Don't Upgrade Your Fixed Gear Hubs Before Watching This! | Suzue Pro Max Review

[@4specialist]

...also Mack Superlight Track Hubs can be special ordered directly from Mack...high or low flange...bearing options...color choices...custom engraving or striping available...lightest, most premium 7000 series aluminum track hub available...works of art🤩

[@brycec.4156]

Zach, You consistently overlook in your videos the fact that big and tall people’s component and bike choices are severely limited (I’m 6’5”, 270 lbs). For example, in your Fixie rundown you dissed Pure Cycles as overpriced, yet it is the only fixie mfgr on your list that makes a 64cm frame, so I bought one. Similarly, regarding hub selection, I am upgrading to a Phil Woods flip flop hub not for “fixie points”, but because it’s the only one I found that states a weight rating of at least 275 lbs (280 lbs for the Classic). Patronizing American manufacturing was a close second in my criteria.

[@cocoroo798]

My personal favorite has to be the Gran Compe short flange hubs. Smooth and aesthetically pleasing to use

[@event4216]

Don't they have aluminum nuts? Have seen this mentioned....No issues with them?

[@G_Ozare]

+1

[@HarryRay]

My wheels (purchased second hand on yahoo auction, built by blue lug here in Tokyo) use these. No issues. Pretty nice aesthetically (although, my build would be better with silver rather than the black I have currently)

[@cocoroo798]

@@event4216 nope they work just fine

[@B_COOPER]

@@event4216you only need about 30 nm of torque on axle nuts. Aluminum nuts probably much less.

[@jregulatori4672]

I have Suzue Pro Max's on multiple bikes with zero issues. One of my bikes was on a stand and my friend (non bike person) decided to spin the wheel not even hard because of the graphics. Swear that wheel spun for 10 min. So buttery smooth. First time riding a set I was convinced I accidentally put a larger cog on because I kept finding myself spinning faster not realizing I'm actually traveling faster. Now the hubs are on every bike.

[@mattf2247]

Having ridden a promax rear for a long while, a lot of the issues with the hubs is the fact that the rear is using a 3/8 (9.5mm) axle. I've unfortunately had mine bend because the quality of the axles that suzue provides is pretty poor, and while a wheelsmfg chromo axle is a nice upgrade, it doesn't solve the problem of the axle being undersized as compared to the typical 10mm rear track axle. That being said, with some effort, the best thing to do for a long term fix, is to swap the axle + locknuts to a 10x1, and get the appropriate bearings for the swap. Suzue uses 6001 bearings for a 9.5 (3/8) axle, and you'd need 16100 bearings if you wanted to put in a 10x1 axle, plus the appropriate lock nuts and spacers. Now aside from the decals, is it worth going through all that effort? No absolutely not.

[@glacialdrumlin]

these hubs have a 10x1 rear axle.

[@mattf2247]

​@@glacialdrumlin Well, that's a nice quality update from suzue at least. I've admittedly never run into a 10x1 on the promax, although I'm aware that they were using 10x1 on the carbon model.

[@Meccanico208]

It's a .5mm difference. That said I have replaced my rear axle. I've also replaced the bearings, once in the 12 years that I have owned them, but I ride the bike in Portland year round (it rains a lot)

[@heavyload75]

They have 10x1 both rear and front and they are short, cutting corners since sold to soma @@mattf2247

[@heavyload75]

I still remember emailing them , both the charlatans who make them(suzue) and the charlatans who distribute them (soma fabrications), asking for 2 replacement axles and cone nuts for 2 rear hubs that had the same problem after less than a month of riding (both from blue lug, now I see why they never brought them back in stock again)... After a very very very long time they responded, but they never did anything, maay they spent my hard earned money on medical bills, fookin charlatans... Tried to buy new axles with miche cones but they wouldn't fit their junk hubs...

[@emersoncardenas6899]

I've never had problems with my PWs made in Northern California, and laced at Sac's Bike Biz on Open Pros. My wheels have been riden since 2008. Hubs made in Northern California are some of the best made.

[@benjaminstevens4468]

Halo makes a HG splined fixed hub, the Halo Fix-G for approximately ~$100, a bit more with shipping, from the UK. You can get it splined/track threads, splined/FW, or splined/splined. I have one, married to an Absolute Black cog. It looks so dope! You can also adjust your chain line, with spacers on the splines, making for a fairly versatile fixed hub.

[@sketchy0078]

I’ve got Paul comp hubs on one of my fixed bikes but my other ride is running halos. The halo I brought as a wheel set and has done well over 20k miles and still run super smooth. FYI if your hunting for hubs I can totally recommend halo.

[@greengonzonz]

Hiya Zach. Unrelated to "hubs"... just built my first fixie on Sat (NZ). Been making up reasons to head out for unnecessary rides every day since. I can't stop grinning like a kid at Christmas. Living it

[@marvinx4519]

You have to counter the nuts on each side seperately to keep them in place. Do not use the nuts on the left and on the right side on the same time to adjuste the tightness. On each side there must be two nuts (excluding the nut which holds the Wheel in place) and you have to counter them. First on side then the next one. You might use some loctite to keep them in place, but usually they stay where they have to if you counter them like i said. Greeting from Germany.

[@electrocit673]

this plus what Bebo says, worst case senarion (happened to me in the 80's on BMX) you can always replace the spacer to allow an extra bolt and that will never loosen, but it would also be redundant as you only need two nuts to to properly lock.

[@christianwparker]

Video synopsis: Reviewer hurts the hub by backing out cones and not locking down the locknuts repeatedly. Then reviewer concludes the hub has “ bad hardware “ and lacks durability. All it shows is the review’s lack of understanding of how loose ball bearing hubs work while at the same time offering strong opinions on a subject he doesn’t understand.

[@dachande1797]

@@christianwparker this one made me giggle. I would think the reviewer as someone not to read the comments on their own video either. The strong opinions will remain strong unfortunately due to the lack of knowledge. All I know is I sleep well at night knowing my hubs spin beautifully 👌

[@simondoutre6225]

@@christianwparker All the gear but NO IDEA hehe. I would be so embarrassed to talk about something I knew dicks about. Like he doesn't think smarter/older/experience{der} peeeps will watch and cringe... At the same time I kinda respect that he DGAF... lol

[@joogonetime9328]

Hi ! I’ve been having these issues with the suzues are you saying I should not only tighten the normal nut as always but also the one opposite to it ? Sorry I’m a little confused thanks !

[@moshdee456]

I appreciate this kind of review. There's a lot of pressure toward aesthetics

[@mikehembree7973]

Just wanted to say that if you look hard online there are deals to be had on the more expensive hubs. Got some Phils brand new a year or two ago for around $300...

[@robotjonjoe]

I agree. I got my Phil Woods for $120. They were already laced to a wheel set with the same spoke count as my original wheelset

[@MetalPanic]

I converted a disc brake front hub from a MTB to rear fixed,with bolt lock cog. Now i feel safe :)

[@event4216]

Yeah, you are. Some people will discover supply of those MTB front hubs with strong axle is while it lasts as Shimano has stopped production.

[@event4216]

@Bebo There's obscure Novatec hub 166SBT with DB mount, not sure if drillings allow to use any cog if such type or only Novatec made (from 16T up). These are pretty rare in our woods.

[@event4216]

@Bebo Without skidding which stresses threads a lot and can undo lock ring, I guess, there's no big trouble to run generic cog and lock ring. Just less round, no bling or points. I wonder if on track anyone has lost cog or LR...can't see how, even if tightened not up to standards.

[@welovecheshirecats4557]

I had the same issue with my Raleigh Grifter in 1982. Basically do your wheels up a tad loose, then undo the inner preload nut back out onto the inside of the drop out while tightening the outer track nut. A couple of saw cut on the nuts and clean the paint off the inside of the drop out will help. Alternatively get some hubs that aren't a Grifter based design!🤣

[@Panda_trax]

So cool that you’re so honest!

[@nyohaku]

De stickered my Suzue (sue-zoo-eh) from the get-go for the retro look I was after. The 3/8 inch axle has a weird pitch which confused several mechanics. Ultimately I put on higher quality axles and pressed in Phil Woods bearings. As long as you keep an eye on them they are fine. The bike gets compliments all the time and the ride is silky.

[@daverinker]

The Pro max let me down, in the same way, might be me? 36h, uber heavy and servicing was😢 when I sold a surly steamroller that wheelset with SPM was north of the frame! And thankfully didn’t build or invest myself. Mack and Paul are great, also the All-City standard 130 was a great experience building a rear wheel for a conversion.

[@LonghairAirsoft]

I used plumbers tape on those nuts to keep them from moving. you could also probably use locktite.

[@zarlan_]

ngl, the regular wabi wheels, not the lightweight ones, are actually my favorite set of wheels

[@galenkehler]

Buy some novatec hubs, and some sparkle sticker sheet stock from Walmart. Cut circles, stick on, and you've got the same thing for half the price, and proper axles

[@roguecode2354]

the White Industries should be a good choice. I usually get Paul's

[@glacialdrumlin]

i have these hubs and ride them daily, never had an issue like this. should always check that the 15mm and 17mm are tightened together on each side of the hub. the adjustment being made at 0:10 of this video with two cone wrenches is suspect. This type of adjustment is fine in a pinch but most likely the cause of your problem.

[@heavyload75]

Yeah, doesn't change the fact that they are junk hubs.

[@bora01vr6]

I’ve used all sorts of hubs on my fixed gears to my mountain bikes . Chris king, formula,Suzu, soma so max, novatec , dt Swiss, cheap quando. The cheap quando absolutely sucked , but I’ve never noticed a difference between a formula hub and a fancy Chris king or promax in terms of smoothness. If you’re running a geared bike however, there are other factors like hub engagement that you’re paying for.

[@event4216]

Yeah, freewheel is a big thing - simple mechanically, complex to seal properly and keep it strong serving to people who want things be lighter than they should be.

[@mikebird5148]

Absolutely love my PW's!

[@theodoreguntoro]

Suzue was sold to an American company, likely to Soma as all the links on the Suzue website link to Soma. So you can't really call Suzue a Japanese manufacturer anymore, and neither can you call Suzue Promax a Japanese hub unless it's NJS stamped or from before their reprint or reintroduction. They're likely made in Taiwan but may still have Japanese-made bearings.

[@Meccanico208]

The NJS Promax is loose-ball, as required by NJS standards. The sealed ProMax was never NJS stamped.

[@theodoreguntoro]

@@Meccanico208 Okay? NJS Promax is no longer being produced and the current production with the sealed bearings have been produced post sale of the Suzue brand. If the brand is no longer Japanese owned and for the most part produced in Japan, I don't think you can continue calling them Japanese. Especially since Suzue started selling an aliexpress crankset with Suzue branding

[@Meccanico208]

@Bebo Too lazy? I've replaced the bearings and the rear axle in the 12 years I've had them. I've also replaced the rims because of a worn out brake track. Do you even build wheels bro?

[@mj897]

@@theodoreguntoro I was surprised retrogression stock them. They look cheap

[@padfoot3770]

I'm a filipino and I'm using a 20/24 high flange ARROW HUBS. Cost around 35-40 dollars. Since 2019 I replaced only 2 pair of sealed bearings (front and rear).

[@greatmouflon]

I have ridden my dura aces for a year now, in all kinds of weather, and I have yet to feel the need to open them. Personnally I love quality loose ball bearing. The tolerances are so precise that I don't really see a sealed bearing outlasting them. Plus you don't need special tools to pop the bearing out and press a new ones in. Which is the biggest plus . Working on a loose ball bearing to perfection is actually my favorite maintenance to Do. I have loose ball headset and loose ball BB for that matter. But if I'd had only one component to have loose ball... Would be the hubs. Remember, all Shimano and Campagnolo hubs, and no just the track one, are loose ball. Do you see people complaining? Nah. They usually don't even notice. I could get you, especially in Sacramentos wether, that a well packed dura ace would last you at least one year before it would even be a good idea to maintain... Two years if you want to be lazy.

[@TatamiDisco]

Worked as a NYC bike messenger for 3 years on DA cup and cone bearing track hubs. Over 30000 miles and still no issues riding in all kinds of weather. Hands down the best hubs I've ever owned.

[@event4216]

I've watched some guy on YT who bought Suzue hubs to discover they were cartridge bearing hubs. He sold them and tracked down NOS loose ball Suzue hubs. This is what I call dedication.

[@event4216]

@Bebo Bikes don't really need precision parts necessary in aircraft or space applications. Low speed rotation without real load, about anything would work. Cyclists just love to pay $$$ for that magic silver bullet.

[@mom_im_losing_it]

@@event4216 facts

[@mom_im_losing_it]

Loose is the way to go I put over 10,000 miles a month on mine I only need to repack them every 4 months or so if you know what you are doing they will last a lifetime.

[@addvurtbikes]

Is that trailer park boys music in the background? Sounds like a Japanese hotel lobby version of it, but still dope!

[@markuskorn4829]

Just did work on my rear surly hub last time I did work on it was a while ago.

[@bavarianhero]

Origin8 works great, I still have mine since 2010.

[@jackand100others3]

Yeah I keep telling my coworker that one turn off of the campagnolo track wheels is the ball bearing hub, they just suck overall, I would rather it have seal instead

[@svgs650r]

Well for all their shortcomings you’d be money ahead just buying the Dura-Ace hubs

[@keithchang8566]

time to get that 32 spoke black novatec hub in the rear to get that true fixie mismatched wheelset look

[@DrGIzmoBRad]

One thing that can be done w/ the pro max hubs is that the nuts can be sanded or bead blasted to roughen the surfaces to grip better.

[@cccpkingu]

What is wrong with locktite?

[@DrGIzmoBRad]

@@cccpkingu loctite binds at the threads ... having friction at the surface of the axle nuts lock in the nut position still allowing for fine adjustment of the axel bearing compression.

[@nathanielkhoom6043]

That's as I run Surly hubs. Built the back wheel in March 2007, replaced the rim as I wore through the brake track (I ran it as a single speed back then) and only got round to replacing the bearings February this year. There's going to be over 15000miles on that hub...... At least now I know it is almost impossible to find the bearings for next time I need to do the job, at least here in the UK.

[@simplexicated]

They not just standard cartridge bearings in surly hubs? I've replaced them in loads of hubs and they're usually 6000 rs. I use SKF 6000 2RS Stainless Steel Bearing (10mm x 26mm x 8mm ) made in Japan.

[@event4216]

@@simplexicated Surly mentions they use 6901 (12x24x6) bearings. I've tried to read through science papers explaining how bearings with smaller balls distribute load better to last, but assuming they cost eur16 a piece they already are suspect. Although owners don't complain about bearing and praise Surly hubs. For sure they still are better value than Suzue sticker hubs.

[@nathanielkhoom6043]

As bebo says, they are 7901, but you can use 6901, the only difference being 7901 is an angular contact bearing. The 6901 is a standard bearing and much simpler.

[@Gravelmisfit_]

Same for me man front wheel was perfect. The rear had to be rebuilt. I have the same hubs laced to the same rims just black.

[@mj897]

Even halo are amazing, my aero track wheelset have provided years of smooth trouble free maintenance free years

[@G_Ozare]

Forumula/Novatechs for me. I rather spend the money on quality hoops and parts.🤙🏼

[@sonymicronin]

I gotta novatech front and formula rear lol

[@event4216]

Suzue should sell replacement sticker for $50/set of two. People are willing to pay premium for stickers - why not take their money.

[@Meccanico208]

I would 100% buy some, I took mine off for theft deterrent but realistically the bike is never out of my sight.

[@polochinchinlin9111]

Interesting, in my case about 2 years ago I bought Dura Ace Shimano 36h Fixed/Fixed, I wanted something quality so I was direct with what that entails (price) and it was great, meanwhile on the front I have a cheap bearing hub sealed. I recently got the Dura Ace front, and when mounting it I took the opportunity to maintain the rear and oh surprise, the track where the bearings go was pitted (I had that suspicion since lately I have felt that the pedaling goes with a little 'friction', which generates more fatigue in the legs) I suppose because of the water when it rains and it was a disappointment, in the end I think it was that or maybe the conditions of the streets or it requires maintenance more often, for the moment I will have to buy a cheap one from sealed bearing and that is also Fixed/Fixed named POLSO, I don't know what to expect, while I raise money to buy a Shimano for example.

[@grindeyyyyy]

I’ve got halo tk hubs, they’ve been hammered

[@danthegreat-4851]

novetech never disappoint me for 10 yrs.

[@MrJasonodonnell]

Have had two white industries hubsets, those splines look like a step forward but come loose far to easy, and there sprockets are pricey. Some say they creak but I never had any of that carry on.

[@michaelwalters7554]

I still use loose ball hubs and lube them every year. Yes they are more maintenance but if you over grease the bearings to to the point they force the extra grease out that is unneeded when you set up using your cone nut wrenches to tension bearings probably, the extra grease that comes out thus your bearings are full of grease. And look up bmx nuts.

[@michaelwalters7554]

I use Mobil 1 or royal purple grease both are synthetic grease ,like the bike man for you says don't skimp on the grease. The bike man for you is a old bike KZbin channel about bike repair.

[@event4216]

They say too much grease makes balls to slide instead of rolling which is proper way they work. Uneven wear is even worse than drag.

[@michaelwalters7554]

I live on the gulf coast and the salt air and conditions will nuke a bike, penscola area and I have seen so many hubs and bottom brackets just shot from lack of grease,it will come out Anyway some how and have not had a problem with what it did.i do it on my bike there is no problem with it. Infact the headset and bottom bracket is original to the bike and I pack the wheel bearings every year, the bike its a 1963 Schwinn varsity, I take care of my heaviest light weight bike.

[@michaelwalters7554]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/oKbPl5R6ZcZkeJI , his channel goes after other maintenance also if you watch his other videos.

[@chiefscotthoffman5237]

Wishing everyone a merry Christmas!

[@TheBicycleCellar]

Just grab a proper sharp file, add some texture to the adjuster nut, locknut and any washers or spacers and send it!

[@mom_im_losing_it]

I use loose ball bearing hubs they are the most reliable I don’t like sealed bearings they fail and you need a bearing press to change them. But it’s my personal preference.

[@miatomi]

Modern quality sealed bearings are at least a million times more reliable.

[@simplexicated]

I'm not sure if this comment is a troll but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's not. You do not need a press and cartridge bearings are objectively more reliable. You can just drive bearings out with a hammer and press them back in with the axel see below: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jGrcm6Nvq52oj8U If you like loose you do you, but they're certainly not more reliable.

[@mom_im_losing_it]

You kids need a new hobby they’re most definitely more reliable yeah you need clean and repack them just like the bottom bracket I feel you guy you can just use a hammer but the proper way is to press the sealed bearing but it does damage them. I’ve had my loose bearing hubs for 20 years now and the only issue is just having to repack them and adjust all my components I use are old school never had a issue. I get the low maintenance with sealed bearings but I’m old school my ride is smooth as butter from headset to bottom bracket and hubs they never let me down.

[@mom_im_losing_it]

@Bebo I ride 50 miles a day and you just don’t know how to maintain or adjust them calm you self. Honestly you talk to people to their face like the way you talk on hear. Choose your words kido

[@mom_im_losing_it]

@Bebo wow now your pulling that card I 44 and I’ve been building wheel for 20+ years I feel you are just trying to make your point now. I prefer loose bearing hubs and it will never change and you obviously need to find a new profession sorry but not sorry.

[@uliej23611]

I had to swap out the track nuts for something smaller, as you can see they barely bight onto the threads

[@event4216]

Do hubs with hex bolts bite dropouts enough to not slide? How far nuts are tradition? I see Zach used wheels with such hubs and never complained.

[@markjesspinebremolacio9003]

Are Suzue Promax HF Dead stock already? Because I have 2Pairs of of it 36Holes

[@Ascendingroad]

Thanks for the info. I think I’ll be looking into phil wood hubs instead. Have you / or anyone you know had any experience with phil hubs?

[@Freightlinerbob]

6:35, looks like there isn’t a lock nut incorporated into the design. Form over function?

[@flynnstone3580]

I've always pumped my stock hubs full of white Lithium grease and never have any problems.

[@s4700]

Can i change my hub from low to high flange? Or i need to change my spokes too when changing it from low to high??

[@Flashback_Jack]

Damn, I have one of these that I haven't stitched to a wheel yet.

[@123-p1u]

The axle must go in a axle vise when your tightening the cones

[@cassidyrabong6608]

Hi, I am from Sarawak. Any advice for a suitable fixie frame for height 168cm. I really appreciate your response.

[@zakidelic4506]

what was the tool that was used to tighten the lockring nuts on rear hub

[@heavyload75]

Wished I've seen sooner this video, defore buying these junk hubs.

[@sonymicronin]

Dude what? I had the same exact problem. The front wheel never had any or extremely buttery smooth it was so promising. But then the rear would get constantly tightened for seemingly no reason and it would make the ride so trash. Seriously disappointing.

[@Jaysee2164]

I’ve had dt Swiss laced to h plus sons which honestly felt no different at all to some $300 miche pistards

[@mattvanderwalt6220]

Chain tugs?

[@woebegone5086]

Suzue is literally commiting Seppuku lmao

[@richsaenz01]

Suzue is 3 syllables. 0 fixie points for mispronunciation ;)

[@squidbeard492]

I already upgraded to a coaster brake hub. Talk about"Fixie" points 🤣

[@event4216]

For slow ridding without much braking coaster hub could work well enough. My mom's bike had a coaster brake, she never complained.

[@TatamiDisco]

This happened when Suzue switched their manufacturing from Japan to Taiwan. All the new Suzue stuff is made in Taiwan. The original NJS Suzue promax is the best one to have. BTW it's pronounced Su-zu-aye.

[@Meccanico208]

My hubs are 12-13 years old and have the same issue. But realistically any sealed hub that doesn't have a shouldered axle is going to do this. You have to make sure the bearings aren't binding and the cone nuts are tight when you have the wheel off. IMO you should be checking this anyhow, just like you would with loose-ball hubs.

[@matthewbrown99]

Get Phil wood hubs they are the best plus please do a KZbin video about them

[@NAHfahQ]

Why did you replace the Apollo chainring? Just wanted an upgrade, or did you actually wear it out? I have an Apollo too, so I'm just genuinely curious, especially since I've been eyeing up Aaron chainrings too... did it make a difference? Smoother? Quieter?

[@mortlow6688]

Mack hubs are nice...

[@Altimis]

Holographic decal looks off center! that's annoyed me XD

[@sleepingslightly]

i got the black pair but haven't put em on yet. 🛑🦍✊🥜

[@tstodgell]

There are 3 syllables in Suzue. Minus one milllion fixie points for every time you said "SoO zOo" Zach, wtf is that how people speak in Sacramento these days?

[@gabbabrasil]

There's a reason counter nuts are called counter nuts....

[@Meccanico208]

Dude get yourself some cone wrenches and learn how to use them! I usually check/adjust them when I have the wheel off. They "tighten" because the axles are not shouldered.

[@B_COOPER]

Lower spoke count does not make a wheel stronger and lighter….

[@cccpkingu]

Does this happen to the Japanese-made Pro max? I suspect not. Otherwise you might want to make it "New sealed Suzue Pro Max review"

[@stuartyates6916]

Dia Compe Gran Compe Pros.......enough said

[@carlosgarcia5362]

Zach, if you look closely at the hub you need to tighten the cone nut (rides against the bearings) against the the knurled nut to lock the position on the axle. look at the darker nut on the inside of the hub and you'll see the flat sections you'll need to put your flat open end wrench on to hold it in place while you tighten the knurled nut against it. look at this photo to see the interior nut. www.suzueltd.com/uploads/1/3/8/0/13808747/suzue-hub-promax-large_orig.jpg