Does the Crucifixion Do Anything?

How does Good Friday "work" exactly? Is the Father pouring out His Wrath upon the Son? Or is there a better way of making sense of Calvary?

[@raeldc]

Finally, the most decisive and concise rebuttal of the Penal Substitution Theory I’ve seen. Joe is my most favoritest Catholic Apologist.

[@sheldonspider86]

The only problem is that the New Testament explicitly states that the son both “left” heaven and “returned”, that the father is greater than the son, and that the son became a “curse” for us. The reason 99% of Christians understand it this way is because this is what the Bible clearly teaches. It takes mental gymnastics to interpret these things any other way which is why it took the church over 300 years to do so.

[@marlam8625]

@@sheldonspider86Gal 3:13 is just a way of saying that he redeemed us from the curse meant for us; He bore it all. His visceral physical punishment seems to be a curse. It’s similar way of looking at God’s wrath. It’s not an emotion that He fluctuates in and out of. Wrath is what it feels like to us when we get what we ought- or at times when it’s just a cross to bear like cancer- an opportunity to offer it to the Lord.

[@mikelopez8564]

@@sheldonspider86only Protestants believe penal substitution. So if they ALL subscribe to it, that is only about 25% of Christians

[@Solideogloria00]

@@sheldonspider86actually the majority of Christians did not believe in PSA now or through church history. I’m a Protestant but do not agree with the Calvin’s explanation of the cross for its not Biblical or Historical.

[@patrickvalentino600]

One should be suspicious of any man standing at a podium on a stage and calling it "church".

[@jambangoni]

From someone who converted from this branch of Christianity after suffering some severe spiritual trauma due to following to the logical conclusions, THANK YOU.. andddd please cover this like ten more times so I can get it through my thick skull

[@RandomThoughts77777]

I studied theology in the Gregorian in Rome for three years, but this is a much better explanation than we received there. We could save our dioceses a fortune by just clicking on KZbin to watch this dude instead of sending seminarians to Rome! 😀

[@susand3668]

Good one! 😂

[@jakubratajczak9269]

Brother, this video changed everything for me. I was born and raised catholic, I left the church for ten years, I've been a protestant for almost two years and came back into the Church year ago. I now realize I how deceived I was with these lies, these false doctrines. You've opened my eyes to the love our Lord has for us, and for me specifically. I've been struggling to see that, to understand and receive it. Thanks to you, one layer of lies has been taken away and now my vision is much clearer. God bless you abundantly, your family and ministry also!

[@susand3668]

Dear Fellow Pilgrim, welcome back!! God truly IS good!

[@sovereigndayyouthkafir3943]

Welcome home! It makes me weep and rage that Holy Mother the Church decided in the foolishness of her mortal leaders to move into Vatican II instead of simply bulwarking good catechism into excellent catechism as we see here from Joe. God love you, and God love Joe.

[@SonOfThineHandmaid]

Joe, thank you so much for this. I grew up with Penal Substitutionary Atonement and it always struck me as false at worst, and missing something crucial at best. Over the past few years God has been calling out to me more and more insistently, but the harder I pursued Christ, the harder I was disappointed. And yet he still kept calling me. I feel like you've taken earplugs out of my ears so i can hear his voice clearly for the first time. I really feel like I've heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ for the very first time in my entire life. And the truth has set me free. I don't know if you'll ever read this, but thank you so much Joe, and God bless you. I wish there was a better way for me to express my gratitude, but I praise and thank God for you and your ministry.

[@nathanp.claiborne8276]

I found you through your interview with Pints with Aquinas. Criminally underrated Channel. Glad I found it.

[@gijoe508]

Coming from a calvinist background converting to Catholicism the distorted view of God they taught me caused me a lot of issues with scrupulosity because of their idea of a vengeful God

[@debralittle1341]

Wow wow wow! Ty for this video. I grew up in the Christian Reformed Church so I recognize some of what you said. Calvinist theology yes. I was welcomed into the Catholic Church in 1987. So what's wrong is corrected and I gain so much more. When people are looking into joining the Catholic Church they can't look at everything that's going on. If we look at people we will always be disappointed. Look at Jesus and His Church. It is so pure and rich and no limit to God's grace.

[@franj1142]

Well said

[@JosephHeschmeyer]

I refer to the clip (around 24:00) as R.C. Sproul, but I meant John Piper. Mea culpa!

[@JoshN91]

Hey Joe! I have a Purgatory question cued up for next time you are on Catholic Answers live. 😂 Your books The Early Church was the Catholic Church, and Pope Peter have been a huge help in my discussions with my Protestant friends and family! Appreciate you brother!

[@jambangoni]

Hey joe, I’m a recent convert from Macarthur/Calvin Christianity to RCC..this was really helpful.. do you have any recommendations/readings/spiritual practices to help take this truer understanding from head to heart for someone who was essentially raised under penal substitutionary atonement ideology for years?

[@crushtheserpent]

Mea maxima culpa 😆

[@alonsoACR]

​@@jambangoni Recc for you: "What is Redemption? How Christ's Suffering Saves Us by Philippe de La Trinite"

[@mikelopez8564]

I know Protestants of the Baptist persuasion who look at Jesus’ atoning sacrifice as the scapegoat practice and not the pascal lamb.

[@joshuabenes]

This has been a delight to listen to and has really helped me to understand Jesus sacrifice much better. I've always struggled with the idea of Penal Substitutionary Atonement, and for many of the reasons you listed. My journey from Protestantism and toward the Catholic church continues.

[@jambangoni]

I joined officially a few weeks ago. Not far into it yet obviously but has been a blessing

[@susand3668]

Dear@@jambangoni, welcome home to the Church!! I converted 51 years ago, and I am still learning new wonders and blessings!

[@susanct4378]

Thank you for the Balm of Gilead. I'm so glad to be a Catholic, more than ever. As a protestant I dragged the penal substitutionary theory into my Catholic life. I knew no better. That damnable theory taunted me for decades. I was a very glum believer very often, sad to say. Last year I listened to the Eastern Orthodox view of the Sacrifice on the Cross, and looked into becoming a Byzantine Catholic. Further study changed my mind, so more sad confusion. You have done an enormous service to those of us weighed down by this major protestant error. Thank you. Christianity is now Good News.

[@craigsherman4480]

I am current reading a book, recommended by Dr. Scott Hahn titled “What is Redemption? How Christ’s Suffering Saves Us by Philippe De La Trinite.” So far, I am loving this book and it goes along with what you are talking about.

[@flipflopfantasys1961]

This was great, Joe! As a Catholic you "know" all of this, through liturgy, sacraments, reading, but I find understand the way the old testament - especially when you explained the blood thrown on the people by Moses - fascinating! Thanks and keep up the great work! I'll probably listen to this one a few times. 👍

[@lyndavonkanel8603]

Agreeing. I put this video in my "watch later" list.

[@msakat1]

You are a consummate teacher: thorough, clear, and concise. Wow! I’m hooked.

[@LarryOConnorMedia]

THANK YOU for spending time explaining the CATHOLIC theology of the atonement. Too often all we hear from apologists is that we don't believe in the PENAL part, but we don't get a good explanation of what we DO affirm. You should take a look at the Penal Substitutionary Atonement portion of American Gospel 2. A future reaction or response video of that would be amazing!

[@LarryOConnorMedia]

Would love to see your response to this fascinating interpretation of our Lord's relationship with his mother: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iYnQaHp-l7eqsKM

[@michaeljefferies2444]

Love the work you’re doing here. Showing from the scriptures why Catholic views are right rather than just appealing to authority (Aquinas said…). Well done!

[@theresalilienthal3709]

This was a great explanation. I’ve pondered this without understanding for a long time.

[@drewhansen8540]

Thank you so much for this! I am a recent convert to Catholicism, and this has been a subject I have been trying to understand more firmly. I tried reading books on the subject, but couldn’t find anything helpful. I’ve done some of my own writing on the subject because I couldn’t find the material anywhere. This is clear and concise, and you should make it a book! Most Protestants have no clue what the Catholic view on this is, and there is a need for people like you to proclaim the Catholic view in a clear way.

[@quidam3810]

I totally agree that it should be converted into a book !!!!

[@ozoz2931]

I love the Orthodox understanding of Jesus's birth, life and death as the beginning of the new creation, Thy Kingdom come. Taking on human flesh He restores the creation lost in Adam. I've always had a problem with God NEEDING the crucifixion to forgive us. Thanks so much!

[@joselongo1601]

Do you mean orthodox In the sense of sane doctrine or the orthodox church? For I learn this doctrine in the catholic church.

[@alonsoACR]

​@@joselongo1601The Eastern Orthodox believe the same things they just call it and phrase it differently. This applies to 99.99% of stuff

[@joselongo1601]

@@alonsoACR pero ozoz2931 pareció decir lo contrario.

[@sarahmilesi4922]

I love the way you present your material...so easy to understand and follow. Thank you!!

[@Gerschwin]

Shameless Potpourri is my new favourite!!!! Keep em coming.

[@doranthe3rd]

This is such a fantastic explanation. I had listened to protestant preachers explain penal substitution and something always seemed off. Thank you for this BEAUTIFUL explanation and lesson. This makes me feel proud to be Catholic.

[@allisonsmith5449]

This is a great unpacking of .why the cross. and all it reveals and means. Thank you Joe. I want to be able to go back through what you have talked about and distill it down to something I can speak about confidently.

[@derrick7442]

Thank you so much for such an in-depth look into the cross and salvation through Christ.

[@rachelwilson2487]

I wish I could thumb this up infinitely many times. Such an excellent episode. Thank you Joe.

[@JoshN91]

So excited to dive into this one. Penal substitutionary atonement is something I have been wanting to dive into for a few weeks now. Thanks Joe!

[@johnmendez3028]

Excellent episode! Thank you Joel!

[@SueOnEaglesWings]

Thank, Joe! Excellent. Saved it to watch it again

[@IzakD8]

So happy you've got a podcast now Joe. Really enjoying the content.

[@ToddJambon]

Wow! This one's a marathon. You could probably have milked 3 episodes out of this one! Great content, though.

[@TruthHasSpoken]

Had a protestant tell me a few weeks ago, *"Peter didn't know the meaning of the cross."* A shocking statement. He was having a hard time reconciling 1 Pet 3: 21 with his baptismal theology.

[@Onlyafool172]

Typical, sola scriptura gets thrown away when it doesnt fit their theology, i am shocked, it makes sense why james and hebrews were almost thrown out of the bible by luther, litterraly contradicts sola fide

[@rivereuphrates8103]

Quickly becoming one of my most listened to shows. Thank you so much for going deep into the "mechanism" of the Cross and salvation. Also at the risk of being uncharitable, John MacArthur seems like a deeply angry guy, which may explain his theology.

[@lucillemasters6791]

Great teaching, makes so much sense. Thank you

[@IM-tl7qv]

I want to see Cy introduce you as the host of Shameless Potpourri next time you're on Catholic Answers live.

[@marlam8625]

My new favorite channel! 👏🏻 great job! As an aside, homilies are in the mass and connect the readings with the gospel. Protestants have sermons; lessons on whatever they want to talk about.

[@billymimnaugh3998]

Ridiculous .The homilies at the Catholic Church are monotone , stupidity by pathetic “preachers “ that sound like it was written by a ten year old .

[@jeanw9160]

Thanks again Joe for your always clear and concise teachings and for doing the hard work for us!! ❤ Best podcast ever!!

[@EW-go1xw]

This video was very helpful. Thank you!

[@megtim]

Really enjoyed this episode Joe!! I’ve been seeing a lot of Calvinist/Reformed things lately so would you consider doing an episode on refuting the Calvinist view of free will?

[@michaeldeltz8229]

Great explanation! Thank you Joe!

[@andrewpearson1903]

It’s striking to see medieval affective piety alive and well in Sproul and MacArthur’s sermons. American "reformed" Protestants are trying to stir up the same emotions in the listener, with their words alone, that a twelfth-century devotional book or a Spanish penitential procession would have. Very good presentation.

[@deepusnttf432]

Praise God. Eye opener from God to me. I feel he did spoke to me through this video. Indeed he did. May God use you more and more for his kingdom. God bless ❤

[@braunerClan]

This is my favorite (so far) of your podcasts. I knew penal substitution was wrong, but I could not figure out the right explanation. Thanks for exploring and sharing these Catholic truths.

[@Vision-uf5mm]

Thank you. I pray more will listen 🙏🏽✝️🙏🏽

[@halleylujah247]

I have been watching several of your shows and I am enjoying them! Do you have a Patreon or locals? You should get one if not. I suggest locals people will support you. Also do you do interviews?

[@ericson5913]

No no not long enough episode. Awesome episode thank you Gid bless.

[@w.Raphael]

Great video. Thank you very much Joe! God bless you.

[@IRISHBee4]

Definitely going to use this in my Bible study tomorrow.

[@AllanKoayTC]

John McArthur is consistently spewing errors. he's one of the worst Biblical scholars i've ever encountered, apart from one of the most anti-Catholic. so glad for your rebuttals and explanations to counter his erroneous teachings. (and good to see the increase in text size!)

[@serpentsepia6638]

At 14:33 This is where Protestants get the Bible wrong, not only at this specific part but all throughout the Bible. The verse isn't meant to be taken literal. God never forsakes Jesus, and Jesus isn't asking, why? "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?" is the first line in Psalm 22. The first line in the Psalm is the title, just like the first line in the Our Father is "Our Father". And the first line in the Hail Mary is "Hail Mary". What Jesus is doing is part of his Hebrew culture, it's a part of his upbringing. Jesus is reciting Psalm 22. Unfortunately, Protestants take everything in the Bible literally and are completely ignorant of the culture and context. *History and context. In the most general sense, Psalm 22 is about a person who is crying out to God to save him from the taunts and torments of his enemies, and (in the last ten verses) thanking God for rescuing him.*

[@heidigabalski6335]

Thank you Joe ❤ this was very helpful 🙏

[@elbertlyon8495]

Thank you for this! Tremendously informative! God bless you!

[@borquelepork1057]

I remember many years ago hearing how the "Father toke out his wrath on Jesus" and felt so repugnant at that idea. Thanks for this great explanation of our beautiful Catholic view of Jesus sin offering on the cross. Thank you.

[@DeanHiltonYoung]

Thank you so much for this podcast. It has been life-changing for me. God bless you.

[@francishaight2062]

Beautiful! Thanks for taking the time here, Joe! Given this excellent and unhurried unpacking, how can we fail to fall in love with our Lord all over again? So it is that His sacrifice out of divine love is this beginning and end of history and shows us the path to Heaven. Amen.

[@doubled5159]

Really great stuff!

[@GloriaJesu]

This has been my favorite episode so far. I watched it twice!

[@johnpauljeevan5769]

That was Amazing. Thank You

[@chintagada1]

Excellent 👌👌👏👏🌹🌹

[@terrynboucher3219]

This was the best explanation of this topic that I have ever heard! ❤

[@HumanDignity10]

Excellent, thank you!

[@shra0013]

Soooo good, Joe!! Thank you brother! 👏👏👏

[@ericclark2158]

Thanks so much, Joe! This is such a solid summary. This needs to be on your short list of podcats to bookify. I would give this to beloved Calvinist friends.

[@Sharkman1963]

Dr. Scott Hahn does a wonderful job explaining the connection between the Last Supper and the Crucifixion in his video "The Fourth Cup": kzbin.info/www/bejne/rGLccqmoi9SMsNE And the late Father Richard John Neuhaus' ruminations on the Crucifixion in his excellent book "Death on a Friday Afternoon" are esse Tualatin reading. I highly recommend both.

[@PuzzlesC4M]

This is so good! ‼️

[@jimnewl]

St. Athanasius answered this many, many centuries ago. Read "On the Incarnation."

[@pattyserrano9339]

I didnt even know i understood this the wrong way, thanks for the video Joe!

[@carlingtonme]

Yes it was long and very edifying.....very well done

[@user-uc1yb7hy2n]

I like Christus Victor theory myself. Good video

[@scottmaag7650]

Very well done !

[@kellyedington8716]

How dare you apologize. We came to you for this. This is part of your offering. ✌️❤️‍🔥✝️

[@michaeljefferies2444]

I think reformed thinkers usually reject the communication of idioms. That would explain why they don’t see the trinitarian problems.

[@kurzantema]

Now I understand! Thank you! It was long but it needed to be. Hats off for bringing opposite views without strawmaning

[@djo-dji6018]

Excellent.

[@jattebaleyos116]

Hello Joe, I noticed while listening to one of Ven. Fulton Sheen's talks that he held a view of the atonement that included some aspects of penal substitution along with the Catholic view. Is it acceptable for a Catholic to believe in some concepts of penal substitution in their understanding of the atonement?

[@tookie36]

25:55 "You stole fizzy lifting drinks! You bumped into the ceiling which now has to be washed and sterilized, so you get nothing! You lose!"

[@kimberlywilliams7578]

Thank you, Joe. At 23:56, and again at 27:27, the commentary you attributed to RC Sproul is actually John Piper, not Sproul.

[@jonathanellis5811]

41:47 is when he starts describing what IS a proper view of the cross

[@s37erasmus]

This is absolutely brilliant work! Well done. A number of years ago I was trying to refute an author who was sympathetic to Christus Victor who was trying to blame PSA on St. Anselm and Aquinas. This presentation would have come in really handy. What would you say, however, to Reformed who bring up proof texts like Gal 3:13 (cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree) and Isaiah 53:5 (he was wounded for our transgressions, bruised for our iniquities)?

[@polodown4729]

Awesome video

[@BrianGondo]

Hi Joe, does Isaiah 53 especially v10 add credence to the idea of 'the Father pouring out His Wrath upon the Son?' or the penal substitution model?

[@timcapes5000]

Thanks, Joe; I really enjoyed listening to this teaching. Could you go into more detail about how Jesus, as the Lamb of God, takes away the sin of the world? I think St Peter describes it as bearing our sins in his own body on the tree (1 Peter 2:24) - this is something that seems difficult to understand. How can sins be taken away or borne?

[@RejiThomas1]

Thanks

[@jakejordan9466]

*** Joe, Do you have a link to Fr. White's article or a name of it??

[@Moranimal23]

Subscribed

[@billpletikapich5640]

Joe, you did a great job organizing this material. McArthur and Sproul's theories on penal substitution are wrong in so may ways. The more they try to explain, the worse it gets. Their stories just don't sound plausible - maybe something a Jr. HS kid would come up with if he didn't pay attention in class or read the material. I certainly can't imagine someone with Philosophy or Psychology classes believing this view.

[@grantlauinger8663]

This is probably the best explanation and refutation of penal substitution that I've heard. However, I would be interested in hearing how you understand the typology between the Abraham and Isaac story and the crucifixion because there does seem to be a clear link. Also, how to properly understand the "wrath" of God. Is it simply the Father's discipline of His children or something more?

[@andrewscotteames4718]

As a Texas Tech Red Raider, you almost converted me on the spot with the Mahomes reference 😂 I’ve been a Chiefs fan because of him ever since y’all drafted him. I like the episode, I’ve been a Christus Victor guy myself for a few years after rejecting PSA as logically incoherent and morally offensive.

[@andrewscotteames4718]

Also, I would point out that the idea of what makes the sacrifice necessary is underdeveloped in this video. You touched on it, but did not fully flesh it out. He redeems humanity by taking on and perfecting human nature. The cross plays a role in this perfection as it shows extreme obedience, but it’s primarily the vehicle for shedding his blood, which gets applied to us through the Eucharist. We who eat the sacrifice are then both joined to the cross and then ontologically transformed into what we consumed (you are what you eat) by transmutation, as St Justin Martyr puts it. Anyway, excellent episode. It makes me feel much better to know that I am not the only one who picked up on the inadequacy and lunacy of PSA.

[@awuriefnejqwjmnwn4960]

I wonder what Christian tradition you are a Part of that you reject Penal Substitutionary Atonement without being Catholic. Are you Orthodox? I am confused. I always thought that PSA and Protestantism go hand in hand

[@andrewscotteames4718]

@@awuriefnejqwjmnwn4960I am a Lutheran

[@susand3668]

Dear@@awuriefnejqwjmnwn4960, naw, Protestants are all over the place! They have no one, single cogent theology! The only unifying factor in their beliefs is that the Catholic Church is Wrong.

[@nathankimball1545]

I’m confused on the section where John Piper is shown but Joe says “Sproul” in reference to R.C. Sproul. Is this referring to John Piper using R.C. Sproul’s arguments or is this just an honest mistake by Joe -calling John Piper the wrong name?

[@frederickanderson1860]

You overlook Gethsemane without that crucial event no Calvary.

[@duckgrow]

I had never heard this view before, growing up on penal substitution. I have to seriously think this over.

[@crookedinapot8980]

How do you get around Isaiah 53:10 where it states that it pleased the Lord to crush him.

[@kylej.reeves4268]

Just a quick note, at 24:30 in the video, that is not RC Sproul, that is John Piper.

[@nowski1]

Hello I enjoy ypur videos but have one suggestion. Perhaps you can work on different fonts for your text. They can be hard to read and a little small for the amount on it when you have quotes or scriptures. Also when you bold some words or verses its can be hard to notice that it's actually bolded and etc. Small critique but I think it would be better for your audience with an easier to see and distinguish. Keep doing what you're doing and God bless

[@trueblessing5096]

that is a really good explanation! but i have a question "He who did not *SPARE* his own Son, but gave him up for us all-how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies" (Rom 8:32-33) *How do we explain this? what does it mean he didn't spare his Son? in light of this specific explanation?* thanks

[@danielscalera6057]

How about GK Chesterton's meditation on Jesus' cry from the cross in Orthodoxy?

[@DavidSupina]

Enjoying the video, but just a quick reminder that a talk preached at a Protestant sermon is typically referred to as a sermon rather than a homily.

[@charleswinters1827]

Herbert W Armstrong was the guy who twisted toward a Wednesday crucifixion.

[@djo-dji6018]

May God have mercy of all those Reformed apologists for their stubborn mistakes.

[@johnf6002]

I can certainly see the difference between the Aztecs and the Cross, but what is the difference between the Aztecs and the Mosaic sacrifice other than degrees of suffering?

[@addelrosario9839]

Great explanation. Just one question. Since it was a self sacrifice. And since it was His Will, does that exonerate the Jews and the Romans? They could not have done the crucifixion if He didn't allow it?

[@JosephHeschmeyer]

Good question. No, the fact that God makes use of our evil actions (for His own good purposes) doesn't make our actions not evil. As Joseph said in the Old Testament, "As for you, you meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today" (Gen. 50:20).