Does Consciousness Arise in the Brain?

A cognitive scientist asks Rupert about the brain's correlation to consciousness and if consciousness will die with the death of the brain.
From the weekend in Amsterdam, September 2018. For access to the full length recording see link: non-duality.rupertspira.com/w...
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[@kilifischkopp1442]

As a PSychology student myself this guy just posed the exact question I always wanted to ask him...Amazing.

[@Blake-om7cm]

What did you think of his answer?

[@kilifischkopp1442]

@@Blake-om7cm I think he made a moral argument (with the Alien visit) which doesn't really help to find the truth. Because there are a lot of atrocities going on even outside the human world. There are caterpillars whose lifecycle involves living in a sheep's eye for example. But the other answer involving scientists' refusal to acknowledge consciousness as primary fact I think he really nailed. One prof. of ours said that someone explained to him how consciousness could exist outside the body. And that he was quite impressed. But that he thought that it didn't fit at all all else that we knew about the brain and the universe. And that that was reason alone to not really go into that direction. So science absolutely rests on the convention that we accept a coherent body of research from the past as true and then question, add, or replace a tiny fragment that fundamentally is in line with that body of research.. I see Rupert's point of that being a huge problem. The problem to me is that no scientist is trained enough in meditation to really know what is referred to by meditators as consciousness (''What does that even mean?'' Richard DAwkins). And most meditators aren'T trained in science. .. But some are like Ajahn Brahm or Jeff Foster.. I jiust chose to trust them at this point.

[@issness_god]

@@kilifischkopp1442 yes, this is very true. I got a sense that it was energetic but it came from the body rather than my mind. i can't really explain it. energetic sounds so woo. it's curious how people who have dmt/etc experiences seem to have this experience of oneness and their fear of death goes away, as spoken about by peterson (food of the gods)

[@angrysammo]

My mind may forever seek to understand the world but this here just further reveals to me the futility in 'understanding' life

[@darrenfromla]

Rupert is right to say we have never experienced anything outside of consciousness. How can anybody deny that? But he moves into conceptual abstraction when he makes unnecessary conclusions about what this means. Rupert has no way of verifying that the universe is only consciousness just because he himself has never experienced anything outside of consciousness. Rupert, like many before him, is making the universe in his image, in the nicest way possible.

[@fluentpiffle]

It is disingenuous to say that everything is 'consciousness'. This comes from the belief that we need some kind of 'divine intervention' in order to 'do the right thing'. But we have thousands of years of empirical evidence that this is not the case, apart from the fact that our genuine method of enquiry, deduction from necessity, points to consciousness not even being a universal requirement at all.. Indeed, we see no evidence for it anywhere in the rest of existence, and it may in fact also be another human-invented term for something that does not even exist, in reality.. The plausibility factor leads us to the latter conclusion. Therefore, the most plausible solution to the 'consciousness' issue, deduced from necessity, is that consciousness is simply another evolving aspect of the motions of space (energy). As, to posit anything 'else' is simply unnecessary.. "We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances." (Sir Isaac Newton, Principia: The system of the world) All false 'morality' must inevitably dissolve into hypocrisy when it is not founded on truth.. And indeed, this is exactly what has happened within current 'society'.. We 'do the right thing' only when we have genuine understanding of what the 'right thing' is.. When we are forced to take responsibility for our own actions, we do so, because any other action would be understood as one of insanity, leading to self-destruction, which it currently is, and as Nietzsche was able to intuit.. "There is nothing more necessary than truth, and in comparison with it everything else has only secondary value. This absolute will to truth: what is it? Is it the will to not allow ourselves to be deceived? Is it the will not to deceive? One does not want to be deceived, under the supposition that it is injurious, dangerous, or fatal to be deceived." (Friedrich Nietzsche, 1890) "And isn't it a bad thing to be deceived about the truth, and a good thing to know what the truth is? For I assume that by knowing the truth you mean knowing things as they really are. The philosopher is in love with truth, that is, not with the changing world of sensation, which is the object of opinion, but with the unchanging reality which is the object of knowledge. Truthfulness. He will never willingly tolerate an untruth, but will hate it as much as he loves truth. ... And is there anything more closely connected with wisdom than truth? The object of knowledge is what exists and its function to know about reality." (Plato) "The fundamental element of the cosmos is Space. Space is the all-embracing principle of higher unity. Nothing can exist without Space. .. According to ancient Indian tradition the Universe reveals itself in two fundamental properties: as Motion and as that in which motion takes place, namely Space. This Space is called Akasa .. derived from the root kas, 'to radiate, to shine', and has therefore the meaning of ether which is conceived as the medium of movement. The principle of movement, however, is Prana, the breath of life, the all-powerful, all-pervading rhythm of the universe." (Lama Anagarika Govinda, 1969) "Choose only one master, Nature." (Rembrandt) 'Consciousness' does not create anything. It is only possible to be 'conscious' of that which actually exists.. You can create any kind of delusion you like in your mind, but you cannot be 'conscious' of things that do not actually exist. Beyond 'observation' there is then the process of 'interpretation', and this is where most people fail themselves..and unconsciously produce the very evidence that 'consciousness' is not 'everywhere'.. "History abundantly shows that people's views of the universe are bound up with their views of themselves and of their society. The debate in cosmology has implications far beyond the realm of science, for it is a question of how truth is known. How these questions are answered will shape not only the history of science, but the history of humanity." (Eric Lerner, 1992)

[@eviechris1]

Yes, I have just been blessed with listening to both Rupert and Bernardo Kastrup this past Tuesday at Bernardo's course; "With Reality in Mind'. We could clearly see the love and respect of these like-minded souls.

[@thormusique]

Beautifully presented, as always. And regarding the "reality" of matter, Einstein said that matter is an illusion; everything is pure energy.

[@sergiomiranda8857]

did he say that matter is an illusion or time is an illusion?

[@thormusique]

Sergio Miranda He said “matter “, but then of course by his own definition, that would include time, as according to general relativity, gravity is a result of mass distorting space-time, and our perception of time is an effect of gravity.

[@sergiomiranda8857]

@@stefanschneider8962 not implying anything. Just curious of what he actually said. I would like to read about it.

[@sergiomiranda8857]

@@thormusique is there a specific source? I would like to read more into what he said.

[@willembont4790]

Excellent presentation. Thanks for sharing.

[@dmitrii7661]

Today I had a profound Awakening and can confirm all Rupert said from first hand experience!

[@TigerDragonStorm]

Welcome to the Truth :)

[@Dhorpatan]

You cant confirm anything Rupert said.

[@cbmcbm2845]

@@Dhorpatan until YOU experiences !!!

[@Sydebern]

@@Dhorpatan It's not something that you can prove to another. It's a realisation that is undoubtable, undeniable to yourself.

[@vigneshkg5370]

Ecletic media its your mind forming this conclusions to escape the truth.... thats why all the realised beings say its very simple...but difficult... everything is witnessed mind is witnessed the object makes conclusions about the subject what a joke 😂😂

[@GioGhirardi]

Beautifull conversation!

[@tammietruongenglish3618]

much love and appreciation. Your Wisdom is timeless.

[@torstenthomasbetschart6746]

Becuase it never existed I assume.

[@lordaiesan5050]

It says, Do not assume anything, but Question everything.

[@lordaiesan5050]

@SavageArfad the consciousness itself is an infinite source which is totally unknownable for human perception. you mean the Mind's Subconscious or..?

[@torstenthomasbetschart6746]

Unless about consciousness - there we of course assume that it is an external entity superceeding everything. If you don't assume anything, why is it so hard for people to actually do so and magically manage to select the parts they personally don't like to not assume anything?

[@01assassinscreed63]

@@torstenthomasbetschart6746 Question everything that has been assumed

[@kennethfurr7397]

This video is pure beauty.

[@Weirduniverse2]

a philosopher called goran backlund has resolved this issue and provided a rock solid proof that matter does not even exist in his book "refuting the external world". he also has a very good blog! this gentleman should read both (as should anyone who is stuck on this problem)

[@common_man1337]

Thanks for the recommendation! Seems like an impossible claim, but I'll give it a read.

[@mementomori5374]

I love how he explains things very intelligent

[@amitpingle3717]

Does conciouness only experince by enlighten people ?

[@mementomori5374]

Enlightened beings realise that they are awareness itself. Thats it, maybe you at this moment aren’t realising it but you will eventually realise who you truly are and being aware of being aware is just the first step towards enlightenment

[@Bjarku]

Wow this guy asked the EXACT question I’ve always wanted to ask Rupert. If there was some central part of the brain where consciousness takes place which is aware of all other activity in the brain you would think that every neuron would have to be mapped to that area somehow and you would find connections running to that area from every part of the brain but as far as I know we haven’t found that.

[@susanarupolo2212]

Thank you Rupert. My experience is that the honest seeker will receive the answer at his or her own time. Consciousness is all generous and open to give us time !!

[@TheWizard10008]

Rupert Spira is love. Thank you 🙏

[@mrkcioffi]

Rupert handled this brilliantly. Rupert is not confused!🙏

[@lawreence-5234]

Thank you so very much 🙏🌷☘️

[@Ymiraku]

this is brilliant

[@krischnakrischna]

i love the so very silent prakriti flowers next to the orator....my salutations...

[@jpmarques7]

The experience argument can be used both ways. Just like we “experienced” the geocentric universe, we might experience consciousness as something other than a byproduct of the brain. Could be an illusion too. Just for the sake of the argument

[@mohdshahnawaz3864]

Consciousness is the reality that perceives. If consciousness is an illusion then how can it perceive something real. In other words, how can something which is not real percieve something real.

[@davidmears1705]

⁠ maybe none of it is real and we have an idea or concept that things are real. Real is an illusion

[@davecros4887]

Everything is one. We exist in a sea of consciousness that is everywhere, not just within our heads. Your consciousness extends outside of your body. This will be generally accepted in the future.

[@ChannelDefault]

If you inspect the electric activity inside your smartphone or computer hardware while having a live video call with someone, you might see some correlation. For example, when the voice of the speaker goes higher, you might notice some pattern in the electric signals going higher. Is this enough evidence to conclude that the real speaker/hearer is in the smartphone?!

[@GB3770]

v good ofc no....

[@lovaticdreamer14]

Excellent analogy love that

[@lilianq24]

Yes!

[@entschnabler]

I also like the analogy. But to stretch it a bit: as long as i am unaware of/ have not found the antenna of the smartphone as physical evidence for a original speaker/hearer located outside of the phone i can also not assume that there is a speaker/hearer outside of the phone (given a world where we would not associate a talking phone with a person calling). The last remaining option would be that the voice is a record. That would translate to me as fate, that there is no "live" interaction and life is nothing but a play :D but maybe i overstretched the analogy at this point

[@ChannelDefault]

@@entschnabler First, analogies shouldn't be taken far from the point they are trying to make. I wanted to debunk the belief that the scientific finding of the correlation between brain activity and mind is evidence that Consciousness is a product of matter. Second, it's helpful to define what we mean by Consciousness, because different people refer to different meanings when they use the term. So my definition is this: Whatever it is that is truly (and not allegedly!) perceiving these letters right now. Notice that we can be uncertain about the content of perceiving, as you might be dreaming them, but I hope that it is clear to you that the fact that there is perceiving right now is beyond the shadow of a doubt. Try to deny to yourself that you are perceiving, and see if that works. In other words, we cannot pretend it's not there, meaning we (Consciousness) know it is/we are Real. Notice that this definition emphasizes the perceiving/experiencing/knowing element of experience, rather than the content of it. I think an interesting question is, where does this certainty of Consciousness (that which experiences being certain of it's own existence here-now) come from? Why can't we reach the same level of Absolute certainty with anything else .. including scientific facts? Isn't this worth investigating? Doesn't that at least hint that it is Reality itself .. since afterall it's certainly real? The only obstacle to that conclusion is that we believe and feel that Consciousness (that which perceives) is the body ... so it's utterly arrogant and stupid to say that this little speck of "star dust" is Reality!. But if we investigate this belief, starting from the facts of experience combined with reason, we cannot find any evidence in support of it. Don't take any one words for this (including those holy Gurus, teachers as well as high IQ scientists), do yourself justice and investigate the truth of this claim if you have the interest, since you are Consciousness itself.

[@PrasadBangera]

Rupert seems to be a little unprepared for this question. The question was a very good one. There are many who are desperately trying to seek the truth in matter. The fact shows their earnestness in trying to make it tangible. That is what realization is, it is tangible, it should be palpable. Many believe the brain to be the Ultimate source of everything. With it's end, everything ends. The thing here is that Rupert followed the narrative of the scientist and revoked the theory. It may sound interesting as a dialogue but all consciousness we know or have has it's presence with the body being alive. Once the body goes, this consciousness also goes because there is no subject-object. We go to sleep state and float in our dream world projected by thoughts. Here we know we exist but this can only be asserted in the waking state. Then from dream we again sink into the deep sleep and here again we know we existed and this again can be asserted only in the waking state. If we watch all this, the problem here is assertion of "I-ness"/"consciousness"; and this we can only do in the waking state. When we see this, we feel the brain alone is real. The great challenge here is to not chase consciousness but awareness and this awareness can only be known through deep meditation and not the reality on body and mind. It is almost a death experience where all cognition ends and all concepts including the "I" dissolve. We discover our true nature. One may argue that this may be the brain as well. But the answer is, "I don't care any more". My fears are over. My desires are seen to be an illusion and death is just a thought. I am free and hence I do not care whether it is of the brain, mind or intelligence. Knowing 'That' there is nothing more to be known, nothing more to be desired. It is that Eternal Seer, Eternal Existence, the Eternal Subject and that, 'I am'. 'I am' incorporeal. All these intuitive experiences can alone assert the existence of Consciousness Absolute which is better termed as Awareness. These discussions are valid but it's important to take the aspirant to subjective understanding and experience that promotes fearless, love and bliss.

[@fluentpiffle]

It is disingenuous to say that everything is 'consciousness'. This comes from the belief that we need some kind of 'divine intervention' in order to 'do the right thing'. But we have thousands of years of empirical evidence that this is not the case, apart from the fact that our genuine method of enquiry, deduction from necessity, points to consciousness not even being a universal requirement at all.. Indeed, we see no evidence for it anywhere in the rest of existence, and it may in fact also be another human-invented term for something that does not even exist, in reality.. The plausibility factor leads us to the latter conclusion. Therefore, the most plausible solution to the 'consciousness' issue, deduced from necessity, is that consciousness is simply another evolving aspect of the motions of space (energy). As, to posit anything 'else' is simply unnecessary.. "We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances." (Sir Isaac Newton, Principia: The system of the world) All false 'morality' must inevitably dissolve into hypocrisy when it is not founded on truth.. And indeed, this is exactly what has happened within current 'society'.. We 'do the right thing' only when we have genuine understanding of what the 'right thing' is.. When we are forced to take responsibility for our own actions, we do so, because any other action would be understood as one of insanity, leading to self-destruction, which it currently is, and as Nietzsche was able to intuit.. "There is nothing more necessary than truth, and in comparison with it everything else has only secondary value. This absolute will to truth: what is it? Is it the will to not allow ourselves to be deceived? Is it the will not to deceive? One does not want to be deceived, under the supposition that it is injurious, dangerous, or fatal to be deceived." (Friedrich Nietzsche, 1890) "And isn't it a bad thing to be deceived about the truth, and a good thing to know what the truth is? For I assume that by knowing the truth you mean knowing things as they really are. The philosopher is in love with truth, that is, not with the changing world of sensation, which is the object of opinion, but with the unchanging reality which is the object of knowledge. Truthfulness. He will never willingly tolerate an untruth, but will hate it as much as he loves truth. ... And is there anything more closely connected with wisdom than truth? The object of knowledge is what exists and its function to know about reality." (Plato) "The fundamental element of the cosmos is Space. Space is the all-embracing principle of higher unity. Nothing can exist without Space. .. According to ancient Indian tradition the Universe reveals itself in two fundamental properties: as Motion and as that in which motion takes place, namely Space. This Space is called Akasa .. derived from the root kas, 'to radiate, to shine', and has therefore the meaning of ether which is conceived as the medium of movement. The principle of movement, however, is Prana, the breath of life, the all-powerful, all-pervading rhythm of the universe." (Lama Anagarika Govinda, 1969) "Choose only one master, Nature." (Rembrandt) 'Consciousness' does not create anything. It is only possible to be 'conscious' of that which actually exists.. You can create any kind of delusion you like in your mind, but you cannot be 'conscious' of things that do not actually exist. Beyond 'observation' there is then the process of 'interpretation', and this is where most people fail themselves..and unconsciously produce the very evidence that 'consciousness' is not 'everywhere'.. "History abundantly shows that people's views of the universe are bound up with their views of themselves and of their society. The debate in cosmology has implications far beyond the realm of science, for it is a question of how truth is known. How these questions are answered will shape not only the history of science, but the history of humanity." (Eric Lerner, 1992)

[@mariekuijkenhistoricallyaw2598]

I love this man.

[@johnbrowne8744]

Excellent.

[@mrbogdanoff9233]

consciousness gives rise to matter

[@michaelseale7268]

At a practical level, it might help subjects to relate the brain with Consciousness as the body’s filter/portal to it. Consciousness is not in our brain but it serves as a conduit in our space/time dimension to it.

[@lordaiesan5050]

After the decades Ov confusion that I have seen around the people in order to define or classify these words or to means by words. I believe there are things and qualities in the world that can not be fit in just a single word or words perhaps the words could never be enough to. it's my conclusion after years Ov researches. It is a general thing, "Conscious- Consciousness" 1. I am "Alive" ,(therefor) as I am "Aware" Ov both self and the world,(therefor)as I am able to"Perceive" and "Conceive" my self-the world. (Therefor by Thoughts, feelings and senses)

[@Ilstube1]

We know experimentally that behavior patterns, emotions, memory, personality are connected with the brain, and significant damage to cerebral cortex means permanent coma, and unawareness, so there is some evidence that the brain is the basis of all conscious experience. Wish there was a way to definitively see beyond this lurking doubt.

[@Kumar-hl4jj]

Matter is energy(Shakti) and consciousness(shiva)

[@Dhorpatan]

That is a bare assertion fallacy.

[@cbmcbm2845]

@@Dhorpatan translation may not always be perfect. Shiva and Shakti have more and deeper meaning in themselves in addition to Consciousness and energy !!! You will be definitely surprised to know about their working principles in different situations, ages, bodies, etc !!! Om Namah Shivaya

[@jeffreyjdesir]

Hare krsna ✌🏿

[@DanielColageo]

If I could ‘thumbs up’ this more than once, I would.

[@mindfulkayaker7737]

When I receive a call in my cell phone there is a perfect correlation between the voice in the phone and the electrical circuits inside it. However we all know that the voice was generated by another person located in another cell phone perhaps thousand of miles apart

[@timenixe]

The questioner had good questions. The guy shown is twisting things around.

[@davidhollyfield5148]

Really good questions from a really sincere seeker... I wasn't completely satisfied with Rupert's assertions. The assumption that consciousness arises from matter COULD be correct, just as the opposite COULD be correct. I didn't feel that anything was resolved by this conversation... My personal view is that both are mutually inclusive, that neither could exist without the other. It's a false dichotomy based on our dualistic perception of the world. There is no separation...

[@learneroftruth8025]

You can investigate this for yourself and resolve it. Which one is constant and which one is intermittent? The physical world of matter disappears every night, awareness never ceases.

[@darrenfromla]

@@learneroftruth8025 how do you know that consciousness is constant? It might vanish when you die. We can't know right?

[@01assassinscreed63]

@@darrenfromla we can in future after defining consiusness through physics

[@novusstudios1744]

@@darrenfromla well after a second passes we're still conscious of the second that passed, what you would be suggesting is that each interval of time there is a new consciousness being generated?

[@darrenfromla]

​@@novusstudios1744 To my mind there is no actual "second" that passes to be conscious of. Just a conceptualization of a second which is just consciousness in the form of thought at that moment. Maybe there is a new consciousness being generated. Who knows? Rupert sure doesn't.

[@mariobartholomew]

From my perspective the problem is most people dont understand the difference between "Consciousness Awareness" the Knowing or Awareness of experience, timeless and infinite, never started, never stops, and the "Content of Consciousness" being thoughts, sensations and perceptions, objects we are aware of, which indeed is an emergent phenomena, a bain process, information processing etc etc. Make this difference as big as possible, by taking more interest in "Consciousness Awareness" rather than the "Content of Consciousness". The problem is most people are lost in their thoughts, lost in the "Content of Consciousness", not spending more time looking at that Awareness that Witnesses the experience of being lost in their thoughts. They wrongly belive they are their thoughts, sensations and pereceptions. They see all the objects in a room but dont consider the space that allows all the objects in the room to exist! Then they also wrongly belive if we destroy the objects in the room, the space that contains those objects is also gone. Pity them. Abide in the Awareness more and more, and see what happens. Offcourse if you have a unsubstinated belief that this "Content of Consciousness" is also brain produced, is also an object in the "Content of Consciousness" , and stick to that then its never ending suffering.

[@JuanHugeJanus]

Does it matter...

[@nitishpandey515]

As i have always maintained, it's not merely the space time continuum. It is in fact the consciousness -space -time continuum. Nothing without consciousness. Everything is because of the consciousness. The big bang was the diffusion of the consciousness. We and everything living is connected. We can't see it because of our limitations. That last bit is an exaggeration :)

[@flafaloon]

Every night we close our eyes and dream of seeing matter. What sees when there is no eyes to see?

[@awarenesszen8321]

The visual spatial scratch pad? Linked to a part of the brain from numerous studies.

[@jennypatton645]

It might be a vehicle to open the gates to consciousness . By its force of energy that it use to allow the person to access it

[@vincentcausey8498]

Roger Penrose maintains that consciousness "is not a computation", but then tries to dance around the obvious implications by arguing that it comes from quantum effects in the microtubes withing the brain.

[@jennypatton645]

Energy its energy people that is alive.

[@amitpingle3717]

Please help me know about enlightment is only after experience of conciouness or conciouness is what we can know by daily pratice

[@monsterhuntervideos4446]

A model that confirms to the evidence of experience? Like the fact that we experience the Earth not moving and we experience that up is up and down is down? We experience the heavenly bodies moving around us. If we go by experience (which we should) then we should know we're being lied to.

[@vvolfflovv]

The brain feels almost like a receiver with machine learning built into it that can trigger what we refer to as consciousness through a variety of means

[@laChivez]

Everything is arising spontaneous in consciousness Nothing reacts to anything It just appears This is a clever explanation of the mind why it does so but there is no reason for it

[@vvolfflovv]

@@laChivez Well one thing I am quite certain of is that when I took hallucinogens as a teenager, it completely changed what I was conscious about and it even got me never smoke cigarettes again

[@andrewfrench6850]

Plugs receive electricity and tv sets receive broadcast programmes, but that doesn't prove or imply that they are generating that which they receive and which flows through them. In the same way, the brain does not necessarily generate or trigger consciousness just because it cannot operate without it.

[@Shane7492]

How can you see without eyes? I ask that every time I'm seeing things in a dream.

[@antoniostapleton806]

Somebody always coughs in the background

[@MMAGUY13]

Hahahah so true

[@kuroryudairyu4567]

It's a must cliché, it must exist, as reality

[@dr.susheelkhemariya8966]

Thanks gretitude RupertspiraDhanyabadDhanyabadDhanyabadThanks

[@sumanjoshi7902]

Who is the scientist you Quoted? Aastrub? Can’t find him.

[@Erik-V]

Bernardo Kastrup probably

[@streamofperception3167]

Bernardo Kastrup.

[@kuroryudairyu4567]

❤️💪💪💪🙏❤️Let's hope it's truly thus

[@kilifischkopp1442]

Abstractions can be tested through making predictions that are based on the abstraction. Someone can formulate an abstract hypothesis and indirectly test its truth value by making predictions about observable phenomena that must also be true if the abstract hypothesis were true. If these predictions turn out to be reliable, then you have tested the abstraction and it can be seen as true. Or what is Ruperts problem with that ??

[@garrettdenny3643]

But what about things that are not aware of their experience, are they still “conscious”

[@01assassinscreed63]

You can't tell

[@indicphilosopher8772]

No, matter is not conscious Trees are not conscious Only beings which have some body along with brain, spinal cord, nerves, receptors are conscious

[@yungblade7]

@@indicphilosopher8772 u are wrong

[@indicphilosopher8772]

@@yungblade7 Shut up

[@user-uf5db1tn8t]

It's true that we cannot find anything that is prior to consciousness, but that doesn't prove that it wasn't so. The argument could be made that there was matter before lifeforms had the complexity to generate what we call consciousness. I personally don't believe that matter can generate consciousness, but that argument could be made. Both sides of the argument seem unprovable. I have settled the conflict within myself by deciding that it would follow that if the brain is the seat of consciousness (or awareness) that when the brain changes, which it certainly does, then consciousness would also change as a result. But, we know that does not happen. Ps, If this leads to what about massive brain damage etc. then we are entering into a discussion on death which is a separate matter.

[@willyouwright]

our body knows how to function without our brain.. Our thought and knowledge does not know how the gut works.. our thinking mind does not know how to divide a cell. thought and feelings and knowledge happen after being.. perception feelings thought knowledge are all human traits. and have no place in the realm of are sub atomic parts.. It could be that a part of our brain has learnt to mimic the act of feeling and perception. I think its more plausible than our brain actually being the entity having perception..Regardless.. Questions like these come from a fear of our present body dying. which in this case we probably cant stop.. People flock to these cos there hoping to find out a way of not dying. But its our emptiness which survives and not this physical body so we search in vein..

[@johnb8854]

*Consciousness is the "LINK" between "LIFE The Real Self", ( AWARENESS ) and the contents of a "Program BOOK" from the Permanent Libraries of "The Processing System of LIFE", being displayed in the form of a "Holographic Simulation" i.e. "Virtual Reality" in a very, very small Display Register of "The Processing System of LIFE !*

[@amitpingle3717]

Can conciouness can by experince by enlighten people only?

[@EricGross]

I questionnaire, I believe, raises a good question. If the part of the brain that transmits visual data is removed, then sight ceases. How is that explained in the explanation present by Rupert Spira?

[@EricGross]

@Gil Monteverde Damage to certain areas of the brain can cause blindness. See: www.everydayhealth.com/vision-center/head-injuries.aspx

[@ksb1886]

Yes but the point being made is that experience happens within consciousness, with consciousness being primary to the sense perception. Sense perception doesnt create consciousness, rather that it's an experience that happens inside consciousness. If sense perception was primary then consciousness would be no more if we lost sight or perception. But there seems to be an experiential field that acts as the foundation for all experience. Even the idea that the brain creates it is created in consciousness. Even witnessing the brain activity too happens in this consciousness. Ideas, experiences, sense perceptions are secondary to this experiencing phenomenon

[@annab3070]

@@ksb1886 I often wonder if all the senses were to fail, there would still be that deep knowing that you exist beyond any mind construct, which is the pure consciousness the we truly are.

[@thenetchatefakatherapture7538]

@Anna B Before coming into the world you had no senses. Did you have any "deep knowing?" No, of course not! Therefore, when all our senses fail (death) there will be no deep knowing. It's elementary!

[@thenetchatefakatherapture7538]

Eric Gross This only goes to prove that consciousness needs the eyes and the brain mechanisms for vision to occur. Without the material body (matter) consciousness cannot experience the world!

[@darrenfromla]

Rupert's elegant model is just a model. He is not tapping into some magical cosmic knowledge about anything. At 6:40 he makes this point by saying that many things that humans have thought and assumed over the centuries have ended up proven to be wrong. His model is no different. He makes many claims, all of which may be wrong, or right, or somewhere in between. Nothing he says is verifiable, unless you think human experience can verify these claims beyond any doubt, which is absurd. No matter how compelling the logic, or experience is, it ultimately comes up short in proving anything. This also applies to all the comments here and my own and anything anyone says about these matters. Not knowing is where the magic is

[@ShaaaShine]

Matter is only a dream emerged by azar from the quantum void. So is a second hand product, like energy. Is not the final reallity either :)

[@ShaaaShine]

@Gil Monteverde Matter and all come from that void. Also it can create phisical particles from nowhere and have in it a lot (A LOT) of energy. Search in wikipedia or study. Matter is a gimmick. Reallity is a persistent fantasy but maybe conscience is the only real thing here. Dont be so secure about what is real and what is not. We know very very little.

[@ivogody]

To those wondering about Bernardo Kastrup i strongly recommend the following talk. I thing it summarize the most important aspects of what has been said in this video. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jJmtqWBqo5qrm6M

[@davidsweeney111]

in physics this is quantum field theory

[@kuroryudairyu4567]

In parts

[@kilifischkopp1442]

How does Matter create consciousness? I hope it doesn|t . But if it does it must be a little like an animated Movie is created from 28 pictures per second. They are so many in such a low amount of time flashing before our eyes that we have the illusion of continuity. I remember being inawe of those little stickmen that you could draw in slightly varying positions onto a little paper pad, and then flick through it to make it move... I think this is the most plausible idea.. That the sheer number neurons firing creates consciousness. But lets hope its not true . Some aspects of this theory are convincing to me, but others arent.. I think being 100 per cent sure is impossible

[@spiritusinfinitus]

Simulacron-3

[@kilifischkopp1442]

How does this relate to the idea that the universe is supposedly ''causally closed'', meaning that changes in stuff must be brought about by stuff. Although this is a theory it is a very successful (meaning predicting loads) theory. How can we get around this?

[@nicholastidemann9384]

That leads to infinite regress. Reality must necessarily cause itself, and not be caused by anything; universal free will is a fact by logical necessity.

[@jaynewoffenden7872]

Everything takes place within Consciousness, every thing is consciousness including science.. they have got it back to front.]

[@awarenesszen8321]

That's a SPECULATION! Preaching beliefs as facts is very cultish. ;)

[@mathersdavid5113]

No clear answer can currently be given as to how the physical brain elaborates consciousness. This does NOT imply that consciousness must be non-material in origin. It simply means it's a very hard question that we could be centuries away from answering. None of the non-material explanations can be considered as proven either.

[@danvinal5272]

Shouldn't we first define what we mean by consciousness? If consciousness is simply awareness, then cannot a brain or computer process a sense of awareness?

[@oneiam]

There is no "matter". Only the illusion of matter exists in the mind. The Mind being All.

[@aurelienyonrac]

6:49 people used to think "the earth is flat" That belief came from scholars studying maps. Hence "falling off the map".

[@sgc5964]

is it magic that makes water bend or in nature is water always level & flat ... I don't know ? lol :)

[@sgc5964]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/eZu2qnWGnLlkmJI

[@aurelienyonrac]

@@sgc5964 water is bent and flat as sand is. Because water is made of small molecules H2O , like graines of sand

[@sgc5964]

hello Aurélien the deeper I look into this the more weird it becomes i shall keep an open mind :)

[@aurelienyonrac]

@@sgc5964" this " are you referring to the video you posted or my comment or ripper's video? Thank you.

[@troyhayder6986]

Apparently according to scientists.. I have lots of conciousnesses in here with me and I hate them... I wish they'd get lost and never come back... My brain.. Go way...

[@SE-nv9eb]

Consciousness is the primary as it is the superset while everything else are the subset of it as none of it able to exist outside of our consciousness....

[@torstenthomasbetschart6746]

Unsubstantiated claims can be ignored. To me, it seems you created a "deepety" - a combination of an egotistical impulse to be greater than oneself and a fuzzy term.

[@fluentpiffle]

@@torstenthomasbetschart6746 Yes, I think this is Spira's problem too.. In order to set yourself up as 'the great one', you have to equally posit the idea of the 'lesser' in others.. he is therefore not giving others the credit they deserve as potential understanders themselves.. This is a fundamental error of anyone looking for 'followers' instead of just presenting unbiased information and letting the intrinsic nature of every individuals reality do the rest.. It is disingenuous to say that everything is 'consciousness'. This comes from the belief that we need some kind of 'divine intervention' in order to 'do the right thing'. A lot of people indoctrinated into any kind of 'god' idea have this extra hurdle to surmount.. We have thousands of years of empirical evidence that this is not the case, apart from the fact that our genuine method of enquiry, deduction from necessity, points to consciousness not even being a universal requirement at all.. (For example, we know only from deduction that the Sun must have existed before Humans did.) Indeed, we see no evidence for it anywhere in the rest of existence, and it may in fact also be another human-invented term for something that does not even exist, in reality.. The plausibility factor leads us to the latter conclusion. Therefore, the most plausible solution to the 'consciousness' issue, deduced from necessity, is that consciousness is simply another evolving aspect of the motions of space (energy). As, to posit anything 'else' is simply unnecessary.. "We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances." (Sir Isaac Newton, Principia: The system of the world) All false 'morality' must inevitably dissolve into hypocrisy when it is not founded on truth.. And indeed, this is exactly what has happened within current 'society'.. We 'do the right thing' only when we have genuine understanding of what the 'right thing' is.. When we are forced to take responsibility for our own actions, we do so, because any other action would be understood as one of insanity, leading to self-destruction, which it currently is, and as Nietzsche was able to intuit.. "There is nothing more necessary than truth, and in comparison with it everything else has only secondary value. This absolute will to truth: what is it? Is it the will to not allow ourselves to be deceived? Is it the will not to deceive? One does not want to be deceived, under the supposition that it is injurious, dangerous, or fatal to be deceived." (Friedrich Nietzsche, 1890) "And isn't it a bad thing to be deceived about the truth, and a good thing to know what the truth is? For I assume that by knowing the truth you mean knowing things as they really are. The philosopher is in love with truth, that is, not with the changing world of sensation, which is the object of opinion, but with the unchanging reality which is the object of knowledge. Truthfulness. He will never willingly tolerate an untruth, but will hate it as much as he loves truth. ... And is there anything more closely connected with wisdom than truth? The object of knowledge is what exists and its function to know about reality." (Plato) "The fundamental element of the cosmos is Space. Space is the all-embracing principle of higher unity. Nothing can exist without Space. .. According to ancient Indian tradition the Universe reveals itself in two fundamental properties: as Motion and as that in which motion takes place, namely Space. This Space is called Akasa .. derived from the root kas, 'to radiate, to shine', and has therefore the meaning of ether which is conceived as the medium of movement. The principle of movement, however, is Prana, the breath of life, the all-powerful, all-pervading rhythm of the universe." (Lama Anagarika Govinda, 1969) "Choose only one master, Nature." (Rembrandt) 'Consciousness' does not create anything. It is only possible to be 'conscious' of that which actually exists.. You can create any kind of delusion you like in your mind, but you cannot be 'conscious' of things that do not actually exist. Beyond 'observation' there is then the process of 'interpretation', and this is where most people fail themselves..and unconsciously produce the very evidence that 'consciousness' is not 'everywhere'.. "History abundantly shows that people's views of the universe are bound up with their views of themselves and of their society. The debate in cosmology has implications far beyond the realm of science, for it is a question of how truth is known. How these questions are answered will shape not only the history of science, but the history of humanity." (Eric Lerner, 1992)

[@christopherjohnson6106]

What a about dreams? And controlling dreams? Levels of consciousness no?

[@Frankygoestohull1]

why does our consciousness change when we mess with the brain. Shouldn't consciousness stay the same regardless of what you do with the brain? Brain damaged due to accidents or drugs etc., causes the mind to distort or become less intelligent etc. How is this explained in the consciousness is primary theory..

[@ONeA2122]

Because the brain is the mechanism for how the senses of the body can make the brain self-aware of the body, consciousness don't need a brain to exist

[@streamofperception3167]

Consciousness doesn't change, the contents of it do. Consciousness is the screen upon which your perceptions are projected. Sure, if you screw with the channels through which those perceptions are projected, what ends up on the screen will be different, but the screen itself has not changed. Is the 'you' that experiences dreaming at night different from the 'you' that experiences reality whilst awake? It is the same 'you', right? It is the same consciousness. It has not changed. It's the perceptions that are different. Our empty screen of consciousness is the only thing that doesn't change.

[@michaelmcclure3383]

Why does my radio sound fuzzy when it got damaged lol

[@learneroftruth8025]

@@michaelmcclure3383 the awareness of it still didn’t change, only the content changed.

[@michaelmcclure3383]

@@learneroftruth8025 the point being a radio is a device that receives a signal. If you alter the device it gives a distorted signal and so on. Yes, I realised consciousness was primary to experience at 5 years old, thanks.

[@haunteddeandollsuk]

maybe when brain shuts down aka dying the consciousness stops ?

[@willyouwright]

I think people want to know if there thoughts and perceptions will live on.. But what no one says is... that no, only there nothingness of consciousness will live on.. which is kinda pointless.. right?? Its like saying oh your nothing but and empty idea.. and that will last forever!! Our joy comes from living as a being..

[@agathaviana7163]

No , cause there is evolution of the consciousness and you brain filters her , to survive on earth , but when you don’t have something that filters , she is free to go wherever . For example, when you have a kid that is not conscious about death , doesn’t have fear of it , but once you have the consciousness that it might be something bad , your brain reacts in a bad way and it causes you , fear , depression, your brain changes , this shows that consciousness changes the brain , not the other way around ... that are more examples of it

[@willyouwright]

@@agathaviana7163 there is no her.. its them ,us, they ,all. Him and her are merely our duality.

[@willyouwright]

@@agathaviana7163 i get that our consciousness is partial in our current state.. would be nice if it got wider. But it may stay seperated forever..

[@gregorylent]

how does consciousness generate matter?

[@bhbae1]

Think about any matter that you had in mind. Think about your KZbin comment. It is in your mind.

[@lewisalmeida3495]

What is consciousness? The brain is an organ, it stores memory and regulates all the systems of the body, such as: blood system, electrical system, immune system, nervous system, etc., The mind in an intangible thing. The mind is an idea of the body, it is a thinking thing. Learn more, WayofSpinoza.com

[@nicholastidemann9384]

The brain is a symbolic representation within the mind of the mind itself; it is the mind which performs all the functions you mention.

[@gireeshneroth7127]

Consciousness perceptively brainbeing itself.

[@truth9042]

Brain is limited consciousness which is bound to run into troubles later in life Such as dementia, Alzheimer's, etc. Our brains and biological bodies live on borrowed timing that will eventually come to an end one day; outer consciousness on the other hand becomes our reality once we die; its starts encompassing all walks of life, so consciousness in my opinion is created outside the brain. The brain is an interface of consciousness.

[@plodojed]

Can someone explain to me how they came to the conclusion that Earth is a ball and that the Sun is 93 million miles away?

[@SidePocket008]

If there is no witness/observer does anything exist? (Energy, Matter, consciousness, Time, Space, etc, etc) The witness or observer occurs through a chemical reaction in the brain. If there is no chemical reaction there is no witness or observer or "I" or experience of being a separate independent individual person or self.

[@tuficek]

That what is changing is perception which some people change for awareness, we can call it as body consciousness, when you go sleep it change so according to this we think that is matter made, yes perception is matter made, but awareness or knowing is independent on matter, it never change. If you really look in yourself you see that there is only knowing of this and no other will can be done, the human is selfinteligent and act itself on things apeared around you by its conditioning, but you due to illusion think that you do it. This must be undertood. As Jean Klein said - If your toungue would be made of sugar, would you tase the sugar? So you always the real you must be something else to taste it. See it explore it! If you put believe on this by my text, it becomes another illusion in yourself, you must come out of experience.

[@01assassinscreed63]

Sorry your agurument is material science not actual

[@jennypatton645]

I think consciousness is a accumulation of everything you are and everthing you've experienced in life , and it's like your soul really communicating with you when you are able to connect yourself to your soul .

[@perfektpitch]

After criticizing the scientist for assuming that consciousness derives from matter, he then himself assumes how aliens would view our species. ????

[@atmannityananda-autognosia]

Why doesn't the brain create Consciousness? An obvious proof is rhe following: Because the brain is always moving and changing, whereas Consciousness is immobile and unchanging. Something that is always in motion and perpetual change cannot create something that is constantly still and without any change.

[@zookeroni1834]

?

[@ZokRs]

Okay, so what if since the big bang no form of life would have evolved. Not on this planet, not anywhere else. Basically, no conscious thing. Would that mean, the universe wouldn't exist? If we start with consciousness instead of matter, it would Imply exactly that, right? If everything out of direct experience, like matter, doesn't exist out of consciousness... then how could life even evolve in the first place. There must be something prior to consciousness to make consciousness modulate itself into something that is conscious.

[@reimavainola9034]

Link big bang theory is a materialistic theory and if we understand the conscious prior theory there is no big bang in reality! See the similarity to our last night dreams. Where did they start? They started in consciousness, not in any palce or time.

[@ZokRs]

@@reimavainola9034 yes, that is exactly the part I just can't wrap my head around. The dream can start with everything being suddenly there, in consciousness. It doesn't need to obey the laws of physics. But unlike in a dream, everything has to be able to be explained in a physical rational way, otherwise it could not exist. Why else would there be a sensible way to describe, for example, the origin of humans or our planet. In a dream, you don't need all of this, but in reality, as we can see, you do.

[@ZokRs]

@@reimavainola9034 but I guess, I really have to think about my starting point of the question "what is consciousness" again. it's just difficult when you have to turn around the most intuitive thing we have always got told upside down, and start at a totally different place, consciousness. I'm really with you on all of this. These questions only help me to get rid of these persistent old ideas, that are really, really sessiled in my mind. Or rather, in the mind of most of the people in our culture.

[@reimavainola9034]

Link You are right. The point is that it is imppossible for rational mind to start with consciousness. Rational mind is binded with time and place and also with cause and effect. However, our dreams can give us a tip or a glue that there might exist conscious worlds where nature laws are different and traditional cause and effect do not work. If you could ask your dream fellows in the next night dream how the world began (dream world), you could get a totally different cosmology or evolution theory.

[@awarenesszen8321]

@@reimavainola9034 or dreams are just generated by the brain. Both are plausible speculations. Open your mind mate ;) stop clinging to comforting speculations

[@darrenfromla]

Why would Rupert ask how consciousness is derived from matter when he also says he matter doesn't exist?

[@InspirationParadise]

I suggest that his use of the word matter is a concession, used in the same way that parents will talk about their kid’s imaginary friend with their kid

[@darrenfromla]

@@InspirationParadise But maybe matter exists and isn't imaginary

[@InspirationParadise]

@@darrenfromla yep, I’m stumped by this reply! Even though the first-person human experience will always be “The nature of awareness is, in my experience, is boundless, and I am aware of all experience”, it doesn’t mean that awareness can’t be created in the brain…..

[@wakeupandflow]

“You are nothing but a pack of neurons.” - Francis Crick

[@aloksharma5085]

What about bacterial??? Small ants.... does consciousness predates that too

[@landofw56]

No.

[@Apollyon-sz9sn]

You have an anesthesia you lose concioussness, you get an impact on the head you lose concioussness, of course concioussness arises from the brain!

[@agathaviana7163]

Incorrect , you have an anesthesia and your brains loses consciousness , but consciousness doesn’t lose itself , she is still there , she is not produced by the brain ... she is filtered by the brain ,brains evolved to make your organism work , works in favor to it , anesthesia is a drug , that interferes on the brains system and restricts your conscious , but once the affect is over your consciousness returns , also when you get a impact in your head you don’t lose consciousness, your in conscious for a moment , but once your good your conscious returns , if she is in the brain , how can a person never be born with no conscious, she might have different perceptions of the world because of her brain , but she is still conscious

[@powerofone1645]

6:45 I like Rupert but I am an out and proud flat Earther. :) (see Eric Dubay's youtube site for more info.)

[@lovaticdreamer14]

I really hope that's a joke lmao

[@aphysique]

@@lovaticdreamer14 Eric Dubay is in fact a joke, should never be spoken about around these intelligent interviews!

[@Frankygoestohull1]

How does Christian Science relate to all of this? My mom was healed of cancer twenty years ago with help from a CS Practitioner. Her doctor calls her the miracle lady...……….

[@EleseCoit]

Both point to the same Truth. I was raised CS but I can only speculate that a Christian Scientist might say that healing is the evidence of alignment with that Truth. The core teaching in CS is the unreality of matter as Source.

[@onedog9652]

It does not. The miracle is the natural work of reality. The universe excretes consciousness. Therefore you exist.

[@momsazombie1]

An idea: Consciousness is a modulation of 'matter' (some medium that can support/carry modulation, like the air carries sound or the electromagnetic field carries radiowaves). The modulation cannot know the medium, as it occurs in an abstracted order of information (the modulation). Feedback is key but I'm too tired right now to work out an acceptable idea of how.

[@justuslorenz297]

i once red .. consciousness is a quantity with structure,. it just happend through causality

[@lordaiesan5050]

Be sure that it is a quality. Just like a feeling. And it's most important sign is your ability to be aware Ov your self and the world around. Also some calls it to be alive and to be alive is to "percept" and "concieve"

[@lordaiesan5050]

@Gil Monteverde the source Ov Consciousness is unknownable to human. I agree.

[@lordaiesan5050]

@@lepomirbakic4422 to seen is not a valid point, do you see the frequency and Vibration ov sounds in the air? The visible spectrum Ov light for the regular man to seen is 0.0015 percent.

[@lordaiesan5050]

@Gil Monteverde it's the subjective point and it's concepts that our perception turns into sensitive solid objects

[@lepomirbakic4422]

@Gil Monteverde consciousness have no function other than to be aware of things

[@torstenthomasbetschart6746]

To me, it seems there is a point that is also not honestly addressed by Rupert Spira. Talking about consciousness in this way presumes that it exists in a certain realm, form or shape (and, in this definition often used, preceeds everything). In this way: what if everything we experience, see, feel, think about, do etc. is not some magic external property (which always seems to be an underlying thing when talking about consciousness) is just a mode of functioning of the brain? The mind-matter problem is just a problem if the definitions and conceptions about the contents of these terms are exclusive, or that the "mind" exist in contrast to "not mind". So, to shift the reference point slightly: there is a lot of evidence that a mind exists within a body. There is absolutely no evidence that a mind exists outside a body other then empty speculative metaphysical notions about epistemologically unattainable assets.

[@samriviera6299]

I still think that the brain causes consciousness. But what we call matter is in my opinion an incomplete model. There's definitely more to "matter" than atoms (or quarks...). The questioner understands what Rupert is saying, but he is not convinced that consciousness is eternal or infinite. I have a similar opinion. What we call physical world or matter are the contents of consciousness. When we lose our awareness/consciousness the contents disappear. What's the difference then between an eternal consciousness without content and death (as in the loss of consciousness)? When there is nothing to be aware of, how can there still be awareness?

[@awarenesszen8321]

Excellent question. Shame you won't get an answer from non duality preachers, just a load of abstract word salad to confuse you. Rupert keeps claiming awareness exists in deep sleep, but is unable to verify this. Seems to be interrupted but appears continues from the moment you fall asleep to when u awake.

[@jennypatton645]

It's a vehicle to generate the consciousness.

[@theequatableskeptic8148]

If consciousness is the primary factor then it's done a piss poor job of making us