Don't Use Zombies Instead Use This D&D Monster

[@Nerdarchy]

Links from Video The Deck of Many Website- goo.gl/WsqDsd (code SHIP20 for free shipping after $20 for North American orders.) Nerdarchy's favorite places to shop for D&D goodies (Affiliate Links)- Amazon- amzn.to/2jf0boA Nerdarchy the Store- goo.gl/M4YZEQ Drive Thru RPG- goo.gl/6nf5zh Easy Roller Dice- goo.gl/1n0M1r D&D and Think Geek Gear- goo.gl/LZAV5z

[@sambro6657]

Nerdarchy thank you for continuing the series you guys never disappoint and I’m glad I subscribed to this channel

[@Nerdarchy]

@Demiurgus, The Arrogant God will do. Thanks for the suggestion. Nerdarchist Dave

[@timothyarmstrong9351]

My DM likes to overuse vampires and ghouls are these good monsters and and are there any better Undead then these

[@Ed_man_talking9]

or you can pull a page from "the last of us" and have a colony of brain-altering funguses craving reproduction, and the only way they can reproduce is ejecting their spores on the living, this colony happens to be too successful and puts out a noticeable threat to the king or something. you can have them either be sentient themselves, or self determining if they view themselves as individuals or as a collective, or they rely on the sentience of their hoists to care for and nurture them. you could turn that zombie encounter into a conversation with the mushroom, maybe only the first shroom that latches itself on a humanoid can form tactics and attempt diplomacy if it chooses, maybe the source has allied himself with an enemy state who supplies them with recourse's and safe passage so they can claim his enemies. I think i'll call this monster "the mushroom-mancer"

[@adamturbett9748]

Would be fun to start a small campaign with a crazy old guy running into town, claiming that a monster has kidnapped his daughter, the party going to the "abandoned" castle that is filled with animated objects that they need to get through, getting to the final werewolf boss with the daughter trying to defend it, and having the party come to the conclusion that they're the bad guys in "Beauty and the Beast", and that they may have just killed all of the former servants in the castle.

[@Nerdarchy]

Great idea. I love that kind of stuff. Nerdarchist Dave

[@jaysw9585]

I did something similar in a joke game. Basically an animator took over an entire wizard tower and the local towns folk hired the players to evict the wizard (who was really a retired bard). Turns out the tower feeds off positive energy and was casting otto's irresistible dance on the town with illusionary terrain and music to feed on them. I even put on the Six Flags song at high volume, and made the players yell over the music. It ended with an epic dance off to the Thriller theme. The players kept thinking the wizard was evil, and then that the tower was haunted. Them trying to take out the wizard and later exercise the ghost while being subject to illusions and compulsory dancing was a lot of fun for me. Side note: there was a side-quest to stop a local villain who looked suspiciously like Snidely Whiplash from blowing up city hall (plus poor Nell) with some stolen dynamite which the players later used to blow up the animated tower.

[@NinjaSushi2]

Brilliant.

[@loki3275]

I'm doing that now.

[@johnhast1979]

Adam Turbett I am going to use this now . Would you allow any hints that the werewolf is the good guy or at lest a good guy ?

[@RoundRobin0]

The fast feral zombie is what most RPGs (DnD and Pathfinder being prime examples) call ghouls

[@mindlasher]

I used a group of "zombies" to harass a town. The heros swept through the old hospital that they laired in, killing every man, woman, and child in there. At the end they found out that the "zombies" were people with rabies and leprosy. Their 2 clerics never caught on that the "zombies" wouldn't turn. And they could have saved them with cure disease. Also I described the "zombies" bleeding and howling in pain when hit.

[@ae4164]

I was going to say, "fast zombies" aren't zombies. Being mindless and shambling but countless in number and difficult to kill is their thing. As soon as you start making zombies smarter or faster you don't get a scarier zombie, you get any one of 100 other monsters that is human-sized and wants to eat you.

[@BlackJar72]

I always use ghouls if I want hungry low-level undead, especially that might at on their own in packs. I usually only have zombies as the magically animated servants on some (usually evil) caster or similar monstrous enemy. Zombies may not even be hostile if created for some other purpose that doesn't involve guarding/fighting.

[@Never_heart]

A druid dying by carnivorous plant? That is beautifully twisted,

[@TheRealBot001]

I was an adventurer like you, until I got eaten by a Corpse Flower.

[@chaosryans]

Corpse flower is a real thing. Famous for stinking like bleq

[@TheRealBot001]

Im aware I can recall seeing one at Kew gardens when I was young. Is also a fun monster in DnD.

[@Zasek2112]

I can imagine druids reaching the end of their natural lives choosing this. Giving themselves back to nature, merging with it, maybe even becoming a Spirit of the Land.

[@DougVehovec]

When there's no more room in the garden, the plants will walk the earth.

[@samwhary5498]

OMG you are fantastic! XD

[@jgr7487]

trading "brains" to "I am Groot" is a good idea

[@Nerdarchy]

Glad you liked it. -Nerdarchist Dave

[@sleepinghermit7778]

We are groot

[@TheRealBot001]

Why not go Corpse Flower and get both.

[@jaredcross3805]

The DM describes that the room you are in contains a suit of armour, a cloak hanging on the wall and a gargoyle peers down at the floor. Your shoulder angel and devil start arguing. Angel: DONT metagame, the DM wouldn't be so mean as to have them all animate. Devil: Look, me and you both know that if these come to life we're screwed. METAGAME IT UP AND GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE!

[@Nerdarchy]

The question is who do listen to? -Nerdarchist Dave

[@BrazenBard]

Best anecdote I ever heard from a friend in that regard - the party's Big Burly Fighter found a beautiful full plate while they were going through a secret base of some sort, and decided to put it on - an excellent fit. A little later, they crashed through the door into a workshop where a bunch of malicious gnomes were working on artifice, and after the initial surprise on both sides died down, one of the gnomes asked "Master? Is that someone inside the armor golem?" Cue wrestling for control of the Fighter's actions. :D

[@jaredcross3805]

@@Nerdarchy a third entity appears on your shoulder. A tiny great old one who quietly whispers: You know they are constructs... So why not cause CHAOS and activate them. Metagame! you know you want to!

[@nickwilliams8302]

The irony of the OP is that making character decisions based on how mean you think the DM is, is itself metagaming.

[@jaredcross3805]

@@nickwilliams8302 hence why its a joke mate.

[@BrazenBard]

The party has to explore the home of a golem builder who has not been heard from in years. Plot twist: the golem builder is still alive, but suffers from severely debilitating mental decay, and the constructs are mostly ordered to tend and protect him, without any deeper understanding of what afflicts the old man. So when the party arrives and starts moving stuff around, or taking things, the old man will understandably get scared and hostile toward the strangers... NOTE: This subject needs some maturity to handle, so it's definitely not for every group, or every DM to try to pull off.

[@Nerdarchy]

Actually it's a great twist for a dungeon. The BBEG is actually just a guy that needs some help. -Nerdarchist Dave

[@Never_heart]

Yes I love that. Make the party forever unsure of looting

[@NobodyDungeons]

I homebrewed some animated armors so that the armor opens up to try and get people inside of it where they are then possessed as the armor grows stronger feeding off their life force. It made for some really interesting combats that scared the ever loving snot out of my players when the wizard was trapped in this armor, and the party had no idea what to do as the party barbarian ended up prying the armor open with a crowbar then ripping the wizard out of it. As a reward I let the forge cleric create a unique magic armor which acted as an exoskeleton.

[@michaelstengle5118]

I'm envisioning the boss mastermind as a brain in a jar Circle of Spores druid bolted to some animated armor.

[@Nerdarchy]

I'm digging this visual. Nerdarchist Dave

[@gaylordrobinson1199]

That’s awesome mate

[@iPhoneeditor]

I find the basic zombie at low levels really bogs down combat. Low level players don't often have access to radiant damage to overcome undead fortitude and because zombies have a Con bonus they often pass the save when they go down to normal hits and keep getting up. This results in the pcs standing in the same spot rolling to hit and either missing or connecting with a hit that doesn't put the thing down, getting frustrated, and ending their turn. This is usually followed by the zombie missing its attack on its turn turn, rinse and repeat. To fix this every time the zombie goes down increase its undead fortitude increase its DC by 1 to get back up. Zombies are their own archetypal monsters that are not easily substituted and can be used to great effect, to overcome their slow movement put them in close quarters situations or have them surround the party while they are searching a building or something, this builds a sense of dread that adds tension to what otherwise might be mundane combat and makes for some interesting scenarios.

[@Nerdarchy]

Conceptually I like undead fortitude. It really captures the horror genre zombie well, but sometimes what makes for a goods story doesn't translate well into the game. Especially if your players don't respect the narrative. A monster that keeps getting up should be kind of horrifying. Instead in a game like D&D it just becomes a nuisance. -Nerdarchist Dave

[@iPhoneeditor]

@discoandherpes that is definitely an option. While grappling is something I can see them doing, following it up with the shove seems a little excessive considering their very low Int. In classic horror fashion I would expect them to be a grapple type enemy with a bite attack but D&D doesn't treat them as such.

[@TheFearsomeRat]

@discoandherpes Another thing, maybe Fire damage could turn the zombie into a very stupid skeleton (depending on how it was raised), making it easier to deal with, something a bit more common then Radiant damage, so even though you just got rid of the zombie you still have to deal with it's skeleton which should be a lot easier to do.

[@felixrivera895]

Oh man. Having blights rain down in a corrupted forest at night, hitting the ground and destroying one another as they begin piling up on the forest floor all around the party, lurching forward towards them, shambling and slithering through the shadows. Decaying plant matter and old animal flesh slopping off their vines. The smell of rot and something bitter sweet perfuming the air. That can be easily horrifying.

[@Nerdarchy]

Agreed! -Nerdarchist Dave

[@samwhary5498]

Yes but a necromancer needs that undead motif. My first campaign has one as an antagonist, and believe me vivid descriptions and ambiance go a VERY long way in keeping your party on the edges of their seats

[@nickwilliams8302]

Yeah, you can look at foes mechanically (which is what the vid mostly does) all you like, the horror of zombies comes from the fact that they used to be people. You just can't get that from constructs and plants.

[@samwhary5498]

@@nickwilliams8302 ooooo unless we have zombies made by plants!

[@silversentinel7916]

Spore Servants work nicely. They can affect people you know, creatures, players, etc.

[@nickwilliams8302]

@@samwhary5498 Fair enough, but that's hardly "not using zombies".

[@nickwilliams8302]

@Fabius Maximus Not disputing the mechanical difference, but my point is that I just can't see any way to do what Zombies can do _thematically_ without just creating "off-brand Zombies." That is, once you've turned ordinary people into mindless, implacable killers, you got yourself some Zombies. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it. The idea of an evil Druid accomplishing _essentially_ the same things as a necromancer, but using _life_ rather than death to do it, is really cool.

[@dgtlrn]

Oh no, not the un-Ted!

[@Nerdarchy]

That is so bad it's good! -Nerdarchist Dave

[@proudpapaprick]

Dave failed his save against Tasha's Hideous Laughter.

[@euansmith3699]

Plants are emotionless... "FEED ME, SEYMOUR!"

[@jamesgiesea6743]

An idea I ran with some time ago (I forget the publisher) involved a village setting made up of mimics, controlled by a doppelganger population. As if the knowing condescension from the villagers wasn't enough, once the story climax hit everything the party had once used (beds, chests, tables) became a potential threat. And since they were mind controlled via plot device they just would not stop. Rather insane, that was.

[@zavexcapricious2519]

Zombies: the things necromancers only use because they are easy to create and make great cannon fodder to cover their actually deadly skeletons

[@namekman01]

i like the idea of zombies not always being zombies. so a zombie is usually a corpse possessed by some sort of evil entity from the negative plains. but what i the zombies were instead physically possessed by slime that ate and replaced their brains. they would be immune to the usual anti zombie shenanigans. just think of it (1950 sci trailer voice) THE ATTACK OF THE BRAIN EATING SLIMES FROM THE OUTER PLAINS! (oooo-weee-oooo noise goes here)

[@clericofchaos1]

I got tired of zombies ages ago. Honestly I think if you need low cr undead to throw around, you're better off with skeletons. You can give them better weapons and armor and because you don't have to worry about that undead constitution It makes keeping track of hp so much easier. If you want something tougher than the standard skeleton, give one some plate armor, a higher str, and more hp. Also feel free to throw in levels of fighter. Creatures with a low cr are the best ones to give player classes to in my opinion.

[@clockworkpanda8]

Nothing stopping someone from bolting weapons and armor to a zombie. Why not use a mix of both, representing different ages of the bodies used.

[@Nurk0m0rath]

Personally, I think skeletons should be beefed up to a higher CR. Think about it, what you've got here is essentially a construct made from a durable material, bone, which can be further reinforced before animation, and these materials are in many cases bound together by nothing but energy, so what's stopping a skeleton from re-forming when you mace it hard enough to scatter its bones everywhere? Anybody up for a Wolverine skeleton with adamantium bolted to its bones and blades welded to its arms and a multi-lives mechanic that can only be interrupted by holy magic? Also, I feel like the true terror of the living dead has been mostly lost in D&D. Mace a zombie in the head, it crumples and doesn't get back up, unless it succeeds a saving throw and doesn't hit the ground. A large part of the terror these creatures inspire comes from the fact that they will never stop, no matter how you slice and dice them, until they are completely destroyed. Why not spice up the horror by letting your players get in good hits--cutting off heads, severing limbs, etc--and the zombies and their severed parts just keep coming, until they're completely destroyed? The same can be done with animated objects...anybody remember the movie Bedknobs and Broomsticks? Less substantial elementals, regenerating creatures such as trolls, and certain plant creatures might do the same thing, but slowly re-growing into full creatures for that feeling of an unstoppable horde. Of course, every one of these examples needs at least one exploitable mechanic that stops the creatures, otherwise your heroes are doomed. Fire is an easy one.

[@rodneyrossow5633]

My last low level group would run into a combination of skeletons and zombies (usually numbering around 8-12 combined) while exploring an old crypt. The zombies would charge down the hall while the skeletons would fire arrows at them from their rear ranks. Made it quite challenging upon occasion for 5 Level 4's.

[@PeterFendrich]

My mind immediately went to plants as well... Probably because I have an irrational fear of sunflowers, but we don't have to go into that. I do think that it is a nice way to help give options to a new DM. The easy typical low-level challenge, which is in its own way very fun and interesting, would be a small party of blow bubbles Adventures assaulting that necromantic Tower to take out the deranged spellcaster with his small gathering of Undead, but just merely swapping those out for nearly mechanically similar plants opens up a host of options that newer players don't always see it's obvious. Suddenly The Necromancer can become a Fey Lord, an easy way to introduce in the darker side of the Fang that newer players or people who are less read in traditional mythology might know about. Great resource guide.

[@Nerdarchy]

Glad you enjoyed the video. Nerdarchist Dave

[@jhansen4661]

The cadaver from Tome of Horrors is a good substitute for a regular zombie from the monster manual

[@tabbywagner4196]

Invasion of the body snatchers!!!!! NPC's that the PC's know are not themselves anymore!!!! So sweet

[@pippinvanriel]

The whole "chucking zombies our of the window" line somehow gives me flashbacks DMing..

[@Nerdarchy]

Sounds like someone has some creative players. -Nerdarchist Dave

[@patrickkeller2193]

That'sd odd, it's somehow giving me flash worwards, he ... heh eh... muahahaha

[@Battleguild]

Other ways to spice up zombies: Base Zombie Stat Block Changes may change CR. Drowner 20ft swim speed Slam auto grapples creature on hit. One target. Tactic: Attempts to grapple targets and shove them prone underwater. Found in bogs, underwater wrecks and sunken temples. Silk-Wrapped Zombie Slam auto grapples creature on hit. One target. Quirk: Has a Giant Spider's Egg Sac within its chest. If the zombie is subjected to slashing damage, 1d4+1 spiders (CR0) crawls out of its chest into nearby unoccupied spaces and aren't hostile to the zombie nor is the zombie hostile to them. Found in spider hatcheries or other areas with numerous spiders. Rime-Covered Zombie Frost Armor: The zombie has an extra 5 temporary hit points. While the zombie has these hit points, any creature within 5ft of the zombie that hits it with a melee attack will take 5 cold damage. In addition, the zombie has resistance to fire damage and is immune to cold damage while it has these hit points. Found in regions of extreme cold or within white dragon lairs.

[@trevynlane8094]

I have made environmental hazards and animals in a few adventures, and sometimes I have even mixed two or more hazards at once. Also, oozes are pretty mindless and can replace a zombie in a few low to mid level encounters too.

[@iPhoneeditor]

Constructs and plants are two monster types that I don't feel get enough love, in part I think because most of the cool plant monsters are said to exist in the underdark and people read that and may not want to put them on the surface. Myconids are super cool and animated objects like you said are quite a lot of fun, I've used them in hauntings and parties have to keep their head on a swivel when anything in their environment could begin moving and attack.

[@Nerdarchy]

I think with a little twisting both make great additions to an adventure. There are just so many ways to use these critters. -Nerdarchist Dave

[@vincemoreno8187]

I'm actually doing a steampunk Borg-ish type enemy right now that is half zombie and half construct. this vid helps. thanks

[@timd4524]

The original I6 Strahd's zombies were very fast with multi-attack and had to be turned as mummies. Also vampire vines were cool. Kind of tough to explain a dozen constructs shambling along in a group though. Blights however do add a nice creepy flair. Especially in a graveyard with zombies. Make your regular zombies not normal and scare the hell out of the party. "It moved how fast?" or "I got rot disease?" are always fun to hear from a group.

[@Nerdarchy]

I don't think so. Malign force animated objects instead of the dead. Chaos magic strikes an armory. Just two thoughts that pop into my head. Nerdarchist Dave

[@timd4524]

@@Nerdarchy While I can see that working for say animated armour, the rarity of other constructs makes it seem difficult for say golems. Unless of course the constructs were built in mass to guard a specific location. So I can see that working. I like the idea of the blights mixed with zombies though. That's a cemetery I wouldn't want to be in. A lot of creepy crawlers. Oh, my poor players. The blights remind me of the splinters from the Tempest expansion for 5th edition MTG (off to the wayback machine Sherman).

[@PhoenixNorthstar]

Great video guys. Twig blights are a great idea for a campaign I'm currently rewriting from my initial Pathfinder concept. The story involves the party working from a coastal city who's economy is based on shipwrighting (the making of ships). As spring begins the city loses contact with a nearby lumber town that provides the wood for the shipbuilding, and the party is commissioned to find out why they've lost contact and where the first shipment of wood (now a week overdue) is. The party arrive to find no trace of the town, and indeed no trace of human habitation whatsoever, Only a dense and forbidding forest. The plot transpires and it's revealed that a group of Druid Ecoterrorists are using ritual magic to placeshift settlements they consider damaging to the environment (lumber towns, mining camps, etc) to the shadowfell, and transplanting sections of the feywild to replace them.

[@cameronwielenga7765]

I used the blight trifecta and they are scarily synergistic. For low levels it can be a major threat.

[@nearthe2nd]

I thought of an really cool monster duo to spice things up for the Zombies, similar to your channel's Monster BFF. It would be really cool to use Slaadi and Undead in tandem. They could be control by an Necromancer whose been going around collecting Slaad Mind Control Gems. Once, an Slaad bursts from an unsuspecting victim's body after being infected by an Red Slaad for 3 months, the necromancer could raise the corpse into an undead, which in turn doubles the amount of servants the necromancer would have. It honestly seems like an rather cost effective means to amass an undead & slaadi horde of pure chaos because there's no reason to just leave a corpse there to rot if you're trying to gather an army to cause true havoc.

[@Empressofnight]

I run zombies as a buffed hoard with 2 homebrewed types the feral zombie and the explosive zombie 1 moves faster than the players and can attack twice per turn. Now the explosive zombie moves at the same speed as normal but as the name suggests they act as walking fire balls exploding on death with the same stats as fire ball

[@Nerdarchy]

I've done exploding zombies in the past . They exploded with necrotic energy though. Nerdarchist Dave

[@draugadrotti7155]

I know I am super late to the party and it will probably never be seen. However, I can see a small campaign where a wood is slowly moving towards a town. The party comes across said town 2 days before the wood is to arrive and just mayhem ensues as the trees tear down the walls and is reclaimed by nature.

[@Nerdarchy]

You've been spotted. Great idea! Nerdarchist Dave

[@dcyphermanplays8233]

Using constructs in a campaign would be very interesting set with I Warframe vibe if you ever played that game and know the lore in it

[@rustyshackleford3190]

Weird. I never once thought of zombies in fantasy games as the slow shambling plague zombies from Romero films. My zombies were always sword and axe wielding foot soldiers (sometimes armed with bows or crossbows). They aren't mindless, but they are bound by the limits of their instructions from their master. They know how to open doors, tie knots, climb ladders, avoid gaping holes in the ground, move around burning pools of oil, and so forth.

[@Sorain1]

A lot of people use skeletons for that role of 'undead army soldier' but zombie has more disgust going for it.

[@AvenueStudios]

I have a wonderful player and friend who hates zombies! Not cuz she is scared or grossed out by them, she just rolls her eyes every time they show up and loses her suspension of disbelief cuz she thinks they are so overused 😆 Great ideas thank you! I think hive mind insects could work too with the drones/workers being like automatons only following specific orders and the baddies can progress from mindless to feral with difficulty!

[@OtsegoKid]

A changeling zombie. It's form keeps shifting and changing. Maybe even make it happen in a character's hometown, so they see the shifting faces of their friends and family on this creature. Would make for some interesting will saves.

[@Nerdarchy]

That would be a great idea. Or a single zombie that keeps creating spotting dead loved ones as the zombie subconsciously reacts to the people it knew in life. Nerdarchist Dave

[@OtsegoKid]

@@Nerdarchy That would be awesome! 😊

[@fang4223]

you know, I could not have discovered this as a more fitting time. I'm in a game where currently the death-aligned dragonborn (necrotic rather then acid) are invading the territory of the life-aligned dragonborn in their forests with the party caught in the middle. I'm pitching this idea to my DM as we speak.

[@johnl340]

What spell would allow you to summon constructs like the animated armor and such

[@jaysw9585]

Weird that they discussed constructs as an alternative to zombies and did not mention Flesh Golems which is basically a zombie made of body parts. Adventure league has a 2e conversion to 5e and the store has the entire Ravenloft Monster manual for 5e. It has stats for bigger Flesh Golems, Rot Golems, maggot golems, zombie fog, Ju Ju Zombies, Sea Zombies, Zombie Lords, Zombie Treants, Ghoul variants, cannibal zombies, ext. Lots of resources for bigger zombies and even constructs. I am currently running a massive 2e Ravenloft converted to 5e campaign. I managed to piece together all the box sets into a massive campaign (minus Light in the Belfy). A re-occurring theme is that zombies and other lesser undead are more there to complicate the encounter, than to be the encounter. Zombies add a huge environmental obstacle for the PCs. I personally never use them as the direct threat. Having a room full of zombies while a bigger threat exists, makes for some great RPGing in combat.

[@Nerdarchy]

Flesh Golem was just of the challenge we were looking at. That is why no love for the flesh golem. Nerdarchist Dave

[@jaysw9585]

Flesh Golems are CR5, w/ immunity to normal attacks and gets hit points from lightening (maybe add lightening rods the PCs have to remove to defeat the golems). It also gets a +7 attack and 2 atks per round. Put in a single Flesh Golem in an encounter full of normal zombies, and it will change the encounter dynamics completely. The flesh golem can even wear armor to bring its AC up. Even better, multiple flesh golems that when hacked apart, come together to form an even bigger flesh golem. The opposite of this strategy is putting normal zombies in robes. The PCs always assume it is a lich, then watch them blow all their higher level spells/abilities on a weak zombie. I have been running Ravenloft for almost 25 years. I have gotten pretty damn good at defeating players expectations and playing on their assumptions. Best part of DMing.

[@Nerdarchy]

@@jaysw9585 I guess when you mentioned them I was thinking they were higher for some reason.

[@thomashughes2699]

Now I'm thinking of setting up a sort of predatory forest that "feeds" on interlopers and larger animals so have adventures walking through mentioning that there is a lack of animal life and is virtually silent apart from the creaking and rustling of the trees. Or as a slightly more fun but dangerous is a fully animated kitchen that then is blindly chopping anything that lands on there boards or it becomes degraded and mistakes the adventures as ingredients and start trying to prep them i.e washing and scrubbing them clean trying to take of clothing which is fun till the knives start flying or they get shoved into a cooking pot full of hot water.

[@s.rnohbody3068]

had an idea a few days ago and started writing a forest overtaken by a Vampire Treant that uses Blights and over plants and evil Fey to kidnap mortals from nearby towns in order to feed with Dryads working like Vampire Spawn to guard the Treant

[@dougsundseth6904]

Another zombie replacement that comes to mind is arthropods. A swarm (not necessarily a "swarm") of giant ants or centipedes or land crabs can fill much the same niche as zombies, but with less cliche.

[@shiekahfan01]

i think people largely forget that Shadows are a 1/8 cr monster and they're really great for a level 1 or 2 party as the first boss

[@absolutejoy2702]

Hey question? I’m looking to use the construct idea but I’ve come across an continuity error in my idea and the last thing I want is one of my players perking up and calling me out on it. I’m gonna force them into an ancient and probably magic massive almost quarry esk tunnel down to the Underdark and I’d like for there to be like a giant structure that will separate the tunnel in half and I’d like it to be a completely construct run fortress that will attack the players once they process an intruder but the error falls that the party is currently following a group of trolls (i used that roper troll idea from a while back) who kidnapped their friends for the drow and I’d kinda like to give my party a level or two before they truly get into the Underdark and are just massacred, which I think goes unsaid would be a problem

[@sambro6657]

I like the series and glad it’s continuing but have you guys ever thought to do a poll for this series if you don’t mind me asking?

[@Nerdarchy]

We've done informal polls. But that isn't a bad idea. Step one I'll have to figure out monster we've done so far. -Nerdarchist Dave

[@BrendanKOD]

Of course there's also Yellow Musk Creapers which after killing a victim injects a seed into their head to reanimate them a zombies. Plus if you want to get horrific at higher level, there's always the option of a sadistic bad guy killing all the most liked NPC's to make flesh golems.

[@garysmith442]

Big bad for early-mid level... A possessed suit of armor that's a helmed horror with a flock of flying daggers. LoL I would say if you wanted to secede paranoia into the game and really slow wilderness travel down, I would make the plan to monsters identifiable by thorn growth patterns or flowers that bloom off of the plant. Zombies also fill the roll of atmosphere or an environmental element in plague scenarios. Plants can fill that roll while constructs are more hard pressed

[@jeffheun5258]

Undead are really over used in modern media. I've said for a while that I wish people would make more arch druid villians that command the plant hordes. So an example encounter would be: You step out of the river boat along with your companions setting foot on ancient soil. A clearing surrounds broken ruins that seem to pulse with a saphire hue. "There it is!" Says your guide. "We finally found the super awesome gem of power and cuddlyness!" As your team approaches the floating orb within the delapitated buildings you hear a rustling noise within the nearby forest. Looking up, you spot a storm of dagger-like blades of grass and leaves flying at you out of the trees. Before you can act some of the vanguard among the hordes scream past your group embedding themselves into your surroundings. The ruins now look like a green pin cushion growing steadily more dense as the debris accumulates. Damage is considered magical piercing +3 for the purposes of resistances. DM Rolls d4 in front of players and gets a 3. -3 hp from everyone in group. (Each pt of damage representative of one blade that hit you. Alternatively could have player's roll their own damage for a more individual approach.) As you notice one needle-like blade of grass shoot off your armor, 3 piercing blades of pain fire themselves into your vitial points! "Run!" Your guide screams. Assuming your party runs instead of sitting around like morons, your team needs to make 3 successful athletics checks (dc DM's discression... Based on terrain?) to make it back to the boat (or another place if DM wants to send them into a dungeon or other lo-cal.) On a success the damage die stays at d4, on a fail it goes to d6. After a fail, even on a success for the next roll your individual damage die doesn't decrease. 1 fail: d6, 2 fails: d10, 3 fails: d20, 4 fails: d40, 5 fails: d100 percentile die. DM's discression at this point, whether or not they want to just allow all party members to get to the destination or to keep scaling by +1 d100 for consecutive fails for team members that haven't made it to the destination. Team members that made it to the destination first will have to still deal with the oncoming onslaught. Unless they're protected somehow (hiding under a crate, shutting a door, ect.) they will automatically fail each consecutive turn the rest of the team isn't at the destination (other players consider helping them.) Once everyone is together, they must get below deck on the ship, get into the cave which somehow automatically collapses the entrance, or hide within the odd stone building with a door and no windows. I also like the idea of adding a mechanic to fight off the blades of grass and leaves. Physical melee attacks can target a single blade or leaf. Ac 10, 1hp. Single target magical attacks like firebolt can potentially target more than one depending on DM's discression. The number of blades killed will reduce the damage they do to the player for that round. 1 fireball will automatically destroy all assailants in direct contact but you will suffer the fireball damage instead. Consider making the player's fight off a set amount of remaining creatures after the party is "safe." (ie: door locked behind them.) After enemies are defeated... DM describes the players hearing the patter of grass and leaves striking their protective shelter, just like if there were a rain storm outside. This goes on for a while then finally quiets down. If the players look outside again, there will be no evidence of the green things left, other than the cut marks left in the stone or wood. If they look, they will also notice the grass and leaves they fought in the shelter are no longer there. (End example) This same type of thing can be done with other types of plants, fungus (Expanse), constructs (replicators from Stargate,) or some combination (Star Trek's Borg.) The main thing people get from the undead trope is the hopelessness of fighting a neverending army. (ie: you kill two but 3 of your own are added to their ranks.) It's also creepy and gross which I guess jives with some people but will turn others off. In anycase, writers can get the same effects narratively without using the undead cliche.

[@uncommonguru]

Honestly I almost wish this had come out before I’d been doing my series in my homebrew world - I completely spaced on Blights, but the moment you brought up alternatives I remembered them. Definitely got to remember to review the manual for all the goodies that are just buried within. Thanks for the info! It’s always helpful to hear.

[@z3r070000]

Oh I thought we were coming up with other types of undead because zombies are kinda over used and wanted to home-brew a flavor for them, try to hone in on one specific back story, like they were made by a necromancer or possessed by a demon, or weren't buried properly or were buried on cursed ground, like Deadites or possessed corpses.or you wanted to try out something mechanically different like Ghouls, Revenant. but yeah I see what you mean, you can usually capture the feeling of terror that zombies have with anything if done right.

[@IAmTheStig32]

I think to make zombies work as monster mooks, you have to work to make clear to your players that every shuffling undead that their PCs cut down is a broken human being. If the PCs stop in a town that winds up getting overrun, bring NPCs back as zombies - the cheerful barmaid who was due to get married next week has her intestines spilled out over her white apron, her pretty face half ripped off revealing the skull underneath; handy retired adventurer Old Man Birch who lived alone in a cabin on the outskirts has had both his eyes plucked out leaving dark empty sockets, and his gnarled white hand still grips his old sword he used in life.

[@PedManXing]

Have you heard of the Five Nights at Freddy's game franchise. A great way to do a construct horror.

[@herrdave920]

Could you guys have a look at the Mohrg at some point? It hasn't existed since 3rd edition, but it looks like a fantastic monster to use in a dungeon as a boss or secret enemy, I'd like to hear your thoughts.

[@NobodyDungeons]

In my games I homebrew the heck out of zombies to make them very fast and much harder hitting, but much frailer than normal with infectious attacks that reduce the targets health by 1 per minute with infected individuals resurrecting upon death to tear into a new zombie. This makes zombies a heck of a lot scarier, and much harder to deal with as they sprint after you with limitless stamina, and deal a sizable chunk of damage.

[@tommcd5943]

animate objects? tables, boxes, armor, ect?

[@LevidelValle]

FUNGUS that attaches to the heads of humanoids that drives them mad, would be the first part of the quest. A village under a lords care has not reported back in some time. He/She sent many men to check on them and none have returned, having to gain the aid of adventures, your party has to investigate what is going on. This would be the hook for the first part of the campaign and you can go from there.

[@gasmonkey1000]

A huge fear of zombies is the loss of autonomy. The zombie was once a living being with hopes and dreams, but now all that remains is the husk. In addition is the bodily horror of one's body, something many people view as something of a temple being desecrated by rot and decay for all to see. In this regard I believe mongrelfolk are the better replacement for zombies. Like a zombie the mongrelman was once a normal sentient creature but they have been tainted by magical means to be turned into an abomination. One could even argue that becoming a mongrelman is even worse, for at least with zombies there is very little if any sentience left, but being a mongrelman means you are alive, you have to deal with the judgement of others. In addition the origins of both monsters is similar, as zombies can be raised by a necromancer and the mongrelfolk is created by a mad wizard. It's that horrifying familiarity of the zombie that can terrify so many people, and if you play mongrelfolk off right they can be a pitiful and horrifying species to witness. Imagine if you would you are in a group, you have gotten to know one particular village but after one adventure you find the village devastated. Ruins, smoke and ash everywhere, and you can't find many of the people you grew attached to. Then you hear a noise, movement; you turn and see a mockery of nature staggering towards you. A mishmash of crab, tentacle, snout and hoof. You prepare to draw your weapons when it says your name. Then you recognize the voice, and you start to realize the similarity of the face of the wretch before you to that of the blacksmith's son. The child then pleads for you to end it's misery. That would be a horrifying and tragic experience if done well.

[@marvalice3455]

I'm a lover of plants as enemies. they get underestimated irl, but plants are smarter than you might think!

[@wiggychiggy]

For some reason this week's intro really tickled my funny bone! :) great job as always guys.

[@Nerdarchy]

Happy to be of service. Nerdarchist Dave

[@Vainisto]

Upvote if you thought the answer was going to be Skeletons.

[@nathankelley1466]

Just use Yellow Musk Zombies, or Spore Servants of the Myconids. That is sort of an undead, plant-construct mix.

[@Daile0303]

I tend to use shadows or husk zombies. Because sending a wave of zombies towards the players generally does nothing, because zombies are kinda lame, and it becomes just a boring encounter. But a wave of shadows or a wave of husk zombies is a force to be reckoned with, and dying to one of those is a really bad thing, there is just no "death save" or "spare the dying" to save you if you go to zero HP. It gives the encounter a sense of danger that the zombies can't, and my players run for their lives instead of fighting, wich is exactly the idea! If you send just a bunch of zombies one after the other until your players have no slots and low HP for them to run, the encounter is gonna last for 2 sessions before they feel like the zombies represent something dangerous enough to run

[@stripeybag6977]

Ahh Zombies my first real combat encounter and first crit which was a punch through the face. Good to see plants and constructs getting some love though since they tend to have more niche appearances but what about an undead warforged with rotting wooden insides? Plus I had a cool encounter where my LVL 17 Lore Master Wizard just finished his Iron Golem but a Druid teleported us to a demiplane forest of all sorts of plants. It was cool since the more I lit the place on fire the stronger my golem got plus the plants became weaker and my goal became doing all I could to stay on his back since the forest was burning all around us. Got a cool kaiju style fight between him and a treant too which looked like the Fiery Intervention card from MTG.

[@ArmoredGaming1990]

Actually as the pandemic went on I began to think about zombies. And the real fear of zombies isn't that they used to be people, it is the possibility of being infected.

[@BossTripp1]

The only time to use zombies is for a survival atmosphere. A party being chased down by 1000 zombies is scary especially at lvl 5 and below.

[@silvertheelf]

Before those zombies were the mythical intelligent quick advanced literal clone of a living organism but so much more aggressive. My favorite personality are the Viking zombies which were nightmares to deal with, my party got absolutely shredded by them, they are a quick, intelligent, powerful, interpretation of the classic zombie, they could use armor and weapons they picked up both as living and undead and would act just like a living human... except much more kill kill kill, oh and they didn’t turn others into zombies unless they had a similar mindset to the zombie when they died, so if they were vengeful aggressive people then they would turn into these zombie monster. I also made a plant monster called an eyed tree, it looks so much like a tree that you would easily fall for it, then the tree suddenly opens it’s eyes which are usually all the way around the tree beneath all the branches, then 2 very long arms sprout beneath the eye ring and they are dawned with massive massive massive claws and the roots act like tentacles with the appearance of roots, the thing will just suffocate their victims with their tentacles, they are massive compared to the players to so they are difficult, depending on the tree, minimal size is a small apple tree sapling appearance, largest is like a massive redwood or jungle tree of the same size.

[@neerGdyahS]

If you want something suitably humanlike, disturbing and EVIL seeming, you can always use animated dolls and marionettes and such. You can even have concealed weapons inside them like in an anime. Blades, poison, alchemical flame even. If you want undead they can be possessed, if you want purely constructs but also that creepy touch, they can be magically programmed to giggle, attempt conversation (poorly) and other creepy human mannerisms. Maybe they were made by a deranged enchanter/doll maker that wanted to create companions for himself, but grew more deranged and desperate as his experiments didn't work as he wanted. Maybe he made a warlock pact or turned to other dark magics in his desperation to achieve the perfect doll, and that twisted his creations further. Again, very anime, but also very creepy.

[@robwong7206]

Thanks for the suggestion, though I dunno if I would replace Zombies with them, but I certainly want to use these concepts regardless. Maybe the Zombies are the ones asking for help against the Constructs? lol Just need to have your cleric ask the dead first to find out. lol

[@gergernzero6904]

I did zombes like you treat lyicen throut. If they got a bad hit they have a chance to get the cures :)

[@dennisjensen4375]

The interesting thing I find about Zombies and Skeletons, that seems to get over looked, is that they come from casting an Animate Dead spell -- which to me is actually in the Animate family of spells -- as such they are not actually undead but just animated objects thus a cleric cannot turn them -- on the flip-side as you pointed out there are nastier more feral zombies and such and these to me are the undead version of these creatures. Yes a large number of mindless creatures is always interesting but with the caveat they require an animator and as a spell well it can be dispelled (so not turned but dispel comes into play with them) Btw are you guys still doing content?

[@nuzuk]

Can’t even remember the last time I fought any good old fashion undead

[@hammer1349]

I mean I started off facing zombies in my single player campaign although I have an idea for a new enemy my paladin can face (I am writing a story to go along with it although we only had one session so I am free to add what I see fit). My idea is a what I call a corvaine which is a mass of undead tissue that forms into a raven like creature, fuelled by magic. They vary in size and spread an aura of corruption that makes plant life whither almost instantly and slowly kills other stuff. Can be the size of a large bird to maybe a house so an enemy that can be used in various encounters. If anyone has heard of the banes from the game Armello, the creature is heavily inspired by those

[@BahamutZerodragon]

personally zombies are really over used in movies/books. also don't forget there are parasitic plants. would it be that much of a stretch for a parasitic plant that targets a specific creature or humanoid.

[@randomnerdery6511]

YES!!! Zombies jumped the shark over a decade ago, along with vampires. SOOOOO done with both!

[@Nerdarchy]

@@randomnerdery6511 that is why we decided to do this video. Hope it helps give others ideas. -Nerdarchist Dave

[@chrisrivers3968]

A friend recently did house plant assassin vines in our campaign threw us for a loop

[@jesseweckter2261]

D&D has supported fast/agile zombies as well, JuJu zombie has been around since 2nd.

[@aiden-sy3ex]

is there be a good replacement that's still undead?

[@Halfgnomen]

Have you guys considered looking at older build concepts with all the new content that is out?

[@The_Custos]

Vet DM ran a zombie game with Triffids. Fuck that was creepy. One poor Leeroy Jenkins character got torn apart. It also meant "attacking" was really inadvisable, so we more problem solved with fire, objects, cover.

[@xezzee]

What happens when you but headband of 20 int on zombie? Lets asume that it would work and now rhe zombies has 20 int . . .

[@arthursoptic]

I think the gold of this channel is that this alternative monster encounter. Because you guys seems to have a lot of insight and knowledge on monsters. I like this kind of video where it give me info on what I can use and what I can try out. I think this kind of content will help your channel stand out from most of the content dump channel and give the channel nice touch to it. I do like the monster bff too. I think you guys can have some 30min video go deep on the content instead of just brief mention and move on. But meh u do what u love to do. Just suggesting

[@wesleyfilms]

I like using skeletons a little too much 😭

[@Nerdarchy]

Can you really use them to much? -Nerdarchist Dave

[@jamesgiesea6743]

Can't have a throne of bones without skeletons. Aspiring necromancer players have to start somewhere. 😋

[@antwan1357]

Zombies , and Giants seem to get spammed a lot in games .I count lich and giant monsters as this is merely another zombie undead things. Or just big things. So like imagine something realistic but crazy dangerous like a tiny snake that has incurable bite , boom character is screwed.

[@twilightgardenspresentatio6384]

Headshots killing zombies didn’t start til around the year 2000

[@kishinasura1989]

DM pulls something like the Evil Dead Me as the party Artificer: Hail to the King Baby

[@HeTaLiA152]

As a necromancer I must say no my precious horde is too valuable

[@AnimeNPC.]

Attack of the Killer Tomatoes

[@HBStone]

3:21 If the "visceral feeling of horror and dread" comes from the zombie's inherent humanity, then how can either plants or constructs replace them? The vid doesn't seem to ever come back to that. It's much easier for a player or character to mentally distance themselves from plants and constructs as truly mindless "things" - they're not even "creatures" let alone family. I think that's why so many representations of zombies are contagious; not only could you KNOW this enemy, but you could BECOME this enemy. Not so with plants or constructs. At least not usually, I guess you could also have a plant that turns you into a plant or something.

[@JTheTeach]

I would agree with your assessment about the Zombies innate horror. Much of the undead invoke the same dread. These were normal people, who were often killed in some aweful way and then their body, the thing that represented them to others in life, is not animated with pure evil intentions. A thinking persons form reduced to a walking reminder of our mortality and that there are forces beyond death that want to eat us. Pretty tough to replace that with a living rug with no human connection or shambling mound which want to eat to survive, an understandable drive.

[@Sorain1]

The most fun use of that I've seen is an enemy nation who's army's are always vanguarded by shambling hordes of zombies. Zombies in armor, with weapons and following the direction of competent officers. Because the nation sees corpses as resources and until a Soldier's remains are useless, their family keeps getting paid. The Dead Tax is a concept for them, so the civilian dead of every day life are part of garrisons. Even spectral undead serve in their armies as irregulars. What truly scared the party and their nation was the realization that the people of this conquering nation genuinely believe in their cause. They willingly let their corpses be used. Ambush a squad of regular soldiers and there are decent odds every time you cut one down, they reanimate spontaneously to defend their comrades in arms. Their battle cry was literally "Devotion Beyond Death!" The origin for that one was a powerful new (only a century old) goddess of undeath had come to power and was... you know, not actually evil? But try telling everyone else that. The nation kept having problems with it's neighbors because as the only place you could openly practice Necromancy (They had a mages academy with a dedicated wing for it.) a lot of criminals and 'Criminals' fled there. Eventually a pretense for war came along, they got invaded and it turns out a short victorious war is an amazing shot in the arm for your economy. So normal politics ensued and 'totally not Rome' started expanding.

[@thedungeonscrawler2318]

I'm writing a campaign and I was thinking of using plants AND zombies. this is perfect!

[@OtsegoKid]

A Venus Blight that can swallow small size creatures, or restrain a Medium.

[@justinharris7181]

Ted totally looked hung over lol.

[@Vincent-tb3os]

you guys radiate major uncle energy

[@Nerdarchy]

Is that good or bad? We are uncles after all. Nerdarchist Dave

[@Vincent-tb3os]

I just see you and I get the same vibes from when I was kid and would go to my uncles house to play video games with him. :)

[@kyubii972]

Always enjoy these videos. Thanks as always.

[@silvertheelf]

I make zombies and use zombies... but I make them as annoying as possible...

[@rcschmidt668]

4:20 Nerd alert.... 1/4 is more than 1/8, so was the relative CR reversed? (2/8 = 1/4). Thanks!

[@lyrix9753]

Why not oozes too? Oozes can be amazing horror monsters if used effectively

[@nightingaleseraph]

Undead are my favorite kind of enemies because of their dystopian nature. That being said basic zombies aren’t near as fun as skeletons and skeletal templates of enemies like owlbears or giants.

[@dansmith263]

entering a plant dungeon sounds like a very bad idea- but all that loot tho hmm

[@chaosryans]

The construct thing really meh these days. With all these marvel movies zombies basically fill the "fodder troops" role and sure theres a survival element in rpgs. But really you have to make that numerous to keep busy, if they are too strong then its an issue. But i basically thought of ultron, etc just kill a bunch of robots. Plants aren't terribly often used in media but have been used to great effect like "the ruins" where the plants start growing inside people or "brothers grimm" with moving trees.

[@Dracodentus]

No