DON'T Count Cards for a Living (Blackjack)

[@jonabitstream]

This is a very good description of the situation. I’ve been counting cards off and on for about 20 years, and everything you say here is true to my own experience. I hope you’ll continue discussing the many issues around trying to beat casinos at their own game. You have a good sense for the complexity and for the grind.

[@JWALL_]

Maybe once I have some money in my pocket I can give it a real try 😂 but I do plan to make more casino videos!

[@Goofygober769]

Blackjack apprenticeship explains in great details of what it takes to be a successful card counter. It’s just like anything that requires a skill and having a process to be successful with it.

[@JWALL_]

Yes, their course online is how I learned how to count more efficiently! They do mention that it can be difficult to be successful as a card counter, I feel they understate how actually difficult it actually is. 1. Because they are extremely hard workers and hustlers themselves, and understand if you work as hard as them, you will succeed, I think they just don’t know how hard they work compared to the average person. And 2. Because their course’s sales depend on people thinking they have a chance at being a successful card counter. I’m never one to say never but, most people will never be successful card counters.

[@Sleightly945]

@@JWALL_ Buying any get rich course is for suckers.

[@jarodr74]

This video is great and breaks it down very well. I think a lot of people share the belief that if you count cards perfectly you will automatically win big all the time just like the movies. When in reality like you said, the edge is only a percent or so. Not to mention the many other things that can impact your edge such as deck penetration, rules, etc. It is definitely possible to make money and be profitable but it’s not anywhere close to as easy as people think.

[@JWALL_]

Exactly, like many other things, if you really want to be successful at it, you have to give it your all, and when it comes to gambling, I just want to have a good time!

[@georgejg1931]

Hey man this video is fire, brilliantly made, brilliantly thought out and elaborately spoken, good stuff

[@JWALL_]

Thank you!! Currently struggling on the next one so I’m glad to hear this!

[@johannessmithenstein]

You make good points. I think there's a certain group of people though (a very quickly growing one at that) who are just kind of locked out of the typical job market for various reasons. A lot of jobs are going away due to automation anyway, and many of the "career" paths that are left are just not available to nearly as many people as it used to be. It could be lack of experience, lack of "soft skills" resume writing bs, general prejudice against your demographic (most of these people tend to be unattractive low-income males), and many other reasons. Blackjack is one of those off the grid options of making money. It's a way to just be skilled at something, and make money using that skill, without having some unqualified gatekeeper deciding whether you're allowed to try or not. Coming from a background in IT I can't tell you how liberating that is. There's other similar opportunities or "jobs" like blackjack, things like poker, flipping stuff, etc. So for that type of person, it's a great opportunity in a world with very few available. But if you're a girl who just graduated from college in AI or whatever and you have loads of contacts and on-paper qualifications, just get a job, don't waste your time doing something like this.

[@JWALL_]

@@johannessmithenstein very well said! Yes the only true gatekeepers for card counting are yourself and the casino, and that was the other part that scared me for choosing it as a career, there’s already hundreds of casinos using automatic card shufflers, and casinos love getting rid of table games to add more and more slots, and computer generated table games every year too. For card counters I have to wonder how this affects the pool of casinos they go to. But I wish there were more “gatekeeper-less” jobs out there, KZbin in a way feels like that, I’ve really been enjoying it!

[@etrisplayer6169]

Yeah. Simply put, you need a fuck ton a willpower and money to turn a profit. You could also just get unlucky, so you need a big bankroll to take those hits before the good runs roll in.

[@JWALL_]

Exactly! People make it seem easy out here, if I had 50K in the bank I wouldn’t use it to start card counting either 😂 odds are whatever got me 50K is better as a career

[@benjamindover2483]

100 people profitable ? Dont know where you heard that. Thousands make money on reddit/blackjack alone. As someone who loves the casino, I love the idea of being able to make 200$ an hour while doing what i love. You are right about needing a bankroll, but getting 50k isnt a hard thing to do. Most jobs pay that in just a year.

[@JWALL_]

😂😂😂 so you got $50,000 in the bank then?

[@benjamindover2483]

@JWALL_ I'm 21 , I have 10,000 in a broker, 10k in the bank, and 10k in income that's gonna get payed to me this year, that's why later this year I will have a 30k bank roll to continue card counting, by the way, in order to make 50$ an hour, you only need 25k. You are forgetting about comps, wonging out, avoiding negative counts, having an aggressive bet spread, ect. And your risk of ruin would only be 1.5% before you double ur money, after that the risk goes down a lot. By the way, you may be thinking what about travel expenses, well luckily I have a family member who travels a lot anyways, so I just get car pooled by them, and keep my traveling expenses very cheap, been doing this for about a year and I'm just gonna scale up every year. I understand I have lots of things set in place, and this job isn't for everyone, so unless you LOVE card counting and don't care about traveling and being alone and dealing with casinos , mayhe ur right and this isn't for you. I just happen to love everything about this, so even if I broke even (which I dont) I would still do it part time haha.

[@k-oz9671]

getting a 50k bankroll is difficult for someone in the middle class. Starting off with a 10k bankroll is more reasonable if you save aggressively and keep expenses low within a 1-2 year period.

[@kenichi407]

yeah, but those thousands "making money" are anonymous reddit schmucks who aren't making a serious living by counting cards. the vast majority are hobbyists or "wannabes", who think they're the shit after make $300 dollars on a random night. the guy speaks the truth, it's very RARE to meet someone who actually does this for a living and can support a family.

[@JWALL_]

@@kenichi407 yeah Reddit has a lot of “armchair card counters” for sure 😂 they are even part of the reason I pursued it at first, it seemed like there was a community of people legitimately making good money doing this, as I got further into it though I saw this was probably not the case

[@monopoman]

The betting is how they identify it, when card counting when the count is VERY good you will do things at the table that basically no normal player would ever do. You will be splitting 10's which is almost never done by a regular player, you will be doubling down on a bad hand etc. They don't just look at winnings they look for this type of play.

[@TheDestroyer1250]

I successfully ground low stakes tables within 100 miles of me for a few years. I made money but I never had 100% of my bankroll set aside for counting. I moved up to $25 tables and ended up catching heat, along with some negative variance that nearly wiped out most of my gains. Moved to poker for awhile but that grind is tough as well and gets harder and harder as more people learn up on GTO and have more common sense on how to play more correctly. Most people don't realize that poker is a 0 sum game if all the players play perfectly, then add in the rake. The only way to make money in poker over the long run is to always be the best player at the table and have a bankroll to back it up.

[@JWALL_]

Yeah poker for a living is definitely a grind, the people making money for a living playing poker are on another level, I just play with my friends these days mainly

[@ball5591]

This is a solid video, i do this as a career and its definitely true. The skill curve is fucking brutal and you need a decent starting bankroll to have a fighting chance at making a living. Aswell and the swings can be crazy last week went down 30K and you need to just not care lol. For the career counters its normal but if that happens to you when your just getting started it can definitely shell shock you out of pursuing this line of work. Well made video.

[@JWALL_]

Thank you! And yeah I’m tripping when I have to pay for my cars registration for $200 so if I lost 30K in a week I don’t even know what I would do but it wouldn’t be good 😂

[@ThePeterDislikeShow]

I love what I do too but I still work. The work comes in the form of commuting, dressing, knowing what time it is so I'm ready for work, having a curfew because I need to be well rested, etc. If you love what you do you'll never work a day in your life is a freaking lie.

[@JWALL_]

Yes exactly, I’ve come to find out no matter what you do, it will lose its glam and shine overtime, and ultimately becomes work, BUT I do also think it’s important to find a career where the work you do alone doesn’t make you miserable all day, and miserable on your days off thinking about having to work soon, etc… Also helps if the jobs pays nicely!

[@LS-rl5gp]

How long did you card count? In the end did you make money or lose money? I enjoy playing BJ for its entertainment value and don't mind giving the house their 1% advantage. At $25/hand it costs about $15/hour to play and have fun. If you play 8 hours on your Vegas trip then it costs about $120 for the entertainment. Not bad! Some times you win and some times you lose. Nice video!

[@JWALL_]

Well to be transparent I never attempted to count at my local casinos, I learned how to, and in learning how to I decided it wasn’t for me, at least not as a career. It’s not to say I won’t give it a shot in the future but I’m not in the financial position to gamble much right now 😂 and like you said, I also enjoy just playing for entertainment, and have begun to really enjoy craps as well

[@LS-rl5gp]

@@JWALL_ Thanks for the reply. I will check out your other videos. This one was done well!

[@EchoGameCompany-tj7me]

[@JWALL_]

Love him or hate him, this guy is speaking facts ^

[@illzwillzwatuz963]

yYstLe

[@SolidestDog]

This the realest shit ever it gets hard I lost massive in some sessions and got kicked out/trespassed from many places, a place wouldn’t cash me out called the cops who told me to leave then arrested me when i refused

[@JWALL_]

Sounds like you’ve got some real card counter stories 😂

[@SolidestDog]

@@JWALL_fr bro my worst L was losing 20k in 1 shoe betting 2k - 2.5k count was floating around TC 6-8

[@PaperPlateParody]

@@SolidestDog Brutal

[@coryburns4309]

what do you do for a living now then? What did you land on?

[@JWALL_]

You’re looking at the goal brother, I want to create content, but not just KZbin, I have some BIG plans coming soon, the video I’m working on now is nothing crazy but it’s taking longer than I thought, but bigger things are on the way! Ideally before 2025 I’m going to have a few different outlets, some for weekly content, some for more high-production stuff, it’s going to be a lot of fun!

[@ThaoTran-mi6zr]

Can someone please help me explain. If you are a card counter and the count is high, which it is in your favor to get 20 or bj, isn't it the same with the house percent to get a 20 or bj too? Than what's the point of card counting when the house has the same odd? I really dont understand this part. But i see and know people that count card and make money, as for me, i dont understand how?

[@JWALL_]

Because a blackjack pays 3:2, but when you lose, you only lose what you bet. Think of it like this, let’s say there are only cards that make blackjacks in the shoe, every hand either you or the dealer gets a blackjack, 50/50 chance. You’re betting $10, when you win you get $15 back, when you lose you only lose $10, so let’s see a table of that You have $100 total and you bet $10 each hand Hand 1: dealer wins You have: $90 Hand 2: you win You now have: $105 Hand 3: dealer wins You now have $95 Hand 4: you win You now have $110 If you keep going at this rate you’ll make a profit of $5 per 2 hands. So that’s why even though the odds are the same that you or the dealer gets a blackjack, you have the advantage. When you win, you win extra, when you lose, you only lose what you bet.

[@lostconciousness4255]

they actually will lose and push at higher counts a good deal and yes the house has the same odds to get the cards as the player and will always have the added benefit to act last. where CC's make the money, though, are in the doubles and blackjack that they win at those levels. When they win blackjack they typically get 3:2 and double down they will win 2x their money (granted they win). With a high count and double on a 11 they are, most likely, to get a 10. so a BJ at $500 bet will get them $750 and double down win will be $1k but if they lose the hand they've lost the $500 (dealer has BJ instead). this is the "edge" CC have and why playing any BJ table that offers 6:5 is a waste of time unless your bet spread is ENOURMOUS. tl;dr card counting isn't the advantage in itself, it's betting large enough to cover losses plus some when they have a high possibility of blackjack or a solid DD win.

[@kenichi407]

also, player has the "luxury" of standing on 16 against a bust card. dealers must always hit. when deck count is high, they will end up busting more.

[@bruce4139]

there are a few things, one the dealer always has to draw to 17 which increases their chances of busting in high counts, for blackjack's you get paid 1.5x your bet on a win and lose 1x your bet on a lose. also you can buy insurance when they have an ace up which will negate the effect as well.

[@bruce4139]

so out of curiosity where is your research coming from?

[@JWALL_]

Personal experience, blackjack apprenticeships course, and KZbin, but you all you really need is KZbin to confirm what I’m talking about. Search “card counter gets backed off compilation” in yt

[@breathtidalwave]

completely agree i got banned from playing bj at all my local casinos and only option now is to travel and play.

[@JWALL_]

That sucks!! Do they at least let you play other games like craps?

[@breathtidalwave]

@JWALL_ yup they do, they even let me play those stupid csm bj games. But I just wanna do shoe games

[@Bobbel11_]

Amazing video! Like the style

[@JWALL_]

@@Bobbel11_ thank you!! Rn I’m making a new video about halloween, hoping to have it out by this weekend!

[@JWALL_]

Thank you!!

[@bruce4139]

1/8th in decimal form is 0.125

[@JWALL_]

You right

[@Sleightly945]

I know card counters who talk about grinding and still losing tons of money due to bad luck and then having to drive everywhere from getting backed off left and right. Sounds like a piss poor job option.

[@JWALL_]

@@Sleightly945 agreed, for most of us, including me, it’s more stress than it’s worth, I’d rather just play to have a good time 💯

[@tradingmedic]

AI is going to end card counting in any casino worth counting in very soon.

[@JWALL_]

Probably true

[@dylanschang6386]

how so

[@08y-e1c]

I joyed it

[@cooler1854]

Thought name of video Is don't count cards ? So why they counting ?

[@JWALL_]

Genius 😂🔥

[@lostconciousness4255]

good stuff, people don't realize how much money you need in the bank to do this. I saw on another "advisor" channel where they told the person $5k was a good starting bankroll...yeah, not on your life. For this to be worth it, you have to play at breakneck speed with a great bankroll, I'm talking 200k plus with a bet spread up around 1500x2 at a true 5+. You'll last 30 mins before staff threaten you with a cattle prod, though.

[@JWALL_]

Exactly, you “can” start with a small bank roll, and you can either make a decent amount with a significant chance you’ll lose it all, or make less than minimum wage with a small but still possible chance, of losing it all, They call it your “risk of ruin” if I remember correctly. To make your risk of ruin small enough to be comfortable, and make good money, you need a lot, like you said, in the hundreds of thousands. That on top of dodging all the security etc… I just want to go the casino and have a good time!

[@lostconciousness4255]

@@JWALL_ hahah, you sound like my buddy. Hates when I talk "shop" with him about CC so I completely hear where you are coming from. For posterity, I've been backed off and technically I'm a card counter. Here are the numbers for those who are interested: 6deck, $25 - $150, H17 (hit on soft 17), DAS (double after split) with a $5k bankroll your RISK OF RUIN is 51% and if you don't go broke your win/hour will be $35 with perfect play, Illustrious 18 and Fab4. "oh but $35 is pretty great!" yeah...now add in the MONTHS (possibly years) worth of training this takes, travel expenses and the really high probability of showing up at a casino and being barred at the entrance or only playing 1-2 hours.

[@TheSPEEZY99]

You should stay far away!

[@Bokonj]

Great video

[@JWALL_]

No u

[@uniquefrm808]

I’m also a good 1/2-2/5 poker player and also I’m a AP at slots so I can make money a few different ways in a casino…

[@JWALL_]

AP at slots is quite a claim! Would love to learn how to do that from you

[@uniquefrm808]

@@JWALL_ I just need to sharpen my game on blackjack, what’s so good about it is even if a casino backs you off from blackjack you can go right to the slot machine and make money there also. I live in Vegas.

[@JWALL_]

@@uniquefrm808 where did you learn AP slot play from? I would love to learn about it, I’m not trying to doubt you, but in my head, advantaged play slots is a myth, unless you’re cheating haha

[@chlve]

@@JWALL_ fr

[@bruce4139]

@@uniquefrm808 be careful some places will just ask you to leave or tresspass you as oppose to tell you no more blackjack

[@wwnd1]

nice video

[@JWALL_]

No u

[@polok890]

Play at home, if cant win at home ...gambling has never worked for anyone ever

[@JWALL_]

I mean, if you count cards at home you can see there is an advantage over time, but it’s also much more difficult to do the same thing in the casino, compared to the comfortable environment of your home, plus like I mentioned in the video, to safely make decent money overtime you need to already have a pretty substantial bankroll

[@kenichi407]

great video... serious wakeup call which goes against the grain of all those other youtube videos glamourizing card counting.... (psst, it's a pyramid scheme to get you to join their courses!)

[@JWALL_]

Thank you! And exactly!! And the courses glamorize what you CAN make but focus a lot less on how hard it is to actually do that

[@lostconciousness4255]

@@JWALL_ they NEVER show you those depressing moments when you sit in the car with the gambler's depression after having a big loss. Even if you are playing PERFECTLY you can lose A LOT. I've lived them and they really mess with your head.

[@lljackieboyll8830]

⁠​⁠@@lostconciousness4255blackjack apprenticeship is the only option when learning card counting. They teach bankroll management and just how important it is. Yes you can lose a lot in a short period of time. But, card counting is a long term game and as long as you have a perfect game, the math will work itself out.

[@noThankyou-g5c]

@@lostconciousness4255tbh i’ve literally seen that from one of the biggest channels glorifying card counting. shots of him like crying in the car from stress

[@someguy-k2h]

There are way more than 100 people counting cards these days. There may be only 100 people card counting for a living, but that's very different. If you can walk into a high stakes room and make $20-$30K in a night, and do it 2-3 times a year, then why wouldn't you? Going on a vacation every so often where you make money is the dream. Then you appreciate your real life that much more. Nobody ever told you to waste your life living in casinos, trying to hide your identity. You did that.

[@JWALL_]

That’s what I said, only about 100 people are making good money card counting. I wouldn’t describe someone as a “card counter” if they just counted cards and lost every time because they were bad at it. Only an elite few, probably around 100, maybe 200 if we’re being generous, are profiting well from counting cards. And that’s a take from a professional card counter, not me, I’m just relaying the message

[@Alexandertygreat]

Ummm just an fyi, if you play properly craps is exactly 50/50. The casino truly doesnt have to build in an edge, ppl are greedy and stupid. They want the rush of winning big. But yes the casino also builds in a massive edge, in some games. Why do you care taking money in poker? Those same ppl will lose that money anywhere for any reason. Thats life, life is a zero some game.

[@JWALL_]

The only way to get a 50/50 bet in craps is by taking either the pass line or don’t pass line, and both of those have a small house edge. No game in the casino is 50/50 flat, as much as I wish there was. That being said Craps has been my game of choice going on about a year now, because you can stack the 50/50 odds bet on the pass or don’t pass line, it does yield some great results and I agree if you’re not greedy you can have some great nights with craps!

[@oliben121]

did you think it was going to be easy, cmon nothing worth it is that easy, its a grind and you get rewarded eventually with hours with you EV generated. if you are smart enough you dont need 25k to start with wonging and investor, eventually you quit the counting and invest your money somewhere else once you have drained your actions....counting card is hard isnt a get rich scheme like you though.

[@JWALL_]

@@oliben121 so you must be an expert successful card counter then? And I think you missed my point, card counting is over glamorized and doing it for a living it much different than it would appear. You make it sound much simpler than it actually is, I encourage you to follow your own words and see how it plays out. As I said, I enjoy gambling for fun, I don’t want to ruin that fun by making it a job

[@Broke_Stacker]

.125

[@jl2696]

I mostly agree with you but I have a different critique. Sorry J-WALL, but you take way too long to get to the point of why card counting sucks, and all the cut scenes were really annoying. There's no need to inject unnecessary humor or entertainment; people coming to this video are presumably either already familiar with card counting, expect to hear a serious discussion and don't have to laugh to stay focused, or both. I was really hoping to hear a 17 min video of why card counting sucked for YOU specifically or people you know and not have to sit through a 10 minute long-winded intro to casinos and card counting.

[@JWALL_]

Redditor spotted

[@someguy-k2h]

Making casinos the bad guy is quite lame. There are hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars of investment to make these temples to betting. There are also millions of dollars in monthly costs to keep them running. It's a business. NOBODY ever went into business with the idea of losing. If you don't like casinos, then don't go. Nobody is forcing you. Nobody makes people gamble. You know the odds when you place your bet, and if you don't know, then you are a fool.

[@JWALL_]

I never made them out to be the bad guy, I visit the casino multiple times a year still, I just play for fun. All I’m saying is ‘the war’ between card counters and casinos is decades old and the casinos are winning, hence why there’s so few successful card counters.

[@ncape6486]

Why are you here?

[@itsmr.allmyfriendsaredead4800]

Half of this video you don’t even talk about blackjack waste of time

[@JWALL_]

Thanks man I spent a lot of time on this