Does the PolyBrute sound thin?

Let us explore the notion put forth by someone on the Internet... that the Arturia PolyBrute "sounds thin." Does it sound thin? This video answers the question.

[@citadel314]

If you cannot get thickness out of 12-osc (2VCO x voices), 3 LFOs/EGs, and a pair of 12db/24db filters (not even touching on the Stereo spread) then the problem is with the ‘driver’, not the car... Your Polybrute coverage has been epic, Marc (as always)

[@automaticgainsay]

Thank you, and I have to agree 100% on your point.

[@D1570R73D]

It depends on your definition of thickness. I've seen people try to add "thickness" by popping on unison mode and you can still tell the voices are thin. Thickness starts at the oscillator, if you get a raw tone from the oscillator and it doesn't have depth to it, you can't add that back in with modulation. Compared to a Grandmother or most good monosynths, any polysynth will sound thin. This is because they intentionally have voices without too much detail on polysynths so that when you play more than one note, they don't become a noisy mess. "Does the Polybrute sound thinner than other polysynths?" is the real question.

[@kw7865]

You know what sounds thin? Any Moog if you crank up the resonance...😃

[@automaticgainsay]

Ha ha... ouch!

[@lordundhimself1310]

As a Moog fan, that is fair

[@LaymensLament]

I think its not complete bullshit to argue 'thickness'. I would say the classic sound associated with 'thickness' is a slightly distorted sine out of a moog grandmother through a ladder filter (808 is also a sine). Now the Polybrute can sound huge and the Polybrute can also sound thick but I would say, with all other things being equal, it is characteristically more metallic than e.g. a matriarch. With that I don't say one is better than the other that would be pretty stupid to argue but I do feel, there is some merit talking about sonic chracteristics, even if its often overdone, because synths definitely sound different, else we wouldnt have so many of them.

[@AlexBallMusic]

A lot of people listen on phone speakers too, so that doesn't help. But anyway, as ever, your point was well made.

[@automaticgainsay]

I would say... um... that... Well, anyway, thank you for responding with an understanding of things. :D

[@AM-ui9mc]

Real fat sounds transfer

[@DFunct905]

That’s a great point. I know that I’m not getting a good idea of the true capabilities of any audio equipment through tablet speakers, but there are people who, for whatever reason, don’t consider that.

[@florianruf5039]

Yes, I also use my phone speakers... So it sounds thin😂🤣🤣😅

[@florianruf5039]

Perhaps there are some persons who connect their Polybrute with the phone speakers 🤪😹🎊👍 Who knows???

[@lb2696]

It is definitely a versatile synth but I do feel that Arturia Matrixbrute and Polybrute both do have a sort of aggressive, almost nasal high mid character to them. It would be silly to argue that synths don’t have a general tonality to their oscillators, filters, VCA. I love my Matrixbrute but it does have certain qualities to its sound that are always there. I feel they have deep bass but don’t have the bigness/thickness in the low mids that a Moog has. But that’s fine, they have their own character. That’s why people have multiple synths. Different tools.

[@automaticgainsay]

Ultimately, the question is whether a synth has an apparent character throughout the spectrum of its settings… and while I’d agree that there are some synths whose character is apparent in a lot of its settings, it would be a terrible synth if it had the same character despite the timbre!

[@brianschiller4053]

I got a polybrute a couple weeks ago. It sounds massive, so much that I don’t find myself using the suboscillator much. If you can’t get a phat sound out of the polybrute then the issue is pilot error.

[@mgabrysSF]

How are the presets? Are any of them fat (I've heard some that 'seem to be' from the various demos - but what's your take)?

[@brianschiller4053]

@@mgabrysSF a lot of the presets tend to be more complex and atmospheric, intended to show off modulation and morphee capabilities. There are some very thick unison leads and basses though. If you want to play Jump or Subdivisions, or mono lead sounds like what I’d dial up on a Moog, you have to build them. That’s not hard, as the Polybrute is so easy and quick to edit that I haven’t felt the need to save any presets of my own yet.

[@ChurroLightyear]

@@mgabrysSF not enuff brass presets

[@mgabrysSF]

@@brianschiller4053 I've loaded 3 sets into mine and found the most common are Jump, Subdivisions, and Blade Runner patches - because they're included in 2 of them. Which is nice if you're looking to grind out some Rush leads over your own stuff. One has a Tom Sawyer lead that's pitch-perfect.

[@mgabrysSF]

@@ChurroLightyear Easily rectified with both free and the many libraries available for purchase. I've loaded up to the point of having only 96 slots free - but those may be filled soon. Once I get out of exploration and recording some sounds auditioned for tracks, I"ll roll more of my own - but it's simple to dial-off the presets I have and make a unique sound as-is.

[@LaymensLament]

Also I'm currently thinking of picking up a Polybrute as my big main synth, so thank you for your many informative videos on this.

[@VacancyOfDisco]

"sounds like casio/nintendo" are always my favorite slams on analog synths

[@automaticgainsay]

I’ve gotten a lot of that, AJ!

[@err4071]

Even though all computers and game consoles back in the day were all 8 bit digital custom chips.

[@MichaelBlueMusic]

Maybe “thin” is the wrong word. “Sterile” or “dry” might be better descriptors. The MatrixBrute was the single most cardboard-sounding synth to ever grace my studio (briefly). Adding low/filtered content doesn’t fix it. In the MB, even stacking, detuning and adding subtle LFO to the metalizers, etc didn’t help. To me the PolyBrute sounds better, but it’s still simply no competition for even a Summit with 2 oscillators going with just a little diverge and drift. Compare that to any of the ‘Brutes and you’ll immediately hear what ‘Brute detractors are talking about. I LOVE Arturia. I have 2 controllers and V Collection and couldn’t be more happy with them. But these hardware oscillators are just absolutely lifeless. Even my Hydrasynth, unabashedly digital as it is, has richer, dare I say “thicker” sounding oscillators. And that’s before you even add the Analog Feel, Random Phase or Warm Mode, which just completely bring it to life. Maybe people hear and process sound differently, maybe we’re just inadequately describing what we’re hearing. But there just hasn’t been a ‘Brute yet that sounded half as good as the Summit. 🤷‍♂️ Much love for all you do, love watching your videos. 👍

[@enochroot9438]

Those who say the Polybrute sounds thin have never heard one up close and personal...mine arrived last week and it can sound as deep or thick enough to satisfy any chonk addict....Also a shout out to the auto-generate patch function which kept me entertained today, really has that I'll just have one more go addictive quality as I discovered 6 hours later

[@automaticgainsay]

I have still never used that!!! Thanks for your comment, Enoch!

[@jvaranx]

I can't wait for mine to arrive!

[@enochroot9438]

@@automaticgainsay it may be worth making a video on that feature, nobody seems to be highlighting it. For relative newcomers like me, it provides a good start to build patches on but even for experienced sound designers it can offer a random source of inspiration taking them in a directions they had not considered going

[@BarryWarne]

CS-80 was a thin sounding synth which was part of the magic

[@VickersDoorter]

Having owned a CS-80 for nearly 25 years, that's one assessment I'd not make of it. Character yes, thinness, no. The Roland JX-10 is one of the fullest sounding synths I've ever owned and the CS-80 is pretty comparable when the filters are driven accordingly. But I guess all such things are subjective.

[@MurphysLaw996]

You should have played one of the unison preset of the polybrute. Most of them are so ridiculously fat to the point that some people would complain that it sounds too fat. I’ve got mine for a week now and it sounds really good. I started to reproduce some of my patches I made on my minilogue XD on the polybrute. I’m not trying to make them sound exactly the same but they have the same general feel. In all cases they end up sounding much better. I think that a lot of demos out there are focusing too much on morphing and sounds with crazy modulations. And the presets do not have enough famous synths sounds like Oberheim Jump, Toto Africa brass, Journey don’t stop believing ep, etc, that people are familiar with. So it’s difficult for them to differentiate the performance elements of the demo from the sound quality of the synth.

[@MiamiVisor]

It's as thick as Marc's ever-changing hair styles.

[@automaticgainsay]

THEY'RE ALL WIGS! :D

[@1918SMLE]

@@automaticgainsay "*Thicc" I'd be disappointed if Mr. Gainsay ( Automatic... Automatic Gainsay.. ((said in Sean Connery voice))) had a regular hair profile for a video. Sure I'm an analog synth geek, but if Auto has a traditional car salesman's side-part for a video, I'm going to assume he did not like the product and move on. It's a barometer for the product in discussion.

[@KRAFTWERK2K6]

@@automaticgainsay Wigs? HA!! THAT explains everything :P

[@MikkelGrumBovin]

@@KRAFTWERK2K6 Wigs in SPACE !

[@zerocrossing]

It sounds terrible in my house BECAUSE IT’S NOT IN MY HOUSE YET WHY IS IT NOT IN MY HOUSE YET SWEETWATER?!!!! 😝

[@Individual_two]

Cool video! Can you assign the Morph to an external expression pedal? This thing sounds great!

[@JimmiG84]

I mean all synths have a certain character, a type of sound they "gravitate" to. But most of the time, attributing adjectives like "thin", "bright", "brassy" etc. to a complex, flexible synthesizer that can create almost any sound imaginable seems incredibly naive. I feel most of the time it's either due to the presets and KZbin demos giving a one-side impression, or because of the range of certain parameters (like filter cutoff and resonance, envelope amounts etc.) might be higher than what you're used to on other synths, making it easier to step beyond the "sweet-spot".

[@MarshalArnold]

Seems nearly everything that comes out folks hear a handful of presets demoed by someone on KZbin and judge based on that. They seem to forget that a synth is capable of many types of sounds. Dedicating time to RTFM and design patches and you'll likely discover all kinds of awesome sounds, that is the best part of owning a synth.

[@automaticgainsay]

While I am one of the people that people use to come to immediate conclusions, I agree with you. :D

[@MarshalArnold]

@@automaticgainsay well, in all fairness to you I don't think Ive seen you do a playthrough of factory presets and that's it... I've been a fan of your channel because you'll do deep dives into many aspects of a synth. Either way though if I were a synth manufacturer I'd be sure to have cash in the budget to hire some excellent patch designers so that when they land in the hands of KZbinrs the synth will hopefully sound as good as possible. Won't please everyone anyway but given how its hard to find high-end synths in shops to try a great video demo can move units or really hurt sales. I watched Jamie of GEOSynths do a live stream with his PolyBrute and designed some really great sounds right off the cuff, this synth def sounds awesome IMO. 🤘😁

[@JBrm]

Thanks for the cool vid! I think many people referring to the sound being thin, are judging by a single oscillator through a single filter. And in this regard, many other synths have a fatter base sound. However, as you demonstrated, the PB is quite capable of delivering substantial fatness.

[@mpmi7588]

Is there a patch book for this? There wasnt one for the MatrixBrute. I think it would be dope if there were start off patch books to show how to make different instrument sounds and let you tinker from there.

[@julienward221]

There's no patchbook and it could be argued that the manual could be more detailed. But remember this synth comes with preloaded patches and a software that lays out clearly everything that's going on at every moment. There's nothing there that you can't figure by yourself because the design is very well thought out. The Minibrute 2 came with a "cookbook" to help build a sound from the ground up. The Minibrute 2 doesn't have memory, the MatrixBrute and PolyBrute do and give you awesome sounds prepatched for you to pick appart and build up again. The PolyBrute is very welcoming to beginners.

[@koalemos1679]

Also, isn't it sometimes preferable to have a synth sit in a particular frequency range instead of just being huge all over the place? To my unexperienced mind, thin can sometimes mean focused as well or am I just stupid?

[@koalemos1679]

@Rich H Piccolos are the perfect example. They're super thin, but it takes 1 piccolo in a group of like 100. 2 piccolos will make your head explode like Jack Black in The Pick of Destiny.

[@rattenkonig6303]

I mean, it's flexible crazy synth with insane mod matrix and crazy amount of knobs and stuff. Saying this monster has only one quality of sound (e.g. "thin") is actually silly and weird.

[@FretchGaming]

Polysynths don't need to sound thick in my opinion. Every "thick" poly patch i played never really fitted in any of my mixes and I always prefered thinner sounds that are beautiful on their own and even more in the mix. That's also the reason why I love the Prophet Rev2 so much (would love it even more with a High Pass Filter^^)

[@automaticgainsay]

This is a super valid point. A fat polysynth sound essentially dominates a mix, which is fine if it's the only thing going on!

[@macthomas8899]

Choosing between the Polybrute and the Rev 2, which one of you could only pick one? I have a MOOG Sub 37 on the way to pair with either of those, right now I’m thinking polybrute bc it’s ability to have polyphony, but also it’s ability to do much more with the matrix feature.

[@thar24636]

​@@macthomas8899what'd you get?

[@macthomas8899]

@@thar24636 got neither, and went with a Digitakt for smaller approach/other reasons. I am using a piano, Digitakt and FL as of now, but if I were to get a analog synthesizer for my studio (plan on getting this summer) I’ve been looking at the Take 5 and the Analogue Rytm by elektron.

[@ZetaCarinae]

Can you do this same video for the Hydrasynth (I know you are more interested in analog synths but I'd love to see that).

[@automaticgainsay]

I do get requests for the Hydrasynth, and I should really look into it.

[@Barefoot_Joe]

There's way more synths in the world that I don't want to use in my music than ones I've chosen to use. I don't understand why people can't allow for personal taste nowadays, as if there was ever a perfect tone for all ears, it never existed, except in dreams.

[@automaticgainsay]

I will always allow for personal taste, but I will not allow for misleading inaccuracy. :D

[@Barefoot_Joe]

@@automaticgainsay I agree, but I read the same forum and just chuckled to myself at those comments, as my PB sat here in unison mode rattling the shelves in the neighbours house. ;)

[@DiGiT626]

This is a question that has plagued me, so I thought I would pose it here: is synth polyphony achieved by sacrificing the frequency of neighboring notes, or on a next-note priority? I think a number of polys sound thin, from the Minilogue to most DSI stuff and my digital Roland Sh201 (sounds nasally and best though analog pedals). In the past I have blamed the filters (Minilogue), or being digital (early DSI and certainly the Roland). The frequency reduction makes sense to me because analog monos have a tendency to eat a lot of frequency. So the short question is, is there EQ happening in the synth, and is that what people are picking up on when they are trying to adjust their ears from monophonic to polyphonic analogs?

[@australianaliens5942]

Following. Great question!!!

[@indiefilmcomposer]

This is a good observation I find from my own experience mono synths have very strong punch and low end , I have owned mopho, mopho 4, voyager, slim phatty, matrix brute , grandmother, the Polly brute which I own now does not sound like matrix brute it can’t go there

[@mgabrysSF]

With SonicState saying it was shaking their studio - I'm guessing no, but let's see what this is all about. BTW - like many I'm hoping to get one by year's end. I've used digital synths for around 33 years, but I'm looking at this one for my first 'analog' synth (mostly because making patches on a DX was an experience in massive pain) but I'm noticing that those who know analog seem to have 'fun' with the PolyBrute - as compared to say - a Prophet Rev2 (which is capable but less 'fun'). I think 'fun' is an important bit to the kit because if it's just another painbox - well, I've got a few of those already. It's also noticeable in the reviewers faces. They're literally giddy and having fun. I don't know if it's the interface, the hands on nature of the beast - or what - so the question I have for you : is it fun? Have you found it fun to play vs 'work with'.

[@angelog.spicolaiii8021]

Yeah... 'if all the traffic lights turned blue tomorrow' -Jimi Hendrix udahman! Doty thanx dude.

[@tytrdev]

This gives me some great ideas for new things to try. Using the high pass and resonance to boost the low end is awesome. Also I wonder if you could then run the filters in series and use a low pass on the second filter to curtail the high end even more. Also run that boosted low end through both the brute and the distortion and I bet it could be quite nasty. Excited to try it after work.

[@JiL33]

I received my Polybrute last week ^^ and ... it's a fantastic machine, the one i dreamed for long years. And for the one who have doubt (like Jeff), it sounds GREAT in real !!! :)

[@snowleopard9749]

"Thin" can be a timbral description, rather than a purely tonal description. It can be something that an EQ boost or filter settings won't fix. A "thick" sound for example can refer to timbral complexity as all of the working parts interact in imperfect ways, along with running a hot signal path from the oscillator to the output to further colour the sound. In that sense the Polybrute is thin sounding compared to a Memorymoog (or Minimoog).

[@denovaire]

enjoyed it a lot! nice vid, great idea, cool presentation.

[@vatolegato]

I've listenred to multiple videos on youtube on the Polybrute and there's something missing from it's sound. I don't know how to describe it. To me it does sound thinner than a Prophet 6, not that the Polybrute can't be thicker. But it could also be that the Polybrute lacks a wide dynamic sound compared to a Prophet 6 where the sound shines. Does anyone else see it the same way?

[@tyromelive2851]

Owning the poly and matrix, the problem is, they just don’t fit in a mix 🤷‍♂️. Every time an old Roland or even my Kurzweill 2500 will do a better job with strings. Same with bass, every time I go back to a moog(any moog). Leads ? OBXa , done! Special fx, well there are other beasts out there… Nice sounding synth on his own.

[@park171]

I’m going to try to put it in a mix with different synths. I’m

[@ninjaxhayabusa]

I will never hear anything to do with an Arturia (post-2016) synth being thin. My first synth ever was a microbrute which passed away due to PSU issues (RIP) and my current synth is a Grandmother. The micro was the only thing I've owned that has ever come close to the Moog in terms of bass content, in fact, were it not for the keybed they'd be pretty well matched.

[@kellymerrill5294]

Never played the polybrute but owned the Microbrute and I did find the steiner filter to be inferior to the microfreak sem filter.

[@stevenwhite8936]

i think i saw that comment section where many had gripes to post it seemed either they had an axe to grind or possibly didnt account for the audio being taped by an iphone taping an open room not a line recording.

[@txdap]

Hi from Austin Texas, I enjoyed your video thanks for sharing..

[@automaticgainsay]

Thanks for watching! Say hi to Austin... I haven't been there since about 1999!

[@HeathcliffBlair]

Thanks for the video. I have to say that I too find something wrong with the Arturia hardware synths tones. I was hugely interested in the Matrixbrute. The concept and design looked wonderful, but, damn it, I never heard a single sound demo that I liked. Not one.. and I listened to dozens of them! Very clinical, buzzy, thin, sandpaper-ish. Weirdly, no amount of filtration seemed to improve it much. It just seems way too easy to make cheap sounding tones with these synths. By contrast, you have to work hard to make a Moog sound bad. Even Behringers have a more organic vibe. I still occasionally look at the Matrixbrute and instinctively lust after it. Then I watch the demos again and.... nope. Damn shame. Not trolling here. Just my honest opinion. Thanks again.

[@VincentPresley]

Yeah, I keep trying to like my Polybrute but I agree, it's probably the thinnest and most brittle sounding synth I have in here. Even the example patch in this video of how it can "sound fat" sounds pretty bad to me. I'm not a big Juno 60 guy, and sold that one off too, but even that has a lot more balls. I'm trying to focus on what the Polybrute does well which to me is weird, moving, harsh evolving sounds. But yeah, I find the filters and oscillators to be very disappointing. You can hold down a 3 note bass chord which should sound massive, but as soon as you play a single high note all the low end is gone and you're left holding your ears. Brittle, harsh, no balls, thin. You might be able to come up with a decent bass sound as long as you don't venture an octave up.

[@PracticalCat]

Hmmm maybe it sounds too "tight" is what people are trying to say not "thin" Let me explain. What I have noticed with lot's of modern analog polys is that they sound very stable and perfect. Old analog polys sounded more wild and out of whack. It gave them and the music they were in a spooky edge that I liked. That being siad the polybrute sounds great and in the context of a well written song will sound even better. It's all about context. We have the synths in 2021 but not the music :p

[@automaticgainsay]

No, I agree with you on that. The PolyBrute IS capable of being terrifyingly stable. In a lot of my videos, though, I show you a number of ways that the PolyBrute allows you to defeat that stability and introduce subtle variations in waveshape, pitch, etc., as well as distortion so that you can very effectively emulate old unstable analogs! To be honest, if I couldn't do these things, I would probably be a bit less enthusiastic about the PolyBrute.

[@PracticalCat]

@@automaticgainsay Ile have to watch your whole series on this synth!

[@ChurroLightyear]

Got a polybrute and it's hands down my favorite synth I own over my matriarch, sub 37 and prologue. Things I wish it could've done Maybe 8 voices but I think 6 is definitely good enough Maybe an instant pwm to lfo 1 and things like that Metalizer default changes saw and square waves More brass presets (really like there's 4 or 5) Fixed pitch or drone option for oscillator 2 Autochord without using the sequencer More options for the mod fx External Input ---> noise Microtonal scales Poly aftertouch (i can barely think of anything that has this but it's about time) Balloons because it's heavy

[@rismosch]

Addressing the point you made about letting the second oscillator drone: I recently made a patch on mine, which has a constant windy sound playing in the background, even when no keys are pressed. I did that by having the release of the VCA as long as possible and modulate the volume of the oscillators in the mixer via the mod matrix. Thus the noise can ring out, while the oscillators are closed in the mixer, before they even hit the VCA. I am pretty sure you could do something simmelar but let an oscillator drone instead.

[@ChurroLightyear]

@@rismosch okay that does sound sick actually. I was more wondering about detaching an oscillator from the keyboard and pitch control entirely and having the other oscillator be controlled by the keyboard

[@ParkerCharlesGabriel]

What do you mean by poly aftertouch?

[@The_Bit_Player]

Is it still your favorite synth?

[@ZaffinMusic]

★★★★★ love your closing argument, and you’re right, that morph sounds cool! At the end of the day, as with most things, you get out what you put in. 👍😊

[@24framemedia]

Absolutely! I've heard so many lackluster Moog One sounds as well, if you don't know how to get great sounds out of any synth, perhaps it's not the synth but the operator!

[@zerocrossing]

How dare you! I want more than I put in! GIVE ME MOAR!

[@zerocrossing]

@@24framemedia What’s a “butter operator?” Is that some sort of FM synthesis? 😉

[@24framemedia]

@@zerocrossing haha! I'm all thumbs typing on the mobile phone!

[@ZaffinMusic]

@@zerocrossing was that a song from Grease?! 🤷‍♂️

[@ardenma]

really what kind of synth are they comparing it to ???

[@michelnielsen2855]

that metalizer effect sounds so wavetableish, which is indeed quite interesting for an analog synth :)

[@automaticgainsay]

I referred to that as "digital sounding" in a different video, and people were in an uproar. :D. But TOTALLY!

[@johndemko4051]

Let's say It's a full-figured sound.

[@Jehudi]

Thank you for your thoroughly tutorial on the MatrixBrute. I look forward to the PolyBrute. It is like its bigger brother. And Matrixbrute is already big!

[@AM-ui9mc]

Perhaps its the metallic, harsh, overtone, I experience this with the microfreak as well. Feels like a lot of felt fatness is fizzling in the high frequency range. This one is harsh.

[@automaticgainsay]

It is certainly capable of being intensely powerful in the high frequency range! But with effective filtering, that all goes away, and you're able to emphasize the more desirable vintage synth. character.

[@cfs]

Very vaguely reminiscent of the high content in the OB-6 making people say things about the sound that makes me raise my eyebrows and missing the fact it has/can have a LOT of low end. Depending on how you use it, and what you monitor it on, it can mask the low end. You can filter it on the synth, but, then, that high end content is also kind of the point in some ways, given the filter and bandpass, etc. I suspected some of the similar things applied to the PB and, sure enough, here's evidence that's the case. Thanks!

[@calicoskyband]

Want want want. Thanks Marc!

[@ztkspace5885]

Nice one Mark.

[@hermask815]

What BMI has a fat sound and is it only overweight or is it obese?

[@Gabriel.A.L.]

I have one for a short time and love it. But many sounds dont cut through the mix. I think the envelopes are a little lazy. Not sure. But thats a bit unfortunate

[@robertsyrett1992]

AHHH ITS TOO THICC!

[@annother3350]

I've just watch a 30 minute video on the Oberheim OBX-a and I must say it makes this one sound pretty plasticky

[@annother3350]

Watch 'why I love my oberheim obx-a'

[@jppagetoo]

Tone isn't where I would knock the PolyBrute. It's a killer sounding synth. And as you show, capable of so much depth. I still think 6 voices is a too few. But, it isn't a deal breaker and for most purposes six is plenty. If one showed up at my synth cave, it would be very welcome!

[@automaticgainsay]

While there are instruments I need full polyphony for, I typically don’t need a lot of polyphony for synth because I tend to use them in ways that don’t require it.

[@jppagetoo]

@@automaticgainsay I find I play a lot of chords on my polys. But more than 5 notes is not common (I am limited in my keyboard skills). The only time 6 would be a problem is with long decay envelopes and lots of notes let to ring. How often do I need that? Very uncommon. This is a wonderful synth to be sure, I'd love one!

[@samprock]

My Polybeaut is so thick and fat, I can't fit it under Moog37 and monitor :) Oh they talk about sound lol? I'd say its "Future Classic"! Yes, finally here, enjoying it. Thanks bulks, Mark, for letting survive past months while it was delivered. And to know by now what to do with it. Cheers!

[@automaticgainsay]

I’m so glad to help! Thank you!

[@VacancyOfDisco]

"sOuNdS tHiN" [listening on KZbin through cellphone speaker]

[@wgriffin1024]

Interested in Polybrute, however Arturia apparently have omitted either VCO1 or VCO2 switching into a low frequency mode, such as available in Anno Domini 1978 on Sequential Prophet-5. So many situations where it is extremely useful to have one audio VCO in low freq mode to provide what was called Polyphonic modulation. This necessary, simple feature would be very simple to implement in Polybrute software, just by instructing DAC to offset by a negative voltage, assuming DAC swings negative. Many several areas of sound are absent from the Polybrute without this simple feature. I hope this simple suggestion will find it's way to engineers.

[@RayyMusik]

Quite unnecessary because the PB has three polyphonic LFOs plus two loopable envelopes as mod sources.

[@24framemedia]

Your first mistake was going on a forum, lol!

[@Pacman1ac]

It depends on what do you consider as a "thick/fat" sounding synth. I mean, play some similar 2-osc patches on a Memorymoog or an OB-Xa and then do the same on Polybrute. Will you still believe that it's a fat sounding synth regardless of the sound character and the features of each synth? For me it can't get there. Maybe it's possible to make it sound fat with some programming, but, to my ears, it doesn't sound interesting when you play bread and butter patches.

[@automaticgainsay]

Instead of linking you to my Memorymoog demonstration, I'm just going to tell you that I have extensive experience with the Memorymoog. Actually, with most Moog synthesizers. I have owned many of them, and have worked with at least three different full Moog modulars ranging from 1967 through 1974. In addition to this, I played OBXAs in the stores, when they were still available. So, I guess what I'm saying is that I have extensive experience with where the term "fat" came from, and know not only what originally generated the term, what synths possessed the quality that was referenced, as well as how the term has changed over the years. The Memorymoog's bounty of Moog filters is awesome, but its chip-based oscillators are not that great, and they sort of work against each other. A Memorymoog is NOT like 6 Minimoogs at all. Ultimately, my assessment, and literal demonstration of the PolyBrute's potential fatness stands for itself, and as this video demonstrates to those who have watched it, it DOES have the ability to have the fullness and saturation that defines fatness. I mean, after all, it has what amounts to a Moog filter in it.

[@VincentPresley]

Definitely. Pretty much everything else I have sounds thicker than my Polybrute. I guess people have a different idea of a "thick sound" but to me the Polybrute and most of the current Prophet synths are all too thin, bright, harsh sounding. I think I'll be selling my Polybrute. Its morphing trick doesn't justify keeping it. I have much better sounding polys and other weirdos I like a lot more.

[@nilsvanderplancken]

Cool video! I once had a Jupiter-6. Yes it sounded 'thin' (opposite of juno-6), but I liked it's sounds and it combined well with others. Thin isn't always a bad thing, certainly once you start mixing stuff. This synthesizer has a lot of possibilities, endless modulation possibilities so I think it's a great addition on the market. I however still fail to hear the PolyBrute's warmth, a vintage tone it doesn't have for sure. 8:50 still sounds 'thin' to me, it has the highs, (which is cool many modern synths are lacking it) but it sounds a bit 'bandpassed' (to me), like mids and lows are not coming through. I miss some personality or real character in it's sound when comparing it to many polys of the 70s and 80s, which is something I personally look for when going for hardware. I have to say, in a setup without computer it might be pure gold, the feature list is mind-blowing.

[@nilsvanderplancken]

Personally, a synth that I adore, and is very thin sounding.......is the Yamaha CS-70M. Thin and full of character.

[@hurricane6014]

Bandpassy yes! That’s the definition I was looking for. I knew it was something that made it sound - let’s say - different. The problem is, and I appreciate Auto Gain allot, some will jump in, spending quite a bit of money and time. In this case, IT LOOKS COOL so what a great start! Right? Well, now you’ve got to defend it, bro. Still sounds a bit harsh but I love you , man. Fun to watch you try anyway.🤓👍

[@sauce_aux]

I would like to purchase some of your hair to tape to my head please. Still trying to cope with balding. 🤣🤣 Thanks for the video Marc! I hear a lot of the same “complaints” about the rev2 and Pro3, and it just really shows how many people don’t use their utility or ears.

[@automaticgainsay]

My hair is thinning. I'm lucky that it has a wide bore.

[@24framemedia]

People and their opinions! If you don't like the Arturia sound, that's one thing, I don't personally like the DSI sound, doesn't mean that great stuff can't be made with them! I've heard tons of underwhelming stuff done on the Moog One, isn't the instrument as much as it is the operator! Arturia is making some great synths!

[@mammyat80s21]

Disagree... few, FEW companies are making real good analog synths nowadays. People who think that this is a good analog synth lacks reference.

[@24framemedia]

@@mammyat80s21, I've played tons of synths, I own old Roland's, Yamaha's, Moog's. I've not played a polybrute personally but I have played a matrixbrute. Reference isn't lost here, why don't you tell us what you actually think is subpar instead of just assuming people who don't share your opinion don't have proper reference? Lol!

[@24framemedia]

@@mammyat80s21 also it's like comparing apples to oranges even an OB-6 doesn't sound thick in the way say an OB-1 would. Different eras of components. Nothing made today is going to sound like something made in the late 70's, it's not a fair comparison.

[@jonnycavell]

You contradict yourself. You say it's not the instrument but the operator, and you say you don't like the DSI sound. Unless you think it's somehow different people saying they don't like the PolyBrute sound.

[@24framemedia]

@Jonny Cavell I didn't contradict myself, I am saying it's one thing to NOT like the sound but not liking the sound is a matter of personal opinion, that doesn't make it an inferior quality synth just because you aren't a fan of it's core sound.

[@83RTU5]

Thanks for the Wah pedal comment, gonna buy me one and hook it up to the morph :D

[@zerocrossing]

Went on the internet?! You’re on the internet!!! 😂

[@automaticgainsay]

Oh, shit... that explains everything!

[@mathmanmrt]

tfw you read someone saying they'd really like the microfreak if it weren't for the keys and then you notice they don't own one nor have they ever played one.

[@lashtal]

What I've heard is that it lacks "character", it's own character. Like how you mention, the Mini Moog has it's own clearly identifiable sound. Then you say, the PolyBrute "can be anything you want it to be", and from the sound demos I can agree wholeheartedly. But... does it have: it's own Character? I'm still not sure!

[@automaticgainsay]

It shouldn’t. Synthesizers, when powerful, should not be burdened by a single character. When you want that, you’re not looking for a powerful synth, you’re looking for a limited “sweet spot” synth.

[@lashtal]

@@automaticgainsay Well, let's take the MS20 for example: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eWTEfq2keZ2HsKs It sounds so characteristically like an MS20, yet it can emulate a huge amount of sounds, such as: rain fall, thunder, electricity zapping and crackling through a power line, flutes, massively deep and roaring rumbles, yet... it still manages to retain a "character". I must be failing to understand what you've explained... ? For the record, I do consider your channel quite the authority. So according to your explanation, a lot of people say the Moog One lacks character (that's some people's opinion), according to your explanation, this may not be the case at all, but it may very well be A Very Powerful Synth. But then... there is the MS20, capable of many, many sounds. And the Prophet 5, or 10... the OB6... the Jupiter 8... the CS80... they all make a lot of sounds but appear to not be getting any flack for lack of "character". I must be failing to understand, and I apologize, just trying to get down to the truth of this matter.

[@automaticgainsay]

@@lashtal I appreciate your post on this, because I think this is a really important issue. What I say is that the more powerful a synthesizer is, the less chance it has for retaining a particular character, and, to be honest, the less you should want it to. When you pay for a powerful synthesizer, you want it to be able to transcend how it sounds to sound how you want it to. You don't want your unique, complex patch to STILL identify as '[synthesizer x] now playing THIS sound." So, when I say what I said about the Minimoog, there are levels of nuance to the point I'm making. A skilled synthesist knows how to subvert the identifiable qualities of a synth. I can make patches on the Minimoog that do not sound like a Minimoog. And, certainly, sound effects are not likely to sound like the Minimoog. The character comes out in the midst of standard musical sounds, especially sounds that are played across the board on synthesizers. I could have mentioned the MS-20, too... it is another synth with a particular character that can really stand out... largely due to its unique filter arrangement. While I can make an MS-20 sound NOT like one, there are straightforward sounds where its unique character really stands out. So, it's not that you're not understanding; it's that there is a matter of resolution that must be applied to the concept. In the case of the Minimoog and the MS-20, which are both functionally rich, their limited architecture and filter strength lend them a typical nature. I guess I would say that in the case of the PolyBrute and the Moog One, I would say that they both "lack character..." but that you shouldn't want them to be limited to a character, and that it gets challenging to retain character with the more options that are possible.

[@lashtal]

@@automaticgainsay what an incredibly excellent reply! I now completely understand, Thank You!

[@automaticgainsay]

@@lashtal Thank you for the opportunity to explore this important topic!

[@AM-ui9mc]

I mean I do have to struggle to enjoy the tone. The moog or oberheim is like medicine in comparison

[@automaticgainsay]

I can make the PolyBrute sound as fat or as warm as any Oberheim or Moog polysynth. And I say this as a person who has played and demonstrated all of them.

[@NuisanceMan]

Is this video just the automatic gainsay of the question asked in the title?

[@lemelstudio]

I've found that online Polybrute demos (including this one) sound thinner (to me) than demos of, say, modern Moogs, or the UDO Super 6. I'm really honestly wondering why. I'm thinking there's a technical explanation for this, because it absolutely does NOT sound thin in person. In fact, I'd say it's the only instrument in my experience where the live sound is so dramatically better than online demos. It also makes me wonder what factors one might consider when ensuring that a design sounds good in online demos - a legitimate product consideration in this era.

[@automaticgainsay]

While I am an online demonstrator whose entire body of work depends on people watching the demonstrations, I do have to say that there is nothing better than a direct personal experience with a synthesizer. I do often wonder if I am actually capturing any synth in the best way possible to deliver the experience I am having in person. It's actually a source of anxiety for me. So,, between you and me, I agree with you. Online demos can give you a sense, but the best course is to experience the synth in person. My channel got started as some sort of means of demonstrating what synths that you likely won't be able to try in person sound like, as best as I could. But yes!

[@lemelstudio]

@@automaticgainsay To be clear, I don't feel you've somehow 'failed' to capture the Polybrute's sound, and your demos have helped me a lot. I do think that there is something about the Polybrute itself that makes it *particularly* difficult to capture compared to other instruments. I'm not knowledgeable enough to hypothesize why this might be true. I'm suspecting there is some interplay between the signal out and popular compression algorithms for online. I'd be interested to hear a recording engineer's take on how easy/difficult it is to record a Polybrute. A notable exception is Michael Geyre's demo of his presets (apparently he was a programmer on the product), though it should be noted his demo is more centered on features, rather than the sonic character. Thanks for bringing this conversation to the fore. This topic could impact sales of the instrument. It really deserves to be a runaway hit.

[@brianschiller4053]

@@automaticgainsay your musical demo vid of the Polybrute is what convinced me to make the purchase decision....so mission accomplished! ;)

[@DaneXbsinthe]

What’s wrong with thin? I’ve got a matrixbrute to cover bass.

[@automaticgainsay]

Nothing is wrong with it, unless you're a person who doesn't realize that a synthesis tool should be able to do a wide range of timbres, and not just a Moog bass. :D

[@DaneXbsinthe]

@@automaticgainsay I’m not one of THOSE people! LoL

[@DaneXbsinthe]

@@automaticgainsay I just came across an excellent review of both matrix and poly side by side.. it does look like Arturia intentionally designed the Poly to be less aggressive than the Matrix. They compliment each other.

[@DamnHeadHumpers]

my polybrute sounds hella thicc

[@jupitermarx]

Loving the Haircut!!! A true Gen-Xer like me;)

[@automaticgainsay]

It’s true!

[@SacSynths_Jack_Z]

Much respect to you, but I've tried quite hard to like the "sound" of the Polybrute... I have a ton of respect for Arturia too, but aside from the awesome modulation controllers like the morph knob, morphe, and the ribbon, I really struggle to appreciate its sonic character. Regardless, to each their own and keep up the great work on your wonderful videos!

[@synthshoot1026]

The stigma that assumes “thin” is bad has to die. You see by trying to debunk thin. We’re implicitly assuming that it’s bad and so who made the argument has already won part of it.

[@automaticgainsay]

My insistence that something that is portrayed as thin in general is not, in fact, submitting to the ostensible “thin is bad” assertion. People who don’t understand synthesis or what constitutes “fat” often describe a synth as “thin” when they don’t hear, or lack the skill to get, what they want. As a synthesist, I assert that a good synth is capable of a wide range of tonal qualities, including that which is thin, fat, or mid-rangy!

[@automaticgainsay]

But yes, this stupid “thin” thing has to die. :)

[@dangerbird64]

I wonder if the people who think this synth sounds thin actually may have low-frequency hearing loss. As you age and your hearing diminishes the first sounds you lose are low frequency sounds.

[@automaticgainsay]

I've lost 5K off the top. Maybe that's why I think this is fat. :D

[@rrocktoo]

You spent quality time in an attempt to teach people who probably never watched any detailed reviews of this synth. Bless you for providing the evidence for us to ‘hit’ them with whenever they cross our paths in future. I own both a Casio CZ-5000 and VZ-1 from back in the ‘really thin’ days. In comparison a PolyBrute is like God gargling with a whisky distillery before striking a match, just for fun.

[@automaticgainsay]

Ha ha, thank you!

[@mattkelly810]

This video answers the question "can you MAKE a fat sound on the Polybrute?" not "does the polybrute sound thin in general?". There's so much to love about the polybrute but I really have to work it to get away from a general thinness. Maybe this isn't a bad thing in a Poly and speaks to its versatility. However I always feel in reaching for the master volume or boosting the disto/brute factor and being a bit unsatisfied. The instruments I have loved in the past are ones that I struggle to get a bad sound out of, thus is definitely not one of those instruments and I'm often (not always) left wanting something "more". As an example this is not the case when I use my DFAM to make tonal stuff (let alone percussive).

[@automaticgainsay]

Okay, now try to escape the character you describe on the DFAM. The truth is, a synthesizer that is powerful should not be bound by a single tonal character. We all love tone synths, but as much as we love their character, they are burdened and limited by it. What this video did wasn’t that it proved you had to work for a fat tone, it proved that you had to work to make it sound thin OR fat, which is how any powerful professional synth should be.

[@mattkelly810]

@@automaticgainsay I get your point, I'm talking about a fundamental enjoyment of the sounds coming out of it when I play around/tweak. "Thin sounding" is a description that fits fairly well. I've probably been spoilt by my Roland SH5, which yes massively lacks the flexibility of the polybrute, but I can't get a bad sound out of it! Something fundamental about the tones that I like. With the polybrute I'm often disappointed at the fundamental tones. Horses for courses.

[@IanWaugh]

That's forums for you :-)

[@VirgilGuitar]

These are the same people who judge Led Zeppelin by the song "Hot Dog" ;)

[@robfel68]

My heart say yes to the metalizer, my ears no no no...

[@KRAFTWERK2K6]

My few theories on how people come to the assumption that certain Synths sound "thin": 1. They only heard audio demos from lossy sources online and maybe even through shitty DACs on their phone or onboard audio on the computer 2. they don't have the instrument themself 3. they actually have the instrument but their headphones or recording DAC & Monitor speakers are just not really good or perhaps their headphones don't get enough juice from the headphone outputs of the instrument 4. They may not have have good ears to begin with But yeah i think in most cases it's the DAC bottleneck. You can even make a Yamaha CS80 sound like a Casio keyboard if you squeeze it through a shitty DAC.

[@AdamTheAd-vanc3d]

Heres one you missed PMP Personal Mental Perception. I think sometimes our judgement is driven by others opinions, rather than our own.

[@roggyo]

I’m not impressed with the sound of PolyBrute, comparing to the other analog synths (and even some digital), particularly from the brands like the Roland, Korg, Moog, Oberheim and Sequential. Maybe it’s because of the filters, maybe because of the oscillators, maybe because of something else. There are certainly some good and warm sounds that I like, but if synth is analog and costs so much as it costs I expect to be blown away by the sound but I’m not. :)

[@automaticgainsay]

Totally fair. I have to say that whenever I go through the presets, I kind of feel that way, too… which may sound crazy for a guy who holds the PolyBrute as high as I do. But when I author sounds with it, I have the opposite experience. It is just so capable of giving me what I want when I make my own sounds. And, when I had the “identify the Minimoog” contest awhile back, most people, even Minimoog owners, chose the PolyBrute! But still- it doesn’t matter what a synth is, or what people think of it… if it doesn’t work for you or to your ears, it’s a bad choice… I totally agree.

[@roggyo]

@@automaticgainsay Maybe I should spend more time with it and as you said try to make my own sounds. That’s how you really become familiar with the synth and connect with it. But it’s impossible with YT demos and even in music stores, where you can try it just for limited time. But it’s not necessary that everyone likes some synth. You can look on it even as an advantage, because less musicians will use it in their music, so those of you who are using it, have more chance to stand out from the crowd with your sounds. Finally the fact that many professionals actually do like this synth, it means that it is a good synth, just it’s not for everyone, and it makes it even more special for those of you who like it. :)

[@julienward221]

Does a guitar sound thin compared to a bass? Does a violin sound thin compared to a trumpet? When I compare the MatrixBrute to the PolyBrute, just one vco has a richer sound on the MatrixBrute than on the PolyBrute. That's absolutely true. But so does just one string on my bass compared to one string at the same pitch on my guitar. I'm thinking that the one vco on the Polybrute sounds thin compared to the one vco on the MatrixBrute until I play 12 oscillators adding their individual weight. A single violin can't be as loud ans rich sounding as a single trumpet. That's why you have 12 violins for every trumpet in an orchestra.

[@ChristianGIUDICELLI]

Polybrute cool great sound.... Pace e Salute

[@rickimarvel4080]

Lol, this is why I don't pay attention to synth forums or comment sections😆 They drive me crazy with their insinuation that every synth is disappointing or " my synth that I own is better" convos. Gimme a break. Thx for GOING there though, you speak truth.

[@deanbridges572]

Do you work for Arturia ?

[@automaticgainsay]

Why do you ask?

[@lo-firobotboy7112]

Still sounds very digital to my ears. Reminds me of the old Curtis chips. I have a MicroBrute and really love it for what it does. The MaxiBrute just doesn't grab me.

[@MikkelGrumBovin]

If I could have 3 wishes... A Matriarch, a UDO 6, aaaand... A PolyBrute (and I will be a good boy mama!)

[@automaticgainsay]

To be honest, those are three amazing polysynths.

[@angelog.spicolaiii8021]

Uh u won't need any of those others if u get the APB & pair it with a Kurz dude.

[@angelog.spicolaiii8021]

..... that's my plan anyway oh yeah & a Steinway and the STG Soundlabs Polyphonic-1 dude.

[@majicboxstudios3996]

Go ahead and get that MOOG but prepared open up your wallet for a decent modular rig. I’m picking my teeth looking at that Matriarch with a nice grin on my face.

[@MikkelGrumBovin]

@@majicboxstudios3996 Its all about the Sound - and what you DO with the sound - I own 20+ synths , beside my basses and guitars - and , with 40 years of playing them - i STILL got surprised how GOOD the Grandmother SOUNDS ! (and i like the layout , it gives me joy to PLAY it) Now if i could have a patchable 4-note paraphonic analog synthesizer with a built-in Sequencer, Arpeggiator, stereo Ladder Filters, and stereo Analog Delay, that feels, reacts, and sounds like my GrandMother , i want it - im 50 years old - i only spend my money on music instruments - its the only thing , besides my kids , than give me pleasure and happiness - so showe youre grin , where Vitamin D is in so high demand ! - While im at it - The UDO 6 , simply sounds PHANTASTICK - (check out the YT-video where Matt Johnson from Jamiroqquai shows off the Jupiter 8 , and in his right hand - combo´s with the UDO 6 - and youll get why i want that UDO .... ;-) kzbin.info/www/bejne/iKCck4ajqd-MeZqd - The PolyBrute .... i BELIEVE Automatic GainStage said all I need to know - ...it doesnt sound one way - its the first ANALOG Polysynth , , that seems to have an army of gnomes inside it - working nonstop to change and amaze you with its -seemingly IMPOSSIBLE feats , of being able to - transforrm - this synth - like EFFING magick - into making ANY sound you never heard before , PLUS all the one you KNOW and LOVE ! Its simply AMAZING ! ...and i want amazing,-

[@joeanderson8839]

The poly brute does sound thin to me. When I listen to a simple sawtooth wave, it doesn't give me the full rich sound I expect to get from an analog keyboard. Maybe I need to play one in a showroom before I pass judgment.

[@automaticgainsay]

As I state in these videos in a variety of ways, a sawtooth is a sawtooth. If it seems deeper or thicker or featuring more bass, etc, it’s actually not a sawtooth. Extra frequency content in a waveform that goes outside the harmonic amplitudes of that waveform change the waveform. What typically gives a normal sawtooth a desirable character is the filter and amp. Which is awesome, but if your sawtooth has that character without any settings, you have a “character synth,” which can be great (like the Minimoog), but limiting because you’re stuck with that coloring no matter what. The PolyBrute was designed to give you all the character you could want (including genuine fatness), but it is a choice you make, instead of a character you’re stuck with. This gives it WAY more versatility in regard to timbre.

[@kotMekong]

Hopefully one day current "top ten" producers will realise they are making music for less than 0.000010% of this planet.

[@andyscott5277]

What’s funny is a lot of these producers, particularly Max Martin, produce music specifically for what they would consider to be "broad appeal." Personally I think the mistake is the act of making music for anyone, as opposed to following your own muse and idiosyncratic vision. They’re making broad assumptions, cycling through predetermined sounds, and ultimately chasing the dollar, instead of producing timeless music that pushes boundaries and challenges the listener.

[@MoltenMusicTech]

pop shield makes you look pro man, go with it

[@automaticgainsay]

In this, you'd think I hadn't been setting them up and using them effectively for decades. It might as well be for show!

[@DeiNostri]

Big swelling synth pads, possibly a synth choir, a blippy sound and a fat bass. Thats me, all me and I will probably still use my Novation Mininova for that (and sometimes a half bad free vst that sounds like 70ies-80ies horror movies).

[@mammyat80s21]

I totally understand the people who doesn't like the sound of this equipment. Put it side by side with an OB-Xa (with just 6 voice boards if you want) and you will understand what is to be thin.

[@automaticgainsay]

It’s fine not to like it, but it’s not fine to mischaracterize it. P.S. I’ve played an OBXA. A synth isn’t “thin” because another synth sounds good. Also, the strength of the OB synths isn’t that they’re fat.

[@automaticgainsay]

Curtis chips sound great, but they are not the definition of fat. Also, you didn’t watch the video.

[@Art-zs6sl]

So uh.. you like the PolyBrute?

[@automaticgainsay]

I guess. It's okay.

[@zerocrossing]

My favorite part of this post is that the four people who deemed it thin sounding have come here to 👎 the video.

[@MikkelGrumBovin]

Baaajouitifull 💪😎

[@Psychlist1972]

Nice

[@automaticgainsay]

Thanks, Pete!

[@soffter]

Ahh thank you for spreading the good word of resonant hipass filters for FAT GREASY BASS

[@GoblinWar]

People who've never mixed anything are always trying to get dark, fat sounds out of everything, but the first thing anyone does to a melodic guitar/synth in a mix is to throw a low pass filter on them because polyphonic things with a thick low-end sound like shit in a mix

[@automaticgainsay]

Yes, the desire for all synths to have a single tonal quality is ridiculous, and makes mixing a challenge.

[@surrogatemarker]

The Polybrute sounds thin as do all synths on my iPhone (without head phones) where most people watch KZbin videos about synths from people proving a synth does not sound thin. LOL