The Coal War - Panorama

[@IKS-Exploration]

loving all these old videos at the moment :) thanks for uploading

[@joesmith-zq1ry]

If anyone is in any doubt as to who to believe, just think, Smith said that in the future more investment would lead to greater exports which would lead to more jobs. Scargill said that the Tory Government had a long term plan to destroy coal mining in Britain. Who was right?

[@MorphingReality]

Was not expecting Paxman's hair among other things, solid upload :)

[@Mortimer_Duke]

Scargill ultimately couldn't see past his own dogma to do the service which miners needed most, which was to understand the collieries' unsustainability was a matter of sheer mathematics, not politics or social differences.

[@hughs1worldprojectpeace646]

mr duke watch the programme you dunce

[@samdavepollard]

Many Thanks for uploading this.

[@michaelcaldwell3709]

An absolutely tragic period in recent history.

[@michaelcaldwell3709]

Not recent, but recent history.

[@sadduck28]

@@michaelcaldwell3709 a necessity that had to happen , britain in the seventies was held to ransom by the greedy unions, the governments of that time were weak, margaret thatcher was not

[@_Ben4810]

As tragic as the loss of the British whaling, asbestos, snuff & candle making industries... Coal had had it's day, & some people found that fact near-impossible to accept....

[@billbutler9862]

Thanks for posting, interesting especially from 2016 with whats happening in other industries.

[@marsspacex6065]

Anyone know what that old time coal miner song is?

[@KKTR3]

No answer

[@DOCTORDROTT]

Coal was on the decline in the 1960's sad but true Reason, central heating , gas and oil and no steam locos on BR . I was told prior to an interview with the NCB that the mine had 10 years max . it lasted 9 years . The greenies have now completed the job

[@KKTR3]

So what fed the power stations

[@izdatsumcp]

Were the collieries deemed by the miners too big to fail?

[@terrygill8280]

Scargill told the miners what they wanted to hear, not what they needed to hear. Had he been clever, there could and should have been a compromise. The truth was the Government and the miners both relied too much on coal. The only difference was the Government knew change was needed, and the change could have been slowed down and phased in instead of the brutal crushing of the union and miners. Has a huge knock on effect for Trade Unions across the country and beyond. The miners relied far too much on the colliery’s and virtually no education for families far too eager to get into that industry. A terrible occurrence for all involved 😢

[@kailashpatel1706]

I agree with some of that...and I supported the Miners in 1984/85...A humane rundown of the industry over 10-15 years starting with the pits with no viable future and moving towards a core of highly productive mines that, with advances in technology and clean coal could have supplied a reserve backup even by the end of the 1990s for the energy needs of the country, all of this buttressed by say a transfer of money from the EEC to help the transition but that was the responsibility of the State and the NCB not the NUM...!

[@terrygill8280]

Whoever that guy was at 38:42 talked a whole lot of sense, had they listened to him the result could have been so different

[@brianm2881]

Does anyone know the name of the song at 5 minutes in?

[@johnclarke2997]

Many power stations would have closed due to modern efficient methods used in the office and home. For example a modern light bulb with LED technology consumes around 6 to 10 watts too produce the same power as a 100 watt light bulb from the 1980s. Same improvements have been made to other devices around the office and home, for example a modern TV consumes a fraction of the electricity as a 1980s TV. Multiply these figures across the country and you have a few power stations being closed. Thermal insulation in houses and offices has vastly improved and also has heating technology. Yes, it is better to be using our own energy source such as coal and not Russian gas/oil. But the number of power stations using British sourced coal will have been much smaller.

[@incurableromantic4006]

I've been watching a lot of videos about the miner's strike recently, and this is one of the very few I've found that even *attempts* to look at the question fairly, and give all sides a hearing.

[@Fyodor48]

My modest tribute to all coalmine workers, whom made the ultimate sacrifice. in #Scotland #England #Wales #Turkey #USA etc two poignant songs and images. A MEMORIAL TO ALL MINERS; song byAlex Hodgson

[@alanbrown1563]

I didn't SCAB.

[@TerenceDoherty]

Which poah pit did tha work at?

[@ianwatson194]

2019 and there isn't a single mine working..

[@citywise8773]

Not economically viable. Simples. Many industries have waxed and waned over the years and coal mining is one of them.

[@danieljones3955]

It is in Wales Aberpergwm mine

[@TheCochyn]

Is this narrator Paxman?

[@DominicNaylor]

TheCochyn Yes, and he was also Reporting, he was on Camera a few times see @ 7:26.

[@originalpickaxe]

Ned Smith..........liar liar , pants on fire...................how many people are employed in UK coal mining industry now in 2016,,,,,,,oh yes there isn't a UK coalmining industry.

[@AdmiralBlake]

a more intelligent trade union leader than scargill would have held a ballot over a nationwide strike, won, and brought down the thatcher government, scargill was quite frankly stupid in his methods, and alienated the trade union movement from the labour party

[@scabycat]

Yes I quite agree that the miners were very badly led. I honestly think Scargill was responsible inadvertently for the loss of more pits than might have been the case under a different leader

[@AdmiralBlake]

scabycat possibly, he certainly misjudged public opinion although in the long run, even the notts miners that didn't strike got shafted (no pun intended) by the tories.

[@scabycat]

AdmiralBlake The million dollar question though is did Thatcher do the right thing for the greater good for the majority of the people ? There is no doubt if I came from a mining community I would probably hate her as much as they do for what she did. But looking at the bigger picture we were producing more coal than we needed and this was even being subsidised by the tax payer. It was a crazy situation that someone had to sort out

[@kailashpatel1706]

+AdmiralBlake A nationwide strike ballot would have been exploited by the Thatcher government to show up divisions in the ranks of the mining communities, the Notts miners would have ignored the results of any national ballot and carried on striking on the basis that as a region, the issues Scargill was fighting over had no direct relevance to them (they had been totally mislead on this issue), I don't if a more moderate leadership would have have prevailed, the British steel workers were lead by a supine union that oversaw the loss of 80% of its workforce and massive closure of capacity...

[@hughs1worldprojectpeace646]

your right/ makes me wonder if he was on the take

[@patdbean]

23:00 80% of electricity generated by coal. Today it is about 4%

[@jamiengo2343]

Oh my Lord look at Paxman!!!

[@ktkee7161]

Swoon.

[@TerenceDoherty]

When they sold off the remaing collieries to Richard Budge, who made 75 million in 3 months, he didn't give a fig once he discarded it.

[@seansands424]

Turys fck this country up well done maggie for looking after our frucher , none

[@TerenceDoherty]

They made it so bad, after the strike, to make redundancy, a better option than staying on. Barnsley Main was worse than a prison sentence.

[@2000Ajjet]

26:28, major faux pas there...

[@juliecook8890]

Lets all go fracking then david

[@siredith8846]

Miners donating to Scargill’s bank account.

[@cheapy2006]

I predict it turns into the biggest industrial dispute in the UK in the (20th. That's just me though. Up the NUM!!!!

[@terrychamberlin8242]

If the miners had won the strike it be a much more civilised Britain .think of zero hour contract minimum wage set far to low no collective bargaining in most palaces corporate rich greed rampant, homeless people people on streets and inequality never more or bigger, food banks .this has happened in a rich country, those working class tory,s should be ashamed of themselves

[@brendansheerin8980]

I agree 100%

[@richardsharpe2966]

Paxman looked a mess back then

[@scabycat]

What a very sensible and relevant comment. I am sure you must be a highly intelligent person

[@richardsharpe2966]

I am scabycat I hate Paxman

[@maverickmac9121]

Interesting that the young qualified minor who is a electrician can only look at working for the coal board with his trade?

[@gazancfc]

God bless Baroness Thatcher she transformed our energy market into a world leading one today. What a woman

[@bluebird7207]

Goes to show what you know.

[@KKTR3]

Are you crackers?

[@mightymulatto3000]

"It is enough to mention the commercial crises that by their periodical return put on its trial, each time more threateningly, the existence of the entire bourgeois society. In these crises a great part not only of the existing products, but also of the previously created productive forces, are periodically destroyed. In these crises there breaks out an epidemic that, in all earlier epochs, would have seemed an absurdity-the epidemic of over-production. Society suddenly finds itself put back into a state of momentary barbarism; it appears as if a famine, a universal war of devastation had cut off the supply of every means of subsistence; industry and commerce seem to be destroyed; and why? Because there is too much civilisation, too much means of subsistence, too much industry, too much commerce. The productive forces at the disposal of society no longer tend to further the development of the conditions of bourgeois property; on the contrary, they have become too powerful for these conditions, by which they are fettered, and so soon as they overcome these fetters, they bring disorder into the whole of bourgeois society, endanger the existence of bourgeois property. The conditions of bourgeois society are too narrow to comprise the wealth created by them. And how does the bourgeoisie get over these crises? On the one hand inforced destruction of a mass of productive forces; on the other, by the conquest of new markets, and by the more thorough exploitation of the old ones. That is to say, by paving the way for more extensive and more destructive crises, and by diminishing the means whereby crises are prevented." -Karl Marx

[@Ingens_Scherz]

And you think that ridiculous strike in '84 is proof that this quasi-prophetic nonsense from Marx that you quote so uncritically (as Imams quote the Koran or priests the Bible) is coming true, do you? You remind me of that scene in A Fish Called Wanda when Kevin Kline's idiot brother says "Monkeys don't read philosophy," to which his long-suffering, realist and pragmatic sister, Jamie Lee-Curtis, replies in exasperation, "They do. They just don't understand it." Go on. Call me a bourgeois running dog. I dare you. -Not Karl Marx

[@mightymulatto3000]

Fits all the criteria in my eyes, overproduction, destruction of the means of production, violence against workers on the behalf of bourgeois state &ct. Doesn't matter if it's miners striking in SA, freedmen striking during the cane rolling season, or steel workers getting shot up by Pinkerton private police. Even trained monkies can see patterns.

[@MrNinjaFish]

Since the death of the Soviet Union nothing productive has happened in the West.

[@Cadzan]

A lot of interesting and passionate comments I remember living through this. It is well to remember that everything Labor nationalized was lost when, when will people realize that socialism does not work. Government has no place in industry never will. There has been wage stagnation for decades and the rich have become the super rich but only after left wing union leaders justifying there own jobs said there was more and more to be had bringing the economic collapse of one of the greatest countries on earth. Millions on life long government benefits and they still keep the red flag flying very sad.

[@andrewkilbride971]

Aye well your Tories(and Lite) have been in charge 40 years now and everything's great isn't it? Anything anyone's got to moan about can't be Labour's fault but still they're nowhere near getting voted in and get blamed for it! Go figure, stupidity maybe.

[@markharrison2544]

I'm so glad coal mining is history.

[@IJHougfhton]

Lions led by dinosaurs

[@MrJan50]

work harder for less pay? Grow up.

[@stephenpoulson5505]

BULL SHIT !!!!

[@ryukey5355]

These union men are disgusting. Couldnt do anything with £20,000!!!

[@scabycat]

When u consider many people get made redundant with sweet f@#k all. To be given a payout that would have bought u a very reasonable 3 bed semi with front and back garden and garage ( perfectly possible in 1984 ) and to pay for it OUTRIGHT and for the rest of your life have the security of a roof over ur head without any mortgage or rent to pay - I think the miners were offered a very generous deal and I know full well what I would have done. True I might have spent a considerable time unemployed but I'm certain I would have found SOMETHING eventually.

[@Saeleyjnr]

scabycat Homeownership or redundancy pay-offs limit your ability to sign onto the dole. So if you bought a house outright and tried to sign on (because you live in an area where there are no jobs - factories, pits, local businesses all closing down), you wouldn't be able to and they'd use that £20k asset against you, which means you'd have to sell/remortgage it.. which is more uncertainty.

[@scabbycatcat4202]

Saeleyjnr You are factually INCORRECT. When myself and 600 others took voluntary severance from our company every last 1 of us signed on the dole and we were perfecrtly entitled to recieve it. Just about EVERYONE I know got jobs- many paying more than they were on previously.

[@kaceyanders6599]

If you have £20K in a bank account (i.e. money, I'm not sure if it were tied into something like a house/property etc), then it DOES affect the dole entitlement after 6 months (182 days to be precise). You are allowed 6 months dole on what's known as Contribution Based Jobseekers Allowance provided you've worked enough over the last two financial (i.e. tax) years. After the 6 months, it would depend on the amount of money you had. The current limit is £16K, over that (or maybe even if you had bang-on £16K), you won't get a penny (though you will get the NI stamp).

[@aprilash9809]

Maggie was in it to win it,and she did.Resolute lady.

[@HRHooChicken]

Rather than strike and complain, why didn't they work harder for less pay? Sounds drastic and unreasonable, but hey if they loved mining so much they would have agreed. Under Thatcher, pits had to make money and make it in the long term if they were to survive.

[@johnstuartmill2661]

Get your facts straight: the pits did make money. The coal being dug up from domestic pits was cheaper and cleaner than the import coal being used today. In fact, the government's policy involved heavily subsidising unprofitable gas plants and the building of enormously expensive nuclear plants to break the power of coal. In 1989, five years after the beginning of the Miners' Strike, 80% of energy in Britain was produced by coal. Even today a large amount of energy is generated with coal, only now it is generated with vastly more expensive Russian coal. And hey, if you think the conditions in the mines were so great, why not go and take up mining yourself in one of the many great pits in China, Russia, or Turkey?

[@scabycat]

JCBAirmaster73 Thatcher inherited a crazy situation where the miners were producing more coal than either the country needed or we could sell abroad. This absurd situation was actually subsidised by the long suffering taxpayer. What was she supposed to do ???????

[@scabycat]

JCBAirmaster73 Yes but your argument ignores a very simple fact. Before Thatcher the miners/power workers could literally hold the country to ransome. They had the power to bring down a democratically elected government. They were very badly led by Scargill/ mcgahee and many others who made no secret of their communist agenda. It was right and proper that this woman of steel stood up and re claimed this country from a group who obviously had too much power..

[@scabycat]

JCBAirmaster73 There is a lot of truth in what you have said. We all benefit from conditions hard fought for by well meaning union leaders and politicians of every stripe over the years. The difficult question for you to answer is could we have continued on the same path that we were on during the 70s ? I honestly believe had we done so the masses would be a whole lot worse off now without the Thatcher " revolution ". Socialists have very poor and very selective memory. This country had been in decline for years and there was apathy everywhere. What happens if you give the working man decent wages, decent conditions, decent holidays , decent pensions and job security ? He GOES ON STRIKE FOR MORE !!! That is exactly what happened in some of the nationalised industries . I would have loved to ask Tony Benn if he ever felt betrayed by the very people he fought for because the working man is his own worst enemy. The only system that works is ownership through capitalism.

[@scabycat]

JCBAirmaster73 The Thatcher years gave rise to the belief that greed was good....................No she didn't .She gave rise to the belief that FREEDOM OF CHOICE was good. She gave people ambition and aspiration. Just ask yourself how many good solid traditional labour supporting socialists do you know who bought their own council house when given the opportunity ? I personally know of dozens who did. How many nationalised industry employees do you know who became shareholders when given the opportunity ? Thousands . Give people the opportunity to better themselves and they will grab it with both hands Unions level the playing feild ....etc Yes but not to spread the wealth, it only spreads the POVERTY. The historic record is crystal clear on this issue. The only system ever to lift the masses out of poverty is free trade, enterprise , and freedom of choice. Socialism has had its day and now even the Labour party has had to abandon it in order to get elected in 1997.