DON'T Use a Dragon Instead Use This D&D Monster

Dragon Bagons; CR10 dragon dice bags on KickStarter- goo.gl/QKkQEU
Nerdarchy the News Letter- nerdarchynewsle...
DON'T Use a Dragon Instead Use This D&D Monster
Our monster swap series seems to be pretty popular with plenty of people wanting to way in on what monsters to replace. Fortunately for us Dungeons and Dragons has never had a shortage of monsters and creatures to bring against the player characters in your campaign or world.
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[@riastradh]

"Dragons are solo monsters" *Matt Mercer cackling in the distance*

[@icspps]

Celtic Commando He put the Dragons in Dungeons and Dragons... 4 of them... at the same time...

[@comicsgeek3729]

icspps 4 Ancient ones

[@rowantatun5473]

@@icspps Try the Well of Dragons on for size.

[@C2daORRUPT]

Dungeons & use this monster instead

[@Valsorayu]

Dungeons and Great Weapon's Master...

[@DoubleBarreledTiger]

Actually, I find dragons very relatable. However, it would be fair to mention that I am actually a giant lizard monster.

[@The_Gelatinman]

Understandable

[@sabliath9148]

Another simple Idea: instead of replacing the dragon in your adventure with another type of creature, have the dragon in your adventure be of a different alignment than expected. For instance, have a CG Red Dragon (There's no rule against it) which rules over a region, not as a cruel master, but rather as a benevolent force. You could even have it be the main quest-giver for the party, albeit through a intermediary until the dragon knew these adventurers could be trusted.

[@NotTooShabbyGames]

The head of the adventuring guild in my game is a shape shifting gold dragon. The players often turn to him for help and advice because he is a.) their boss and b.) a few thousand years older than the oldest member of the party

[@austaryxthelastofthesane3870]

Or you can instead use a cleric, some good rolls and some begging to the dm and adopt a red dragon hatchling. We managed to change its alignment permanently when it began physically worshiping the god of sunlight with our cleric, which may or may not have required magical persuasion.

[@keatondejager]

What about a "don't use dungeons do this"? A lot of DMs as I have noticed over use the name of the game thinking they are being smart. Everyone has played a dungeon, figure out more campaign ideas. Im not talking about you at Nerdarchy I mean general DMs. You guys are awesome

[@y2a1979]

We never finished the campaign, but one of the games I ran for my brothers party started in the dungeon levels under a castle, which would eventually have led to them gathering enough gear and experience in the lower levels to face off with the lord of the keep. I forget what my plan was for him, but I think he was going to be a vampire, or something along those lines. I was planning for the party to go from 1st level to about 6th level by the time they went from the first dungeon floor to the last battle in the keep.

[@nvfury13]

Keaton de Jager Use a ruin, use a city, use a tower that has different levels that are actually in different planes using the properties of each plane to make it unique, use an airship/flying fortress, run a wilderness exploration campaign.

[@malachi9821]

Make a zombie-esque scenario where the players are trapped by monsters in a house and need to figure out an escape route while fortifying the house and staving off the zombies/monsters/leaders minions. Give the doors and windows hp so they can be attacked. Small setting but numerous possibilities. Make bpards nails and hammers scarce so the players have to be resourceful. Just be careful because instead of being a sandbox scenario this could be pretty restrictive.

[@dragonboyjgh]

See, I'm the other way around, I don't think I've ever once been in a proper dungeon and would kill to get one cause I love the puzzle-solving aspect.

[@gunnerboy3213]

You could put a twist on your Dragons like in the witcher series. The ancient dragons have the ability to shap shift. Most of them spend a large portion of their lives in human form. They are fierce and charismatic, and make great leaders. Some of them stay together, but most travel the world for a few hundred years then find a spot to call home. Although a small portion spend most their lives in Dragon form, and live like most dragons under a mountain with their hoard. However the other portion only revert to Dragon form when shit hits the fan in the upmost way.

[@DatcleanMochaJo]

Kind of like the gold dragon in the books, that Geralt met? Yeah that is good inspiration.

[@theAlchemyst11]

That's actually pretty close to dragons in modern day DnD, dragons are usually fairly powerful sorcerers and are capable of taking human forms...and it is actually fairly common for the good natured metallic dragons to do so, and even sire a child with humanoid creatures-that's actually a major point behind one of the possible sorcerer configurations in 5th edition and the dragon disciple prestige class for 3rd edition. (not sure about advanced or editions 1-2, might be the same thing)

[@nvfury13]

Gunner Boy321 Many dragons have had a tendency to do this throughout D&D editions; Silver, Gold, Red, and Blue most often. Though Greens living among forest races is almost as common.

[@angelemmanuelperezmuniz1474]

Gunner Boy321 you reminded me a game my brother used to play. Is called "Radiata Stories" and the dragons there are shape shifters.

[@Mr263882]

Silver dragons are almost always in human form and they collect humanoid friends instead of gold. I ran a corrupted silver dracolich who collects anyone who dies withen 50 miles of her mountain as an undead she raises.

[@AlluMan96]

To me, I couldn't replace a Dragon. If I want a Dragon, I want something specific. In my mind, each monster has an archetype in my head. Whenever I wanna use a thing, I'll use it for this specific thing. To me, a Dragon represents; *The Monarch of the lonely mountains.* An iron-fisted ruler, who lords over his Kobold and Half-Dragon subjects with heavy authority. They are stone-cold and self-centered, but a party can reach a reasonable conclusion with one, provided you're ready for some favors and errands to be run. *The Smaug.* Just a real scrooge. A grumpy loner that hoards his goods and doesn't let anyone in. Hostile to guests, yet has a soft-spot for flattery and tribute. Someone who carries grudges and takes action when it feels threatened, but will mostly just stay where it is, nearby society needing to live their ways around having to ever deal with the beast. *Natural enemy of the Beholder.* Beholder and Dragon are 2 sides of the same coin to me. Both are embodied by their greed and vanity. However, whereas the Dragon shows reason and even a bit of dignity over what it commands, the Beholder is an underhanded, slimy supremist, who'd rather all races in the world bow to their will. Beholders hold a hatred towards Dragons more fierce than the greatest storms, because they are the only ones that dare to deny them and have the power to retaliate.

[@kylestanley7843]

I like to consider giants to ne the antithesis to dragons, considering a large part of giant lore revolves around the giant/dragon war. Hell, Rocs and Behirs were created by Annam and storm giants, respectively, for the sole purpose of fighting dragons. Their hatred for each other runs deep.

[@kyleellis9177]

I find Dragons are underused in my campaigns.

[@alpharabbit2353]

I find dragons are overused in all the things

[@kyleellis9177]

i agree stero typical dragons are over used. but in my settings i have dragons were each is based of a different dinasaur. the blue tricera headed ones are my favorite. to avoid the dragon boob issue they are also a single sex species. it really comes down to using them differently and im a little ashamed of myself for not breaking the mold with dragons as much as i wish i had.

[@Valsorayu]

I went against stereotype with how I used dragons by them having a special soul (my games are quite focused on stuff to do with soul) as such a cat could be a dragon however still call upon great power and wisdom. Their common attribute is eyes that glow in the dark and a discolouration of the blood. note: Think JoJo stands.

[@reachcole514]

I'm now 5 months into my campaign and they have only witnessed a small skirmish between tiamut and bahamut. Never had to fight a dragon yet.

[@Sabotender]

another good point with the devil/demon/angel thing is: Similar to dragons, you can have "humans" affected by them, with dragons you have Draconic sorcerers, and plenty of dragon cults. With Devils, Demons and Angels, you have Tieflings and Aasimar, and more than enough cults. These all make good NPCs and hooks early in the story :)

[@shadowgear7032]

But but but, what about Dragons

[@NathanRiggins]

Don Stick and swords !

[@shadowgear7032]

Nathan Riggins interesting

[@KheptlaxaXonu]

Don Stick No no. Like this. MACHICOLATIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONS!!!

[@fezmaster696]

You put me machicolations on them... Interesting...

[@angelemmanuelperezmuniz1474]

Wait! Machicolations in dragons so we can end them rightly? That's brilliant!

[@gambent6853]

I don't use Dragons enough to merit switching them out for something else, lol! My only concern is making sure that the Dragon gets the proper respect and awe he deserves.

[@Bolshoi333]

Honestly, I think that might even be part of it. Even if they don't show up much in your specific game, dragons have a built-in expectation. So using a different monster in place of a dragon will keep and air of uncertainty and awe that might be more natural.

[@gambent6853]

A fair point. I definitely see how a variety of different threats, in place of your usual dragon, could make the game more diverse and exciting, since your players may not know what to expect.

[@yurisghost9107]

Crown Royal makes the best dice bags.

[@xylantexodus9706]

Dragon horde got you down? Tired of giving you players gold and swords? Try the all new ARTIFICER DRAGON! Technology beyond your world. Laser scopes, staple guns and anti-matter generators! Wanna mess with your players? Describe it as their character would truly see it. 'A window mounted in a metal box' 'a black tube with glass on either end' 'an egg shaped metal container three times the height of a man, with glowing lights on the side'

[@sertaki]

And the dragon itself is just a really well-crafted lifelike mecha from space!

[@Nerdarchy]

Help Support Nerdarchy by Shopping at YOUR Favorites Places on the Internet. Just use these links and shop as usual. Nothing changes for you- Amazon- amzn.to/2jf0boA Nerdarchy the Store- goo.gl/M4YZEQ Drive Thru RPG- goo.gl/6nf5zh Easy Roller Dice- goo.gl/1n0M1r D&D and Think Geek Gear- goo.gl/LZAV5z

[@Damnationization]

Not very good. Giants are kind of boring a demon is ok. I thought you would just change the appearance of the dragon. It could be a massive strange looking demonic creature, kind of like the Balrog. With dragon states/abilities. :)

[@patrickkeller2193]

While you were talking I though GIANTS! About two seconds before you said it. Great preparation and lead up. They really are the obvious choice. Also well donethanks for mentioning the divine and the diabolic, more than a replacement they are even a step up in complexity and they are often overlooked.

[@lucielm]

My fix for a dragon horde. Simple, make the dragon have several layers in it's territory. Each locked way so only the dragon knows how to get in or such. Then only finding the dragon do you find a part of the horde. Each kept safe and secured like little vaults and well guarded. The older the dragon and the larger the territory, the more likely it'll simply have give little reason to the players to bother it less it wishes to actively go after it. A red dragon terrorizing a landscape? Mostlikely a young one. Maybe just reaching adulthood so has a small horde of gold. A single lair. Though an ancient one? It probably knows well enough the lay of the land in it's territory to almost go unnoticed except by those wise enough to find traces. It rarely needs to threaten a kingdom as it's very presence is the threat. An ancient red dragon would only destroy a kingdom simply because someone went after it first. It's old and wise enough to know what destroying a kingdom will bring upon it. Not only heroes but possibly rival dragons or enemy dragons like Golden ones.

[@anderslundtoft2315]

I once used a witch Covent. That worked out so Well and The witch is so underarted!

[@gexianhen]

i would change my dragons for SPHYNXS -

[@clericofchaos1]

well, sticking with the theme I've been using since the start of these videos, undead solve everything. so don't use a dragon, use a dracolich :D ...or just give the dragons undead fortitude and make them zombie dragons.

[@swaghauler8334]

A D&D party encountering a typical dragon during play... "WOW, a [insert color here] Dragon guys, MAN UP and let's get to it! A RuneQuest part encountering a typical dragon during play... "A dragon??!! For the love of [insert Deity here], F***ING RUN!!" (and the party actually discusses "sacrificing" the slowest character to ensure their escape).

[@fhuber7507]

There's always a bigger dragon.... - Bahamut

[@williethenerfherder2193]

Yep like those crazy colossal dragons that can use their scales to hide themselves in plain sight. Also those serpentine dragons that let themselves fly with magic, and have a magic missile style breath.

[@thankukorea]

I liked the comment about Dragons and expectations. I think Giants. The range of expectations are more similar. I think most people/Players dont know what to expect with Demons but with Giants the range might be great but similar to Dragons.

[@thanotosomega]

Plus you can punish people for not using knowledge checks, imagine the looks on the player's faces when instead of charging them with a weapon the leader of the frost giant horde uses a quickened prismatic spray to open the fight, and your just like So yeah turns out the leader is a sorcerer have fun guys,

[@revshad4226]

But what about the dragons?

[@Hektols]

Just add the half-dragon template to other monsters. A half-dragon giant would have all the inmunities of the dragon, it's senses, flight, better natural armor, claws, bite attack, improved stats and a daily use of a breath weapon but still fight like a giant. The half-dragon would have the mentality of it's giant parent with some traits from the dragon parent like gathering treasure and would be the perfect final boss against a giant band.

[@kylestanley7843]

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who thought of this. Monstrosities, beasts and humanoids can also adopt the half dragon template, giving you even more flexibility. You can make a very Moby Dick type scenario by taking a whale or giant shark and giving it the half dragon template with a bronze dragon. You could call it "the bronze whale" and speak of it like legend. Wonderful low to mid level encounter.

[@shadowgear7032]

Don't use lichs use this

[@MoonMoverGaming]

Shadowgear That’s an easy one. Vampire lords.

[@shadowgear7032]

Moon Mover what if I want something that is not undead

[@pickledboaby]

Shadowgear evil archmage or necromancer/ possibly buff up a hag

[@shadowgear7032]

Toxi the hag could be cool.

[@Sanguine_Entertainment]

You can always take something like a lich and simply re-skin it also. It can easily just be a person, or an aberration of some kind, or alien, and so on - but with abilities similar to (or exactly the same as) the lich (that can come from other sources than the "lich" itself if you like). Maybe a lord in a room that's been enchanted, could also be the location of the "phylactery" - instead of summoning undead the lord can simply have warriors run in to help him. Necrotic damage can be reskinned to any damage type if you want for different types of enemies. Maybe psychic for an alien, or poison for a humanoid slime, you could even go radiant for some type of powerful cleric-like or angelic figure of some sort. --- This also helps prevent metagaming (if its a problem for your group). If they're not fighting a lich, but some kind of home-brew fire elemental thing, then they won't know exactly how to fight it simply by a description. This can also be done with vampire lords, or any other suggestion that's been given, or any creature really. If you want something that is not undead - you just make it not undead - just use all the actual numbers from the lich and CR from a lich, and you don't need to worry about balance - just your story and how to re-flavor each ability. A defining part of a lich is the phylactery - but it can be a fire gem for a fire elemental, an altar or holy symbol for a celestial being, and so on. I've had a "slime/ooze" lich work well before. A cave covered with slime more and more the deeper you went. Enemies before reaching the lich are slime and ooze creatures, the phylactery is a pulsing slime heart/bubble thing - it could paralyze on touch (paralyzing touch), its disrupt life was slime "tentacles lashing out from the cave walls - its "spells" were all slime things, its minions were slime things. Same resistances and immunities -- all the abilities made sense, and nobody realized they were fighting a "lich". When people recognize something is a lich - they start looking for a "phylactery" even if their characters have no idea what a lich even is. With they slime-thing -- they just literally don't know what it is. lol. Cr and actual numbers/mechanics unchanged.

[@chaddixon9764]

Use another colour dragon, clearly.

[@azmiraclegirl441]

An undead T Rex was the highlight of on of my home brewed campaign

[@johnhayden6820]

I am running one campaign right now and all the players are level 4. I don't even have any encounters with dragons planned until they are level 5 and even they are just drake guards. My setting is more of a kill the big bad demon, then a kill the big bad dragon campaign. The world of D&D has so much more then dragons that it's fun looking into other enemy types or even creating one of your own to fit the fight planned. When was the last time anyone actually made a froghemoth as the boss of an encounter?

[@Never_heart]

I have for a while wanted to run a campaign based around an intelligent ogre organizing and directing giant-kin to a truly organized army of physical powerhouses

[@TheTechnatron]

You get a Pass this time. I would also say Deities are great as well.

[@kylestanley7843]

Replacing an ancient, *ancient* dragon with a diety could work. Any old dragon would get nae nae'd by a god on your normal tuesday, though.

[@frankgeisenburg9208]

I actually translated a creature from a sci-fi story. "The Legacy of Heorot" was an incredible adventure-style sci-fi story with the bad guy being a creature they called a Grendel. (Beowulf was the inspiration) I made these creatures into "speed-drakes". They actually worked out well. I was tempted, but never did, to change dragonkind into more natural critters. EX: Forest Drake, Mountain Dragon, Desert Dragon, Swamp Drake...you get the idea.

[@crisrody852]

The best thing I ever did was creating a fucking Wizard that was making an Golem army. Started making the group face some weak golems, with clay, flesh and other stuff and in the end, the wizard was making a Colossal metallic magical golem with the form of a amphithere. Best encounter ever! PCs just find the Wizard's dungeon, fight their way til the main work place, where they see lots of parts without knowing what the heck was that, and while the wizard fought them he used some actions to put the monster together. And, when the players where going to kill the wizard, he was able to make that thing live with his last moments and man, fighting that creature gave my players 4 more sessions of awesomeness. (escape the falling dungeon, chase the golem before he destroys the elven forest, fight the creature, the gran finale)

[@brunomattos]

Titan/Empyrean, Archdevil, Fallen Solar, Hivemother Beholder, Aboleth, Lich/Death Knight, Epic Elemental, Cult of the Tarrasque (Tarrasque with cultists support would be tough)...

[@nrossetti2046]

Thundermaw Hellkite!!!!! One of my favorite cards, have this art as the background of my phone :D

[@Nerdarchy]

Random Fan yea it's a pretty sweet piece of art. Nerdarchist Dave

[@ericmueller6836]

I'm just glad to see a d&d gaming vid, that is sponsored, intro'd as sponsored. Nicely done. And great info to boot.

[@Inquisitor_Redacted]

Don't use bandits use this instead!

[@padalan2504]

Camels, definitely camels, or flumps a flump raiding party. why aren't there any werecamels? (would have an ability to spit in your face from 100m away)

[@MoonMoverGaming]

See, I go in the opposite direction: Don’t use orcs, use bandits instead! Because who are the real monsters?

[@SilenceForbidden]

Kobold gypsy troupe that is offended by your party.

[@austaryxthelastofthesane3870]

Simply Alice Kobold gypsy troop the can coordinate themselves to form a living Voltron to provide a suitable encounter for your party.

[@kylestanley7843]

@@austaryxthelastofthesane3870 KOLTRON, ASSEMBLE!

[@bmike3000]

that settles it, next time my players fight a giant, its treasure hoard is going to consist of a tank full of Magicarp

[@austaryxthelastofthesane3870]

To me, dragons offer a unique perspective. Unlike giants, dragons are not supposed to be human or have very human emotions. They provide an interesting view of the world and also give a lot of more opportunities for some unique encounters. My favorite dragon was actually our big quest giver and a constant figure. We got to know them a lot better than we ever could with say, a giant. You can’t replace the flexibility of a dragon with something concrete either like more alignment based creatures such as demon and angles. They’re alignment is too set in stone in my experiences. Another excellent example of a more unique encounter with a dragon was when our party actually shifted a hatchling red dragons alignment from chaotic evil to chaotic good. While it did require a bit of magic, if we had done that to a demon then it would have fundamentally changed its nature, not just its mind set. I do understand the need to replace dragons and completely agree with most of the options you provided, I just still think dragons should not be replaced.

[@tomharris5649]

What are your thoughts on fomorians? P.s. grats on 45k!

[@Nerdarchy]

Tom Harris Thanks love them. Nerdarchist Dave

[@proudpapaprick]

Tom Harris I recently had a party talk their way out of a Fomorian fight, their duergar cleric convinced them that the party were emissaries of a glowing city nearby(which they were there to check out). The Fomorians promptly apologized and left them alone, not wanting to offend the Mind Flayers of the city. Fomorians - great for a fight, great for world-building, and make a lasting impression.

[@austaryxthelastofthesane3870]

Never had the pleasure of fighting them but am thinking about shoving them in the face of my party. Any thoughts?

[@torinnreactsgaming]

As a rule of thumb, in terms of the hoard, I say wyrmlings have about 200 gp or so (total value between money and items) with a lot of it being random trinkets. Young are smarter and take nicer things, so half as many random trinkets and an additional 300 gp to the total. Adult, only shiny and powerful things, no trinkets, and increase hoard by 1000 gp total. Ancient have collected the finest of troves and only have the best things in it they could find, any item found in the trove is magical and increase the hoard by 3000 gp total. Also, with using this rule, i count magical items as 100 gp for each rarity beyond common.

[@WhisperingShade]

An Illithid multi-classed necromancer/blackguard riding a beholder mount and capable of summoning undead plaid slaad once per turn.

[@Andrewc87563]

A Wyvern us an option lower levels or boost it for mamma wyvern.

[@eltsoldier]

Just look at how _Shadowrun_ uses Great dragons. They *never* work alone. They often sit at the head of many major corporations; Schwarzkopf for Saeder-Krupp, for example. But more importantly, they also manage balancing the wisdom and intelligence that comes with age with the youthful energy and aggressiveness. Ryumyo is a good example of a full-power Great dragon who has all of the cunning of his kind, but he prefers to use it to gain as much power as he can as quickly as possible. This leads to those around him being fiercely loyal, both because they see a leader who can get things done, and because Ryumyo suffers no one to hold him back -- except maybe his principal rival dragon, Lung, who is evenly matched with him, but who prefers long-winded plans and obscurity more than direct confrontation.

[@derboeseVlysher]

Setokaiva As a German, I could never take a dragon seriously who's name is that of a shampoo brand (Schwarzkopf) 😂

[@stevenpepe6473]

Greetings Nerdarchy, I like your choices and will add a little bit to it. DM's, replacing a monster with another monster is a quick way to add variety. It will work but it is really shallow in execution as the swap may damage other elements of your campaign if you overlook some details. The first question is why not a dragon? Are you bored with them as they are your go to high level challenge? Are you doing a swap from a module and just need another compatible challenge? Perhaps you don't really care for single monster boss fights. This "Why not" drives other elements. The second question is whether or not the dragon is the apex predator of the region, owning all it surveys, or part of a food chain where it either shares the top or is under something else. This controls the look of the landscape and overall setting you are working with. A red dragon in a wooded region it owns would have large patches of burned down forest along with scorched earth and rocks marking its travels. That same dragon, on the run from a council of epic level mages seeking to harvest it for magical resources will not be so obvious. It may hide to the point of being subterranean or be polymorphed into a helpful NPC. This can add a nice investigatory element to the coming showdown and it takes away the simple die roll for info mechanic, driving PC's to interact more with the world helping to keep the immersion. The third question is what role did the dragon have? Local greedy terrorist? A simple monster swap is no problem. But if the dragon had schemes, alliances, minions, territory and loot it has several ways to manage them all. Most giants can't polymorph so it may have a strong human herald to deal with its daily business, only showing itself when destruction is required. There are also more obvious signs of its travels. Huge foot prints, knocked over trees, really large houses or cave entrances. It is a bit harder to be inconspicuous when you can't fly or change shape. These are just a few things and I'm sure there are more. All I'm saying is that monsters aren't usually just plug and play if you care about their impact in your campaign. A simple example is that my character just learned about dragons in a 2nd ed Ravenloft campaign. I have polymorph other but if I'm careless with it, any domain I create one in will suddenly have an Under New Management sign as they are overpowered in that setting.

[@boris_bulletdodger9109]

For me nothing will replace the dragons.

[@mawkishdave]

Love these videos, they are so helpful. Thanks

[@FridayBiology]

Could a vampire lord work?

[@johnsourvelis2415]

if you buff and modify a vampire just a little, hes an absolute beast, it can easily replace a dragon

[@jackfredricks6223]

If you use demons or devils then it would still be called D&D, because Dungeons and Giants doesn't quite roll off of the tongue.

[@honrethgaming8347]

"Dont use dragons... Dragons are hard" Well no shyt they are dragons.... If they were easy, everyone'd be slaying them all willy nilly like.

[@jackfredricks6223]

Dragon hordes were ALWAYS so disappointing. You have a picture on the module cover that is like the scene from The Hobbit in Smaug's lair with the dragon sleeping on the huge pile of gold. Yet the amount of coins given when the dragon is defeated would easily fit inside a single barrel.

[@Oznerock]

Have a hoard of pyrite or something.

[@GoblinLord]

ah yes, my favorite RPGs, Dungeons and Dragons, Grottos and Giants, Forests and Fiends, and finally Alcoves and Angels

[@texaswier]

Excellent topic, and I concur on giants as a first alternative, then demons or angels thereafter. However, dragons still reign supreme.

[@mattpkc34xx]

i love using dragons, they just feel more fun to play, and my players always love taking them down

[@bears4days607]

I personally like to throw in sphinxes and have like riddles super fun and players always get really excited when one of those bad boys pop out

[@OtsegoKid]

Possible interesting answer for the dragon's hoard. Have the dragon be smarter, wherein that they have their wealth spread out. They still have some with them, but they can never lose their entire hoard. Have underlings that work with them to manage banks, museums, companies. The old image of the dragon's hoard gets a little tired.

[@alexsandoval796]

Dragons serve a psychological niche in our human experience. That is why they have survived as an element of stories for as far back as human history has recorded. They are symbols of of extreme unknown and deadly danger, not necessarily evil but definitely alien, that if faced by the individual will reveal great rewards to the individual who faced it and the culture he shares it with. The symbol is reflective of what you most need being in the place you least want to go. This fear aspect is reflected in a tendency to freeze or flee from the dragon. Dragons have been called a chimera of every natural human predator as well as the threat of fire and is primal in it is a representative of the merciless aspects of nature. Using dragons serves a distinctive story purpose however if taken by the mechanics the dragon loses quite a bit. Statistically defining the dragon robs it of being unknown. The rules of the game creates a certainty that makes the players not experience any fear. Much of our gaming culture takes death or a challenge they may not be able to defeat out of the scope of the game.

[@gavinmcniel1601]

but they don't give up the same amount of loot

[@dirkbaldorad3634]

Khaeldranis Well, you can. It just might not be as appealing though 😄

[@fireknight4151]

You should totally do next "Don't use Drow use this." My sugesstion is Douplegangers

[@XSpellBinder]

I'm surprised with how often he had mentioned it that he didn't come up with this idea in the video. Why not have dragons replaced with Elementals they had can have deep machinations or, they can also be very dumb/intelligent, extra-ordinary type of beanings from Far, Far Away. Elementals also run the Gambit of Elemental abilities, if you need an ice based boss use a water, or ice Elementals. And this difficulty can be something simple like a mephhit or it can be a greater Elemental. Last of all, they also run a gambet of shapes you can have water snake, flame newts, walking boulders, or a living wind.

[@PozerAdultRacingTeam]

dinosaurs,any prehistoric creatures,golems,clockwork creatures

[@Palocles]

Meh. I’d use them all. First a solar angel would appear to the party, in the guise of some old wanderer, and tell them they have the potential for greatness or pseudo prophecy of a great enemy rising from the darkness. Then, of course the great darkness is a pit fiend or balor with designs on the prime material to extend his dominion. The pcs learn of a powerful artefact in the horde of a great wyrm, which could help them thwart the dark one. The party can’t defeat the dragon so they have to negotiate to trade a string of favours and completed tasks for the item. Some of these tasks taking them into a giant empire where they have to fight, coerce, steal, assassinate, bribe and/or blackmail to achieve their (and by extension, the dragons) goals. However! The giants have been subverted by the big bad to its cause, with the promise of profane power and seats in hellish throne rooms, and the pcs find themselves battling two enemies. Use Meirce miniatures to represent the dragon, demons and giants and you have truely imposing adversaries. Can be run from lvl 1 up to as high as you want to go. Now I just need enough players.

[@jesterknight6073]

Okay could you not deal with outher dragon linds like kobolts, dragonlings, lizard folk and other reptile related from kind?

[@arikwolf3777]

Funny, in all of my Dungeon & Dragon games, I never campaigned in a true dungeon nor fought a true dragon.

[@willinnewhaven3285]

The big advantage of using Giants over a dragon is that their power can be scaled by giving them levels and/or by how many of them you use. They can be part of a _society_ of Giants, perhaps with Ogres as servants. The characters can defeat some Giants and then find that this was a patrol and there is a little Giant kingdom tucked into the hills. www.drivethrurpg.com/product/218159/Glory-Road-Roleplay-Core-Rules?src=hottest_filtered&coverSizeTestPhase2=true&word-variants=true

[@The_Gelatinman]

A fallen angel/ evil solar

[@Battleguild]

Use a Gelatinous Dragon, a blind beholder, or a Gibbering Medusa.

[@rawbagle]

There's something special about dragons though. I guess they have their purposes but I do agree that they shouldn't be made too generic. Love these videos where they suggest alternatives

[@consensuslphisk]

The relatability of giants ia a disadvantage, one of the things a good dragon has is its alienness

[@mosesgomez5803]

Can you maybe tackle zombies next?

[@Eli_Noobinator]

I love this series! Keep up the good work!

[@nobody1755]

Dont use a dragon use a Roc, the giants created them to challenge the dragons airsuperiority, or use a behir, also made by giants to fight dragons but behirs have intelligence and a breath weapon.

[@ssjmatt8424]

You know, I tend to not use hordes when it comes to Dragons, I feel it is way too cliche. But at the same time the Dragons always have story bearing when they appear in the games I DM. I've just grown up on Dragons in video games where they don't have treasure, like Breath of Fire.

[@willb9431]

Don't use a tarrasque, use (insert monster here)

[@OtsegoKid]

What about using elementals? Varying size, power, etc.

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

You guys definitely get a pass for the alternatives. Any/all of them are worthy as distinguished replacements for the ill-advised overuse of a dragon in a campaign. In the worlds I generally work with, Dragons are forces of nature personified. They're highly intelligent beings worthy of utmost respect and outright terror. Players generally absolutely hate to run across one in any adventure because they're just as diverse a bunch of personalities as people, and that is completely unpredictable. Demons are evil, fairly straight forward. They're not a plain and simple, because they use seduction and deception as the greatest tools of their trade, spreading influence and garnering spiritual debts. Angels are pretty much the other side of the same coin as demons. They're not so quick to work with deception, being good, but practically everything else is still on the proverbial table. Giants are (in my experience) best run as over-sized people. They may well have immense intellect, powers, etc... BUT so do humans and most humanoids, to one degree or another. It's not entirely a matter of so ingenius as to be unattainable by human standards, but just so powerful in scale... even the scale of thoughts. They're just as diverse in their personalities, and may or may not subscribe entirely to the stereotypical alignment(s) as assigned in the book. Still, they don't necessarily represent quite the awesome and over-arching degree of shear mystery and muscle of dragons... at least until you're talking about demi-gods and the relative ascensions of deities and deification... Of course, one certainly does NOT have to follow every detail of the book(s), so take what you wish and buff what doesn't quite hold up to cut mustard in the game. :o)

[@bahamutkaiser]

Why.... would you replace dragons >.>

[@cwiskus4956]

With the giants the adventures could also shave the beard off the corpse and make them self a belt of strength

[@taylornickens6842]

That Thundermaw thumbnail, though.

[@jtjr26]

I understand not wanting to fall into the same trope of the party fighting their way to the dragons hoard. Defeating the monster and dividing the spoils. If you do this at all t should be to cap a major adventure or story plot. Perhaps the dragon is defeated far away from their hoard so while the party will enjoy the experience for defeating such a foe there is no hoard. That could be a simple solution to dealing with a hoard. Thought I suppose the party could chop the body up and try to sell it for alchemical or weapon components. Who would not want a dragon tooth knife/sword.

[@neoviking8266]

I used a black dragon as an evil overlord, at the helm of an army.

[@aseofspades4802]

I run a campaign with a lot of dungeons and I find that devils are a great replacement for dragons. they are an intimidating final boss, and the whole dungeon could be themed around them... maybe its full of the devil's cult followers? or symbols of his are everywhere. try it out.

[@Tareltonlives]

Don't use Drow, use-

[@Julikevatuce]

Duergar? Maybe?

[@lorenzoamantini8074]

Kytons more likely

[@tavernmancer]

High elves + black paint

[@codypatton2859]

Illithid.

[@peolo-499]

DRAGONS

[@kiltedcripple]

"Run the gamut" not "run the gambit." I like angels/demons as dragon subs better than giants only because they offer a wider c array of CRs and alignments to better analogize the varying ages and alignments of dragons. Also, if you're strong with the story aspect of the game, the motivations of the big bad should extend past your perspective as a single player. Giants just aren't that deep, their motivation should run much more obvious and less "long game" than a dragon's. Of course, first you have to decide if dragons in your world are great beasts, seige engines, or chess players on a multiplanar stage. D&D really presents options to be all three and that difference in scale, scope, vision allows you as DM to be creative as you want to be.

[@Zeyga]

Great Dresden Files shirt!

[@HrabiaVulpes]

I think giants are not the best replacement for Dragons, especially if dragons are run right. I find that many DM's run dragons as a big bags of HP and fire that sits on the grounds for melee characters won't be frustrated by the battle. In this way of running a dragon, giants are much more interesting and fun. For all those using dragons flying around and avoiding unwanted damage - giants will be a lot more boring and easy for players.

[@LittleMoose1]

What if Hades formed a Hell Realm creature made up of all the fallen big bads?

[@reachcole514]

Don't use a dragon. Use a kraken.

[@jamescopeland2663]

D&d should really include different ages of dragon a somewhat low level party should be able to handle hatchlings.

[@powwer_orb4635]

It does, the youngest *could* wreck a low level party. However a party of four level two players can kill a Dragon, but that's while it's little and still dumber than half the party, and at that point it doesn't work when you need it to be a servant of something else, because it's a dragon... they don't like serving

[@joluoto]

Don't use vampires use this

[@austaryxthelastofthesane3870]

*Dm uses a lich* The Party: *EVERYONE DISLIKED THAT*

[@OtsegoKid]

A giant spellcaster with a dragon familiar? 😈

[@pairot01]

Dungeons and DRAGONS

[@PozerAdultRacingTeam]

Hydra,basilisk,gorgon,cataplabeas

[@michaelcohen8259]

"Dungeons and Giants?" Doesn't have the same ring. 😀

[@lukastanojevic2750]

I mean if id use a Dragon id use them BECAUSE they Have that diferent mind set and so on. Also they preety mutch always Have some hoard so yea that.

[@PozerAdultRacingTeam]

the werewolf had Stormbringer,not the giant.

[@oldmanfunky4909]

Its not called "Dungeons and Giants!" lol Sorry couldn't resit. Giants are kewl. I think I would use the giants in concert with a dragon.

[@CaliBassin]

can you use a Giant as a PC?

[@xenoblad]

I like to use good aligned creatures that are traditionally viewed as evil as tragic bad guys. Like a commune of sentient undead who banded together to stand against the liches who enslave them and the bigotry of the living, or a mourning forest beast attempting to take back her captured children as they shipped to the human markets. Do you adventurers want money and power? Well those who have it to offer aren't the nicest people and often gained power themselves at the expense of others. Granted, I'm often accused of inserting a liberal bias(I disagree but whatever), so you may want to ignore my method if even the appearance of partisanship can tilt your group. i just love moral grey lines.

[@alexandriariley5209]

In defense of dragons: it's in the name

[@brucemartin1420]

Giants riding dragons lets go