Dolby Atmos in Cubase 12 Follow Up Q&A

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Getting started with Dolby Atmos in Cubase Pro 12: • Getting started with D...
Monitoring Dolby Atmos with Waves NX in Nuendo 11: • Monitoring Dolby Atmos...

[@QFXmusic]

Great content yet again

[@michaelgwagner]

Thanks!

[@mimidhof2179]

Great content. Thank you for making it available to us.👍

[@michaelgwagner]

You’re very welcome. :)

[@wulfgangaudio]

you rock! Thanks for your great Videos!

[@michaelgwagner]

Thanks! 😊

[@thaexception3406]

Informative. A similar thing happens with Townsend Labs microphone software regarding the meters disappearing.

[@jackyviafadelp3603]

Please more about Dolby Athmos mixing

[@TheTripboxer]

Hi, thanx again for a great Video :-) I just wanted to say that, in my experience, using Waves NX Ambisonics works in the Control Room as well. With a small workaround, but it works for me... I have to create a quad monitor in the CR for this. But only connect the first two channels to the headphones. In the ControlRoom window, I deactivate "head tracking" in "Channels" and select "1st Order Ambisonics" in the downmix preset section. Then I load the Waves NX Ambisonics>Stereo plug-in into the insert slot for the quad monitor... Lg aus Wien

[@michaelgwagner]

Thanks!

[@simonscardanelli4532]

Really helpful video Michael. Are you familiar with exporting a DCP from Resolve? I'm creating a video project for showing in small cinemas and I believe that Resolve can export the DCP with Atmos soundtrack created in C12 for example. I'm still at the music production part of the project so not tried marrying it to video yet. The only sync sound for the video is a narrator. The rest of the audio content is music, to video text and imagery. I'm hoping I got this right and can deliver a DCP without having to go to a Post house!

[@michaelgwagner]

Thanks for the tip. My info came from a Blackmagic support forum response. It is very well possible that new formats have been added since.

[@simonscardanelli]

@@michaelgwagner I was rather hoping for some tips from you! I'll keep you posted when I compile and export in a few weeks.

[@michaelgwagner]

Video is not my specialty, I’m afraid. I can edit my own videos but that is about where it ends. Lol.

[@timothywilliam7683]

I’m having some issues with routing in general, as my usual flow is Audio Tracks (Stems) -> Group (Strings) -> 2BUS -> Main Out. When I add the renderer then I lose meters and my plugins don’t affect the signal flow on my first group (Strings). I usually insert plugins on all busses as part of my workflow (individual tracks, the track groups, and the 2 Bus). What is the best way to handle this as I can only get the plugins to receive signal on the 2BUS OR the Strings group - not both.

[@michaelgwagner]

If you route tracks into objects in the renderer, that audio is diverted before it reaches the meters. You can change the meters to “pre-panner” which will bring them back. Depending on you previous workflow it is possible that you need to rethink your routing setup.

[@timothywilliam7683]

@@michaelgwagnerThanks Michael, see you in the Discord!!

[@amirharony3859]

is there a way to upload the cubase atmos renderer export to youtube as binaural audio?

[@florianangerer5121]

Regarding 7.1.4 beds: the way this is usually done is with a 7.1 bed + 4 objects for the heights. If your DAW allows it, you can just configure a 7.1.4 bus, that you treat, as if it were your bed, and then send the first 8 channels to a 7.1 bed, and the last 4 as objects to the ceiling. This sort of thing is quite common actually, especially in more "traditional" mixing scenarios, as you can more easily deal with multichannel reverbs, compression, or even HOA assets mixed to a channel based layout (decoders tend to prefer 5.1.4 or 7.1.4 over 7.1.2).

[@svenisaksson3970]

"sending the last 4 as objects to the ceiling". Are you referring to treating the hight channels as objects?

[@florianangerer5121]

​@@svenisaksson3970 Yes. So in this scenario you have 4 objects that you pan to the height speakers (you can even lock them to the closest speaker), that you then basically treat as if they were channels. That way you can mix using a channel-based paradigm, which, depending on your workflow, might be preferable to having to deal with a large number of individual objects on the ceiling. You can even push this concept a bit further, and introduce objects for specific speakers, or regions of the mix, to which you can then discretely route whatever you want. As an example, you might have a stereo track in your mix, that you then turn in to an objecct (two objects really), which you pan to the positions of the front wide speakers in a 9.1.6 layout. You can then send anything you want to come from that position to that stereo track.

[@michaelgwagner]

Yes, thanks, I know there are workarounds. But it feels a bit clunky to do it that way tbh.

[@florianangerer5121]

​@@michaelgwagner Yes, I'm with you on that. I just wanted to state, that this is something I know a lot of people do. Like you I feel that it's clunky and unintuitive, but, to be honest, this is the way I feel about Atmos in general. At least for music, where I strive to create, above all, a coherent sound field, this whole idea of splitting everything into beds and objects, and then having to come up with some way of putting it all together in a way that doesnt sound like a bunch of separate, unconnected things, requires more mental gymnastics on my part than I am actually comfortable with.

[@r.kimshultz]

I have no LFE output. How can I test the LFE channel? Thanks!

[@michaelgwagner]

Interesting question. Not sure if you can actually do that without an LFE output. You could mix the LFE channel back into the other channels but that would not be very accurate either.

[@TheRealATema]

Hi.. How do i convert to spotify and apple muisc format from the Broadcast wave format? You mentioned tools in your previous video but couldn't find a link. Thank you

[@michaelgwagner]

I honestly have not yet looked into what Spotify and Apple Music require but I would assume it is one of the Atmos master file formats. You can convert between them with the Dolby Atmos Conversion Tool. If you google for that it shoild take you to the download site at Dolby Developer.

[@samson418]

Is there a tool to create a path for the Audio Objekts with formulas like it's done for Objekts in an Adobe after Effekts scene? Not like Sound particles with a pointing device, but with a formula for x,y,z radius angle, sinus, cosinus? Could this be done using game audio and unity or wwise or so? It would be nice to be able to use it like a vsti that creates object path. pointing devices do not create exact circles, Ellipse, lines. They tend to wobble on their path.

[@michaelgwagner]

You can do that with Wwise and Unity. I don’t think there is a possibility to script automation in Nuendo or DaVinci. Technically, it should be possible to write a VST plugin for that, but I have not seen that done yet.

[@Artinmotionmusic]

why when I create the object my bed channels disappear. strangely im also having problems exporting even tho I followed all steps.

[@maartenligtenberg8051]

Hi, thanks for the videos. I’m trying to have a look at the Cubase 12 Atmos facilities but ran into something I do not understand. Initially I’m routing all my audio channels to the bed group channel as advised. This way all these channels also get the correct panner. However if I then change one of the tracks to be an object (in the ADM authoring dialog), the track remains routed to the bed group channel. So that track may be an object in Atmos (as I see in the ADM dialog), but it is also still part of the bed. Is that how it is intended to be setup? I would think the track should not be routed to the bed anymore but be totally independent. What am I missing ? :)

[@michaelgwagner]

The track will still be routed to the bed, however there is no audio passing through. The Atmos panner will redirect all audio to the renderer. This is why you do not see any movement on the track meter if you keep meters in post-panner mode.

[@timedogthehorse]

@@michaelgwagner I was also confused by this, thanks for clearing it up. I'm having one last very annoying hurdle here in my setup... I've followed your method and also tried using the Cubase Setup method and have a very simple issue that I just can't get my head around... I have 3 - 4 stereo tracks, route them all to the bed copying along with your video exactly. I then want 3 of them Objects. Go to the ADM add the 3 objects, their routing looks normal (Same as yours) and I can see them in the Renderer, all looking good. Every time I export using the ADM, I can only ever hear the bed track in the mix down? No objects come through at all :( Under my audio outputs, it's the same as yours, the 7.1.4 renderer out (not connected) - I'm monitoring in Control Room using a headphone output. Would love to know what's wrong here! Many thanks

[@michaelgwagner]

If you play the exported ADM file back on a regular audio player you will just hear the bed because that is all the player sees. You need to either play it on a player that can handle ADM masterfiles (rare) or convert it to mp4 (I did a video about that using AWS to convert the file).

[@timedogthehorse]

@@michaelgwagner Aha! Of course! That makes sense :) Thank you again, most helpful

[@shanjaykris8979]

Windows or Mac which is better for give performance in Pro tools and nuendo for mixing and mastering .in windows we can learn Dolby Atmos mixing using nuendo ,with binaural rendering . Nuendo or Pro tools which is best could anyone reply.

[@michaelgwagner]

I have a perpetual Pro Tools Ultimate license (which I feel obligated to renew every year so that I do not fall out of the support system, so I guess it isn’t really “perpetual“) but rarely use it. On Windows Pro Tools is a nightmare. On a Mac it is ok. I prefer Nuendo but if you are around a lot of Pro Tools pros I guess Pro Tools is something to consider.

[@shanjaykris8979]

@@michaelgwagner thank you so much sir ,for the reply

[@nicksaya]

How do I use external Dolby renderer with Cubase rather than using Cubase renderer? I got it synced and get sound to the renderer but still not behaving right. Reason I want to use the renderer is so it can use the Dolby panner.

[@michaelgwagner]

Very interesting question! The external renderer can only be used with Nuendo and not Cubase. If you use the Dolby Atmos Music Panner you might get it to work but I have not tried that yet.

[@nicksaya]

@@michaelgwagner thank you. Also why are object tracks main outs still need to be assigned to bed to be heard if as objects they go straight to render?

[@nicksaya]

@@michaelgwagner I get everything to go there and plays. It shows all levels too but I guess it’s not as you say configured to work with Cubase.

[@michaelgwagner]

I honestly have not tried it. There is no reason it should not work unless it is disabled somehow.

[@nicksaya]

@@michaelgwagner keep us posted if u ever do. I tried everything. I may try to mimic how protools sets up there I/o for atmos.

[@svenisaksson3970]

With regard to delivery formats (that is an important issue), I have two questions. 1) What format du Blu-rays (yes, this flat round things, called discs ;) ) use? Not the two from DaVinci Resolve, I guess. 2) How do I print a binaural file from Cubendo? I think that most Cubase users will mix on headphones. Printing a binaural mix would be a good way to let a client evaluate the Atmos mix. Not everyone has has access to full-blown Atmos speaker set-ups. This might be the subject of a future video.

[@michaelgwagner]

Yes, thanks, the binaural mix question comes up a lot. Now that the internal renderer has the option of a binaural downmix, you could just export it through Cubendo.

[@jura649]

@@michaelgwagner Hello! Could you post your template under the video?

[@amirharony3859]

@@michaelgwagner OMG export it through Cubase, that is what i was trying to find thanks

[@MrAchris10]

Waves Nx is Ambisonics B-Format. B-Format is "4 channels": X (LR), Y (UD), Center, and Front Back zones of a sphere.

[@michaelgwagner]

Yes, but Nuendo sees it as a quad plugin. You need to put it on a quad track and then disable the panners, effectively tricking Nuendo into using the quad track as an Ambisonics track.

[@MrAchris10]

@@michaelgwagner Yes Sir. I think it just sees 4 channels and assumes it's a quad. I'm not sure if there is anything else to a B-Format that could let Cubase or Nuendo know that it's not a traditional quadraphonic track. Perhaps a drop down option to choose Ambisonics B-Format

[@michaelgwagner]

I did not find a workaround other than masking a quad track to create a “fake” Ambisonics track that can host NX. I’m very interested to hear if anybody has a different solution.

[@MrAchris10]

@@michaelgwagner Thanks for all you do! I will make the request on the Steinberg forum.

[@Vickmihaltan]

Why I don’t have the ADM for Dolby atmos in cubase 12?

[@michaelgwagner]

Do you have the pro version?

[@robglass9716]

Hello! Thank you for your videos. Do you have any suggestions for ways for my clients to sample ATMOS music tracks to clients for QA after converting to .mp4? I prefer to use Nuendo, and as far as I know Dolby Renderer is the only way to export an .mp4 (which is the suggestion I've found elsewhere). I was hoping that option would be available within Nuendo, but I haven't seen anything to indicate that yet. Also, even once it's been exported as an .mp4, I have found very few (and those I have found seem a bit involved) ways for my clients to listen to the mix on Dolby ATMOS capable devices such as an iPhone. Thank you!

[@robglass9716]

I'd like to add that I did just watch your video on Converting Dolby Atmos Masterfiles to Atmos MP4 with AWS Mediaconvert from December, and I really appreciated it. But any suggestions for players for clients to use that are not iTunes in order to QA, that would be appreciated as well.

[@michaelgwagner]

I have not tried that, so take it with a grain of salt, but you should be able to use the Dolby Access app to play both masterfiles as well as mp4 on an XBox connected to a home theater setup. You could also use Dolby Atmos for Headphones on Windows.

[@florianangerer5121]

Hello! So the MP4, which can be created with the Dolby Atmos Production Suite (currently there's no Windows version), can theoretically be played back on a lot of devices. You could, for instance, copy it onto a USB stick, and plug that into an AV-receiver with an Atmos capable speaker system, and many of them will play that back. However, all of the possible options that I know of are relatively involved. Many mixing engineers in this situation just end up exporting a whole bunch of deliverables, including a binaural mix, that they then send to the client, along with a novel, that explains to them, how to actually listen to this stuff.