Does this Trick Improve your Grinder?

[@windowdoog]

I want to live in an alternate reality where Lance shatters the incomes of all his industry friends by making the best coffee in history with a porlex and a sieve. Just mass layoffs. International industry wide collapse bc one guy tried a mesh.

[@markburness5609]

I don't know about 'the best coffee in history', but 3rd place in the Canadian brewers cup in 2017 went to a guy grinding with a Porlex.

[@changer6]

I've had good luck using tweezers and an electron microscope (Weber Workshops EM1) to pick out individual coffee particles. Using this technique, I am able to create any flavor profile imaginable. I prefer 100,000 fine particles to 500,000 medium fine particles. hope this helps!

[@LanceHedrick]

Nice job

[@emanggitulah4319]

No wonder Lance is so jacked, he is handgrinding all day for us.

[@PhillipLangenkamp]

The "DaVinci of Drip" just dropped another masterpiece video! ;-)

[@sharpodin]

[@jamescarroll3390]

I generally just put suggestive photos as my main profile picture, that usually improves my Grindr… Oh wait… you meant THAT grinder

[@soydavidvidal]

sir, your comment won hahaha

[@jamescarroll3390]

@ thank you! To be honest, KZbin randomly recommended this video to me, I saw the opportunity, so I took it. I would like to thank the Academy, my friends and family, who would probably not be very proud of me making that joke, but most of all you, the people who find amusement in my comment. Thank you everyone and have a wonderful day! 😂

[@ThePorkTree]

Groan

[@emanggitulah4319]

Gotta use your hand grindr James 😅

[@adambeatty8939]

I just love the content Lance puts out. Really high quality, high level of thought and effort. Video and production is spot on. Love his unique personality and what he brings to the industry. Thanks again for a wonderful deep dive into this topic and looking forward to more as always

[@ductrung3993]

one of your best video in the vain of "explaining the science" yet Lance. Concise, understandable, and address all the biggest questions

[@michaeldimmitt2188]

Thanks Lance. I’ve wanted to learn more about sifting and the common sizes of fines and their effect on the whole cup. This is a great start. I could imagine the fines from different coffees having different effects with different brew methods. Sounds like a never ending research possibility. Then do it all again the following year with the next season’s crops.

[@DanFlynn]

Your videos are always great quality, but there's something about this one that just stepped it up a notch! Well done Hugo!

[@yogs888]

I’m hearing some music I know don’t like in the background. Seems like they are putting in some low base notes 🎶 really distracting. Is this on purpose? Can any one else hear it? You need to use your head phones

[@giovannih.6027]

@@yogs888 I, on the other hand, liked the music a lot. The video had kinda chill artistic vibe.

[@InVacuo]

This was really interesting, I never would have guessed having some fines would yield a better cup than none but it does make sense to me in hindsight with your seasoning/char explanation.

[@kamvalkov]

Hey i just want to say, the production quality of your videos are impeccable.

[@ccahua]

+1 to the sound engineer - keep the moody suspensy sound track

[@price.gaines]

I don’t sift my fines, but I do blow out a lot of the chaff and shake a few times with a paper towel over the cup. The paper towel collects quite a bit of fines depending on the coffee. It’s not a foolproof method of removing fines, but I find that it does decrease the astringency of my brews by a small but noticeable amount.

[@Kureiji-Desu]

That's so clever and relatively easy to incorporate into a daily brew.

[@cooperahrens3043]

Great video with some cool data. I have been testing sifting for awhile now, since I got the zp6. At first I felt a little duped by reviewers: "is the zp6 too clean?", "Too much clarity it wouldn't sell in Taiwan" etc. The zp6 is a great grinder granted but in no world is it too clean or even very clean. It is just high-clarity for a conical hand grinder. So I looked towards sifting to try and narrow the gap. The hollowness is immediately apparent and in some cases more astringency if you sift to much. I found using a 500 micron sieve works best, sifting 1-3g from a 21-23g dose depending on how much fines the coffee produces. This way - I hypothesize - the main particle peak narrows a bit but the amount sifted is small enough that much of the

[@TheIronSavior]

I started filtering fines years ago and it has been the single most impactful change to brewing consistently. I don't use any kind of sifting device to achieve it though. My grinder is a $75 Oxo conical with worn out teeth.

[@후니후니-b9b]

i use kruve 500/1300 and Hg-2 because i think Hg-2 make many fines so i shifted and pour fine right after last pour. in my experience it reduce emptyniss and fines are captured by large particle .Recently, I'm wondering if large particles(1300+) go bottom will increase the extraction in the cone filter by make more flow to extraction shadow area(bottom part) , or if placing large particles on the top ( typical cone filter extract more in upper position and it increase the extraction of large particles) will have a better effect on the taste or mixing(with magic tumbler) and then adding it will give a better experience.

[@후니후니-b9b]

I want you to take a look at this, too. In the case of tricolate, non-bypass brewers require a large amount of beans. In Korea, people who could not purchase that kind of dripper due to cost problems tried to make a similar effect with an aeropresso. The same effect can be achieved in small amounts of bean. I'm curious about your opinion on this. kzbin.info/www/bejne/ol6wqH5uj5V3mJo

[@mjohnson629]

I love how meticulous you are testing these myths and methodologies.

[@jhill4778]

First off - great video well put together. I especially loved the soundtrack on this one. It brought an Ex Machina vibe which was unexpected. But my question is I feel that you should follow your own advice!: if your brew tastes hollow then grind finer, or increase time or ratio. Each set of grinds (sifted, unsifted) needs to be dialled in rather than just matched in terms of peaks. It may be that you did this but wanted to check. Thank you!

[@mango8758]

As someone that spend a couple years testing particle size and surface area of powders. This could also double as a quick tutorial. Especially when you were talking about volume vs number differences

[@mateherbay2289]

This simple trick makes your coffee 200% better! Grinder companies don't want you to know about it!

[@LanceHedrick]

😅😅😅

[@jfess1911]

Sorry, but that is ridiculous! I would say closer to 175% better.

[@GermySleeps]

Editing quality is unreal, thanks for this one cheers

[@fokcuk]

I cover the catch cup of the grinder with a stainless lid and shake that for like 20s. Tiny fines stick to the lid and other fines end up stuck to the bottom of the cup. When put into the brewer, fines end up on the top and shaking rounds the particles as was discussed in some previous videos

[@MikeDVB]

So I ordered that same sieve so that I can try myself what kind of difference if any it makes for my cups. I've always been really happy with my coffee but I love trying new things. I have more grinders than I can justify [my wife recently discovered how many I have ... oops] - so I have a variety of grinders I can test this with. I do have the Kruve sieves but I mostly used them just to get an idea of what my grind settings are roughly producing for boulders but I've found them tedious to use in my actual coffee making process. That said - I wasn't aware of the Pietro - that grinder looks amazing. I've been looking for a good flat burr grinder that's quiet for my office at work. Thank you, Lance, for everything that you do - I really appreciate your content.

[@Desmond987]

The sudden goofy moments in your videos are what makes these so enjoyable to watch. Never change Lance, you are the best!

[@brmbltbr4]

Since we're already here, what about regrinding? Maybe the better option to make cheap grinders better?

[@koerianv3629]

This does explain why I had to drastically change up my Aeropress recipes going from Ode to ZP6, thanks!

[@Kureiji-Desu]

On my Fellow Ode with SSP MP burs I tried sifting, and what I got were very hollow cups, almost no body "clean" but also bitter on some coffees. The coolest thing I've noticed was the flow of water through the bed, it was so smooth and consistent. So my takeaway was to try and improve that flow through other means, and that's where the Sibarist booster came into play and elevated my cups. This is not an ad, I swear 😅

[@alexlabaise5621]

This whole experiment was so exquisitely conducted in the most scientific methodology, I just loved the rigorous testing and interpretation. One really small nit picking observation, the graphs had a blue line and a purple line (I think?)…. quite difficult to distinguish between them if you are partially colour blind like myself 😊…. Otherwise, a perfect piece as always!

[@Foolsauce]

Personally enjoy my brews more with the fines knocker included with my 078s. I find I get a hollow brew with harsher acidity when I don't include what is in the fines knocker.

[@lucahenrichs2913]

This helped me a lot 🙏 I actually use the Porlex Grinder and since I got more experience in the coffee world I started to really doubt myself. I didn’t understand why my cups weren’t tasting very great and started to understand that it really was the grinders fault. However I noticed, that when using a classic AeroPress recipe, the Porlex is doing okay. The particle distribution in coarser grind settings gets worse and worse since the grounds are really not homogenous. When grinding finer it turns out a little better. When I use the AeroPress I do a little bloom first and then fill the rest of the water. I stir it and let it sit for 30 seconds. Then I press it with a little bit of pressure for about 30 seconds. This recipe works pretty fine for the Porlex. I use 8 clicks to achieve that. That way there is not so much dripping through the filter before pressing.

[@mattpecevich3749]

I have a sifter in an attempt to improve a Baratza encore for pour over. It doesn’t change that much. I later bought a ZP6 and it’s night and day better than sifted encore grounds.

[@jazzcoffeestuff]

Lance: there's a bit of a hack to getting better cups out of the porlex... Hold the base of the grinder on the table when grinding. Don't let it "lift" or "tip over" and try and keep the speed as regular as you can (you'll be forced to go quite slow). It's totally not-ergonomic - but once you get the technique it'll improve the quality considerably (not to an ek or anything, but better)...When you grind with the grinder in the air it's very easy to flex the shaft and cause the burrs to mis-align, the table trick helps keep things more central. This works with the skerton, rhino and all of "those" types of grinder

[@Boyetto-san]

I think we need this kind of message every now and then in a community as obsessive as this, amounting essentially to missing the forrest for the trees. Yes, we want clarity, which is achieved through unimodal particle distribution, and so we think in terms of pushing that unimodality as far as it can go. But in practice, having some fines do still matter to balancing the cup and producing a grinder's unique profile. So I think these results mostly tell us that each burrset has its own uniqueness from its specific particle distribution, and that you can't just sift fines on another grinder to add up to another grinder. The more a burr already makes a good cup on its own, the more likely that interfering with its particle distribution may make the end cup worse.

[@giovannih.6027]

This video's editing had kinda artistic vibe to it with the music and a lot of B-roll footage and I definitely liked that.

[@littlesnake6117]

love this. i started sifting directly due to the porlex being my only option. in my experience, the answer to this thumbnail is yes. it's night and day. upgraded hand grinders slowly over time and ended up needing to sift less and less in my opinion, if you're paying attention to exactly how much you need to get out, it's fairly surefire that you're getting a better cup until you get to a really good/expensive unimodally accurate grinder. one thing that should be addressed too is that sifting out fines over time creates a lot of waste - stacked over years is an absurd amount of money wasted on coffee, therefore investing in a good grinder actually saves you money/coffee

[@ash2joker]

Love this look mate.. look like an absolute geezer!

[@berndbecker4481]

Will coffee made with a yellow V60 taste the same as the one made with a dark brown V60, though?

[@bernardvantonder7291]

Agree with everything. Would be interesting to see using two size sifts and adding them together

[@erikngomez]

Fantastic video. One small note but around the 11 minute mark you show particle sizes and the colors are very similar. As a color blind person it is borderline impossible for me to differentiate them.

[@unol]

Ace video Lance. Loving the diagrams and video effects, definately helps with understanding the concepts you're trying to get across.

[@zanzabar7878]

I just started sifting 1 week ago. I have a 1zpresso JX, it has improved both my v60 and brewista cups

[@liiich6175]

Trying some areopress stuff out and i simply used my hand air blower thingo to blow away some chaff...also a lot of fines went away and i was left with more consistent grinds, I think I lost

[@bzboii]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="108">1:48</a> cute little trolley car on the fines peak :) choo choo all aboard

[@shaheerrahman4278]

I know villager in brooklyn sieves the fines from their EK43. I've only been once, but it was interesting to see their take on it. I personally dont ever sieve because I have a ZP6 and enjoy the balance like you said.

[@midnijt]

This is super cool. Given how quickly fines extract, I think I might play around with tossing the bloom water now…

[@alex-r-t]

If you ever decide to do a follow-up, I'd love to see a comparison of the Pietro Multipurpose Burrs vs. the Pro Brew where you sift, then gradually re-introduce the fines (e.g. Pietro MP with 10% fines reduction, 20% fines reduction, 30%, etc.). At what point does the "hollowness" go away? What else changes as a greater percentage of fines is added back into the brew? Thanks for the video!

[@samuelsteinberg8650]

A good dose of science and coffee. I’m here for it bro

[@wyocoyotewyocoyote9007]

Made it through it all, very informative........I'd like to see a few grinders cheap medium hand or powered, with wetted/misted beans for pour over, rather than espresso and see if there are improvements in any way. My bias is towards yes, for it seems to have helped my cheapo, and "good enough" burr grinders. power of suggestion, subjective, fact or fiction? Hollow is a great descriptor. I have ground a fresh espresso roast from a roaster that is quite in my cheapo cordless grinder then in a nicer burr grinder. both ways I for some reason have a soulless meh hollow cup.

[@julianpark93]

How do you feel about pre breaking beans without an auger? I’ve used an espresso tamper and a bowl to crack beans lightly and remove chaff intact and do it a lot for washed coffees. Have you tried that before to see if it helps with more “uniform” grinding?

[@sdjohnston67]

This is great! Fascinating and highly illuminating.

[@SergioGonzalezMartin]

Just yesterday I "filtered" my ground coffee (grinded in a Varia VS3) with kitchen paper (I let the fines get caught in the relief of the paper), and I liked the result in the V60.

[@steveoverstreet5635]

Here’s my question: could I use my fines to figure out if my grinder blades are dull? I.e., should be replaced?. Could I maybe test every hundred cups (or once a month - easier to track) ? Or, based on what you’ve learned from your porlex, do the cups degrade (flavor-wise) with age? Is a new porlex much better than an old one? I guess using a porlex it would take less time to see how much/little dull blades affect flavor.

[@samweiss3248]

I wonder if some of the hollowness of the sifted cups could be lessened by using a finer grind relative to the unsifted cups. So, the nominal peak would be finer on the sifted cup. Or is it that even if you "dial in" the sifted version separately, you'll still get the hollowness? Cool to see these tests!

[@Swapnil638]

Should’ve matched the extraction instead of the nominal peak size. The former is what translates to the target experience of a good cup, not the latter. With my Chestnut C2 I have to go espresso-fine in order to see the benefits of the sifting. I do lose 24% of the grounds to sub-250 micron fines, which I do use for Turkish or whacky filter experiments, but it is a pain to grind that fine with a grinder meant for filter. The sifting is aggravating too.

[@LanceHedrick]

That's your opinion.

[@kylewalton4424]

I just came here to see you flex while explaining grind particle distribution!! 😂 Another great video, Lance!

[@jason950216]

How about sieving the grinds from a budget grinder into several sieves of different mesh sizes, and re-create a particular PSD curve of another grinder?

[@thomasstephens7293]

I love this! I love, love, love this! I love coffee! Love it! This is awesome! Coffee is awesome!

[@skeksis268]

I did this for months by hand with a tea strainer. Very laborious. Great coffee. Couldn’t keep it up.

[@yanuehara8017]

Hey lance after like 1 year of waiting my friend finally managed to bring some Konos to me all the way from japan to Brazil. Loving them, especially the small blue one.

[@kg-Whatthehelliseventhat]

I live in Japan and 1 of the best coffees I ever roasted was a Brazilian Santos. Omg it tasted like I added cherry flavoring. I'll trade with you. Seriously... let me know.

[@Mlody_Michal]

great production on this one!

[@Boyetto-san]

Sifting grounds on cheap grinders was always wierd for me, especially if you already spend on good coffee. You save money on a one-time purchase on the grinder, only to have a recurring increase in cost from sifting out fines and thus needing more beans for a dose. Like, it just makes sense to spend a bit bigger for the one-time purchase, which will help you get the most out of each gram of the recurring purchase. It pays for itself eventually.

[@chibiquatre]

Amazing work, thank you for your hard and methodical work! Coffee world is better thanks to you!

[@EvgeniMinchev]

To the ones that do post: "The sound around <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="580">9:40</a> onwards is very nice, keep up the great work folks!"

[@blrholt5162]

Do you know the name of the tune?

[@The_Ubatron]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="932">15:32</a> Answer: No, not really.

[@jeffb8331]

A couple of questions come to mind. 1. Are the particles clinging to a dosing cup or left in the grinder mostly fines and should you avoid trying to get to zero retention by knocking or using a baffle? 2. What would happen if you grind very coarsely on a hand grinder and then grind them again at your desired setting relative to particle distribution and fines?

[@PeterGtze]

Your best video yet... I am sure!

[@alfredodelacruz8528]

Spanish, I love it!!!! More videos like this, please.

[@mexicanhalloween]

I would be curious as to what the ideal ratio of fines would be for a bimodal distribution. 1%, 5%, 10%? I wonder if you could isolate fines and unimodal grind and then combine them at different ratios to see what the ideal combination could be.

[@Noyb266]

You’re looking great, Lance! 💪

[@willbothfeld5889]

Lance, I commented on your previous video, but do you think blind shakers work partly by causing electrostatic interactions between the ultra fines and sides of container? I notice my catch cup get coated with coffee dust whenever I do gentle shaking after grinding

[@mack6861]

This was a really awesome video. I love the results and the testing. One critique, the thumbnail came off as pretty clickbaity. Overall, great work Lance!

[@radicalbyte]

OMFG I totally missread the title and was thinking "huh when did our coffee stan start making videos about dating apps". The universe is telling me that I need to start looking at reading glasses 😵‍💫

[@sjackson5407]

I'd be curious to try sifting out as many fines as possible and adding some back in to mimic different burr profiles. Could I get a profile similar to SSP's unimodal burrs with SSP's lab sweets via sifting and adding some of the fines back?

[@dancingdog2790]

I was hoping you'd break out the SG-1 for this

[@markburness5609]

Sifting out the fines (& potentially boulders too) works best for immersions with limited/no flow and need not reduce extraction (check out the sifted cupping at the "NBC/SCAE Gold Cup Grinder Research" video). Sifting for percolation is too labour intensive for day to day brewing, but if I did want to improve a grind distribution (even for an immersion with a flow component), I would take a grinder coarser (to reduce the incidence of smaller particles) then sift out boulders (say 10-20% depending on the sieve at hand. You said that you matched the modes of the grind distributions, to do this you would have to had LPA plots to show this...however the plots shown in the video are speculative, suggesting the modes were not actually matched?

[@markburness5609]

I don't know about your Porlex specifically, but on mine 3-6 is in the espresso range, way finer than I'd attempt for pour over.

[@kuyatoast]

just a thought after watching your video, what if you created a ratio for particle size? using multiple sifts and controlling the ratio to brew coffee. seems interesting.

[@whyilovethemoon]

Hey Lance, will you tell me the brand of your turquoise dosing tray?

[@alphamega1811]

Hey Lance! Just a question: I own a 1Zpresso J-Max and want to reduce static when I grind, however, 1Zpresso advises against the use of RDT. Do you know of any other methods I can do that? Appreciate it

[@GunfighterAlpha]

For what its worth, I've been using RDT in my K-Max for 2 years with zero issues.

[@alphamega1811]

@GunfighterAlpha Really? I've been considering it but I'm worried about rust.

[@tiodeniz]

Been rdting too for over a year now. Huge improvement on static. No issue at all

[@GunfighterAlpha]

@@alphamega1811 Zero rust, no bearing degradation and I disassemble the grinder and clean it every 2 weeks. It barely takes any water to reduce static buildup so I wouldn't worry about it personally. Your grinder, your call!. Cheers.

[@alphamega1811]

@GunfighterAlpha That's super helpful. What grinder do you own if I may ask?

[@davidegt]

Looking good Lance

[@angrymurloc7626]

Wished for a lido og this Christmas, am I going to have a $25000 grinder? Time to watch the video

[@zhifengzong684]

Does the coated and un-coated Pietro grinder has any difference on grind quality and taste?

[@zhifengzong684]

I see the pro brew burr has a light and kind of silver color to multi purpose burr. Is pro brew be the un final production that you said in other Pietro video?

[@wyocoyotewyocoyote9007]

Very caffeinated, I'm to much ADD to watch it all this , yet......I'll need a post cafe beer to do so, However: I had a grinding F'up yesterday, I unwittingly poured my beans into a glass of water. Last dose of beans. I actually dried them as best I could. They extremely slowly ground in my inexpensive rechargeable one cup burr grinder. INTERESTINGLY THE CHAFF WAS LEFT BEHIND>>>>LIKE NEAR WHOLE HUSKS>>>>> this would be difficult to repeat. was doing a relatively coarse grind for pour over with some mid roast beans. Miraculously my cuppa was quite good. Once in the past I over wetted beans with booze as an experiment (Also tried a misting with better results) The beans just squished that time, so I had coffee bean pulp I suppose. I've had very nice results lightly misting whole beans pre grind (or adding droplets of H2O and agitating) Dunno if its B/C it eliminates static or??? but don't/fines get chaff sticking to burr or receptacle. Does it make for a better cup, hard to tell, a better grind? Maybe. It's probably bad style to comment b4 watching the whole vid. I 'll blame that on making my morning mug "strong like bull"

[@wyocoyotewyocoyote9007]

Ohh That side handle hand grinder minute 5 ish looks appealing, top handle ones are a PITA. Sadly my drunk ex dropped my vintage wooden boxed grinder in the ocean. It worked great.

[@wyocoyotewyocoyote9007]

after a negra modelo I've been able to focus enough to make it to minute 12.....wow! You "nailed" all 4 initial brews. Super taster or rigged/? (kidding)

[@deekejtv]

Lance, how about checking if immediately regrinding the coffee actually improves the taste? 🤔 I know it would taste horrible with high-end grinders... But could it help some cheap grinders? *cough* Hario Skerton *cough* *cough* 😅

[@ScentientArtLLC-e1t]

What's up with a slow feed vs non slow feed blind tasting for the pro brew burrs?

[@kingmidas430]

Do we know what PSD leads to common terms like clarity, juicy, body? I think a large peak is clarity but im not sure about the others. What do you think?

[@cheekster777]

Thanks Lance.

[@leroybrown4797]

Thinking of purchasing a specialty coffee subscription. Have any unbiased or affiliated suggestions and tips?

[@Magnivore519]

Was there no comparison to slow feeding the lower quality grinder at a larger grind size?

[@LuonnonkosmetiikkaWithDeli]

Eye opening!

[@UltiMogr]

I can see the philos back there for quite a bit now. when can we expect the review? I am really confused about the 189 burrs and I need your help

[@Jahloveipraise]

Do you use a 01 or 02 v60 as a daily driver?

[@whiteveinsmusic]

what if you took the pietro's grind distribution chart and recreated it with the sifted porlex i.e. if 90% of the pietro is the appropriate size say 550 microns and 8% is fines at 100microns (the other 2% being the rest of the spectrum) what if you sifted the porlex to have the same ratio? instead of just removing 100% of the fines produced you actually left some in? thanks for the video as always! (also please note those percentages i put in this comment are with 0% accuracy and are just there to help hopefully explain the thought lmao)

[@LanceHedrick]

Particle shape would still cause massive disparity between the brews there.

[@whiteveinsmusic]

@@LanceHedrick ahhh very very good point thank you!!

[@Gk2003m]

It’s not a ‘theory’. It’s a hypothesis. That said, if you’re using a motorized grinder the easiest trick to getting better espresso is slow-feeding your beans. Get the grinder started, and then begin feeding the beans in. You don’t have to go nuts with this, take about 5-6 seconds to feed them in. Makes a huge difference in consistency of grind

[@LanceHedrick]

Lol you realize i made a video on slow feeding like a year ago

[@Gk2003m]

@ yeah… and I was already doing it many months before you made that video. More for motor preservation than anything, but I couldn’t help but notice I was getting consistently good results in the cup.

[@umarlatiff9595]

awesome video. nice dose of information

[@ricard3851]

WAWW that's golden, thanks

[@SeanGordon-ym4yf]

Interesting video!

[@VictorKristensen-o5m]

What was the sieve size? :)

[@incredibleweirdo]

What’s being used to sift out the fines there?

[@Speedojesus]

Fines, in my pour over? It's more likely than you think. Free grind size check!

[@1943vermork]

The outro 😂 Poor Hugo that have to go through