Buddhism and Icons: Prohibition to "Idolatry"

[@DougsDharma]

✅ Check out this video next on whether the Buddha was bald: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hGrPpXdurL6EebM 🧡 Consider joining us on Patreon if you find benefit in these videos, and get fun extras like exclusive behind-the-scenes videos, audio-only versions, and extensive show notes: www.patreon.com/dougsseculardharma 🙂

[@theylhompst]

Y'know, I actually believe for once the man on screen has read all those books in the background.

[@DougsDharma]

😄 I can't claim to have read them all from cover to cover, but thanks Duke!

[@Iknowonlywhatimtaught]

I believe he could have, maybe not all.

[@emptyemptiness8372]

I live in Thailand and can appreciate the beautiful statues in the wats as representations of the perfection of the practice, the teaching and the teacher so i can find inspiration in them however many believe these statues are full of "buddha magic", supernatural and prey to them as gods expecting or hoping for a boon. This to me is idolatry, and is detrimental to Buddhism in that people are looking towards statues for salvation instead of looking inwards and practicing to acheive liberation from suffering.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes I don't think it is particularly good practice to assume that the image is what is most important.

[@sachinjain377]

Give me one reason why you consider idolatry as detrimental ? And what exactly you understand by Idolatry?

[@yehetgalaxy1441]

We pray to his statue out of respect and thankfulness for his teachings. It’s not out of idolatry as many in the west would have viewed it. We don’t rely on the Buddha for salvation because we know his teachings of karma- that we are responsible for our own actions. Therefore, the concept of salvation doesn’t apply to us. We simply pray to him and all the other gods and deities to guide us to a better path in life.

[@emptyemptiness8372]

@@yehetgalaxy1441 I understand why it is done because I have lived most of my life here in Thailand however this practice of praying to god's,rubbing powder on old logs for lottery numbers and offering clothes and toys to ghosts is not part of the authentic teaching and practice of the historical buddha. Also the worship of bhramanical god's is not consistent with the Buddhist practice. Bhrama thinks he is eternal,created everything and is everlasting this makes him a deluded god. Even the Buddha says they can do nothing for you so what is there to pay respect to? Better to bow down to a homeless beggar,at least they exist in this realm and can possibly have some sort of impact on your path.

[@emptyemptiness8372]

Also the Buddha did not want a statue of him so early practitioners used a rock,a footprint or a wheel to represent the teaching and teacher. Buddha rooplors appeared centuries later when the focus became more religious than the practice.

[@stealthworx4371]

I grew up in Sri Lanka (one of the two hearts of Buddhism especially Theravada) and from since the time I was a child I had this burning question. Why do we buddhists idol worship when Buddha explicitly asks us NOT to in the 5 nikayas??. Since the 5 nikayas are closest to the teachings of Buddha (ahsokas edicts have these so we have solid proof the 5 nikayas out date the first Buddhist congregation which took place in Sri Lanka by nearly 300 years). This really has been a major point of contention in my head for 15 years 🤣

Yep same here I always wondered about this too.

[@DougsDharma]

I don't know that the Buddha ever really discusses worshipping idols, though he clearly doesn't think much of prayer. A Buddha image can be simply a skillful means of recalling the Buddha or his teachings. In that case I don't think he would necessarily have seen anything wrong in them.

[@johnryan2193]

Seeing wrong and right are a good subject for meditation.

[@jaibhimjaibharatjaisamvidh4739]

There is a saying that Buddhists are not idol worshipers, but IDEAL worshipers. We don't consider the Buddha to be a "god" that we worship him, we consider him to be our teacher in which we follow his lifestyles and teachings.

[@DougsDharma]

Ha! That's good. Yes there are lots of ways that Buddhists around the world interact with Buddha images.

[@user-Void-Star]

Lifestyle!? Lol 🤣

[@noahdanielg]

One of your best videos in a while Doug! Maybe you'd like to know we are in our Religious Studies diving deeper particularly into Mindfulness and Vipassanā - mainly focussing on Satipaṭṭhāna - and Theravāda in relation to contemporary mindfulness movement. Early Buddhism comes up a lot, and I have recommended your videos again as an aid to fellow students!

[@DougsDharma]

Hey great to hear Noah! I hope your classmates find something useful in the videos. Mindfulness and Vipassanā are very interesting things to look at, I've done several past videos on those topics! 🙂

[@evaanr1971]

Seems to me like people are commenting on two different topics here. 1. Idol worship and 2. Iconography/symbology. As far as I know the Buddha was said to have veered away from the idea of people creating idols of him. The Buddha was said to have wanted the Bo Tree to be a symbol. The root of Buddhism is to use the Dhamma as a guide to be your own refuge. Therefore there is no validity in idol worship in Theravada. Any “worshipping” of idols should be done in remembrance, appreciation and respect similar to culturally “worshipping” one’s parents. This is different to worshipping and asking for wishes to be granted like in other religions. So yes, Doug is spot on regarding the lack idolatry in early Buddhism.

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks for your input Evaan. These topics are quite subtle!

[@amarok5048]

I have been practicing Samatha Theravada Buddhism since last year. I find your videos very helpful and concordant with my practice. I like the fact that your videos are just the right length and to the point, clarifying many aspects in a nutshell. Concise and without digression and delightful. I continue to watch them regularly. Thank you very very much

[@DougsDharma]

You're very welcome Schmutzgreifer! Glad to be of help.

[@jackpayne4658]

Zen seems to have squared this particular circle: prostrate before the Buddha image, but if you get too cold - burn it! My own suspicion is that Buddha images arrived in the Greco - Indian kingdoms of Gandhara. Some of the earliest Buddha images bear a remarkable resemblance to Apollo.

[@DougsDharma]

It's possible that the tradition arrived that way, though it remains an object of some scholarly controversy. There were other image traditions around at early dates as well, apparently.

[@tylerfanell8212]

Doug's Dharma Do Buddhists consider the Buddha a guru and what do Buddhists think about gurus

[@sexydirrtymoney]

@@DougsDharma Oh wow...didn't know about this. Based on my readings (so far), the Gandharan period has always been credited as the beginning of the buddha being represented in human form in art. I need to look more into this....is there any specific pointers that you can give?

[@DougsDharma]

@@sexydirrtymoney I'd highly recommend Robert DeCaroli's book Image Problems (I think it's linked in the description). He discusses the scholarship and controversies over "who was first" and doesn't come to a firm conclusion.

[@sexydirrtymoney]

@@DougsDharma Thanks for the info! I managed to find a video of Robert DeCaroli giving a short presentation prior to publishing his book "Image Problems" for anyone who is interested kzbin.info/www/bejne/aIS5k32joZWthcU

[@Conscious_Science_podcast]

Such great summaries of information from a totally unbiased perspective. Much appreciations 🙏

[@DougsDharma]

My pleasure!

[@rickschrager]

I suspect that if the Buddha were to visit many of the temples today he would be more than a little displeased with the glitz and glimmer on display. One of the temples I attend has more gold leaf than Fort Knox.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes this seems something that happens with large, powerful, influential movements: they gain wealth and display it as proof of that power and influence. We see the same thing in other world religions for example.

[@Master_Blackthorne]

Yes, this is what ignorant people say about fake gold. They completely miss the point. The gold represents the pureness of the Dharma.

[@debaratibanerjee8138]

With this post, you have answered the question I have been carrying in mind for past 8 years or so. Thanks a ton for making the concepts so easily ‘digestible’, with every video you create 👌

[@DougsDharma]

Glad it was helpful Debarati! 🙏

[@anandnainar3590]

Seriously, thank you again and again. Now it is possible to explain to my Christian friends without having them immediately being defensive towards Buddhism. Thank you for bringing back the core of traditional secular Buddhism.

[@DougsDharma]

You're very welcome Anand, that's my hope! 🙂

[@tormunnvii3317]

Excellent video, very interesting Doug.

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks Tormunn!

[@contemplativepursuits]

You explained it all in a profound scholarly and academic manner. Thanks for this valuable information.

[@DougsDharma]

My pleasure Abid! 🙏

[@pierrolosapio1042]

A lot of comments, which seem to be against praying in Front of statures, apparently do not understand that in the Mahayana or Tibetan Tradition you're not praying to some outer force, but rather use the image of the buddha in a practice called 'Guru Yoga' to awakening the Buddha in one self. In Zen there is a proverb: "If you see the Buddha - Kill him." Meaning if you indentify something outside of your self as the buddha and not as a inherent part of you - Kill that thought or Image, because it's a delusion. Thank you for sharing Doug! Namo Amitabha Buddha 🤲🏽

[@DougsDharma]

Right, the use of statues in Buddhism isn't necessarily "idolatry" in the sense of thinking that the statue is what's important. Nevertheless that seems to be how many outsiders took it, which I guess is understandable.

[@Chase_Istre]

I have a question since you also mentioned amitabha at the end. Is amitabha buddha idolatry then? If I’m not mistaken which I might be, In the pure land you will worship amitabha for his works, is thus idolatry or idol worship? Or did I get something wrong along those lines?

[@SrValeriolete]

There's a bit more complex than that. In mahayana the existence of "external beings" and of the Buddahs hability to act on the world (limited by our karma) is recognized. In an ultimate understanding there's no external or internal, because we are all interdependent, but in a relative sense there are more advanced beings that have developed the wisdom that see our interdepence more deeply. So, when in mahayana you pray for a Buddah you are creating a link between yourself and the Buddah, that link is only possible because you already have those latent qualities withing you, but that doesn't mean there aren't "external" beings who can help you cultivate those qualities. Pure Lands are not that hard to understand, if you look at karma and rebirth you can see that the worlds beings are born into are at least in part a reflection of the quality of their minds, a Pure Land is the sphere of influence of a Buddah that constructs a way for the enlightenement of other beings, wherever people have those qualities of an enlightened mind, that place will appear to him as a Pure Land, but that doesn't mean there are not specific realms of training in the cosmos, they are born of the dedicated merit and the qualities of mind of a Buddah, so if you stablish a karmic relationship with that Buddah you can enter that place and attain buddahood faster if you're able to have faith in it. Those are pretty ancient concepts, they come at least from Nagarjuna, you don't have them in Theravada, but in Theravada the goal of a lot of practioners is to enter Tushita heaven were you can train with Maitreya untill he comes to earth as a Buddah and you can come toghether, I think those are somewhat similar concepts.

[@SrValeriolete]

Zen puts a much greater focus on the inner path, and in the emptness of symbols, but that's a Zen thing. Pure Land traditions focus on an external path of devotion, but both paths were once a single path at the beggining of mahayana, never got divorced in Tibet and got reintegrated toghether in China as Chan. It is in Japan that we see this great divide between Zen and Pure Land. But I think that will change. Devotion to the Buddah or symbols of the Buddah, as statues and so on are generally seing as positive for the lay comunity because it strenghen their conection to the teachings even if they're not yet able to understand it, that goes even for Theravada. The idea seems to be that they will have a higher chance of meeting the Dharma in another life, even if their devotion isn't acompanied by great understanding. After the Buddah died people make relics out of his boddy parts and created stupas, so some form of devotion was there since the beggining. The reason for the exibition of those body parts seems to be for people to stablish a conection with them aswell.

[@SrValeriolete]

@@Chase_Istre see if my comments help. There are a lot of Pure Land traditions and practices. So it's hard to generalize. But in the end the statue is a symbol of Amida Buddah. Amida Buddah represents the awaken mind, and in a sense, can be seen as beyond time and space, as the unconditional. But it also represents how that wisdom can get corporified and personified as it has been in the line of transmition of the Buddahs. Amida was the first to achieve enlightenement and passed that flame out to other Buddahs and boddhsatvas through the cosmos, including Siddharta Gautama. I'm not sure what is meant by idol worshiper, I don't think they worship an statue as having power or being the Buddah Amida, but they do believe in an (relativily) external being that teaches us and leads us to the Pure Land to become Buddhas like him.

[@lelandstronks319]

I never thought of portraits like that before. Interesting talk .keep up the good work Doug.

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks Leland, I'll do my best! 🙂

[@cwilkinsonwck]

Your channel us pretty great. Loved the informations in this video

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks so much! 🙏

[@muzza49]

Thanks for sharing interesting knowledge! :)

[@DougsDharma]

My pleasure Musa!

[@monikaolausson4158]

Thank you Doug for another very interesting video.

[@DougsDharma]

You're very welcome Monika!

[@middlewayers]

I think one of the reasons for not depicting was because He was Hidden or undiscoverable.. It is mentioned at few places about"Undiscoverable"

[@DougsDharma]

Yes, that's right. I believe I mentioned something along those lines in the video as well.

[@middlewayers]

@@DougsDharma there is a deity in Egyptian mythology who was hidden or undiscoverable. Also in the Caananite gods there was..

Since we have the right brain and the left brain specialisations, denying imagery is depriving ourselves of the intuitive and creative complementary aspects of our existence that enhances the knowlegde gained via logical thinking. Arts and Music are part and parcel of our human evolution for expressing our experiences in the world. When asked about the existence of God, the Buddha held up a flower. Words alone can not capture the joyful aspects of life.

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks Harbajan, indeed I think images can play a powerful role in our practice if we find that useful.

[@DailyWisdom999]

Doug: Your scholarly understanding is quite vast.

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks DW, but really my knowledge is just as a beginner. This is a huge topic.

[@DailyWisdom999]

@@DougsDharma Yes, scholarly knowledge can be moved into wisdom as a "practitioner" through practicing the teachings, if one chooses. Through practice of the teachings with guidance from a Teacher is where one will truly start independently verifying "the truth" to acquire wisdom.....which leads to liberation of the mind....to Enlightenment. :)

[@michelledunford7718]

Thank you as always for such a great explanation. Now over to watch the other videos (art and bald) as I do want to see how the pictures have changed over the years. :) ... Weird note, I have been watching a lot of your channel and "Adyashanti" and I notice that Adyashanti does not have any ads. I am not sure since you are discussing religion if you can apply for a different type of benefit package from KZbin (like in Canada religious institutes don't have to pay as many taxes) and maybe KZbin has a similar policy (?)

[@DougsDharma]

My pleasure! I don’t think KZbin has any such policies or packages, unfortunately. 🙏

[@aidanharrison3888]

As an old man I dont do emojies , i dont know what they mean . However I do understand why one would use symbols rather than words . When I look at my Chenrezig thanka it is the concentrated essence of so many teachings I ve had . Pre literate peoples used signs and symbols . Good way of communicate , to share a whole bundle of concepts all in one go .

[@DougsDharma]

Yes, as they say a picture is worth a thousand words. 🙏

[@NicNico]

Thanks again for a wonderful presentation, Doug. ~ I'm surprised the stupa (or thūpa in Pali) didn't come up. Of course I know they aren't exactly depictions of the Buddha, but King Ashoka specifically spread (allegedly) 84,000 stupas around India as tumuli to house the remains of the Buddha. From my understanding, such locations functioned for rites and presumably the same function as a Buddha statue. Nepali stupas typically have eyes painted on the base of the steeple-like pagoda at the top. And there is an interesting link between stupas, Buddhist statuaries, reliquaries, tahōtō (Japanese for a structure between stupa and pagoda), and pagodas. According to anthropologist, Lars Fogelin, stupas were even used for worship, and often by laypeople in a similar fashion to large Buddha statues.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes stupas would also be an interesting thing to consider, they serve a similar role though as you note often they are associated with Buddha relics. As such they can also be seen as tombs or simply as celebratory markers rather than as direct images of the Buddha as a person.

[@terraincognita5139]

I watched few of your videos and I enjoy them. I agree mostly with your frame transitioning from aniconic to representation of Buddha. I’m only a bit concerned why you didn’t mention at all the cornerstone of transition to iconic, Gandhara Art, or Greek-Indian fusion of Bactrian and Kushan (today’s Afghanistan and Pakistan). Taxila, etc. That was the turning point in Buddha’s representation I will enjoy a video depending this part of Buddhist history. Sincerely, Adrian

[@DougsDharma]

Well there is some controversy over exactly where and how the transition to iconism started, though I tend to agree that it probably began around Gandhara, and Gandharan art was extremely influential. I've discussed it in other videos.

[@terraincognita5139]

@@DougsDharma, always is a bit a controversy about ancient times with less records surviving. Can you please point out other videos where you discussed Gandhara transition? I’m interested to learn more about the Gandharan Buddhism and fragments of birchbark manuscripts of the Dhammapada in Gandhari script (the oldest surviving written Buddhist artifacts). A video on this topic will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Adrian

[@joycemccue2984]

i want to become buddhist because it’s the religion that makes most sense to me but it seems like a lot of dedication is needed to follow it correctly

[@DougsDharma]

There is a huge range of practices in Buddhism, I have an earlier video on beginning Buddhist practice that I think shows a lot of it is quite simple: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y5i6hn-NlMZ0gsU

[@rahulratan0]

I want to know about Indian Buddhist King Ashoka, please make a video on him...... 🌷🌷

[@DougsDharma]

Done already! kzbin.info/www/bejne/jGWbameLnJ2MacU

[@OneAndOnly-S9]

That time emperor name is Asok not Ashoka😊

[@OneAndOnly-S9]

That time emperor name is Asok not Ashoka😊

[@glenncambray9783]

And interesting tradition related to Buddhist images is the secret Buddha or "Hibutsu"tradition in Japan. This is present in all traditions of Buddhism but seems to be very prominent with images in Japanese temples. Since the early Heian Period, over 1200 years ago, they have carved images and then essentially kept them from the everyday view of the worshipper. The system may vary, but it is only possible to see the image on special days of the year, perhaps at New Year, or as is often the case, only once every thirty three years. Sometimes it maybe once every sixty years, a hundred years, or in some cases, never, the so called "absolute Hibutsu". It is fascinating to speculate on the reasons for such a tradition but it seems to contain both the elements of permitting and prohibiting people from worshipping the image. (In actual fact the image is still worshipped on a daily basis but not as something seen).It is a wonderful and frustrating tradition, because, if we are patient, eventually the chance comes round, to lay our eyes upon the old treasure. This will be on special festival days called "gokaichou"in the local community and people will come from far and wide to see the great image of the Buddha. On the other hand if one should miss such an opportunity, the likelihood is you may not get another chance to see the image in your lifetime. These statues can very often be National treasures of the greatest significance and value but even so the rule is the rule.Many things change in the modern world but in Japan this tradition seems to be a fairly rigid one. The decision to display the image is entirely at the discretion of the monk and in most cases they seem follow the tradition.

[@DougsDharma]

Would be interesting to learn the history of this practice, it sounds esoteric to me (hidden teachings, etc.)

[@philmcdonald6088]

rest in present awareness be still close eyes listen to your breathing🕸

[@DougsDharma]

🙏

[@NullStaticVoid]

I was about to jump in and say something earlier when you mentioned the Islamic prohibition on likenesses. Besides the contemporary use of them for famous figures like Ayatollah Khameni, I own some Muslim art. Back in the early 90s I was in a band passing through NYC and found a milk crate full of deteriorating books and prints. They range from fairly recent Buddhist depictions to prints of the same style of Persian art. It is interesting to me how they use fire to illustrate that someone has holiness or is enlightened. Perhaps from Zoroastrianism?

[@DougsDharma]

The history of the halo in art is quite interesting, it seems as though Muslim halos may have been influenced by Buddhist iconography. But yes, the Muslim world has a long history of figural representation.

[@digimonsho0123]

Excellent video, again

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks S Harlem!

[@MassiveLib]

The interesting paradox is on one side of the coin modern Buddhism ostensibly self help, self improvement in order to be worthy of enlightenment. The other side is the actual truth in the sutras such as the Diamond and Lanka that clearly states there is no self... No wonder so few people understand buddha.

[@squiddwizzard8850]

Small nitpick, the issues with icons was actually originally within Orthodoxy in the iconoclasm innthe Byzantine church. Protestant churchs would later continue the tradition. The Byzanttines even smash existing icons.

[@Magnulus76]

The Greeks and Bactrians seem to have brought widespread use of icons into Buddhism.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes the Kushan empire played a role in their introduction, or so it seems. Though the precise historical development is still contested.

[@rileyvonbevern4652]

I keep a small shrine as a reminder of my practices but a stature is simply a statue

[@DougsDharma]

Exactly so Riley.

[@nikhilhumane5540]

Excellent

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks Nikhil!

[@smilefoodies2031]

Thank you

[@DougsDharma]

You're very welcome Smile!

[@j.gabrielcamattari4701]

wasn't there some kind of Greek influence as well? or is that just conjecture?

[@DougsDharma]

It's possible there was some Hellenistic influence through early coinage or the like, but murky.

[@austinhill5825]

Hey Doug could you do a video on dogen?

[@DougsDharma]

It's something I might do eventually though my knowledge of Dōgen isn't what it would need to be to do a video yet! 🙂

[@cutebaby8185]

The Buddha statue is not a idol it is blessed by mantras and thus is manifestation of his consciousness. Namo Amitabha Buddha

[@DougsDharma]

Well it certainly can be seen that way. Thanks cute!

[@Chase_Istre]

Is amitabha Buddha idol worship?

[@jcdecarlo7369]

Can you do a video on the Tibetan book of the dead please.

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks for the suggestion JC. My general focus is on early Buddhism, and the Tibetan Book of the Dead is a much later, medieval text. Nevertheless it's something I might do eventually.

[@jcdecarlo7369]

@@DougsDharma Thank you so much for replying. I do have a question. What type of Buddhism does teach that book? And is it part of buddhas teaching or did it come later?

[@pierrolosapio1042]

@@jcdecarlo7369 It definitly has similarities with Buddhas teachings and has the same cosmology but it goes much more into depth about the other realms and what happens at the moments of death than the teachings of buddha. One could argue The Tibetan Book of The Dead (in reality it's called 'the bardos') is from a Buddha because Tibet has a long lineague of buddhas passing those various Path's and teachings to enlightenment.

[@jcdecarlo7369]

@@pierrolosapio1042 Thank you for that information that's something that I didn't know. I'm just trying to wrap my head around all the books and buddhas teaching.

[@SlothinAintEasy]

I think intent is important. Are statues of historical figures idols? Statues of art? Feel free to correct me though!

[@DougsDharma]

🙏😊

[@NoUsar-yq8gl]

Doug, do you think that buddhist statues may have been borrowed or taken from pre-made Hindu or Jain figurines and temples, and the current buddha image is just some kind of takeover (remake) of previous ready images that existed in India? Something Like vajarayana buddhism merges with cult of Shiva

[@DougsDharma]

The origin of Buddhist statues and iconography is fascinating but still unclear. In general iconography of particular individuals in India wasn't popular until around the turn of the Common Era. My guess is that it arrived in India with coinage (depicting kings) coming out of places like Persia and Greece, melding with local Indian iconography. There was Buddhist iconography prior to there being statues of the Buddha, though it didn't typically involve depicting the Buddha himself.

[@ilknurilhan8320]

Strangely, Qur'an never forbids making the imagery of humans including Mohammad. It only forbids worshiping icons saying "You are worshipping nothing except idols besides Him, and you are creating fabrications. Those that you worship besides God do not possess for you any provision, so seek with God the provision". I guess with some interpretation and by means of later sources other than Qur'an, making imagery became forbidden. Also, in Qur'an it is kinda forbidden to do any harm to icons of other religions, since in verse 6;108 it says "Do not insult those whom they invoke other than God!.." Therefore, i think, from a Quran based perspective neither idolizing Mohammad enough to punish anyone who paints him, nor destroying the idols of other religions is acceptable.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes thanks, historically many Islamic cultures created images, even some of religious importance.

[@Tavarna]

We use the word 'put' in Turkish language today. Just checked the etymology and it was indeed from buddha.

[@DougsDharma]

Interesting, thanks Hüseyin! 🙏

[@Stephanie_Vincent]

Long time watcher, first time commenter-I love your videos! I'm a Christian who also follows the teachings of Buddha and it's very annoying but understandable historically that I have to explain that we do not worship Buddha as a god and his statues are not idols.

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks Stephanie! Yes historically there has been a lot of misunderstanding of the role of icons and statues in Buddhism. To be fair, there is also a great range of Buddhist practice as well, just as in any religion.

[@Sawo-500]

I am a Buddhist. But, I am not worship idols. I am follow Teachings and meditations.

[@andregonzalez1496]

🙏🙏🙏🙏✍ Take what you need and) leave the rest. 🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰

[@DougsDharma]

🙏😊

[@sheeltushar798]

This is incorrect as Asoka built many statues of the Buddha under the guidance of fully enlightened monks and Buddhist shrines are incomplete without the statues and the Buddha often told about the merits of worshipping the Buddha shrine .

[@DougsDharma]

I haven't heard that Asoka built statues of the Buddha, and they aren't discussed in the scholarly literature. Which statues are these?

[@sachinjain377]

True. People dont understand the concept of Idol and start making statements about it based on the propagation of ideology by Abhramic religions.

[@keithtrickey3482]

Then why have i read over the decades that the Buddha when asked buy followers that thay may not see him for a long time is it ok to have a state of him.He said it was ok but only if thay understood it to represent more appreciation to him eg: his dharma teachings than of worship like the Hindus did of god.

[@DougsDharma]

I don't think the Buddha ever discussed images of himself in the early suttas. Images seem to have arisen well after his lifetime.

[@keithtrickey3482]

@@DougsDharma yea you most probably right if i think about it iv read Elvis is still alive 🙃 your video is the first time iv heard anyone really discuss it most. i have gone to a Theravada temple here in melbourne Australia over the yrs when i can get there & if i ask any questions thay don't answer it you have to write it down & put your question i a box & then never hear anything. So i read stuff out of books & Internet.im glad i come across your chanel you at least try to explain things & you have lots of knowledge iv subscribed 👍

[@DipayanPyne94]

I hope you are still watching his videos, Keith ! 😄

[@lokeshgsadhmaya5499]

One question. Is there any reference about the looks of Budhha like fair,tall, skinny, or something like that?

[@middlewayers]

33 marks of a great man were present... you can search about 33 marks

[@SalmanKhan-wu2fc]

Sir.what is buddha?

[@Sawo-500]

Buddha meaning enlightened one. Gautama Buddha is a enlightenment person. He was born in Nepal. Ok

[@muayboran6111]

Yeah, so buddhists need to stop telling other people we worship the statue. Why? If you don't understand it then stop speaking for it

[@CosmicGorilla]

Sir, I believe that there may be an ontological destination between an image and an idol. It is delusional to associate an image of a thing with the thing itself, this is a form of essentialism. I use a gömböc in my meditative practice but I know that it is only a gömböc and represents the concept of equilibrium and emotional calm to me. If an image is used to remind one of a concept it is not idolatry. The Abrahamic faiths prohibit images because YHWY told the Israelites not to make graven images (actually referring to hieroglyphs) and idols, for similar reasons, Ashera poles, Dagon, etc. In my view Abrahamic religions are delusional and need not be referenced when cultivating ones mind. Buddhism is as delusional and brings about similar attachments, delusions and conceits in its followers. Would you be willing to explore, in a different video the role in which images and objects can play in one who wishes to free oneself from delusion and conceit? I would find that very useful.

[@DougsDharma]

I'll consider it Rob, thanks for your comment!

[@CosmicGorilla]

Doug's Dharma Thank you master Doug.

[@miiigoreng]

Perhaps his relics are evaluated by DNA someday, revealing how he actually looked?

[@DougsDharma]

Well the question with relics is always going to be whose are they really? It's said there are enough "relics" of the "true cross" to build a ship.

[@Simonjose7258]

The Bactrian empire.

[@DougsDharma]

What about it?

[@lahirudharmasena8764]

Alright sir. First of all, in Buddhism we do not worship the Buddha. Siddhartha was just a normal human being like us all. He was not some sort of "god" or "source of power" that we worship him. Idolatry simply means the worship of idols, and not the practice of keeping idols. The word idolatry can never go hand in hand with Buddhism, because we don't worship anything in Buddhism--at least from the Theravada perspective.

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks for your comment Lahiru. Did you watch the video?

[@lahirudharmasena8764]

@@DougsDharma I did indeed. Please don't get me wrong, I wasn't trying to criticize your video. I know it is hard to decipher tone when typing.

[@tesstess7005]

HOW FOOL PRINCE SIDDHARTHA WAS NOT A NORMAL HUMAN BEING LIKE US HE HAS COMPLETED ALL THE PARAMITHAS FOR BILLIONS OF YEARS OR LIFETIMES.

[@jaynecooney9549]

It’s against the law gods law it’s prohibited it’s not allowed

[@DougsDharma]

Yes this is how some religions frame the issue.

[@jaynecooney9549]

Doug's Dharma it is in the bible and the catholic religion flawts it

[@jaynecooney9549]

@Siyovaxsh En-sipad-zid-ana yes and new

[@miguelatkinson]

​@@jaynecooney9549you are aware this is only a thing in your religion and other religions like yours right ?

[@winphet]

"Idolatry" is a concept, "God" is a concept, "Prohibition" is a concept, "Paganism" is a concept. Its exists because you think it youselves, its exists because you conceive it. All these concepts (Idolatry, God, Prohibition, Paganism...) are not reality, the reality is you, me , them and what you, me, them do. What I do is my reality, my life... as my life, my reality your concept don't prevail. If we have wisdom, we should know not to impose our concept to the others, do not use a concept especialy our own concept to judge, to condem, to hurt and to kill other people, to force other people to apply our concept.

[@DougsDharma]

Certainly winphet. If we are using concepts out of hatred to harm others, we are not behaving skillfully.

[@winphet]

@@DougsDharma Yes, but many concepts are so harmful, oppressive, intolerant such idolatry, blasphemy, apostasy, sinful, paganism, hell, even concept like heaven..Concept should be used to improve our life, our relation, our human being, our economy... Eating, drinking is a fact, a reality but we can improve it with concept such tea ceremony, french breakfast, english breakfast, english tea...decoration, fashion are positive concept. Your concept of decoration is nice.

[@DipayanPyne94]

Nice, winphet. Just so you know, there are many kinds of Healthy Breakfast, other than French and English. Just saying 😂

[@MrDesoto33]

Moses originally said no gods BEFORE me vds tge prophets later who said no gods. He was only emphasizing that God - OM has no shape or form. The ten Commandments were given after tge Isrealites rejected the teachings of Moses preferring to dance around a golden calf instead...lol. They told Moses no they don't want to know YHWH but you go and come back and tell us what to do. Personally I question the details thinking that Moses became angry knowing that the Ten Commandments will never lead to God (OM-YHWH) realization so smashed them out of frustration. The Mosaic law is good and healthy and multidimensional as the Jews can stand with the integrity and character/virtue these laws instill in them while the heathen rage is thrown into hell. Moses did understand this type of angelic warfare as it's rooted in YHWH, knowing as a general rule of thumb what will stand in the sight of God and what will fall...all too often into hell. I brought up angelic warfare because here in the physical world gods or kings etc. are always attacked in a decapitation war strategy...they call it cutting off the head of the serpent. The Catholic Trojan horse camouflaged as a church does this to any other type of religion they deem as "business " competition killing, robbingng and destroying in the name of this Greco-Roman god Jesus. Christ's name isn't "Jesus ". Cygnus, Apollus; Didymus, Justus, Cornelius, ....Jesus. Perverting the real teachings of Christ..Issa/Isha yet Christ still autographed the Holy Bible via the cone of Lifetrons-Chi prana that hovers over it. Shaped like a tee-pee I say because the Indians the Trojan horse slaughtered, " pretend your trying to help them and get their gold" one diary ledger of a Spanish crusaders said. It's great the Greeks and Roman's immortalized the gift of salvation Christ left mankind/womanhood. This salvation is on a lower astral world relative to the salvation of Buddhism (meditation) yet WOW! I probably went into more detail on this in other comments. The metaphysial properties of the salvation of Christ vs the metaphysial properties of the salvation of Buddhism (meditation). The point then is getting to OM (YHWH, Tao, Allah, In the beginning was the Word, Christ conciousness...vs having to be told like kids that have no understanding via the Ten Commandments and Mosaic law.

[@shogiten]

It was good until you started saying some things that were wrong. A image of buddha would never have been allowed into Mecca and certainly not displayed. Also Islam never started making images unless they were Shias. Statues never, maybe paintings, and those paintings hide the prophets face, which is nowhere near the full depiction of a diety as a statue.

[@DougsDharma]

I suggest checking out Johan Elverskog's book, linked in the description. He discusses just that: a time at which at least one such image was displayed in Mecca.

[@shogiten]

@@DougsDharma Ill take a look