Rails vs JavaScript: Which one should you use for your SaaS?

[@aeroplane769]

Ruby on Rails is a way more developer-friendly framework than others.

[@phanta5m]

they "force" use to do best practice, which is good btw

[@buildingcoolstuff6639]

I will like to know your opinion on RoR vs Meteor Js.

[@ric7044]

Rails is good only for light crud apps. Start adding algorithms, complexity, connections to multiple databases, queues, other data source types or anything that rails generate can't help you with.... Then you painted yourself in a corner. Still, plenty of crud apps needed out there. If that satisfies you as a programmer.... Then I guess rails is for you

[@laughingvampire7555]

I've been coding in rails since 2010 and I disagree. Rails is opinionated and omakase and if your project is in line with those decisions and opinions then you are in a very developer-friendly environment. however if you need to get outside of the standard rails pattern then all hell break loose. Like right now, how friendly is Rails that all the projects written with webpacker now have to undo all that mess or stay trapped in the version that supports webpacker and carry that technical debt for months and even years. Rails is very niche framework. Only the people who haven't actually used Rails in real life keep saying this nonsense of "developer-friendly"

[@killerdroid99]

I find sinatra to be better if you have a pre-planned workflow ofc

[@thierrydebelder2947]

Thanks for this vid, I was on the fence on what to learn JS or RoR, I'll go with RoR

[@ajtheengineer4121]

The choice between JavaScript and Ruby on Rails doesn't have to be exclusive. Because ruby on rails has a really nice test framework for writing end to end tests, especially for small projects or projects starting out, I'm also a huge fan of the mono-repository set up. Specifically, I found that ruby on rails + vue or ruby on rails + react really easy to work with, and being able to write end to end tests allow me to be very confident that a feature works from a user's perspective.

[@theroboticscodedepot7736]

Great video! I can definitely appreciate the ROR approach. I have built my own proprietary framework but use many of the same principles built into ROR. 1. Downside to my approach is it took a very long time to build and debug my framework. 2. The upside is I have complete control to make changes. If I had to do it over again I might go the ROR road but building your own framework was a great learning experience.

[@donnfelkeryt]

Good point! I'm glad you posted so others can learn from you as well. Thank you for that insight!

[@ringthane69]

Great stuff, Donn... subscribed!

[@MrCostas32]

i totally agree!!! great video

[@donnfelkeryt]

Thanks!

[@SkaPhilosopher]

Thanks for the informative video!

[@eliaslamesgen8703]

Thank you man.

[@donnfelkeryt]

You bet

[@junyorff12]

I love Js, but Js have not a Tool to make an entire App like Rails or Django etc. has no pattern. Tks for the video.

[@asdiasx]

How about Nestjs and Adonisjs?

[@bukharinama6515]

Yeah one is laravel of js the other nest js is much more advanced and effective , module system, ​@@asdiasx

[@laughingvampire7555]

I have written apps in Rails since 2010 and I'm working right now to escape Rails, Is a very niche and opinionated framework, and I used it just to escape Java world because Java has also its opinions that I disagree with. Rails is awesome when your problem is a CRUD problem and that fits most businesses for the first 2 months, the thing is that most businesses evolve into something entirely different and the Rails architecture becomes a straitjacket, if the app you are doing mostly keeps it's core within the CRUD model then the friction will be minimal but it grows and grows and grows. I also think that the part that makes Ruby on Rails attractive, which is Ruby it becomes also the part that makes it problematic, Ruby lacks a proper type system and thus makes any change heavily dependent on test coverage so it is problem in its own right. It is very difficult to get on ruby on rails from windows, pretty much the fastest way to do so is to get WSL2, then linuxbrew and then follow the setup as if you were on a mac. Which brings in the other issue Ruby on Rails chains you into macos, I like macos visually and there are great things about it but you also have to deal with the omakase mentality and "brilliance" of the Apple team and accept whatever imposition they think is great, then find workarounds.

[@desmoulins6095]

what language framework do you want to replace Rails with ?

[@bukharinama6515]

​@@desmoulins6095nest

[@stevenhe3462]

The biggest con for Rails is actually backwards incompatibility.

[@adventurer2395]

dude compares a programming language to a framework. SMH

[@donnfelkeryt]

Bruh, I know. What a tool

[@JamalShaheen]

Great video, with RoR not only I enjoy developing apps but I also built a connection with the framework through DHH, emotionally hard to move on, like a wife.

[@ebookfactory8566]

Where you from

[@JamalShaheen]

@@ebookfactory8566 Hi mate, I'm from Palestine, where you from?

[@jopa_ryds]

Thanks for this. I've just finished the Odin Project Fundamentals and have the choice to do Ruby/Rails or Node, will choose the Rails track after watching this. I figure I will need to learn Node anyway so might as well have Rails as an extra tool in my back pocket. You got a new sub!

[@donnfelkeryt]

Awesome! Glad to know it helped you!

[@RafiHasan-pi4xz]

I'm currently on The Odin Project and have the same reason to be here. How are you doing now? :D

[@clayjeansen5502]

I'm doing the Odin project too and I'm gonna go with the ROR!​@@RafiHasan-pi4xz

[@Maverral]

You put "maturity" of Rails to cons, "because it's not new"... what? It should be in pros, because if you have a problem, there is already solution to this on the internet. It means also it had been tested by thousands of programmers and users over the years and it just works! We can say the same about JS - it's not "new"... so what?

[@poochymama2878]

It can be somewhat of a negative in terms of job opportunities. Not as many people using it anymore.

[@OilersFlash]

@@poochymama2878 but in this case it's not. Lots and lots of jobs with Rails. Demand can't be met currently in my opinion

[@phonk64]

Amen. I've been an RoR dev/CTO since 2007. I haven't bothered with other frameworks because I am far less effective and efficient without Rails.

[@stavrosthalassinos5716]

The thing that got me most in this video is the part where you talk about actually making two different applications in the end for frontend and backend. In the past few days, this has been a pain in the a$$ whenever I noticed that I have to make the changes "twice" (not actually twice though, but you get my point). I believe that my next SaaS will be made with Rails so that I can save some valuable time.

[@donnfelkeryt]

@@stavrosthalassinos5716 yessss exactly the problem I had. Making changes twice… you basically have two apps … a client (react, android, iOS, etc) and an API … two places 😱

[@stavrosthalassinos5716]

@@donnfelkeryt man I don't know if that turns out well, but your video made me take the decision of re-writing the whole project on Rails, and it really make me feel like I am progressing faster than I did in the beginning, and makes the whole thing so smooth. Thumbs up to you no matter how it turns out in the end :)

[@abdullahsaleh7196]

For sure ruby on rails i will choose

[@abdullahnaim10]

Great comparison video. just one thing is the comparison for rails to node/express seem to be two very different tools. Wouldn't a closer comparison be something like nestjs to rails or ruby sinatra to expressjs? Express/node aren't a fullstack framework while rails is. Something like nestjs or adonis seem like javascripts few good opinionated full stack frameworks. I do agree that ROR is the best fullstack framework for smaller teams and projects and even large ones for simplicity and delivery time.

[@tamasbalint1597]

Thank you Donn. It was very interesting to watch this video as a front-end dev with 6 years of experience mainly working with React, Node, AWS. I felt like I am blinded by these all new shiny technologies. I enjoyed your perspective. You might have done it already. However, an example video of Ruby vs Node SaaS app would be awesome. Thank you once again.

[@antonius254]

the thing I hate with javascript is that change ALL THE FUCKING time the last formation i've made ( not in javascript chance for my self ) the people who made the guide never upgrade to the new syntax of js ruby is good for new coder for that. And js is not good for backend...

[@DevlogBill]

Don, what type of Database is used for Ruby on Rails? is it SQL? Do you need to learn SQL for the Rails?? MySQL? Fairly new to programming, thanks man.

[@mateoleoncamacho3222]

Default is SQLite, you can connect anything else tho

[@DevlogBill]

@@mateoleoncamacho3222 Thank you Mateo for the feedback.

[@donnfelkeryt]

In the development env its SQLite. Production can be MySQL or PostgreSQL or any number of options. I prefer to use PostgreSQL for both development and production.

[@hoanghainam7272]

Rails community prefer postgres SQL. But you can use mySQL. It up to you.

[@DevlogBill]

@@donnfelkeryt Hi Donn, I stood with JavaScript for a total of 1 year and got really good with the fundamentals and even did some React. But this year I enrolled in the Meta Backend Course, and they teach it in Python and D'Jango. By any chance would you happen to have any experience with this technology and how it compares to node.js? I am assuming it is faster than node.js as well? Thanks!

[@shivar547]

Yes I like Ruby on rails than other js framework s

[@tylercornett2022]

Blazor is a remarkably productive stack as well. C# and LINQ are very nice to work in. I love Ruby, but if you are building out an API specifically, I love the strict typing of C#. Coming from Ruby and Python, the syntax is different and inheritance works a little differently, but even though C# is more verbose, the code ends up being almost boring it's so easy to read...

[@donnfelkeryt]

I'm a big fan of C#, and its probably one of my favorite languages. If you're in the .NET realm, this is definitely something worth evaluating.

[@anthonypetruzzi158]

This is even more pertinent now that they have hot wire baked into the framework. Just having that power at your fingertips is a total game changer for developing live applications. If you haven't taking rails 7 for spin and used hot wire, I would strongly suggest installing it and just following through the rails seven demo that dhh did. It will completely blow your mind.

[@donnfelkeryt]

Agreed. Hotwire is a game changer.

[@ismail-talb]

i'm just switching to Ruby after about 2 yeas of using JS ,now my eyes hurts when I see any js or ts code .Javascript maybe the only language that learning a framework takes 10 times longer than learning the language itself

[@je9625]

Thanks for this. You just solved a problem I was grappling with.

[@powerinemesitsunday236]

I think this is a slightly wrong comparison. Comparing a framework with a language isn't exactly ideal. You should be doing a Rails vs Express comparison or better still, a Rails vs NestJS comparison as those [Express and NestJS] are frameworks like Rails.

[@donnfelkeryt]

Fair point. Express is still a shell of what Rails is. It should be Express and NextJS. Still hold firm on my advice though - you'll be far more productive with Rails espeically with things like turbo android and turbo ios with Hotwire. You can build mobile apps, native when you need it. Thanks for the comment!

[@powerinemesitsunday236]

@@donnfelkeryt Express and NestJS*, you meant?

[@julian_handpan]

Short answer Ruby on Rails!

[@fwuensche]

Thanks for the video, and fully agreed on the trade-offs and final decision for ruby on rails. However, I'd be interested to know how you deal with frontend intensive applications. Do you usually go with React for your RoR frontend? Or do you try to stick as most as possible with Rails built-in tools such as stimulus and hotwire? Thanks again 🙏

[@donnfelkeryt]

I integrate lately with Hotwire and Stimulus. Both give you the speed and responsiveness of a client app but with the Ruby on Rails infrastructure

[@pdfeditify]

Agreed.Using the complete ROR stack is the way to go in most cases.However,if you suspect your application is going to have a lot of pages with complex FE logic(like the scale of FB ,Twitter), React would be my choice because you can just organize your code better and apply patterns to the FE code. Overall,when starting a new SAAS application I would choose Hotwire + Stimulus any day.

[@stevenhe3462]

@@pdfeditify Could you raise some concrete evidences why React is better for organizing code and apply patterns to the FE code in the said case? Just curious because I have only recently get to React and Hotwire.

[@Dr_PhilK]

Hi,I just stumbled on this video, you inspired me a lot,please can you recommend any full stack RoR and ruby bootcamp courses ?

[@fwuensche]

@@Dr_PhilK Le Wagon is a high quality but also quite expensive bootcamp. I previously worked with them and had several colleagues coming from their bootcamp so I do recommend. If you're motivated, there are other ways tho, that could be less expensive, and more effective. Like, hiring a 1:1 tutor for 1 hour a day 5 days a week for 12 weeks (~$3600) is about half the price of Le Wagon (~$7500 for the same 12 weeks). But you need self-discipline.

[@DexterrrrX]

wait so let me get this straight... ruby on rails can be used for both your frontend and backend in one codebase then?

[@donnfelkeryt]

Indeed it can. Yes, there are some instances where you might need to write some js via stimulus controllers, but yes, you can utilize Hotwire and get the speed benefits of a single page app

[@johndoyle9917]

This is an excellent video. I appreciate your perspective and real-world selection criteria. Your point about - beware of devolving into two apps for UI vs API - really struck a chord.

[@donnfelkeryt]

Thanks and I'm glad you enjoyed it.

[@FrancescoMari1]

The reasons to use Rails in 2023 are exactly the same as in past years: if you need a framework to quickly go to the market, test and iterate your business ideas with a fast feedback loop, Rails is still unbeatable. If you need something crazy fast you have plenty of alternatives, but using languages and frameworks that can't give you the productivity level of Ruby and Rails.

[@donnfelkeryt]

Very well said and I agree 💯

[@victorhugopaes6932]

Thanks for the video! I would like to know your opinion for someone who intends to start studying programming in 2023 and wants to enter the job market knowing Ruby on rails. Important detail will be my first programming language!

[@donnfelkeryt]

There is demand for every modern programming language. Some more than others but there’s demand everywhere. I’d say choose what you enjoy encause you’ll be doing it a long time. If that’s Ruby, cool. If that’s python, cool. If that’s Kotlin or swift or JavaScript or Go or Rust. All valid options. Doing what you enjoy is more important than “the most popular”, in my opinion.

[@fabriwild]

Absolutely Rails!

[@wfbraga2099]

It took me a while to get the "convention over configuration" but when I got I was flying!

[@stvlley]

the rails to react/ api to client model is what Flatiron School teaches ❤️

[@dmitriyobidin6049]

Tbh, you either want to prepare for a highload. Then you choose go/java/c#, maybe rust. Or you want to start as fast as possible - then you choose RoR. But the problem with RoR - it's very hard to find good devs, and when you find one they cost a lot...

[@colinrosati9403]

I’d like to see a comparison of fullstack JS vs RoR bundle sizes, runtime speed. SSR scale. The argument about framework convention and speed of dev is superficial 2024. Why don’t he use next.js for a fullstack instead node + react 😅

[@Jankee187]

Next js is the solution for future :)

[@bhairavkedare9074]

Then what to use on the front end. If you don't have to use JavaScript, can the front end code run only with HTML and CSS?

[@donnfelkeryt]

You can use JS. With rails you can use Stimulus js, Hotwire or even a vast array of other stuff. With rails and Hotwire (which is powered by JS under the hood) you can be very productive.

[@engine_man]

Why not both?

[@Cyber_Lanka]

Correction: everything in JavaScript is an Object. In fact, purists say it's a true OOP language.

[@horstcredible4247]

Same as in Ruby - the programming language behind the rails framework

[@asmithdev2162]

Why not both

[@misteryleft]

What is your recommended resource to learn RoR?

[@johnm3229]

KZbin, udemy courses

[@paulvickers8059]

The Odin Project

[@Masheru14]

I'm confused learning golang or ruby ? I'm from software engineer using JavaScript and java springboot

[@aqwan01]

Ruby is the under appreciated magic of Rails, the worlds most beautiful language to work with.

[@mayurdugar03]

Quite informative. Thanks!

[@SIX-ji7rv]

Will be waiting for Ruby on Rails course from you...🥺🥺🥺

[@josbexerra8115]

Gracias mister Felker por las recomendaciones...., ya me decide voy a mover mi pequeña aplicación a rails

[@ernepazzo1212]

Gracias por tu opinión, es el camino que escogí también luego de años como desarrollador. Saludos

[@sheikhmohideen6951]

I have a doubt in intellij kotlin that which shortcut keys to get the numbers.kt file

[@oguching]

I stopped at JavaScript is not an Object Oriented Language.

[@donnfelkeryt]

Thanks for watching that far 😂

[@computerprogramming7821]

Definitely Ruby on Rails.

[@armanmirk]

You are very loose with what you’re describing. Comparing JavaScript to Rails isn’t really comparing apples to Oranges. JavaScript is a language and Rails is a framework. Did you think about what JavaScript frameworks to compare with Rails? This video isn’t a cogent argument.

[@donnfelkeryt]

There is sails and next.js. Still, none touch Rails in regards to productivity in my opinion.

[@donnfelkeryt]

There are others too, but my opinion still stands that Rails is nearly impossible to beat for productivity.

[@armanmirk]

I don’t really disagree and I’m a 10+ years Rails developer. I think in the video you speak as though you are comparing Node to Ruby but in fact you compared Node to Rails without really clarifying the difference which could be confusing to a new comer. If you think Rails is productive then you should check out Elixir Phoenix. Elixir community is still smaller than Ruby but Phoenix is better than Rails in almost every way thanks to Elixir.

[@donnfelkeryt]

@@armanmirk I could have made that distinction more clear, I agree ... no doubt. :)

[@muzzi1984]

Go with Rails!

[@donnfelkeryt]

My man! 👊

[@2MSTennis]

Thanks Don for the video! I’m convinced!! I’m off to start on RoR!

[@donnfelkeryt]

Awesome!

[@md.jubairahmed6580]

How come I never heard of this channel!

[@donnfelkeryt]

Thanks for watching ;)

[@fooked1]

If you have an idea that's worth coding, you might as well code it properly. Which means, separate your concerns.

[@ric7044]

Rails is good only for light crud applications (not small necessarily, but light in any features beyond that), as far as I'm concerned. If that satisfies you as a programmer, then I guess rails is for you. If you're serious about coding and not simply making a buck from writing superficial apps, you will get bored with rails quickly, and feel stuck in a walled garden of convention. Again, if that's enough for you, then enjoy rails' bliss

[@mukinha]

Agreed

[@repotranstech9614]

I prefer Django, especially now that I can add interactivity with htmx.

[@r1gocastro]

Thanks!

[@donnfelkeryt]

You bet!

[@greglocker2124]

So, in other words, would you rather agonize or be in agony? God I feel bad for all the noobs who will take the bait and use either of these worthless techs. I wish I could have the four worst years of my entire life back when I listened to idiots who made me scared of any semblance of safety in a programming language and cut years off my life due to stress and literal suicidal ideation. I am not joking, noobs. Dynamically typed languages can make you hate your life so much that the only solution you want is the end. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but people peddling this garbage deserve to have their back broken. Seriously. The answer to the question in this video is, "I'd literally rather kill myself than use either for more than 20 lines."

[@duskydusk5672]

skill issue

[@samvelavanesov6838]

Great video, short and sweet. But, I'm just going to have to disagree on the notion of having both backend and frontend arch so codependent, coming from JS world and with a heavy bias of course. I can't even imagine having to develop having such constrains, forget the mobile side of it, because fundamentally, frontend, should be functional without having to be integrated at all with a proper mockups etc... From my perspective the backend and frontend shall never be related, if only by sheer coincidence.

[@killerdroid99]

Well we have redwoodJS which can also scaffold an app just like ruby and the dx is gr8, its cli is heavily inspired by ruby

[@lord-jarc]

you just only talk about pure node js, what about node js with Nest js?? you should put framework with framework, Node alone of course is confusing.... Nest js gives that guidence you need to not feel lose... and yes, your speed of development with Node and Nest is also insane....

[@amazingtamilmystery1196]

Javascript developers paid more . So I prefer JS and has many lib than ruby

[@aeroplane769]

I challenge you, the time you take to create the CRUD operations using JS, I'll do it in half of that time in Rails(or maybe in just 2 secs.).

[@amazingtamilmystery1196]

@@aeroplane769 npm has more lib 😂😂😂

[@amazingtamilmystery1196]

@@aeroplane769 JS is trending in the market . Ruby is good option but it don't have customisation compared node js and php , even compare django with rails . A lot of customisation in node,php compared to Ruby .

[@knsense]

Actually Javascript developers are among the least paid devs out there

[@amazingtamilmystery1196]

@@knsense WTH

[@juandalisay]

I would suggest Phoenix Elixir over Rails or Node Rails can get your app running fast, but either your users will stop using it after they see how slow it is, or your server will crash from the lack of RAM

[@donnfelkeryt]

While Elixir is a great tool, I disagree with the sentiment of your comment. Why. You can tune a Rails app so that it can scale. There are many very large rails apps that are successful. Some include: GitHub, Shopify, Basecamp, Etsy, AirBnb, Instacart, Hulu and the list goes on and on and on ...