Does It Matter Which Flour You Preferment? What is the Difference?

This is a question that I have thought about in the past and a few of you have asked me about it in the comments section too. Eventually I will make a video answering every single question because that is what I’m here for. More often than not recipes using preferments are made with a couple or even more types of flour. The preferment alone brings great flavour to the final product but adding a mix of flours in the dough can result in an even more complex flavour profile.
We all know how much more flavourful whole wheat or rye breads are opposed to plain white bread. Each to their own of course, but the fact is that whole grains pack a punch when it comes to taste. Plain white bread can also taste amazing if handled and fermented correctly of course. It is both the fermentation and the type of flour used that affect the final taste.
📖 Read more ➡️ www.chainbaker.com/which-flou...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
🌾 If you would like to support my work click here ⤵️
www.ko-fi.com/chainbaker
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
🔪 Find all the things I use here ⤵️
🇺🇸 www.amazon.com/shop/ChainBaker
🇬🇧 www.amazon.co.uk/shop/ChainBaker
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
🥨 To learn more about bread making click here ⤵️
Principles of Baking bit.ly/principles-of-baking
The Steps of Baking bit.ly/steps-of-baking
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
🍞 Share your bread pictures here ⤵️
www.flickr.com/groups/chainba...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#Bread #Baking #ChainBaker

[@ChainBaker]

📖 Read more in the link below the video ⤴ 🌾 If you would like to support my work click here ⤵ www.ko-fi.com/chainbaker 🔪 Find all the things I use here ⤵ 🇺🇸 www.amazon.com/shop/ChainBaker 🇬🇧 www.amazon.co.uk/shop/ChainBaker 🍞 Share your bread pictures here ⤵ www.flickr.com/groups/chainbaker/

[@fletchoid]

I love the fact that you do experiments with proper controls to determine if a technique actually makes a difference.

[@soconn14]

I've actually been doing a version of this experiment for months now! I like to make my standard loaves with 15% whole wheat flour and 85% white bread flour. Normally my preferment is at the same ration 80g of white flour, 15g of whole wheat, 68g of water, and a pinch of yeast. A handful of times, I've forgotten to add the whole wheat flour to the preferment and just used 100g white bread flour, and most recently, after seeing your community post about this videos, I tried doing it with all of the whole wheat flour (60g whole wheat, 40g white). My results were about the same as yours. The mixed preferment gives me a balanced flavor, the white flour preferment is mildest, and the whole wheat has the strongest flavor. For my preference, fermenting all of the whole wheat flour in the preferment makes the best tasting bread. When I'm baking for others, I use the same ratio of whole wheat to white as my main dough, since a lot of my friends don't like as strong of a whole wheat flavor. And, if i'm being lazy making the preferment right before bed, and only want to grab one container of flour, then 100% white flour will still make me a nice homemade loaf of bread! Thanks for the video, Charlie! Happy New Year!

[@ChainBaker]

Happy New Year! Cheers :)

[@CodyIrons]

i'm excited for your no knead videos you hinted at! my go to no knead youtuber hasn't posted in quite a while.

[@terryl.9302]

Enjoy your videos very much. *I'd add that whole grain flours can be 'allergenic' or indigestible to a sensitive stomach. *Pre-ferments in whole grains also deter Mold. And, here in US many premium white flours are tasteless, thus the additions give Flavor. European loaves are much preferred in this house to quick-stale sourdoughs.

[@ryandillon941]

I use 50/50. I am still a novice baker but learning a heck of a lot from you Thanks.

[@kevinu.k.7042]

Oh, dear, two posts, please forgive me. I've slept on this. It's a great experiment / demonstration. Can I digress from your video a little please? One key outcome is that bread made with a wholemeal/wholegrain preferment has more flavour. Staying with that: Within reason the longer the fermentation the better the flavour. Preferments such as poolish and biggas, were developed in commercial settings where large volumes of dough are being produced. They could not do long ferments with all of their dough because of both the need for rapid production and the constraints of space. Hence using only a portion of long fermented dough (the preferment, to get some of the flavour value. As home bakers all of our dough can be fermented as if it were a preferment. We actually do not need to copy this commercial shortcut. Two ways to do this: 1 Simple method: Take all of the water and add the same weight of flour. That is your preferment. 2 Simply when making the dough add only a small amount of yeast to slow the fermentation. A standard dosage rate is an 1/8 of a teaspoon of yeast per 500g of flour. The dough will ferment slowly so space the coil folds accordingly, or make it up the night before and leave it on the work top and proceed as normal the next day. There is a lot more I could say about the reasoning behind this, but this is the outcome. Tips: Hold any fats back until actually moving on to the bulk fermentation stage. Fats inhibit gluten formation. Do add the salt at the beginning, it will control unwanted enzyme activity in the wholemeal 'preferment'. Wholemeal flours have more enzymes than white flour and they are more active. The enzyme protease breaks gluten down, weakening the gluten network. The salt will depress its activity. I do hope this is helpful to someone! Thanks Charlie - You do great stuff - It's appreciated. 🙏

[@ChainBaker]

Sunday's video will be a comparison between preferments and cold bulk fermentation. You beat me to it 😅 I have made a comparison video in the past between a preferment and long room temperature bulk fermentation. In both cases the bulk produced a far more flavourful loaf. Preferments as you say are more useful for commercial baking as a time and space saving tool 👍

[@kevinu.k.7042]

@@ChainBaker Oops! An overkeen student - obviously 😁 I'm looking forward to that - will get some peanuts and a beer in - 👍

[@prg.1751]

​@@ChainBaker I'm looking forward to your Sunday video. Being lazy I always use the no knead method (and therefore enjoyed your "overrated" comment). I prefer sourdough bread, though, as it just needs flour and water (and salt). Strangely enough I like a mild flavour so I keep my preferment and even part of the bulk fermentation at around 30°C before I put it overnight in the fridge. I always wonder if I could do without a preferment and produce a mild bulk fermentation sourdough bread at room temperature - maybe by adjusting the amount of sourdough. In your upcoming video you'll probably use yeast. So, if you ever run out of ideas... (A long time ago when I was very inexperienced and did not really know what I was doing I produced a very sour bread at room temp which I only ate because I don't like throwing away food. That experience has discouraged me from doing my own experiments so far.)

[@tarapawils6876]

I swear you read my mind before you upload! Not the first time I've had a question about a 'this vs that' but couldn't find the answer online and too lazy to experiment myself, and then I find your video. I love these experiments, thank you!

[@jimtsevdos8669]

All - AP %50, Whole %50 Pizza - '00' pizza %75, AP %25, Semolina Great video, thanks!

[@JamesLangmead]

I regularly make a 20% rye loaf. I always get the best results in my winter recipe when I preferment all of the rye. In summer, I have to pull back on the preferment so that my bulk fermentation doesn't run wild. I have noticed that the flavour is lighter in summer, and I also tend to get less oven spring. Thanks for the video.

[@wilhelmienvannieuwenhuizen4119]

I have 3 starters with different flours for different breads. Thank you for your study, it confirmed my thinking, of maintaining them. Wholewheat &Rye, for dark breads. Half White and Rye for Farmer breads. Half White for light and sweet breads.

[@dianes4858]

I just started baking bread and found your channel. Thanks for your videos!

[@mikehunt42069]

Another valuable method when baking bread, great experiment 👍

[@MichaelGrode]

I'm quite surprised! For some reason I thought that you couldn't use whole wheat flour for preferments, since I wasn't seeing anyone else on KZbin doing it. What a fascinating discovery. The new ring is looking good!

[@Rich_ard]

Thank you sir, can't wait for part 2 with rye etc.

[@gossarli3447]

I use actually all three methods depending on the bread i want to bake. Your explanations are great and i did learn a lot from your videos. Thank you.

[@mogisgailis6922]

My favourite sourdough is spelt. Then rye. Wholemeal wheat is the 3-d.

[@georgeurquidi1602]

As always, thank you so much for this video! I always learn so much through this

[@bryanonthecoast572]

Fascinating. I use a poolish for my rye bread, but never any rye flour, just the white flour goes into the poolish. I need to switch that up and see what happens!

[@Aimia4]

How did you go? I'm making a poolish with 4% rye and 4% wholemeal 92% white bread flour (my wife didn't like the taste of non- white flour 😅) and I'm curious about how your experiment(s) went?

[@kevinu.k.7042]

Great experiment. Thanks I learned a little more today. I might be having a bad math day, but you might want to check the amounts in the associated article. They don't seem to make 70% hydration. Not that it changes the result. Adding a little info., now I know the results 😉 One of the reasons for a flavour difference might be that Wholemeal / whole grain, flour has many more active enzymes in it, as well as the nutrients and minerals you mentioned, when compared to white flour. Notably Amylase which produces malt sugars and thus some malt flavours. Also, Protease, which apart from shortening the gluten also produces amino acids (building bricks for proteins) these are metabolised by the yeasts and the result is the production of molecules which increase the flavour. This is on e of the core processes whereby longer fermentation gives more flavoursome breads. Assumption: The longer exposure to the yeast in first the preferment and then the ferment must allow more of these activities. Though enzymes in bread baking get's severely complex. It's just as well that dough is so tolerant of so many different methods. So I don't stress over it too much. This is a great demo - Thanks 👍

[@prg.1751]

Hi Kevin, thanks for your added information. You pointed out wholemeal has many more active enzymes. Therefore, I would have assumed that the wholemeal preferment puffed up the most OR has no effect as the nutrients and minerals increase as well. The opposite seems to be the case, though. (According to Chainbaker all preferments were well fermented.) Is there a reason why the wholemeal preferment gained less volume? Best Mike

[@ChainBaker]

Cheers, Kevin! Yeah you're right! There was a mistake. I've fixed it, thanks for letting me know :) That bit of scientific explanation really adds to the video. Thank you as ever 😊

[@ChainBaker]

Mike, it gained less volume mostly because it was drier since whole wheat absorbs water a lot better.

[@kevinu.k.7042]

@@prg.1751 Hi Mike I wondered about that too. Enzymes do not, as far as I know, increase the rate of fermentation. Excepting large amounts of amylase which produce sugars. I cannot explain the difference in the amount of CO2 that the different preferments generated. Except perhaps to guess that the white flour had more accessible starch for the yeast and so the fermentation proceeded at a greater pace. The other difference that Charlie pointed out was that the wholemeal preferment was drier do it its greater water absorbance. Wetter doughs and starters enjoy faster yeast activity.

[@kevinu.k.7042]

@@ChainBaker Your welcome. It was a very fruitful experiment... Your vlogs are a double win for me. I learn something and go away with much to think about. 😁

[@Erri-kb6et]

Hello Charlie, I have noticed a difference in dough strength in sourdough bread. White flour levain works better than whole rye levain for spelt bread that I make. The bread contains half whole spelt flour and half spelt flour, which has smaller gluten strings. With white wheat flour levain it rizes better during FP and in the oven and so I don't have to use wheat flour anymore in the bread in order to assure that it is not almost flat. It seems like this small amount of wheat flour helps to keep the gasses formed in the dough. The hydration of the dough is 70%. Greetings.

[@quakerwildcat]

Love it! I asked you this question a while back and was thrilled to see you take it on in a dedicated video. I hadtried mixing whole wheat into the preferment with success but had never tried 100%. I will now! Also I didn't realize that the amount of expansion didn't really matter. Great to know! Thank you as always!

[@PerfectDeath4]

When I usually make bread I do 1/3 whole wheat, and for some reason I've always used the white flour for the preferment... I always thought about trying the whole wheat for a poolish but everytime I'd start a preferment I'd grab the white by habit! xD

[@chrisarthur6524]

I've been using pre ferments since I found your channel in September. I now use a poolish with a pate fermentee with every white/whole wheat flour loaf I bake, and it really has improved the flavour immensely

[@joeytuzz]

wow, you really put everything to the test!! all those little thoughts that come with each bake, thank you for doing the work!!!

[@koubenakombi3066]

Great experiment! Thank you, Charlie!

[@damianrhea8875]

Thank you, Charlie! This is very interesting information!

[@rowdog6376]

Definitely worth a go with the next sour dough levain. I’m having more success with a low hydration levain here in nz being summer so adding whole grains to it will be interesting. Thanks Charlie

[@adrian00v]

Great video, very interesting!

[@Jeepy2-LoveToBake]

Wait - where is the chain? j/k - I read your community post. That is a very nice ring that your father gifted to you. Very informative and well demonstrated video - thank you! I feel the results are pretty much what I would have thought from the beginning. Honestly, I don't stray much from your recipes - I use whatever flour you use in your recipe. That being said, perhaps this year I'll try to branch out more with the bread making and try different flours - will have to ponder on that thought. Thank you again for sharing this very cool video. ChainBaker fans! If you haven't already, please share your bakes with family and friends and post photos on your social media channels and of course, don't forget to mention ChainBaker's YT channel and ask them to subscribe - we are now at 127K subscribers and continue to grow each week!!!! 🤩🤩🤩 Don't forget to sign up for "Charlie's Baking Buddies" - a great community with other bakers - we share photos, comments, ideas and recipes (195 members strong, sharing over 1100 photos of their beautiful home bakes - yay!!). You can find the link in the Description section (click "SHOW MORE"). Go "Team ChainBaker"!!! 📣

[@mateusfccp]

I've made a lot of panettones this December but I always forget to take photos to share in the group!

[@Jeepy2-LoveToBake]

@@mateusfccp 🙂 Oh, please try to remember the next time - I would love to see your bakes (as would everyone else)!!

[@doraharrison1642]

awesome experiment and info thank you. I haven't seen you lately.. Happy New Year

[@louizabell9905]

Thanks for another the great video! I recently started using a poolish preferment and was wondering about this question when using a mix of flours. Last batch I used the white flour for the preferment. But I will try the whole wheat next time.

[@michelemarch8606]

Thanks! Another great video, Charlie! I've been using white flour for preferment and whole wheat plus my soaker for the rest (recipe based on a fairly well-known baker). I'm changing my recipe around, based on your experiment. My low-carb life is OK for a bit, and I am getting some success with various flours, including lupin flour.....the experiments are interesting, well kind of fun! But I will make real bread again in a few months 😉!!!!!

[@candylyman6429]

I use w/w flour in preferment to hydrate the flour. If I don’t use a preferment I autolyse the w/w flour with all the water to hydrate the w/w flour for 20 to 30 min. I have found the crumb of the bread is better. The fiber in the w/w flour doesn’t fall out of the bread when you slice it.

[@Krampus360]

Interesting study 👍👍

[@nobbymorph]

Another great video... As others have said, I use bread flour instead of Wholemeal for the preferment and for the life of me I cannot tell you why. I will be trying the wholemeal preferment soon. Thanks for all the experiments you do, it always challenges the norm.

[@mmlearner]

I've been 'no kneading' for a long time and realized recently that mixing and kneading can we similar. I love your methods btw.

[@NikaRunsAndBakes]

This video has been on my hope-to-see list for a while now! Excellent comparison :-) I feed my started with a 50-50 blend of while and whole wheat, then make a loaf with anywhere between 10-50% whole wheat flour. I haven’t done any taste tests, but I do much prefer the 50-50 starter to the 100% whole wheat starter I had. I have never used a 100% white flour starter.

[@IanLatham]

Since starting to use a pre-ferment (I always make a poolish) I've pretty much stopped making sourdough. Pre-ferment gives me the taste and textures I like with much less hassle (I know it's not really a huge hassle but it's still less). After watching this I'll definitely be using a whole wheat poolish. I've always used white flour for this previously for no real reason, so thanks. Great video as always

[@1DrBar]

I actually don't mind any degree of hastle, and consider it to be a quest for the pinacle of the art. I shall try this pre-frementation as I get some further skills. What.a deep dive baking can be - with the right attitude and level of curiosity.

[@goodfty]

@@1DrBar Humility goes a long way too.

[@1DrBar]

@@goodfty I can't seem to find any to order on Amazon. We must be out of that humility here in the USA just now. ;)

[@langlangcech]

Hi Chainbaker. Recently I saw a video about baking bread in a covered pot in cold oven and heating it throughout the bake (heating to 230C, baking 50 minutes) . I've tried it several times with great success. The bonus is that at the end of the bake your oven is hot and you can bake another loaf or cook your meal while the bread is cooling. I think it might be a good comparison video for you too.

[@ChainBaker]

That one's on my list. I definitely want to try it :)

[@juanmazapan9044]

Have a wonderful year

[@ChainBaker]

Same to you 🙏

[@edithharmer1326]

Fducational! Great chanel amd Tutorials! Thank you for sharing! Greetings from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Edith, a happy Subcriber

[@doremiancleff1508]

What a simple and very conclusive experiment. Since this is a kind of prefrement you would normaly use in simple breads anyway, there is no reason not to use wholewheat. Wouldn't got for it for enriched dough, since it affects texture, but for flavor in mixed doughs? Hell yeah.

[@chopsddy3]

Great vid. I thought the white flour would make it rise more. I was wrong. I refresh my starter with rye flour and make the preferment with the type of flour of the loaf I intend to make. Wish I would have watched this earlier. I have two loaves bulk fermenting right now.

[@alanpounds2660]

I’ve just started using the whole all flour as my preferment and agree with you. There is more taste than when I used white as the preferment in a 50/50 loaf

[@manju331]

I use Whole Wheat because I get the best fermentation and texture/taste. It probably has to do with the kind of flour I use and my kitchen atmosphere etc. WW never fails. Sometimes I do use Rye but WW is my go to Flour for preferment 💜🍞

[@terryroggensee4103]

I prefer whole wheat or multiple grain flour. I really liked this exercise. Getting to see that there really is not much physical difference between them. I’m more interested in nutrition benefits of whole wheat. Thanks ! Loved the mini pans idea 🎉 Phoenix area 🥵

[@cisium1184]

I am doing this something like this now with 80% white bread flour and 20% semola, with all the semola in a mixed-flour preferment. Also trying cold fermentation in the fridge. Basically trying to get the most flavor I can get out of the semola.

[@hashishi9]

I am just beginning making bread seriously, and I was looking if I could use rye - or any other than wheat for that matter - in the preferment, and looks like I have to make some tests as well :D Thank you!

[@kevinu.k.7042]

Hi - Rye pre-ferments mature a lot faster than wheat flours. So it is best to plan for that. They work just fine though. Wishing you good baking. :)

[@burtonyan8467]

I managed to get a starter going with purely white flour because I wanted to see how it might work. It'll be interesting to start trying out different flours for the main dough and for the pre-bake starter.

[@Poundy]

while the conclusion might have been obvious, I actually like the way you went through the process to demonstrate it and prove the theory. As you said, the contrast between first and last taste, when you just go left to right, is nowhere near as obvious as when you then duck back to the left one straight again... I regularly taste coffees and do the same thing, I'll reverse the order I go past them to see if I've seen any "build up" in flavour that I don't get when tasting in a different order, often allows me to highlight sweetness I wasn't aware of.

[@andrewcrockett4379]

I haven't conducted any experiments on this, but I was under the impression that whole wheat flour can mess up gluten formation due its "sharp" structure. Thus, I always use my whole wheat flour in my preferments to avoid wasting time making an autolyse. The stronger flavor is only a plus.

[@georgepagakis9854]

From my experiments, I find that when you do long fermentation in the fridge for 24-48 hours you need the strongest flour in protein for the pre ferment. it helps from over proofing. But when you use strong flour like 13.5% for pre ferment and then a 11.5% for the refreshment then the dough balls can take more time in the fridge. As far as taste goes, I use 00 flour for all my pizza so it tastes great. I find Poolish or Biga is a difference in final taste and my preferred is Biga. Never tried hole wheat and I doubt I ever will :P Another great video :) Happy new year bro :)

[@mktlateshow8704]

This is a baking academy 💚💐

[@LadyLynxes]

This was great research, and I really appreciate it! Something interesting happened with my dinner roll recipe I used twice over the holidays: It’s white, whole wheat , rye, and corn meal. 85/5/5/5% of total flour respectively. For my first batch, I prefermented the whole wheat and rye, and for the second batch I cold bulk fermented over night. The first batch had a much more intense flavor, and the texture of the corn meal was noticeable. The second batch had a more mild flavor, and the corn meal was more noticeable in flavor but not texture. Seems to make sense, since the corn meal absorbed so much more moisture during the long bulk fermentation. Not entirely related to the purpose of this video, but perhaps a good idea for a future one? A great way to highlight how the same pile of ingredients can be used to make different tasting breads just using different mixing and fermentation methods. Love your stuff! I hope your bakes go well this year.

[@ChainBaker]

That's literally the next video I will post! 😅 Cheers :)

[@markjarrett9400]

I have always done 50/50, because I always have. I have no idea why. Anyway I will try with the wholemeal flour. Thank you for getting me to think.

[@tammytammy4932]

I used only Whole Wheat Flour for Preferments and Dough.

[@Sanrolino]

Hey man nice comparison! I've just had a video idea that could work - would be nice to know how the folding and shaping impacts in the final bread. For example folding or not at the half of bulk fermentation (I've started to do it so) and as well different shaping technics.

[@ChainBaker]

Folding and degassing go hand in hand, so this video may do the job kzbin.info/www/bejne/el6kfXaeg6eUeNU ✌️😎

[@Swiftmonkey]

I have a lot of extra whole wheat flour, I am going to start baking my bread with preferment this way to see if there is any difference. I have been looking for a way to use the extra flour without having to make a complete whole wheat loaf. Thanks 👍

[@byrons8956]

I can never let the bread cool completely. I always try a mix of the two.

[@asterixky]

I was also wandering about that, now my wheat flour is sure to go on my Poolish. Thanks again for the science experiment.

[@krysalia]

"let's clean up the mess 👏" :D. Charlie, please, would you come and do this magic clap in my house too :D ?

[@ChainBaker]

😁👍

[@kellyb8237]

Cool Ring .... Use to wonder why channel called chainbaker .... Should be RingBaker now 😂😂

[@BigboiiTone]

My mom uses white flour for preferment but she will try doing whole wheat now

[@terryl.9302]

I prefer European Loaves bcz grain is more dense for toast, etc, keeps well. Seminola, farina, oatmeal & hot cereals like Maypo, Cream-of-Wheat etc. make a flavorful Poolish. Flours can vary so much, its ridiculous, so I use for main dough process only. Some flours are absolutely tasteless, making a Poolish essential. Sugars vary the flavor, as does Dairy (buttermilk, milk powders + honey) - to retard any excess souring. From 2c I can get 4-pullman long loaves from 7.c flour. You cd cook a porridge grain mix, but a ferment is best for full flavor. I go by scent - up to 24.hrs for a good aromatic ferment. Coconut, flaxseed & toasted wheat germ add depth to bread. Eggs are optional. Loaves are soft, firm, thin or thick sliced, easy to vary. Expanded horizons happened for me w/ this new method; bread is never boring as you develop favorite recipes. Kneading is passe. Quick mix of a hydrated dough and let it rise, add flour/fat as needed before final rise/shaping.

[@Tilmann5138]

The result is also my experience and the reason why I only ever bake 90% whole wheat sourdough bread, never 100%. 10% of the flour is white because I use that for my starter. If I use a wholegrain starter for a whole wheat sourdough bread, the result will be too acidic. Using a white starter produces a milder bread that is still noticeably sour. My wife won't eat a whole wheat sourdough bread that was leavened with a whole wheat starter 😅

[@gutschke]

I have a very related question and would love to see a video on it. When using a tangzhong or yudane, you have the exact same choice to make. Should you use bread flour, whole wheat, rye, or a blend? Does the answer change if more than 10% of your total flour is gelatinized up front? Intuitively, I'd expect differences as these methods remove flour that otherwise could contribute to gluten formation. So, the type of flour should matter. But that's at best an educated guess right now

[@ChainBaker]

I don't think there would be a huge flavour difference if all else is equal as in my video. There is no fermentation in those improvers, so the only way there could be any flavour development may be from the heating of the flour. Tangzhong and yudane both damage the proteins in the flour making it weaker. I guess if a recipe had both white and rye, then it would be best to use the rye in the improver, so that the white flour can be utilized for its gluten strength. While the rye could be gelatinized and add all the benefits that an improver brings. Sounds like a great video idea. I will add it to my list.

[@kerstinolsson4038]

I prefer using rye flour

[@michaelfforte]

Forget the pre-ferments. I'm still trying to clap my hands and make my work surface instantly clean up! All I got so far is my dog starts barking when I clap my hands. Flour on board does not move. Any tips? Kidding aside - GREAT experiment. It's all about the flavour for me.

[@ChainBaker]

😅

[@rob123456hawke]

What about rye vs wheat for preferment for mixed flour breads ?

[@ChainBaker]

I'd say go for rye. But taste is subjective after all 👍

[@wolfgangreichl3361]

Ok, so my bread game has improved significantly, not the least do you your channel - thank you - but your clean up process is still a complete mystery to me, I've clapped my hands bloody and the only effect is dispersing the flour even further into the whole kitchen 😫

[@ChainBaker]

😁

[@ep081598]

Can you do videos and comparisons with sprouted wheat flour and einkorn? It would be interesting to compare ancient breads vs todays bread too. Thanks!

[@ChainBaker]

I will do in the future for sure ✌

[@markkevin7245]

Brilliant as Always… can you show your sourdough doughnuts recipe?

[@ChainBaker]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/o3LFmZx4o9drZpY

[@solarpony]

Holy cow, I just looked you up specifically to ask a question, and wanted to comment on your recent video which this is it. I've just recently decided to do a starter, and I'm on day 8 with much success. One began as whole grain wheat and the other one began as whole grain rye. A couple of days ago, I started feeding the wheat one unbleached AP. The rye I have continued feeding only rye. My question was, which one do you believe will produce the best tasting sourdough? I'm looking for your educated opinion here as I am very new. Please let me know your findings in this matter? Much much thanks!

[@ChainBaker]

Taste is highly subjective and it will depend on the flour you use in the leaven that you make from that starter. But the same rules will apply as in this video. Whole grains = more flavour 👍

[@john.taylor.7809]

With cold bulk fermentation and long cold fermentation, do you still use a leaven in your sourdough recipe? I am... !: Making a leaven 8-12 hours before making the dough using a 1, 8, 8 ratio. Starter, flour, water. (The leaven is best with the whole wheat flour, as in this video, yes?) 2: Scalding whole wheat flour 1 hour before making the dough. (84% white bread flour and 16% whole wheat flour in my recipe) 3: Dissolve the salt in the remaining water, then mix in the leaven, scald, and remaining flour and form the dough. Let dough rest for 30 minutes, maximizing water absorption and preventing sticky dough. (LOL Still working on lessening the stickiness, you professionals make it look so easy!) 4: Fold, per your instructions. Let dough rest for 20 minutes. 5: Fold, per your instructions. Let dough rest for 20 minutes. 6: Fold, per your instructions. Let dough rest for 20 minutes. 7: Fold, per your instructions. Let dough rest for 20 minutes. (This last fold may be excessive) 8: Cold bulk ferment until dough has nearly doubled in size. 9: Fold and cold ferment for 24 to 48 hours. 10: Preheat Oven to 500 degrees Fahrenheit with cast iron dutch oven and a water filled cast iron pan in the oven for 1 hour. (Do you let the dough come to room temperature or do you put it in the oven straight from the refrigerator? If the dough needs to come out of the fridge, I would do that here and give it its final shaping. 11: Lower oven temperature to 450 degrees Fahrenheit, do a final shaping, put dough in cast iron dutch oven, spray top of dough, and put the dutch oven lid on. 12: Bake for 30 minutes. 13: Remove dutch oven lid and bake for another 15 ish minutes. Is this any good? Feedback, coaching?

[@ChainBaker]

I use a leaven no matter how I ferment my sourdough bread. My starter is usually in the fridge, so I must build a leaven before I can use it or else it would not make anything rise 😅

[@ancaomhnoirrua]

@@ChainBaker What ratio do you use generally for sourdough? I've seen a few different ratios across a few of your recipes. Can a leaven also be described as feeding a discard?

[@lyn1896]

Interesting. Do you think the flavor differences will disappear (or maybe even the gluten weaken faster, in the bread with the whole wheat preferment), if you cold ferment the doughs for some days?

[@ChainBaker]

Not sure. There's only one way to find out 😀 Although, I don't see a reason to ferment it for so long. After 24h the preferments will already be out of steam.

[@lyn1896]

@@ChainBaker I meant to cold ferment the whole dough, not only the preferment :) As you know, cold fermenting the dough will increase the flavors. But at some point the gluten network will start to deteriorate.The whole wheat will get in trouble first...

[@FrenchFries235]

I'm so terrible at this. "It's really hard to mess this up" is a phrase I heard many times. Well challenge accepted!

[@DanoneczkQs]

That's some sick ring you've showed us this time :>

[@ChainBaker]

😎

[@AverageReviewsYT]

0:02..plot twist.. he shoots his intros laying on the floor

[@ChainBaker]

😉

[@glennwolf4570]

Out of curiosity wouldn't using only white flour in all 3 main loaf adds have been a better test of the effects on final outcome with regard to improvement?

[@ChainBaker]

I wanted to keep all the recipes exactly the same. But perhaps I'll try it with just the pre-ferments someday too. Cheers.

[@davep4101]

Question for Charlie or any of the pro bakers here. I have done preferment before but not often. What is the difference with preferment vs just making the dough and letting it work it’s magic overnight to bake the next day? Isn’t that basically the same thing?

[@ChainBaker]

Fermenting the whole dough produces a much more flavourful bread. I will publish a video about it this weekend 😎

[@akhduke]

When can a preferment be considered unfit to use. Does it go bad if unused for a long time

[@akhduke]

Also if being unaware of this and accidentally using the preferment, does it spoil the whole loaf?

[@ChainBaker]

Unless it smells absolutely horrible, it should be fine to use.

[@shekharpatel]

Adding complicated steps like prefermentation with mixed flour (mixed anything) before bulk fermentation are not only unnecessary for a home baker but frivolous and time consuming. Why do you add additional yeast to water when preferment has plenty of it and in good physiological condition?

[@ChainBaker]

Because not adding more yeast would make no sense either. Just ferment the whole dough for longer. A preferment is a time saving method for the commercial baker ✌️

[@sheilam4964]

👍👍👍👍👍

[@johannesnm9706]

nice ring:)

[@ChainBaker]

Cheers 😎

[@marjamerryflower]

Do i see a little chain on the ring? It so subtle

[@CarlosManuelViana]

I use rye flour for my starter - within 3 hours it has tripled - Did the ChainBaker experiment with using beer instead of water?

[@ChainBaker]

Not yet, but sounds like a good plan! 😎

[@Dimythios]

When it comes down to baking bread it comes down to cost. White Flour is what I use. But with the basic essentials I make some of the greatest Sweet n' Sour (very slight hint of sour) Dessert Bread that can be made. It comes down to the basics, the knowledge of baking and not to be afraid of cooking. We all have our styles of baking bread and your channel helps a lot of people get comfortable in baking bread.

[@niallr22]

What do you think about preferments with rye flour?

[@ChainBaker]

Same thing. It'll taste even better.

[@niallr22]

@@ChainBaker thanks, your channel is amazing! I've learned a lot

[@TheSaltyOG]

Is a sourdough starter *technically* considered a preferment?

[@ChainBaker]

That's exactly what it is ✌

[@stackhatter]

Hello 👋 Off-topic, but wondering what your accent is?

[@ChainBaker]

Latvian 🇱🇻

[@WallaAbouelazmKitchen]

وووواوووو❤

[@hayatokulu4bbilgibilimbili698]

+

[@ReviewGameNL]

It's a shame to use yeast. The reason I bake sour dough is because I don't want to use yeast.

[@ChainBaker]

You can use whatever you want.

[@khodayehrangekaman315]

❤ ❤ ❤ 🇺🇸 👌 🙏🙏🙏🫶👏👏