Does Fire Emblem Need Avatars? - Fire Emblem February 2019 - Tall Fox

[@FinalInsanity]

You pretty much nailed the big problem with FE avatars - they're more characters that you can decide the name and appearance of than true player representations. They have pretty set personalities, backstories, and motivations. It's like saying Ramza in FFT is an avatar because you can name him and change his birthday, it's not enough to really make them a "player avatar". It's cool to see a take on avatars that doesn't just mindlessly shit on any one or all of them, too. I don't hate Corrin like I know many others do, but they're still the avatar I like least, and I thought the point with Corrin facing adversity from the opposite family was interesting. (Kris is still the best avatar in terms of customization options)

[@sasakithesolemnone8108]

I like the generics of FFT much more than avatars of FE. You can make all best builds you want without worrying about whether your moral choices matter or not. It's much better that way considering the story & setting of the game. It's like you are just one of the numerous nameless soldiers who were left without purpose in the middle of a civil war. Of course, later on many plot-relevant characters join the party like Mustadio & Agrias. And they wreck house with their unique abilities, especially the fabled Thunder God Cid who has an entire theme song named after him. (Kneel before his power and honor. He's so OP the rest of the game apparently becomes easy.) But the generics seem to hold out pretty well. I've made builds like a Samurai with 185 Physical Evasion and a Monk with Speed Save + Attack UP + Move HP Up. It's quite enjoyable, actually.

[@TheAndyAwesome]

Avatars are fine unless they're Corrin

[@FireEmblemTheRedTower]

You said it, ツ. Avatars are fine unless they're Female Corrin.

[@major_havok7854]

Fire emblem games are fine unless they’re fates or shadow dragon on the DS

[@naheemquattlebaum2267]

Mark is the best Avatar because you was just a strategist who guided the other characters in battle. You wasn't a chosen one or anti-christ, just someone who helped the army win battles.

[@megarotom1590]

I think it would be cool if they took an approach of a war going on, because of a clash of ideals, but instead of choosing which side to choose, you instead change the tides of war through in battle choices, say the victory condition is capture either point, or rout either enemy, or defeat either boss, or defeat 20 enemies of either faction. The one you do changes your place in the war and effects the tides of war, and the eventual ending perhaps even. Though by the end of the chapter the war needs to have 3 endings: army A won, army B won, or the war ended without a clear victor, of course I think perhaps part 1 could be choosing a side through these choices and be very dynamic, perhaps the first 2 chapters could be obligatory bandits, and then have 7 or so chapters and then by that point if you had an endgame based on your choices (5 battles where you chose for Team A for Endgame A, and vice versa B, and Endgame C otherwise), then part 2 would be finishing the war or if you finish part 1 with the Neutral Endgame, you end the war by both factions wanting you to get out of their way, part 3 would bring on a new threat that was caused by the war with multiple out of battle choices that actually effected things. Then finally part 4 starts off with one major decision in the first chapter that effect the rest of it, perhaps even endgame. Alternatively have a reputation that is effected by a variety of things but change the game quite a bit (for instance being more ruthless can potentially prevent you from getting some recruits from the enemies side)

[@EnderWarlock]

You took the words straight from my mouth, couldn't sum it up better.

[@Castersvarog]

Every avatar has a positive and a negative with them it seems. Kris is to much of a Sue, taking away the actions of certain characters onto themselves. But features great customization and isn’t as restrictive when it comes to class like Robin and especially Corrin. Robin is great in terms of story presence up until the third arc where they become the main character instead of Chrom. Corrin has too much story presence and like Robin are a little bit to much of their own character. They also really, really want you to remain a Lord instead of a different class which sort of ruins he point of an avatar. If I were to do an avatar I’d allow them to start in any class except special ones like Lords and Manakates. They would have arc 1 Robin presence, not being a main character but someone you know is there. I’d also like a sort of choose what to say but that might be a little difficult to write around.

[@MineNAdventurer]

Also Corrin is just as bland as stale bread

[@absoul112]

I think if they have to continue using avatars in FE, then you're right on the money. It would be so cool if decisions could be made that affect who you can or can't support or recruit.

[@aiakumu3579]

Avatars should be very similar to Dragon Age Origins-Awakening, giving us choices, not only to the Avatars background but how they affect the world.

[@infjelphabasupporter8416]

I liked Byleth. Found her relatable.

[@Marco-uk7be]

Kris: meh Robin: Pretty decent. So far on a decent path right? Corrin: *OH GOD PLEASE NO*

[@ChillstoneBlakeBlast]

I think Byleth will be another robin

[@Marco-uk7be]

Blake Blast here’s to hoping

[@nachohangover5104]

I think avatars if we're going to have them, should act like Robin did for most of Awakening, a suppkrting character to the main character. You can build on their personality and relationships and have them play a role, but the main focus should be on the main protagonist. Also, they shouldn't be absurdly broken like all the ones we've had so far.

[@MrCrono2]

Personally, I found Awakening’s approach was the best. Never cared to much for Fates. I wish they weren’t forced now, but Shadows of Valentia showed me that I like my FE plots more character driven. Awesome video though dude.

[@SenecaGray]

Thank you TallFox-Sensei.

[@Choops6969]

is it fire emblem february already?

[@lunatic0verlord10]

What do you think about Byleth? The Direct that came out not long after your video basically confirmed that Byleth is yet another Avatar (and one with what is implied to be very limited customization, at that).

[@KratosAurion7777]

Glad that you mentionned Fire emblem 12 being the first one with an avatar ... because most people think it started with Awakening . Does Fire emblem NEED avatars ? No . CAN they have an avatar ? Sure , there is no demerit if you craft your story around it ! . I think they should continue with avatars , i like what they provide gameplay wise , problem is that they are too overpowered , Especially Robin ( who is the only unit you will use in the 2 last difficulty settings starting chapter 6 ) .

[@definitelynotshanque]

Great video, I really liked it as a Fire Emblem fanatic but the summary section was so long, I don't think people that dont LOVE Fire Emblem would sit through it without getting board and the ones that do don't really need the background. Idk, just some constructive criticism.

[@tallfox5751]

Useful feedback, thanks!

[@kaitoshion1133]

Personally, I enjoy avatars; You get the opportunity to interact with your surroundings in the game and build up side stories of your enjoyment (in other words . . . Fans writing fan fictions). Not sure how others feel about avatars (generally they hate them with passion, specifically MALE Corrin, female Corrin gets nice treatment because she is a female and apparently it is braver than his male version . . . THEY ARE THE SAME PERSON), but I do enjoy games that allow me to explore and interact with others (NPC or an actual human as long as I can interact with them I'm fine), in a way it gives the vibes that your choices do matter (although Fates didn't do much heh heh . . . ha . . . right) and the fact the story surrounds you and your guild/party influences you in a way to care about them (or at least that is how I felt with Awakening, Fates did as well but only in a few occasions). Awakening: I did enjoy Robin although he was a side character/co-star of the story until the whole Grima came again later in the story; Calm, intelligent/tactician, sassy when time calls, likable and charming (yes both genders) Fates: . . . No comments: Semi-hippie with the whole "make peace and not war" subject, questionable/very hesitant, a bit childish (he/she was kidnap and lived his/her whole life in a castle without permission to go out, I get it but don't make it too obvious as well), and . . . kind of good looking? (Not sure, F. Corrin's fans will be here any second to defend her princess and forget about the other guy) I don't hate Fates, I kind of enjoyed the game but there was so much potential wasted and there were many things that could be changed to become a better game than the previous title that saved the franchise; Story line from both Conquest and Birthright (just play Revelations, oh right it's a separate path we need to buy . . . why Nintendo? This is not Pokemon), character development (Corrin), etc. Look, I'am bias to Awakening since it is the game that lock me again to Fire Emblem since I gave up on the DS remake of the first game (played both the original Fire Emblem and the DS remake . . . not very good until Brawl introduced Ike to me and gave me something to look forward to the franchise of Fire Emblem; Brawl and Awakening were the games that made up my mind to care and give another try to Fire Emblem, no regrets so far), plus I did enjoy the story of time travel, a impostor/copy of me doing the opposite (Grima+Validar messing with Robin's head), the fact there were a few chapters/missions related to rescue someone (damsel in distress type of missions, hey sometimes I do enjoy saving a princess . . . also a Mario bias), and many other things.

[@marylovesdavidcook]

I rather the stories not have them. I personally find that having an avatar creates a power fantasy for the player, and generally has a weaker narrative as a result. I don't believe any avatar has been written well. The best was probably Kris and honestly, he was mediocre at best. I understand people (especially newer fans) may crave and enjoy said power fantasy, but honestly I find the narrative suffers for it and avatars should be used as a generic side character with almost no plot importance. Just use it to create a sense of a window to the world, not this power complex that plagues Robin (mostly in the third arc), and especially Corrin.

[@Heyamoto]

Totally agree, you’ve explained it so well. Whenever I revisit the Tellius series, its such a breath of fresh air not having an avatar. Instead you have a bunch of well-written characters in a terrific storyline

[@chokondese8184]

Fuck you I want avatar

[@rockyguyman1206]

We all know Mark is the best avatar. He literally has no story presence making him good. And at the end of the game in the epilogue if you did worse enough you are actually given a negative title

[@ZuoKalp]

Mark's only purpose is to make Lin repeat what other NPCs said to her and when new NPCs ask you to join the army. He is practically invisible to the rest of the characters the rest of the time.

[@FuriousHaunter]

Actually mark does have an appearance scince bramimond reflects your appearance when you look at them.

[@blairintheusa6613]

If I kill someone who is married I want the now widowed partner to hate me and locking the relationship away and get a negative boost if next to each other.

[@robertwatts7894]

That would be so cool shit.

[@marylovesdavidcook]

Despite my anti avatar stance, I love this idea.

[@Kakashi10ist]

The video was good in general, half way lost momentum. And yes we need an avatar

[@DarthWillSmith]

I would be fine if we got a player character that WASN'T an avatar. Arguably most of the lords in the series already qualify as this, ESPECIALLY Alm and Celica since you directly control them in many parts. Take Byleth in FE3H. I would be totally fine if you played as him, but could not customize him.

[@robertwatts7894]

What?

[@robertwatts7894]

How is Alm or Celica a avatar?

[@DarthWillSmith]

They aren't, I didn't say that they were. I'm talking about Non-avatar player characters.

[@shadedhydra6674]

So firstly I never name the Avatar after me, it just doesn't appeal and so I see the Avatar as their own character. I'm my opinion I'm fine with an Avatar, as long as they affect the games story only slightly, I'm hoping that if that Byleth guy in Three houses if they're the Avatar they will be more like Mark and Robin and less like Corrin. As characters the only Avatar I dislike is Kris simply because Kris is the worst way of doing wish fulfilment, the fact that they steal other characters achievements annoys me more than a story being designed for them. Mark is actually my next least favourite Avatar but thats only because they have little property. Corrin is next and honestly I like them... in supports, they actually do a great job of showing the audience each characters personality, and that actually extends to Warriors as long as Corrin isn't the main character I like them, in Fates. Oh boy they're... ok for the terrible story in Birthright and Revelation but infuriate me in Conquest. Robin is almost perfect, my main problem is that they kinda steal the end of Awakening away from Chrom.

[@HTakara82]

I have to disagree about Kaga games characters, after you recruit them, they no longer "exist", only the main character(s) have generic developments.

[@MonadoBoy42]

My least favourite thing about Fire Emblem avatars is the lack of a customisable skin tone. I remember when I lent my copy of awakening to a friend and they were like, 'Why can't I make him look like me?' It's just so awkward. And I know you have to see the mark on the back of robin's hand (and the lack of it) in two cutscenes but come on... It's especially annoying since Awakening and Fates have characters with a darker skin tone (Aversa, Falvia, Basilio, Rinkah) and their sprites and models update to reflect this, even if they change class. Which means alternate skin tones are programmed into the game! They're just not used for the avatars. Why? And while the Heroes avatar cannot be customised, we can clearly see they are white. It's ridiculous that this problem exists for a game series all about uniting people and understanding one another.

[@kqlin34]

Maybe we'll get a good avatar in Three Houses. IF IT EVER COMES OUT.

[@micahfrank1881]

Imo, no. Avatars in RPGs such as fire emblem are usually poorly done. They're a blank slate and must accommodate to everyone that wants their character to act certain ways. To implement all the emotions that someone would want in an avatar (kind of like InFamos and MassEffect) would take away from the main story (which is something IS is struggling with already) and just make it into a Karma Simulator. If handled well it could be good as a side thing but IS is already falling off with poor map design and poor story direction. I think that they need to fix that before adding in Avatars and a possible Karma system.

[@OneStarProductionsStudio]

16:57 >YES

[@generellis3]

One other thing fates did right surrounding the avatar is allowing your supports to matter. Aka Kaze can die if you don’t have high enough support by some point in the story. I was playing organically and was completely caught off guard. Did it piss me off yes. But did it make it a more genuine “avatar/role-playing” experience? Absolutely. I literally didn’t appreciate a character until they were gone

[@gratedshtick]

25:50 4 would be too low of an estimate

[@PhantomBlackStar]

I think Fire Emblem Three Houses done it better, wish it had character creator. Anyway , Three Houses has 4 Stories. 1 focuses on the Prof, and 1 for Edelgard, Dimitri and Claude. Catering for those who like/hate Avatar characters/ Lords. Atleast my opinion on it.

[@SASLEAD666]

Seriously I wouldnt even play fe if there were no avatars. In real life no one I knew was interested in fe until awakening came out. When I tell people about the avatar and marriage mechanic they are almost immediately into it.

[@neog8029]

Clearly, the best avatar was Mark.

[@balaceanubogdan2231]

Yey Fire Emblem February is back! Just in time for me cause I started replaying Path of Radiance. IMHO avatars did not bring anything good in fire emblem, well maybe except the tactician class. Well actually not even that, the tacticians are too powerful fighters for a class that should stay away and just decide the flow of the battle. Anyway, back to avatars, they are boring as characters, everyone likes them for no apparent reason and in the case of Fates it took away a lot from a good story( for me it was the most boring fire emblem). In the modern Fire emblem the general consensus is that the characters are better developed because of better support system. That is true but somehow I rarely found characters that I like as much as I used too. And most of the support is just boring bantering between them, it has no connection with what is happening in the world at the time, it's like they live in a separate universe. It's like a dating Sim in parallel with fire emblem game. The dating sim part of fire emblem attracted a new crowd which is good, but it destroyed the children mechanic that was perfectly implemented all the way in fire emblem 4 (holy blood was good). The dating sim should be more focused and much better written, maybe each women have 2-3 interest, some of them be already married, etc. Also bring back the gifts in some of the supports. Also for me the re classing option seems to take a bit away from the personality of a character, I would prefer a better branching system when promoting. I mean how does someone who is skilled in dark magic re-class in a sniper (efficient killing machine with bows). Anyway I would like to propose two subject for future videos: Dating sim VS children mechanic; Re-classing.

[@greenherring1057]

I'm 50/50 on avatars I don't hate them but I don't like them either.

[@maramba32]

Avatars like robin and kris yea. Corrin is questionable but I dont have a hate boner for fates anyways. Three houses will already have a avatar so expect that

[@FireEmblemTheRedTower]

Tall Fox, here is my answer. If future avatars are like the Chrobin!Female Robin and Cormilla!Male Corrin, then YES, Fire Emblem needs MOAR of them! BUT if the future avatars are like Male Robin and Female Corrin, then NO, Fire Emblem DOESN'T need more of them.

[@jdgjordan]

There's no difference between genders tho female corrin does look better designed then male

[@FireEmblemTheRedTower]

@@jdgjordan Why for the appearance?

[@jdgjordan]

@@FireEmblemTheRedTower I cant quit place it but i just think the costume fits better on a female model and her default hair design is better looking then the messy males version.

[@FireEmblemTheRedTower]

@@jdgjordan I see, thanks for letting me know. I honestly think that Female Corrin looks unnatural. Also, her outfit is much too degrading, especially where her legs are at.

[@imperatordrakon6488]

Avatars are fine as long they're just here as supporting characters and not shown the best thing since sliced bread.

[@imperiodasgalaxias9064]

So, the "avatars" in Fire Emblem are more like OC than Avatars.

[@rodolfovalenzuela9368]

I've never felt represented by the avatars, I prefer to think of them as marysue characters with some redeemable qualities, maybe if the level of important choices and better developement increases I would care. About Chris I really like how it was incorporated in the story as the shadow of Marth, with their own little sub-plot with the assesins, the problem with their interactions could have been solved if they were less, more choice based and maybe only the less developed characters, some like Merric, Linde and Caeda are already important in the plot and their interactions with Marth, the avatar being a common soldier could cover the interactions with the lesser important characters, like being the channel between the commoners and the protag

[@Heccct]

I don't like avatars in Fire Emblem. The games function fine without them, and that's all I've got to say on the matter.

[@ChillstoneBlakeBlast]

I feel like they do but never be The plot point. Robin was fine. Kris war kinda annoying on how he hijacked the plot and Corrin is awful

[@willjust7099]

I would say no. They don't really help the story. Like would you say the best fire emblem games are the ones with avatars. Probably not

[@paulman34340]

Yeah that's the issue with the Avatars in the series, the ONLY Avatar who WAS an Avatar was fucking MARC! Frankly speaking EVERY Lord in Fire Emblem is an Avatar of the player, and essentially Robin can't even be SEEN as an Avatar, the only reason AVATAR worked for them was because of the fact they ARE an Avatar....but for GRIMA not the player! Corrin can't be an Avatar because they have their own past history and life before the game began, the only thing you affect is gameplay stuff and choices in the story as in CHAPTER 6 route split choice! But that's it! Corrin is made TERRIBLE by the need to obsess over the Avatar tag when it wasn't needed! Byleth got it WORSE because they made them SILENT, and then SHEZ in Three Hopes showed that making them SILENT was a STUPID idea, especially as their character in Engage AND three Hopes is EXACTLY what one expected from the bread crumps shown in Three Houses (all the TOLD to us about Byleth instead of SHOWN to us, which Byleth CAN'T because their a SILENT PROTAGONIST FOR SOME REASON!). Alear took the CAKE because I saw NO reason to bloat out their name Alear! Frankly I HATED all the Ashen Demon, Divine One, Professor shit because it was used in place of not saying the character's ACTUAL NAME! And that kept getting STUPIDER among the OTHER gripes with Engage's story specific! I want Fire Emblem to stop using Avatars PERIOD! Even Kris wasn't an Avatar as they have a history already TOO! It's okay to let us CUSTOMIZE their looks as we please, but Corrin was the LAST Avatar the player could customize, in the end all you can do with Byleth and Alear is effect their GENDER and Birthday! But after Echoes, I LUST for a Fire Emblem with a PROPER LORD and no "ARE YOU A BOY or ARE YOU A GIRL" choices! FUCKING COMMIT! Frankly I know an AVATAR per say WILL exist in the SPIRIT of things because Marc and the whole Reincarnating was started with LYN in Awakening sensing Robin was Marc reincarnated, and they kept PUSHING all Avatars in the series as reincarnations of Marc (funny I think they SKIPPED Byleth and Shez cause they can't BOTH be reincarnations, and Sothis is Byleth's reincarnation!) But trying to make them WORK won't work like they want! At least make the "name" a NICKNAME and have them follow a SET name! SMT 4 Final/Apocalypse let you NAME the MC, but gave them the default name NANASHI for the sake of the VA! So maybe it's time to do that as well! Frankly I know some will say FE4 might get an Avatar! But the closet I can see an AVATAR is them being like FINN, likely a KID so they can be the same age as Oifey and Shannan and be like the REBORN of Sigurd, Quan and Eldigan....even though we have that in Part 2 with Seliph, Leif and Ares, hey they can be the THIRD Generation of the THREE TRIO! I mean look at Part 2 opener, it's established Oifey and Shanna essentially became BADASSES that even the bad guys view them as MORE IMPORTANT then Seliph! Largely because it took attention OFF abit on Seliph so he can prepare to WRECK the empire's SHIT! But fuck it let me stop here! If you're keeping the Avatar's, LET US CUSTOMIZE THEIR LOOKS DAMN IT! At best they need to go back to how Robin and KRIS were and NOT be the main lord of the game, and they HAVE to not overshadow the Lord cause we don't need another CHROM with how LUCINA AND ROBIN are more remembered then the poor guy who actually is an interesting Lord! He's a Sigurd who learned his lesson SOONER and SURVIVES his intended Death! Frankly we have a ROBIN/KRIS who DOESN'T overshadow the Lord of their game! THEIR CALLED BYLETH/THE PROFESSOR and frankly SHEZ in Three Hopes! Both are given EQUAL importance as the Lord you select. NO ONE is forgetting Edelgard, NO ONE is forgetting Dimitri, and no one is ESPECIALLY forgetting MOTHERFUCKING CLAUDE VON RIEGAN either! Silver Snow is DISLIKED largely because next to COPYING badly Claude's route, it's story is pretty BAD and frankly Byleth can't have their own route do to not having a CHARACTER because they made them SILENT for some reason! But I DID get to see HOW it would have worked in Engage where if you UNLOCK the Three Lords Emblem Bracelet AFTER getting Byleth, you'll see a cutscene of them all talking and well it makes me CRY on how we MISSED THIS in Three Houses because of the Silent Protagonist idioicy of 3 Houses!

[@daddyrobin4628]

Yuzz mommy

[@willjust7099]

Mark>Kris>robin>corrin

[@giridharanp2705]

I can see Mark, but Kris.... really? Don't mind me just saying my opinion and you have all the rights to have your opinion. But Kris is literally an emotionless preacher of marth. Whereas Robin has their own interests, identity and flaws and most importantly, a charismatic, stoic, friendly and eccentric personality ( esp. F robin)

[@-lord1754]

No

[@Mario87456]

Fire Emblem Awakening should have failed because if it had we wouldn’t have had too many Fire Emblem characters in Smash. Also it was pretty terrible that Intelligent Systems started pandering to SJWs with this gay stuff simple as that.

[@summermermaidstar756]

Rhajat is not a good waifu

[@giridharanp2705]

Words were never so true..

[@robertwatts7894]

Quick answer: No and are better off without them.

[@johnathanera5863]

Wrong

[@lordtullus9942]

No.