don't always music theory

rules are rules because of rules. thanks, super helpful.
...share your favorite rules on Discord👇👇
/ discord

[@dopaminecloud]

It literally can't dictate anything bro. If you thought it did idk what you were fooled into studying but it wasn't it.

[@arizonagreenbee]

@@ryanpmcguire Thanks Ryan McGuire from Chicago! I have always wanted permission to cope from a guy with glasses named Ryan McGuire in Chicago.

[@ryanpmcguire]

@@arizonagreenbee cope more

[@JackieRompana]

@@ryanpmcguire Let's all cope the mostest together and enjoy the free jazz :D

[@boxmeister3059]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/b2TXhqScZrpla5Y

[@0v_x0]

Copest mostus. Linnaeus wins. Also Loony Toons. I prefer hopium to copium. It replenishes itself and the withdrawals aren't nearly so bad.

[@saxydude1533]

My AP music theory teacher told us at the end of the year that you learn all the rules so that you know how to break them properly and that when we’re writing music for fun they’re more to fall back on than to actually use in a formulaic

[@0v_x0]

I hear this a lot and totally agree. Although it can also be fun to learn rules by breaking them until something clicks 😅

[@thebiggestcauldron]

I think it's the same with knowing proper language.

[@timmyc9915]

Ok we didn't go crazy today, nice change of pace.

[@0v_x0]

Speak for yoursel-- actually, no I feel pretty okay this evening. I reacted too soon, out of habit.

[@wand6792]

when someone says "you're right" but then you hit them with that F#m7b5 😔

[@olek0]

sometimes i decide to practice my instrument but then i realise that i have to know what the fuck F#m7b5 means to proceed

[@LizordSword]

​@@olek0f sharp with a flat third, a flat five and a flat seventh it sounds mildly terrifying and sparkly

[@pathos_music]

@@LizordSword in context it sounds nice

[@loopyzreal]

Related, I’ve never really seen music theory as a set of rules. Instead, I’ve always seen it as a set of ideas. From me learning my first I-vi chord progression all the way to 12-limit just intonation, I’ve always just enjoyed the journey in absorbing new musical ideas. Never did I look at these ideas as if they were rule of law. I guess music education has been structured in a way that musicians are taught that certain things are correct and wrong; and I see it might change in the future. In reality, music’s true beauty lies in being able to combine and implement ideas in your own unique way.

[@terdragontra8900]

The way I like to look at it: when composing, music theory doesnt tell you what to do, it just describes what you are doing

[@occams_chainsaw]

Agreed. I think theory gives musicians a base skill to build from when composing. I think it's wise to learn the "rules," and then have fun trying to break them.

[@loopyzreal]

@@occams_chainsaw For me, what’s cool about theory is really how when you think you’ve broken a “rule” (or did something you aren’t familiar with yet), really, you are just discovering a new music theory idea. For example I remember playing an Am7 back then, then just moving the voicings to create an AbM7 and I instantly fell in love with it. Little did I know at the time, I had discovered for myself Modal Mixture!

[@dopaminecloud]

@@occams_chainsaw What are these rules people keep pretending are there in music theory? I'm so puzzled.

[@MaggaraMarine]

​@@dopaminecloud Music theory itself isn't rules - it's more of a description of patterns. But music styles do have specific rules. There are certain things that will sound right/wrong in a jazz context, and those are different from the things that will sound right/wrong in a classical context. You can use music theory as a language to describe those patterns, and that's when you could say that the music theory is at least describing the "basic rules" of the style. To some people, "there are no rules" is what they need to hear. To other people, "learn the rules first" is what they need to hear. For example a lot of beginner composers have no idea of what a form is, and they will just add ideas one after another without any repetition or development. Or their chord progressions have no internal logic, and they are just random chords played one after another. Or their rhythms lack a sense of pulse and structure. And that just isn't good composition, just like writing random words on paper is not good storytelling. But then again, some other people take some theoretical concepts too literally, and think that just because the concept of scales exist, they MUST only use notes in one scale and can never use any notes outside of the scale (even though this isn't a rule, although understanding what notes are inside vs outside is definitely something people should learn). And in that case, "do whatever you like - there are no rules" is the advice they need to hear. Also, if we think a bit more deeply, the things that music theory decides to name, and the way that these concepts are conceptualized (for example chords are stacks of thirds, interval names are based on 7-note scales, etc.) does influence the way people think about music, and it does make thinking outside of the box more difficult. I mean, Western music theory is very much focused on harmony, so thinking about harmony in detail is really easy, because you have the vocabulary to talk about it. But what about timbre? It isn't easy to analyze timbre using music theory. And if you want to write a piece where timbre is the main focus, it's a lot more difficult to find the right tools for that. So, in a way, theory implicitly teaches you that "harmony is important". And it also implicitly teaches you that "correct harmony is based on stacks of thirds". (And even if you play chords based on other intervals than 3rds, you probably still try to conceptualize it through tertian harmony - for example you would probably still try to call a stack of 4ths a "sus2" or "sus4" chord, or maybe it's a part of some "m11" or "6/9" chord. And all of these chord symbols are based on tertian harmony, so you are still approaching it from that perspective.) Or "major scale is the basis of most things" - but what about scales that have very little to do with the major scale, like the diminished scale? I mean, sure, you could build traditional major chords from the notes of that scale, but what if you wanted to use it in a different way that doesn't just sound like "the major key with a bit more spice"? If you approach most things from a "major scale" perspective, it's difficult to ignore the "major scale bias" when it is actually not relevant. These are the kind of rules that are much more difficult to break, because the whole way you conceptualize music is kind of based on these basic ideas. It's difficult to ignore harmony (or other elements that are really easy to notate in a specific way) if your theoretical understanding is mostly based on harmony (or what is easy to notate using standard notation). And it's more difficult to write in a way that prioritizes other musical elements. Or let's take the ending of this video as an example. The beginning is very standard stuff. Yes, there's some chromatic stuff, but it's still fairly standard and contains all of the typical basic elements of a song (melody, harmony, rhythm, clear phrases, clear cadences, etc.), whereas the ending doesn't have clear harmonies and is rhythmically a lot more ambiguous, and instead of a melody, there's speech that doesn't really follow a clear rhythm or melody in relation to the pulse/key of the song. (Well, does the song even have a clear pulse or key?) So, if people say "forget theory" when they mean "it's fine to use notes outside of the key", they are still actually talking about stuff that's really easy to explain using standard theory, and stuff you would naturally learn if you learned more theory. That's not breaking any rules - it's just using standard concepts that you simply don't yet know the names of. But I would say the latter half of the video does break some basic "rules" of what we think when we think of "music".

[@kishiyomo993]

Fitting topic for the day, thank you Seth.. Music is more than a tool. It is a peaceful and soothing, language. Would it be nice, if we forget our native tongue and speak only in music?

[@soupisfornoobs4081]

Last time we tried it (sol re sol) it was a bit of a mess

[@kishiyomo993]

@@soupisfornoobs4081 haha.. But you have Seth this time 😘

[@Destin-Feralis]

That’s what Don’t Starve is

[@zzz_zzz_ZZZ_zzz_ZZZ_ZZZ_Z_z-ZZ]

okay white boy, go ahead push your linguistic supremacy 🙄. It’s not like we have shit like esperanto which would serve as way better auxiliary languages than your preposterous “music language” f off.

[@baldrickthesphereofamusement]

C B D A# Dmin7. F G E Ebmaj.

[@DayE114]

*Insert profound Debussy quote on not always having to music theory*

[@0v_x0]

Insert profound John Hurt quote crediting Debussy for setting 20th century music "on its way." (Well, Art of Noise quote, but read by JH).

[@Phroggster]

"There's gold in them thar bars!" -Mark Twain 1892 (paraphrased), misquoting Dr. Matthew Stephenson, after he heard Seth David's amazing and chill Saturday morning vibe when he time traveled to 2022 from 1849. Seriously, this one is hot! 🔥🔥🔥

[@MarcoZarco]

Gotta love the misspelling "it's use" just before "choose your words carefully" :) (But yeah, f-sharp me :)

[@HoracioAguilarJerez]

At 0:13 I was expecting those parallel fifths to finally take over

[@bevo65]

Absolutely, objectively, inarguably right on all counts. Perfection.

[@heyyimaura1966]

Tbh, I’ve stayed away from composing because I felt like music theory was obstructing me. After this video, I think I’ll try to compose again

[@cassandralewis3202]

The motto of 2022 “F-sharp you dude” -Seth David 2022

[@PianoHypnoshroom]

seth giving us meta music theory lessons

[@nataliemillermusic]

Ok the chords and harmonies at the beginning are absolutely beautiful

[@davekrochenski]

I had to like this a couple times

[@spacevspitch4028]

Music theory is an "after the fact" kind of tool. And maybe a tool to construct practice regimes if you want to learn jazz or something. But it doesn't really aid in creativity really. It seems like most of the people who complain about music theory and how they don't follow the rules are actually not creative at all and follow the most basic shitty rules without even knowing it. Like, maybe if they knew some music theory, they'd realize they were doing the same basic bitch boring shit everyone does and try something different.

[@gianpark268]

this guy really should deserve more subs than what he has

[@cofftps67yago94]

Damn you’re so right with your video…

[@mouf725]

f-sharp you, dude 😎

[@mr_torle]

Frank Zappa is it you?

[@FranciscoGonzalez-mc6tf]

You’re my hero

[@SiegfriedDeniz]

Thank you sir!!!!

[@schottkydiode7507]

You're right

[@SimonGallup-NOT.CLICKBAIT]

you're right

[@steampunx-the-content-creator]

0:00 to 0:20 is pretty beautiful actually

[@jbdbibbaerman8071]

Maybe I'm stupid bc I don't actually know music theory, but isn't it describing the phenomena of music? Like its whole point is to be able to describe what people do on a technical level? Not meant to be a rule book or even necessarily a guide?

[@jbdbibbaerman8071]

Ig it can also be used to point out or even predict certain patterns or outcomes in writing, and obviously it can make a good guide too. I just don't get the strict adherence to it some people might have

[@0v_x0]

It's more what keys, chords, motifs etc are likely to sound good together in a certain context, and in advanced levels why that happens. It's more technical, with centuries of evolving theory of "how to make music sound good and evoke the right feelings." That's just western theory, lots of different tonal guidelines in other cultures. "Phenomenology of music" on the other hand would be somewhere between anthropology and acoustic physics. FWIW. So yeah it is more like grammar and syntax (and especially context!), rather than the nebulous "phenomenology of writing," for example. Hope that makes sense.

[@jbdbibbaerman8071]

@@0v_x0 that does make sense, thank you for an explanation. I only know so much and I appreciate people sharing their insights

[@ceviridunyam]

Ahhh! Harmonieeees!😭💓♥️

[@meis18mofo77]

mood

[@weedmantrudeau5783]

IS THAT A... PARALLEL 5TH?!?! H-HELP ME I'M GOING INSAAAAAANE

[@SuperLol]

music theory in music is like grammar in languages. And native speakers don't know grammar. In other words, it only serves the purpose of learning, not using.

[@getdirtyonthedancefloor]

*always music theory

[@dorothyallspice1862]

My favorite Frank Zappa song ❤

[@mori-patte]

Last one is legit 🤣

[@SimpleBach]

Yes.

[@sevenlee4318]

Like i'm doing the RCM level 6 piano exam. They won't give you a certificate for participating in the exam unless you also wwite the musical theory as well as the playing part.

[@Nightro95]

hi

[@Finetales]

You learn the rules of music theory so you can then break them.

[@rostislavganse9585]

Nice Progression at the start of the video! Can someone explain it to me?

[@SethIsDavid]

I iii V7/IV IV iv I

[@rostislavganse9585]

@@SethIsDavid thanks!

[@Hi-6969]

Bro turned into mf doom

[@kpunkt.klaviermusik]

If there wasn't music theory - what would music teachers teach? . . . Music?

[@SethIsDavid]

Omg imagine a world

[@kpunkt.klaviermusik]

@@SethIsDavid You seem to have gotten me totally wrong. A world without music theory teachers would be a much better place I like your videos!

[@SethIsDavid]

@@kpunkt.klaviermusik not at all. Im right there with you 😊

[@yusayoutube]

0:25 [as]

[@mr.astronuts3825]

Music theory is just naming, if you’re only learning theory and not applying it you’re not going very far. If you learn music and apply the names of theory to that, you’ll have a good understanding. But never use music theory to write music that is supposed to be actually meaningful to you.

[@spreekcreations]

Music Theory is just a theory!! NOT PROVEN! 😡😡😡🗿☠🔥🐲🥳⚠💹 Your wrong

[@DragonWinter36]

*yo’re

[@BugGenerat0r]

* “has its use”

[@richard87b]

... lol

[@nandoxus]

Based musician.

[@jackatk]

0:18 *its 😔

[@raphaelgradischnig]

I really liked the video, but I can't give a like because I really don't like it when people don't follow the rules of music theory😩

[@SethIsDavid]

E#

[@Meatball996]

Music theory doesn't have rules, it just names things that happen. If you see it as rules you're using theory wrong

[@northernliqhts]

you should have said "b you, dude" that pitch is actually a b

[@jaimecarter3988]

…*its

[@tommaczar673]

Music Theory is just a way to analyze music, not a ruleset to follow. Some of the best music still baffles music dearest to this day because it doesn't follow typical conventions (ie God Only Knows)

[@ruinenlust_]

This isn't homological algebra

[@swafty5813]

Your wrong

[@DMZZ_DZDM]

actually, you're* wrong

[@AaronAcademyOfficial]

F#

[@probablypablito]

WRONG ITS