to run on gasoline without ethanol. To get maximum efficiency (MPG) from ethanol fuel the engine needs to be optimized for ethanol but they could never be run on pump gasoline fuel if they were. E-85 can easily stand 4 or 5 points higher compression ratio (higher compression gives more efficiency through greater expansion and less surface area absorbing the heat as well as the air and fuel molecules being closer together and more likely to find one another quickly and burn before the exhaust valve opens and releases the pressure) more than pump gas but if you ever ran pump gas in an engine with 4 points higher compression it would detonate severely and destroy itself very quickly. They could easily go from a max of about 11 to 1 compression with pump gasoline to 15 to 1 compression with e-85, also since the same engine running 4 points higher compression and ethanol would make a ton more power you could also shrink the displacement of the engine to further increase MPG and still make the same power as the larger engine running gasoline. It is good to note how chemically ethanol needs less air because chemically it carries some oxygen in its chemical makeup thus requiring less from the air, thats why it runs ideally at a richer ratio and how it can make more power, it is like adding liquid oxygen.

[@cornfedproductions9773]

The Cummins Bilt, ETHOS engine has entered the chat and it’s very angry you did not mention it. Is 40% brake thermal efficiency running on E85 a joke to you? That beats a lot of diesel engines efficiency.

[@danafletcher2341]

This is not new technology or knowledge, it was known long ago. It is suppressed technology. Rear Admiral C.M. Chester wrote Henry Ford a letter on Dec.15, 1916: "...I also pointed out in the article that as governmental laboratories had developed from 40 to 55% efficiency in alcohol engines as against 20% in gasoline machines, the use of alcohol at double the cost of gasoline for power purposes, was cheaper for motor[s] than gasoline in common use today." The Navy was not the only researcher to possess that information: Scientific journals from 1890 - 1920 contain hundreds of references to alcohol fuel at the dawn of the automotive era. Studies of alcohol as an internal combustion engine fuel began in the U.S. with the Edison Electric Testing Laboratory and Columbia University in 1906. Elihu Thomson reported that despite a smaller heat or B.T.U. value, “a gallon of alcohol will develop substantially the same power in an internal combustion engine as a gallon of gasoline. This is owing to the superior efficiency of operation…” The USDA tests in 1906 also demonstrated the efficiency of alcohol in engines and described how gasoline engines could be modified for higher power with pure alcohol fuel or for equivalent fuel consumption, depending on the need. The U.S.Geological Service and the U.S. Navy performed 2000 tests on alcohol and gasoline engines in 1907 - 1908 in Norfolk, Va. and St. Louis, Mo. They found that much higher engine compression ratios could be achieved with alcohol than with gasoline. Almost all manufactures have built efficient ethanol prototype engines save Scania who sells theirs's worldwide now. Here are a few: FROM RICARDO: The new federal CAFE standards are calling for a doubling of fuel mileage performance, which, Vint says, is going to send OEM’s looking for high octane numbers to improve efficiency and ethanol is the best source. Ricardo, an engineering firm with over 100 years in the business of engine design, has developed an extreme boosted direct injection engine (EBDI) to optimize ethanol blends. The 3.2 V6 gasoline engine rivals the power and torque of a much larger GMC Sierra 6.6 diesel, he said, and it delivers 3.5 percent better fuel economy than the diesel. FROM CUMMINS ETHOS ENGINE: According to Cummins, it delivers the power (up to 250 hp) and peak torque (up to 450 lb. ft.) of gasoline and diesel engines nearly twice its displacement... ...Using corn derived E-85, the high thermal efficiency and power-to-weight ratio of this engine results in 50 to 58 percent lower well-to-wheels CO2 emissions compared with the gasoline engine baseline. Using second-generation, lingo-cellulosic derived E-85, the power train’s efficiency features deliver 75 to 80 percent lower well-to-wheels CO2 emissions, depending on the drive cycle. FROM EPA & FORD ON FORD'S ETHANOL OPTIMIZED ECOBOOST SYSTEM: Compared to production gasoline engines: Fuel efficiency is ~15 - 20% improved for various drive cycles. Full load performance is significantly improved, and comparable to production diesel engines. GENERAL MOTORS: ...the Saab 9-5 flex-fuel engine can give improved fuel consumption under mid to high load conditions. Whilst fuel economy over the official EU city and mixed cycles is unlikely to show an improvement, testing indicates that a useful 15 per cent gain can be expected at higher speeds because fuel enrichment for engine cooling is no longer necessary. In its Saab turbo application, the high 104 RON octane rating of E85 fuel, the 85 per cent ethanol/gasoline blend most commonly available at filling stations, also produces a significant 20 per cent increase in maximum engine power, up from 150 to 180 bhp. THE INDY 500: In 2005, the IRL used 100 percent methanol in their tanks. The fuel worked well and was more efficient than straight gasoline, but IRL officials believed there was room for improvement. In 2006, they moved to a 10 percent blend of ethanol and methanol, which was then changed to 100 percent ethanol for the 2007 season... ...The switch to ethanol also allowed the racers to carry less fuel and make fewer pit stops, thereby increasing efficiency even more. "When the cars ran on methanol tanks had to hold 30 gallons to accommodate the fuel requirements of the cars," Vervynckt says. "After getting the engines to perform at their full potential, there was a significant gain in mileage. Indy cars now have 22-gallon tanks. When a driver pulls in to change out his tires, he can fill up. Teams were able to match their tire and fuel stops exactly, instead of stopping for tires only, or fuel only."s FROM THE EPA: An important step toward increasing alcohol fuel demand, then, may lie in providing economical engine technology options that utilize such fuels more efficiently, to compensate for the lower fuel energy density. The FFVs produced today, however, use fairly typical gasoline engines, which, because they must retain dual-fuel capability, are not able to take full advantage of the favorable combustion characteristics of alcohols. Engines optimized for alcohol fuel use, on the other hand, may yield efficiencies that exceed that of state-of-the-art diesel engines-or, about one third higher than that of FFV engines. In earlier engine research at EPA with neat methanol and ethanol [1], for example, over 40% brake thermal efficiency was achieved over a relatively broad range of loads and speeds, with peak levels reaching over 42%. FROM SCANIA: The new bioethanol engine delivers 2,150 Nm, equal to that of its diesel sibling, and the fuel consumption is also on a par with a conventional diesel engine. The foundation was built by Scania’s 13-L inline six engine. It uses compression ignition similar to conventional diesels, which limits the need for hardware modifications. The more significant changes made to the engine are related to the fuel injection system and modified cylinders for increased compression. The same SCR aftertreatment is used that Scania applies in nearly all its Euro 6 engines.

[@cornfedproductions9773]

@@danafletcher2341 That is a good read. Thanks for the info, I’m building a turbo 351W for max mpg in my old bronco so I hope all this turns out like everyone tells me it will.

[@lohrtom]

Here’s an idea: let’s turn a portion of our food supply into fuel!

[@oldblueaccord2629]

hey yeah and then resell it for animal feed! GREAT IDEA.

[@votive7478]

Need an ethanol powered car

[@BlueBillionPoundBottleJobs]

That's just a gasoline car with big injectors, a tune, and a fuel system

[@Suckwhamfarts-bled]

That would smell crazy

[@igrluz]

Welcome to Brazil

[@ETHANX10]

00:02 Ethanol can make more power despite having less energy than gasoline 01:36 Ethanol and gasoline can make very equal power if the thermal efficiencies are the same. 03:21 Ethanol has a high resistance to knock, allowing for higher compression ratios compared to gasoline. 04:51 Direct injection provides a cooling benefit due to the heat of vaporization. 06:30 Ethanol provides a significant cooling advantage 08:04 Ethanol allows for higher compression ratios and more power. 09:42 Ethanol allows for higher compression ratio and increased power 11:17 Ethanol increases power with higher octane and efficiency despite lower energy density. Crafted by Merlin AI.

[@Andersljungberg]

The BMW FI team In the early eighties apparently used toluene and maybe a little Diesel and Diesoline and probably mixed gasoline. This was probably one of the reasons for the many horse powers. toluene gives high octane value also in Mon . E85 doesn't seem as high octane in Mon

[@ericadams920]

The only thing that I question is when you say direct injection has a greater benefit but doesn't indirect actual benefit more due to having more time to cool the air. It's why a carb will make more peak power.

[@mrsmith8436]

So glad you did this video. This is what I have understood about ethanol as a fuel but could not explain to others for decades. The Model A Ford ran on ethanol because it was the original fuel for cars. Alcohol as an engine fuel is actually better overall but only when the engines are designed to take advantage of the properties of ethanol. It’s cleaner and can be more efficient. Regular gasoline can NEVER be cleaner burning than ethanol.

[@karlrovey]

If ethanol is always cleaner, why is E-15 banned for environmental reasons in some places?

[@sking2173]

@@karlrovey - Here’s the answer to your question: “Volatility is the property of a liquid fuel that defines its evaporation characteristics. RVP is an abbreviation for "Reid vapor pressure," a common measure of and generic term for gasoline volatility. EPA regulates the vapor pressure of gasoline sold at retail stations during the summer ozone season (June 1 to September 15) to reduce evaporative emissions from gasoline that contribute to ground-level ozone and diminish the effects of ozone-related health problems.”

[@mrsmith8436]

@@karlrovey- Because our mainstream media are biased and ignorant when they reported on this at the time and our government leaders are ignorant of science. It was banned NOT because it produces more smog but because even though E15 has a vapor pressure that is 1-2 percent lower than today’s regular E10 gasoline, EPA regulations (both prior to 2019, and again after the oil industry won a lawsuit against EPA in 2021) require E15 to meet a vapor pressure limitation that is 10 percent lower than the limit applied to E10 today. This more restrictive standard for E15 is the product of antiquated regulations that predated E15’s introduction by about 25 years. At that time, policymakers and regulators couldn’t fathom that gasoline would ever contain more than 10 percent ethanol. Many studies by multiple universities and others over the years have proven that ethanol blended gas produces less smog producing pollutants vs gasoline. Thats fact.

[@danafletcher2341]

@@karlroveyThere was an obsolete RVP law which E10 was granted a waiver from rather than updating the law for ethanol. Ethanol raises RVP slightly but overall effect is drastically less smog because exhaust is drastically cleaned up despite the slight increase of RVP. Pressurized fuel caps and carbon filters have taken care of RVP problems anyway. E85 never needed a waiver since its RVP is super super low. E15 raises RVP less than E10 and higher blends are lower as well until more ethanol is lower than gasoline. In other words E15 produces less smog or RVP emissions than E10, yet E10 is legal in summertime and E15 is illegal. Go figure. RVP is only measured at 100 degree F. Ethanol has no VP (vapor pressure) below 70 degrees and the vapor pressure of VOCs it does have are less ozone making than petroleum's toxic VOCs. Gasoline has vapor pressure down to -45 degrees.

[@vxsr33]

E85 is amazing for performance especially on turbocharged cars however flex fuel capability is a MUST. Having to run only on E85 sucks, especially when you want to take long trips.

[@Bournefort]

The entire video, I was wondering about pump gas efficiency and why pump gas with ethanol always hurts my fuel economy. Your explanation at 11:55 answered my question. Amazing video as always Jason!

[@guysteel]

the 91 I buy is R+M/2 not just R. I have a supercharger and using E reduces the compression heating in my engine.

[@GtCobra12]

As an engineering student, i feel proud having the oppurtunity to actually watch a worthy related youtube channel. It should be shown to engineering student's in my personal opinion, especially if we are talking about automotive ones'.

[@bushmaster1740]

It's nice to watch a channel who knows what they are talking about. E also cleans an old engine fuel system and valves. Highly recommend a gallon or two in a tank. E itself burns perfectly clean, without toxic detergents and octane boosters. lol if you think gasoline from crude oil burns cleaner than alcohol.

[@teragonify]

It's astounding how much better a DI engine can run on E85. I run my GT86 on the stuff with an appropriate tune and minimal intake and exhaust mods and manage to squeeze an extra 50~ish Hp just due to the ability to run more aggressive cam and ignition timing. I burn more than i do on 98 RON, but when i drop back to a 50-50 mix (about E40) im still getting 40ish HP and burn less. Its just a shame that E85 costs a bomb in this country...

[@1983dmd]

THIS is the best explanation I have ever seen regarding ethanol effect ! Wow!!

[@23billd]

An easy way to understand why ethanol reduces mileage is that due to its C-OH bond in lieu of a C-C bond, it is already partially oxidized.