Does a "Historical Buddha" Matter?

[@yongjiean9980]

The Buddha was a real and enlightened teacher the greatest religious teacher to have appeared in this world

[@tunaung8639]

In my childhood, my parents let me read a thick book of Buddha’s biography, a mixture of facts and myths. After having chances of studying Dhamma, I found out that Buddha himself mentioned only few events about his life in it and his bios were created in later eras with legendary fillings by masters from different schools causing some discrepancies.

[@DougsDharma]

That’s right Tun Aung, there is a lot of later information included in standard biographies of the Buddha’s life. I have a course over at the Online Dharma Institute where I get into some of that. 🙂

[@sharavanakumar3554]

It would be helpful if you could name the book for the seekers thanks

[@somthawinboonyasupha5661]

May I pay high respect to you,Dr.Doug Smith,I Am your Thai Buddhist student who try to practice listening English Dhamma talks from your channel in early morning.i appreciate your kindness wisdom so much but my English is very weak 😢 However,I keep on trying.Many thousand Thanks ❤️ for your great compassion ❣️🙏🙏🙏

[@DougsDharma]

Wonderful to hear! Best to you on learning English which must be very hard work! 🙏🙏🙂

[@masawemccord-franco1367]

I'm new to Buddhist practice and belief. It has taken from a very dark place, and set me on a new path. I will be forever grateful to you Doug Smith for being one of the people who has really helped me understand the Dharma and continue on my new path. Thank you, peace and joy.🙏

[@DougsDharma]

I’m very happy for you! 🙏😊

[@masawemccord-franco1367]

@@DougsDharma 🙏

[@mikecody1697]

Thanks for making these videos, they make understanding Buddhism much easier. My interest is from a practical view. I found Buddhist concepts very useful in trying to understand life experiences, particularly when it comes to stress, thought and emotional control, and the nature of awareness. One of the most delightful things I have discovered is that the practice of things like meditation result in very real results, while also being very simple and natural. Many of the most useful discoveries are things that are so subtle that they are difficult to explain to others in words. Buddhism seems to have the best grasp I have found on these concepts. I want to learn more about insight that can be gained from meditation through Buddhist thought and teaching and am finding your videos very helpful in sorting my way through this vast and complicated body of knowledge.

[@DougsDharma]

Glad to hear! 🙏😊

[@mael-strom9662]

Quirky thing happened on researching the profound teachings of Zen master Bodhidharma ...I rediscovered the profound teachings of the historical Buddha. ^^

[@DougsDharma]

Funny how that happens Mael-Strom! 😄

[@Nattleby]

Interesting video…. I read a book long ago called “Buddha’s Explanation of the Universe” which was a simplified version of the Abhidharma. The scientific acumen of ancient Buddhists was astounding, and many ideas in the abhidharma parallels modern discoveries like atoms being made up of different elemental particles, and the frequency and vibration of what we call “reality”.

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks Nattleby, I don't know that book.

[@udayangadananjaya7914]

@@DougsDharma true

[@Cheese-0x]

I find it very inspiring to believe there was an actual person who had deep insight into the nature of suffering and was able to teach a path towards the cessation of suffering. To me it is again inspiring to think that this person taught for many decades and that he helped many to achieve that path. This makes it realistic, this makes it achievable, it inspires hope and faith. It also means we should take the teaching seriously if we can believe this bit. What it also means is that we can be critical, because we can assume that this historical figure was shaped and conditioned by the time and place of his live. Here we can start to be critical of teachings, come to our own conclusions, but only after careful investigation and good faith. We need to do it in any case, apply that same skepticism that even the people in the suttas showed, because we can't verify the truth of the teaching otherwise. Not putting the early teachings on the pedestal of absolute truth is also quite freeing, it allows for other teachings, other paths and variations of the path to co-exist in harmony. It also allows for an integration of modern knowledge with these teachings. That said, my personal belief is that the teachings in the Pali Canon provide the most direct knowledge and can give very achievable results.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes, thanks for your input Cheese!

[@ConexionHumanaOficial]

Thanks a lot. For sure I'll study this lesson several times more in order to understand step by step. Lots of hugs. Evangelina Cortes.

[@DougsDharma]

You're very welcome Evangelina!

[@marco7402]

Thank you so much for your videos! My favorite book on the Buddha is “The Life of the Buddha: According to the Pali Canon” by Bhikkhu Ñanamoli.

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks Marco!

[@yongjiean9980]

It is my bible

[@David-gv4fw]

Another well done video Doug. Thanks for introducing me to the view of secular Buddhism. I come from a very nonsecular view of Buddhism and it is very refreshing and grounding to think of the Buddha as a man, who lived a life every bit as human as everyone else's. Even after his enlightenment. He was such an exceptional individual, it's easy to understand the extent to which he has been mythologized. I do have a question, considering that he was very intellectual & lucid, did he really live most of his spiritual life in homelessness? It almost doesn't compute considering no other intellectual or philosopher has set that precedence. I know he did set up the Sangha, & he did occasionally stay where he was invited. But he certainly would've been in a position to set himself up to live in a permanent residence. He would have benefited from having people to attend to his needs especially in his old age. But I keep hearing that he was wandering around until he passed away. I am saving up to get your online course on the Buddha's Life, it sounds really exciting and I am looking forward to seeing the result of your work. I'm sure as tedious as the research must have been, it must have been a real joy to know him as the man underneath the legend for which he is known. Thanks again for the cool video!

[@DougsDharma]

You're very welcome David, thanks for the comment! Yes, from all we know he lived his spiritual life in homelessness. That isn't to say he never stayed inside, houses were built for the sangha and so he would pass some time in various built structures. But he was always wandering around, and would go for alms round daily in order to feed himself, along with his monastics. This kind of life isn't unheard of though, it was standard practice in India back in the day for holy people. And in the West we have the precedent of philosophers like Diogenes, who lived a life of homeless poverty.

[@gmeister3022]

I think that enlightened beings do cease their own suffering. You mentioned that the Buddha was cranky or downright angry sometimes with his monks, but so it seems in the Suttas that he was never angry, only stern in order to shock them with serious teachings. And of course, there are many suttas in which the Buddha explained for instance how to restrain and eliminate anger and suffering, such as one sutta in which he suggests 5 tactics. Naturally, the most important suttas that are mostly devoid of any supernormal features touch upon why it is worthy to practice the dhamma. He talks of the 4 sublimes, for instance. He talks of the disappearance of lust, anger and arrogance from a certain level of awakening.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes, that is definitely one way to look at it, and follows the early teachings.

[@udayangadananjaya7914]

True. Buddha never got angry instead he get angry he was behave as rejecting and being alone and making bhrahma dandana ( this means no one talking with that person and simply making them like invisible until they understand their faults and they change their behaviors)

[@nigelsheppard625]

In the Suttas the Buddha refers to his father working in fields, so not a King then. He also mentions that when he left home be become a mendicant, his mother cried and his father was angry, which doesn't agree with the mythology of him stealing away in the night with his charioteer.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes, exactly so.

[@nancypoopongpaibul5642]

Doug, you can find how the Buddha life started from point one to the end from the Pâli Canon. Pay attention to his teachings and practices rather than finding is he real, how did he live in definitely details, it will be based on hearsay. The Buddha outlined his teachings into three baskets or parts, His personal life, His teaching, and Abhidamma. But of course to practice Buddhism, people or practitioners should have a goal, what they really want in life. The Buddha taught life is suffering and try to end the sufferings by way of nipanna (no rebirth). The Buddha also suggested the ways how to get there. Your discussions here are also very interesting and need to discuss in depth further to get a better understanding of the Buddha ‘s taught. Thank you for sharing.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes thanks Nancy! 🙂

[@lartorgames]

For some people you must now even if you early Buddhist teaching is that Buddha did actually not eat or drink for some time to try and reach enlightenment under the Bodi tree!The Tibetan as believed still has the way of practicing, you can find this in discovery channel once they went to Nepal for the small child who was able to practice without eating or drinking.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes the Buddha is said to have tried extreme austerities before attaining enlightenment, and finding that they were a wrong path that did not help.

[@westsidesmitty1]

Seeing this video again in no way reduced the returns on my enjoyment!. I hope you will forgive this + ''out of left field'' question, , but I've been waiting for an occasion to inquire (and at least you did mention your courses in this installment!) There didn't seem to be a way to ask on your web page. You once made a tantalizing aside to the effect that you were considering conducting a course on the abidharma. With the pandemic and people scrambling to adjust, I can surely understand a change in plans or just shelving a great idea for the time being. But I was wondering if there had been any developments?

[@DougsDharma]

Yes it's been in the back of my mind Smitty. I'm not sure that I would have enough good material to do a course with, though I may eventually get round to doing a video or two on it. The main problem with much of the abhidhamma is that it's intensely dry. So either you go with that and risk boring everyone to tears, or you look at the interesting aspects of it which are relatively limited in scope. (Or at least that's how it seems to me now ...) 😄

[@venrakkhita]

Hi Doug. About the Buddha’s life, what about the Buddha Vamsa, the Chronicles of the Buddhas? I read through them and found that quite good. The reason for the writing of that work was that the Burmese premiere Ne Win found the same problem, so he asked Sayadaws with vast memorization of suttas to write a chronology of the Buddhas life/lives. A seperate point about historicity is the documentary Buddha’s Bones, about verifying a pot containing bones, with Brahmani script. Wish you well. Great work.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes the Buddhavaṃsa is a late canonical work from a more hagiographic period. That is, it is of deep spiritual and religious significance particularly in the Theravāda tradition, however it isn't of the same historical significance. I haven't seen the Buddha's Bones documentary, I know there are some relics from around the time of the Buddha though how authentic they really are would be very difficult or impossible to know for sure. I think however it does indicate at least that people at the time considered him a real person.

[@venrakkhita]

@@DougsDharma thanks. on another note. i was listening to your account of Bodhisattva birth... how human was he when young etc pre-Buddhahood. It did occur to me that the description you gave could have fitted an anagami on his last birth.. who learned Dhamma a very long time ago. People can have learned Dhamma in previous lives... then he memory is faint but the nibbanic effects remain on the stream of consciousness. Kind of Burmese logic. I heard it in reference to Mingun Sayadaw... the memorizer of Tipitika... that he suspended in a plane until time to birth ready for the Fifth Council. Appreciate your perspectives, doing good job.

[@EvenStarMN]

Thank you. Very interesting.

[@DougsDharma]

You're very welcome!🙏

[@gabrielchan4359]

excellent info

[@DougsDharma]

🙏😊

[@traybae2_]

I would have preferred to hear more about the history of The Buddha and his real life

[@DougsDharma]

You may want to check out this video then: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aaq4ZHZjl5ubf6s

[@xiaomaozen]

The book by Schumann is great. I've also read Stephen Batchelor's approach in "After Buddhism", but I don't know what to make of it. On the one hand it is very attractive and interesting, but on the other hand it seems kind of contrived. He wants to paint a secular Gotama, not a historically correct one. I'm gonna try the books you recommend here. Maybe even your course. 230$ is a lot of money for me, but we'll see... Thanks for the video and the info box! 🙏🏻

[@DougsDharma]

Sure no worries! I do occasional sales on the courses so you can also keep an eye out for that. As for "After Buddhism", I did a review of that awhile back at the SBA, you can read it here: secularbuddhism.org/batchelors-after-buddhism-a-review/ (For some reason my name isn't showing up as the author; there have been some SNAFU's over the years there, I'll try to see if I can get it straightened out ...)

[@xiaomaozen]

@@DougsDharma Cool, thank you! 😊

[@georgecolombo]

Per one of your earlier videos, I am in the middle of reading The Buddha & His Dhamma by B. N. Ambedkar and am fascinated by his alternative “origin story” for the Buddha. Would love to get your comments on that sometime, comparing and contrasting it with the more widely told version.

[@DougsDharma]

I'm assuming you saw my earlier video on Dr. Ambedkar? His story of the Buddha's life is fun but not historical, it is largely not derived from early material.

[@Kasparovvvvv]

Love your channel. Binging your videos. If you can help I'm looking for a simple book to read, that is mostly on the historic side rather than the philosophy? thank you.

[@DougsDharma]

That's hard, since books that talk about the history often do so by discussing philosophy. That said, Rupert Gethin's Foundations of Buddhism is excellent and IIRC discusses both.

[@DougsDharma]

Oh and thanks for the comment! 😀

[@Kasparovvvvv]

@@DougsDharma That is great and I just found a lecture of him talking in my university in Israel. Thank You 🙏

[@ricardofranciszayas]

Hello Doug, Have you read “After Buddhism- Rethinking the Dharma for a Secular Age” by Stephen Batchelor? I have it on Audiobook and have listened to it twice. Very impressive work.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes, I actually wrote a review of it awhile back over at the SBA. You can find it here: secularbuddhism.org/batchelors-after-buddhism-a-review/ . The upshot is that while it is an interesting work, it's not really a work of early Buddhist history so much as an attempt to reinterpret early Buddhism as secular.

[@250f5.6]

Those birds sound like a quarrelling subconscious!

[@DougsDharma]

😄😄

[@handynas6529]

Karen Armstrong - The Buddha. This is an easy read.

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks handy, it's not a book I've read. Armstrong is a generalist and not an expert on early Buddhism but she is a good and clear writer.

[@toddviv]

@@DougsDharma hi, may i ask could you recommend to me a good book on the topic?

[@DougsDharma]

@@toddviv I have a playlist with lots of recommendations. See it here: kzbin.info/aero/PL0akoU_OszRjBKHxKj98qtSmcLpBmDWkL

[@drd5540]

If the road is correct What does it matter where it started? If the Way is true What does it matter what it is called? What matters is no one can find it Who does not seek it. No one can know the Way Who does not follow it.

[@DougsDharma]

That’s right Dr D, it doesn’t really matter so long as the path is right for us.

[@drd5540]

@@DougsDharma The Way is the teacher. Even Gautama did not sit under the Bodhi tree forever, he went forth.

[@udayangadananjaya7914]

There are so many relics of lord buddha in south asia.specially in sri lanka (tooth relic) and so many bone relics.

[@DougsDharma]

Well yes, though the question is whether they are authentic. It's said there are enough "relics of the true cross" to make a boat.

[@jo88hn88]

Thanks for your video Doug. I would encourage everyone to watch ‘Dominion 2018’ on KZbin for a good idea of how the vast majority of meat is actually produced. See if this aligns your personal values if you consider yourself to be a kind person. More knowledge is never a bad thing. I agree that the times in which the Buddha lived were very different to today

[@DougsDharma]

Yes, thanks Pieguy!

[@mahaaryaman7088]

If I may ask what religion (s) did his family practice prior to buddhism?

[@DougsDharma]

Impossible to know for sure.

[@mahaaryaman7088]

@@DougsDharma thank you

[@chadkline4268]

So, what does the history say? 🤔🙄🙂

[@Jaggosaddo]

Keep up the videos :)

[@DougsDharma]

I'll do my best Jago & Film! Thanks.

[@Jaggosaddo]

Doug's Secular Dharma seriously, thanks for replying. You don’t know how much your videos help me. I can describe it. Just thank you and. No matter if you upload once a year, I’m still happy for that one video. May you and your family be blessed :)

[@DougsDharma]

That's very kind of you to say Jago & Film. Be well! 🙏

[@sayalishahare9388]

Sir... Do you know who is great emperor samrat ashoka is????

[@DougsDharma]

If you mean Asoka the Great, I did a video on him! 🙂 You can see it here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jGWbameLnJ2MacU

[@roshaniaf4212]

In meditation of Budh . you go inside you with your brith.

[@udayangadananjaya7914]

Mara was not a demon. He was the king of highest heven in buddhism called wasawarthi heven. Thats why he named as wasawarthi mara . In some sutras he was described as a god who invade other hevens and trying to rule them and he also support to binding humens for disires and things. And some scholars interpreted mara as a mental condition of buddha while he was about to enlightened. But in buddhism he also mentioned as a physical figure. And according to thripitaka (pali cannon) his hevens 1 day is similar 2000000 earth years ( if imnot wrong. I cn not remember acurate number. But its similar to this.)

[@giuseppepatane6601]

I really like your videos but please try to be more concise. Sometimes I feel like you spend a lot of time in preambles and examples that divert the attention from the main point and make it harder to follow.

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks Giuseppe, I'll keep that in mind.

[@TruLight-Sujato-Damita]

It seems you may not believe in “magic” or mystic stuff. From my life and meditation I find it very real. It just comes from achieving a high vibration. Or evil rituals

[@wendyshoo3476]

Who is he, a Buddha???? The answer is, he is a Buddha. If one understand what tle entire context of a Buddha.

[@นางพิมพ์เติมสมบัติบวร]

meditation

[@DougsDharma]

🙏

[@roshaniaf4212]

Budh is a founder of meditation.if go inside you, you will recognise himself.

[@DougsDharma]

Maybe so, he comes through in our practice.

[@fairytalejediftj7041]

On a historicity scale of 1-10, I'd say Buddha 8, Achilles 7, Jesus 1. That's for some non-supernatural person whose life was later embellished. Chances for the supernatural versions of each are zero.

[@DougsDharma]

Well there is actually quite a lot of historicity in Jesus's life, but one does have to look past the miracles. If you're interested, Prof. Bart Ehrman has a great book out on that topic. That said, it doesn't really matter for our practice.

[@fairytalejediftj7041]

@@DougsDharma I would enjoy being Prof Ehrman's student. His presentations that I've seen on youtube are very entertaining. 😊

[@DougsDharma]

Yes he is a wonderful teacher!

[@RLekhy]

Great video but please be historical too, not philosophical when you talk about the Historicity of Buddha. How do we know Thales or Pythagoras or Socrate or Plato and many other Greek philosophers were historical? In fact, we don't have concrete evidence to prove their historicity. By the way, this question of historicity of Buddha is not new. Indo-Graeco King Menander in the Second Century BCE questioned same question to Buddhist Monk Nagsena; and he was convinced and not just adopted but became the Patronage of Buddhism. Where Indian scholars place Buddha before 1600 BCE , in contrast, the most of the Western scholars place the Birth of Buddha after the 5th century BCE. I think both are not correct dates. Being a student of Anthropology, I do believe in archaeology and the recent excavation at Lumbini indicates that Buddha might have born between 8th and 6th century BCE. Sri Lankan Chronologies are not reliable.

[@santelang]

Buddha is a natural state of man. Not an actual person. It's unattached awareness, when one throws off the individuality, woven by mind as 'me and mine.' It's a liberated mind, a goal of every human being to achieve. No supernatural adherence to it, no superman, yet different from those who are not detached! It's only known to eyes of wisdom. But that pure awareness, have one rebel, mara. What jesus called, 'The world of God Vs Satan'! Many sages fell for that. Mara deludes who got near the Detached awareness to assume vision to their respective gods. They see they attained what they belive and forget the word of God! That's why Muhammad says, Allah is not human, not image, no name, not whatever you see. He condemn every idols!

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks for your comment sandeep.

[@freyesha4110]

You are disrespecting a religion right now!!!!!!!!! Is this what Allah taught you???

[@Magnulus76]

"If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him" - Linji Yixuan It's fairly clear from what little I have read, that the Tripitaka, the Agamas, and particularly the Mahayana Sutras have the same sorts of historical criticism leveled at them, as what one will find leveled against Abrahamic religious texts. And there's a similar liberal-conservative dynamic as in those religions in terms of how to interpret them. However, very few historians doubt the Buddha actually existed.

[@DougsDharma]

Sure Magnulus. All ancient texts are questionable to some degree. Indeed, all texts are questionable to some degree. The job of the careful historian though should be at least partly to winnow the wheat from chaff and construct a plausible recounting of what ancient history was actually like. In that case, certain texts (and other historical material) will prove more worthwhile than others.

[@fredericksaturnine4167]

Wow why would you demean the entire first half of the bible and call it unreasonable? That seems judgmental. Btw socrates was a fool and a curse on plato while I'm at it. Diogenes was the only true ancient white philosopher.

[@DougsDharma]

I don’t think I ever said any such thing Derick but thanks for your thoughts!

[@fredericksaturnine4167]

@@DougsDharma youre welcome, always a pleasure

[@jamalicon1]

Buddha was actually born in Pakistan, not Nepal.

[@HM_12348]

Nope, Archaeologically and historically born in Nepal

[@stefanzielinski3582]

To be honest, I have probably never seen a waffler bigger than you. So much talking, and almost nothing on the subject matter. I've come here to see whether we in fact know somethin about the historical Buddha and if we do, what would that be. Zero info, even though the title promises at least some sort of introduction to the topic. You didn't even bother to give the title of a book you mentioned near the end of your talk

[@DougsDharma]

The book I mentioned is listed in the show notes. If you want to know about the historical Buddha, I have other videos on that topic, such as: Did the Buddha Exist? kzbin.info/www/bejne/nHynqnapr6tqsKcsi=NkJwrTU1piIZPAUD and: Who Was the Buddha? kzbin.info/www/bejne/aaq4ZHZjl5ubf6s . I have changed the title of this video slightly to better reflect its contents.

[@HM_12348]

First , thank you very much for the wonderful videos and the beautiful presentation. Your channel is very beautiful. 🤍🙏🏻 I encountered someone who made this claim, stating that Buddha is just a myth. We engaged in a discussion, but throughout the debate, he resorted to logical fallacies. I countered each of his claims with very precise archaeological and textual evidence With links, references and sources . However, realizing he was losing the discussion, he evaded me and eventually blocked me. People like them amuse me 😹😹

[@DougsDharma]

🙏