Does The Shapton 16K Glass Stone Chip Your Razors?

This is my Chef Knives To Go webpage where you can get the all the stuff I use including the Naniwas 12K Super Stone and the Shapton glass stones. www.chefknives...

[@iggychaffin]

Very interesting. Night and day when you got to the aggressive passes. Knowledge is power so thanks for sharing!

[@drmatt357]

Yes. Don’t know that I’d ever do that many but interesting to see what happens.

[@boostedbliss07MK5]

Very informative! Picture is worth 1000 words. Thanks for the solid info.

[@oldlifestylebyandrei]

I went through similar experiences, I learned my lesson and I finish on 12K SS underwater with very gentle movements. It is the best result I have reached.

[@drmatt357]

I've had a couple of guys contact me and I suggested they try to make a light slurry on the stone and they said that cleared up the problem. Give it a try and let me know

[@bobbyscalchi4013]

I have learned this through trial and error as well. Light pressure and under water gives me a better polish on the edge above 8k to 12k SS. Then, the ILR running water until sticky. Then I deburr and strop on denim and Mothers mag polish, then balsa strop on .25 diamond paste, mag polish strop again, then linen and latigo.

[@ChessKombat]

Hey Dr Matt. I am a guy starting to get in to straight razors during the quarantine. Being in to sharpening my own chef knives the logical step is to get in to razors next. I came on your channel and I really enjoy your format how you have a chat while you do your shave. This video is also really informative. I can't wait for a chance to enter the next give away or razor deal you get for us.

[@Kmcmichael1959]

I have used the 16k for a few years. It seems to work great on my meager collection off zwillings friudor razors.

[@daringlisson9353]

Wow! Love these type of videos from you Matt. I’d like to see this type of comparison with the ILR vs the Sharon and Naniwa. By the way I got the Sphinx soap I won from you and it smells amazing

[@goodtimes1046]

For outdoor knives, I've noticed the same inconsistent deep scratches on my SG 220. Story time; this is for @DrMatt357 I was playing with my new Gritomatic 120 trying to turn my Tops Tanimboca into a zero-degree scandi-grind. After using the Gritomatic 120 on the primary grind, moved to the SG 220. The SG 220 was cutting slower, but causing these weird inconsistently deep scratches. The Gritomatic 120 cut faster and had smoother consistent scratch patterns. The issue is if you move up from the SG 220 to a 400 grit, that stone will polish over the scratches instead of buffing them out. Between my experience and yours, I don't think I'll ever buy another Shapton Glass stone again. Also, I'm well aware I was doing needless rebeveling and polishing. It's what I like to do... DrMatt357, you have an underrated channel.

[@drmatt357]

Appreciate that and thanks for stopping by Mate!

[@1100STrider]

Thanks for this. Always thought the finer ones were better. Well done!

[@oldtexican6415]

Very informative, Dr. Matt. The other take away I got from this video besides the effects of over honing on a Shapton 16 glass stone is what you said at around 4:49 that you have seen the same thing happen on a coticule stone. I think that the real lesson is that the Shapton 16K stone gets the edge so thin and sharp at the beginning of honing that any continued contact with the cutting protrusions of the stone will chip the thin brittle metal of the edge. Thus the theory of over honing. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[@drmatt357]

That's one possible theory but I don't think it's as much as the razor's edge getting too thin but an issue with the stone because obviously the razor's edge was just as thin when using the Naniwa 12SS and it was fine.

[@oldtexican6415]

@@drmatt357 That makes sense, thank for the reply.

[@kcb5150]

Came into one of these with a lot. I will test it on some basic solingen out of curiosity but apparently the ground rules over time with this if you have to out a razor to it are the lap has to be really clean, super light touch and 5-8 laps near as I can see.

[@grishfish]

That's all I have.... the Naniwa 12K SS, DIA-Flat 95, and my strop. It makes my stone and straight razor maintenance simple and it works. I have to use the stone maybe once every 30 shaves or so. I always figured if my razor needed more work, I'd send it to you! ;) Cheers!

[@zackeryhardy9504]

I know the Shapton glass stones are supposed to be a harder stone. From my experience in my trade I usually find the hardness of material matters when it comes to how much it deforms other materials. In my trade that means I uses brass to hammer steel pins in place or bend steel piano wire as its not going to deform the steel, but I believe the same principle happens with sharpening. The Shapton 16k stone tends to advertise being a longer lasting stone with less ware and it would make sense to me that this would mean it would cause that kind of damage. The reason a strop works is because it is softer and has a bit more give in it allowing the metal to fold around and deform the surface a bit while the polishing compound takes material away and straitens it. I would hypothesize that softer stone would do a similar thing to a strop. Obviously a softer stone will be harder than a strop, but in side by side comparisons obviously this is on a spectrum. I know that shapton 16k stone is nice for establishing bevels and rounds on plane blades and a final polishing on a chisel. But those are much harder metals than what is desired on a razor. It would be interesting to do the same test with both stones on metals of varying hardness. For example try this on a rockwell 62 chisel and compare and even throw in a strop. I could certainly be wrong as I am basing this completely on how well my hand planes and chisels cut hardwood, but I think the distinction could be interesting. And if there is a difference, then what is the ideal stone for various harnesses.

[@mauriciolguin]

It's been a while since the last time I was sharpening a straight razor. I've been using a Boker Damascus made with powder steel and the edge of this razor is wonderful even after several shaves. I just use the strop one in while. I also have another Boker special edition that I don't use, it's too pretty for daily usage. However, I also have the Boker king cutter and that one I have to maintain daily with the strop and sharpen it quite often. Many years ago, when I used to use the king cutter, I realized that the Nortom 4000/8000 gave me a better result than the shapton glass 16000. Years after, I understood that there are differences in the way of measuring the grid and that these numbers only apply in the serial grid for each brand. But after seeing this video, I will never use my shapton glass stones with my expensive razors. These stones looks more suitable for knives.

[@manishbhoola]

Wow. That's a lot of 💵 saved just when I thought I need to take a climb up the grid ladder from my faithful Nainwa 12k. Thanks Doctor Matt !

[@drmatt357]

You're welcome!

[@bundubeard]

Damn....glad I caught this, I was considering some of those for my online store.

[@RKinNJ]

LOVE this video. I was in a debate with myself on what synthetics to go with in the beginning. I ended up getting a set of naniwa Chosera1k then Naniwa SS 3k 8k 12k and this video right here just let me know that I went with the right choice

[@drmatt357]

Indeed!

[@spencerpayne1788]

Dr Matt. Where do you stand on using paste to refresh the razor?

[@drmatt357]

@@spencerpayne1788 - it will definitely extend the life of the edge.

[@hammerstrut]

Shocking results!! Thanks for your vid, sir!!

[@DanielWorkshop]

I heard for ages about overhoning on razors but never understood how it could happen. Now looking at the scope pictures is obvious. :)

[@COMB0RICO]

I never knew about it!!! I did experience it, though. But I always attributed the phenomenon to poor technique on my part.

[@bobhorky1095]

Thanks again for sharing the information, very informative! Have a good day

[@fsusarge]

Good stuff as always, Matt. They can put their "Gold Dollar Steel Sucks" conspiracy to bed with this, as far as I'm concerned: by scrupulously practicing your techniques on my 5K/10K, I get as great a shave on my GD razor [$20, six months old] as I do with the old man's carbon-steel blade [handed down from HIS father at the turn of the century; the 20th century, asset cost unknown. They barely require stropping thanks to you. I am approaching nine months now and to paraphrase Vin Scully: "No cuts, no nicks, no errors!"

[@thesaskshaver]

Wow! Interesting results. Thanks for doing this and showing us your findings.

[@drmatt357]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@davesimpson796]

Typical, I've just seen this video after using my Shapton 16k. Always thought it was my ham fisted efforts at honing (which it may still be) as I was pursuing the higher the number the better the hone theme. I do have a Naniwa 12k so it will be kill the edge and start again on a Norton 8k. Although I do like what I see about the ILR but the shipping to little old New Zealand is eye watering ...

[@jamesheath7530]

WOW ! I could not believe this as I am a big Shapton advocate as they are supposed to have great quality control and I have never experienced anything like this but I am also a big Naniwa user and have never been able to tell much difference between the two. This is why I follow Dr. Matt. I will certainly be checking my results from all my Shapton stones from 1k to 30k.

[@drmatt357]

I don't think it's a quality control issue. I think it's just characteristic of the stone(s).

[@graysonrussell5910]

Dr Matt, I enjoyed your video on the 16000 shapton. In fact you kept me from purchasing one. Howard over at the perfect edge honed a razor for me about 8 years ago. He used a shapton progression on my razor, it was the 1000,4000,8000,16000 & 30,000. It was to this day the sharpest and smoothest edge I’ve ever had on a razor. After watching your video, I’m confused to say the least. Could you comment on this please?

[@diavalus]

Shapton is a fast cutting stone. When using one, you should limit to only a few passes on the stone, do not go more than 10 because it is useless and then the edge might weaken. That’s all. With other stones, you can do more passes as they are slow cutting.

[@stuartmaxwell6013]

I am also confused, because there is a video on here of Howard going through his progression, and he swears by these Shapton glass stones. He does at least 40 laps on the 16k by my reckoning and he goes at it hammer and tongs. I notice that at the very end of his process, after the 30k, he kills the edge - is that removing the chips? I don't get it.

[@jasonelwood4738]

The shapton 12k does the exact same thing. It will leave a rougher edge than an 8k. I read it has something to do with not particle size, but particle distribution, that does that to the edge. I also read it's supposed to be that way because the edge is better suited for knives if it's a little chippy.

[@mariohwoc]

Correct! That type of edge looks awesome for cutting tomato skin! It’s like a dream for kitchen knives!

[@DroneShotFPV]

while this is a y ear old, maybe you will see and answer this for me..... I use the Shapton Pro (Kuromaku) 12k as my finisher before a 0.5 micron Poly Diamond strop (jende nanocloth), but I don't do this for straight razors, only my pocket knives and Japanese Chef knives... I should be ok with these, just not straight razors, right? Thanks in advance!

[@jasonelwood4738]

@@DroneShotFPV You'll have the sharpest knife in town!

[@DroneShotFPV]

@@jasonelwood4738 I was just curious if my type of knives / uses would have this unfortunate edge destroying properties... But definitely I can tell you, since I have been using the 8k to 12k, then the Jende nano cloths, I have definitely had the sharpest knives in town! lol

[@LO-fm9dc]

Hey Matt. I returned a Shapton 16k glass back to the vendor after two uses for the horrendous scratch patterns. Didn’t like it all but I love the Shapton glass lapping plate. 👍

[@drmatt357]

I'm trying to figure out your avatar...

[@jeffhicks8428]

Great video Doc. Yea that thing ain't made for razors. Even the 12k Shapton pro would be better. The 30k shaptons are the razor finishers. It works about the same as the 12k Super (polishing) stone. Just get the 12k super stone folks, it's the best one and cost 1/3 of other stones that perform similar.

[@COMB0RICO]

I didn't know a person could over-hone! Thanks from Texas.

[@drmatt357]

Any time!

[@guysolis5843]

Wow! I was just about to pull the trigger on the 16k Shapton glass and 2 others in the series. Apparently these stones are for knife sharpening. Not sure if you heard of the ZWILLING J.A. Henckels10,000 and 5,000 Grit Glass but I've had a lot of trouble with these also. I got a variety of edges from the same steps and the shaves have been lack lustre, not sure why.. Thanks Matt..

[@Polartrucker]

Very interesting, nice video, I love the way you go about it!

[@drmatt357]

Thank you very much!

[@wross5961]

yeah I didn't have luck with my 16k shapton because running the finished edge on my finger nail produced toothy edge I didn't like because I had a keen edge then it was gone--forcing me to redo. So the next time I stopped at the old smith black arkansas then stropped--done deal.

[@niftytubeman]

The S glass stones get a bad rap. Something went wrong perhaps while lapping. Give the Shapton a rub with a coticle slurry stone dilute slowly one time or surface burnish lightly with a hard steel. They also cut too fast so jump strait to running water an five strokes. I use my SG hones to rub the next SG as i work a progression. 1K, diamond lap once in a while 1k laps the 3k, which laps the 6k, which laps the 8, the 10, the 16, the 30... rust eraser to rub swarf away. .... That said your 8k and one well chosen finisher plan is a keeper.

[@nicksharples3277]

I’m glad my feelings of my shapton 16k were shown to be justified. I stopped using it ages ago because of this. I now just finish funnily enough on the naniwa SS 12k😜. At first I thought it must be my technique that caused some edges to be harsh as hell when I used the shapton glass. After a while I could actually see it with just my eyes no loop or scope required. That’s how bad some of the scratches can be. When I worked that out. The shapton glass got set aside for my knives and plain irons.

[@drmatt357]

Great to hear!

[@xonerate]

Dr.Matt, Did You Try using Edge Trailing Strokes Only on the 16k.

[@JoshuaDeanHealey]

My Shapton 16 ceramic (non-glass) does wreck my edge on a dovo blade. It scratches the hell out of it.. you can see the scratches with a 30x loop

[@i2ossEmC]

This is interesting. Best edge I've ever used, personally, has been from none other than Max Sprecher and he uses the Shapton glass stones (with exception of the Chosera for bevel setting, I believe). I've also got a set of them on the way to me to see what kind of edge I can get myself. This should be quite the experiment after watching this. Thanks for sharing and look forward to more videos!

[@drmatt357]

I forgot to show in the video but I did a custom razor on the stone too and even it got a bit chunked.

[@anthonydo2011]

“I believe the shapton glass is better with fewer laps”. Tomo nagura recommendation* After 10-15 it starts the micro chipping. So I see more people who finish on shapton 16k use fewer laps like 5-7. Still refines(finishes) the edge but not by much, and stop right before the chipping. I would think max sprecher / Keith doesn’t “over hone” on the shapton finishers.

[@chuckb.5076]

Super interesting. Thanks Doc.

[@drmatt357]

My pleasure!

[@michaelp9238]

Do you have a video showing how you setup the razor for these microscope pics?

[@ared18t]

Looks like whatever they make the shapton glass out of doesn't just cut the steel but grabs it too. You might need a harder steel for it. I know they make a HC version for high Carbon steels instead of hr which is high alloy.

[@howardschechter9768]

Matt, did you lap the Shap16K before you started using it? There is a glaze when they're new. Reason I ask is that I use the Shap16 in my progression every day (8,000+ razors to date) and I have never gotten any chipping problems. Odd!

[@xonerate]

He might have to Try Lapping with a higher Grit.

[@mikeh4399]

Very interesting! Super informative! Thanks Dr. Matt!

[@drmatt357]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@trunkerdixon]

Glad i went with a Naniwa and an ILR when i had the cash for stones. Missed the 'chippy fucker' captions on the photos though ;) The Mother's Mag suggestion is interesting; i use that to polish aluminum gear i have and never thought about using it on a razor since i strop on a diamond pasted balsa-wood after a shave. Shave cloths are great and they last ages too. An essential part of my routine. T

[@drmatt357]

LOL!! I use Mothers all time for razors and the scales too. Works great.

[@JimWillShave]

That was a great video. Very enlightening

[@drmatt357]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@IAMCDB]

Very interesting indeed. Thanks for the video sir.

[@drmatt357]

You bet

[@aidanlozano6551]

Good info ! Going to miss my shave cloths!

[@drmatt357]

Your set will last forever Aidan!😉

[@judgetoogood1033]

Dr Matt have you tried the 30k Shapton stone.

[@RaymondMillbrae]

Kewl. Interesting. What would you recommend as a final polisher after the Naniwa 12k stone? A .5 micron paste on balsa wood?

[@drmatt357]

That would be it!

[@trollmcclure1884]

@@drmatt357 it's hard to get balsa reasonably flat. How do you flatten any wood without contaminating it with sandpaper on a glass?

[@michaelshults7675]

Nice info, Sir! I believe the Nan/12k is much finer than the 16k glass! I have found that I only use the Nan/12 at only a damped state and not pooled up water, when used at a barley damp state I find it finishes finer, and I will not chip the edge, because its a fairly soft stone, and it auto slurries. I finish with 25-30 passes on the Nan/12!! What kind of scope? Stereo? What brand? I wish they made a HC series in the 16k! The HC 8k is IMO one of the best 8k synth stones.The HC series is much more finer and polishes more than it cuts, if that makes sense, for a synth stone Thanks Mike

[@drmatt357]

Here's the scope:kzbin.info/www/bejne/amqog42fecd3oJY Is the HC the Shapton Glass that is gray? Someone gave me one of those but I never really used it.

[@michaelshults7675]

@@drmatt357 yes - sir, the gray ones. They are are not as aggressive and much more for carbon steels the 'white' HR are for super hard, wood working plane steel. The HC stone are more elastic, and forgiving. The HC still work on harder Swedish steel, and stainless. Which grit do you have in the HC? A 8k? Man I would like you do do a deep scope look at its finish after say 30 laps. I borrowed one (8k)from a friend on B&B and man that thing finished IMO like a 10k!! I don't have a scope just a 10x loupe , but it would be nice to see what it looks like. Thank you Matt. . Mike The one I use is the Kuromaku stones, they are good but I find they do scratch deep, for their grit rating. They are kinda like the Chosera stones, meaning the dame binder and all. Mine are still nearly 15mm thick and I have honed quite a bit on them. I am going to sell them and put up some more and buy the HC glass. Lol - unfortunately its a bad time of year to sell these puppies, they have been up for sale for 2 months on B&B.

[@m1k4c]

0:40 Wow, that's a giant crack!

[@DRACULARoo]

I can confirm the same thing. I have a 16k and never been able to shave comfortably by finishing on that stone, a real disappointment...

[@georgeyoung4292]

Shapton Glass is designed for the hardest of the PM steel with high carbide volume and Razors its exactly the absolute opposite!! Razor steel is by design with least amount of carbide forming elements to have highest edge stability!!! Research about stones you use... Its mentioned in every article what Shapton Glass was made for (Both HC and HR) and spoke about in every video!!! Its like taking a Ferrari off road and than actually being surprised that car got F'd up🙏 No offense... If i would recommend a great razor finishing stone its hands down Gokumyo series by Suehiro... 🙏

[@dsslogistics1277]

Hello! Love your channel! Can you please confirm which microscope you’re using to produce the best images I have ever seen here on KZbin. Is it still a DinoLite ? If yes, what model is it, cause I had it and couldn’t produce anything close to yours Thank you

[@drmatt357]

It is the Dino Lite, their 900 power one. Here is a video I did on it and the special is still good.kzbin.info/www/bejne/amqog42fecd3oJY

[@dsslogistics1277]

@@drmatt357 thank you! You really mastered it ! The before and after is night and day!

[@FRIGHTLINERDELUX]

Thanks for saving us a BIG headache :)

[@JeffSmith-eq3kc]

Interesting because in the knife world the Naniwa Super Stones don't really belong in the same discussion as the Shapton Glass Stones. The Super Stones are known to be crazy high in polishing agents and super slow cutting. I love my Glass 10k for carbon Japanese knives. For my razor I usually finish on Japanese natural but the Shapton Pro 12k also does a nice job in a pinch.

[@drmatt357]

Yes, I understand that Shapton came out and even said that the glass stones are for knives and not really razors.

[@JeffSmith-eq3kc]

@@drmatt357 interesting I didn't know that but it makes sense. It's definitely interesting the difference in a great honing stone and a great sharpening stone. The Shapton Pro stones feel incredibly dead with knives but do a nice job with razors and woodworking tools. One of my favorite stones for knives is the Suehiro Cerax 1k but it seems to load up quickly with razors. Two different worlds really! I am more a knife geek than a razor guy but I do enjoy honing and have been with a straight razor for a long time. Different tools require different tools to sharpen.

[@user-ch6ox4gi4o]

What a difference those stones show....I have to sharpen my Thiers-Issard blade soon and I have a Sharpton 8K and a ILR for finishing. Still a good idea?🤔

[@drmatt357]

Yes, for sure!

[@user-ch6ox4gi4o]

Thank you!

[@shawn_530]

Morning coffee at the shop is always better with Doctor Matt!

[@perniciouspete4986]

Shapton is known THROUGHOUT THEIR LINE for putting non-uniform sized grit in their stones. The larger sized grit included along with the "correct" sized grit leaves deeper scratches that can't be polished out. Consequently, you get a more jagged and less polished edge. Unfortunately, the only way you can see it is under a microscope.

[@glytch5]

I think what happens here is, you have taken the razor super fine... and then you are grinding the razor down to a lower grit... and you are probably creating a super tiny wire, and it is breaking off causing the chips... or some sort of steel formation from actually grinding down. Would the same happen going from a 8k to a 5k? probably... just not as badly because the edge is not as thin. Naniwa stones load up and bernish a TON compared to glass stones... That is my explanation. Super stones are hands down my favorite razor stones. They kinda suck for knives though.. because they don't grind and wear quickly!

[@drmatt357]

Good quest Max. I do it both ways when testing stones. The end point was the same if you came from a lower grit up to the 16 or down like I show. I just felt that the distinction wasn't as apparent because if you start from a 5K, you end up with something in the same range or there abouts.

[@TWalsh2]

I love when experiments give counter intuitive results. I have a Shapton 12k and would like to see that Vs the SS 12k. I don't suppose you have a Shapton 12k?

[@drmatt357]

I did many years ago and didn't like it, especially compared to the Naniwa 12K.

[@TWalsh2]

@@drmatt357 I wonder what effect stropping on the 16k stone rather than honing would have? so only spine leading strokes. Care to give it a go?

[@drmatt357]

@@TWalsh2 You mean trailing passes on the 16K VS leading? That may help but 2 things. Trailing passes can create a foil or false edge and my feeling is that if I have to jump through hoops to get it to work when there are cheaper better alternatives...

[@TWalsh2]

@@drmatt357 Yeah, trailing passing just like stropping on a leather strop. I only thought of this as the likes of Murray Carter say this type of sharpening is fine for anything and he shaves with swords and even spoons. I'd just be interested to see if we get another counter intuitive result.

[@xonerate]

I had one a while back; and I had one of the best shaves I have ever had. I think a lot depends on the lapping Process for the Kurumaku or glass Series.

[@peterjackson7473]

Purchased a Shapton 16K Glass a few years back and I could never get it to work. It's now used to surface finish my other hones after lapping them on a diamond plate.

[@drmatt357]

That’s funny Pete! Pretty expensive rubbing stone tho. 😆

[@peterjackson7473]

@@drmatt357 I know right. Didn't know what else to do with it. Maybe I could sharpen my axe with it?

[@drmatt357]

@@peterjackson7473 - Try and build a light slurry on the stone and finish that way. I’ve had a few people do that and they were able to get a decent edge. Let me know.

[@peterjackson7473]

@@drmatt357 Will try the slurry. Thanks. I got a pretty good shave by killing an edge and going 800 chosera, oiled norton ark then straight to the 16k shapton + a thorough stropping. If I come off my fuji 8k, 10k, 12k or any other polisher before the 16k shapton I can't get it to work.

[@venanzioandreozzi5476]

Complimenti per il video. Interessante. Quale microscopio usi? Grazie

[@drmatt357]

Here you go:kzbin.info/www/bejne/amqog42fecd3oJY

[@JT-nf9tk]

That was an eye opener Dr. Matt! Thanks for sharing it!

[@drmatt357]

Glad it was helpful!

[@TyghtAlso]

So, if you use it more than you would ever use it, it doesn't work like it's supposed to when you use it like you're supposed to. Sounds about right.

[@emremusovi1697]

Shapton 16k is same with naniwa 12 k? Both are 1 mikron

[@mauriciolacruz]

Hi there! Is this bad behaviour exclusive from the Shapton Glass 16K stone or do all the Glass series suffer from the same issue? 🤔

[@drmatt357]

Good question. Unfortunately I don’t know the answer as I was only able to get my hands on the 16 as that was the only one I heard the complaint about.

[@boostedbliss07MK5]

The ILR standard stone in 3 x8 is $90 how do you compare the ILR standard to the 12k Naniwa?

[@drmatt357]

First off, I recommend the 2X6 stone which is only $50 and use code DRMATT2X6 at checkout and save $5. If you had to choose which to get, the ILR or the Naniwa, I’d get the Super Stone first because I believe everyone should have a full synthetic progression and be proficient at using them prior to getting into natural stones.

[@jerbus7956]

So I see the issues with the 16K, do you think that it’s going to have the same issues with the 8K? I would hate to have bought the 8K only to find that it isn’t the best.

[@drmatt357]

Never tested an 8 or their 30

[@garyhaywood6013]

Thanks for doing this video, very interesting.

[@drmatt357]

You started the thought in my head Gary!!

[@garyhaywood6013]

Yes I did and much appreciated. The reason I asked you was , I kind of read between the post on 16k shapton and had a feeling something was not quite right from the feedback on the forums. Also I am sure the 8k shapton glass left a tiny chip or two on one of my razors. I used 60x handheld microscope and observed this but thought I may be seeing things . I’m very happy with the 12k Naniwa Gouken kagayaki

[@johncrigger6134]

I wonder if shapton 30,000 good?

[@e.c.knivesandrazors2840]

Do you have any videos on micro chipping? I've had some that seem to go away with palm stropping followed by canvas linen and I'm not sure if it's potentially a burr being removed( I do alternating full strokes,up down equals one stroke so a burr shouldn't be formed) or is the micro chip disappearing do to the edge being slightly rounded/compressed from the stropping making it less visible on a 250x field microscope(carson)?

[@drmatt357]

I think micro chipping depends on the magnification of the lens you're looking at it with. On my scope which is 1000X, little hippies are no big deal and will smooth out with linen/leather stropping. If you can see the chips with a hand held loupe or the naked eye, that's a problem!

[@BerserkeR_031]

I'm curious which microscope you used, i guess it's very expensive isn't it? :-(

[@drmatt357]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/amqog42fecd3oJY

[@larryseibold4287]

did you by chance reach out to Shapton for comment after you did your testing?

[@drmatt357]

I didn’t Larry but other people told me they have and they pretty much said that their glass stones may not be the best for razors!

[@joelwoods2064]

How far back in the progression would you need to go in order to fix the problem caused by the Sharpton Glass stone?

[@drmatt357]

Good question. I would think if it's of normal use (not an aggressive 50 passes with half strokes) killing the edge at 8K then bring it back would work fine.

[@reddenw5501]

What is the highest grit of Shapton Glass stone that is properly made? Are their 6K and 8K stones made properly?

[@drmatt357]

I regularly use the 2,5 & 8. Had a 12 and sold it. Obviously this 16 isn't W.A.S. and the 30K is ridiculously priced and the Naniwa 12K SS does an equal or better job at a third the price.

[@argumedosergio7064]

The shapton glass was laped propertly Wright...??

[@drmatt357]

Yes, of course!

[@fredthynne6815]

Great video, but now I am worried about my 30k Shapton, and I am still trying to get an HHT after 3 months of working on this.

[@drmatt357]

I've never used the Shapton 30K Fred. The $350+ price tag made me shy away. Feel free to send me the stone and razor if you want and I'll inspect them to see what's up.

[@fredthynne6815]

Thanks for the kind offer. I have to settle myself down. Have been all over the place with this...purchased a coticule, found I already had one that I purchased in 60s, have a hard black ark. that I resurrected to try, purchased Waterstones, and the only time I popped a hair was when I didn't know what I was doing, and sharpened the razor backwards! Great Fun I have been having!

[@trollmcclure1884]

@@fredthynne6815 Edge trailing strokes are good. It will result in foil burr but it can be removed in 3 steps. Check out electron microscope guy at scienceofsharp.com I found his article of "removing the burr" helpful. If the stone leaves no eye visible scratches it's probably ok. You just have to imagine what's happening.

[@fredthynne6815]

@@trollmcclure1884 Thank you. The article looks informative, will read. I've been wondering about honing backwards, ever since that first time.

[@trollmcclure1884]

@@fredthynne6815 You're welcome. Actually here's the article, not the one on the main page. It's kinda hard to find over there. scienceofsharp.com/2016/04/14/simple-straight-razor-honing/

[@HeyYoMikey]

This is excellent for learning. I would assume half strokes even on an 8k (shapton or Naniwa) would have a similar effect?

[@drmatt357]

I don't know about the Shapton 8K glass but certainly not on the Shapton pro/ceramic 8K or Norton for that matter. Haven't used a Naniwa 8K SS.

[@richardrerossi7484]

What about doing an identical test with the 30000 Shapton Kuromaku???

[@drmatt357]

over rated, over priced stone. The Naniwa 12K Super Stone puts a better edge on a razor and a third of the price.

[@richardrerossi7484]

@@drmatt357 yes but what about doing an objective test to see with microscope the true putting off opinions? Clearing controversial opinions!👇 A lot use this very expensive stone and would be interesting see what really happened to the edge with the microscope!

[@drmatt357]

@@richardrerossi7484 - I've done it and the 12K Naniwa looked better but if you like the edge you get from your stone and don't mind the extra cash you have to pay, then great. If you want to send me your stone, I'll be glad to take some pics of an edge off of it or better yet, send me the stone and an edge that you've done and we can compare to the Naniwa.

[@richardrerossi7484]

@@drmatt357 ok if you have done I will shut up. I wanted buy one because cO read on some post wonderfull opinions about the 30000Shapton kuromaku. Anyway I will not buy until I will see a video proving is good. Let me tell there is a guy made a video on Irl imperial La Roccia Premium showing microchips, striations.scratches on the razor and made a video saying 16000k glass stone is good. I prefer believe that both these stones are horrific but you can watch the video of Irl premium and probably change your opinion! I think this stone worth nothing looking at the damages did to the razor. But just you can understand why for you perform good looking at this video! Keith vs Johnson videos#!

[@lanceberry867]

I trust your judgement Doc, 100%

[@jackkatzman1116]

Would you have the same results when using slurry on certain stones?

[@drmatt357]

That’s a good question. I believe that by using slurry, you would ease some of that chippy edge thing and it would be smoother. Problem with that is you also lose some of the keenness to the edge with the slurry.

[@american1911]

I think Shapton has a document that states the 16K is not recommended for razors.

[@drmatt357]

I've heard that but never saw it but thank you for the comment!

[@j.c1650]

No way i was thinking of getting my razors hone and getting some of Sofias cloth

[@polak3022]

How would you rate SG 30K as finishing stone

[@drmatt357]

Way over-rated! Barely better if at all from the Naniwa 12K SS but 3X the price.

[@xonerate]

I could be Wrong, but I think a lot of People Start with various 1000k Stones ; and don’t get good results at the Finishing Stages. The Chosera 1k You mention must be the best. Kind of like building a House, The ‘Foundation’ is the most important.

[@Samuel-ge7im]

Nice video

[@drmatt357]

Thanks

[@georgeyoung4292]

Shapton Glass is way too agresive to be used on Straight Razors.. Its designed for super hard high alloy modern PM steel!?? If you want really the ultimate polishing/finishing stone, get Suehiro Gokumyo 20k..Its the true Champion of all finishing stones🙏 But there is a problem... 😔 Its 315$ problem but its worth every cent (IMHO)..

[@GaZzBenKo]

How about the original shampton 1st generation?

[@drmatt357]

I gather you mean the ceramic or pro stones that have different colors. I use the 2,5 and used the 8 and no problems. Had a 15 and didn’t like it. At the time I didn’t have the same microscope to see what it looked like but that’s when I changed to the Naniwa 12K Superstone.

[@razormichl2004]

super video !!!

[@drmatt357]

Thank you very much!

[@gugion]

What about the Shapton 32k?

[@drmatt357]

Never tried it but to me, the price is ridiculous!

[@dujest1]

But this is horrible results! We are not talking about some cheap stone we are talking about shapton them are really expensive Stones. I wasn’t never really Fan of them sharpening Stones but this is serious . That shit is costing 140€ . Thank you very much dr.Matt 👊🏻

[@drmatt357]

That would be correct! Thanks for stopping by Mate!!

[@user-ch6ox4gi4o]

And offcourse I meant Shapton...

[@GearCave]

Why did I spend so much on the 16k Shapton =(

[@drmatt357]

I think it will work better if you make a little slurry on it first. Give it a try and report back.

[@GearCave]

@@drmatt357 WIll do thanks.

[@GearCave]

@@drmatt357 WOW, man I did what you said with the slurry, and honestly this is probably the best shave I've had. You can't even feel it gliding over your skin. I even applied alcohol after and ZERO sting. I mean this is nuts.

[@stevenbusch9336]

Dr. Matt!!! 🔥🤘🏼🔥

[@lowcountryclimber91]

In light of this video…do you still stand by the Shapton 8k like you did in this video? Or would you say to use the shapton first, but don’t use the Shapton 16k for the finisher? m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/mYm5iJKJa7uUeNk

[@drmatt357]

Yes. In that video, I used a Shapton Pro or what they also call a Kuromaku. Those are totally different than the Glass stone in this video. And I don't like the Shapton finishers, even the pro stones. The Naniwa 12K Super Stone can't be beat.

[@lowcountryclimber91]

@@drmatt357 thanks for the quick response! You da man!

[@trickedouttech321]

To my eyes, somthing is not looking right here. The scratch pattern and the (chips) presented on the blade in the photos, including the micro large bends in the blade. Do not fit the pattern on the blade. With some common sense and a little experience, anyone could see the photos to the description & scratch patterns are not adding up. However for this to be the case the viewer has to be looking with unbiased eyes. I personally have never touched a Shapton stone ever. I'm an Ark and Naniwa guy. I also am not saying a Sharpton 16k can or cannot chip a blade. What I am saying from 20+ experience sharpening with a microscope as I do electronic work and have always had a good scope. In these photo's the chips and bends in the blade edge do not look as if they came from the same stone that put that scratch pattern on the blade. Not saying how this guy did this. Just say it was not done how he states it was done.

[@drmatt357]

I rubbed the razor back and forth on the stone then took a picture of it. Give me some time markers as to specifically which ones you’re talking about.

[@realrazors8235]

And yet the story would completely change if he started getting a cut from the sales of Shapton Glass Stones. Don't trust anyone who has a motive for altering the results depending on revenue streams. Wanna know how to alter the results from any hone? Just change the pressure. I can set a bevel on a Naniwa 12k SuperStone. I can put a shaving edge on virtually any 1k hone. How? By proper use of pressure. Wanna make a hone you don't sell look bad? Just jack up the honing pressure.

[@drmatt357]

So you're implying that I'm getting paid based on the results? By who? I don't sell either of these stones. Chef Knives To Go does (both the Naniwa AND the Shapton Glass) which I have no financial ties to. And the pressure was the same on both stones.

[@peterjackson7473]

@@drmatt357 By responding to this guy you gave him everything he wanted. Thanks for the truthful informative vid Doc.

[@stubbybutt8839]

the stone must be loosing chunks of

[@bobhorky1095]

Thanks again for sharing the information, very informative! Have a good day