Does this 'average cyclist' fit his aero race bike? - Full Bike Fit

[@8rk]

It would be great to have some of these riders back with their new bikes!

[@michaelburns732]

Thank you for the bike fit & your expertise, James. Officially answering the question deep down I already knew the answer to 😂. Some serious memories & great rides were had on the Vitus though, thanks to the bro Luke.

[@Jcjcjc99]

What did you change to?

[@One_mole_worth]

Thanks for sharing your experience with us. Very vulnerable experience and super important information covered!

[@tonyjennison3199]

Round of applause for this guy for going for a bike fit, I stand in front of my PC in respect. I wish him many joyful peddle turns to the point that he needs another bike fit, and another, and then another, and then a long life. I have been that shape, I've also been nine and a half stone, with a built in engine. Respect to the man.

[@glennoc8585]

To think he can be in Thailand get back for bike fits is truely remarkable 😮

[@FabOnABike]

This "Average cyclist" is basically me. I just sold my Canyon and went back to my older cheaper Gravel bike with a more relaxed position. Unfortunately as long as we weight nearly double the guys these bikes were made for, we won't fit on these and will only feel pain, cramps etc. We're fully aware of our larger bodies, but sometimes need to be brought back to earth as we do not have the movements and flexibility. An upright position is not "aero", but it doesn't hurt and we can still ride as far as our fitness brings us. Inexpensive bikes sometimes are better than expensive ones.

[@aljaliah6868]

#KeepRiding #JustRide

[@leerichy6489]

Respect for all the people who appear on the show, they put themselves in the firing line when they don't have to. He knows he's carrying weight around his waist that is hindering his position on that bike, they take no prisoners. Twelve months from now could be a different story.

[@tonyjennison3199]

this is wisdom

[@Mikadobiscuits]

I hope your going to do a follow up video with this chap

[@aljaliah6868]

Good idea being that there was a lot of chemistry going on , charming relaxed fella

[@Gramkan]

I can see why he purchased that bike, it looks sick, complete passion purchase with no thought 😂

[@Chris-jc3lr]

not watched yet but fairly sure the answer is going to be no

[@br5380]

Needed 8cm more stack and 5cm less reach - basically bought the wrong bike, but from the minute James had adjusted the jig to be the same as his bike it was bleeding obvious he’d bought the wrong bike.

[@mvp_kryptonite]

One conclusion that he himself said!

[@johnfarr5415]

Ahh finally a fit with someone more my...shape. lol Man watching these videos really makes me want to fly to London and get a bike fit.

[@jasonlinn]

Thanks to your videos, I got a bike fit before buying my road bike. Money well spent!

[@StacyODell]

I am so glad I decided to get a proper bike fit before purchasing my first bike. Although my ideal geo resulted in *severely* limiting my choices of bikes, I am very happy with how everything fits now.

[@aamj50]

A valuable takeaway from this vid is that a "fast" bike that doesn't fit is slower than a "slower" bike that you can ride comfortably.

[@redgar6467]

Well done. I am thinking I may need to plan a European vacation to get a bike fit by James!

[@rhythmace1]

Great to see more of what the bike fit process entails. Getting some foot pain with my new road setup so I think I'm going to push the button and book one for myself!

[@Simonewhitesim-1music]

One of your best videos. Really shows what a great bike fitter knows and can do. The plus is you are intelligent and funny. Thanks for a great video.

[@VishnuRajendranAmboo]

Bro you are the GOAT of bike fitting!! Ride safe in Thailand!

[@aubreyxengland]

everyone deserves a good fit - regardless of size or shape. Glad you got him sorted James!

[@denysmaksymets1199]

Does James do MTB fits? Would be great to see some on the channel

[@winterwatson6437]

if i remember the shop he works with just works with drop bars

[@frankchan5547]

Contador at his peak was 175 cm, 63 kg. Mens pro peleton average weight is below 70kg

[@matthewobrien5348]

Love the bike fit videos and as an amateur cyclist and bike build enthusiast myself…….why not suggest a frame swap so he can keep the groupset and deep carbons? And just sell the Vitus frame?

[@richardhaselwood9478]

Great video James. As a middle aged bloke, I've been on the endurance geo train for 15 or more years.

[@MrBackfischTv]

Everyone: choose your bikefitter carefully!! I just got a bike fit BEFORE buying a new bike and he suggested an optimal Stack/Reach of 1.3, something that is more aggressive than the most aggressive bikes, and didn't ask me once how I felt on the bike. Now I know less what I want and need than before. What I'm trying to say: it can be a waste of money if not done properly, but I guess viewers of this channel already know that!

[@MrBackfischTv]

On that note: it would be interesting to see how James fits someone without a bike, so before buying something new....

[@michael1]

It's definitely a waste of money. That would be true whether it worked or not (and it mostly doesn't)

[@abedfo88]

Strip the bike, sell frame, pick up 2nd hand frameset of ebay that fits. Job done.

[@Bukoe]

I ended up on a gravel bike as it was the only bike where I really hit the measurements I needed to be comfi on the bike.. also gave me more flex on the areas I can ride in..

[@NewtOrelands]

Could we see, some "bike fits" with Riser, flat and swoop bars, as well. I have a person, is struggling with fit. i almost want to suggest, Ape Hangers and a Banana Seat, like an old Schwinn Crate?

[@NewtOrelands]

Please feel Free, to LAUGH Aloud. But, I almost want to suggest a Recumbant.

[@OxCycles]

A familiar story - good on this guy for agreeing to put himself out there and being honest about an expensive mistake. James, other than a Pinnerello X or an Endurace, what bikes are high end, light, but also have a decent stack height with a short reach?

[@AnderGdeT]

A high-end Defy, maybe? Not the most inspiring, but...

[@OxCycles]

Yeah - trying to avoid the Defy, Domane and Roubaix. I just don’t like a lot of the extra features they add on. Thinking about a Caledonia 5, or a gravel bike with road wheels - Scott Addict?

[@br5380]

Look at gravel bikes. I ride an On One Free Ranger, for both gravel & road with 2 wheel sets; 1 with 42mm gravel tyres, the other with 30mm Schwalbe Pro One.

[@AnderGdeT]

@@OxCycles I don't think the Defy has a proprietary feature (like Isospeed or Futureshock), just a gentler geometry. A gravel bike might or might not have a suitable geometry (usually more relaxed than road, yes, but "competition" gravel exists), and for the common amateur there shouldn't be any noticeable performance loss with road wheels. I ride 32mm tyres anyway on my Defy.

[@jasonhurst2491]

@OxCycles I'm a big Scott fan and have a 2019 Addict 20 endurance geo road bike, but have repeatedly hesitated to go for their gravel bikes. Scott are notoriously long (road or gravel) for a given size and their gravel bikes are deliberately more aggressive than some. They market them as gravel racers for the most part. Lovely machines, but check the geometry very carefully first. I believe the most recent version has been made longer again and marketed as racier than before. Unless you are at the top end of a given size category you may need to size down to have a comfortable reach and then you'll have an even more aggressive front end because the size down will be lower.

[@Jacob99174]

This guy is very very good! 👍🏿

[@michael1]

He's like the "average cyclist" in much the same way that 4 pizzas, 3 roast chickens, 6 fries and a 2 litre bottle of cola is the "average lunch"

[@S2Sturges]

James should do a series of pop up clinics here in Thailand once he gets finished with his Chiang Mai / Phuket tour... Shedloads of cyclist here in CM that would be keen

[@flamencoguru]

An absolute must again... Bike fit before you buy a bike!

[@jaslevartri]

As always, another great video! 🙌

[@LauraTrevellyan]

what to do about foot / front wheel overlap ? Little is said about this seemingly important issue.

[@anthonyguglielmino971]

Looking forward to my session in January, ready for 2025 adventures….. 👍 pretty sure a pair of Lakes are coming my way, happy if that’s what’s needed 👍

[@jim2111]

The man's quac shoes and Assos kit cost more than my bike. Think it's time for me to get a new bike.

[@Mincher]

All the gear. No idea.

[@michaelburns732]

@@MincherNot the case at all, William. You have yourself a great weekend.

[@rafaeldegiacomoaraujo8778]

Just enjoy your bike bro

[@josuezuniga6776]

Assos Jersey's are beautiful

[@gerekappo]

Love your videos brother, fun and informative, loving the Thailand updates! Could you work on sound improvements to the shop? I mean try to reduce echo?

[@Bikefitjames]

Sadly it’s just the nature of shooting a shop with hard floors walls and ceiling and not a proper filming studio. We have the lav mics now, but still we can only do so much. It’s important that we keep the shop suitable for bike fitting first, filming second!

[@huntos83]

Accostic ceiling panels would help a lot. Or much easier and cheaper, just fit some of the “on trend” wood slat acoustic panels to some areas of the walls. Few hundred quid and easy to install yourself

[@rhythmace1]

FWIW I find the sound fine as far as intelligibity of the speech is concerned. But yeah, a few acoustic wall and ceiling panels could really help deaden the room relatively easily and cheaply if you were so inclined.

[@RobertFHarrison]

Most of my bikes have been of an almost appropriate size in at least half the of the necessary dimensions. In the other half...well...if I ever get to the UK we'll be booking a fit.

[@crankgreenwatts]

Chapeau Michael 🙌 Awesome video and showing we can all cycle and gain from a great bike fit 🫶 Damn need to get myself booked in 😁

[@Ehsender]

Are you finding it best to level Berk saddles tip to tail as you would with an SLR Boost? Love this episode! Lots going on.

[@KNURKonesur]

Finally a Civilian, not an Athlete or ex-Athlete! More of those regular blokes that the cycling industry keeps forgetting about!

[@Cycle.every.day.]

Good to see a real World cyclist in one of these vids

[@edwin_slager]

Alles door kijken ziet James al de pijnpunten. Gevoel dat je benen naar binnen staan en dat de stans niet goed is, dat gevoel heb ik ook.

[@Darylbarker]

Normal fella with an attainable bike 👍Would have be interesting to have seen If it was possible to or how close you could make it for someone who has bought the bike but doesn’t have to option of purchasing a new one? Enjoyable watch 👏

[@michael1]

Well, as he said, he didn't really have that many issues. You can probably ride any bike for 30-60 minutes. Most of the bike fit issues appear when people start doing much longer rides. You'll get most of the health benefits from cycling 30-60 minutes, so the obvious answer is to use the existing bike. Hell, the vast majority of cyclists - including all the ones who have been to a bike fitter and paid thousands in fees and new parts or a new bike are uncomfortable. So you'd just be another one of them. There's a reasonable chance he'll be uncomfortable on whatever bike James tells him to buy. So 1. Just ride the bike you have. The most useful thing you can do if you don't have an income is to fix that. 2. Put your energy and focus into improving your circumstances. Surely there cannot really be anyone who is overweight and struggling that much financially. That makes little sense. At any time in documented history where people were poor they are markedly emaciated in film footage and photographs. Similarly someone turning up on an old 10 speed racer that's too big maybe they can't afford anything else but anyone turning up on some fancy pants carbon road bike isn't short of cash to replace it. 3. It's a false premise and hypothetical so there is no problem to solve. Cycling is what it is and costs what it does. If you can't afford equipment then you might as well ask what people who can't afford a Go kart should do to go and race a go kart? Nothing. Do something else. Go without. One advantage cycling does have although it can be relatively expensive to buy the equipment but after that it's more or less free to cycle around - there's no gym fees or other monthly charge. 4. Do something else that you can afford. Sell the badly fitting bike to pay for a pair of running shoes or whatever.

[@michaelburns732]

30-60 minutes? I would regularly do 4hrs to 6hrs rides on the Vitus. Longest ride being around 95 miles.

[@axuh382]

And to think the race bikes are the 'default option' at least in road cycling. Then their geometries trickle down to all kinds of bikes that would be fun if they would fit people better.

[@ShubhraDebPaul]

Great video as always! I have a question. The model was recommended 160mm crank as the optimal option; what is his inseam length?

[@michaelburns732]

Hi, my inseam is 78.9cm. Bit longer than I would buy a pair of trousers/jeans but the tool to measure was right up there 😂. I guess to mimic a saddle.

[@aljaliah6868]

PROPR BIKE that , excellent choice Michael

[@FarOut-n6b]

8cm increase in bar height? the steerers cut so that bikes buggered for him now. tell him ill give him 500 cash right now

[@edmundhodgson2572]

If only Michael did this first and bought second.

[@johnwestwell2241]

He seemed well aware of that after the fit, but thought that it might be too small for him rather than too large. And expected that his position wouldn't have to change much. Which illustrates the problem most cyclists have.

[@Millicente]

When you mention the pinarello x are we talking the dogma x which is more aggressive or the lower tier x models which are more relaxed?

[@gaza4543]

Lower tier

[@jeffmcconnell6214]

So for longevity in terms of keeping a bike for many years, what is the best option? Obviously get a fit first, based on years of these videos, but then does one simply find an off the shelf that is close in terms of measurements and then piece it together with cranks, stem, etc to be perfect (thus adding to the cost), or go for a more bespoke (or semi-bespoke) bike that will itself be more expensive but fit better from get get go?

[@gaza4543]

Fit, custom frame, off the peg bikes nearly never fit.

[@andrewmorris9013]

@@gaza4543 I would argue that hardly anyone needs a custom frame, if you think about how much your saddle can move up and down, fore and aft, and how much you can adjust your stack with spacers and reach with stem length. Just make sure you get a compatible bike with the right frame size - and your bike-fitter should be able to help with that.

[@dausmoithai6198]

Already back in UK from Thailand?

[@igglebert3261]

Which saddle did this gent switch to? Thanks 👍🏽

[@samuel8590]

Yeah. Unfortunately, strip the bike, transfer the parts to a new frame that fits minus the cranks. Someone will buy that frame and handlebar from him. He won't get what he paid, but that's just how things go with bikes.

[@Trevor.Adams640]

So how do you increase the stance - Shimano wider fit pedals, Pedal spacers, SQ Lab pedals with longer axles? Or is it to do with the cranks?

[@jasonhurst2491]

I think James ended up trying a pair of Favero Assioma Duo Shi power pedals on the fitting jig. They are 12mm wider stance per side then standard Shimano SPD-SL pedals. I use them and love them. Both for the power measurement and the wider stance, which I needed. Other ways to create a wider stance include the things you mentioned as well as cleat extender plates from companies like Form. Those plates can give up to 10mm extra stance width per side with no other changes. So any of those things individually or in combination can get you where you might need to be. If you do use cleat extender plates though, they increase the stack height of the shoe by about 3mm so you may need to raise your saddle by that amount, assuming your saddle was set correctly to begin with.

[@eddienoel1149]

Brilliant, fit first buy after qed

[@ldimitrov]

My bike is with a 172.5 cranks, if i want to switch to shorter ones looks like i'd have to go for 165(it seems really difficult to find 167.5), wouldn't that be a very drastic change? At the other case is it even worth it to try with 170's as the change is small?

[@christerlundgren3805]

Average riders consists 98.9% (at least😂) 40 years back i would profit from the todays marvels with the whole chabangs topnotch. A bike to Enjoy, fitted for my not very aero body is good enough. And a resonable price, doesnt hurt either 😂. A bikefitting is the best money spent, period. Frame, wheels and saddle etc is a decision to take according to each and ones finances. 250 or 25000. The Riding must be fun and no pain.

[@bennp2000]

What size is his Vitus? It looks pretty 😐.

[@RyonBeachner]

Genuinely curious, is this the build that people consider “average” amongst non professional/recreational cycling?

[@frankspeakmore7104]

He is the size he is, but to my eyes that is NOT "average", but I am seeing people his size more and more. There will be two sides to the story about how and why he bought that bike, maybe the sales person suggested it was not suitable, and he insisted on buying it. He is a cyclist because he can ride a bike and has one. I wish him all the best in his goals/targets.

[@RyonBeachner]

@ Oh I have nothing but high hopes for him, and my question is not meant as a commentary on his size one way or the other, I’m just curious what constitutes “average” in the mind of the public or industry.

[@sd7335]

no, it's just modern virtue signaling and avoiding the obvious

[@johnwestwell2241]

@@frankspeakmore7104 He bought the bike second hand. A private sale direct from the previous owner.

[@andrewmorris9013]

@@sd7335 Lol what are you talking about? You put a random guy on a World Tour pro bike and they'll need physiotherapy for weeks. That is basically the theme of most of these videos.

[@ramsden35]

Brilliant insight. Poor fella only bought that bike so he’d get compliments about the bike. Ego ruins men’s ability to make sensible decisions.

[@michaelburns732]

🤣 definitely not why I bought the bike you wally! No ego involved. Beautiful bike, was a dream to ride . Just wasn’t quite right which I was fully aware of in the first place but in the grand scheme of things I had no issues whilst riding the bike.

[@andyfairclough1968]

People want to ride nice bikes! That shouldn't be a crime. It would be interesting to know if there is a size of this bike that would have fit.

[@Natuh21]

Ur back from Philippines?

[@johnwestwell2241]

Nope.

[@blackbird969]

Assos ambassador? :)

[@michaelburns732]

Haha not yet! I wish I was. Just like their kit.

[@Sfs678]

Whats the cheaper Option for the Dogma x?

[@RyonBeachner]

The entry point is the X1 if I recall correctly at about $3500. Or just less than a 1/4 of the price of the Dogma X.

[@rafaeldegiacomoaraujo8778]

Consider another endurance frame. You can compare in geometry geeks

[@Sfs678]

@@rafaeldegiacomoaraujo8778 @RyonBeachner Thanks!

[@dewedewenson]

man this is the only channel I bother giving thumbs up ! Thanks for the great video James

[@Bikefitjames]

Wow! What a lovely comment thank you so much 🙏🏻

[@Omnis2]

Unconscionable that someone sold this guy that slammed Vitus LOL. If you've gotta buy a race bike, get one that's set up for someone taller than you. Keep the stack and halve the reach.

[@michaelburns732]

Back story is that a friend was selling his Vitus. Always knowing the stem was slammed & not necessarily the correct bike for me, after riding it I really enjoyed the ride. All the while knowing that I’m not the ideal demographic for this type of bike. That aside, I have done 2500 miles on the bike this year before selling it & not once had an actual issue riding it. Some pressure in the hands after 60+ miles but not enough for me to not enjoy the ride. This bike, paired with a small weight loss & consistency saw my average speed over a 40 mile loop go from 16.5mph to 19mph over the same 40 mile loop in the space of 5 months.

[@Omnis2]

@ good on you man. Sorry if I missed it, but they should’ve put that bit in the video. My story is similar but I’m on an old TCR SL with a flipped stem all the way up on the head tube hahaha. I had a bike fit and bought the TCR at a steal once I knew I could hit the same dimensions as my fit with a bit of creative part selections

[@michaelburns732]

@ No worries at all. I thought the bike fit was the best experience but reading the comments tops that 😆😆. Nice! Lovely bike the TCR!

[@johnpaul5316]

Look fast, ride fast.

[@paulawright6868]

Fit first, buy later ❤

[@twatts4436]

8cm of stack increase?!

[@Natan9000]

Aren’t you in Thailand? 🤪

[@johnwestwell2241]

Yes he is.

[@renatorocha8274]

At last, a bike fit to a normal cyclist not a pro racer fit 🎉

[@sd7335]

Prime example of why road bikes and niche time trial bikes aren't meant for regular joes. Trekking, mountain bikes - they do exist and they do work with much less of a hassle.

[@Andy_ATB]

Yeah, the problem is the industry & media are all in it trying to sell bikes the pros ride. Ridiculous!!!

[@andreemurray7039]

An other great show

[@M33TFP]

6:31 hahahahaha

[@friendbubble8415]

6:37 Wrong u can do in a real world

[@Bikefitjames]

I am sure you are correct

[@friendbubble8415]

@@Bikefitjames SQ labs offers some pedals at least for MTB cleats. Maybe also for road cleats

[@Bikefitjames]

I am aware of that, I said you cannot fit 6mm of pedal washer to a pedal in the realm world - good luck trying that!

[@friendbubble8415]

@@Bikefitjames Oh ok english is not my nativ language. Sometimes hart to understand u. but no reason to be sarcastic. good luck keeping ur chanel alive

[@kiwibiker9754]

Why dies a guy that size need an aero bike? Heres the thing people. Everything James says about this bike suggesrs it was a poor choice. Even the customer admits this.We are all guilty of being influenced to varying degrees by the cycle industries marketing B S. Aero bikes offer almost zero real workd benefits to mr average cyclist. They are generally heavier, race geometry biased and way more expensive.Buying an endurance frame with a more comfortable fit is likely to lead to mr average enjoying his bike more and therefore riding more. James andwer me honestly: if this customer came into your bike shop and you had a full range of bikes woukd you have recommended an aero bike? Lastly we are all free to buy whatever we want just as we are all free to have an opinion critical or otherwise

[@8rk]

Why does it bother you? Let him ride whatever excites him.

[@keessonnema]

Because it's a sick bike, and if it fitted properly it would be great to ride. What if Michael's bike was perfect for him? Would you have said the same thing?

[@Cycle.every.day.]

Who died

[@jorgecarrillo3550]

Comments like these are why everything is so f…d up everywhere,, the guy is just trying to ride his bike with less discomfort as possible. Wether the bike suits him or not is irrelevant to all of us , great video 👍🏼👍🏼

[@sd7335]

@@jorgecarrillo3550 well virtue signaling award to you, but truth is still out there and the op was correct

[@pitmontorlover]

How could you be here and there in the same time..?🧐

[@Bikefitjames]

I is a wizard

[@flamencoguru]

But, your bike doesn't fit so.... go buy something else!

[@slowcyclist4324]

Just buy and ride the bike you want. Aero bike doesn’t fit? Cool. I’ll just buy another comfortable bike for the long rides, and ride the aero bike for fun short rides. We aren’t pro riders; we can afford to ride whatever we want because we don’t have to care about performance.

[@frankspeakmore7104]

Pretty sure this customers bike has an optimal weight limit. The more expensive the carbon frame, the lighter it will be, this does not equate to it being stronger for heavier riders. Along with the wheels which will have fewer spokes under greater tension, the lighter disc brakes working harder on descents, levering the handle bars with excess weight and the likely hood of an acute breakage is highly possible.

[@Kesevar]

this guy is as far from aero shape as they come 🤣

[@natus99]

but he has very aero bike and aero skin-suit... it is crazy how some people end up on their bikes...sometimes on the group rides you see some and it hurts from just seeing 😵‍💫

[@michaelburns732]

@@natus99Not a skin suit…

[@natus99]

@@michaelburns732 ah yes, you are right, but still very tight fitting and 'aero' 😆

[@michaelburns732]

@@natus99😂 gotta take the aero gains where you can & baggy clothing ain’t it.

[@FarOut-n6b]

Im a shit driver, doesnt stop me buying a luxury car though does it