Does Your Editor Matter?

[@ThePrimeagen]

Hey, appreciate all of you. I hope you like these more life style talky videos, please like the video, they are free and it helps me a ton. Don't worry, blazingly fast series is continuing with 2 VIDEOS IN THE HOPPER!!!!

[@towatch]

😍😍😍🎉

[@asdfasdfasdf208]

Looking forward to the next vim video

[@imagreatguy1250]

Excuse me fiery one, are you not the crazy vim loving, Netflix building developer? Oh so sorry? 😍😍😍😍 Screenshot emacs hardened kernel Gentoo yes?

[@mohamedaityoussef9965]

Yeah this style of vids is really good for newbies like me

[@handsanitizer2457]

I use 3 editors, rider, Android studio and vs code. The key is to learn your short cuts !!! 🩳 ✂️

[@FreddyRangel85]

I have noticed that most people that use either Vim or Emacs are usually pretty good programmers. But my theory on that isn't that it makes you better -- it's that the type person that takes the time to learn Vim or Emacs is also the type of person that takes the time to be good at programming as a whole. Kinda like parents who play classical music for their infant children -- it isn't that the music helps per se, it's that the kind of parents that do that will care about education in general.

[@ThePrimeagen]

yeah, a very high likelihood that there is bias in the sampling

[@ss_avsmt]

I'm not a coder or any good at programming, but I use Vim editor for one specific feature. Its fold feature is awesome for my large fracture simulation input files. Those text files reach big sizes and vim is the fastest.

[@irreadings]

Emacs is so good, oh boy. I kinda miss it. Been using VSCode for a while but I nothing beats Emacs's buffer navigation

[@chullupa]

Or that it pays dividends when you have to ssh into a server

[@poweruser64]

I would say this is true for the most part, but I would also say that using an editor like vim or emacs helps you to get into the mindset of and start thinking like a good programmer.

[@ifstatementifstatement2704]

For 22 years I used basic notepad to program. Then one day I went to KZbin and saw programmers had fancy highlighted text.

[@ThePrimeagen]

hahaha. that is great

[@more-sun]

​@@rickandmorty4-ever61nah my uncle still codes in notepad++

[@friedrichmyers]

Didn't do it for 22 years. But I did program with Notepad for a year and I thought damn, compilers are so cool, only the cool guys can run interpreted languages without any errors. Boy was I wrong.

[@Adam-om9si]

no you didnt

[@xanderplayz3446]

I did it for about a year when I was young. I was writing Batch.

[@AlFasGD]

I'm soon becoming 22, got hired as a dev at some company and there's this colleague that uses Neovim I think. Up until that point I would underestimate and laugh at the VI ecosystem, until I saw him in action. And that dude knows his stuff, it felt like magic watching him play with his keyboard, neglecting the presence of his mouse and doing common annoying tasks so unfathomably effortlessly and efficiently. I'm convinced, soon I'll start using those tools myself, and I can guarantee that in the future I'll be thanking myself for improvising on my tool usage, bringing me comfort in the passion I have.

[@ThePrimeagen]

:) i am happy that i could help out :)

[@cemcivelek2152]

By the way, starting those tools usually only requires you to start using those tools. You stick to it, you learn it.

[@coolbrotherf127]

@@cemcivelek2152 I tried using Vim as a beginner and had almost zero productivity because I couldn't figure out how to actually do much besides type in it. I had to learn quite a bit about programming while using more approachable editors like VScode before I could actually use Vim as it's intended to be used.

[@SemiMono]

@@coolbrotherf127 Yep. I would not recommend trying to learn vim (or emacs) and programming at the same time. Very few have taken that approach and succeeded. Get through the learning phase with whatever editor takes the least amount of brain power. Then once you've learned to code and have a little brain power remaining you can start upping your editor game. Neither vim nor emacs made any sense to me when I first tried them. Well, emacs still doesn't make any sense to me. ;)

[@EN_CELL]

​@@SemiMonoi am actually learning programming and nvim at the same time and its working well, what i did was configured nvim to a basic level and as i learn programming more i run into different issues like running code in terminal, auto completion etc and found their plugins and installed them, please tell me if i am going the wrong way

[@headlights-go-up]

I absolutely love that you can be a goof, crack jokes, enjoy some banter, yet still are able to switch on the 'dad tone' and impart some truly useful and valuable insight that you've gained throughout your career. Plus I think what you've shared here can be applied to a lot of other things. I.e. even though JS is certainly flawed and deserves the criticism it receives, I think if someone chooses to learn it, they should adopt the explorative mindset that you talk about here. Dive in, learn what you're using and why, pick things apart and be insatiably curious.

[@ThePrimeagen]

YES YES YES and ... oh yeah, YES!

[@ilya7435]

Stay hungry stay foolish (c) Steve Jobs

[@kamalpeddiboina2922]

@@ilya7435 I think it's actually from The Whole Earth Catalog

[@loocheenah]

maybe it is all about the balance so that the learning curve is not too shallow but not too steep. Wanting to master, say, Python or Linux administration by memorizing all the existing libraries or terminal commands respectively is a bad approach right?

[@SemiMono]

@@loocheenah Correct. What you do not use, you will neither learn nor even remember. That doesn't mean you shouldn't learn things that you don't know how to use. It means that you need to try to use all of the things you learn. Learn what you will use, and use what you learn. Finally, once you've used all of the things you've learned, you hopefully will gain the experience and insight to know which of those things are worth continuing to use and which things can be ignored (every tool has features that are better left unused).

[@dhillaz]

Your point about "don't just do the job" resonates so much with me recently. I used to think everything was a distraction, but ever since I have stepped outside the box just even a little bit, by taking the time to investigate my tools, I have grown my confidence and productivity by an order of magnitude. I think as long as you are making deadlines and not blocking others, use your time to experiment and learn, it will pay you back real quick.

[@wmchristie]

Mastering the editor makes it easier to get into and stay in the flow state when programming.

[@bmarvinb]

Flow state is bad for programming

[@cernilia3211]

@@bmarvinb can you elaborate on that?

[@GreyDeathVaccine]

@@bmarvinb Because? Add an argument or maybe two instead of stating some arbitrary rule.

[@conorx3]

@@bmarvinb being really engaged with what you’re doing is the worst

[@RainbowVision]

@@bmarvinb this statement is false

[@scottiedoesno]

Watching you use Vim a little over 2 years ago was what convinced me to live like this. Thank you for starting my programming career off with a bang!

[@ThePrimeagen]

yayaya! awesome to hear too :)

[@ilya7435]

Yeah it's same for me. It was so cool to see how Prime is fast at Vim with his kinesis keyboard. Time passed and I use Vim for 3 weeks now with same keyboard and know what it's what I was dreaming for a long time. I stared with vim-mode at vsode (sorry for bad words) and it took me about a year to eventually go full Vim. And take my word it's worth it

[@miguelguthridge]

I've spent a few years really learning VS Code, and after 2 years worth of customisations and refinements, I'm pretty damn quick at it. I completely agree that the editor you choose doesn't matter - as long as you take the time to get good at it. It's kinda disappointing how many people I see who don't take the time to change their editor to work in a way that makes sense to them.

[@patrickprucha5522]

Im 60 years old and still learning. You make a very very good point to the future generations. You are 1000% right. You have to learn the tool to master it. And you wont master in 10 minutes. Its a continuous process. Keep up the excellent work!!!!

[@keithprice1950]

The problem with this (even though I totally agree) is that there is just an overwhelming amount of other stuff to learn to even get your foot in the door as a developer. If you are learning web development or new to web development you're already juggling the massive amount of stuff you need to learn just to build simple apps, then throw git/git hub in there also, learning the command line etc. On top of that then learning an editor inside out is just a hassle (at least at the beginning).

[@madhououinkyoma]

Yeah, I love exploring but there’s also almost always something to explore and ways to improve your code and sometimes you just need to move on… uhh

[@Vergillo]

I think exploring and learning editor itself should come way later when your comfortable enough with the enormous stuff like environment you have to work in, VCS you use, codebase and stuff, then you can go ahead and start working on polishing your workflow and one of the steps in that part is learning your IDE

[@SemiMono]

Yeah, learning to use an advanced and frankly esoteric editor early on is a mistake. You don't want lots of brain power dedicated to just typing while learning, and an editor like vim is really only applicable to coding. You will not even be able to appreciate it until you've comfortable writing code. So first, get comfortable coding. Then, get comfortable using VCS. Then, get comfortable using an editor. Oh yeah, and at some point you'll have to learn a codebase and a framework here or there.... those things are ephemeral. Learning them is a temporary gain. Learning your editor and VCS and the basics of programming last you a whole career with relatively little upkeep. The vast majority of new programming techniques and VCS tools and editors are fads, and the few that are actually worth their stuff are usually pretty easy to learn if you were already a master of the preceding tooling. Often times good new paradigms are really just a new name for stuff talented engineers were already doing.

[@mrgalaxy396]

I know this comment is a year old at least by now, but I wanted to chime in. The reason it feels so overwhelming for juniors and newgrads is because they see all this senior level stuff and they think that's the level they need to perform as a junior. You have time to grow as an engineer, you're not supposed to be learning everything at once. It's just a gradual process that goes on over time in the background or actively depending on where you are at in your career/life. The mantra here is to adopt this mentality of constant learning and self-improvement as an engineer and as a person. That can seem overwhelming when starting out, but once you actually level up a bit and build some foundations, you'll find it a lot less intimidating and a lot more rewarding, especially when you compare your own progress as time goes by. You're supposed to be doing this for several decades probably, if you learn all there is to it in just a few years, what are you going to do for the rest of your career? Point is, these things take time. Prioritize what you need to do next (finish college, get that first job, get that next job if you're stuck in a job you hate etc.) and when you accomplish that and you are in a position of comfort, that's when you start to practice stuff like mentioned in this video. You have time to grow into an immaculate engineer, advice like this video is how you get there as part of a process spanning years.

[@d.156]

@@mrgalaxy396 thank you, this actually meant a lot to me ❤

[@goktugerol1127]

Once Linus Torvalds said: Talk is cheap show me the code. Who cares what editor you use, just deliver a good work.

[@AlexGarcia-ir7fl]

Sure, the difference between the vim/emacs is that they deliver good code in half the time cause they mastered the tools. I’m student in the last year who took the time and learned my queries. I spent half the time others did using the orm they were teaching just one case of mastering the tool matters bc it makes you faster and shows you understand.

[@nikfp]

I'm about 3 months in on Neovim and I've learned a number of valuable things since I got started. 1) Sometimes you don't know what you don't know. By setting up Nvim from scratch and adding features as I saw a need, I realized how much VSC has built in, and how much of it I wasn't using. I considered myself decent at using VSC, but now I know I could have gone farther. 2) It's useful to explore different ways of doing things. By learning the modal editing philosophy in Vim and learning how to compose motions together, I realized that I can have a more organic conversation with the editor through the motions than I ever thought possible. VSC in contrast has a model of creating shortcuts tied to combinations of keys, and it took a lot more mental overhead to remember those shortcuts. 3) Whatever tool you use, embrace how it's different. I made the mistake of trying to turn Nvim into VSC and wasn't happy, but when started over from scratch I ended up with something I really, really enjoy using. The key difference was in letting go of some of the things I thought I needed. Most notably, I can find anything I want with the Telescope plugin, and I swapped out the fuzzy find algorithm to fzf-native and it's super fast and fluid and fits the way I want to search. Because of this, I have not needed a file explorer plugin, and the built in Netrw is more than enough for the infrequent need to traverse the file tree visually. All in all, I'm not going back to VSC for daily use, but I'll keep it around for the odd occasion that it has something within reach that I need.

[@airman122469]

Only time I use VSCode is when I’m just starting up a new box, because it’s so fast to get started with. Once I have time to set up my NVim, I never go back to VSCode.

[@SemiMono]

@@airman122469 Hmmm... seems like an issue that should be able to be solved somehow. I'm assuming it's just missing plugins/config? Shouldn't those things be pretty portable? Couldn't you save them off somewhere and just re-download them?

[@alexstrz6995]

Thanks! You've really made me less self conscious about taking way too much time on trying to master and optimize my tools than doing my actual assignments!

[@samgould8567]

At the other end of the spectrum, you can end up fiddling with your tools more than actually using them. At some point with vim and tmux, I stopped fiddling except where there was a clear and immediate benefit, but with Emacs it just never stops. That may speak more to my own problems than with the tool itself, or maybe it just goes to show how malleable and awesome Emacs is.

[@nandans2506]

Whatever tools you use it's incredible seeing people who have mastered their tools. Who are so quick it feels like we are solving problem as we are thinking. Tool isn't coming in between. It's not just about editors. Bash prowess, os prowess, ability to spin up quick servers, prowess with whatever apms, log aggregators, analytics tool they use, db queries etc. Many of us never go deep enough, we'll just figure out something and then think we'll check it out when we have to

[@TheRiquelmeONE]

i remember when i had almost no idea about git and just mindlessly used a tool i did not understand at all. As soon as anything went wrong i was just helpless. I'm so happy that i followed the advice of a coworker who told me to learn how to use git in the console and focus on that even if it is confusing at first. That helped me a lot and now i can use various tools for git and things magically just work now. And in the worst case i can always fix things in the console. Same thing for anything involving linux.

[@dentjoener]

Preach! As a full time Java dev (come at me), I use IntelliJ all day every day. And let me say, every time I have to use another tool by another company or free or whatever, I feel like going back to the stone age. I've been using this for almost 10 years now, and there's no way I will go back to anything else. I love vim as much as the next guy, but to me, the IDE can do anything I need it to do. Code, refactor, git, databases, docker, debugging etc etc. Yes it's $600 a year, but as a contractor, I make this back in a week at most when I use it.

[@780Chris]

I was a VS C*de user until this March, I watched your vim videos and started picking up NeoVim. It’s just so fun customizing everything to my liking and learning/remembering bindings that will make me faster.

[@MrAdamo]

True, VS Code is well known for having zero customization options. There isn’t even an extension store, or documentation from Microsoft about the API. Btw I have an IQ of 1000000.

[@780Chris]

@@MrAdamo Didn’t say anything about VS Code not being customizable, just said it’s fun to fully customize Neovim. Pipe down soy dev.

[@JeffryGonzalezHt]

About 1/2 way through my development career I quit and went to film school. I gravitated towards editing, because computers. I had a teacher that said "You are never done with an edit. You are always up against a deadline. The difference between a good edit and a bad one is how many things you can try. Learn your tools so you can try a bunch of things". He made us use our editor with no mouse by the second class. I feel the same is true in coding. I'm not that good. I can just try a ton of stupid things to get to the more "right" thing in the same amount of time as other people still on their first dumb idea.

[@rb.x]

You’ve encapsulated how to get good at creative computer stuff. This is it!

[@ThePandaGuitar]

nice flex

[@albin6126]

i am really confused about this because 1.people who use vim and vscode and work at same level make same money 2.so when you are using new ai tools for code completion you are anyway faster 3. most time programmers are not writing code like in a typing competition so being fast at using your ide is not a big deal the thing that takes most time in programming is finding solutions and ideas so being good at it make you more productive . so does using vim has any advantage only thing i am sure is that beginners shouldn't be using vim or things like that anyway learning to code is overwhelming for most people so better you an easy to use ide.

[@rodrigolj]

I guess for Lex it makes a lot of sense, since he programs in Python and Jupyter Notebooks are just perfect in VSC*de. It's the only language in which I switch when I have to do any data engineering. I wish it was that simple in Neovim.

[@ThePrimeagen]

good point

[@drishalballaney]

Emacs also has a jupyter notebook package

[@samgould8567]

Unfortunately, the Jupyter notebook package in Emacs (EIN) just doesn’t cut the mustard when it comes to interactive HTML visualizations. If all you need is static rendering, then it is pretty good. The way cells work can be kind of annoying, though, and don’t easily allow for completion or other language integration besides syntax highlighting. All of this could probably be fixed in Emacs, but someone (probably a volunteer) needs to do it. Alternatively, you could just go Full Emacs and craft an Org-centric workflow that is objectively better than Jupyter notebooks in basically every way, but then you can only easily collaborate with other Emacs users instead of the wider base of Jupyter notebook users. At best, you can convert between org and ipynb files, but I’ve tried that and it doesn’t work as well as you’d expect or hope. Unfortunately, this kind of situation is not isolated to Jupyter notebooks in Emacs.

[@desuburinga]

TIL: vs**** is good for something lol

[@_fellow_]

Vim has vim-jukit which makes writing notebooks in vim so easy!

[@filipsodic]

I've been sharing this all around! People are always asking me something along the lines of "What's the deal with you wasting so much time learning and changing up tools?" This does a wonderul job of laying it out and motivating someone to do the same, and it does all of this in under 5 minutes! Thanks, and please keep making videos like this! Btw, I used to say the exact same thing you mock at the beginning :)

[@ThePrimeagen]

i know, don't we all.

[@PeterSteele111]

2 years into my current job and I have found myself slumping back into this mentality of just get the job done and clock out. Watching your vids has definitely sparked up the love I have for the tools and the setup to play around again though. Funny I came across this video when I did because I have been trying to daily drive neovim and getting frustrated with it (I have primarily been using VS Code and PHPStorm), but I am getting better at it. This kinda puts in back into perspective to keep at it. Though I am now into my early to mid 30's at this point, so i don't quite get the luxury of discovering this in my early 20's, but it will have to do. I have been coding since 2004, but back then it was all about making the cool thing or showing off in high school, not so much about learning the tools. One day maybe Ill be able to look back in another 10 years and say hey, youve come a long way. Thanks again for the content, it definitely hits home for me :)

[@ellygan]

Duuuuude i am so fortunate that i stubbled upon your channel - it is so good to have a role model who genuinely cares about his craft 🙌 Thank you for doing what you do, it really does help people so much

[@MrHaggyy]

This is so true in engineering in general. It`s not that important which tools you choose, there are plenty of equally good options out there. But it really matters that it matches your thinking and that you become good at it. Once you work in a bigger group you should settle on view options, the more options you have the more time you need to stay up to date with each tool, and less chance that someone already solved the problem for you.

[@petarkolev6928]

I truly believe talking about this is essential as much as talking about just coding! Thank you for the wonderful video!

[@ThePrimeagen]

^^

[@Jonathan-di1pb]

I had that mindset too for the first few years of programming, but then I started using linux for school and vim and it really forced me to learn them and get good at them because they come so barebones. They are really good learning tools because they basicly force you to dive into the configs

[@quinndepatten4442]

I love the message here. I've been doing more learning in the godot game engine recently. Messing around with different functions and nodes just to try them out. It has really helped my enthusiasm. I'm excited to do development.

[@realMenta]

Nice, pretty good. Messing around with Godot feels so good.

[@DamienSawyer]

I've been coding for food for nearly 30 years and making pretty much these exact points for over 10. I've worked with many people on many teams. The truth is, most of them don't want to know about this and many actively shut it down. There's "no time" to improve the tooling.... so just put up with a 5 minute inner dev loop and hurry up and get the job done. I love your channel man. Listening to you and reading the comments I feel like I've found my tribe.

[@sethm7761]

Emacs and Vim are disciplines. They take time to learn and time to become efficient. And sure, once you're sitting high in your castle on planet emacs or staring into the stars in spaceship vim, you ARE faster and better in every way. But the crazy thing is that the journey of getting there makes you better no matter where you go. Dropping into new languages, you're better when using other editors, when writing a normal assignment/chunk of work. The discipline of learning the tools trains you like nothing else I've experienced Go vim! or emacs!

[@ivanmaglica264]

My history of editors from now to beginning: VScode, Atom, Eclipse, Netbeans (for long time), Clarion (don't look up, not worth the time), Delphi, Turbo Pascal 6, QuickBasic, Logo. Last few are Editor/language combos.

[@TheNycRat]

This is SO TRUE. I Used to use IntelliJ and VSCode, and I didn't even know programs could be compiled without an IDE. Taking the time to learn the tools is definitely the best decision any programmer can make.

[@electrictrojan6719]

>I didn't even know programs could be compiled without an IDE Whoa.

[@armpitpuncher]

What did you use to compile when you used VSCode? I mean, I know it can be set up to compile with some menu options or keyboard shortcuts, but I don't think that's the default. Most people who use VSCode with compiled languages I suspect do it from the integrated terminal.

[@TheNycRat]

​@@armpitpuncher I think i had to install g++, but I had never used it in the terminal, just set it up with a plugin in vs

[@SIMULATAN]

Thanks a lot for this video! You really motivated me to learn vim and get more into Linux around a year ago, and ever since then, I found a lot of joy in learning tools, improving my skills, and like you said, just exploring what's available

[@siriuscrack7393]

Trying to pick up emacs freshman year of compsci, what ultimately got me to drop it and pick up that "i just want the editor out of the way" attitude and use Gedit (GNOME's built-in text editor) for 90% of my assignments up till senior year was the fact that, using emacs without the familiarity, just doing basic text editing was too difficult, and I needed to get those assignments were always time-sensitive. The learning curve on too many "powerful" editors is such that you have to sit through huge stretches of often crucial development time with drastically reduced output, and that's not a bullet many people are willing or even able to bite a lot of the time. I've since switched to VSCode, and the nice thing about it is it's still a plenty powerful editor, but that learning curve isn't there. I think it'd be great if vim and emacs had those training wheels of being a super simple editor on the surface (maybe there are workarounds, idk, lmk if there are!) because that's kindof the biggest stopper on their adoption imo

[@gagagero]

Emacs has cua-mode, which changes keybindings to be the same as regular text editors. Although I wouldn't rely on it long-term. But really, neither Vim nor Emacs aim for simplicity (although Vim is much simpler than Emacs). And it's a good thing too, because they would lose what makes them great if they did that.

[@LysergicKids]

Every career I've worked in that relied on some kind of workstation environment has had various iterations of this same question. With audio production and sound design, the question is "Does the DAW (digital audio workstation) you use matter?" And then with coding it's "Does the IDE you use matter?" In both instances the answer is.. no. Ultimately someone's preference in workstation/IDE will come down to whichever software offers a workflow that the individual feels comfortable using.

[@JoshuaSonOfOne]

Real talk: I've been flirting with Vim for years, but about a month ago, your videos convinced me to give Neovim another try. Now I'm using it professionally and having a blast. I didn't realize learning and configuring an editor could actually be fun! I still use VSC**e now and then for things I haven't quite figured out how to do effectively in Neovim (especially Git diffs and merges), but that list of things is getting smaller and smaller. Thank you so much for your videos. They're fun to watch, and they make a difference.

[@itmeurdad]

Visual St**io proper is the bane of my existence these days. So many developers are dependent on it doing everything for them without any consideration or understanding of what is actually being done. My fear is Code will eventually grow into the same beast, but at least Code is managed in ways which result in actually peeking under the hood.

[@RoyRope]

Yeah I was surprised people at my company, good to above average front-end developers, weren't even able to place breakpoints in their code for debugging... I have plenty more to learn around tooling myself too. The "back-end" developers got this pretty much out of the box by using the JetBrains tooling.

[@jan_Sanku]

Ever since I discovered this channel a whopping month ago, I've been feeling a little bit like an outsider for being that one guy maining VSCode. I'm truly passionate about not just programming, but everything CS. I love exploring and going beyond the topics taught in uni, I've been transitioning to Linux on everything but my main PC (for gaming with AC like Valorant, sadly that's the only thing keeping me there). I'm not just using Linux, I make an effort to explore it and learn about all the behind-the-scenes stuff. Yea it's still basic stuff like mastering chmod or changing my /etc/motd and stuff like that, but it's fun and I'm learning. If a tool has a sucky GUI, I'll use the terminal. I customize everything I don't like about the default behavior. In VSCode, I know all my keybinds and shortcuts, I have well configured extensions, and I can work concurrently with the editor and a separate terminal to do all the testing, git, etc. It could've been any other editor, but VSCode is the one I picked and it's the one I've been learning and improving with for several years now. Knowing how to use it well means it's not in my way, but being able to have very nice looking themes and some more interactive elements personally helps me stay focused. When I'm not working at full efficiency, being able to use my mouse for stuff isn't fast but frees up my other hand. As someone who wants to explore and customize, VSCode is a great option for me. Sure, maybe neovim and other editors can be customized in a similar way, but they lack some other features that are important to me, mostly aesthetics. You making this video made me feel a lot better about myself, and more confident in my decisions. Being a uni student, learning a new editor to the same level I'm at with VSCode isn't feasible, so I'm glad that my choice wasn't THAT bad. It works for me, and at least I'm not one of those guys that just uses it because they don't care to really learn their stuff.

[@HyBlock]

nice essay, didn't read and also don't care

[@jan_Sanku]

@@HyBlock You cared enough to reply. Thank you for your engagement.

[@rb.x]

@@HyBlock I’m baffled that you felt you needed to insult a stranger on the internet.

[@9s-l-s9]

Emacs shines when it comes to creating your own custom workflows. However you need to invest the time. You need to be the kind of person who loves to customize and play with your tools. Not everyone needs that. It is also different from mastering your tool.

[@ThePrimeagen]

100% on this. being an emacs person requires you to love something that others don't. but taking an adventure into vim / emacs for a bit is great for you professionally. learn all parts of the system you wouldn't normally learn about.

[@coffeehousephilosopher7936]

@@ThePrimeagen I mean .. having used a bit of both.. can go wrong with either one :)

[@9s-l-s9]

@@ThePrimeagen I agree with your points. I am trying to say, that emacs imo in particular is different from vim or vscode. Each editor has their own values and user group. Emacs is for the tinkerers. Vim for those that want to really master their tools. VsCode for those that just need a good soludtion for their task.

[@isAif47]

@@9s-l-s9 isn't emacs also a tool? Vim can also be fit for tinkerers.

[@sachindraragul1094]

Yeah. I like all those keyboard centric thingy. I learned vim through Emacs evil mode. Using Doom emacs all the way now.

[@naung01]

I also used netbeans in college for about a year in the same sort of way you did. Then I started getting used to Eclipse for years before moving to using VSCode. After stumbling on your videos/channel, I have started using neovim/lunarvim. I am slowly getting used to it and uncovering more things in it. I am getting close to a decade with programming and I feel like I am just learning things that I should have years ago, just like how you mentioned in your video. Thanks for sharing and talking about these things, gives me some hope that I am making improvements to my work as a developer.

[@ilya7435]

This is exactly what I'm feeling right now and Prime posted new video. It's amazing. It's like the whole Universe kind of helping and listening what you have came up. Thank you Prime it's the best

[@mooncakevp]

Beside the awesome stuff you show us on Neovim and Rust, this is exactly the content why I find you an inspiring engineer. A true mentor. Thank you for this, I hope you will create more of this type of videos. Cheers, rdtechie ( Ricky as you call me lol )

[@ThePrimeagen]

I CALL YOU RICHIE not Ricky! also ty bud :)

[@mooncakevp]

@@ThePrimeagen loll I'm really deaf sometimes. 😂

[@rumplstiltztinkerstein]

It may not be as fast as neovim, but learning the shortcuts in vscode, installing extensions for speed and using snippets can do wonders in VSCode.

[@josemonge4604]

Yeah the same over here. There are functionalities inside vim that aren't as good as in VSCode. Matter of taste.

[@vaisakh_km]

it's just that i am stuck it eval vim and can't get out :) , first time i escaped using :q!, but now in any other editor i type jjkk constantly so i had to open vim

[@mateator25]

any recommendations for extensions

[@peacemekka]

A well setup vim will be the most performant solution.

[@kendralewis5883]

Honestly, so true. This idea can be applied to many things in life. But as it pertains to software, omg...

[@samuellawrentz]

Recently got addicted to your videos bro! After watching this, I went ahead and setup insane shortcuts on VS Code and am able to do stuff 10x more.

[@AntoniGawlikowski]

I love this video - the best from ThePrimeagen IMO (maybe apart from the VIM fundamentals series). Thank you! Also, there was noticeably less screaming which I find a great step up :)

[@alvarojneto]

Okay, thanks for verbalising so well why I decided to stick with Vim. That said, the thing about using VSCode vs Vim, Vim forces you to get good at it, VS Code lets you get by with your mouse

[@Leeway4434]

you can use your mouse in vim too

[@AWriterWandering]

@@Leeway4434indeed. Just add “set mouse=a” to your .vimrc file and you’re golden.

[@NathanTenney]

This is very similar to a video I made for my students a year ago, and that I share with each class since then. Become a master of your craft. Learn your tools, learn how to use them efficiently.

[@migo70]

I don't think I'd be as excited or have as much fun with programming without having your videos or live streams, they hype me up to do better, be better. I am always willing to try new things, get stuck in on the configuration of things and stick with it until I have it done. I feel such a sense of pride after which keeps me going, this wouldn't have happened without you, thank you.

[@viniciusrolandcrisci272]

I use vscode with a lot of vim customizations/extensions and I think i'm productive and fast enough. when I've tried to configure vim or neovim, I lost so much time to just configure some autocompletion or something basic for and IDE that I just gave up and stick with vscode also there is some ecosystems (e.g elixir) that only vscode supports all feature of the language server, I think that's because vscode is good enough for the majority of developers

[@vaisakh_km]

yes that's why neovim distributions exists... lunarvim, astro.nvim, nvchad etc.. i use lunarvim and also helps in development of it....

[@raenastra]

I'm in a similar situation - I went full Neovim for a year, and eventually decided that I was more productive in VSCode with vim motions. Maybe it's because I had a C#/.NET freelance project recently (easier to use Visual Studio for those projects), or had an internship recently where I had to use Windows (harder to get things to work, terminal experience isn't great, etc), but I've been in a lot of situations recently where trying to configure vim took much more time than just using VSCode and getting started on the projects. This helped me realize that 80% of the benefit of vim is not vim itself, but the motions. I miss plugins like Telescope and Harpoon, but it is nice to have all of the basic language features work out of the box (completion, formatting, LSP, debugger, etc), even when I try new languages. All tools have their own tradeoffs, and I think it's good to make an informed decision about which tradeoffs you'd like to make.

[@vaisakh_km]

@@raenastra yes, that's why i am learning a lot of text editors, like just now i completed a course on pycharm mainly because i had to help a friend and it's pissing me off when is too slow in such a powerful ide while i tell him to do something, and i don't think he will learn it but i am also learning how to use advanced features of code blocks, eclipse and a ton of other ides, and learns thier keybindings than using a vim plugin And implement what i liked in vim

[@ThatKid22101]

I honestly decided to stick with VSCode mainly for school and to learn it as you said, I think after a few years and I've gotten more confident with programming and building my own projects I'll start to transition to Vim or Zed once it has solid Linux and/or Windows support. One step at a time.

[@guitaripod]

We can all agree that you should master Git 🤝

[@KoRnFactory]

This is the real thing. Engage and learn the thing you are using, then maybe you'll find it's great, but maybe you'll find something it can't do, and look elsewhere. There's no point changing your tool if you didn't even know you had needs it won't suit. I feel that wanting learn and understand gives me back more than anything else.

[@benthebenevolent1001]

I had an experience like this. I developed the habit of using Dev-C++ because that's what I started on (with some self-made updates such as replacing the included MinGW c++11 with c++23), but then I found it holding me back. I realised that, when making a .dll (I use Windows still) I would have to change the compiler settings 4 times. Using Notepad the the command prompt, however, I simply have to save the file, then type 4 g++ commands into shell. On top of that, Notepad had find-replace functionality, speeding up necessary changes considerably. Notepad and the command prompt is better that what, as a beginner, felt like the most user-friendly IDE I could find.

[@YouilAushana]

Stubbornness and pride. The root of all evil

[@morgadoapi4431]

Its super important to choose the right IDE, the right programming language, the right framework, the right laptop, mechanical keyboard, learn the right architecture, learn all AI tools, the right cloud provider, the right ci/cd pipeline tool and when you're done ONLY then can you start developing.

[@kyuss789]

I came to this realisation last week, after spending maybe a month this time around trying to get good a vim and it just wasn’t clicking for me I decided. “Fucking it I’m just going get really good at vscode” and accepted I won’t be as fast as I possibly could. Since then I have focused on optimising the way I use vscode by removing all the bullshit and forcing myself to use the command palette to get around. I have learnt more about vscode in a week that the past 4 years of using it. Flying around a big codebase and finding what I want in secs is so satisfying.

[@andrewc8125]

Because your Vim series, I have switched to Vim. Now I cant be happier than ever

[@writeabyte]

It’s hard to appreciate how much mental bandwidth you use on basic editing tasks when you aren’t good in your editor. I tell the SWE’s that report to me “you don’t have to use vim, but you should know how to… 1. Refactor effortlessly 2. Peek at type definitions/parameter hints 3. Go to definition 4. Go back where you just were 5. Search 6. Open file by name 7. Switch tabs 8. Toggle integrated terminal All BLAZINGLY FAST” …which usually means at least installing the vim plugin for whatever IDE they are using 😂

[@ThePrimeagen]

yeah, at this point, i don't see why people are not learning vim motions. they are truly incredible. Vim the editor? i get that. there is a jump there that isn't for everyone.

[@theodorealenas3171]

@@ThePrimeagen oh vim motions are so bad I spent a day remapping all the keys, a few days after I first got into it. They're all scattered and random with zero consistency. And basic commands, like save, are oddly hard. Today I use default Vim everything, but I have a mapping for save and test in insert mode.

[@jonathanschober1032]

This is actually very helpful. I primarily used the JetBrains suite (RubyMine) starting in 2015 before switching to VSCode in 2019 (typescript) and using it since. For me, I was never scared of the command line. I’ve got more of a DevOps/SRE/Systems interest anyways. I rarely used the git integrations in my editors, and primarily used them just for file/code navigation and text editing, with the occasional debugging environment. I was feeling bad for “not learning vim”. And I am starting to give it a shot, but it’s a huge learning curve. I did learn my editor. I learned the command line (massive use of integrated terminals in VSCode). I don’t think I am the typical, “let the editor get out of my way” guy, but I’m also not dispositioned to customize everything. I guess I’m saying, I’ve learned to use my tools well, but I want to always be willing to learn a new tool if nothing else for the sake of continuing to learn and discover new ideas

[@ewan3085]

I've been programming for 3 years, currently 19. Never realised, but kinda naturally like that. Learned C, then C++, then was curious in computer graphics; OpenGL. Learnt Game Engine architecture, and of course, Neovim. The only problem is, I have severe CFS and POTS, so can't work or go out really cause my body is so destroyed. Although, I think this advice is very underrated.

[@andresdominguez5738]

I think you have a very good point, I've been using vscode for like five years and really take the time to master it, but resently i think that me and my projects have started to outgrowing vscode, or more precisely the ram consumption of vscode has outgrow my workstation, so im trying to migrate to nvim but is surprising the amount of time that takes me to do the same things in a new editor. As always, great video!

[@ure2grit931]

3:56 best part of the video: mentality of curiosity

[@Kasiux]

Tweaking your editor into oblivion is just procrastinating on another level

[@kevintyj]

I’m right in the phase of wanting to get better at my tools. I’ve been using the jetbrains suite for so many years and sure I know the shortcuts but vim really changed the way I think about tools. It’s hard learning the movements and forcing my self to use it but I know it will be worth it in the long run so I’m keep chugging along. I can’t agree with you more. Plus configuring nvim and fish is just fun and satisfying :)

[@seifenspender]

I only notice how efficient I got at VS code, when colleagues look over my shoulder and tell me I'm a wizard. Or when I move to a different machine without my profiles. Then I feel like the slowest coder alive. And you know what? That feeling is pretty cool. But still, Neovim people look like arcane wizards to me.

[@matthewlloyd3255]

Sometimes...as I found out in my last employment - if you're on a job where you only have shell access and can use basic tools like 'vi' on a linux server with command line only tools - then, you need to learn how to use such tools, and use them well. It's no good if you have to go to a client site to fix a problem but it turns out you can't because you don't have access to all your more fancy tools that you have access to back at head office.

[@jared8411]

His use of Netbeans, it's like describing the same mental image that we both share.

[@ThePrimeagen]

its crazy! netbeans was a vibe

[@berkayurun]

Prime is like the cool dad of programming. Thanks for expanding my horizon, Prime!

[@Antebios]

As a developer for the past 25 years, I couldn't agree more. It took me a while to switch to VS Code, and recently I've been discovering more and more extensions for VS Code that have been saving me so much headache and time. So whatever IDE you use, learn it! Learn the shortcuts!

[@coffeehousephilosopher7936]

appreciate the feedback Prime; this is what people need to hear.

[@theoceanman8687]

I have been an emacs junkie for about a year now. Though I started dabbling with VS Code, and I am impressed by it.

[@sirsainted]

"I spent a lot of time on stuff that wasn't important" is literally the whole purpose of using vim

[@DrOptix]

Nvim is not about coding in a terminal and looking cool. Yeah I tried it and it stick to me after you showed me how shit is done. Now maybe someone like sublime because of the plugin ecosystem or some other things like vscode better integration with debuggers and/or profilers. What was revealing for me @ThePrimeagen was the usefulness of going keyboard only, or at least 95% keyboard and to use vim moves. yes the vim, the editor might suck for you for various reasons, but vim moves are actually the juice that makes the stake awesome! Thank you for showing me the actual juice.

[@ThePrimeagen]

agreed. the motions seem like a must, vim is for the adventurer

[@victorcadillogutierrez7282]

VSCode or any editor is the fastest way to start, but when you go deeper, like trying different languages I found myself fixing broken shortcuts all the time; yea vim has alot of commands, but we don't need or use all of them; so you only use a few and custom shortcuts, in the end I spent less time configuring it from 0; and it doesn't act weirdly because you tell it how to behave, and always using the same shortcuts, so in the end is very minimalistic and because you are using shell commands all the time you have a smooth time working in the cloud or docker.

[@Sw3d15h_F1s4]

I use vscode and visual studio whenever possible, not because they are good ides, but because I've gotten comfortable and quick with them.

[@meltygear5955]

Hell, I'm 40 years old and it still worth getting into the curiosity and mastery mindset, assuming that I'll be hopefully doing this for whatever few decades I have in front of me, even if it turns into just a hobbyist activity. If you're 20-something? There's no excuse not to.

[@Darksvnn78]

When coding in vim I have a lot more fun, its like I am solving a puzzle just by moving around and editing and if you like programming I think having a good time while doing it is very important

[@Spaghetti-cowboy]

Of course it matter brotha, as a unity dev being able to connect visual studio or rider to my editor is s2n. If you’re writing silly python or js scripts sure it doesn’t matter ;)

[@sortof3337]

love u primo. i was fortunate enough to be taught this in school by a teacher who wrote beautiful code even on paper. although my choice of weapon would be neovim for everything text. copilot makes it cherry on top.

[@RenaudAlly]

Thanks Prime. I met an alumni who was masterful at Arch who introduced me to Vim last year. Over the time I have gained some proficiency with a custom config as I'm diving into more advanced motions now and building a muscle memory. Thanks to your videos I was introduced to new ideas like using fzf, tmux and harpoon with nvim. I hope to take an explorative mindset born out of a deep interest in the field for the rest of my life :)

[@johnterpack3940]

You may not realize it, but that is precisely the distinction between a craftsman and a laborer. A craftsman's toolbox looks like a shrine. Give a laborer the same set of tools and he'll throw them in a sack.

[@personator]

the existence of Lex Fridman directly implies the existence of Yacc Fridman

[@pedrohvmadureira]

In the company where I'm working now, my tech leader and PO said to me that I should considerate using VScode instead of neovim, unfutonatly I'm not very good at arguing, and now everyone sees me as rude and rebellious.

[@StupidusMaximusTheFirst]

No, I think you actually did the right thing. IDEs by trying to make things easier, and they do, sometimes have waaaay too many features. And when they do, you don't need to know them all, just the ones that click to you, the ones you like, or the ones that are related to what you do. nano and vim are the straightforward simple kind, I wouldn't even call them IDEs they're just text editors, but vscode or visual studio or eclipse or emacs are not. Why spend time learning stuff that you'll probably use infrequently or who knows, you might change your IDE later. There are more important things related to what you do, like language features, libraries, etc. So yeah, you did the right thing. You never go full IDE.

[@jmunguia29]

This was amazing and perfectly describes what I’ve been trying to work on, amazing video sir

[@chillydoog]

Thanks big dowg! I love you.

[@andrejbartulin]

Problem about VS Code is that it is being shipped with telemetry. You can use verison without telemtry, but then exstensions don't work. On the end of day, telemtry is more important than Vim bindings

[@ThePrimeagen]

hmm that seems awful

[@petrpechkurov3095]

Thank you, Mr. ThePrimeagen!

[@CyperN077]

The grass isn't always greener on the other side, it's greener where you till the soil.

[@sir_no_name1478]

That is also the reason, why I think you can be as fast as a Vim user in IntelliJ. Often Vim user tell me, that you can not stop using the mouse when doing that or you can not use this special feature etc. But nearly every feature is either already part of the JetBrian IDE ord can be installed via Plugin. And of course some of you may wa to point out that it costs some money and vim does not, which is a fair point. But in generell I think that the difference between Vim and other users is, that Vim forces you to use the Keyboad, to cofigure it, to learn the tool chain etc. While other editors only give you the possibility to do that, most people will not use it.

[@AwesomeDwarves]

This is really timely for me because there's this senior engineer I look up to and I've seen how he edits code. He looks like a fucking wizard with how he uses emacs. I had never seen anyone code like that and it inspired me to try to become a code wizard myself. I tried Neovim and while I liked certain aspects of it (the vim part of it), I found myself trying to recreate all the things I liked in VSCode. So I decided, what the hell, why can't I have both? So now I use a vim text editor with VSCode and a bunch of modified hotkeys to make my frequent actions easier. That's not really the point though. It doesn't matter how efficient or effective your editor is, what matters is that it's fitted to you. Maybe that means using an out-of-the-box editor that you've learned, maybe that means making a monsterous VSCode Vim abomination. As long as you feel empowered and at home within it, as long as it makes you want to keep learning new things, well then that's the perfect editor.

[@OmniscientOCE]

It's a great point. I've only recently really buckled down and tried to get good at git and memorising tmux keybindings. Yeah, everyone can do git add -> commit -> push and branch and pull. But I want to understand it and master it as a tool. Same with other stuff. Hopefully it saves me time in the long run..

[@Muttisuri]

I've been exploring emacs, but honestly of all the things it was global-visual-line-mode behaviour and the fact that the documentation tricked me and told me that setting line-move-visual to nil would do what I want, but it didn't work. So I'm currently unhappy with emacs. However, I don't regret my experience, but for a bit I'm returning to vscode, which I was decent with already. But I agree that curiosity is critical.

[@jesuslopezanson5329]

Abstract: Become great at whatever editor you use

[@apefu]

This is real talk. But it doesn't stop at the editor. Also, it always change and it never stops. Set aside some time to be curious.

[@ThePrimeagen]

always be curious

[@lamjeri]

Learn to use the tools properly - I second this is any craft. I'm not a programmer, but the day I decided to suck it up and learn some basic Regex so that I can use it within the find and replace function, that thing was a life changer. And it didn't even take much, just a few symbols for newline, start and end of string, non-greedy search and symbol ranges. Suddenly, random yanking of parts of text or turning words on separate lines to a one-liner separated by columns is no longer a chore. It's even fun to do that.

[@jimmorrison2657]

I have used VSCode, Netbeans, Android studio, JBuilder, Code warrior etc. But the best by far was Eclipse. That was a few years ago, I don't know what it's like now. But it was much better than VSCode.

[@xypnox]

lunarvim a basic wrapper over neovim makes some sane defaults and is suitable for out of the box development, probably much more smoother shifting experience for people coming from VSCode. I shifter from neovim to lunarvim just so I wouldn't have to setup all the basic things, such as lsp etc.

[@theena]

Since I am not a programmer, I was the same with Word. Until one day I just snapped and uninstalled it out of spite. And then stumbled into the rabbit hole that is Vim. Here I am 18 months later, and I can't imagine writing on anything other than (Neo)Vim. On another note: I wonder if there is a sub-culture of peeps who are REALLY into Nano.

[@ThePrimeagen]

yeah... the nano thing would be very interesting. there has to be a group of people that just love it