Does the USA Want Rugby?... With Former United States Boss, Gary Gold

[@thewizzard1588]

Great chat. Feel like 30mins is too short for a convo like this though

[@zachpowell977]

Look. I'm a 3rd generation American rugger. There are more rugby players in the US than any other country on earth. We are purposely being shadowed away from the public by the other big sports in this country. There are unions in every state. USA Rugby is run by a bunch of greedy arseholes and so is world rugby. It's not that people in the USA are just not choosing rugby. They are being steered away from it. Now NRL is moving in. The Vegas tournament is as popular as ever, and there are more RL clubs than there ever has been. USA/World Rugby needs to get it together

[@katana723]

I'm commenting to add to this: the community game is MASSIVE especially in California. Games every weekend, socials and many good times are had in the Bay Area and LA/SD.

[@phoebus007]

That's very heartening to hear because, although the professional game is obviously important, it's the amateur game with its social side that differentiates rugby from many other sports, with teams and supporters from both sides getting together after matches. I lived in the States for a couple of years on exchange with the US Army and I gained the impression that team sports through school and college seemed geared towards getting players into the professional teams, with little in the way of amateur team clubs for those who didn't make the grade at each level. Even within the military, the Army v Navy football game was between cadets at West Point and the Naval Academy. Where were the unit sides? In Britain, we have great competitions in most team sports between regiments/battalions.

[@TheAussieb0b]

Jim you could do with a chat with Mike Friday. As the sevens seems to has hit the floor running.

[@daaichommie708]

Being saying it since 2005. If The US made a genuine push to be competitive in rugby, and I mean a genuine push. Within 20 years they would be knocking on the top teams' door and overtake them soon afterwards. They have the talent pool, the funds, the infrastructure, everything! Unfortunately (Or fortunately) it's all about the $. All major US based sports poach all the potential talent and pay big, so it makes Rugby un attractive to sportsmen and the audience as well. Doesnt help their cause that they're on a completely different time zone with no serious local competitors at the top level other than the Argies.

[@PhansiKhongoloza]

Only if they begin to attract South African players and coaches.

[@2011hwalker]

@@PhansiKhongoloza US athletes make more money playing at *university* than professional rugby players. Why would they play a brutal game like rugby for peanuts when you can make millions in american football by 21 years of age.

[@PhansiKhongoloza]

@@2011hwalker That's short sighted. Rugby is far more enjoyable and demands way more skill than those American sports. Baseball is boring. Basketball is crap. American football is rubbish! Cheers

[@2011hwalker]

@ Basketball is 10x bigger sport globally than rugby. Its not "crap" lol. Basketball is a lot more skillful than rugby, its not even close.

[@seamus9750]

South Africa have surely earned the right to host another world cup competition.

[@toma411]

Don't need to focus on SA every comment section bud :)

[@haydengoodall6767]

Nope.. No SA hasn't.

[@PhansiKhongoloza]

Imagine the corruption this time around! The 2010 soccer world cup was bad enough. Rugby is all South Africa has left. There is nothing else there which could even be construed as successful.

[@Edge81]

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[@JaemanEdwards]

Promise to not give the All Blacks food poisoning again and it's a deal

[@lahlon]

I’ve played and/or coached rugby in the United States for 50 years. There is a tremendous amount of interest in rugby. The sport continues to grow the biggest issue we need is to get younger players into the game. Will rugby ever be larger than American football it’s not going to happen And anyone who says it will is being foolish. There’s too much Headstart and too much money in American football too many of the best athletes are still going go there. We can still grow the game. We need to make an American style of rugby and stop trying to copy England or South Africa or New Zealand. We need to make it the American style

[@redneckReno]

nailed it on the financials Jim!

[@guyfaux3978]

Here's a thought: You have all these MLS stadiums that could use an event taking place on the weekends that the home team is away. The question is whether the futbol team might worry that their tenant might be more popular in time.

[@jayknox-crichton3130]

Great info and insight into USA rugby, followed several development programs with the belief that it can lift off but so far it is not to be

[@siyabulelamanona1438]

Only 15min in but would love perspective on.... A question not yet being investigated is, how is the constent rule changes effecting its introduction to a new consumer/audience base?

[@grantcombrink9595]

A rugby game is far to short for the major TV channels to generate advertising revenue. The game flows longer than football abd thus also less time to go for a break for ads. My understanding is that football game is an hour long but the game itself can last on average for about 3 hours. And thats not taking into account pre and post TV coverage.

[@bodysystemz]

The only way that will work is if a investing company will offer college and university students a rugby scholarship alongside their normal school sport and education, once they finished the student has signed a contract to that company/institution as their "Agent" if they go professional, as they gain popularity within their state, the school/university also will receive recognition as the students college/university where they started,

[@redneckReno]

need to catch em young to hone the skills in any sport and there needs to be the promise of gold at the end of the tunnel

[@redneckReno]

In order to compete with the NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL you need to pay the players enough to make a good living when putting you body at risk. The youth need to know they have a pathway to make a living (for a time) in Rugby. Plus we have LaCrosse now taking up the interest of the youth. Huge Rugby fan, Former player-coach from the U.S. here

[@scroopynooperz9051]

Lol what the hell is Lacrosse? They should layeet those girly sports with the shoulder-pads and the lipstick and face paint and play some manly sports. Why even bother with that stop start NFL stuff when they can have a flowing, more interesting rugby game? It the USA brought their big money and large athletic base to the party for Rugby, they would be a force to be reckoned with in no time.

[@SmcdMcd-d2k]

Sorry, but this isn’t correct.. the rugby players make very good money and have very decent living. It’s just in America salaries or massively inflated due to the amount of commercialism that is involved with your sports. NFL is only popular in America. An average football game takes watch 4 to 5 hours if you’re watching on the television there is countless commercials and advertising that all attributes to salaries and how the salary packages are made up and ownership of Teams. Your acting as if the rugby players are on pennies they’re not for a sport that’s not as developed worldwide and for a sport that’s only competitive in Exn amount of countries they’re actually paid quite well. I think the highest is probably 1.5 million a year which isn’t as much as an NFL player, but it doesn’t need to be. You don’t understand the mechanics of both sports if you’re making comments like that. Ticket sales and revenue are the two main sources of income . There were currently over 30 active NFL stadiums which have a very large capacity. It’s not the same in rugby at all so go back to the maths and think about our comments again.

[@2011hwalker]

100% Nowadays US athletes can make more money playing at university than professional rugby players. Why would they play a brutal game like rugby for peanuts when you can make millions in american football by 21 years of age.

[@andreemurray7039]

Great chat I think rugby could learn a lot from the Nfl size of crowd's the marketing

[@SmcdMcd-d2k]

I don’t think it would actually because if you think about it NFL is predominantly popular across Europe and other rugby continents like the southern hemisphere during Super Bowl time it’s not really a lot of marketing that goes in our side of America and marketing can only be specific to certain countries as well way too commercialised to even begin to approach it in the same sentence as rugby. if rugby can learn from Auntie sport it’s probably football as in the real football soccer they’re global and actually if you break down the figures more an average six nations game gets around 4 million viewers average NFL game gets around 17 but that’s relative to the population of America which is over 330 million people not everyone in Europe has a rugby country it’s only a handful that participate are competitive levels so an actual fact the rugby has better figures

[@Esse-vp1bc]

Does USA deserve rugby? I'd say not. They are too fond of NFL which shows a nation of poor judgement, like grown men wearing white socks, with TV commercials put 1st. They also think an oval race track is how to do motor sport.

[@robcrocker348]

Awesome discussion Jim, my take on this is that the RWC '31 is going to be a watershed for rugby union(make or break), personally I think at the moment it's going to be a absolute disaster, I'm not being biased here at all but seriously it's time to bring the RWC back to SA

[@markwillies7666]

I don't it will be a disaster.I think crowd support will be big but it won't give much Impetus to American rugby. Doesn't look like the RWC will ever come back to SA.

[@joeritchie2]

Gold’s a bit behind when it comes to American sports. With the fairly recent advent of NIL (name, image and likeness) deals, many college athletes now are getting paid pretty big bucks - as much as professional rugby players who aren’t capped internationals or big stars in countries not named France or Japan. At schools like Ohio State, Alabama, Michigan, Oregon, Georgia and Texas, football and basketball players, even some women, are earning seven figures a year now, not just scholarship (bursary) money.

[@KamogeloRakgalakane]

Why are we obsessed with America theres a whole world out there that would love rugby America will only take rugby serious when the game is spread around the world better which means more financials.

[@goblin3val]

1. American money 2. American influence

[@michaelcoyne3700]

DOLLARS

[@JanSanono]

Biggest market on earth. Just making rugby a somewhat popular college sport would probably be more valuable than England which at the moment is rugby’s most valuable market. Should definitely be more of a push to grow the game in South America though.

[@5cisr]

Here in the US it is not about rugby, its the fact that Americans love football, basketball, baseball, hockey etc. No-one I know even knows what rugby is, or could care less to find out. It would be better to promote the sport in developing countries where there is at least a chance of penetration into the respective sports markets. If soccer cant make it, Rugby never will. The bottom line is that the US sports market is saturated with quality sports, so much so that there is no pathway for rugby, soccer, cricket etc to compete.

[@KamogeloRakgalakane]

@5cisr good point🔥

[@contactdaffodilmachete7282]

JIM - Just watched the Mack Hansen debate and 2025 unlikely events videos on the Rugby Pod. When are you finally going to use your platform and speak out at the right time, publicly and clearly against partisan refereeing against non-traditional powerhouse teams, in particular Scotland? Doesn't matter how good the team is or whether Dan Biggar thinks we are dark horses, if the man in the middle or TMO turns the game. The list is endless and the last one was the Autumn international against SA. This really needs a press blast BEFORE this six nations, to keep the officiating honest and balanced. Scotland would have won last year, would have had a WC semi against Argentina. Think what that success and those sliding doors moments could have done for the game in Scotland. Mack Hansen's comments were bang on and echo the frustration of every Scotland rugby fan. DO IT, PLS. A bigger problem for Scotland than reserve TH or hooker.

[@glennvanzyl4066]

She is the poster child of😊 rugby almost like De Pont, World Camps is not in someones country you have to compete against the best

[@tonic8945]

Americans don't really play International team sports apart from the Olympics and the need for advertising kills television coverage IMHO

[@riethaaadjiet3214]

Gary was the worst coach at province

[@frontierlandfrank5314]

He was terrible as the US coach.

[@redneckReno]

I don't question Gary's dedication to winning, but I do question his tactics. His kick first SA style was super boring.

[@Adambomb748]

SA style is a work in progress. The African players have brought a whole new style to the SA game starting with Rassie in 2019 , so comparing US rugby to SA is a little off. He was trying the forward dominant style of playing on the front foot

[@coatknight]

​@Adambomb748 the African players?

[@Adambomb748]

@ yeah , the black Africans have brought a whole new dimension to the team.

[@andreduplessis9465]

The atletes will make money in college sports now due to NIL

[@MrOliverwoods]

For the most part, GG has most things right. If you could make a dime selling anything in the states it will get sold but they can’t sell the game. On the other hand, American football relies on huge government subsidies to exist. There are 1.4 ml. HS players @$1500 in equipment costs. That means HS’s are holding $2.1 billion in equipment assets at a bare minimum. There might be more people in the US hired to maintain football fields than there are rugby players.

[@frontierlandfrank5314]

American football (nfl) is not subsidized by the govt. The majority of hs equipment comes from fundraising/ticket sales to games. This idea of it being subsidized by the govt is wildly untrue. Your numbers are really really off.

[@MrOliverwoods]

@ where is this you are talking about ? And my numbers on equipment sales and costs came from a football equipment manufacturers association website. Let’s say one man cleans up, paints the lines, maintains the grass, and fixes problems at every HS football field in the US ? What’s that cost ? What’s insurance cost ?

[@frontierlandfrank5314]

@ the US. The federal Govt doesn’t provide money for sporting costs. Heck they don’t even fully fund education that’s left to the states. Majority of the equipment used outside of the top 1% of schools are old equipment that’s been there for years. Majority of fields are not grass. They’re turf to lower overall maintenance costs.

[@MrOliverwoods]

@ public school sports (and the AD) are paid for by public funding and are an extra-curricular activities that have nothing to do with education. Again, where do you run a HS football program strictly with cookie sales and booster club fund raising ? I bet the school you name will take about two minutes to prove they use substantial funding from the school.

[@frontierlandfrank5314]

@ you original comment said these programs function on huge govt subsidies that’s objectively not true. Schools are funded by the taxpayer of the location they’re in. The majority of programs fundraise for their gear. I can promise you, up until HS the govt is not giving money out for football. Even in HS, programs aren’t getting money for football from the govt. ticket sales to games and other things funds programs. You’re talking about this like you have zero idea how the US sports system even works.

[@AllInTheGame01]

Purists would hate it, but IF Rugby was literally just one Code (no league & union split) and was the simplest version of the sport possible i.e. 7s or 10s, it'd be even bigger than it currently is as a Global Sport & would make cracking huge untapped markets (USA, Central/Eastern Europe, West Africa & South America) so much easier!

[@brunolopez8614]

That's exactly why i prefer 15. want rugby union to grow but not like that. Those who want to change it don't like it.

[@AllInTheGame01]

@@brunolopez8614 Can you elaborate a little more pls?

[@michaelbrady-j8z]

Jim leave America alone the country is vast . How many different time zones in America.the only way that world rugby is talking is for money . How can you move 24 teams and supporters around that vast country .what about the cost .you can be sure Americans wont loose money

[@mephistoXFC459V]

If winning is so important to Americans. why is 'soccer' so popular?

[@frontierlandfrank5314]

It’s not.

[@katana723]

@@frontierlandfrank5314 Women's/girls soccer is INSANELY popular, by far and away the most popular women's sprot

[@redneckReno]

I think wrestlers would make good rugby players

[@christianmccann9400]

Does Rugby want a US type of Rugby ..

[@Badlighter]

No, thank you. The quality and thrills of the quarters and semis of the RWC 2023 surpasses any of the US sports and soccer/ football which are all simply more hyped up and dressed up media friendly

[@johnhanson5943]

Definitely NOT!

[@romainviry3185]

No !

[@frontierlandfrank5314]

@@Badlighterquarter finals aren’t that great. Semis are for sure. But playoff football is way way better in build up and marketing. Not to mention, quarters and semis are always the same teams every year and the semis and finals are basically predetermined before they play.