Don't Tell Me I Can't Be Gay And Faithful - Latter-day Saints Say How And Why

[@edwardgabriel5281]

I'm 95. Years ago, a friend came to me and told me that notwithstanding he was gay, he married and had a son. He was definitely converted to the gospel and was trying his best to live it. He did, but all the years, since, he told me how difficult and unhappy his life was, but stayed faithful. He often expressed his curiosity of what his life would be like after he died. He stayed on the straight and narrow all these years and died 10 months ago. Just before he died, he told me that he never lost the same sex attraction but was glad he persevered.

[@traczebabe]

I think they must of been Spirits in the pre-existence that needed a greater amount of hardship because they were so valiant. I do believe though that they can lose that same sex attraction through Christ. For whatever reason this man did not, he still kept to the Lord. Too often people mistake everything going the way they want as happiness.

[@trishie818]

Wow! What an inspiring human

[@crazyaboutcards]

Such a strong man. Thank you for sharing part of his story. What a lovely tribute. You must be an incredible friend, too, for him to trust you with his thoughts and feelings and his story.

[@harambeboy]

I’m 96

[@bobhappy991]

he is no different than men at the other end of the spectrum who cant get enough women, you persevere. period end of story. live the gospel and keep you private life private.

[@richardgenck2692]

I love that these brave and strong men are willing to stay faithful to what is true. God will bless them beyond mortal imaginings!

[@tdb1969]

I am a hot red blooded American male that enjoys the desire for a hot red blooded female. I know I will not be going throughout eternity having a human desire contrary to Gods direction.

[@TheGoodeKing]

I'm LDS, gay, married to a woman for 47 years with five children and nine grandchildren. I could never regret choosing this path. It has brought me endless joy.

[@godsoffspring4195]

Can you help me out with something?? I'm wondering how it's possible to be gay without actually participating as such. Isn't that like saying one is an alcoholic but never drink??

[@TheGoodeKing]

@godsoffspring4195 Not at all like it. It's acknowledging that my primary attraction is to the same sex. Being gay isn't an addiction. At the same time, I acknowledge that the teachings of the Church are true and I count myself as obligated to obey them as anyone else.

[@CraigNewsome.]

​@@godsoffspring4195because you are thinking that gay is only about sexual activity. But it isn't. That's like saying that a heterosexual who has never had sex is not a heterosexual . It's about orientation, not sexual activity 😊

[@dannyrocket77]

​@@godsoffspring4195There are millions of people who are alcoholics and don't drink, being gay is way different though but the gospel is way better.

[@godsoffspring4195]

@@CraigNewsome. ... "It's about orientation" Hi Craig. Umm... don't you or shouldn't you mean it's about disorientation?? We do want to fix the root problem(s), don't we, Craig?? No, not quite. I already know the term also refers to other than sex. A hetero who has never had sex has simply never had sex but is a hetero sexual person. I see no parallel to your comparison, buds. Prolly just me. :>)

[@HezekiahQodesh]

*I had same-sex-attraction due to abuse.* I did not want it. I lasted into my the first part of my mission. I had it for two years. I caused it to stay unwhittingly. I would pray for it to go away. By praying for it to go away I was focusing on it causing it to say. I fasted every Sunday every week for two years for God to take it away. I was focusing on the negative to go away instead of asking God to bringing the positive in. I FEARED same-sex-attraction. Fear is not of God. Yet, was are to oppose and battle against sin and weakness, but with courage in the right way. Then when I was in the MTC Henry B Eyring said to us, "Do not try to overcome your fears. Just forget them." I realized that is why my same-sex-attraction was not going away. I feared it. Not fearing does NOT mean to accept and embrace. Contrary what an article on the Church's website says. An article on the Churhc's website advocates "embracing" one's own same-sex-attraction. That is a false teaching. So, I decided to not fear it. I did that by telling ceasing to pray for it to go away. I decided it is not my responsibility to make it go away, but it is the Holy Ghost's burden and He it to take it away from me which I then realized He could not do if I was fearing and focusing on it to go away. So when I fet the same-sex-attraction I told the Lord it is His problem not mine. I placed the burden on the Lord. I then prayed for the positive to come in instead of for the negative to go away. Instead of praying to not have bad thoughts and bad feelings I prayed, "Lord please bless me that my thoughts and feelings and passions will be clean, chaste, virtuous and pure." Byt the time I left the MTS all my same-sex-attraction was gone. I do not have that burden. The Lord replaced it with positive. Display of the PRIDE flag does NOT replace negative with positive. It does not replace ungodliness with godliness. Nephi told his borthers that Lehi's mind was so focused upon other things he noticed not the filthiness of the water. Lehi was so focused on the fruit and getting his family to the fruit (which is Jesus Christ's love and atonement and grace) that he did not notice the filthiness of the water. Lehi focused on the positive, not fearing the negative. Displaying the PRIDE flag does not follow the teaching in the Book of Mormon to not focus on the filthiness of the water, but instead be focused on getting the Fruit. If a person denies that accepting and embracing same-sex-attraction, instead of allowing Christ's grace to overcome it in His due time, is filthiness then the person is saying it is godliness. That is saying God has same sex attractino which would be blaspheme to say. This it he second way the LGBT and thier allies deny the power of godlines, how they have the form of godliness while denying the power thereof. Most of them deny that God can take away same-sex-attraction in this life, if they do not also deny that it is ungodly. By denying that Christ can take it away they deny that Christ's grace, power and atonement are infinite. By denying Christ's atonement, power and grace are infinite the deny limit, and thereby deny the power of God. Hence they have form form of godliness while denying the power thereof. Greg Matson said this stuff is "insidious". I wrote the same. Then I went to bed. The word "pernicious" woke me up over and over all through the night. I am not well read. I am not well educated. I just reach church stuff sometimes. I do not have an extensive vocabulary. I had no idea what pernicious means. I knew the Lord put it in my mind. I later prayed and ask the Lord why He placed it in my mind. He said look it up. I looked up the definition of pernicious. It has the same EXACT definition as insidious. "proceeding in a gradual, subtle way, but with harmful effects." Subtle implies INTENTIONAL. Intentionally harmful is wicked. Therefor, the LGBT and their allies who display the flag and push their agenda under the guise of godliness, claiming they are loving and supporting as Christ would have evil intentions masked by the appearance of being Christ-like. The ones who are displaying it are wolves in sheep's clothing. they do not have godly sorrow. Being PROUD of weakness with by flaunting it with a pride flag is not godly sorrow. Before I wrote what is above I posted this: I would like to add that by the LGBT and their allies wearing the flag and displaying the flag as a way to brag about how Christ-like and loving they are, they do to that o have the "appearance of godliness" while "they deny the power thereof" .How do they deny the power of God? In two ways. (1) they deny that same-sex-attraction is not UNgodliness. The crowing and last doctrine of the Book of Mormon is that we are to deny ourselves of all UN-godliness so that the grace of Christ can perfect us in Christ. This means we are to strive our best to use the grace of Christ in humility not PRIDE (Ether 12:27) so Christ can take away any thing that is Ungodly. I have a lesbian daughter, a gay cousin and a deceased gay uncle. I love them. There is a difference between having the challenge, or trial, being about it, striving one's best to apply the grace of Christ to overcome it and persevere, versus bragging about it and being proud of it. Ether 12:27 we are to be humble to enable Christ to help us overcome any weakness for us. Christ cannot help us if we are proud of our weaknesses. Displaying the PRIDE flag is not an act of humility. Displaying the pride flag does the opposite of relying on Christ to help overcome one's weakness or trial. Some say the pride colors are a way to show support. When I see a pride pin on a person's suit or shirt I see it as the person BRAGGING to the world about how Christ-like they are for loving and supporting someone. "Notice my PRIDE pin. I am so Christ-like. Give me kudos for being Christ-like". Matthew 6:1 "Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven."

[@marilynwatene1480]

Well said. Your insights and wisdom drawn from the Book of Mormon are lovely. That book is truly written for our day. It opens the heavens and helps us commune with and learn from our Father in heaven and our Brother and friend, Jesus Christ.

[@drrnwllmsn3438]

I believe you’re 100% right that focusing on the negative is counterproductive. By displaying the LGBTQ flag it shows Pride in our weaknesses and therefore shouldn’t ever be displayed. I personally see how destructive the LGBTQ “lifestyle” truly is and all the sugarcoating will never hide the truth. Better off just living your life and not displaying it for the whole world to see.

[@TRUTHandLIGHT4809]

Nice words. Think of this. S.S.A. same sex attraction is built on a foundation. What is the foundation? Hatred. Example: if a woman is abused she will hate herself thus becoming promiscuous OR she will hate ALL MEN thus having ssa. For a man, if he hates himself he will pine for a man, or he will hate all woman. Thus having ssa

[@jaydavis1165]

Tember your incredible testimony brought me to tears. What an incredible reminder that Christ is the only source of authentic and real joy. All the best brother!

[@SouthernAngel]

I am so grateful for the testimonies that y'all have shared. I am a Latter-day Saint who has struggled with addictions. I am going to be 4 years sober this April and life has been so wonderful. The blessings of the Temple are so wonderful in my life and the Lord has shown me just how beautiful the life to come is. I have clung to those covenants and scriptures that help me keep my feet on hard ground. Ether 12: 27 And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them. This scripture has become a shield to me in my life and the battles that I face. I have learned through my attendance to the Temple that all sin is bad in the sight of our Father in Heaven. You witness this through the garden experience and Adam and Eve. It has given me a new perspective that has strengthened that core foundation on staying on the straight and narrow path. I admire your strength. Your dedication. I can feel the Spirit as you all share your faith and love for the Savior. Great interview Greg. Thank you for sharing a different perspective and the love we can find in helping one another through the trials of life and attacks that the devil does to all of us. We all are fighting some kind of fight. No one is not... everyone has something that is their personal shark in life. Let God Prevail!!!! We got this. I know there is a brighter future filled with love, peace and light!

[@crazyaboutcards]

There are some incredible addiction recovery stories on the Come Back Podcast. So inspiring! Check them out if you haven't already. I think it'll strengthen you even more.

[@surferdude4487]

I'm over 10 years sober. The church's addiction recovery program really helped.

[@mark1mod08]

What an incredible testimony and accomplishment!

[@NormalisViri]

This was awesome. We are all in a battle with the natural man and struggle to Follow Him. God bless these valiant souls.

[@aMuenchGrinch]

That is exactly what it is... I have had same sex attraction since I was young, but I never struggled with it because I know my purpose and that going against it means I'd become like a natural man/woman. I view the attraction now towards anyone, men and women, as I just have a talent and ability to find beauty in people, period. Where the world has been told if you have same sex attraction you are gay, but I feel same sex attraction is more common than people realize, and that it is all by choice in whether you follow the path God wants for you or the path of the world and put desires and the natural man first. I have been open about this with my family and children and some of my friends, so that there can be understanding for if they have thoughts and feelings too about this. My purpose in life is in God's hands, not mine. I have a wonderful life, happily married for twenty years with four kids. Happiness comes from within, not worldly things surrounding us, only from things that have eternal properties.

[@margynelson7945]

You should interview Dennis Schleicher!! He is a KZbinr too and is a gay convert who KEEPS all of the commandments and has a temple recommend! He gets bullied by both sides! He is amazing and chooses to follow Christ!! He stood up for Jeffery R Holland talking at Byu that time where others threw a fit! He got bullied for that too! He is super strong in the gospel and happy because he chooses to follow the commandments!

[@alexlindstrom555]

I’ve seen some surprising comments towards him from members of the Church…people who don’t realize what the Church actually teaches. So yeah…bullied by both sides. But I love how he is standing firm!!!

[@crazyaboutcards]

Yes! I just came across him fairly recently. He's awesome.

[@6barbers]

As if they don’t want to believe what the prophets have taught

[@shelley.ramirez96]

Love Dennis!! He is amazing. Would have loved seeing him in this episode.

[@6barbers]

@@jmut714 isn’t that the point ? Jesus said we would be despised in his name, we know from the vision of the tree of life many woiod feel the shame from the world…. We know we are born flawed with thr temptations of man and that the flesh leads is unto temptations.

[@ban_cho3476]

I do wish that Latter Day Saints who call themselves gay and are striving to keep their covenants like the rest of us would drop the gay term and realize that’s not who they are ! You just struggle with same sex attraction like a lot of people struggle with opposite sex attraction but don’t wear it on their shoulder we just try and overcome it by choosing the right

[@dont_blame_me_youre_wrong]

I don’t know if that is the way we should do it. How many people could be helped if we were honest with our sins instead of hiding our guilt? How many people would be willing to reach out and help if they just knew someone was having a problem? EQ classes are much better when the lesson is correlated to what the people you know and live around are going through and dealing with. Fathers’ and mothers’ that share real life expericnace have a much stronger connection to people. If you don’t want them to share how can you ever hear about their vital experiances that can help everyone. A class or group that discusses things on that level and how they relate to the gospel and the lesson has the power to change lives and inspire everyone to do better. A young person in school struggling with sin of any type and doesn’t have someone to share with may never feel welcomed into the fold because they don’t have someone to help them. What a miserable existance to be alone on your own, when there are people that do care but they have to share with good people. If they cant share with good people in the church they will search for people that will allow them to share and that seems like a dangerous path.

[@crazyaboutcards]

I'm not sure what the right answer here is, but I think this topic you brought up deserves further discussion. We're all trying to deal with our world right now, and we need the best tools we can get. I appreciate Greg for facilitating these important conversations and hope it continues.

[@trishie818]

Agree

[@bobhappy991]

i couldnt agree more, its no more different than any other difficult born with issue, some men are born with way too much love for women if you know what i mean, just as difficult, just different but he is not wearing his problem on his sleeve.

[@ropearoni4]

Rarely is a member supposed to relate past or current sins in a lesson, let alone for the youth. Explaining your past sins often gives everyone the notion of " you did it and you came out fine" so I'll follow your footsteps. A blanket of "don't make this choice" loses its meaning if you then mention that you did it as a youth as well. Justification is the easiest path, someone just needs to start you on that path. I've heard too often "I need to make mistakes to learn from them. " You don't have time to make them all yourself, best try to do your best in your choices and not push your luck you will make the correct choice after choosing the wrong one first.

[@daniellichtenstein7541]

This is one of the most refreshing discussions about an incredibly sensitive topic that I've heard in a long time. God bless you three for being brave enough to talk about this topic in such a wonderfully faithful way, putting Christ and his gospel before anything else, especially in such an incredibly confusing time in human history.

[@temberharward]

Loved the discussion, thanks for hosting Greg 😊

[@jonathanduran8669]

Wow, what a powerful set of testimonies from the members of this panel. You guys are all amazing and I am so grateful for your influence for good. :)

[@wendyfoster5579]

Years ago I read the book In Quiet Desperation after a son came out as gay. I have so much respect for those with SSA but want to keep their lives in alignment with their testimony and covenants. That respect extends to all of you. Thank you for being a voice for those with this struggle as we all have temptations and are working to always stay aligned with our covenants.

[@dwaynecloar7554]

That book is heartbreaking and shows how difficult, almost impoosible to stay

[@germanslice]

Although his book is good, his path does not work for everybody, it may work for the Bi, but I don't think it will work out for every single gay person in the Church who is not attracted at all to the opposite sex.. For If the SSA is too persistent and too strong here in this life as it is with some members and does not go away after prayer, fastings and counseling ect, them its not wise to marry here in this life if the SSA does not go away to allow marriage to work then they have to remain single and celibate here in this life and live the law of chastity and just wait until the Millennium to enter into those temple covenants of marriage or if the Lord does removes the SSA to allow them to enter into it here in this life.. Its still the same plan of marriage, its just not the same timing for everybody to enter it. And the Millennium is not far away so its not long to wait. When it comes to choosing the right, and being valiant and doing your duty, when it comes to entering into marriage you have to choose the right Timing..Not just choose the right just because Satan says its your duty to have do so. of course he will say that because he wants you to do your dury and be obedient at the wrong time. The timing is more important. Dont play a dangerous game of russian roluette putting with your own faith and testimony all on the line just to win bragging rights to try to challenge Satan on SSA. Don' Challenge Him in this Area... Or he will challenge you and bring in far more fight and trouble in your marriage than you can handle if you think you can just walk on into serious temple covenants bringing serious unresolved SSA conflicts and say to Satan your weapon is nothing, I am married now, you can't do anything, Then Satan will bring in all the trouble to try to prove you wrong and he may win the fight.. So what you gotta do is wait until the Lord tells you the right time to marry, he will pick the safest time to enter those covenants. Either its that. OR If they don't want to wait until marriage either here in this life or wait until the millennium because they don 't like to be all alone here in this life without a partner and refuse to live the law of chastity to wait until the Lord's time and they just jump straight into temple marriage before the right time has arrived then they are challenging Satan to a massive big fight and risk destroying their own marriages and destroying their faith and testimony and find themselves going out the doors of the church and plunging into a serious faith crisis on their sexuality which is what happens to those who jump straight off into the marriages at the wrong time. They end up with more fight from Satan than what they can handle. Its not wise to jump into the marriages with serious deep ongoing persistent unresolved SSA problems or when the SSA is skyrocketing or at full strength. Because that gives Satan more power. The Lord says for those who have deep marriage conflicts that they are given a space of time before the resurrection to enter into those covenants for those of us who don't have the opportunity here in this life to marry because ongoing conflicts. But Satan says forget staying single and living the law of chastity you don't like being alone, to fix that problem marry right now, Hurry up, Hurry Up, Time is running out. He says do it here in this life then you won't be dammed as an angle. But what he doesn't mention is the Millennium the space of time to marry in for those who don't have the opportunity. And when it comes to marriage temple covenants you have to enter into them at the right time. in the Lord's own time, not your own time.... Because time is running out before Jesus returns, not all can marry here in this life because there's not enough time to get everybody all married and take that course that the book Quiet Desperation suggests so the wise course for those who don't have the opportunity is to do as Elder Holland has suggested and focus on living the law of chastity, just wait until the millennium to enter marriage or when the LORD tells you to enter into the marriage. Chastity is is the more harder road, but its nothing compared to the amount of unbelievable trouble that arise up in the marriages of those who don't wait for the right time and try to challenge the adversary head on. So you have to use wisdom when it comes to entering the marriage covenants of the temple so if you have ongoing persistent unresolved SSA troubles SSA is not something that you can just trifle with. Because the SSA is a weapon that Satan has at his disposal. Those who are foolish and jump in and marry at the wrong time, Satan will clobber them over the head with it and that is why their faith and testimony all crashes on them and then when the marriage crashes and burns they blame the church and then end up fighting against the Church and against God. That is why mixed orientation marriages has a high failure rate because of too many people had entered into them foolishly at the wrong time with all their unresolved SSA troubles. They thought if they entered into them with all their SSA troubles then their their SSA troubles would be all gone and cured... its not always the case.. And where are they now, they left the church after the marriages crashed and burned. So these things have to be done in wisdom and in order.

[@tysonolsen6147]

This is the best podcast I've seen on this lately. The most positive while also being in line with the restored Gospel.

[@StandforTruth712]

Dear Brother, My heart goes out to you. So many in the church and in the world face isolation and loneliness, whether gay or heterosexual. I have 4 boys, 29 and older who would love to be married with families but have been unsuccessful in finding wives, let alone friends. It's painful to watch. It may not fill all the void, but seeking to lift and serve others can really help.

[@mrsbrookewilkins]

This is so true! I know so many women who are like this also

[@StandforTruth712]

@mrsbrookewilkins So why can't these singles find away to get together?

[@echaffey]

I’m gay and faithful. Celibate and late middle aged and lonely as hell! I hate hearing “O you’re so strong!” I’m not! I’m surviving in a situation where I’m between a rock and a hard place. I love the church and am committed to living accordingly. But it is ABSOLUTELY for me, lonely as hell. Can’t sit through this whole video (too painful and not really speaking to my reality as a gay member)but do you have a good answer for that? In my experience it’s a solitary journey. I completely resonate with what President Hickley wrote in his hymn: “O give me thy sweet spirit still, the peace that comes alone from thee. The faith to walk the lonely road that leads to thine eternity.” Nobody’s interested in my story

[@lavernreeves4675]

Being heterosexual and unmarried is lonely also

[@daffodilfleur]

I’m certain many are interested in your story. I am! I want to solve your problem here (loneliness) but I can’t. What’s helped me is having 3 cats and 2 dogs, but it’s not the answer for everyone. I’m going to pray you find your answers. Some answers don’t come in this life, but they will come. I have plenty of questions, as well. Please know you’re not alone in some of these trying difficulties that are, at times, very painful. I know you are loved and will never be forgotten.

[@oleakokaubeam9314]

I feel you.

[@cabbagebaker]

Comparing hetero singleness to homosexual singleness in this church is ridiculous. Stop doing it. My mother-in-law has been single for 20 years and yet has dated and danced and been extremely active in the LDS singles scene while meeting potential suitors. Of course it's been hard and lonely for her plenty of times as well but it is not even close to the same thing.

[@ropearoni4]

Organist at the First Baptist Church in Bountiful Utah? Interesting occupation for a member of the church. Missionary work from the inside. :)

[@lauramunson3793]

This was a very good choice of topics and presenters, Greg. I know Skyler and Amanda. They are fabulous people doing great things to help others. It isn't easy to put yourself out there like this. I'm grateful for all of these testimonies and the courage it takes to share them and pray for their continued blessings.

[@jerry_phillips]

I can’t imagine how tough their lives are and so admire their devotion. God bless them.

[@SaxSpy]

giving in would be harder (and not admirable) - stds are hard, eternal consequences are hard, lack of spirit is hard

[@kboydlake83]

I hope these brethren are asked by leaders to give firesides. What a humble and faith building message they bring of the Gospel of Jesus Christ! Thanks for sharing. I have met many members who deal with SSA issues and are also covenant keeping Latter Day Saints. I hope they find examples like these to emulate.

[@6barbers]

You can ask your leaders - Sadly it seems that only those that just hope they church will change are given the microphones 🎤

[@dk5215]

I am a Member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and going on 10 years this year with two bright and beautiful boys in a mixed orientation marriage. I would not trade the joy and happiness I experience living God's plan for me for anything the world can offer up, it always falls short.

[@valeriespackman4019]

I have a dear friend the church is a very faithful heterosexual woman. She’s never been on a date and has never married and is in her 50’s. She’s never experienced intimacy or even holding hands. How is her life of being faithful any different? I guess I’m very confused on this issue. I know that she very much wanted to be married and have a family. Instead, she is an incredible blessing to our ward. She quietly serves in so many wonderful ways and blesses so many people. I love having her in my life.

[@Gsp989]

The most beautiful people in this world serve without seeking honor or glory.

[@stacygodnick3887]

Wow Greg, thanks for having these guests on your show. Incredibly enlightening! I loved what you all shared!

[@daffodilfleur]

This was so worthwhile to watch and I loved that Greg cared about listening to each man, and, in turn, that they were all respectful of each other. But, in essence, what I loved the most was that I could feel that God and Jesus Christ were put in the center of this back-and-forth dialogue between the four. What is it that they want of us? How do we show our obedience? Really any issue could be thrown into this conversation, or any conversation, and as long as God, our Father, and our Savior is whom we want to obey, it’ll all come together in the end. True, this isn’t the end, so we may not see our problems resolved in this lifetime, but they will be. As Craig spoke about how this might be in the next life, I can’t say how it’ll all come to pass, but I know it will be because of the atonement of Jesus Christ.

[@mrsbrookewilkins]

Thank you for sharing this! I really appreciated these wonderful Brothers who have the bravery to be vulnerable and share their stories.

[@captainsirk1173]

I wrote a poem trying to sort of capture what dealing with stuff like this has felt like to me. My situation is a bit different, but I’m curious whether people find it relatable. I’ve walked a road of broken vessels No crossroad did I see And all along that road wore smiles Or so it seemed to be. I knew not who my fellows were Or where they might be from Yet every sign I saw left fear Of who I might become They seemed content to walk a path I thought so undesirable With paving stones of jagged shards Each step unjustifiable This road was not without it’s wells But water there was bitter With every sip of tainted drink I longed for something better My vessel, cracked, but leaked a trickle I tried to catch the rain And contemplated every day To brave untamed terrain A light I saw, some distance off Its warmth was faint but dear Yet could I be the one to follow, Be the first to veer? I might forget, if so I wished That light so far beyond A broken mem’ry miles away From where I now belonged I walked that road of broken vessels near shattering my own A soul afraid to leave the path If I would walk alone

[@oleakokaubeam9314]

Thanks for sharing. I have so many concerns and issues in my life. I love the poem.

[@BookOfMormon4GenZ]

This poem fits so many lives! It is a mirror for me and depression. "a road of broken vessels" is a very powerful image! Thank you.

[@DatHughJass]

This sounds like a nice country song if sung.

[@javierruiz3001]

Awesome

[@Victoriaflady]

⁠very beautiful.

[@Sirwilliamf]

It's inspiring to see these brethren choosing to follow Christ and share their testimonies in spite of struggles and opposition.

[@Let_there_be_peace]

Craig, you are spot on. People need to be loved. No matter where they are on the path. Thank you!

[@Gsp989]

David A. Bednar: "There are no homosexual members of the Church. We are not defined by sexual attraction. We are not defined by sexual behavior. We are sons and daughters of God and all of us have different challenges in the flesh. There are many different types of challenges."

[@lancebroshar5818]

Amen

[@josephburton4916]

The mixed messaging is degrading to people who fight so hard to be faithful despite challenges. It’s kind of like the border, people coming in illegally is a slap in the face to those who come here legally. We need to stop thinking we are doing people favors, be a leader and be there every step of the way while we do our best to walk on the covenant path together. I love that this team is so open when discussing these issues, great episode Greg

[@freethinker1056]

This is so awesome. This is what the Gospel of Jesus Christ is all about. Thank you for sharing your testimony and obedience. I think you will be made glorious beyond measure in our Fathers Kingdom for your obedience. Christ suffered in obedience to His and our Father. I would also like to add that the rules of chastity and Temple marriage apply to all of us and not just Gods gay children. I’ve been divorced for 40 years. Those rules certainly apply to me as well as thee. Thank you. You help heal the cracks the mixed messages are creating. I laughed out loud at our New Zealand brother about his not wanting to be married on the other side. That’s my feeling exactly. I’ve been blessed with a wonderful family but experienced enough of betrayal and abuse to be happy with all I’ve experienced without wanting more. I’ll be happy with whatever Father has in store for me.

[@hutchings003]

Short experience, not sure it’s relevant….I was a missionary in Brazil. Taught a couple guys the first two discussions when it became clear they were gay and lived in a house with a handful of other gay men, Mission protocol was to explain the hard baptism interview questions and move on to other investigators if they weren’t willing to repent in short order, We went back one last time, taught them the remaining five lessons all at once and invited them to come to church to keep learning. And then we saw these 2 young men at church for the next 5 or 6 weeks before I transferred and they really ingratiated themselves with the members. About 20 months later, as I was leaving the mission, I ran into the missionaries covering that ward and asked about them. To my amazement these young men were still going to church every week. Still weren’t willing to do what was necessary to be baptized, but so glad they were still learning… I still think about how members in that ward were so loving to accept them, even though they weren’t baptized members. - This was in the late 90’s.

[@ranjanty]

I have nothing but respect for you guys and your strong testimony and commitment to the Savior. If we were in the same ward we would be friends.😊

[@jerry_phillips]

I have so many questions for both of the married gay saints here and for their wives as well. I’m glad to see things working out for them. It’s like swimming against the current.

[@yeshalloween]

I still don’t want my precious daughter to marry a man who feels no attraction for her. It’s so lovely as a woman, to be desired by your spouse, and so heartbreaking when you aren’t. Of course I want for my daughter to feel desired.

[@johnkay8388]

As an observer I just want to say that this is what I see. Obviously I will be told I am wrong but here we go. If someone is a robber. When you meet them for the first time they do not introduce themselves as a robber, 'Hello!, I am a robber or I think about stealing all the time!' Or an Adulterer. They do not say, 'Hello!, I am an Adulterer or I think about cheating on my wife all the time!' If they did, I believe it would open the possibility for them to fall into more of that thing. They struggle with those temptations and they may end up doing those things but does it really define them? It could at final judgement, if they do not repent, if they gave into those temptations. I think it peculiar that someone will first say, 'I am Gay!' There is a definition and a label that makes it absolute much like my examples. When President Nelson talked about labels I think this is what he was getting at. Saying , I am gay, trumps all other labels. It comes before I am a child of God, it comes before, I am a disciple of Christ. To me as an observer, it comes before everything else, it seems. And, not only that, even if someone says I am a child of God or a disciple of Christ and then says, 'I am also Gay', it still over shadows all the other Eternal labels as if it is unchangeable and absolute. I believe this happens only because it is a mortal construct that most people can interpret and understand logically. Not all people are religious or believe in God and have not seen God so when you say I am a child of God or a disciple of Christ, it is a belief. It is somewhat interpreted to the average non religious person as imaginary or meaningless, to an extent, because they do not know God. However, when you say, 'I am Gay' it is something concrete, absolute because they have been taught this is fact and science that defines some people. And, they have seen those people and know they exist. So, if we are commanded by God that a man should marry a woman, that seems impossible for a gay person because their choice has been taken away to this concrete, unchangeable mortal thing. An imaginary being is commanding me to change from this concrete unchangeable earthly thing. Impossible! It's who I am! Obviously, yes you can struggle with same gender attraction and be Latter-day Saints. I just do not understand why someone cannot also say, 'bag it. this is not what defines me!' and I'll follow God and keep His commandment!' To the extent that they will not even use the label or acknowledge the temptation even exists. In the movie A Beautiful Mind ' John Nash says at the end of the movie, 'I still see things (referring to his schizophrenia) , but I choose not to acknowledge them. Like a diet of the mind, I choose not to indulge in certain appetites.' Is this not possible in this case? I think these participants are strong and choosing not to indulge in the appetite to sin but can they also choose not to acknowledge the label or definition? Is that impossible?

[@Gsp989]

Thoughtful. Thank you for this comment.

[@jayx61]

I belive it's a matter of line upon line, precept upon precept. Us being able to see ourselves as we were before mortality, and as God sees us in the contexts of eternal reality, both past, present and future; is a matter of revelation. We can only receive such perceptions of our devine eternal nature by revealation. Whilst here below in the loan and dreary world of mortallity, cut off from the light of truth, it is too easy to identify our inate intrinsic sexual instinct, as the dominant quality of our nature, and thereby identity it as a fundamental aspect of what and who we are. We are spiritual beings, having a physical experience. Our challenge is for our spirits to rule over the physical, rather than our spirits being subject to the physical. Lust is the atribute that we all face, how that lust manifests itself in each of us is not an identifying eternal atribute of what and who we are. It is basicly just one of many premortaly understood challenges that we each individually specificaly chose to receive and undergo in mortallity. When out of mortallity we will see it for what it is. An opportunity to have demonstrated choosing Godliness, Holiness and spirituality over carnality, sensuousnes and devilishness. We demonstrate that we sacrifice our lustfulness in preference to obediance to God. If we are willing to give all that we have to God, then He is willing to give all that He has to us. The truth is that God knowing the past, present and future already knows to which eternal realm of glory we will by our agency fit ourselves for. But because of the law of justice, God can not assign us unto our specific degree of glory without us first abiding by the law pertaining to that specific abode. Once we are given opportunity to act, and then act, God then is justified in assigning our specific abode as pertaining to the law that we are willing to abide by. Those who demonstrate and judged that they are willing to abide by all of Gods law, receive a kingdom wherein the fullness of Gods law and glory abounds. The trials of mortality are intence, Abraham's test is a representative of that. God new Abraham would pass the test, but Abraham himself didn't know untill he faced the moment, and he triumphed over himself, willing to forsake everything in obedience to God. What then are we willing to forsake? What have we received that we are likewise willing to place on the alter and sacrifice to demonstrate our obediance in all things to God? Christ taught, "He that loseth his life for my sake, shall find it". We may cling to our unrighteous desires and identities, the lusts of the flesh. Or we may see them for what they are, and forsake them so as to be obediant to, and conform to the higher laws of spiritual reality, and see ourselves as God sees us. The path to God is only by obediance to His will. Christ has shown us the straight and narrow way that will entitle all who walk it to abide with The Father within His kingdom of glory. In mortality we manifest our character by the choices we choose to make. And each and every one of those choices will confirm that the degree of glory we are assigned to is in accordance to the law of justice, which law is eternal and upheld by the will of God. We are not what we forsake, but are what we embrace. The goal in life is to change ourselves, over come and forsake our carnal, lustful fallen nature's, and change ourselves spiritually to the higher and holyness of godlines. Godliness is our true eternal identity, not the atributes we find present within this temporal body.

[@iamanempoweredone6064]

God is not an imaginary being.

[@johnkay8388]

Obviously...I'm alluding to people who do not have a strong testimony of that...

[@kristinrichmond8185]

Im so grateful for your Christ centered, faith promoting channel Greg.

[@shandrews]

Grateful for this conversation. Thank you

[@bighornbasin]

Every one of us has our burdens. These men carry theirs with amazing determination. So impressive. Massive respect to each of them.

[@royallee-bf1yw]

EXceLLenT PANEL❤Well done Greg ! Getting things shored-up at the LOCAL level, establishing some real bridges of love towards real understanding of these natural issues, issues that only exist here in these mortal bodies, is especially needed. I believe that Brother Sherinian will help immensely with all of this ! WELL DONE GReG 👍🏻

[@sharonchriswell8500]

Thank you men for sharing your story. God be with you til we meet one day!!

[@katherineshiver9428]

When I commented on the last video, I was thinking about the male now listed as female on church records because he is transgender. We should not condone things that aren’t truth and aligned with the gospel. I would love to drink coffee, smoke cigarettes, and even do drugs!!! But I don’t go around advertising and looking for understanding or empathy or for anyone to validate me. I think we all have our “sins or desires” that we have to refrain from acting on in order to be faithful to Christ and the gospel plan. Should I call myself a faithful druggie if I am not acting on it, I don’t think that would be helpful to myself or anyone. I just want to identify myself as a member of Christ’s church and belong to the House of Israel. Shouldn’t we identify with our covenants vs. our carnal desires, imho

[@iamanempoweredone6064]

That really happened?? Does the church recognize “transgender” behavior? I’m not sure I can believe this. Do you have references that I can follow up on? BTW, I am not transgender and never will be. But I find the subject curious.

[@bbqbros3648]

God first. Sexual attraction is but one aspect of marriage and life.

[@robynmills5534]

I have so much respect for all of you. I love that you are devoted to living your covenants. Great examples!

[@herbmason3204]

A recurring thought in my mind listening to these great guys: -This is their tendency, and the temptation they battle to learn to control. Although a complex topic, if simply defined we could say their moral crutch they have to contend with. Yet every honest LDS man or woman is in a similar boat, and not without their own sin. Again, going by simplified definitions here, be it any of the LGBTQ combinations via action or attractions, also thoughts, pornography, attitudes, inappropriate sense of humor, or even a lack of love towards ones spouse, all of us have at least one trial we deal with. Is one better of than another when comparing a similar degree of involvement with their trial? No. However humans tend to judge others moral struggles with more disdain than their own, unfortunately. And the opposite is true too, when we see the righteousness of another as more acceptable to to God than our own, both are wedges that separate us from the Spirit. Instead, perhaps we were honest with ourselves and sought to uplift and support those who also seek to grow closer to their Heavenly Father, in our fallen state, instead of climbing ontop of each other? Food for thought.

[@JessicaOrban3606]

"Don't judge me because my temptions are different than yours"

[@jessewilson7809]

I had the same thoughts. Especially tendencies regarding chastity

[@davidtorbenson4686]

One LGBTQ member explained it to me this way: A heterosexual single person can wake up every day and pray to meet someone she is attracted to - while she wakes up every day hoping she does NOT meet a person that she is naturally attracted to - and face a vision of, if faithful in this life - in the next life being in a marriage that, to them, holds no interest or attraction. I think we need to be careful with comparisons...

[@oleakokaubeam9314]

I appreciated this conversation/podcast, thank you all.

[@stevenhooper5008]

I'm thrilled to see faithful men who have turned to God through their faith in Christ and His redeeming love. I understand their struggle as Timber said his "carnal" desires. But I do want to say... isn't that what we all struggle with? My carnal desires while I'm straight still cause me internal struggles. Whether our carnal desires are sexual, lust for money, power, etc. The New Testament tells us if love is directed to the wrong thing, or the source of our love is not from God then we need to turn it away and bear our cross!

[@KippChurch-z1d]

Well said

[@45s262]

Thank you all for this. This is great!!

[@dcampbell374]

In my opinion it seems that there is almost a desperation to have roll models who are some how living gospel in spite of their sins and struggles. Here's a need flash....we are ALL doing our best to live the gospel in spite of our sins and struggles. The problem is that "the church" likes to idolize people who come forward with SSA. They are promoted by desert book, they do videos and spot lights. And then.... Heaven forbid they fall down and decide they can't continue to live the gospel. It's a dangerous game to play especially for our youth. We should be very careful who we promote as members of the church. We are all human and we all fall short most of us just don't have a public platform.

[@klotzhomestead8492]

I feel that way on so many levels of the church. No one should be put him on a pedestal of virtue and influence, we will all fall.

[@Not_so_greatScott]

Powerful! Thank you, my brothers in Christ. God bless you.

[@Jonnyb56]

This was amazing, I really enjoyed everyone’s perspectives. It is so important to treat all individuals as a child of God. Thank you to Tember, Craig, and Skyler, and Greg of course. This issue is so important and I am glad, truth seeking and covenant keeping Gay members are teaching and helping non-gay and gay member learn and understand the Gospel and how a gay individual can live up to their covenants. Thank you everyone

[@BlaineHeggie]

I love the conviction of these bretheren. The acuteness of their challenges exponentiates the effectiveness of their faith

[@AlbertoDeFeo]

This is an amazing videocast! I agree that local leaders and members need more understanding of how these saints who have same-sex attraction feel. More importantly, they need to have pure love for these people because Heavenly Father and Jesus have a perfect love for them as much as They have love for me and all of Their children. Greg, you are doing a wonderful job!

[@ranjanty]

Greg, when are you going to play us a tune on that guitar? Many of your audience would love to hear play.👍 Hope its not just a prop.

[@trishie818]

Such a personal issue. I really wish it was kept this way and discussed privately with bishops regarding redemption and how to proceed in keeping on the covenant path - just like other morality issues are rather than everyone being forced to listen to other’s morality / sexuality issues at large. Praying for all those struggling with their challenges whatever they may be.

[@caseyguccione5978]

Judgement is very vocal on the subject. And silently struggling isn’t helping. We find a way to reach out with support for other struggles such as addiction. Why should this be any different?

[@127AFS]

That's very much my thinking. For example, if someone was struggling with something like a pornography addiction, that should by and large their own personal business that shouldn't be confessed publicly. Even in a a group therapy or 12 step recovery meeting, (and I attended several with struggling members on my mission) it was always made clear that no one should be going into descriptive details about their sins and transgressions. That kind of conversation should be reserved for your bishop, your spouse, and most importantly, the Lord. You COULD argue that something like a word of wisdom challenge MIGHT be alluded to publicly in the right setting. But that is more appropriate because those types of sins are often observed in public anyway. Even then though, I would probably advise against making it your default to air your "dirty laundry" in public. In the case of chastity & sexual related sins and challenges, those typically happen behind closed doors, and should probably only be discussed with the appropriate individuals behind closed doors. When it comes to the public & social aspect of the Church, we should understand that we ALL have our own unique sets of "dirty laundry," but that airing those shouldn't be the focus of our worship. Everything in our church meetings should stay centered around learning the commandments and then strengthening each other on the general principles of utilizing the atonement to repent and resist temptation.

[@BookOfMormon4GenZ]

I disagree. There certainly are members of The Church who struggle with these issues. If they perchance watch this video, who knows but what they may be inspired by these men to keep their lives chaste.

[@trishie818]

@@BookOfMormon4GenZ this platform is appropriate because viewers have a choice to listen to content etc. I’m referring to church meetings, primary etc.

[@127AFS]

@@BookOfMormon4GenZ Like the original commenter just stated, my sentiments apply specifically to church meetings. Conversations like the one I watched here are fine on this platform. I'm just not sure it belongs at church.

[@klotzhomestead8492]

I can't help but feel so badly for the wife in these scenarios. To know that someone is not sexually attracted to them. To read the comments about a man who was gay and married a woman and yet was miserable. How is that fair to the wife? This is all about the men in this situation...And then there is all of the Gay men saying you are a gay man and yet you've been married for 40 plus years...Its like you can't let go of that identity and your family and wife are second to that identity. Its really sad. Its like if your husband was really into watching porn, but its against the gospel standards, but he tells everyone that what he REALLY wants to do is to watch watch porn, but he is such a good man that he resists and settles for just being a father and husband to get an eternal reward. The wife has to take the talk of him settling :/ That's how this feels.

[@CwicShow]

Sure, it's a tough situation either way. But it can be done by some. And you're not bringing up what they would be losing, to be a father and a husband and to build a family of their own. For the women, I will need to bring them on for another episode :).

[@klotzhomestead8492]

@@CwicShow I would love to see that. It would be wonderful to get their perspective.

[@CwicShow]

@@klotzhomestead8492 I'll see what I can put together.

[@mp112501]

Thank you for this episode! We need to hear this message.

[@CwicShow]

You're welcome. Agreed!

[@shireecox122]

Really good content! We all need to hear more of this instead of the other side. Thanks

[@crochetingaroundnewzealand]

Great to see a kiwi on your show!! I really enjoyed this. Opening my mind to acceptance within the church. I'm trying to learn more about the mormon LDS church ❤

[@CwicShow]

Checkout the videos on this channel. You will get both doctrinal and cultural viewpoints.

[@rolandsmith4394]

Salvation is about faith. Exaltation is about being like The Father. Elder Oaks said in clear terms that you cant "BE" unlike God and "BE" exalted. But I wholeheartedly support anyone in overcoming "being" ungodly. I celebrate these men in their quest.

[@jessewilson7809]

It is wonderful to hear from these men who have shown us that trusting the Lord does indeed bring happiness, even-or maybe especially-when it goes against one's natural inclinations. Chastity is a hard sale for everyone these days. @CwicShow thanks for the video

[@RamathRS]

The church handbook distinguishes the difference between same-sex attraction and homosexuality. We are all beset with our own challenges and tempations. The difference is between those who decide to follow Christ and his commandments and those who don't. I feel for those who struggle. I don't feel for those who would rather embrace Babylon.

[@bobhappy991]

Wit this logic of announcing our personal issues publicly, lets all wear shirts with our IQ's, so we can know how to recact, help and comfort to the slowest members.

[@CwicShow]

A ridiculous comment.

[@bobhappy991]

@@CwicShow it's seems ridiculous, but all this exposure to this gayness has been nothing but detrimental to them and society. There's a reason we don't all wear tags.

[@bobhappy991]

@@CwicShow its the same thing, no one had a choice of their IQ, or many other things not acceptable for average people, and the stats are in my favor, never has their been more confusion in the world by blasting their stories everywhere. this does not help. its what causes the down fall of the societies, laugh all you want.

[@CwicShow]

@@bobhappy991 I'm not laughing. If there was an ideology against low IQ individuals that was pulling them away from the church, then I would also talk directly to them about being faithful. This is about the social pressure to against these individuals to leave the church.

[@bobhappy991]

@@CwicShow there is an ideology against "slow" people, in fact it was so bad they stopped measuring it so you dont know. because its better you dont know! President Boyd K. Packer stated: True doctrine, understood, changes attitudes and behavior. The study of the doctrines of the gospel will improve behavior quicker than a study of behavior will improve behavior. . . . That is why we stress so forcefully the study of the doctrines of the gospel. if people just stay on the convent path nobody cares what you were born with and if these men kept their issues to themselves and maybe the bishop and even then he doesnt need to know unless you messed up. just like everyone else, if these men were in my ward and i didnt know they were whatever, guess what i couldnt hold anything against them because i didnt know but now, after they lay out their issue and make it public like a victim would, its no more special they any other issue, thats really difficult. imo and others who are willing to admit god gave us all issues to work on

[@cindymacferran331]

You have to check out Becket Cook. He is not LDS but he is a gay man who lived the gay lifestyle but then committed himself to Christianity and changed that lifestyle. His testimony, strength and story are amazing!!❤

[@rwhitehouse8806]

This discussion is so helpful at so many levels. As a heterosexual member of the church these thoughtful and courageous guests have opened my eyes to a much clearer understanding of what SSA members are facing. I'm feeling their thoughts and advice are inspirational. Long may you keep offering this.

[@PHans20]

Fantastic episode. Great to hear an inspiring and faithful message from these men!

[@RLDRemembrance]

I think something that's really important for LGBT people to discern is anxious attachment Juxtaposed unconditional love or love or the Holy Spirit. I think the tricky part is that until that happens there's notion is kind of like a looking glass without context. Until you feel true love joy or the Holy Spirit the intense anxious attachment to the same sex might be misappropriated as love or romantic love. From personal experience I think there's two really important things that you touched on and one is true intimate friendships with the same sex whether they are straight or same sex attracted. The reason why is because I have come to notice that same sex attracted males have usually emotionally avoidant fathers often in the toxic hustle and enmeshed mothers. So I kind of see it like a chemistry tube with too much red not enough blue and the output more purple and red then balanced as a medium. Because of this I see the same sex attraction conversation misappropriated from one of a discipline conversation. I wrote extensively about this on Twitter when I first join the church but if someone is attracted to a man who is a man they are usually attracted to the masculine attributes of a man usually associated with structure discipline and containment. By defacto this man would probably not act on their same sex attraction establishing therefore and all consuming cat and mouse game. But underneath that if we are selves become very disciplined work towards the body we want to achieve or drawn to In others as well as developing discipline in the little things anchoring thereafter a sense of self-trust, and overcoming self betrayal I think it inadvertently heals the same-sex attraction vacuum especially working with the Holy Spirit. The second prong I actually think his dietary, Long story short I was very spiritual before joining the church and would go on 48 hour fast one day I accidentally broke the fasts with eating cheese and immediately felt the spike of same-sex attraction and also within me something about it the correlation. I don't even think just hormonal I think something about the bacteria or something in it that creates this magnet-like situation. I know my body very well and it's very hard to explain this aspect but it's almost like a craving that feel synthetic to what you truly need or desire. Finally coming into the church after buying a house leaving the fund world going on a spiritual journey and now rebuilding my temporal values I realize I have a house to bake for just me, The labor of my works and feel selfish not to have kids and have all this for just me. Prior to joining the church I bought the house to host spiritual retreats like the new age KZbin community does, Long story short I think it's a question of joy discipline and the path of least resistance for the most productive and fulfilling life. I also think it's a path hard to convey unless you walked many of these aspects of it yourself. I think in this way the nature of Christ is a little bit more complicated and relevant to the times not in discipline or core principles or the covenant path but rather the way these things are taken on for our time and to convey the same healing the gamut of the present through our social memory complex. Acquiescence and pacifications are not love and this is not something unique for LGBT to understand This is as much a problem in straight heteronormative men. In large part because I don't think many men themselves know what love is, or are scared to let it in and the way I see the Mars to Mercury Melchizedek corridor from a 5D standpoint so to speak that that the emanation of the church in that one natural law it's temporarily embodies within the gamut of the elemental body of this plane. Ultimately love is a heart to heart connection not a heart to explicit connection, so all other elements can exist but part of the problem is that today we have emotionally avoidant men across the board and that within itself perpetuating this vacuum. When that is properly established the idea of violating that and moving from the heart to the lower centers feels like an unfathomable disrespect to that love but one wouldn't know that without cultivating that love in the first place.

[@sararampton654]

Such an insightful comment…this is true

[@RLDRemembrance]

@sararampton654 thank you so much beautiful soul! All my love your way!

[@simpleislovely1924]

Thank you so much for this discussion! I understand so much more. God Bless you! ♥️

[@lizzieempey2220]

What a wonderful and uplifting conversation. Thank you!

[@CwicShow]

Thanks for listening

[@vonsowards1297]

A love “craig’s iPad (2)” and his awesome lights decor!

[@confusedwhynot]

Thank you Bretnern for sharing. It is so important for all of us to sacrifice our will on the alter and turn our lives over to God. We are disciples of Christ and need to help point others to Christ. I want and desire all the blessings our Father in Heaven wants to bestow. I am sitting here thinking about my place in His kingdom, because my spouse and I are no longer together. My desires is for an eternal family, and my spouse is on a different path. I cannot follow him and feel peace.

[@michaelt.fernandez6846]

Thank You for this presentation. It should be a 5th Sunday lesson at church. It could even be a Saturday evening session at stake Conference.

[@geoffshelley2427]

I watched a video of a Christian woman who had lived the lifestyle and then came to Jesus. She said something rather insightful, the paraphrase is this our greatest troubles, griefs and sadnesses come from lies we believe about ourselves. Some are told to us or pushed on us from outside ourselves and some we hear from inside or we tell ourselves. Regardless they are not the truth. They do not describe who we really are.

[@dl1130]

I just read the church news this morning. It was announced a new seminary curriculum for 2024. They used the terminolog to help students achieve "their divine identity". I would have thought "Divine potential" would have been a better description. Just an interesting side note.

[@safrew1]

I noticed that as well.

[@oxfordbuckingham5841]

The lady that painted the rainbow picture of the Tree of Life said she didn't mean to make it refer to LGBT but something inside me tells me this is not true unless the CES were the ones who made the choice entirely on their own to use it in the manual. Understanding how controversial the "rainbow" image is in today's environment, the CES should have chosen a different image. And I agree with Tember that instead of promoting this kind of imaging OR messaging, we should be promoting the love of all men solely through the gospel of Jesus Christ, not man's gospel of re-invention.

[@germanslice]

Well actually the fruit of the tree of life is all pure white, its not all rainbow colored with 16 million different hues.

[@oxfordbuckingham5841]

@@germanslice Missing my point, but thank you for clarifying.

[@dstew3709]

Alternate big picture view I don't think many consider: we all deal with some form of sexual temptations (straight, gay, trans, etc), in that light I think it is easier to care for the individual while focusing the teaching more on what the doctrine is & what the options may look like for individuals to keep the commandments (these men show a couple of the options available) & focus less on how the specific temptation presents, it's not a sin to be tempted, only to act on those temptations, 1 Corin 10:13, Alma 13:28

[@hgdolder]

We are all in this together. Whether we struggle with same-sex attraction, or opposite-sex attraction, or any other weaknesses, we are here to help each other live the commandments to the best of our abilities, because that is the only way to have joy. People are not "gay" or "lesbian", and certainly not part of a "community". We are brothers and sisters trying to follow Jesus Christ back to our Father, where all our weaknesses will go away.

[@Gsp989]

Great comment.

[@jwbrown9240]

I like what you said about a superficial identity, that your relationship with Christ is more important and fulfilling than a superficial identity.

[@rach5491]

After listening to this great discussion, i downloaded skylar's book and started listening to it👍

[@vantablack7939]

I’m not gay, but I’m aro/ace. It’s been a definite challenge, especially with feelings of being not good enough, like I’m broken, like god doesn’t love me, etc. relating to my sexuality. But my sexuality doesn’t make me any less of a child of god, and I hope that I can continue to feel christs love through my life. I don’t know what me future holds in regards to a relationship. It’ll be difficult finding a partner, and I know that, but the church has been a blessing in my life :) and I hope it will continue to bless me and get me through this trial

[@mattwebb8234]

Since we date to marry...we don't need a bishop telling his flock that it is ok to date in a same sex environment. Thats another bishop that should receive correction or be removed from office.

[@ericmullen6905]

This is such a personal matter. The Savior is the ONLY person who can help us navigate the intricacies of our individual lives. He is the ONLY one who knows who we truly are and who we are to become. It is ONLY through our personal relationship with Him that the correct answers for our lives will come. As we seek HIS will in all things, the answers to our personal situation will come. As we follow His guidance, that is where we will find peace and personal fulfillment in this life. “He is the way, the truth, and the life…” Each individual is so different and we each need His guidance in our lives. He will lead us in the path of truth and life. The question is, are we seeking our answers from Him, or from somewhere else? I hope the answer to this question is ALWAYS JESUS CHRIST.

[@thomasmaughan4798]

" The Savior is the ONLY person who can help us navigate the intricacies of our individual lives." Maybe; but while you are waiting on him to give you revelation, many other wise and experienced people; man and women, can provide valuable advice and experience.

[@ericmullen6905]

Absolutely!

[@bbbarham6264]

As with most difficulties, there are a select few who can make brutal situations work, but the data is clear, for the majority of gay men striving for celibacy or marriage with the opposite sex, it leads to suicidal ideation and broken families. If you were told that your sincere desire to have a loving relationship with a spouse was sinful, and that the only “right” path for you was to be single your whole life and die alone, how would you feel? There’s a reason the church stopped having gay faithful figureheads like Charlie Bird; they all eventually end up leaving the church for a relationship.

[@brendaprice4581]

Very humble discussion ❤️thank you.

[@CwicShow]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@teresalane1004]

I enjoyed hearing from these men, but I need an interpreter for Craig. 😊 Unfortunately, I missed some of his comments either because of his accent or the volume going out. Help me understand Tember and Sky better, please. If they are gay how can they be attracted to females? When I was younger, we referred to this as bisexual and I thought that was different than being gay. Gay as only be attracted to males. I appreciated Craig's comments on the Celestial kingdom and where he sees himself there. Thanks for having these faithful saints on. It's a difficult subject for sure to grasp for some of us, and I really want to understand it better, which will help me to be more Christ like.

[@frankcastle5513]

Settling for identity x or y is very earthy. If one is to overcome this world can one essentially harden one's heart on an "identity"?

[@guytoe]

Romans 1:26-27: "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion." Leviticus 18:22: "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable." Jude 7 "Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire. Etc.

[@Gsp989]

The doctrine is crystal clear.

[@John-d9k5z]

We seem to be as Latterday Saints engaged in a different type of Conflict then the rest of Christianity. In that we know the plan, we understand Grace, you cannot keep doing those things and be blessed for it especially when The Holy Spirit has spoken.. And years ago someone showed me a video of what it is they do. It was definitely not Love. Can never unsee it.

[@edwardgabriel5281]

This was a great comment and you said it skillfully.

[@wendeerusson9815]

We must become truly converted to the gospel of Jesus Christ if we are to find the strength to separate ourselves from the natural man. Whatever your difficulties may be.

[@eileenholladay6603]

Really enjoyed this discussion, thank you all.

[@andrewreed4216]

Ive suffered with this since i was 4 years old, but continued to have great spiritual experiences all my life. Im now 44 and exhausted of asking for God's help in the matter. Not good enough. Ive now lost my chance to have a family and grow. God has never answer me in this matter, yet i have met Christ out of my body since i was 8 years old. Not happy. No other suggestions have worked that are in the comments. I gave up everything, but the current top 3 leaders chose to have careers instead of serve full-time missions... what did they give up? Im still active, but completely destroyed inside.

[@alexlindstrom555]

While only a small part of this discussion, I think Tember was right on about celibacy and how those pursuing that path still need same-sex intimacy (not sexual, dang it!!!). I’d say even heterosexual guys need guys. And women need women. I personally have been open to celibate partnership with a bro and supporting each other on the covenant path (and yes, I already know all the potential problems with that. Just view it as a form of friendship). I too feel concerned about who gets heralded as the spokespeople for those of us in the Church who happen to be LGB. I do think more options are available to us within the bounds the Lord has set. But we tend to get all swept into one group.

[@freedomfriday2.040]

There’s a reason it’s called General Conference, not Specific Conference. Well done to everyone here! Your courage and testimony to fight against the secular satanism is applauded 👏

[@RLDRemembrance]

I think the best way to communicate to LGBT for a loving message per the question on 46:43 is to make the simple statements of quote "we want to have a heart to heart connection with our LGBT brothers and sisters". I promise you that will be an earth-shattering statement and experience when it happens because from what I've seen most LGBT is trauma bonded so haven't actually experienced healthy loving heart to heart relationships with the same sex or otherwise.

[@bryanhaycock672]

We are taught that every person will be happy with what they are willing to receive.

[@lazerlorne2670]

That is true, but those who choose to live a life that is contrary to a Celestial kind of life will go through a lot of sadness before they obtain the happiness.

[@thomasmaughan4798]

Yes. D&C 88.

[@lefty24hrs]

I love how Tember is comfortable implying that Ben Schilaty may have "nefarious" intent. Such a great example of dialogue as community attempts to find their place in the church

[@lefty24hrs]

Also, it doesn't completely sound like the issue is "influencers" so much as people giving firesides, others like them receive inspiration from the Holy Ghost, and then Tember appears to disagree with their subsequent actions. Maybe he should take his grievances to God instead?

[@swampfaye]

I have a question... if a man lusts after a woman, he has committed adultery in his heart. Why would lusting after a man be different? In the church, marriage isn't about sex at all. It's a covenant. To attain eternal salvation, even a "gay" man needs to have a wife/ woman and be committed to her under covenant. Under that rubric, you are NOT gay. If you are a covenant keeper, you are not gay.

[@rolandsmith4394]

God's first commandment to man in mortality: multiply and replenish the Earth. That is only accomplished by procreation, sexual relations between a man and woman. It is NOT the same.

[@geoffshelley2427]

Yes! As Beckett Cook says the words "gay Christian" don't belong together. They are contradicting words. One should rather say formerly gay or repentant gay Christian. I don't say that I'm an "Anger-mania LDS". I have to control and repent of that frequently, but I don't identify myself that way.

[@AnnaBellaChannel]

Why should a straight women marry a man who is gay?

[@thomasmaughan4798]

"if a man lusts after a woman, he has committed adultery in his heart. Why would lusting after a man be different?" Sure, but what is the *penalty* for committing adultery in one's heart? There is no penalty. Also, for *adultery* to be possible, he must already be married (or the woman). A single man lusting after a woman seems to be a pre-requisite for marriage. Anyway, the implication is that having *desires* of any particular kind is not by itself a sin; but inappropriate desires might *lead* to sin if those desires are acted upon. "In the church, marriage isn't about sex at all. " Your mileage varies rather a lot. Review the law of chastity.

[@davidtorbenson4686]

I like your point - however, the church has officially evolved to the position that people can be "same -sex attracted" - though they take no position on the causes.... This positioning is quite different than 30 years ago

[@Gsp989]

Identifying as "gay" is not doctrinal and cedes territory to activists. We are sons and daughters of God. No one in the history of Christianity ever thought it was acceptable to identify in this way. God never uses this identifier in scriptures. Not once. Please see leaders' comments regarding how we should identify ourselves prior to the last few years. And, yes, kudos to all who are chaste in this fallen world.

[@payaj2815]

My perspective on people who have same-sex attraction is a very simple one. We all have trials and temptations that we have to deal with in life, some of them are self-induced and are consequences of the choices that you make; and some of them are the consequences of the choices that someone else has made; but you are no different. I think about people who are born with physical or mental struggles. They can’t run from those things. They have to deal with them every single day, why would you get to be any different then the rest of us. There are some things in life that you will never know the reason as to why it happened or why you have to deal with it. But I don’t doubt for a moment that there is not a purpose as to why, and you may not get the answer to that question tell you die. There are many lessons in life that are just hard won. I think in society we should try an experiment; why don’t we stop asking “why me” and just start praying for the strength to endure.

[@Elzzabeth]

This gives me hope for my boys who have love for the Savior but have problems with their sensuality. I will share this with them. I love them very much, and to me, they are and always will be my boys no matter what. I don't agree with their choice because of the emotional harm that it causes and the separation it forms from the Holy Spirit. I am appalled at all of the lies that the culture tells our children to bring them into it and then the shame and guilt and urging that now feel natural to them keep them away from GOD and those who love them. All I want is to have my family whole,and be able to love all my children I imagine this is how GOD feels too.

[@peggymcfarlandlcpc5745]

Since Elders Holland and Bednar have told us that there are no "gay" people in our Church, only sons and daughters of God, why don't we stop using the labels that the world uses? The world wants people to believe that being "gay" is permanent, inherent, like race and ethnicity. This is not scientifically true. Individual experiences with same sex attraction are very diverse and often fluid. The world says that it is discriminatory to ask "gay" people to be chaste. We need to use language that clearly rejects the world's messages and expresses God's truth: The men in this video are beloved sons of God who experience same sex attraction.

[@CwicShow]

I understand what they are saying, but you have to be able to communicate. Otherwise you end up just ignoring the issues.