Does Freedom Exist in an AI-Controlled Paradise? | Bringer of Light by Frank W. Janus

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#bookreview #authortube #BringerOfLight

[@iisbobby3523]

On one hand I want to chime in, but Ian is cooking. (Sips coffee) also Monty's art is immaculate.

[@johnmorey720]

Monty’s art is so awesome! I love your characters and can’t wait for Bodymore Zero!

[@feckoffthePRvillain]

@16:08 The end goal is what consumerism always devolves into: sacrificing the artistry and wonder of something for convenience of product availability. Literally making product that is to be consumed then discarded. Then we wait for the next product to consume. AI is just another step towards the final human goal of comfort and convenience. For reference, see the movie Wall-e to see a sneak peek of where that'll get us. 😬

[@bananas999]

This book sounds excruciating

[@spookyfirst9514]

2:00:05 So he sits on his throne after swimming with sea wolves and congratulates himself? He's not free at all, he's a prisoner of his own need to manipulate and control everything around him. That is the epitome of insecurity: he can't be 'free' unless he all 'powerful'. Overall: I may go back and rewatch Efi Loves Books review, then make up my mind if I want to slog through over 600 pages of this. Love the images of KC and Ralph! Seeing them together highlights how different they are as brothers, and still gives us ideas on what they're like.

[@KirkpattieCake]

If you do end up reading it, I look forward to your thoughts! I very much think it's a book people will get different things out of based on what they pay attention to just by the sheer amount of things going on in it. You're bound to connect more with some things over others. And thank you! Monty did such an amazing job bringing their appearances to life.

[@marocat4749]

The point of crime and punishment is that despite the justification it very much still catches up. Because it could still not be justified and it still caught up. oh god how can that butcher existencialism so much :(

[@spookyfirst9514]

Jules Vern viewed 'romance' as pure adventure, where scientific discoveries and geographic expanses were more important than sex. In his books, women were either rescued or married, if they were involved at all. I found an article about a biography done on his life here: www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1997-01-05-bk-15527-story.html The article makes me curious if this book tried to emulate his work for modern technology and ended up face planting instead.

[@marocat4749]

He also, if he tried to dr morau , em mad scientists arent god in that stories bur warning examples. Also i think that poerson didntget existencialism and that , like we are doomed to choose our own meening but are free to do so

[@genmeh3637]

This review reminds me alot of the book Titan: A Novel by Mado Nozaki I haven't seen many reviews but it is a translated book so probably would find some in the native language. But what's interesting is when you said you haven't seen many people go into what humans would do after AI automates everything I think that book goes into it pretty well since it is set in a world after being dominated by AI. (I am curious who else knows this book because the main thing that pops up when I try to find others' reactions is a book about Rockfeller)

[@genmeh3637]

However, I find most portrayals of AI are kind of limited in that they stick to similar themes and so books like Bringers of Light seem to just putting a new paint coat on a story that's a bit rung out when it comes to the central AI. I find most them thrive on the other focuses of the story such as the characters, politics, settings rather then the actual AI which does slightly disappoint me since AI is such a cool topic to focus on it's a Frankensteins monster made of code and human beliefs and our focus on it ruling the world is strange. Or maybe I haven't read enough books with AI.

[@spookyfirst9514]

29:43 I'm having flashbacks to Speech Class in High School, where the arguments turned into so much straw I swear I could hear Christopher Lee chanting in the hallway. (Wicker Man reference.)

[@ged-4138]

You can really tell the author wanted to write a philosophy study, but he wasn't good enough at philosophy (because he just rehashes arguments and presents no conclusions), so he just wrote a novel. Either that or he's tryna sound all smart and shit by throwing those absolutely unsolicited philosophical rants that will go over 90% of the readers' heads. I had this friend once, who was studying political science, and every time we talked, he would just do a sharp drift turn into the topic he just learned at his seminars and started to load it off unto everyone. Like without any lube, he would just pull out his Marcuses and his Mearsheimers and would just go for it. It's as if he wanted to gain self-respect that way maybe.

[@marocat4749]

Also he gets things pretty wrong, like crime and punishment, does make the point that even in that justified example to himself, it catches up. Mad scientists playing god usually are in the wrong, And existencialism is about , yeah there is no inherent meaning but its on us to for better and worse find meaning, however we want. And He didnt get , any of that? And probably worships ayn rand?

[@spookyfirst9514]

636 pages???? (Just looked at it on amazon.) The price point for a Kindle version is reasonable. From the sample, he is trying to emulate a Jules Vernian story.

[@KirkpattieCake]

Yeah, I'm not familiar with Jule Vernen's work, but I do think if someone is a fan of the old fashioned scifi books, they will enjoy this book.

[@spookyfirst9514]

@@KirkpattieCake when I was a kid, I could never get a single copy of his work. It was always checked out. I did watch a few movies made based on his books and they were fun. My favorite was 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, and Journey to the Center of the Earth.

[@feckoffthePRvillain]

Jules Verne. Lol I love all the different spellings tho so I'll do one: Julius Vernonson 🤪

[@spookyfirst9514]

@@feckoffthePRvillain 🤣🤣🤣

[@KirkpattieCake]

Jules Vernonimo >u>

[@TheHaggisInquisition]

This one sounds like someone wanted to make a book on philosophy and tried to challenge why we have social norms, but wasn't able to tie up his points or come to some form of conclusion. I think Mo's character on AI is a good example, though my personal conclusion would be a world of hyper consumerism, where everything is to be consumed and discarded for the next thing, and where things are rarely made 'just for me/us'.

[@spookyfirst9514]

1:05:24 At this point, it sounds like the 'Bringer of Light' is a reference to Lucifer: Chaos for its own sake. Thoughts?

[@KirkpattieCake]

I think that's def an interesting way to look at it and think about it/Raban.

[@spookyfirst9514]

@@KirkpattieCake the book is all over the place. It's like an odd mishmash of classic Jules Verne, HG Wells Time Machine, Logan's Run, The Matrix, even the tv series Lost, with Plato's Cave thrown in. I agree with you that it would have been better broken up into smaller stories. I don't know why so many are making these door stop massive tomes. Not everyone can be a Dan Simmons, and even he broke up his epic sci fi work Hyperion into more than one book.

[@KirkpattieCake]

I was talking to someone else about it and he also mentioned how the futuristic part sounded a bit like Brave New World with a mixture of Time Machine since Time Machine had the 'satiated population' being fed to some monster, if I remember what he said correctly. If that was a different show, then I apologize. But I know Brave New World also had the utopia, everyone belongs to everyone mindset.

[@spookyfirst9514]

@@KirkpattieCake right. The Eloi were being fed to the underground Morlocks. But what you've described is closer to Brave New World/Logan's Run. Though in Logan's Run, the population wasn't allowed to live pass the age of 30. The movie made out of Brave New World is better than the book, imo. (I was shocked at how bad the writing was.) Humph. It's not expensive. I find it interesting that the mouse experiment was used to begin this book. That experiment didn't conclude that mice needed predators or suffering. It didn't draw definite conclusions, and is still discussed. Article here: www.iflscience.com/universe-25-the-mouse-utopia-experiment-that-turned-into-an-apocalypse-60407 From the above article: "However, in recent times, people have questioned whether the experiment could really be applied so simply to humans - and whether it really showed what we believed it did in the first place. The end of the mouse utopia could have arisen "not from density, but from excessive social interaction," medical historian Edmund Ramsden said in 2008. “Not all of Calhoun’s rats had gone berserk. Those who managed to control space led relatively normal lives.” As well as this, the experiment design has been criticized for creating not an overpopulation problem, but rather a scenario where the more aggressive mice were able to control the territory and isolate everyone else. Much like with food production in the real world, it's possible that the problem wasn't of adequate resources, but how those resources are controlled."

[@KirkpattieCake]

Yeah, it was the mouse uptopia opening, some of the conversations between Moe and Raban, some of the things Raban said, and then the actual utopia in this book that felt like they didn't really connect. To me, I think what would've worked well is keeping Raban as your "God" character in here, and doing separate books that have him trying to manipulate society in different ways, and you can see him trying to program people, even using Moe's efforts in one, and the time period with Lotte, and just having a series of these books that start with the idea of creating any/all of these utopias with Raban at the helm and watching how they go. It feels like this book tried to combine a bunch of them, but more the philosophy behind them, rather than action --> effect, which is where the idea of programming or training or experimentations to change behavior fall flat for me.

[@AllisonMiller30]

I might add to this as I watch, but my first thought is the cover doesn’t match what the story is about. To me, anyway. When you say Rabin, I think of East Coast girls with the accent on the word Robin.