Interviewing Matt from Matt vs Japan!

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Matt interviews Dōgen: • Talking With Dogen: Ja...
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Dogen / Japanese / Interviewing Matt from MattvsJapan! / Matt / MattvsJapan / How to learn Japanese / AJAAT / Immersion / Language acquisition / How to study Japanese / How I studied Japanese / Japanese Phonetics / Japanese pronunciation / Japanese pitch-accent / study Japanese / 日本語 / 日本語の勉強 / 日本語の発音 / 日本語のアクセント / 発音 / アクセント / 言語学習

[@mattvsjapan]

Thanks so much for having me on!!

[@Dogen]

My pleasure dude! Let’s do it again!

[@dariusga6752]

I like you

[@JezzmanGAMES]

Hi Matt, my thanks to you & Dogen for the video. Quick question: I'm studying Japanese at uni right now. Do you recommend using like a "pronunciation / pitch accent guide" in addition to my Speaking classes? Or like look up individual words on some app? Any suggestions?

[@orhalimi]

Hi matt, I really enjoying hearing you. When I saw your earlier videos I really didn't like the fact that you force "you have to be perfect in japanese". Cus I didn't like to study 3 hours with flashcard everyday, just my own pace. But now when heard you saying "you got the all life to be better" made me feel liek you outgrown from this mind set and made me want to follow you again :-)

[@solidschnake]

Hey matt. Patreon supporter here. Just curious whether you have reached out to your prior host family or kept in touch with them. Seems like a tough chapter in your life and now that you are fluent, perhaps it would help provide some closure to talk with them so they can see your progress and your perspective on your time in Japan.

Next up: Interviewing Japan from MattvsJapan

[@pixilae_man8693]

I'm suprised that there are no replys

[@kitoken368]

@@pixilae_man8693 i wanted to be surprised unfortunately i saw your reply

[@memestopicxd7649]

@@pixilae_man8693 save the surprise for the rest of us

[@chrispysaid]

We need both sides of the story

[@zucc4764]

He has to go to English tho to teach Japan first

[@newlifejapan]

Have you two considered a fusion to become the unstoppable Japanese speaking Dogatt?

[@ADeeSHUPA]

uP

[@fgv3357]

What about Mattogen

[@ningen7736]

Somebody give these guys some ポタラのピアス or teach them how to do フュージョン

[@0011usagi]

A monster gaijin roaming the streets of Tokyo at night correcting native drunk salarymen on their pitch accent

[@rauntche]

The super gaijin

[@keiochris]

A few minutes into this video, I wondered: Does wearing a beanie help one become proficient in Japanese quicker than those with heads exposed to the elements?

[@0011usagi]

You're supposed to remove the hat when exposing yourself to Japanese to improve assimilation, and put it back on when going back into English environment to limit dissipation.

[@dettolsanitizer7839]

@@0011usagi well explained. Gave u a like

[@0011usagi]

@@dettolsanitizer7839 why only 1 you stingy bugger give me more

[@thebokchoy6854]

@@0011usagi I came here to learn about japanese but now I'm definitely adding stingy bugger to my english vocabulary

[@Adhjie]

@@0011usagi that sounds like what megalodon and godzilla worry, their bodies' heat dissipate cuz they forgor to sunbathe

[@niigata6144]

2人とも英語が上手いですね

[@Kuratius]

Dougen just got jouzu'd.

[@ADeeSHUPA]

@@Kuratius hH

[@xCr0nus]

Kuratius umai’d*

[@Mythral]

@@Kuratius no he got umai'd

[@MidosujiSen]

I'm dead lmao

[@h33day]

Every time someone pokes on my English, I tell them it’s a miracle I can even speak a sentence. Every time someone pokes on my Japanese, I also tell them it’s a miracle I can even speak Japanese :^)

[@akarshsharma2870]

Too wholesome lol

[@RockChampEnglish]

People just dun know wt it takes to study a language, if u speak perfectly, they think ur a native speaker

[@clu1878]

Duolingo Owl: Take 5 min to learn Japanese Me : Watching Dogen is basically learning Japanese Duolingo Owl: *Tearfully looks at the 70 missed days of learning*

[@ketchup901]

Meh, Duolingo is not that great. I think just reading some Genki textbooks or something is better. When you're finished you will not know that much.

[@georgaseebalack6003]

@@ketchup901 I find duolingo to do nothing. It's almost a gimmick. It's more like a review of the language you should already be studying for a while I feel. Hence why I stopped. maybe I should go back and see if they improved.

[@ketchup901]

Yeah, it's a gimmick. Fun when you already know the material, but you won't learn any Japanese :p

[@tutumazibuko2510]

How are you still alive?? Is Duolingo Bird still holding your family hostage? Blink Once for Yes, Twice for No

[@yega3k]

Perhaps it’s more of a study preference thing. For me, Duolingo let’s me automate my learning and therefore greatly helps with daily consistency. I don’t have to decide which words to review by myself or plan my lessons from scratch. I just make sure I fix all broken lessons everyday (usually 3 lessons) and also cover 3 new lessons everyday. Takes about an hour for me. The new tips and notes feature helps a lot too. They feel like notes I would write to myself. If I forget something I just go back to the note attached to a topic. I would definitely recommend Duo as a beginner app. I can’t speak for advanced learning as I’m obviously not advanced or even intermediate. Also, Duo cannot handle immersion or input for you. You have to do that yourself. Find content you enjoy in Japanese. I’m not into manga but I love Japanese cinema (drama) and great music from as far back as the 80s! I don’t know enough to read books yet but I will start as soon as I pickup enough kanji to attempt it. Okay, just my 2 cents.

[@moomoo_01]

As a second language learner, I can totally relate to two of them. I'm a native Japanese speaker who has been learning English for years. I was always amazed by their Japanese, especially their pitch accent, and wondered how they achieved that level. I had thought they're just so talented, but this video told me that they're just not that, they have put a lot of effort into it. they also struggled learning Japanese as I did with English. This video has motivated me to keep learning my second language. Thank you so much for that! 本当にありがとうございます。2人の活躍を応援してます！

[@mtn66amassuonoobpawa35]

oh god dammit your english is jozu

[@_imutfntic_]

英語上手

[@aphr0d]

Your English writing is perfect! Keep working hard! It is benefiting you already :D

[@vali69]

Ahh, an opportunity to talk about the manga Blue Period. This manga is the perfect example to show that talent is just a gimmick word. In the manga we get a conversation in the first few chapters that direction illustrates this: the protagonist gets captivated by a painting of a senior student and he tells that she's talented, her response was that calling her talented was an insult to all the hard work she put in into getting good at painting and that saying she's talented is like saying she was born with the ability to be good at painting. Aptitude does exists, but it's not talent, no one is born with skills, we still have to work to build up them, some might be quicker, other slower, but it's still doable. And in that sense, no one is born talented or not at learning a language. Especially because learning a language is also an unconscious process, and so everyone can do it and at the same pace.

[@Oblithian]

My friend from Japan told me writings is easier for most people, it is speaking that is more difficult, largely because of a lack of opportunity to practice.

[@ragnarokangaroo]

That moment when you become so assimilated into Japanese culture that you refer to Americans in America as "foreigners"

[@Choink2558]

@@jimmynageeb3487 who asked?

[@jimmynageeb3487]

@@Choink2558 ؟؟؟

[@melonfox6807]

haha forreal ive only lived in japan for two months and I refer to my own united states citizens as gaijin 🤣

[@ADeeSHUPA]

@@jimmynageeb3487 Are You An عرب

[@essennagerry]

I live in Austria and refer to myself as a foreigner 😅

[@gagj5740]

I'm gonna utilize this video to practice listening to English.

[@Helloworld-wq5uz]

I'm doing it too!

[@gagj5740]

@@Helloworld-wq5uz Let's give it our best

[@Tropical_Panda]

When you want Japanese to be your third language, with English being your second language already, channels like Dogen's and Matt's are twice the blessing 😊😊😊😊

[@jacksonhall3151]

whats your primary language

[@akunekochan]

@@Tropical_Panda me too XD

[@Callisto171]

Matt's eyes are so pretty I'm jelly

[@jimmynageeb3487]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/Zl7aY36rfbCKnc0 subscribe and join my channel for the best English pronunciation courses

[@wanitooo]

it's from all of that language exposure

[@toggs1781]

Hi jelly I’m dad

[@jobansand]

Aren't they a common brown colour? Nothing bad, but nothing spectacular either.

[@_capu]

@@jobansand I think that he talks about the form. Tho his eyes trigger me and I want to slap him because of them (a)

[@manahime]

This video speaks out a lot to me. I spent the past nearly 3 years trying to learn Japanese. The last half year was at my university (Japanese literally made me go back to school) I learned Japanese through online video games. One day I decided to create a character on a Japanese server in Final Fantasy XIV. I made 1 friend, and we tried interacting together. We even used voice chat. I could not understand anything that he was saying, and he could not understand anything that I was saying, but we had a lot of fun (somehow). I literally had to relly on google translate to communicate anything. Fast forward a couple months, and I learned enough Japanese to speak in a broken manner. Being easily distracted and being prone to losing motivation, it is nearly surprising that I didn't give up. I think that making many Japanese friends forces me not to give up. I ended up creating a language exchange community within the game because I thought that if we use our game as a way to meet natives than surely we can improve our chance of being immersed in the language. Everyone I hear that is fluent in Japanese to an advanced manner tell me that they went to study in Japan or that they went for a relatively extended period of time. It makes sense because immersion is what matters right? But not being able to go to Japan yet, I tried to make it so I could emulate immersion using online games and voice chat (Discord anyone? ^^) I don't know if my pronunciation is any good. But I learned a lot of my vocabulary from listening to y friends, so I would hope that it's not completely horrible. I would strongly like to suggest to people who play online game to give a try to going to the servers of the country that speaks the target language and trying to make friends. As for feeling cocky because of your Japanese level. Maybe it's because of my age, but I never felt like it was that good. I mean, I realized fairly quickly that when my friends tell me I'm good at Japanese, or that my Japanese is getting better, they are actually just being nice. Part of me wants to believe them, especially since they helped me so much to learn. But then I remember that I would probably be guilty of dong the same if I was in their shoes. In the end, I would like to thank Dogen-san and Matt vs. Japan for sharing for sharing your experiences and also sharing your love for this language and culture that I love so much. If this text did not make sense, I would like to apologize, I am currently sick. (stupid cold haha)

[@FantasticW7World]

Yes I just recently found someone who wants to learn German (my native language) and we are having a lot of fun playing Minecraft and teaching each other Japanese/German. I'm not really sure whether having English as a common ground is good or bad for language learning though

[@oniichan4930]

U sure its not corona

[@aoeu256]

私は日本語能力試験N2を合格して、スペイン系アメリカ男性。　そのCommunityに追加してください！

[@suspecthalo]

What server is the Japanese learning community you mentioned on?

[@primecreator5257]

Matt, the guy being interviewed in this video, never went to Japan and is one of the best speakers in the US. You can do it!

[@ParadoxiumNector]

When are you going to interview Japan from MattvsJapan?

[@Fatihkilic075]

I don't know why this cracked me up.

[@Okazy]

VERY IMPRESSIVE VIDEO!! I am 29, raised and working in Japan, and I have been studying English for over 15 years. Your video makes me a lot of "power" of continuing to study English even harder. Thank you for such a motivative video!

[@HeroOfTime303]

I hope you are doing well! Has your English improved in the year since you made this original comment?

[@kingkar3997]

Gives me a lot of power* But "Your video gives me the power to continue learning English" sounds a bit more native. Just slight criticism. Self studying Japanese for 6 months. あなたは滑らしです！よろしくお願いします.

[@BagusAchmad]

So age doesn't matter, just keep studying 👌🏻

[@Coicoy]

@Michael Yes! Exactly, that's what the Second Language Acquisition research has suggested re: pronunciation. Adult learners have the advantage of being able to understand concepts at a generally higher cognitive level. Young learners have the advantage of time and pre-adulthood physical and cognitive malleability that can intake and produce pronunciation more easily.

[@hector1404]

I started learning Japanese around at 35 years old, I passed JLPT N5 after 2 years of studying, I know is not much, but after a lot of hours I can understand bits from conversation and read some stuff in Japanese which is great. And of course will always keep improving.

[@Coicoy]

@@hector1404 sweet. I'm 37 and started learning Japanese a little less than a year ago. My goal is to get as fluent as possible. 😄 Your pace sounds faster than mine! But maybe I can get to N2 after two years? I'd probably be happy with N3, as I'm now still in the N4/N5 range.

[@voltmetdrivex3241]

@Michael I'm 16 haha

[@based9930]

It absolutely does.

[@tofu4919]

マットさんが話してる時のドーゲンさんの相槌の回数の多さが日本人みたいで笑える😂

[@nekozid]

Something neither of you brought up when talking about being 'perfect' in a second language... nobody is perfect in their *first* language. People learn new words in the native language constantly, and the language itself moves. There isn't even a finish line in the native language. To expect there to be one in the second is ludicrously naïve.

[@jedjade4002]

I honestly think "native level" or "native fluency" is a fallacy. Not only are you not perfect in your native language, but becoming perfect in your target language means somehow magically internalizing a childhood (all of the casual knowledge gained, the way it shapes people, etc), mannerisms, lifestyle, thoughts and feelings, culture, but also all of the mistakes and issues natives have in a native way, and these are just random things off the top of my head. This is all while being bilingual, not dropping your first and native language, not dropping your native culture or family or friends, etc. I just don't see how it's possible. Even bilingual kids have issues in a language OR BOTH which is crazy. I think getting as close as possible is a very honorable goal, but I think the community needs to figure out new terms and ideas for talking about the topic of "end game" fluency, as you can't become a native, but you can sound extremely fucking good, while not pretending you didn't grow up where you did, or are who you actually are.

[@nomadicmonkey3186]

I believe this myth about being or aspiring to reach "perfect" or "native level" is coupled with another popular belief that language acquisition is linear like a typical skill tree in video games. I suspect there's a lot more to this, as I presume such attitude is a part of the worldview where individual skills can be and should be evaluated with stats, scores, certificates and whatnot. By maxing out these stats you shall one day become a "native level" speaker, not too dissimilar to a highly competitive player.

[@qqqrrr2556]

I think when they refer to native level they are talking about pronunciation and not vocabulary. Natives all have perfect pronunciation regardless of their knowledge of the language.

[@babygorl9541]

@@qqqrrr2556 can't pronounce a word wrong if you don't know the word in the first place amirite

[@SpeC927]

i get what you re saying about no1 being perfect in their native language since you can´t have 100% knowledge of all the words in your native language but, a person born in the USA with an above average education and some "thirst" for knowledge, i think will know how to pronounce every single word he knows correctly, so maybe that is what a fluent person should be considered maybe.

[@masusu9683]

Even though my native language is Norwegian, I didn't know that it had pitch accent before I started studying Japanese. It really was an eye opener and has helped me realize how important it is to study pitch accent since I can now easily envision how bad my Japanese sounds to native speakers by imagining someone speaking Norwegian with the wrong pitch :D

[@therealrandom33]

As a Norwegian do you feel like you have an easier time hearing the pitch accent?

[@HopefullyHopeful]

Same here! I'm also Norwegian and am learning Japanese XD really gives some perspective :p I've also noticed knowing Norwegian helps my Japanese accent, because a lot of the vowels are very similar :)

[@0urMutualFriend]

Lol man I used to learn Norwegian like 7 years ago and I remember my book had tips on how me, a foreigner, could put on a pitch accent when speaking the language lol I didn't even know it was a thing in the first place! I think I remember it saying something like "your pitch in Norwegian goes up and down except for with words that end in -el, -en and -er and words with only one syllable" or something similar

[@lisenpedersen]

Har bergensere pitch accent?

[@Jensenrobinb]

Kan du forstå det her?

[@KENTOSI]

Boy this MattvsJapan guy's Japanese story rhymes with mine on so many levels: doing flashcards on weekends to the point where you ruin your own holidays, spending so long and realising you don't enjoy it anymore but you've come so far, doing passive learning a LOT and having no output (speaking) practice whatsoever, and ultimately reaching a point where you're happy with how fluent you are and have stopped "learning" and just entering maintenance mode. Thanks for sharing.

[@KENTOSI]

Not to mention swallowing the AJATT coolaid and getting drowned :-)

[@jimmynageeb3487]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/Zl7aY36rfbCKnc0 subscribe and join my channel for the best English pronunciation courses

[@RadicalGaming1000]

I didn't even realize this was 40 minutes. I was genuinely hooked

[@default632]

Oh shit. Almost commit 40 minutes by accident, will do it when I have time

[@key0515baseball]

日本語うまい人の英語聞き取りやすいです！

[@MaraStaaru]

You know, I'm so used to listening to his Japanese, the second he spoke English, I almost had a heart attack. I had no idea what was going on.

[@HimonoOnna90]

Don't play yourself down! It's like you said, after some point it's just "directions". You're both extremely good and where Matt might be more fluent, you are more eloquent. And it's normal for eloquent people to sometimes stop and look for words in any language, even their native one. ^^ It's such a joy to watch your videos!

[@Islaras]

Seconded, this is what I thought as well. I'd love to be as eloquent in English as Dogen is in Japanese.

[@isaac10231]

I did vr chat in Japanese just for fun today and you know how you have the setting in the control panel where you can hear your microphone's input back at you? I turned that on cause I was having issues with my microphone - when I turned it on and heard my own Japanese voice, a part of me died inside, it was wild how different I sounded.

[@justin02905]

recording yourself is such a redpill

[@kee_do]

I know right?! Like damn. But to be honest, knowing how your voice sounds like helps in regulating your voice through microphone or online.

[@babygorl9541]

part of my japanese accent practice was just me shadowing a native speaker, recording myself, listening, and comparing. best to start doing it early so you don't get shocked later and can start improving faster.

[@CoconutJewce]

When I was taking Japanese in college, there would be some scripts/readings that we had to record ourselves speaking and then send that audio to the teachers for criticism. Hearing my own Japanese was so incredibly cringey. lol

[@YSFmemories]

if you listened to your english, you'd probably feel the same way. Don't worry, others probably don't hat eyour voice as much. It's mostly because your "real" voice feels like its in the uncanny valley because you listened to your own voice without hearing how it really sounds like for so long.

[@Yotanido]

About the whole pitch accent thing: I really wonder why pitch accent is never really talked about. I see it mentioned on KZbin a bit more often now, but textbooks and text resources seem to ignore it completely. Even when I took a Japanese class, the teacher only mentioned it once and I just assumed it only applied to the two words mentioned. It was only when I saw it mentioned that pitch accent is the difference between 日本 and 二本 that I really understood. I pronounced those correctly, but didn't actually realise I was saying them differently. My pitch accents are still all over the place and I can barely hear something wrong when Dogen says something deliberately incorrectly, but at least I am aware of it now and can pay attention to it.

[@mavsworld1733]

Native speakers learn it naturally so don't really know it, like native English speakers and stress. Non-native teachers never learn it, and in fact learn not to hear it, so don't teach it.

[@mavsworld1733]

@Michael As someone living in Japan I'd say it's pretty neccessary. Japanese people are really bad at understanding non-natives.

[@lctechnologies9393]

@@mavsworld1733 I live in Japan too man and in my opinion trying to understand complex terms about the Japanese language like pitch accents is too mendoukusai. Just listen and copy how Japanese people talk. I work at a Lawson's right now and I'm not even fluent but I'm getting better by listening to how my customers and co-workers talk. I've never heard of pitch accents in Japanese until I came across this KZbin channel and although it is an interesting subject, I have to wonder what's the point of taking time to learn about it, what will it benefit me?

[@mavsworld1733]

@@lctechnologies9393 if you are copying the people around you then you are learning pitch accents, because all Japanese people talk with pitch accents. If you study by learning written words and trying to reproduce the written words you won't learn pitch accent, because writing doesn't have pitch accent. Both Dogen and Matt started learning Japanese the traditional way, which teaches you to basically ignore pitch accent and pronounce everything the same pitch accent wise. I've never studied pitch accent, but I can hear all the pitch accents on Dogens tests, because I just listened to loads of Japanese and tried to perfectly replicate what I heard. However, I have lots of bad pitch accent, because I started off like them learning words with no pitch accent. Getting pitch accent correct made a massive difference to me with how much Japanese people understood me when I talked to them.

[@lctechnologies9393]

@@mavsworld1733 That's what I'm saying. If you just listen to how native Japanese people speak and copy their pronounciation then you don't have to study pitch accents. I get what you're saying though.

[@404md]

Very interesting video. I’m 38 and have been learning Japanese for nearly 3 yrs now. First, learning a new language (Japanese or otherwise) is extremely humbling. It doesn’t matter how much you study or how good your pronunciation is, you will never sound like a native speaker. Language learning is a journey you never really complete. Secondly, I agree - adults can learn a new language. These two guys started learning Japanese as teens and at a time they were they were highly interested in Japanese culture and media (anime, manga etc). That is a great motivator for learning! They had time (and clearly money/advantage/resources) to take classes and study abroad. As an adult, when you have a job, bills, a mortgage, family responsibilities, you have to learn at your own pace and can’t spend copious hours a day studying grammar, watching Japanese tv or study abroad (like a teenager could). You have to be realistic. I personally focus more on grammar and conversation and thankfully have a lot of Japanese friends I can communicate with. My husband studies mostly kanji. He knows over 2,500+ now because of Wanikani. We are both getting out of it what we can put in, and we are happy with our progress. Am I close to fluent? No! But I can text friends completely in a Japanese and we learn new Vocab everyday so that’s a mini milestone. Third, some people simply just have a better aptitude for language. That’s a fact. That doesn’t make others dumb or poor students. It’s just simply how we are. With that said, no one should compare themselves to others. Everyone learns at their own pace, based on their own circumstances and resources. Just enjoy the ride. I really liked hearing about these two guys journeys to learning Japanese.

[@Maidaseu]

"You will never sound like a native speaker" So what about the millions of people who attain native level languages in their target language? Yes, it's like 1% of fluent speakers that will get to this level. They are the people like Matt who spends thousands upon thousands of hours while mastering all aspects of pronunciation, cultural knowledge, massive vocabs etc. You might not put in the effort and get the result, but don't call it an impossible task. I'm never going to climb Everest, though you'll never hear me claim that it's an impossible task.

[@fatalshot0093]

I studied abroad in Japan for a year in Nagoya. I knew that I wasn't gonna be perfect after only one year abroad (I was a beginner at the time). My goal during my year there was to learn enough where I can hold a basic conversation without needing the dictionary all the time. I believe I've achieved that goal. Hoping to continue to work hard and improve more and more.

[@Liza_vv]

You'd actually be amazed how people can learn accents. My father had really poor English until he moved to Ireland in his twenties. Now he has an incredibly strong Irish accent you would never think he's Dutch. It's quite interesting because I know other Dutch people who have lived in ireland for 20+ years but they still have really strong Dutch accents. So I guess don't be discouraged !

[@PhillipBrule]

Yea i agree, i meet people all the time whose second language is English but i thought they were native English speakers. Id even say, as a native english speaker, the majority of the non native English speakers ive met, sound native to me.

[@Ryosuke1208]

Did your father consciously tried to improve himself?

[@Liza_vv]

@@Ryosuke1208 I don't think so! He says it's down to having a "musical ear", ie being able to hear pitch and tone properly. Not sure if there's any truth in that though !!

[@user-mq2il4ze2u]

For me as Japanese and as a English learner, this is a really interesting video Even tho I've been learning spoken English for 2 years, I'm still lost sometimes when it comes to listen to conversation of native speakers like these guys's conversation lol But I realized again that learning new language takes long and you have to step up little by little

[@user-ti3rs6pu4p]

only 2 years??

[@eemki]

Just want to compliment you that despite those 2 years in learning english, it is still good. I mainly use english when conversing to foreigners and use it for code switching between my native language and foreign as there are some words that we can't translate it to our native tongue (my native tongue is a Filipino and English is just either second or for academics and international conversations only) I am also learning japanese by watching anime and listening to a lot of speakers.

[@mimiiiing]

Dogen throwing in those 相槌 in an English conversation. Not full on 相槌 but hearing those 「うん」、「uh-hm」、「right」、etc. while Matt is talking definitely shows Japanese habits. 😂

[@grimmjowjeaguerjaquez5065]

My two favorite japanese youtubers in one video 夢みたい

[@ADeeSHUPA]

ユメミタイ

[@tonyzhu1687]

I guess I would say that I'm bilingual in Chinese and English, going to school with both languages and living in both, which I've found to be quite rare among my peers. But even though I moved to China as a child, I still have grammatical issues as well as "weird choice of words" which although doesn't discount myself being a native speaker, is often a source of laughter among my Chinese friends who learned only Chinese as a first language. Much of this I believe is because I have always used English as my language for academics while going to international schools. This is why even with immersion and fluency, I think at some point the difference becomes rooted in cultural, societal, and academic differences. Thanks to both Dogen and Matt for being a continued source of inspiration to keep chasing perfection, even if it is unobtainable and much harder for non-native speakers.

[@kishpawar]

I can relate to this so much given how I've done all my academics in English too.

[@YSFmemories]

really? I grew up in Canada and only went to school in China for 1 year (grade 4) and I can honestly say that my Chinese is completely perfect in terms of pronunciation and word choice. The only thing is I don't know all of the new web slang people use, and also I don't know complex grammar like 文言文 or stuff like 成语. But day to day Chinese, no one can tell I grew up Canada at all. In fact my pronunciation is better than like 90% of Chinese people, considering most people (and virtually 100% of people over 50) have a heavy regional accent.

[@watchmesquatch]

@@YSFmemories Lol. Cocky asf.

[@YSFmemories]

@@watchmesquatch Are you chinese? It's not cocky, it's just the reality, because I was born in a region that doesn't have its own heavy regional accent, because it's a 30 minute train ride away from Beijing. Most other regions have regional accents, and kids learn their own accent before standard Chinese; especially the older generations, where they didn't learn standard mandarin until they were adults, so they usually all have heavy accents. The vast majority of Chinese people have some regional accent. Also, plain vernacular Chinese has some of the easiest grammar in the world. It's not like I'm special; my cousins, who went to France at a younger age than I came to Canada are better than me at Chinese. And most of our family friends here in Canada are Chinese-Canadians, their children came to Canada around the same time as I did, most of them can still speak Chinese perfectly, though some prefer not to and some, like myself, can't really read/write. Chinese is just a really easy language. Simple and concise.

[@lucminax]

Yes! I'm so happy to see this collab, I was waiting for this

[@kaibabaku]

This session really motivated me to strive to get better English.I’m so impressed with the fact that both of you are not only good at Japanese but also aim higher. I’m struggling to study English everyday but through this video,l realized I also have a native language and can have some “final points” in my mindset. It was really interesting and intriguing.

[@0urMutualFriend]

Same with me but in Spanish and Russian

[@KenKaneki-mk3py]

amazing discussion!!! thank you to both of you!!

[@queenkoi]

Good conversation! Thank you for sharing.

[@Ryan-jw5xw]

Just wanted to say I really like these kinds of videos and I don't mind the incredibly long video length!! Hope to watch more of these, thanks!

[@KenKaneki-mk3py]

that was just soooo interesting!! thank you so much!!

[@justjoshininjapan700]

Great video and amazing advice/insight. Thanks much for your contributions to everyone’s language learning endeavors!

[@orcasrising]

i've been waiting for this collab my entire life.

[@meganvanzyl1318]

It was so interesting to listen to you both discuss linguistics in such depth, thank you for sharing this.

[@AntonioRadici]

Great video! Thanks for doing this interview, I definitely enjoyed, in particular when you both shared your learning paths

[@Codyyyyyyyyyy]

That was a great discussion. You guys seemed to connect and communicate really well. I learned a lot from this.

[@Shademarc]

Watched the whole video and could go on for the whole day. Seeing my 2 favorite Japanese speaking channels discussing about language is so interesting. Would 100% watch ep2!

[@scottend5239]

Those 40 mins flew by. Thanks for the interview and introduction to MattvsJapan. Gonna check out the other interview now.

[@internetboy774]

i just watched both of your videos back to back, and wow, i could listen to you guys discuss your experiences with japanese for hours. i’m a podcast lover and these long-form conversations really captured my attention. it’s also really interesting to hear the perspective of fellow bilinguals; granted, i studied abroad and now speak spanish, but i still find myself relating to and learning from everything you guys said. hope to see more collabs from you two in the future!

[@FunkieFelix]

You both are flawless and it's not a competition. Glad to see this !

[@Thymint]

Watched this in one sitting. So fun and enlightening!

[@StephenJamesGoodWill]

This conversation is so good! It's like a close friend of mine and myself dishing it all out on a mutually well-understood topic. Kudos. I would definitely listen to a podcast where y'all periodically touched on "topics in learning Japanese" or something similar.

[@christotaku]

we wanna see more collabs with Matt!! nice one you guys!

[@delciagarcia8287]

Thank you for this interview. Remarkable skills. Congratulations to both!

[@dxnxz53]

finally!!!!

[@eigonodo]

Cool！

[@tokyokacie]

I really enjoyed this! As a long time student of Japanese, I am new to the idea of pitch-accent, and I am excited to learn more about it and how it can make my Japanese better. You guys both have a calming presence and very soothing voices, keep up the great work and content!

[@AprikosenKlang]

It is always motivating to hear, that both of you had also troubles learning Japanese. Thanks for sharing all of these insights 😊

[@u.kw1461]

Always helpful stuff here

[@babysophie102]

I really enjoyed this video. Language learning has been a big interest but not many people would engage in thought provoking discussions about it with me. Just want to say thank you and keep up the great work guys!

[@norifumiirie3675]

So insightful!

[@LetsPronounce]

This is a fantastic video. Thank you very much

[@pitrs101]

I am living in Japan and studying by myself but I don’t need to be perfect. I just want to be able hold conversation about interesting stuff and be able to do my job. That’s it 🙂

[@haha-eg8fj]

Me too. But looks like you have a Japanese partner, who can give you more opportunities to practice Japanese.

[@MMM-gz9hi]

Great video guys!!

[@yummy4155]

英語の勉強としてだけじゃなくて本当に面白い内容で、子供と一緒に古い物から毎日見ています。素敵なビデオばかりです！

[@Cypekeh]

It was a really comfy conversation

[@yuvcharmer]

I hope that you’re doing well. Thank you for what you do. Looking forward to joining your patreon soon. Maybe when I return to work after my self isolation.

[@drauc]

I seriously hope you guys become best friends because these videos are great, and you guys are my favorite language-related KZbinrs.

[@jaytriestoplay3647]

Pitch accent comes a little easier for musicians who've been taught sight reading ( sheet music ) but we just need to know which words have which pattern, the pitches change the same way a half step up or down works for us!!! They're just out here singing words all day, no wonder I love the language so much

[@xxx1x47x41x3]

This was a fascinating listen

[@hortamaroto]

What a nice video... It's really motivational

[@jaypong1015]

watched both videos in full 👌🏾

[@jonahnieuwenhuizen9492]

This is really fun to watch, I’m about 10 minutes in and recognise a lot of what Matt is talking about. When I was a senior in high school I had absolutely no idea what I wanted to study after graduating. So I found an exchange program which facilitates gap years abroad, living in host families and going to high school. At first I really wanted to go to Scandinavia, but because this is pretty close to my home country (the Netherlands) language and culture wise I wasn’t 100% sure. That’s when one of the advisors ask me if I wanted to go to Japan, because they had a spot there. I knew pretty much nothing about japan, I think howls moving castle in English is as close as I got, but it seemed like a great adventure. So a few months later, now having watched naruto in Japanese and pretty much nothing else, I was off to Japan. The school was great, well it pretty much resembled a parking garage and was hot af when I first went there late summer, but my classmates where awesome. They where in the English course which ment that we could communicate on a basic level. I spend the year taking classes, learning Japanese and playing basketball all the while living in a Japanese host family. About 4 months in I had pretty much gotten used to living in japan, but I was feeling really bored. My friend where spending their days at school, having club activity until 7 pm, while I was sitting at home because I had injured myself playing basketball. I was starting to feel sorry for myself, my Japanese wasn’t progressing fast enough in my eyes (it had only been 3 months) and I couldn’t connect with my classmates, because our conversations where limited to “good morning, how are you?” “Good what about you?”. I didn’t really want to be here, I should have gone to Scandinavia. Luckily I hung in there and in the end really started to love Japan, the people, the landscape, the language. I’ll be starting Japanese studies at university this August and couldn’t be more excited! Btw I’m writing this from Japan as I’m visiting my host families right now :).

[@ADeeSHUPA]

NiCe

[@johnathanmoody1447]

"The council will decide your fate" -the council. Watch out dogen!!

[@webob6997]

In my experience, even native speakers of a language have varying levels of proficiency. I am a born-and-raised-only-English speaker who has an undergrad in English and a master's degree. I have a long-standing interest in language and linguistics and a fairly vast vocabulary. Yet, I still make mistakes with pronunciation and word usage in English - even for words I know well sometimes. I believe that no one TRULY is "perfect" or even completely fluent in any language, including their native language. It is, like so much else in life, a continuing process that makes life and the acquiring of further knowledge so much fun! (I am in the - extremely slow - process of learning Korean and found both your channel and Matt's through my interest in learning how to better train my brain and psyche to acquire another language. Thanks for your insights!)

[@ReReChan]

I once watched Steve Kauffman video and he said, I don’t mind not sounding like a native. I’m not, and that’s just fine. It makes me feel so much at ease. I’m currently learning Chinese and striving to just make my mouth familiar in speaking Chinese.

[@JayAreAitch]

Different goals obviously have different processes. MIA is not for people who just want to be functional.

[@ReReChan]

@@JayAreAitch yes, of course

[@ReReChan]

@s__n_Ghs_w_J_g_r_v_ LOL! That's an interesting point of view. No worries. My point is, as a language learner, I don't focus on the accent but I just naturally pick up the accent as I learn and listen to the language. Sometimes I would hear an American speaking Chinese in American accent and find it amusing. I wouldn't say that it's unpleasant to hear and that I don't want to ever hear it again.

[@Brianfilms]

This is great thank you

[@mikecronan2464]

I found your conversation applicable in acquiring any new language. I'm studying Korean and I know the same issues exist with my learning as well. I lived in Korea for 18 month stretches twice while in the military and found being immersed to be the most helpful, both with pronunciation and with native patterns of the language. It's been over 30 years since being there last and I still get compliments on the little I DO speak to Koreans, but putting a sentence together, let alone a 10 minute conversation, will take more and more self-imposed immersion. Though difficult from out-of-country, the internet will be very helpful in my never ending quest for "fluency". Thank you for the video!!

[@silverthorn3791]

Thanks this has been very helpful, I'm about to go and watch the other interview, wanted to leave a comment on here before that... I've only been learning Japanese for three weeks and I've learned a few phrases only using phonetics and I've had a few Korean's on VR chat thinking I was a local or at least they have said my pronunciation was very good afterwards. I've found it very difficult to have a conversation which I guess is to be expected. My real goal is just to be able to have a conversation with Japanese speakers and listening to the struggles and break-throughs you guys have had has helped me in this early stage of my development. Thankyou.

[@caetanosouzasantos9072]

This conversation is fantastic! 40 minutes were passed in a blink lol .. i could actually keep listening to these two talking about Japanese language forever

[@mebeasensei]

Thanks D! Inspiring.

[@rdms1706]

2人とも素晴らしいです👏

[@Supersonic]

at around 30 min you guys are talking about how you cant perceive the mistakes or language skills of someone that is a higher level than you, and that sounds really similar to the theory of dimensional creatures. Where a 2 dimensional creature (like a shadow) cant perceive any one or anything in the 3rd dimension. nor can we the 4th. (super unrelated i know, but i enjoyed this video and how it made me reflect on my Japanese)

[@becurious17]

@socially unacceptable YESSS. I'm a musician. I grew up playing the violin, then I picked up guitar and began singing and songwriting. I definitely suffer from being self-conscious when sharing my music. My loved ones (who are not musicians) all say, "OMG! You're so talented! You sound amazing, you should really share your music with the world etc" And I'm like... you know nothing. I'm shit and I know it. It sucks, cause no matter how much I improve I know that the "real musicians" will be able to tell how crap I am. *Sigh* luckily I don't feel this way about learning Japanese. I'm fine with not being perfect at a second language. I will still strive to do my best and I'm happy with that.

[@aoeu256]

Its called Dunning-Krueger (they didn't invent it, but they studied it a lot), and its biggest in Americans.

[@caesium563]

There's actually a great proverb they use to describe this situation: 猫に小判 it seems even if you give a cat a gold coin, the cat wouldn't understand its value

[@Islaras]

I have this one Indian friend who, on an audio call, made a remark that I didn't sound as American (I'm not one) as I sounded to him last year when he was less good at English. He said he could actually notice my foreign accent now. I thanked him for honestly sharing his observation.

[@sanjuan240]

The fact that they know about “initial d” made me like them even more.

[@ameonna8810]

Really interesting vid and inspiring...!!

[@j.walker6845]

Thanks for the tips

[@Vampyrisk]

This was so interesting! I’m a linguist and Japanese learner, I feel you so much lol

[@Catherine-vn8ob]

First, thanks for a great video! I would love to see a similar interview between you and Atsu (from Atsueigo) as he has a similar focus, but as a Japanese person learning English to as 'native' a level as possible. I think it could be really interesting to compare the approaches taken to the different languages.

[@ileana2901]

What an amazing collaboration

[@user-xm6ro1ep5d]

Thank you for the video Dogen, you can get a lot of perspectives from Matts Japanese background in this interview. He definitely did acknowledge his mistakes while being in Japan, and that's something that can be learned from. Sometimes the individual is so focus on their goal that they don't see the opportunities to reach such.

[@TheDuncskunk]

Thanks for sharing. I have heard you(Dogen) talk about 'pitch accent' before but I hadn't really payed much mind at the time. It is something I will look into. I don't output any Japanese(aside from singing in the car) but I have been watching and listening to a lot of native content over the last 8 or 9 months. Recently I have been watching peeps outputting in VR and watched as others try to guess their origins. It has helped me to see a lot of where I've grown when I can hear where the person I am listening to sounds off.

[@cyanicbanana]

As a native english and mandarin speaker, I could tell the difference between the words pretty easily, without knowing what pitch accent was. I had a friend in class that read things really weirdly, I knew he was saying it wrongly, but I didn't know at the time it was called pitch accent :sweat: I guess being fluent in another tone based language helps you spot the differences when you speak.

[@linobigatti]

It happens a little bit to me too as a native spanish speaker, I can sometimes pick up how the pitch feels "weird"

[@NukeMarine]

Man, to think that was one long set-up for the punchline at the end. Worth it.

[@lolozo214]

17:30 Watching you talk about Japan and Japanese stuff is so cute, you're smiling so much

[@LamplighterScott]

Awesome accomplishments!

[@vincentFGC]

I like how the timestamp on thumbnail makes it so it says "Most Effective Study Meth", thank you Dogen!

[@rachelpi.1271]

Thanks Matt! I'm just 7 min in and I love the thought we can learn a child does lang! 👏👏

[@iaincallaghan8372]

You guys should do this regularly

[@santoshesantos7766]

Amazing bro amazing lovley both of u . Thx for sharing that, omedeto gozaimasu , arigato gozaimasu

[@mimisvlog5249]

Dogenさんの日本語は大変素晴らしいけどネイティブでないのはすぐ分かる。マットさんの日本語は日本で生まれ育ったといっても通じるレベル。 I'm Japanese. In case anyone wonders about who's Japanese is better. Dogen's Japanese is excellent but I can tell that he is not a Japanese native speaker but Matt, I wouldn't doubt if he says that he was born and raised in Japan.

[@fearalice]

I don't know who is better, but after watching a bit of both of them i think i can safely say both of their English is great.

[@mercurydrive9720]

a good example of your theory is how my Japanese pronunciation is at like a 2/10 so I didn't notice anything wrong in the self-directed Japanese expert video

[@kylejohnson6061]

You guys should do a podcast!!!