Does More Power = Better Sound? Outlaw Audio 2220 Monoblock Amplifier

I upgraded my home theater. I added the Outlaw Audio monoblock 2220 amplifiers to power my Left, Center and Right speakers.
Outlaw Audio 2220
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XLR cable
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[@Youthman]

Great analogy with the Nissan vs BMW.

[@GeorgeTheaterAtHome]

Thanks!

[@arielalaniz6057]

Just want to give my 2 cents on upgrading and noticing a positive change. People talk about it being a placebo. If you hear a positive change whether or not it’s a placebo or not, if you’re happy with your purchase, that’s all that matters. It is a good investment. People say expensive cables matter, I don’t agree but if you hear a positive change in sound, you have won. In regards to xlr cables. Objectively there is usually a 3db boost from rca cables. Thanks for your content. Keep up the great work.

[@GeorgeTheaterAtHome]

I totally agree. Enjoyment of the sound and video is the objective. Thanks for watching!

[@Gamer4Eire]

I have heard this argument many times on theater builds as a justification for the purchases made. However, just because one person perceives an improvement (mostly placebo) it doesn't mean anyone else will. The only way to show an improvement are the before and after measurements in say REW. I don't wish to deny anyone the pleasure of a perceived improvements but let's be practical (as much as we can with our expensive hobby), there has to be some form of cost benefit. Keep up the good work George, love the channel.

[@MechAdv]

The thing I love about using HT amplifiers for Hifi application is that you don’t have to worry about the dreaded “synergy” of matching the voicing of the speaker to the warmth/coolness of the amplifier from Hifi brands. I had a Cambridge audio integrated amp before, and I had to EQ the bass and treble up to match the slight midrange bump that amplifier applies. With my monolith 7x, there’s no coloration and no distortion. I removed EQ and played them back to back with the same processor switching from one output to the other on my preamp, and even with my eyes closed and my wife pushing the buttons, I could hear the vocal “thickness” and fake “warmth” disappear with the monolith, and just get clean sound through my mains.

[@ts6640]

Purchased 3X2220 amps about three years ago and haven’t looked back since. Fantastic upgrade (really reduces the strain on the main AV Receiver powering my 7.4.4 system).

[@kewlbug]

XLR gives you twice the signal voltage vs rca. Plus the noise and ground loop immunity

[@Echo-jg8is]

Your making a lot of assumptions, most have sufficient voltage gain to not bother with XLRs and most will have short cable runs from the pre amp to the power amp to not allow interference to happen.

[@kewlbug]

@@Echo-jg8is I didn’t assume anything. Just stating some facts. I don’t have XLR on any of my equipment at the moment.

[@MusicMovies67]

Over short runs XLR vs RCA makes no difference

[@ts6640]

You are both right but at the end of the day doesn’t really matter for short cable runs

[@mezzup1]

This homecinema bubble we are in makes us all suffer from upgradetitis.

[@GeorgeTheaterAtHome]

lol so true! It’s unavoidable and contagious.

[@robertrobitaille320]

Lollll

[@chebrubin]

100% endorse 3 x monoblocks!

[@gab7344]

When you think you are done , next minute mmm gotta have that. HT upgrades are never done...lol

[@GeorgeTheaterAtHome]

The journey is too much fun. If you ever truly reach endgame, the journey is over. And who wants that? 😁

[@gab7344]

@@GeorgeTheaterAtHome aaahhh the wife....lol

[@melraine919]

Too true well done 👏🏼 👍🏼✌🏼🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🇬🇧

[@GeorgeTheaterAtHome]

Thanks!

[@melraine919]

@@GeorgeTheaterAtHome You’re welcome 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🇬🇧

[@dwaynepiper3261]

Typically XLR and RCA signal voltage levels are different. Your speaker level issue was most likely attributed that.

[@MattyDaddy14]

Awesome upgrade video!!! How bout we add 2 more height channels to run off the big amp! 🎉. Also, still waiting for ya to get an RBH 21” sub or harbottle 24”! 🎉 haha

[@GeorgeTheaterAtHome]

I would LOVE to get one of those subs! I just don’t have the space for them 😢 I’ve considered adding a 3rd set of Heights but due to space constraints I think they would be mashed in too close to the Rears and Middle Heights and would be indistinguishable from them.

[@menash41]

Just got mine for my center channel. L&R are powered by Parasound A21+

[@GeorgeTheaterAtHome]

Nice! Excellent setup. Thanks for watching!

[@kewlbug]

I try to avoid bridging channels if you can. The noise floor and distortion is additive. You can debate if it’s audible. Or worth the trade off. Admittedly I’m bridging channels to the low end of my towers. Using a mini dsp and amps on my front towers.

[@graysonpeddie]

Speaking of upgrades that I saw in comments, if you have an 8K projector or an 8K TV, along with an 8K source, but you cannot tell the difference between 4K vs 8K, you might as well stick with 4K. For games, I can tell a difference between 2160p and 1080p when I play Portal and Portal 2. It's mostly to do with the grating panels. Perhaps 8K might make it look much sharper, but if I do play games such as The Talos Principle 1 and 2, I don't think I'll see that much of a difference without ever paying attention to details. But hey! Glad you enjoyed the monoblocks. We should all have XLR cables at some point if we upgrade to separates with XLR hookups, which is what I'm going to do in the future.

[@scruffy8861]

Using a 2220 to power my Revel Voice2 center speaker. Like the speaker and like the amp.

[@GeorgeTheaterAtHome]

That is a great pairing. Thanks for watching!

[@lightningwaves5436]

Also speakon outputs. Much louder and more powerful than banana outputs

[@andrewskaterrr]

Um no? I don't think you understand how Speakon connectors work. They will be the same.

[@FrankieKennethL]

Ohh yeahhh. Congrats 🍾

[@kewlbug]

The crowns are (cheap) class D right? I would only use those for subs. Especially after testing my older models. If anyone is looking for amps, I picked up a 12 ch Niles amp super cheap. Of course mono blocks are the dream.

[@GeorgeTheaterAtHome]

Crowns are kind of looked down on by the audiophile crowd. I think of them as the blue collar workhorse. Lots of power without a lot of finesse. But they get the job done. When I switched over to the crowns from the Yamaha for my Sides and Rears those speakers came ALIVE.

[@garyausten5939]

My RP600M2s (L/R mains) are rated at 100-400W. They are running out of a Denon AVR through a Tonewinner 11-channel amp using the preamp setting. The amp puts out 105-320 WPC depending on the number of channels driven at once and which speakers (LCR are given more power). Could the main speakers realistically handle up to 400W if it has it in the range? I have a 7.2 4 system Klipsch/Polk combo.

[@electronash]

In theory, there should be very little difference in frequency response between the Crown amps and Outlaw amps. Assuming the Crowns are half-decent, which they generally are. I wonder if the perceived improvement in sound would be as noticeable if you switched back to the original ARC measurement, but using the new Outlaw amps?

[@electronash]

There can be other factors though, of course, like how the different amps affect the phase vs frequency. Would be interesting if you had a way to quickly switch between the amps, but keeping the same ARC calibration. (I guess it would also have to be blind testing / ABX testing.)

[@GeorgeTheaterAtHome]

I agree there is likely not a huge difference between the Crowns and Outlaws. The major difference I’m hearing is the upgrade for the Center channel, from the Yamaha to the Outlaw. Also, switching the Mains over to Outlaw freed up a Crown unit and now I’m using it on my Sides. I’m loving the difference! Thanks for watching!

[@Roof_Pizza]

AVR's typically run hotter due to the HDMI board

[@nonametofame]

What made you decide on monoblocks instead of a 3 or 5ch amp? I've owned the 5000x model briefly. Had to sell it though because I was getting hiss when paired with my AVM70. I've very close to my speakers in my secondary setup, or perhaps I'm just more sensitive than most. I went to a class D Starke amp and now it's dead quiet.

[@GeorgeTheaterAtHome]

I wanted to have dedicated amps for my front stage as those are the most critical speakers. Also, my LCR’s are 4 ohm speakers so I wanted to give them plenty of power.

[@Carl-iw9sy]

Amp upgrades are on my list as well. May I ask how many wall power outlets are you currently using for your system?

[@GeorgeTheaterAtHome]

I run everything thru a surge protection unit. It’s plugged into a dedicated 20 amp circuit.

[@babymaker13th]

What will your avr do now ??

[@GeorgeTheaterAtHome]

I have an Anthem AVM70 processor. It doesn’t have any internal amplification so I have to add external amps for all speakers.

[@babymaker13th]

@@GeorgeTheaterAtHome ohh ok I have the marantz 6014 and I’m looking to get the anthem 5 channel amp and add it to my 2 channel amp for total of 7.2.4

[@bstatmeister]

You think these could drive 2 ohm speakers without issue?

[@GeorgeTheaterAtHome]

Good question. I’m honestly not sure. I’ve never owned 2 ohm speakers. Short of plugging them in and seeing how they do, you may consider contacting Outlaw and ask them if they recommend this amp for 2 ohm speakers. Out of curiosity, do you currently have 2 ohm speakers. If so, which ones?

[@bstatmeister]

@@GeorgeTheaterAtHome I don't have any currently, but Tekton makes a 2 ohm Pendragon and wondering if they would pair well.

[@FURognar]

What class are these? I went to the website but it didn't say.

[@GeorgeTheaterAtHome]

I believe they are Class AB. I did find some info online that indicated they are only class AB for the first 80 watts and then switch to a different rail above that. I haven’t been able to confirm that thru a second source so…grain of salt.

[@tedkay5272]

Class G or H. (AB)

[@kelderek4627]

Your justification for selecting 3 monoblock amps versus a single multi-channel amp, talking about each amp having a dedicated power supply, makes it sound like you think that multi-channel amps are incapable of giving their full rated power to all channels. It is certainly true that for some poorer quality amps that would be true, and it is nearly always the case for the amps integrated in AVRs, but there are plenty of multi-channel amps out there that are able to dish out their full rated power to every channel when all channels are driven, all running off a single power supply. For example, I'm pretty sure the Buckeye 4ch Hypex NC502MP is able to output 500W @ 4 Ohms (or 350W @ 8 Ohms) for all 4 channels and that is only $1125. It's cool if you like monoblocks, and these clearly are working out great for you, but multi-channel amps can work just as well and may end up being cheaper or take up less space, etc.

[@GeorgeTheaterAtHome]

You are correct. There are amps available that are rated for all channels driven. My intention was to highlight specifically my Yamaha amp that I don’t believe is rated for all channels driven (could be mistaken?) and AVR’s in general, which are typically rated at 2 channels driven. I should have been more clear. I’ve had my eye on the Buckeye amps for a couple years and am itching to try them out. They are rated at eye-watering levels and I’m intrigued to see how they perform. They appear to be an exceptional value and have been rated very highly by Amir over at ASR. Thanks for watching!

[@kelderek4627]

@@GeorgeTheaterAtHome I have two of them and will likely get a third later and I have been fully satisfied with them so far. Dylan does a great job and offers great service too. I have the 4ch Hypex NC502MP I mentioned above to drive my LCR, which could use the extra juice at 4 Ohms. I also have the 4ch Hypex NC252MP that I am using for my 4 top Atmos speakers. I believe that one is 150W @ 8 Ohms to all 4 channels. In my 7.2.4 system the side and rear surrounds are still being powered by my AVR for now, but in the future I may get a second 4ch Hypex NC252MP from Buckeye to complete the set and have all of my speakers no longer powered by the AVR. Unless you end up with different speakers with different needs, I doubt you would notice any difference between a Buckeye amp and those new Outlaw monoblocks. But if you need amps for other channels, Buckeye is definitely a solid choice for the price. He uses only Hypex and Purifi modules which are world class for class D amps right now. Buckeye also has options for the rack mount - something you had mentioned wanting from your video.

[@GeorgeTheaterAtHome]

@@kelderek4627 nice! The 502MP Buckeye amp looks like a solid option for driving LCR’s. So much power! I am seriously considering the 252MP for my 4 Height speakers. Sounds like you have a sweet setup. Which AVR are you running?

[@kelderek4627]

@@GeorgeTheaterAtHome I have the Denon X3800H, it is only rated at 105W/ch, 2 channels driven at 8 Ohms and I am running 4 speakers on it right now. I have a pair of Klipsch RP-502S-II for my side surrounds (100W handling and (supposedly) 94db sensitivity, and I also have a pair pf PSA MT-110-SR-M speakers for my rear surrounds that are 175W power handling and 95db sensitive. I wish I could use something other than the Klipsch for my side surrounds, but my room is super narrow at 11.5ft and these work well to give a very wide dispersion - it is probably the biggest compromise in my system. In a perfect world I would try to have more of the PSA speakers (which would also match my LCR - PSA MTM-212-M). I use JBL SCS8 for my Atmos top speakers and they aim down perfectly at my MLP. Their coaxial compression drivers are a decent match to the sound of the PSA speakers which also use CDs, but the Klipsch are dome tweeters so they don't quite match the others in sound. I think I am probably very close to the limits of the AVR amp for driving 4 speakers to reference based on the listening distances in my room, so I would definitely prefer to move those remaining 4 speakers to a separate dedicated amp, like the others in the system. My system is rounded out with two JTR RS1 subs.

[@KenjiEspresso]

Ooooooooo nice 👍

[@texxhexxmm]

😍

[@MasterofPlay7]

Usually more power means less refined sound

[@scottlowell493]

Not an outlaw audio fan. I sed to have an outlaw retro receiver and 975 pre-pro. Cheap parts, cheap sound. Underwhelming.

[@GeorgeTheaterAtHome]

Darn. Nothing about these amps appear or sound cheap. Maybe give outlaw another try?

[@LATENIGHTTALK21]

Oh no. You sold out

[@arielalaniz6057]

Just want to give my 2 cents on upgrading and noticing a positive change. People talk about it being a placebo. If you hear a positive change whether or not it’s a placebo or not, if you’re happy with your purchase, that’s all that matters. It is a good investment. People say expensive cables matter, I don’t agree but if you hear a positive change in sound, you have won. In regards to xlr cables. Objectively there is usually a 3db boost from rca cables. Thanks for your content. Keep up the great work.