Does "More Calvinistic than Calvin" misrepresent Calvinism? Dr. Victor Lee & Samuel Nesan

Does "More Calvinistic than Calvin" misrepresent Calvinism? Dr. Victor Lee & Samuel Nesan | Part 1/4

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@CalvinCheah 10 ай бұрын

Really appreciate this. Seeing the 3 of you come together and talk, especially on a topic you have different viewpoints on, with friendliness and understanding, I think it says something about the effectiveness of patience and love over trying to score points for your own camp. I take Dr Victor's point about the need for simpler, more understandable voices from Reformed Christians. We are not known for our brevity. Depth, yes. Passion, maybe. Pride, unfortunately so at times. But it might be worth saying things simply, if not, with shorter sentences. My comment is probably a bad example of this. Thank you Brandon for being the guy in the middle - asking the obvious questions we all want to know the answers to. Thank you Samuel Nesan for bringing everyone to the table and making this happen. Thank you Dr Victor (and the authors of the book) for reflecting on an issue admittedly beyond your scope of expertise but doing so out of love for those grappling with this hot topic today.

@ExplainApologetics 10 ай бұрын

Thank you for the kind comment Calvin!

@anthonytylernecerato4289 10 ай бұрын

@@ExplainApologeticsI want to debate one of you on LGBTQ Christianity

@ExplainApologetics 10 ай бұрын

Thank you for your interest to debate. As we are not a debate channel, we recommend that you write to TGT (The Gospel Truth) or Modern-Day Debate as they may be able to arrange something for you. If, however, you are inviting us to debate for a church/event you are organizing, please kindly email the details to explainapologetics@gmail.com for us to consider. Alternatively, if you have questions and would like to discuss them, we would be thrilled to speak to you. Also, please kindly email us and someone from our team will be in touch with you. Blessings.

@anthonytylernecerato4289 10 ай бұрын

@@ExplainApologetics Sorry that wasn’t very explanatory, I’m looking to host someone from your channel to an apologetic LGBTQ debate possibly even Dr White or Dr. Boyce. I want to do it in June for Pride 🏳️‍🌈 month, I have sent numerous emails to many people and went unheard

@ExplainApologetics 10 ай бұрын

Thank you for your email, we will get back to you as soon as possible. Blessings.

@choongmingchan 10 ай бұрын

I don’t understand how The facilitator can say he hasn’t read the book and yet try to facilitate the discussion…🤦‍♂️

@blahther 10 ай бұрын

Not great that he hasn't read the book, but as he's not contributing to the discussion like Samuel or Dr Victor, he doesn't need to be an expert on the book or the subject.

@LTKing2013 10 ай бұрын

Most people just don't like to read. They like to listen and especially, watch. This is the Netflix/KZbin generation.

@l3on3w 10 ай бұрын

The Arminian “scholar” is basically saying that he’s not a Calvinist expert but he decided to WRITE a book on Calvinism without doing the research and due diligence to properly represent the other side. His only justification for this is so that it is simple to understand. So presumably, it is OK to misrepresent someone else because you want to keep things simple? So has he researched on what the Bible says about slander? The subtext to this is basically that “Christians” in the Arminian camp (mostly Charismatic) are lazy and can’t be bothered to do deep theological study. They just want something simple to gloss over. And the leaders and pastors are condoning and even encouraging this by feeding them exactly what they want. Which is obviously the truth and the issue with mainstream Christianity of our day. It is a Christianity void of critical thinking.

@TheRomans9Guy 10 ай бұрын

I’ll push back on this sentiment. The clear, basic teaching of the Bible is normally very well understood by the average person. Your basic Sunday school children’s lessons get the gist of it correct. Then, in history, some guys with very bad reading comprehension skills, but also with high charismas, ran across more difficult scriptures that they didn’t understand at all, they tried to cobble together a meaning from them, but being only pseudo-intellectuals they failed spectacularly, and they foisted upon Christianity a horrible, borderline evil/blasphemous theology that just about goes 180 degrees in the opposite direction of what most simple people can see is the teaching of scripture. So now we’ve had to go much deeper into certain passages to show how these psuedo-intellectuals terribly misunderstood the Bible in the first place. One glaring example is why I took the name TheRomans9Guy. In Romans 9, these historical figures have taken Paul to be teaching the Doctrine of Election. When in fact, after actual, deep review, he is destroying the Jews’ own doctrine of election. Paul is not teaching that God has chosen only some people, he’s correcting that hideous teaching that had been around for centuries. As anyone who knows Jews and Judaism knows. How did these psuedo-intellectuals get this wrong? Easily. None of them ever had any exposure to Jews or Judaism, but also felt there was no reason they should find out about the subject Paul was teaching about. No reasonable intellectual proposes an idea on a subject they know nothing about. It’s the height of hubris. Yet this irresponsible behavior led to centuries of terrible theology.

@l3on3w 10 ай бұрын

@@TheRomans9Guy Err, how about “Jacob I loved and Esau I hated”? Lol. You know it’s not just Romans 9 that teaches Augustinian predestination right?

@Sam-cz87 10 ай бұрын

The irony is that he mentioned this was for the "general public" but later mentioned the people who gave feedback were the pastors themselves because they had no clue how to deal with questions on reformed theology and "That is the state of the church unfortunately" and they then wonder why people leave their churches?

@TheRomans9Guy 10 ай бұрын

@@l3on3w Well, just looking at how you quote verse 13 thinking that it supports Augustinian predestination proves my point. And I do know there's more verses, but Romans 9 is the focal point and they get that one bad enough. Who do you think Paul meant is Jacob, and who is Esau? If you don't know then you're getting 9:13 wrong. Are you familiar with Galatians 4?

@l3on3w 10 ай бұрын

@@TheRomans9Guy ok if you say so Mr. Scholar. Lol

@musicforlife64ful 10 ай бұрын

Just wanna clarify on what Rev Dr Victor Lee mentioned: Anglicans actually fall under the Reformed group, in fact we have a very much Reformed confession of faith known as the 39 Articles of religion. We are, historically, a Catholic (but not Roman) and Reformed faith. Protestant soteriology, christology, and Sacramentology is clearly seen in our Anglican formularies.

@LTKing2013 10 ай бұрын

I know, I noticed that too. But the Church of England has drifted too far away, not just from the Reformed faith but even basic Christianity.

@musicforlife64ful 9 ай бұрын

@@LTKing2013 let them be Anathema for preaching a Gospel contrary to that of Paul

@Sam-cz87 10 ай бұрын

I read the book, and to be honest the most concerning part is how unchristian and unloving it is to the church mentioned in it. I think the video really speaks for itself 1. Authors blatantly admit they are not experts and the book is full of generalization and reductionism that lumps everyone together 2. In speaking of this particular church in the first and last chapters, it then implies "this church believes in all this generalization and reductionism". This really casts doubt to the legitimacy of the church which mind you ultimately belongs to God. Then in the final chapter they commend that this church "must be doing something right" and that they're "making a real attempt to teach the Bible to the young people, both on Sundays and throughout the week, and that is something that appears to be lacking in many churches in the Klang Valley." 3. But after all the generalizations in the book, everyone now would associate this church with all the generalizations in the book. Please la, if they're doing something right, this book was totally uncalled for then. 4. Finally for Brandon, given what was said above. I've lost respect for you since you've just promoted something you had ZERO knowledge on since you mentioned you didn't even read the book. You just promoted a book that lacks proper due diligence scholarship and promotes prejudice against fellow Christians. 5. Can you guys actually write books that fight real issues in our churches? What about the blatant prosperity gospel rampant in so many churches? I don't see you guys writing a book about so many other megachurches when very obviously many people leave your churches to go there.

@marcuslee5913 10 ай бұрын

You from CERC? Cause while many reformed people disagree with the book, the only guys who would label any disagreement as unloving & unchristian are those from CERC.

@mikeleong4182 10 ай бұрын

It's silly for a church to divide over this issue, as it is not a fundamental doctrine. perhaps it's a symptom of deeper issues in that church

@blahther 10 ай бұрын

You are funny. Just outed yourself from said church. Siapa makan cili terasa pedas.

@LTKing2013 10 ай бұрын

Even before Sam laid out the objections of the Reformed community, I knew one of them would be misrepresentation. I have never heard any case made by Arminians against Reformed theology that is devoid of misrepresentation.

@Tanjaicholan 9 ай бұрын

I read the book and found it surprisingly lacking in any understanding of Reformed Theology.

@michaelleong1977 10 ай бұрын

The most important point is the Human condition, ie.pelagianism. If the "T" is correct, then the rest of ULIP is the only logical conclusion

@TheRomans9Guy 10 ай бұрын

Not that I think Total Depravity is correct, but even if it were, if God regenerated all people then T isn’t important at all. It’s really the U or L of TULIP that really veers away from scripture, not T.

@Home-ox9yd 10 ай бұрын

For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. - Romans 8:6-8

@michaelleong1977 10 ай бұрын

kzbin.info/www/bejne/i2nMiqalhMdplcUfeature=shared

@LockerArchives 10 ай бұрын

@@TheRomans9Guyit is actually your lack of submission to God's Word that warrants such a poor comment which reveals your poor theology.

@TheRomans9Guy 10 ай бұрын

@@LockerArchives quite the opposite is true.

@martynwong1253 10 ай бұрын

A full response from a Reformed perspective to ‘More Calvinistic than Calvin’ has been published under the title: ‘Beware of the Ecumenical Agenda’ by Dr Poh Boon Sing.