Does The Honda Pilot’s New AWD System Work as Advertised?

[@chebsas1]

When you guys have the 2019 RAV4 Adventure would you please test it on the rollers. I would love to see how it performs!

[@JustAnAznDude]

Gus Bandera I second this!

[@mr.kwamid-86_43]

ME TOO!!

[@mjfamgo6563]

Yes please. Also highlander

[@nehlstay]

The Toyota/Lexus electric only rear axle on the mild hybrids and any all electric awd cars (ie Tesla) will not torque to the side as there will be no prop shaft giving unwanted lateral torque.

[@AntJoseph_]

I'm curious as well

[@MDKN22]

I'm glad you guys started doing this test. It really shows how great 4WD/AWD systems are. I cant wait to see more videos! Also love you guys trying it in the different modes. Excellent video!

[@hermanjohnson9180]

4WD is actually an umbrella term. It's either 4X4 or AWD.

[@hermanjohnson9180]

@Saltybutt sweet Most systems respond in milliseconds.

[@hermanjohnson9180]

@Saltybutt sweet In most cases this Honda pilot had no trouble with any slipping. In most cases it was *zero seconds* . Why criticize ? Why get a Subie then? Might as well get the real deal. Get a 4X4. An AWD system is generally inferior to it. It amuses me that you try to act superior then talk about a damn Subaru. 😂

[@hermanjohnson9180]

@Saltybutt sweet You said so many things things that were incorrect that we can't really talk about this anymore. You're Subaru advertisement. 😂

[@tomwalma4762]

@@hermanjohnson9180 older quattro or subaru stick shift 50/50 version of power distribution; rally tested... it sucks though, they stopped racing as factory teams years ago...

[@ermangus]

It seems the test would be much better if the ramps were anchored in place.

[@erik1514]

Anchored and also wider as the vehicle tends to move side to side and grab the edge of the roller frame to gain grip. But this is a decent test nonetheless.

[@piciu256]

anchored would be hard to do, thru would need to build a rig because every car is different, and it would be a pita to change the orientation. I don't think they go for such a professional test just yet- look where Tha car is standing ;)

[@chrisak49]

Dave Pawson They aren’t professional

[@piciu256]

@@chrisak49 yeah, they are so professional they test cars on a loading dock 2" from crashing into the wall lol

[@DavidFarina]

You need a new location. The loading ramp is really an accident waiting to happen. Plus I see a lot of stuff flying all over. The equipment needs to stop moving. Add some rubber under the rollers to help them stay in place. Go to a hill somewhere else. You live in Colorado. "real world testing" is what you are all about... So, let's see a real world location... Far away from those rubber bumpers

[@piciu256]

I think a more practical test would be not to back off onto the rollers, but instead climb up onto the rollers and see how the car behaves, aka how fast, and if it reacts well enough to ride over them.

[@ikeo8666]

frankly it seems like a poor spot to attempt this sort of thing and he should be climbing on the rollers not backing on them like you said

[@peyn]

I assume this is just for the uphill portion? Regardless, if there’s any momentum, that would affect the test and people would be commenting about how the momentum was different from one car to another lol.

[@kennethschoen7796]

@@peyn doesnt need momentum. Drive onto them going forward, then stop and do the test

[@EvLSpectre]

@@kennethschoen7796 So......exactly like what is going on here?

[@kennethschoen7796]

@@EvLSpectre No. Hes backing onto the ramps towards the bottom of the ramp. You didnt watch the video?

[@ChummyChime]

The AWD of honda is actually better than the Toyota. I have that pilot now and will trade it for the passport in a year or two.

[@RobHTech]

I agree, it's better than Toyota's fake AWD, oops I mean 4WD, well whatever Toyota wants the public to believe. I got my Pilot stuck in the snow with this system. I had to lock the diff. and then it was still stuck. only 1 wheel had traction. Once I did get out, the ECU is too slow to cut the clutch lock and it literally destroyed the rear diff. Luckily, Honda covered it under warranty, since it cost about $6,500 to fix it. Damn. Too bad I didn't buy xDrive or Quattro.

[@tonychau1983]

@@RobHTech what you have for tires

[@RobHTech]

@@tonychau1983 I had to OEM Michelin all seasons on it. I upgraded to AT tires after that. Still, the rear diff basically exploded. In the meantime, with my '03 RAV4, which is 4WD without driver control--full-time 4WD--I have never gotten stuck, even in a blizzard in 2.5-3 feet of snow. I have numerous times purposely tried to get the RAV4 stuck, and never does.

[@HondaProJason]

Very interesting video! thanks for creating it

[@mct8888]

Can't you find an incline that isn't putting the car at risk? I mean, isn't someone's driveway available?

[@rcDoom]

The SUV was not at risk...

[@jaysson1151]

old sylveste_r were you not paying attention? The vehicle was only a few feet away from backing into the loading dock.

[@AgentSmith911]

11:34 really close there

[@zorantordinac]

What's it matter its not your car😂😂

[@paulgbest]

Your roller test should be done with 4 blocks of rollers. Each roller block should have locking rollers. This way you can keep the car wheels all at the same height to prevent lean/traction issues. Lock the rollers you want traction on :). Hope this helps!

[@bigpoppa1992]

Now I wanna see how the crv does.

[@hermanjohnson9180]

Me too

[@JDMHaze]

lol

[@vadimnesen8060]

It doesn't .. Do

[@vadimnesen8060]

Xilent well not as agressive. Its all about how its programmed

[@bigpoppa1992]

I would think the CVT in the crv would interfere alot when it comes to wheel spin and maybe lack of power and tq.

[@YuriyMotso]

In KZbin search, independent awd hill test, and build a ramp that has guides that keeps the vehicle inside on the rollers at all times. It’s an extremely easy build that could be made inexpensively. This is what you guys should do so that all your tests are equal with zero bias. Will heavily boost your views if you have this made.

[@jg8263]

I own the 2017 Ridgeline with this system, and it is shockingly good in mud, snow, and loose gravel. Full disclosure, I did put Falken Wildpeak AT3W tires on that are an inch taller than the factory tires, as the OEM Firestone Destination LE2 tires are only as good as paperweights in any condition/surface. But this system truly delivers traction in situations where I have seen other systems fail. The torque vectoring also kicks in if you goose the throttle in tight cornering to overdrive the outside tires and rotate the vehicle, which is wild to feel. That sand mode is no joke either. It aggressively changes the electronic throttle map, such that the thing revs to the 4500 RPM cut in for VTEC when you barely touch the throttle. It also puts 70% of the power to the rear and "locks" the rear clutches to keep the left to right vectoring minimized. My father was surprised when I took my Ridgeline down the same muddy forest service roads and abandoned narrow gauge railroad paths in northern Wisconsin that he took his Silverado down and I never got stuck (again credit where it is due, I doubt I could have done so on the stock Firestones, so great tires plus great AWD system makes a surprisingly versatile vehicle). I learned to drive with my dad down those same roads and trails in his 94 Chevy, and I never would have imagined that any AWD vehicle would have stood a chance down them back in those days. How far the tech has come.

[@denisleblanc4506]

Your problem with the 3 rollers test is the height of the rollers. Effectively you're unloading the tire that stays on the pavement. Consequently it has less traction. Remember, independent suspensions like these don't have very much travel (except maybe Land Rover products) and it doesn't take much to unload a tire. As a test, you could jack up one end of the vehicle and see how much droop is available. Maybe put a scale under the wheel and see how fast the registered weight goes down as you lift the vehicle. What I suggest is having the tire with traction ride up on a stationary plate the same size and height as your roller setups. Maybe those concrete patio blocks with a rubber pad underneath so the patio block can't slip?I just think the concrete on pavement wouldn't provide enough grip and would just shoot out the back. Another fix would be to fabricate a fourth plate but instead of rollers, bolt a diamond plate on top. Just make sure the surface has similar traction as pavement.

[@GIGABACHI]

"...Your problem with the 3 rollers test is the height of the rollers. Effectively you're unloading the tire that stays on the pavement. Consequently it has less traction..." Good observation and probably on the money.

[@teovm]

Yep it is true. Also wider rollers, But on the other hand slipping from them will be the same as slipping in real word (Check out the Tundra TRD vs RAM Video, how the Tundra slipped in a real life situation). But still wider rollers will help. With this cargo slip road is very very dangerous, you just need another rig. It will be hard to find but my god someday you will endup there in a second. Hope to post it here, it might cover the expenses.

[@luchaDor]

Should an SUV not be able to maintain traction with what, 1.5" of suspension flex? I understand the theory of your comment, but we're not all driving around on perfectly flat pavement all the time with ideal traction. Some of us live where we're in a deep freeze for 4-6 mos. out of the year, so to me this simulates very real world conditions. (Stuck at a stop light, uphill in icy conditions, for example, is part of my daily commute.) Is it a tough test? Absolutely...but there are vehicles that would pass this test. Its a good demonstration IMO.

[@denisleblanc4506]

@@luchaDor I didn't say it was a bad test. I was simply trying to answer the question at the end of the video. I live where you can expect deep freeze for 6 months. I also have over 40 years experience driving off-road with vehicles with solid axles, independent suspensions and combinations of both. I've seen some with as little as 1.5 inches of droop when you raised them with a jack. So effectively, it would have almost no pressure on the ground if you raised the other wheels 2 inches. That's why it slipped of the rollers backwards trying the first three roller test on the loading ramp. The tire didn't have enough traction to stop the vehicle. I plainly couldn't be asked to climb the ramp without the needed traction. Yes, two diagonal wheels will be compressed more, but remember the vehicle has to drive up on three rollers as it starts to move forward. So it would help if there wasn't an empty space on the roller plates to center the tires on the roller plates. I don't know what kind of roads you drive on where you live, but here, you rarely see two inch deep holes in the winter at intersections unless you have serious snowpack that's been broken through in spots and yes when that happens I've seen many different vehicles getting stuck even in parking lots when the tires fell in those holes. But when the tires are on level surfaces they don't get stuck very often do they?

[@peglor]

Those rollers are a lot more than 1.5" high.

[@RagingAura]

This is one of the most comprehensive tests of AWD systems that any channel does on KZbin (or the internet in general!). So I'll gladly say that I really like your channel and have subscribed. Now I wanted to make a few points. For starters, this is a very demanding and difficult test. Even my 4wd Xterra (no lockers, rear solid axle) would struggle with this. Being able to propel your vehicle forward with traction on only 1 wheel is the holy grail of off road capability, so when the day comes that an AWD crossover is able to do what traditional 4WD strives to achieve is the day when AWD takes the cake. When an axle with an open differential has one wheel spin, the differential will route all horsepower and torque to the spinning wheel, resulting mainly in a rapidly spinning wheel (kinetic energy) and friction (thermal energy). A differential locker will lock both sides of an axle, and make both wheels rotate at the same speed. This allows all torque (and most of the horsepower, as technically the spinning wheel still takes some energy to rotate) to be directed to the wheel with traction. You can mitigate the loss of power to the wheel that has traction by applying some sort of stopping force to the spinning wheel, such as the disc brake, parking brake, or a limited slip differential. This will lower overall horsepower due to friction, but will allow a torque equivalent to the braking force to be applied to the wheel with traction. This concept is key to figuring out how AWD systems get you unstuck when 3 out of 4 wheels have no traction. A traditional 4WD system with front and rear differential lockers and either a transfer case or a locking center differential can apply 100% of engine horsepower (minus a significant chunk to increased friction due to more moving parts) to a single wheel that has traction. Thus, such a vehicle can, with enough torque and low enough gearing, inch its way up a steep incline with only 1 wheel with traction. Many non offroad-vehicles end up spinning the one wheel with traction because their gearing is not low enough and too much power is applied to the wheel, while traditional 4WD vehicles have additional reduction gearing in their transfer cases, torque converters (if automatic), and differentials to allow them to slowly crawl up obstacles at idle or light throttle. Most vehicles equipped with AWD, such as crossovers, coupes, and sedans, do not have transfer cases or differential lockers. Most have open differentials (some RWD cars have limited slip rear differentials to enable drifting). Thus the power loss mitigation is done with activation of the disc brakes through the ABS; this is generally labeled traction control. In the 1 wheel with traction example, the 3 spinning wheels will have disc brakes applied to the 3 spinning wheels but not the one with traction. However, due to all the braking, this generally ends up cutting the power output to the 1 wheel with traction by a significant amount. Old school CRVs with part time AWD could only transmit about 10% effective horsepower to a rear wheel with traction partly due to this. It's impossible to reach the near 100% power output at the wheel with traction that traditional 4WD with front and rear differential lockers can achieve. Recently there has been a suite of upgrades to traction control that gives the vehicle computer options to manage spinning wheels. Traction control traditionally relied entirely on applying brakes to spinning wheels. Vehicle Dynamic Control (or electronic stability control) will apply brakes and reduce throttle as deemed necessary by the vehicle computer to bring vehicle movement inline with the steering wheel direction in order to reduce understeer and oversteer. Thus, in many of your AWD tests, you will notice the throttle being reduced when your tires spin, and you either need to disable VDC/ESC or change to something line X-mode or Sand mode to stop throttle reduction. Even newer AWD systems with electronic controls in their differentials can vary the amount of power transmitted to each axle and wheel to change vehicle direction through torque vectoring, not just with braking. Finally, we need to address the traction of the lone wheel. There are several factors in play. I know you guys have mentioned in the past that you wish to evaluate vehicles as outfitted by the manufacturer, including stock tires. I think this is very reasonable, as I don't think most buyers will immediately replace factory tires with new ones for better 1 wheel traction. All-seasons generally have better road traction compared to snow and all terrains, so sticking with factory all-seasons is a good choice in this particular test. However, due to the suspension design, the wheel with traction will not have as much of the vehicle's load, which decreases traction. Solid axles have greater suspension travel, and are able to transmit enough of the vehicle weight to the ground to maintain good grip. However, vehicles like the one above have independent rear and front suspensions, which have reduced travel. Thus, when 3 wheels are raised off the ground, the 1 wheel with traction will have reduced load on it, and this reduced traction (traction being the maximal force of friction the tire can generate with the ground, being a function of the friction coefficient and the normal force, i.e. load on the tire). Thus i recommend placing the 4th wheel on a raised surface that has good traction, such as a concrete block. Finally, I must warn against using any of the front wheels for the 1 wheel traction test. The front wheels must turn for steering, and thus have something called constant velocity joints. They are necessary to give constant velocity at a variety of turn angles. CV joints are fragile and expensive, and are often broken when a shock load is applied, which is the case when a front wheel is the only wheel with traction. This is enough of a problem that traditional 4WD vehicles with front differential lockers can end up demolishing CV joints when only a front tire has traction. Rear wheels do not turn in and out like front wheels and thus do not have CV joints, thus making them a safer choice for this test. Overall I really like this video series that attempts to take 4WD and AWD to their limits. I hope you expand this program to include all sorts of vehicles, such as trucks with 4WD and diff lockers, SUVs, crossovers, and even sports cars with AWD, as this is a useful feature for people who may find themselves suddenly in patches of mud, snow, gravel, black ice, or beach sand, all of which are common scenarios across the USA.

[@TheSrikanp]

Thank you for this. Looking into the passport and good to see that this ivtm4 system is robust in the Honda. Really surprised it did this well.

[@chriscordova7490]

I’d say in any test, once you’re on remove the rubber ramps. That may be just enough traction to budge it and get momentum? In the slow mode you can see that all three wheels grip the rubber ramp and force the rollers to sling back. With ramps removed the tire can pivot over the front roller while still simulating a slip.

[@atmartens]

If I’m not mistaken, Honda’s Pilot and Ridgeline has the same as Acura’s Super Handling AWD. They don’t call it that because they want the brands separated. However the CR-V has a totally different AWD system.

[@MidnightAspec]

alex martens They’re very similar but it’s my understanding that the Acura system is designed for handling performance than terrain management (so to speak). Hence, SH-AWD’s ability to rotate the MDX/TLX in corners, mitigating understeer.

[@atmartens]

F23A4 Accord I’ve heard this. I just wish someone would discuss it and explain it for sure. It makes sense that Acura would have that.

[@TheMotorPsych]

Awesome; love the slip tests videos you make. I think your test should be made mandatory testing on all cars whose manufacturers declare them as AWD or 4WD. And the results should be made public; something similar to SHARP helmet safety rating system. Regarding what to change in the ramp slip test - would an incline road without a an obstruction like the rubber guards close back help? Please continue to make these videos for whichever car is AWD/4WD.

[@kartboarder22g17]

Guys, I think you need to build a ramp. What I would do here is build a ramp device and fill it with concrete. Then have a hydraulic jack to change the angle. Also this will help you avoid sliding backwards into a wall. You also need to always be checking with only 1 rear tire with traction and only 1 front tire with traction. Because in this vehicle you have an open diff. up front and a multidisc clutch on each axel in the rear. So front requires braking traction control to move the vehicle and in the rear it is just activating the multiplate clutch for the slipping wheel to move the one tire. I suppose I could build you the ramp and give you a quote if you want....

[@GGMan]

You can purchase car rollers with side bars, to top the wheels from coming off roller. Honda AWD system, has come a long way and was vey impressed by it and well done to you for not giving up.

[@sjay149]

I agree with you, the uphill test succeeded because the spinning tire grabbed the edge of the roller frame. Was the Honda Pilot the only AWD vehicle that you've tested? Have any other "non-pickup truck/part-time AWD" vehicles performed as well as this Pilot?

[@tareed1969]

Just out of curiosity - which mode is the most aggressive mode? That wasn't clear in your video.

[@mccylk4441]

I think this set up is accurate and more real world conditions. Think about your home is uphill and you are trying get into your driveway, your 3 tires up into driveway one is into the dip between road and driveway. But you guys really consider find a more safe space may be wider ramp. Guided ramps will be safe sure but will limit real world situation, there are no rails hold your tires at road. At last I would like to see how WV Atlas will do this test. Thanks again bringing all these tests.

[@michaelwells2397]

Need a fourth solid ramp no rollers to level the vehicle when backing down. Not enough weight over the only wheel with traction do to suspension extended. Hindering both stopping and starting. Also probably increases side movement when trying to drive off. Can see front right tire locked up when backing on to the three rollers and I would bet rear was the same. Great videos keep up the great work!

[@markhawkins6276]

I would like to see this test on a conventional 4WD system with open diffs vs limited slip vs locker. I've seen videos like this from companies selling lockers but not from a site like yours that has an objective opinion. Of course a lot of people have already suggested how to make your test better but how much do you have to spend? I think you're doing some good stuff here!

[@christopherholbrook6504]

You guys should do this test on every AWD and 4WD equipped vehicle that you guys drive. I think this is one of the best and easiest ways to really test how good it’ll off road other then ground clearance. Also try using wheel chocks behind the vehicle on the hill test.

[@jzwolak]

Nice job! For the one wheel down on the ramp test... you could try building a track similar to those at an automated carwash. Instead of attaching the track to the ground, attach it to the rollers opposite it. This would certainly be some work and it would need to be adjustable for the track width of the car. But as the car slides the rollers would move with it. The front may still slide and grab the frame of the rollers. Another idea would be to put a one sided track with an adjustable stopper between the wall of the ramp and the passenger side rear wheel. Again, same as a car wash... keeps the car "on track". I would guess the car would always slip outside, so it's only necessary to have one side blocked. I get this would be a bit of work. Not sure it's something you want to do or not. Or if there are problems with the idea that make it infeasible. But there it is. An idea :-)

[@jamessegura5559]

I think you should have driven more attention to the camera pointing at the rear passenger tire when doing the 3 wheel ramp attempt. You can see at 13:23 clearly the wheel has enough torque to spin the rubber on the asphalt which means the truck is effectively putting power on the ground on the wheel with traction, and this is exactly what we need to see, good job Honda you had come a long way

[@bundy1800]

I agree with your assessment that the testing method itself is the issue.. 1stly when you raise the pilot by 3 sets of rollers by approx. 4" the wheel that touches the pavement isn't fully down on the pavement. The suspension is now in an extended position which means the tire that contacts the ground doesn't have normal weight upon it. I would suggest the tire that contacts the ground be on a raised patch of pavement so that the weight upon that tire is not unsprung then all would be equal. I see this as a large part of the issue you are experiencing. Or perhaps the roller pads that you use need to be flush with the pavement so the contacting tires are not unsprung. This would definitely change the outcome. Great work though, it's obvious the pilot's ITVM works quite well from what can be seen. Thanks for sharing this.

[@GotterAdventure]

The VTM-4 system in my 2007 Honda Pilot is awesome off-road. I bet this Pilot would be awesome off-road too with a 2” lift, all terrain tires, and sway bar disconnects.

[@hangngoaigiare]

Thanks a lot for your effort. You need to anchor down those rollers. Moreover I would say yes the pilot traction did work when all three wheels on rollers. The vehicle will Swerve left or right and finally make it is just normal because only one wheel apply the force. The whole vehicle has to Swerve not go in straight line. Very impressive Honda.

[@anthonyhartman4137]

A lot of folks will be interested in which mode does best for a boat ramp where grip is only at front wheels due to slime at rear wheels. This video helped me to understand that I probably want to use sand mode in this case as it has the most aggressive transfer of power to non slipping wheel. Thanks.

[@KrestonLee]

Tire chocks and a way to bolt rollers in place may help?

[@nehlstay]

On the inclined 3 wheel test where the right rear is the wheel with traction. The rear wheel with traction should be backed onto an anchored plate (or whatever you choose to use). This anchor should include a block/wheel chock both on the rear so the vehicle cannot roll back and the side so that the rear wheels cannot torque sideways (the vehicle will always torque to the way the prop shaft spins).

[@georgekongalath7544]

Should have displayed the torque to each wheel on the display. That would show the distribution of the force. Complimenting the video

[@cascivic]

Tommy if you have a few rollers left over .. have them welded on the sides (90 degrees to the bottom ones) and up on some flat stock steel. When. The vehicle started to crab that will hold it in and won't rub the sidewalls of the tires too bad since they will spin

[@MrNismopro]

Hey TFL. I think you need to remove one more roller out of your roller pads. That would simulate a little better of slip. I don’t think you’d have to do the incline check because the further the tire drops into the pad system the tougher it makes It to get out. IMO. Oh, and if you’re hiring I’d love to do vehicle testing with you guys... lol.

[@PerformanceReviews]

I'd like to see some sort of test at a higher speed since Hondas are notorious for turning off 4 wheel drive around 28 miles an hour. quite often the speedometer is an accurate due to wheel slip in bad conditions so let's see a test during a good Colorado snow. At 45-60 MPH

[@puffnstuff12]

You guys should build a permanent test ramp for your test that won't shift during testing. Another channel is using one for their awd testing.

[@jrhunt414]

I can see people in Maine using the snow mode when they really need the sand mode in deep snow. Unfortunately sand mode still breaks static friction on the front before it applies force to the rear which is dangerous at speed in the snow. Yes you will get out of your driveway but when passing or going uphill in snow there should be a mode that keeps the rear engaged regardless of if the front slips because engaging the rear will keep the front from slipping and maintaining static friction on each tire.

[@wezzymininasolis9015]

I just went tru a snow storm East Tennessee, my pilot didn’t disappointed me

[@MtnXfreeride]

Is a car with full time AWD he safer since it doesnt have that delay to get the rear wheels going? Seems like it would prevent loss from happening in the first place on an incline or slippery corner.

[@eleticet9762]

Thanks for the demo bro. I would love to see the old honda pilot 2015 capability if possible. The old one looks more bold and aggressive !

[@Steve10091960]

If the problem is having the wheel with traction unweighted, make a platform of equal height for that wheel with a grippy surface. That will make it a test of traction without throwing in the variable of an unweighted traction wheel.

[@crystalthurmond7254]

Wider rollers with side rails with built-in ball rollers to allow sidewall slippage as well.

[@logtothebase2]

I think you’re getting up against the limits of your test the rollers need anchoring and you need some security against reversing into the end of the ramp possibly a tether on the front. it would be good to see how full on diff locks Jeep or similar worked in the same test. I think these all wheel drive systems are starting to look pretty good

[@1wasinAlpha]

For people asking about CR-V, cr-v can’t do it, pilot basically has acura sh-awd system, they just called it differently cause it’s not performance oriented. Cr-v don’t have it thus can’t do it(diagonal and 3 wheel roller test)

[@ThisGuyRides]

Correct, CRV has simpler Real-Time 4wd system and can only send power to one rear wheel when front wheel slips. So at most only one front and one rear wheel gets power.

[@chrismilfeld9431]

Why not get a wheel chock and place it at a set distance behind the rear tire that does not have a set of rollers. This may stop the vehicle from rolling past a certain point, just a thought. Keep up the great work!

[@TWRSHO]

As someone else has already mentioned, use a block behind the wheel with traction to prevent roll back. As far as side to side, you could try mounting additional rollers over each of the metal channels (sides) Take a run over to an Air Care testing center to see this in action. I think you could accomplish this with 6 extra rollers, a drill, a few short piece of angle (steel or alum.) and some bolts.

[@surebrah]

Kudos for attempting to be consistent and eliminate variables. Much better than previous “mashup” videos. Please put graphics on the screen for each scenario, ie: “traction control off, sand mode”. Easier to skip through the vid.

[@albertovicinanza]

I think you should put some rubber pads under the rollers to prevent them from sliding out.

[@ericcollins8940]

If you have the means to get a hold of a long enough conveyor belt you could use one and weld a stopper on it, or weld the last 3,or so rollers to stop rolling

[@amv7m]

Tommy I applaud your moxy but that incline test is nuts. It would suck (obviously) if the car slid back, hit those bumpers and got damaged. I do find it interesting to see how long the AWD system takes to figure out what’s going on and send power to the appropriate wheel(s). Honda’s AWD systems are a little slow in general but your results with this car overall don’t seem bad.

[@stevesanford4978]

Enjoying these AWD system test, glad you have started doing this test, I would like to see the Mazda CX9 done as well as the Subaru Ascent. As far as the roller test/hill stop, need a lever on the roller assembly that flips up on the rear of the roller assembly, or a stop welded on to prevent the vehicle from rolling back any further. Enjoy watching you guys

[@THEBOULDER236]

Wow Honda has stepped their AWD game up! I did not expect it to do that well in your test.

[@GIGABACHI]

SCRAP the loading dock test before it becomes a tragedy. It's not IF but WHEN it will happen. Gonna have to come up with a better way to "glue" those roller platforms to the ground. Also, figure a way to make the " diagonal & only one wheel with traction" test with all four wheels at the same suspension travel, the car will move less and there will be a less variables. The system GM uses to test their G80 rear locker it's one of the best I have seen. OEM level R&D budget and grounds sure helps a LOT. LOL. Great work, Tommy, keep it up !

[@davidrobinson3148]

What's so dangerous about the loading dock test?

[@mikewasowski1411]

The vehicle skews due to the one remaining traction wheel breaking traction causing the skew and the other wheels clawing the metal parts of the roller frames. You need to provide the traction wheel with extra traction to avoid it skidding. Try a traction board like a max trax or a waffle board, the GRP grid mesh which has the garnet embedded into the surface. Available cheap as off cuts from industrial plants which use GRP grid mesh for access platforms in high corrosion areas.

[@catfishakaAMC]

It doesn't have the suspension articulation to keep the right rear tire's contact patch fully planted on the ground. If you look closely, you can see the tire is almost off the ground completely. This was not as big of a deal in the flat pavement test, but in the hill test, it was a problem due to pure physics. It's a heavy vehicle that has to stop (and go) on the traction of half of one tire on a hill. A good way to modify this test would be to have the one tire with traction to also be on a stationary platform of the same height as the rollers. That way all 4 tires would be firmly planted on the "ground" in a stable, predictable manner.

[@zoltangz]

If the rollers were not 'flat' but shaped with a 'flare' on both sides it would keep the wheels 'centered' and not allow the vehicle to slide left or right. Another good suggestion (Ernie Mangus) was to have the ramps 'anchored' to the ground to keep them from flying around, using some sort of nails that they keep vehicle counting tubes across the highway (Department of Transportation items) ... I would like to see this same test done on the MAZDA CX-5 (which ever year you like from 2016 to present) !! Thanks.

[@johnsimun6533]

Try putting all 4 tires on the rollers, and use slow motion video to analyze the video to see the difference in how the different settings work. Hard part is how to keep the throttle even across the test. Good video again, balls of steel when it comes to the incline test. That one was close.

[@Julian-do7bv]

Glad you listened and done only one front wheel with traction this should be one of the test every time not just a substitute

[@EasyTechTrading]

the v6 makes a big difference pushing this car forward sending all those power in all 4 tires. 4 cycl. turbo might struggle a bit on uphill slip test. good job honda improving their AWD system.

[@TheGomezIndustries]

Can you do the Incline test on a super heavy duty flat bed tow truck? That way you can vary the angles and you can support the car with the winch of the tow truck.

[@damir1984]

How about have all the wheels at the same level when testing. When you test diagonal or one wheel, you are not loosing grip due to height difference, especially when on the ramp. Basically have a dummy ramps that are solid without the rollers.

[@AAron-jj7zx]

Given your situation there maybe placing the ramps and rollers in front and climbing over them could work better. Not to mention a bigger hill lol. I like the incline test it seems a little more true to life, usually it's when climbing a hill you would run into the slippage problem most anyhow.

[@Transpower]

Good, this time you correctly did the three wheel/tire roller test (except that the Pilot veered off one set of rollers). In a properly designed AWD system, if only one wheel/tire has traction, the vehicle will be able to move! I'll have to think about how to keep the vehicle from sliding off the rollers, though....

[@jamesfederer5592]

I have seen first generation MDX failed the three-roller test on KZbin. Honda made great progress.

[@TheGomezIndustries]

It would be nice if you have a benchmark vehicle like 4WD Land Cruiser just to compare how good or bad are AWD systems of other cars. I know AWD system is somewhat inferior compared to a 4WD Land Cruiser but this would show the kind of quality some of these AWD cars offers.

[@rodalmighty2003]

I would say that it wasn't a completely failure. The passenger side rear tire was spinning on the pavement prior to it slipping off the rollers. This would suggest that the pavement touching tire was doing a lot of the work.

[@dennisellis3143]

What about stuck mode...would of loved to see that one tested

[@orange9035]

This isnt true for all cars, but most AWD/4WD cars tend to have the more aggressive differential in the rear. The pilot has a full torque vectoring differential in the back and only uses the brakes in the front to simulate an LSD. It would probably have an easier time on that hill test with a rear wheel losing traction than a front due to the torque vectoring and the weight transfer to the back. You guys should try to incorporate the car's best differential into the test. In addition, the wheel in the rear was also being unloaded due to the height difference and the car having independent suspension with less travel. The wheel with traction should probably be on a platform with a similar surface to asphalt to match traction at the same height as the rollers to mitigate this

[@payco1000]

Tommy .. Excellent Test concept for all traction system tests. But find a better location for the hill test. And get a couple more cameras to view every angle simultaneously. Great idea.

[@erik1514]

If he uses a different hill to test, it will void all the previous tests as comparison.

[@imaprinta]

I think I'm starting to understand what a previous viewer discovered in your Subaru test, with nearly similar results. It's much more of a science question than my background would know off hand, but basically by lifting 3 wheels on to the rollers you are also taking weight off of the 4th wheel as well, limiting it's contact with the pavement. Think of putting a box on the ground with 3 corners lifted off on to bricks. Doesn't the 4th corner of that box also lift off the ground quite a bit? It may teeter toward contact, but it does not actually have any weight to that contact. In this instance, you are slipping back not because the holding power of the brakes, but because you essentially have 4 wheels with no true contact with the pavement. To take that further, it is also the reason, when you do get the car (SUV) on to the rollers, it struggles to move forward, since no tire has true contact with the pavement. When using the front wheel as the example, you have a slightly better result since the momentum of trying to go forward temporarily shifts the car's weight to the front, making marginally better contact. Therefore, unless a car has a weight bias toward the single wheel you are testing, no car will do well in this type of 4th wheel test. I hope I explained that well enough to understand. Sorry if I tend to go on and on and ....

[@441meatloaf]

Thats why TFL hates subaru and and purposely manipulates the test for their own liking. They literally shot themselves in the face in this video by admitting the car needs weight on a 3 roller test. Ergo completely contradicting the fact they claim about Subaru AWD. Have you notice they tested the different modes in the Honda vs the Outback where they did not even bother engaging x-mode? This is how bias this garbage channel is.

[@blyssed]

@@441meatloaf They did engage xmode. The 3 wheels on rollers causing the 4th to lose down force theory is false. I didn't even argue with that guy's pseudo-physics in the Subaru video, but when I read his comment, I knew that he was only slightly educated in the field.

[@michaelbayliss1794]

So make long story short , the Pilot would have done better than it did on their test . Just need the fourth wheel to be at the level as the three on the rollers . Not a bad demonstration on how the system works tho . Can you tell I own a Pilot ?

[@snowthugs]

Ready to see with a Subaru outback. Also build the rollers with side roller on a 30 degree angle to cup the wheel. Also use a tow rope and another vehicle to lower the car down. So you can let off the gas and the car won't slide off.

[@spokes28]

? Would you think there is a plus or minus to leaving it in a non-normal mode for everyday driving on dry roads?

[@MNVemma]

You should setup the rollers in front of the tires so you drive up the hill onto the rollers. In the Subaru tests, they usually have that approach except on a specially built ramp

[@MEAMERIE]

it looks somewhat better... did they forget to paint one of the spokes though?

[@douggmc]

on incline tests, perhaps driving forward UP over the rollers, instead of backing DOWN them would be easier ("better") test?

[@pra3t0rian]

Does it work without overheating the transmission?

[@doommikeswimgaming5632]

You guys should try the FORD EXPLORER 2018 , I'm curious to see how well it would do! Thankya!

[@doommikeswimgaming5632]

With the 4WD SYSTEM

[@dcpc08161992]

Please do the same test to the 2018 Highlander AWD or 2019 RAV4 AWD :). One problem I saw is that the rollers aren't gripping enough to the ground that the force of the tires propelled the rollers all over the place. Maybe bolt the roller down to the concrete to hold them in place.

[@rcasewst]

You don't have to go all the what down the ramp. Just have the rears 1/2 down the ramp and the fronts on the flat. It will give you much of the same effect.

[@joesimonetti4030]

Good looking pilot and does good at getting of with some mods done to the ramp im sure your tests will have better results

[@Deunde1108]

Find an open space with no walls around . It was intense watching this

[@londongoddamnit]

Any advantage to using a lower gear?

[@isidorodelgadillo6561]

Wheel chocks would be helpful for the future tests to keep the vehicle from rolling too far back and off the rollers

[@joshc606]

Though I know this time you had to use a different setup on the hill test. When you put the rollers that way it’s no different than testing a limited slip on a FWD car. Leaving only a rear wheel with traction is the best way to test a FWD bias AWD car. Good job either way! I know it’s tough.

[@Suction_]

Maybe find a different location for the hill test? Rolling back into that dock around be costly

[@leftlanekennels8735]

Instead rolling back into the rollers drive forward onto the rollers going up the hill

[@nickchaisson1832]

floor the accelerator to see how the vehicle reacts to hard acceleration while in low traction situations. Also, if possible, put all 4 wheels on rollers to see if the vehicle is able to find any traction and to show power being sent to each wheel and to see how the vehicle reacts to very low/no traction.

[@TwinShards]

The best mode is the Snow mode.. not the sand mode. Has the sand mode do not fully lock free-spinning wheel. Because in the sand, you wouldn't want 1 wheel lock because all other wheel would just dig them self. Has for snow, it is more likely going to give power to the wheel with the most traction.

[@nielsdebakker3283]

With your test you are unloading the traction(and brake) wheel(s). Set the test up with the wheels in the same level. That way the wheel with traction can both brake and drive better.

[@BTC909]

Sweep the roller spots on the ground & reconsider what you are using for non-slip strips.

[@717dash_cam]

I think it would be interesting to see how these AWD systems handle these tests in reverse, especially the hill portion of the test; Simulating being parked on a slippery hill facing down but having a car in front of you forcing you to reverse to get out of your spot.

[@NiNjaTurtLe697]

Is the AWD system on this better than the outback?

[@frankwang2422]

I would love to see an awd Tesla on the rollers, if you ever get the opportunity.

[@Roaming50]

I really appreciate the test. Yes, some refinement is needed but no one else out there is holding the manufacturers accountable for their traction systems. As to the Pilot I'm not surprised with it's performance. There was more slippage that I would have thought but owning a 2016 I have to say that if you put winter tires on it and then put it is snow mode the vehicle is a beast! A couple years back I was happily driving through 17" of snow around Boulder at 35mpg. At 40 it got a little squirrelly but at 35 it was rock solid. :)

[@jckclt]

Cool video. I'd like to see a comparison on how this Pilot did against the competition (Highlander, Explorer, cx-9, Traverse, etc). Also, what is the best large SUV you have tested AWD on? Audi claims to have the best system, is it?

[@jpa9058]

Wedge the right rear with a wheel chock?

[@topsecretmx5142]

Remove another roller so the tires fit into the open portion better it would also make the test that much harder. Seems like most new awd systems aren’t having a super hard time. Making the test harder at the start would also mean you wouldn’t have to do the incline test in a loading dock potentially damaging the vehicle.

[@dan_youtube]

Cam You do a test like this with an older model like 2008 or 2012