Does Your Pedaling Technique Affect Your Cycling Performance? The Science

[@DylanJohnsonCycling]

Thanks for watching! Be sure to subscribe if you don't want to miss any science based cycling videos. If you want to stay up to date on my training and racing follow me on Instagram. I also announce when I post new videos there: instagram.com/dylanjawnson/

[@buildsexualarousaldefeatth6313]

Very good Experience

[@fsctorvamcarbon759]

What about Q rings and Osymetric ring?

[@guspecunia5887]

Coach Dylon, merry Christmas... I have an old set of Power cranks... I found that using them in the off season ( now ) in cadence work have helped me in keeping a good pedal circle... is it all in my head or is this a good tool for your topic?

[@steveb3671]

@@guspecunia5887 @dylan johnson I was going to ask the same question. Power Cranks (www.powercranks.com/) seem to have gone off the radar since 2012, presumably for a good reason. I enjoyed and learned from your videos on pedalling syles and related topics. There is some published studies on Powercranks (on their website). Perhaps a mention in a future video would be interesting?

[@michaelsingh843]

Question, does keeping my legs loose benefit me? I came across this idea of pedaling whilst training with cadence, pedaling faster causes bouncing but if I keep the legs loose and just focus on speed I can. Like always your input will be appreciated

[@Talkitoutt]

This channel > GCN. Love the science and research focused content!

[@noj1yt]

Singing 'Love Hime' increases your cadence exponentially.

[@nathanhaelquizon7518]

yup, that is true

[@panzerveps]

For me, it only works when I'm at the edge of breaking.

[@flxgreen6346]

Me i normally say 1:2, 1:2 to maintain cadence

[@vincentlenart1697]

yes!!! Love that show!

[@kpraz]

do it all the time 😆

[@geoffnash2609]

I did a bike fitting course a couple of years ago. We had some pretty advanced tech and were looking at pedalling vectors, we could track pedal force, power, as well as horizontal and vertical vectors. It was lead by a euro sports biomechanic who works with world tour teams. We looked a pedal forces when pulling up. The issue for cyclists is that while one foot pulls up, the other leg is trying to push down (where the majority of force is generated). The ability to time this pull up and not work against the leg on the opposite side pushing down is extremely difficult, if not impossible at cadences of 80 - 90+ rpm. The data we saw showed that although cyclists can pull up, this usually resulted in applying an opposing force to the leg trying to push down. Essentially one leg worked against the other. He had data from elite track riders (fixed gear) and showed they were very good at unloading the opposite leg at very high cadences. It takes a lot of practice to become that efficient. They did not pull up. The best they could do was unload the opposing leg. The only exception was a track start, where they had to get a big (huge) gear moving from a standstill. I do not coach one legged drills or get riders to pull up. I just want them to pedal naturally and injury free and become efficient at a broad range of cadences. Push down. Push hard. Push often.

[@TimpBizkit]

You can see if one leg is fighting the other with "power cranks" or independently ratcheting cranks. If you don't know what they are it's like having a ratcheting wrench on either side of your bike with a pedal stuck on the handle end. Both push forwards but will "coast" in the backwards direction, so one pedal can't drive the other. If one leg is fighting the other, they will get out of sync from the 180 degree position. The only thing they can't help you with is if one muscle is fighting the other in the same limb. E.g. quadriceps and hamstring, gluteus max and hip flexor. Unfortunately muscles aren't perfect springs and are quite lossy in eccentric "contraction." I mean it's useful for activities like going down stairs, but this is wasting energy from your "PSU" that could be turning the wheels of your bike faster. As cadences go north, it is increasingly difficult to not have muscles work against each other. For instance, bending and straightening your arm, as you get faster, your biceps and triceps are contracting at the same time. I suppose you just have to learn it like a drummer. My last question is, with 2 joint muscles like the hamstring, are some opposing muscles inevitable? Usually the quad and glute are used together, but the hamstring can add a bit more force to the job the glute is doing pushing the thigh down, but it would fight the quad as it bends the leg vs straightening it. You'd use the glute and hamstring together for scraping back with your foot. I think it's also inevitable in any recumbent cyclist not using clipless. You need to put pressure on the pedal to keep your foot from falling down off of it, so use clipless pedals on a recumbent bike.

[@PolarBear9733]

Wow! Talk about busting apart a long held cycling belief! I can't tell you over how many decades I have heard the advice that you should always "pedal in circles". Truly an epiphany if there ever was one!

[@eudaenomic]

Stomper: 30-60 rpm/spinner 60-90 rpm. I am a stomper, toe down and my power stroke begins at 7:30-8:00 (with 6:00 at bottom) and stroke ending at 6:00. I pulled and pushed at the same time. Seat position is full forward and high +2.5" from nominal standard for a 32" inseam. 56/44 tooth front and 12-34 rear cassette. Arm length 73 but have often raced with 72. Position of stroke centered with bicycle fixed to body: stroke perpendicular to pedal (no wobble/ side to side shifting). My favorite bike was a Rigi Bici Corta but the amount of torque I placed on the frame would bend it.

[@saltycycling]

Interesting video, as always. I'm personally not an advocate of any specific technique but would like to notice that in most, if not all, of these studies the test group consisted of people who normally pedal with the 'pushing' technique. This means that any other technique will always appear less efficient, as it will involve typically underdeveloped muscles - say adductors, hamstrings - simply not much used if you're only ever 'pushing'. Would be interesting to see a study where one group consists of subjects that prefer the 'pushing' and another that naturally 'pull' and have them try each others techniques.

[@mcorbett01]

What a very useful video. It’s great that the answer is basically ‘Do what comes naturally’ 😁👍🏻

[@TheNickbb10]

next video: Flats vs Clips, the great debate! Been using flats while coming back from a broken ankle, finally got the clips back on and surprised to find no difference in power numbers/HR/segment times between the two. Maybe max power could be lower on flats, not quite far enough along in rehab to test that properly yet... Better bike control on the tech clipped in, that's for sure! Love the channel, keep up the good work!

[@sineadtwomey5553]

I have wondered about this for SOOOOO long. Awesome vid thanks!

[@seanlee6955]

Above and beyond answer to a question I’ve been looking for an answer to for so long. Excellent, thank you.

[@myasterr]

It’s already like 50th video I watch on your channel, just want to say huge thanks for all that hard work. You don’t really need much more from youtube on cycling training whatsoever, given that this channel exists

[@deverenfogle3201]

I literally changed my HR by around 15-20bpm, while still keeping the same cadence and power, by not trying to pedal in circles (I.e. trying to actively “scrape” my foot or pull with my hamstring) vs. concentrating pushing down harder on the pedal. Being able to relax the inactive leg greatly reduced fatigue and HR. But still making sure the off leg isn’t providing any resistance to the on leg. That’s what I think “smooth” circles mean.

[@samyarabi9033]

stop noo, i was improving soo much when focusing on pushing down, i was like people need to not find about this if i want to move up on strava :'DD

[@LucaBonato]

You used more the ileopsoas, a hip flexor to pull up your pedal, the hamstring act more like a hip extensor in cycling

[@deverenfogle3201]

luca bonato that, but I definitely used the hamstring as the flexor. I literally learned from some tri athletes that more power was produced on the pull. But what they thought as power was likely torque. I’d always get hamstring cramps when cycling long distances. Much better to be using the big quads to produce power than the “strings”. So surprising how much lower my HR became.

[@franmcgowan4068]

@@deverenfogle3201 Same with cleat position. The further forward the cleats, the more the calves are being used and they're tiny and easily exhausted compared to the big quads.

[@deverenfogle3201]

Temple of Ridicule You’re funny!

[@bergeracvandamme]

Great video and it confirms my own experience as a cyclist of 30 years who knows a lot of other cyclists ranging all the way from good amateur up to professional. I've found that my power output and efficiency are the best when I just pedal in whatever way feels the most natural, and of all the best cyclists I've ever known, none have ever made any particular effort to improve (or even given any real thought to) their pedalling technique over and above trying to keep it smooth rather than jerky. I'd guess that if you can comfortably ride on rollers for 15 minutes then your pedalling technique is fine.

[@1crazypj]

Almost 25 yrs ago (1996~97? ) I found using just one foot while clipped in helped with learning how to control pedaling. (obviously, alternate between right and left for 10~15mins at a time) It encourages 'smother' circles which doesn't mean much at low rpm but at high rpm makes a massive difference to staying upright and on track. It takes several weeks before feeling 'natural but you train' your pedal stroke and it definitely helped. At the time, my max cadence could get to 172rpm (about 47mph) but 'normal' was closer to 80rpm. As a hobby cyclist who only re-started riding at ~40, I I thought it was pretty good and didn't actually cost any cash. 'Professional' set up and training wasn't widely available and was incredibly expensive at the time. I was only doing it as a low impact keep fit regime .

[@TheStockBandit]

Always great, Dylan, thank you for this! Had a biomechanic expert recently comment on my technique, kinda got in my head actually, but now I can relax thanks to the science and studies you've shared!

[@JordyJayHomer]

Spot on!! The myth of circular pedalling, or any variation there of, has been shitting me for several years. To ride fast, you've gotta pound the crap out of the pedals on the down-stroke. Here's MY pedalling drill: loosen your shoes so you can practise focusing on pushing only. The main purpose of clipped pedals is to stop your feet slipping off during frantic moments, and ensure that the feet are always in the same position. That said, you may occasionally need to pull up on the pedals during very short accelerations off the saddle which, even if that's only for 3 seconds in a race, is very important. A lot of coaches try to complicate things such as pedalling to justify their existence.

[@kylescicluna1541]

Me: *is doing homework* Notifications: Does Your Pedaling Technique Affect Your Cycling Performance? The Science Me: Well then lets find out

[@brauljo]

Dammit I just came to KZbin because of a reply notification and this video was in my recommended, damn procrastination.

[@garydewberry]

That was me too... except I'm about to go into surgery 😂😂

[@kylescicluna1541]

@@garydewberry get better soon mate! :)

[@CandiiBanks]

Me at work 😂

[@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed]

What have you been doing this whole time?

[@brokenrecord3523]

Good research - Exactly what we need The comments on copying your heroes, is like fishing. When someone in the boat hooks a fish on a chartreuse lure, everyone reels in and switches to chartreuse, then it's white, then red... My dad would tell me, that the best lure is one that is in the water.

[@jeffs5519]

Reading your comment on Fathers Day- he would be proud you listened and shared.

[@filipemcosta]

What I wonder is, over the course of an endurance race, does alternating the pedalling between pushing and pulling every say… 30km, can have an effect on efficiency, by allowing micro-resting of some muscle groups. So, not one technique is better, but maybe using both can be more efficient?

[@marekzmazur2077]

Almost at 50k subscribers! Keep up the good work.

[@DancerOfClouds]

Awesome discussion on an age-old problem. Cadence and Technique. From much experience, I have learned that I am most comfortable when my foot kind of floats in the shoe at the bottom of the pedal stroke.

[@michaelnewell1]

Some points you may have missed, pedaling at a low cadence recruits more of the major muscle groups. Pedaling at a higher cadences recruits the smaller muscles. This gives you the ability to train both groups. You can read many articles. However, people who pedal at less than 75 cadence as theirs”normal” struggle when there is a major change of pace. So. If you are saying that pedaling within a certain cadence range is about personal comfort. Yes, studies agree. But the caveat is, there is a tipping point. And for those who take your posts as gospel, there needs to be a little disclaimer. If your cadence is too low, and I am talking less than 75 rpm, then you will struggle with many aspects of racing.

[@tgarvey4]

This is a key point for triathlon as well. There are some muscles you'll want to save.

[@geoffnash2609]

Muscle recruitment is based on force, not pedal speed. You can pedal at 30rpm but if the force (torque ) is low it's still slow twitch. A track sprinter winding out at 140rpm and 1500+ watts is a fast twitch athlete. To recruit fast twitch fibres, power output has to be at least around FTP. This seems to be the tipping point for recruitment. Compared to a gym, where 6 - 12 reps are used, pedalling force at low cadences is still very low as a % of maximal force. 50rpm for 5 minutes is 250 reps. So efforts need to be high force as well as low cadence. I agree with you about the importance of being able to adapt and accelerate efficiently with leg speed. However, if you are in a bunch at 50% of your FTP and 75rpm, you are not going to struggle with an acceleration. If you are at 120% of your FTP at the same point, you are in trouble.

[@hiddenrob6289]

Lets be honest we all love cycling videos this is just what I need to get it going the blood I love it. I always watch these before I go out and get my body moving. I love when I always watch one of these, and then put up my heavy playlist I love like Delta Parole and then I just go haaaaard!!!! Tactic hasnt let me down yet.

[@mikewoodd4432]

Notes from the field. From riding fixed gear on track I learned that to whip up into a high cadence at high power smoothly means a little bit of pedal lift, it keeps your butt planted on the seat at 130+ rpm. On the road the same works to attack a short climb with high cadence while seated which to me helps minimise strain on muscle fibres at the expense of aerobic rate. On a very long endurance ride trying to force a toe up pedal lift style to increase cadence while tired led me to a shin injury of all things. All told, don't overthink things but a well trained smooth fast seated pedaling technique is a good tool in the kit.

[@danielday713]

Thanks again, Dylan. As always, a balanced and well researched perspective. I’m closer to 60 than I am 50, so I’ve been at this for more than a couple of decades. Adaptation to terrain, the passage of time (knees are older; 😂), and changes in bike technology have either conspired to make me less efficient, or have combined to make me wiser in how I distribute the load with each stroke of the pedal. I suspect the latter to be true.

[@slowerandolder]

We're at the other end of LeMond's aphorism; it never gets easier, we just go slower.

[@lix2635]

Really fantastic video with great evidence! It reminds me that the ankle flex at the bottom of the pedal stroke would greatly impact the saddle height, making the methods based on inseam and leg lengths inherently inaccurate. It’s fascinating to realize when sciences are put together, they are consistent with each other! There also seems to be one more question left on the table - should the ankle flex be fixed or varied throughout the pedal stroke.

[@ltonetto]

This is quality stuff in your videos. Real science, not GCN's opinion on such important topics.

[@jaydesimone4297]

Great video! It seems a lot of the tests compared a rider's preferred method to the other methods during a one-off test. I would think that to truly determine if one method is better than another, the riders would need to be equally proficient in all techniques for a fair comparison (and/or track progress as proficiency is gained). This probably applies to cadence, as well, at least as far as determining if one is objectively the best. The obvious takeaway here, though, is that pedaling technique changes are a low-priority item and only should be considered if all other training gains have been maximized.

[@kirkkettlebell6409]

Enjoy all these science based videos...keep them coming:)

[@GHWMR]

Good to know. I feel it does help to focus on something technical to 'block' myself from focusing on exhaustion or something else which is not productive.

[@notaphish]

Great video, loved all the references to papers!

[@maarduc1]

Thanx Dylan for trying to explain a phenomenon as difficult as pedaling technique. As a former Tour de France rider I invested a lot in my pedaling coördination. And it payed off a lot. While you measure aspects of the bike and ask riders to adapt a certain kind of technique on the bike I oppose the technique of using your body. As a starting athlete I was not a good "dancer on the bike" so to speak. I didn't use my body in the right way. I was crooked and I didn't move very well. Your body can adapt to any kind of circumstance ie length of the cranck, hight of the saddle etc. But a lot of cyclists are not able to use their body in the right way. If you claim then that you have to use either technique you're comfortable with you miss the-adapt-your-body point IMHO To work on your body, balance and coordination results in higher efficiency on the bike. For me that meant higher cadence (±106/min), sitting motionless only moving the legs. The feeling on the top moments was to have "the force': pulling AND pushing and then flying. To maintain that even in the pain-cave took me a lot of training not in the least mentally. Looking forward to your opinion on that

[@1carusjohn32]

I've read and thought about this much over the last few years. Your fitness level will define the sustained effort, watts, that you can put out overtime. Not sure your body really cares about a really even cicular load or predominantly downward force, over the period of many revolutions it will just average the effort. It appears that trying to force your body into an unnatural movement tends to lead to inefficiencies, not surprisingly. But I think a little unweighting of the lifting pedal to prevent any back pressure makes sense. Also, hammering right down into the pedal might not be a good idea, at 6 o'clock you can stand on it and it wont be going anywhere. So for me, it's force at top part of revolution and a little unweighting of the upward leg. ( probably more lifting from the hip than pulling up the foot) Whatever works for you I guess.

[@konstantintomilin1826]

Actually trying to pedal circles helped me improve cadence and power when riding at a high intensity. Naturally I was pushing too hard towards the end of the downstroke which is obviously not so efficient. But when I became aware of that and started trying to ease the pressure on the pedal just before the crank reaches the downmost position and then lift the foot as fast as possible, I was able to increase the cadence and speed immediately without any increase in the effort intensity. So I guess working on pedaling technique can help if your "natural" pedaling style is not very efficient.

[@Josepowerzoro]

Yep so true

[@ErrybodyGetTypsy]

I had a similar experience! Getting a little more "dainty" with my stoke allowed me to move the pedals faster without an increased effort. I suspect that when experimenters ask cyclists to use a pedal technique they barely use, they are less efficient.

[@DeanCleavenger]

Thanks for this Dylan. Nice job.

[@tgoods5049]

A few weeks ago I was thinking "It would be awesome if Dylan discussed pedaling efficiency..."

[@hendipray1016]

You are right, each of us have our cozy cadence and style.. We improve it by push it little by little everytime we ride.. Then we found out that our power increased and pedalling style become smoother.. It means we can go faster and faster next time we ride, and less fatigue..

[@cyc00000]

Great video, the whole pedal circles, or pull up scams have finally been put to rest.

[@kn9z]

Brilliant in depth explanation! Thank you!

[@KaydenKelly]

Impressive breakdown of all the pedaling research!

[@bosschu]

I think that is because the extensor muscles are actually more powerful and efficient as we push down, we are doing hip and knee extension, thus, we are using our glutes, quads and helped by hamstrings which are the most powerful muscles of our whole body while when we pull up, that is hip and knee flexion, that are our hip flexors, hamstrings and calves which are weaker

[@erickm968]

Great video, always enjoy watching a video with a solid scientific base. Thank you!

[@jameslee-pevenhull5087]

As we know, the kneecap ( Patella ) oscillates up and down during the pedalling action. Just when the kneecap starts its down motion, PULL IT DOWN ( straightening the leg ) with the big muscle in your butt, the Gluteus Maximus ( hip extensor ). The quads will help. The calves will be used to firm the ankle. The hams and hip flexors in the other leg will activate to keep your butt on the saddle or from being lifted further from the saddle. The primary thought in you mind must be to pull the knee down, extending the hip. After several months, it will become natural. This technique can be done when riding out of the saddle. It is like climbing a ladder. Using this technique, one can hold the handlebars with a soft grip, simple to steer the bike. Pros take drinks during a climb !!

[@wesdrum1999]

Dylan, thank you so much for bringing up this topic. I have the book Cycling Science by Stephen S. Cheung and Mikel Zabala. Chapter 10 in this book is all about pedal technique. A great read, that chapter alone was worth the price of the book. Have to say in the end he sort of comes up with the same conclusion as you did. Have to say it changed the way I pedal.

[@poochie8208]

Great video, even if it has shattered yet another pre conceived notion. Few years back had a bike fit where the saddle was placed a few cm higher than I was used to, went home with a bunch of stretching and exercising routines as well as a lot of pedal drills. 2 DNF's later I went back to my preferred saddle height, which ended up being around 28 degrees knee angle, and started pedaling as it came out. Only focused on suffering to sustain the effort, while letting the legs do its thing with the pedal and all the rotating bits. Great to see that my laziness at spending hours doing pedaling drills paid off :)

[@mokotramp]

Another great video, Dylan! 👍

[@andrearatkovic4048]

Pedaling technique definitely comes into play when climbing more so then on the flats. Also matters more in wet vs dry conditions and in road/earth conditions. Those studies focused on time trialing on flat, dry, even surfaces.

[@dpstrial]

It would be interesting to see a video on using pedalling-dynamics software to improve your technique.

[@carlosflanders518]

It would be very short

[@Key-bz3vu]

Great video dude, very informative and well structured! 👌👌

[@benanderson4639]

When Climbing technical climbs on trails technique is everything. And having to get off your bike because you can't ride up something will definitely slow you down

[@nickw6175]

I will own up to watching the pros and following their example on this watching Anna van Der breggen her pedal stroke seemed to me a smooth technique which kept shape with increased cadence, so I basically copied her style and found it made a beneficial change over distance.

[@mckayhorsley1733]

Love this channel, thanks for the videos! I alway look forward to seeing anything that you have to say

[@osbogosley]

Find a gradual climb and ride with one foot unclipped. Right foot then left foot. Don't overdo it the first time. You will have sore muscles the next day. Those are the muscles you haven't been using to round out your pedaling. Once those muscles are fit riding is the pack is easy. Your big sprint muscles will be ready when you need them. When I was 50 I was still very competitive in 30+ crits in Austin Tx. In a 5 week series I placed 3rd overall. That was 24 years ago. I was a 5' 8" lightweight climber that had to train for mostly flat races.

[@TimpBizkit]

I think if you're making noob mistakes then you should try and retrain your stroke. Examples are pushing down on the upstroke - get rid of any muscular tension and weighting on the back leg. You want muscles to be making the wheel spin, not dissipating power into other muscles. This is particularly true when getting out of the saddle. Don't be accidentally braking with your back leg.

[@DuncanDrennan]

Two things I'm wondering, 1) What about long term interventions? The research quoted seems to all focus on short term interventions 2) This is probably more bike fit, but what about muscle recruitment and fatigue? i.e. if changes to your bike fit and/or pedalling technique result in better overall muscle recruitment and less fatigue, does that help improve performance? But again, this would need to be a long term intervention, as for any given "preferred" technique any rider will have developed their muscles around that technique. Maybe as an example, let's say a rider was very quad dominant and didn't really engage the glute, hamstrings, calf optimally (for lack of a better term). If they are then given a short term intervention to change their technique/fit/etc. which shifts the way the muscles engage, then the muscles which are now more engaged are not as developed as the muscles which are now less engaged. It seems the only way to really determine if that helps would be to look at a longer term impact which allows some time for the muscles to readjust to their new roles. Or is that kind of thinking all just nonsense? I guess this question is more like, "Can changing the way (or which) muscles are recruited result in a stronger downstroke?" rather than whether that will help you spin circles faster.

[@cokebottles6919]

I feel like pros look smooth because of the power they’re putting into the pedals. Working a heavier load each rotation is going to take out the slop or jerky motions you see with some newer riders struggling at 160 watts.

[@Boyerobert]

Excellent A+ thanks for putting this together

[@daleheaps741]

Great vid again. Interesting about the improved efficiency when instructed to 'pull up'. People should be mindful or not misinterpret this and start riding everywhere doing single leg drills focussing on pulling up. I'm sure I've read in a study or article somewhere that included EMG muscle activation analysis throughout the pedal stroke which stated that the improved efficiency which came from pulling up in the pedalling stroke was due to the fact that by pulling up, the rear foot is placing less resistance (aka is getting out of the way better) against the front foot which is in the power production phase of the stroke, enabling better force production if that makes sense. Basically, it's easier to push down on one end of a lever if there isn't something pushing down on the other/opposite end. Single leg drills don't teach that coordination.

[@dadragonmaster]

Interesting video as always.. Could you do a video comparing mtb and road pedals?

[@DylanJohnsonCycling]

I'll add it to the list.

[@petrikettunen8266]

And flat pedals; as one can use the mid foot position opposed to ball of the foot over the pedal axle like normally on clipless pedals.

[@christianbram1959]

For me even more interesting would be a scientific comparison of Flat vs. Click

[@peglor]

@@christianbram1959 There is data around for that and flat pedals look to be just as efficient as clipless in terms of pedalling efficiency (Which matches perfectly with the findings here that almost all the power of an efficient pedal stroke is on the downstroke). The benefits of clipless, especially off road, is a reduced chance of losing a pedal on a bump or while very tired as well as the ability to hang on to the bike on really rough surfaces and to make the suspension work on lightweight bikes (If the bike is light enough it sometimes ends up rattling between the rider's feet and the ground rather than staying planted and using the suspension). I used clipless for years because that's what everyone else was doing, but swapped to flats probably a decade ago and have no plans to change back - I can ride further and faster than most people on clipless pedals, but that's because I'm fitter, not because flats are magically better. The biggest problem with flat pedals is finding ones with bearings (Or almost universally bushings at the crank side of the pedal axle) that can take actual mileage. Most of them shit their bearings/bushings out in a matter of months or even weeks in some cases when used for actual mileage. Hope's pedals are the only low profile platform style pedal I've used that can survive thousands of miles without any minding. If you can deal with the small platform and higher profile, the DMR V8 greaseport pedal is the most durable option for the money provided you pump them completely full of grease before using them.

[@wazzup105]

I focus on the "pulling technique" for sprints or short uphill sections or that last bit with a headwind before I see a downwind turn coming (to keep cadence and speed high). And sometimes to relieve the flexing (push) muscles a bit during a long ride. Maybe just a mental thing, but it feels nice.

[@oldcrust4741]

Thanks -- great presentation.

[@paintedtabletop]

This was a fascinating video.

[@JasonDBike]

Holy cupcake beast mode flavored hypergain, just the Infos that I needed right now ❤️

[@JibbaJabber]

Apparently, the info on the Tub I got says it's"WADA APPROVED"! However, with the gains I got, I'm not sure if that's true🤔 💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪

[@peglor]

Sounds like an improved version pf powerthirst: kzbin.info/www/bejne/p4PYf6t-ptyUsNU

[@jessetamez7362]

That was extremely informative. The only time I change my pedaling style is when I am starting to get fatigued and I find it gives me a little rest. Then back to my usual.

[@matteokohlloeffel1210]

Thx Dylan, very insightful

[@OlympischbriesjeNadaAverage]

I'm a retired mixed martial artist, so with my age I started to do full distance triathlons since 2017. Last year I accidentally discovered that low cadence increased my speed by almost 4%. Happens during the race, there was a dude hanging around me all the time, switching positions without drafting of course. During the race, I thought that was a good moment to experiment the pedaling styles to see the differences in real life situation. Higher cadence got me dropped, could not keep up, higher heart rate, breathing more heavily. Then I switched to lower cadence higher gear front, than back. Turned out that low blade front, low cadence got me much more speed with quite some ease. You're the expert, does this sound logic to you? This year I will focus training on lower cadence more, that brought me to this upload of yours to learn about power distributions and the do's and don'ts about it.

[@andrepellegrini246]

Amazing channel. Congrats! I've a screen in my garmin "back pedal stroke". It measures how many watts you loose due to the weight left on your back stroke. Those wasted watts increases a lot at the end of a tought ride.

[@thanescott]

I really value Dylan's approach and analysis. I have a problem with what I think is a limitation of these studies. They are snapshot and not longitudinal. Take a guy like me who grew up riding 20" BMX bikes. I only knew how to mash pedals. I'm going to be more efficient, pedaling naturally as a masher, as these studies show. What happens if I train my pedaling technique and modify it, such that my new "natural" pedaling habits are more in line with "turning circles?" A randomized study of novice cyclists with similar training regimens but with an experimental group that adds pedaling technique would be needed to answer this question more fully than the cited studies are able to do.

[@nickhight-huf7518]

Another super solid science-based debunking of myths, thanks. As you say, it all boils having a good bike fit and a comfortable pedal stroke. One related topic, although you can't really improve performance by training to have a different pedal stroke, you can train to minimize coactivation/wasted energy. I would be very interested to hear you dive into neuromuscular training on and off the bike and coactivation.

[@comtruise9779]

Highlight of the video 6:35 - 6:50. Great content as always...so bummed I won't get to see you at the start of Gravel Worlds this year for approximately 34 seconds before the lead group goes out of view.

[@jeffpedals]

Exactly.. just ride your bike however you like..just ride.

[@levbobrov1398]

Thanks for the overview! What about the L/R imbalance though? I feel like I need to actively engage my weaker leg on very steep climbs.

[@rickstokes2239]

I’ve found that cadence is very individual based on age/cardio/strength/style. But practicing both high and low cadence improve overall efficiency and endurance. Also for me, focusing on keeping the legs relaxed and picking the knees up and using the core as a spring so that the feet ‘float’ around the crank, so whether cadence is low or high, the spin is more uniform and ‘more’ power is derived throughout a revolution even if more force is on the downstroke.

[@leeseoWestport]

Another good one DJ!

[@Knud451]

I wonder how much is due to muscle recruitment. I believe that is much more important than "smooth pedalling". Purely anecdotally, I think I've found that I don't engage my hamstring/glutes enough and thereby get a pedal stroke where I'm stamping/jerking with the quads. This has led to a lot of quad and knee pain. As soon as I engage my hamstring/glutes it feels much better and the pain goes away. I just read a study on the muscles involved. Hamstrings are used more than I would have thought, also on the down stroke.

[@ryan8770]

Absolutely love this channel! Pedal Damn It!

[@fastleopard1]

Good video. I agree on bike fit as it relates to pedaling

[@ilanpi]

This video confuses "power", "force" and "torque". You keep referring to "power distribution" during a pedal cycle. In fact, it is "force distribution". Power is the total force = work per pedal cycle multiplied by cadence. The article you cite talks about "force" and "torque", but since the crank length remains constant, these terms are essentially the same in this context. Pedaling efficiency can be described as increasing the work per pedal cycle, so not necessary involving a greater amount of maximal force.

[@Roq-stone]

The Pros look smooth because they are strong riders, so they are pedalling easier, hence the smooth look.

[@alicangul2603]

Surprised that you didn't mention steep MTB climbs where consciously changing pedaling technique is the only way to keep rear wheel grip.

[@EnoelHidalgo]

I mostly ride on flat terrain and when I go to the mountains for a couple of days I find myself dropping my heel when I come back to flat land.

[@benanderson4639]

And sometimes you need to not pedal, get a couple of clicks on your hub and then pedal more so you don't hit your pedal on a rock

[@ΘάνατοςΧορτοφάγος]

Thats a riding skill tho. Not a pedalling efficiency thing.

[@aurboda]

@@ΘάνατοςΧορτοφάγος yeah you're right but they're really interconnected in this one scenario

[@TimpBizkit]

I've found that the electric bike climbs better due to the torque being more even around the clock on the pedal stroke.

[@erikdebeen5838]

Ever thought of the reverse? That by being accustomed by certain movement, the body adapts to be more efficient that way? What I am curious about, is if after training to use another type of pedalling, what training does to the efficiency? So the long term efficiency.

[@PauloBurgio]

Was interested to watch this as I knew it would be woolly. There is no single key to unlock the perfect stroke. The whole game to me is managing muscle burn. Finding your maximum pace and cadence on all gradients across your ride to maximise your time. Whilst this happens you learn how to add short muscle burning segments into your ride and your muscles learn to recover more quickly after those moments of extra excursion. Bike fit / body position and seat hight obviously plays a massive part in your form. My only advice is ride ride and ride some more. Miles on the bike improved fitness and your muscles ability to perform at faster speeds. I find that average speed is the best figure to watch. I have a 30 mile route that has about 3k feet of elevation that I do a lot and because I do it a lot my body is finding new ways to go faster every week. My final opinion as to the key for new found speed is to be in the right gear at all times whilst being just fractions below the mark where muscle burn is starting to set in across your whole ride. Without realising, that mark raises week by week.

[@justinbouchard]

I'm a new cyclist. I bought a used OCR3 last july because I don't own a car. Around mid August I did my first 50k ride. I'm now full on bike dork. One thing I notice immediately about myself is that I for some reason, tense up my legs and am almost/truly, restricting my own pedaling. I'm not sure if this is a mental thing to control cadence or power or both. But one thing I do know is that it will tire me out faster, which it does. The other thing I notice is that when I spend some time focusing on this, generally when I'm deep into a ride, I can let my legs be free of this and let them essentially just "rubber leg" around the rotations. Where I believe what's happening is that I'm letting the tension go and just focusing solely on the down stroke while allowing my opposing down stroking leg to bring up my other one. When I get into a TT position I notice this is HUGE. I'm also quite convinced that once I have trained myself to do this it will be muscle memory that will help me destroy 75% of my long distance rides, 100K+. There's no reason for me to have my legs feel like they need to be ready to sprint or punch constantly. I'd say that maybe 25-35% of me doing a 4 hour effort is having fun and being punchy/sprinty. The rest is just cruising along. K that's my thoughts, now I'm gonna watch your video and see how wrong I am hahhahahah Huge love from Canada :)

[@Richard-sk3vh]

High cadence I'll tend to spin (pull up slightly), but this increases pressure on your arse so it becomes uncomfortable. Also, I'll get lactic acid build-up in all the extensor digit muscles in my shins. e.g., they'll be on fire at the end of a high cadence interval. As I mix muscle groups up, I've noticed my heart rate drops, for the same output as I start to emphasise spinning, but I can't hold it for long as it feel like all the small muscle groups involved aren't designed for, or strong enough for such a powerful movement. So on a steady long climb, start off spinning high cadence, in the saddle, mixing between pulling up and just mashing, then when your arse is on fire, get up n grind for the push over the top.

[@glad2]

I think that the reduced efficiencies seen in the study when looking at emphasising the pulling portion of the pedal stroke could be partially explained because (as cyclists) their pulling muscles are far less trained than the pushing muscles (~97% pushing power Vs ~3% pulling power seen in the test). Training of a muscle (as far as I could see from research) improves the efficiency in that muscle. If they were to train specifically with the pulling technique, for a period of time to acclimatise the muscle to the work load, the results may look different(?) I think longer studies looking at specifically aiming to change pedalling technique, over a period of time, need to be carried out in order to really understand if gains can be made by altering a pedalling style. It is not a surprise to me that a persons preferred pedalling style is the most efficient when looking in the short term.

[@carlosflanders518]

Pulling muscles are tiny compared to the pushing on the downstroke. Not going to get much of a gain.

[@JSBax]

I'm not convinced there would be any change in the result, but you're right the studies cited time and again assessed only the short term impact of changing pedalling technique; it felt like the long term factors weren't given the same consideration (though funnily enough the very first study mentioned did kind of look at that, though was inconclusive). I'd also like to have heard a side note on injury and longevity. I imagine messing with your pedal stroke is like bike fit; performance is one thing, but injury rates might be the real differentiator

[@ryoukokonpaku1575]

@@JSBax It's the same for cadence as well for longer term impact. If your preferred cadence is too low (e.g. 75rpm) then you'll definitely struggle on races since you can't quickly adapt when race pace changes, this is one benefit of high cadence as you can increase your cadence to quickly accelerate and attack/react. Getting higher cadence is something that can be trained on the long term as well, I started at 75-80rpm when I started cycling, now my preferred cadence is around 95-100rpm after high cadence training with likely similar efficiency as my old 80rpm cadence but only after a month or so of adaptation which may not reflect on short term studies.

[@zachc253]

Have you researched cleat position? More forward under the ball of the foot vs more centered under the foot.

[@dp9ihb]

Very informative as usual! Any plans to do a video on seatposts? Like comparing comfort and efficiency of (zero)setback, suspension (passive/active)? Thanks!

[@Clashing0N]

I've noticed recently that during intervals my power fluctuates a lot and it's not a smooth output to get to the desired lap average. For example a 300w interval looks like this 350, 250, 350, 250 instead of 290, 310, 290, 310. The average is the same but I think the irregular power requires a lot more effort. Can this have to do with pedaling technique or should I see it as something different that I need to work on? No idea how I can improve this

[@psulse]

Absolutely, when I am peddling effectively it's like I have no chain and my power is smooth not spikey.

[@gregoryspowell]

love the evidence based approach

[@xescoespar7437]

This is probably the best cycling channel on youtube. Incredible that the algorithm gods didn't bring me here earlier. As a side note, what is then the science behind flat vs clipless pedals? Seems like the watts difference should be negligible and not worth it for most amateur cyclists.

[@DylanJohnsonCycling]

I’ll add it to the list.

[@sonderfall1979]

Exactly what my bike fitter said: Just push like Cancellara and don’t worry too much about technique. According to Newton‘s law it is generally less efficient to pull up because it slows down the “pushing leg”. Pushing forces are much stronger 👍🏼

[@argeelearner3978]

Thanks for shearing!

[@edrcozonoking]

Did any of the studies touch on fatigue? Is there anything to suggest that sharing the load amongst muscle groups by pedaling circles would allow for less fatigue? Also, I find that people that try pedaling “circles” for the first time find if hard because their muscles are not adapted. A proper study would need to use cyclists that are conditioned to pull on the pedals or allow enough time for the subjects to adapt.

[@TimpBizkit]

Having cleats too far forward (or a toe clip that doesn't let me put my foot forward enough) puts too long a lever on the calf muscles, which can cause them to cramp up during a high intensity ride. Also if I only need 200 watts I prefer to pedal at like 70

[@CarlPingPong]

Not that I know anything, this is just how things feel to me: when I am pedaling and the pedal stroke feels smooth, that usually feels good; cadence, there are plenty of different cadences that feel good to me at different points in riding. When the pedal stroke feels smooth, I also notice I feel my thighs/knees going up and down like pistons: yes it feels like there is more force down, I do feel like there could be a small pull back at the bottom and a small push forward at the top but those don't compare to force applied downward; and no, I don't feel like pulling up is useful; it seems like a waste of time but I am bringing the knee/thigh back up with the pedal sort of as if, the reason is to not make the weight of the leg get in the way of the pedal coming back up. And that piston action of the thigh/knee up and down feels good at my hip joint. This is just me observing while riding, not me trying to pedal a certain way. I think, in any athletic endeavor, you can play with mechanics, technique, method, but once you are doing the thing, trying to focus on how you are doing the action will get in the way of you doing that action well. So....observing without trying to control is interesting. And in so many physical or athletic endeavors, overthinking things can make your movement less effective. Maybe sometimes playing with technique is okay. But when you do the thing, you have to let your body do the thing.

[@robertbotta6536]

Awesome. Thank you!

[@davidburgess741]

Don't get a choice with fixed gear! Works really well on the flats. Yes, you will pedal differently at high and low cadence. Sort of like developing a broad power band in automotive terms. Never ideal, but close enough. Maximum mechanical efficiency at all times though. I noticed many years ago that under high loads trying to get on top of a gear, torque gets applied earlier in th downstroke. Light loads get a more gliding even torque application.

[@cliffcox7643]

I have always wondered what the answer was. Turns out, pedaling circles just makes the force more even. When I started biking, I noticed the Cat 1 guys making the swish noise as they were pedaling away from everyone.. That swish was just the tires when they were pushing hard on the down stroke. It' just about powering down.