Dose Espresso by Volume, Not Weight

More effective puck prep: There's an ideal volume of coffee for every basket, and an ideal gap between the puck and the shower screen. I'll show you how to measure the headspace, make corrections, and develop recipes on the basis of a sensible volume of coffee, not some arbitrary weight. This alone will eliminate a number of persistent flaws.
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[@scviper]

While the advice in this video is extremely useful and sensible, the puck press is not for hiring unskilled barristas, I feel like that is not only incorrect but also slightly damaging, if everyone takes this seriously. Reasons to use a puck press: - save your baristas from RSI (repetitive strain injury). In a cafe where you pull hundreds if not thousands of shots a day, RSI is a real problem. - you have some recipes which require a certain amount of pressure. This is absolutely not transmissible between baristas. You dial in the coffee once, at the beginning of the day. After that, you want to keep all the parameters the same - you have the weight and shot time, but you might, for example, want only 5 or 10KG of pressure on your tamp. This is not doable by hand and might change the way the shots pull. A puck press is great at this. - speed: no matter how fast you are and RSI aside, a puck press is still faster and error free, when you have to pull shot after shot after shot.

[@ridethree]

Interesting points raised here, a couple of questions: 1. How do you know that approx. 2mm is the perfect amount of headspace? 2. Different coffees also take up different amounts of water, so shouldn't you measure headspace after preinfusion, when the puck is water saturated? 3. What would be the disadvantage in underfilling the basket and leaving a lot of headspace? From a flavour extraction perspective of course, because I know it might get messy to clean up.

[@nichj487]

One key factor here is to make yourself familiar with how tapered your basket is. The VST basket I use with my La Marzocco does not have much of a taper, so the tamper only ‘grabs’ the inside surface when I’m down to the bottom 25% of the basket. So I could conceivably dose as low as 10g in an 18g basket without any issue. Scott Rao and the folks at Decent ran testing on the importance of head-space, and found that providing more room actually leads to higher extractions. Take from this what you will, but it seems to suggest that there’s no reason to allow for “only just enough” head space between tamped puck and screen. Provided your tamper/basket proportions allow for it, I would err on the side of more. Love your videos as always!

[@thedude4795]

Fantastic info!

[@pr1ke892]

Tamping Preassure does not affect shot time unless you tamp with insufficent force to cause channeling. Main Reason for the tamping preassure being irrelevant at a certain point is that at 9 Bars a Coffeebed of 58mm Diameter will experience a Downforce equivalent of around 240kg. Wether you Tamp with 20 or 40 kg barely makes a dent in comparison here. This is an old myth that has been debunked quite alot of times. I can provide sources but YT doesnt like it when people post links.

[@thibodaux3424]

100% agree with you.

[@barryhull6391]

I’m interested in the source, mind providing a name so I can read up on it? (alas for YT’s link aversion). I get it though when some people post malicious links, lol.

[@willmitchell8500]

Big agree here. Tamp until fully compressed and no harder, but using it as a variable is not a good move, IMO.

[@whiterockjoe]

@@barryhull6391 look up barista hustle blog - backed by testing in the lab

[@hopeimfunny]

This is big-brained "how did I never consider this before" stuff, thank you so much.

[@all_systems_failing7235]

I started paying more attention to headspace a few weeks ago after getting frustrated with trying to work within the basket's listed average capacity. Getting much better shots now. Thanks for your efforts!

[@glen.moralee]

Thank you for this. So simple and yet I had no idea despite years of coffee obsession.

[@Cyb3rGlitch]

Dose by weight, verify with volume. 👌

[@peterpan69]

another very good point about temping... i learn so much already in this video than other coffee youtubers

[@lucafrattari3064]

Compelling story, a must watch beginners and aficionados. Thanks for sharing

[@unclekim0]

Man, appreciate all the experiment you did. you are the best sir!

[@naharidavid]

ive been thinking about this ever since I got a decent timed grinder (I got a specialita on your recommendation). I was surprised at how varied the volume and mass is between different beans. Now I know that when it comes to espresso, volume is the key to consistency. This is where timed grinders come in handy. If a new bean results in too much/little screen clearance after tamping, I can dial in/out a few tenths until I get it right.

[@justinbouchard]

interesting way to say don't put too much coffee in your portafilter basket

[@chongli297]

Definitely an advantage of e61 group machines where the shower screen is shaped like a jar lid. Other sorts of machines (saturated groups) have a shower screen which is just a flat disk with a hole in the middle for the retaining screw.

[@wiredgourmet]

You can just mount the PF to verify the headspace. Not quite as convenient, but equally effective.

[@pakasokoste]

What happens if there is less volume than recommended?

[@TomJones-tx7pb]

Good points about tapered baskets. I know that the density of my coffee beans tends to get less the more they are roasted. Also, different beans off-gas different amounts of CO2, absorb different amounts of water, and try to expand different amounts. That said, when I dose to the specced height/weight in my baskets, +1-2 gm of extra coffee makes little difference in the puck/extraction behavior. I often don't even have to weigh the beans, it is typically 3 spoons to within one bean for an 18gm extraction. I like having a dry puck after extraction without having to clean the screen much, so have various basket sizes in 2gm increments for how much coffee I want to extract (14-22g), and still get the effect Nich J is talking about.

[@ninnyhammer77]

Just got a new ECM Synchronica. With the bottomless portafilter and stock 22g triple basket, I mounded up 20g of coffee and put a coin on top (did not tamp). Locked in in and took it out. Put a straight edge across top of basket and used a digital caliber's depth rod to measure down to top of depressed coin. After subtracting width of straight edge, I get right at 1 cm. So in the future I know to have coffee bed height at least a few mm more than 1 cm below top edge of basket! Maybe I'll make a little wood block tool to be able to quickly test this after tamping. Thanks for the vid!

[@briantan3931]

Great idea with the depth gauge

[@goldfish8196]

I respect people at Decent espresso but volumetric dosing just works. Thank you for the video

[@peterpan69]

very good point.. the weight is different depending on the coffee

[@Tass...]

So the Razor tool that Breville includes with their machines isn't something that should be dismissed then.

[@all_systems_failing7235]

I use it to evaluate headspace, but only after I tamp. I don't scape coffee away from the puck with it.

[@machineslave3]

Real interesting video. I’m going to try this.

[@eric2005]

Great video. Isn’t it easier to get a leveller, or tamper, that is spring loaded and can be twisted to different depths? These normally have markings on the side. Compensate for any puck screens, then set the appropriate height for the leveller/tamper. If the leveller/tamper doesn’t groom the bed, then add more volume. If the leveller/tamper sits above the basket rim, then reduce dose.

[@destructoooo]

How would you know when it doesn't touch, or touch not enough, since you can feel the resistance, but don't know when is enough, until you've gone too far, back n forth, sounds like it'll take too long. (For first time dialing in new beans anyway)

[@adrien335]

Very interesting, thanks!

[@bobok760]

Very clear explanation. Thanks!

[@OlympiaSM3]

Oh my - how nice to have it confirmed. I kept using weight alone, doing what the “experts” said I should do, getting gushers, then going back to the volume that worked best for my basket. Thank-you.

[@DrDGr2]

Very good ! Thank you

[@heytchap]

Damn. He really hit us with the “reject modernity, embrace tradition” meme phrase at the end there 💀😂

[@hshpegel]

I really enjoy your approach to providing information in your videos. Thank-you for you helping demystify so many of the espresso puzzles. I have a question only vaguely related to this topic: Is it true that keeping the freshly roasted beans in a vacuum will help keep them fresh?

[@wiredgourmet]

For ground coffee it helps, because there's so much surface area. Also, if whole beans are really dark and oily, it can help delay oxidized (rancid) surface oil. But think of the surface area vs volume of normal whole beans bought in home-user quantities. They'll be used up before they oxidize noticeably.

[@milovacc1195]

would you say that the spacing should be different between a 50 mm and 58 mm portafilter since the volume is dissimilar between the 2 pfs ????

[@ericrosenberg41]

I'm not sure I understand the final point about "paraphernalia ". Sure, the puqpress part I get, but what do the distribution tools have to do with finding the proper amount of coffee to fill in your basket? One is about volume, the other about seeking an even distribution of that volume of coffee. If I mound that proper volume and then tamp it won't it still be unevenly distributed and lead to channeling?

[@destructoooo]

Maybe he's saying a temper is enough when you learn the skills, even when it's unleveled, etc.

[@CristianStancu]

I've drawn the same conclusions after moving from the Gaggia Classic to the Lelit Elizabeth. The Gaggia had a lot more room between the shower screen and the coffee puck. The Elizabeth has a lot less. In a 18g VST basket, i cannot use 18g of ground coffee, as the shower screen is too close to the puck, with a washed ethiopia that i mainly use. I noticed that i cannot secure the portafilter with a 1.7mm thick puck screen. So i began to lower the dose from 18g to 17g and use a paper filter instead of the puck screen, mainly because of the cleanliness part. While the puck screen maybe convenient to use, it allows the coffee oils to pass through to the group and build up after a while. So the paper filter is a must for me. I was thinking the same thing, that nobody talks about this online. Good info given in this video. Thank you!

[@OlympiaSM3]

… well, don’t quite agree. Using the right amount for the basket - neither too much nor too little - is the message. I think this needed pointing out since none of the more watched KZbin espresso people, from what I’ve seen, have said it yet. Yes it’s simple, and it’s correct.

[@greatgameplayswalkthroughs660]

Because the holes in my basket are too big, I use a filter paper on the bottom of the basket to create more pressure.

[@colterdoerr6227]

curious to know the brand of that tamper and portafilter

[@platinumdynamite]

Is there substantial evidence that headspace impacts anything but the sogginess of the puck?

[@jmsaffroy]

Good for you that you can easily *see* how deep your shower screen ends in the basket (because your shower screen has this lip going just under the gasket), but with many machines it's a bit harder (you can measure, but that's less obvious visually). Different machines have shower screens that go to different depths, but it's even worse than that: you can use groups gaskets with different thickness, or decide to use a spacer below the gasket. And over time the gasket might become a bit thinner too. And there are different sizes for baskets, of course... So, assuming that you have a nice range of basket sizes, then I think it might make sense to start with the weight: you can then pick the appropriate basket size for a given coffee, grind size, weight, and available headspace on your machine with its current gasket. If you have just one basket (or few), then indeed you are first and foremost constrained by the volume of your coffee dose.

[@Luka-kb5tk]

As demonstrated in the video, it doesn’t matter about shower screen depth, and gasket as you have mentioned, as you can use the coin test to determine optimal headspace. You can then correlate that back to a weight for those particular beans. This is a starting point and can tweak as necessary based on taste. As its all about taste. The method shown is a guide, and takes some guess work out of the process. Of course beans have different density’s as pointed out in the video, therefore different particle grind size, and varying headspace. Then over time the beans age and the volume changes as you typically have to grind finer for the same weight. Another thing to keep in mind especially with 58mm filter baskets is that the bed depth is shallower than say say a 54mm filter basket machines, and therefor the shallower bed depth is more prone to channeling with a less than ideal bed depth. Therefore as per the video, optimising the bed depth is helpful.

[@igniss777]

nice

[@patposting]

I tried this and now all my joe tastes like 10p and 50c 😔

[@birdie299]

Does the use of a puck screen make the volume used less important? I think so on the Robot and Flair so is the same true for semi auto machines?

[@78pianist]

I just bought the same tamper for my Profitec pro 600. It's awesome how it looks and feels like a heavy duty joystic from classic arcade games from the 80s. Do you find that the tapering on the edges (somewhat more than usual) works well with any basket, including precision from IMS? Thanks.

[@hokie85ee]

Perhaps a dumb question...my shower screen is attached by a screw to my group head. In these basket and screen videos you show screens that sit on top of the portafilter basket and seem to include the group head gasket. To use one of these, do I remove the shower screen and gasket from my group head?

[@wiredgourmet]

No, add it don't replace it. never remove the shower screen except for cleaning.

[@mrgazillions]

Is that where ridged baskets comes in? I fill just under the ridge each time?

[@destructoooo]

Ridge is when the portafilter spring sits at, I think it has nothing to do with how much coffee to put in.

[@Winner8501]

I am just going to watch this comment section explode...

[@justinbouchard]

i've been waiting too lol

[@horstmickrautgor7067]

So, after seeing your newest video (puck prep) I came back here once again and everything totally makes sense do, BUT: Whats the practical approach to it? I still need a way to find out whats the best "fit" of a specific espresso, and it has to be reproducible. If I go by weight after finding out what a "perfect" volume this weight has, going by weight is on average still the best way? Otherwise I dont know how I can produce espresso without the need to check the perfect filling before every single espresso.

[@wiredgourmet]

When you dial in any new coffee, get the shot mechanics right, look for the right headspace and puck conditions and flavor, then make a note of the weight that gives good results. From then you can dose by weight, until you change coffees. I'm not saying don't weigh your coffee.

[@vncdvncd8331]

Everything he says here is right, but I fully understood it after few months of testing and watching this for a third time. What I do now and what really works both in weight and volume is putting beans into single dose tubes. Those tubes if fully filled can hold 16.5g of dark roast and 18g of medium roast. When I buy new coffee I just need to fill one tube fully and then measure weight of the beans. This way I always fill my basket the same, only the weight is changed depending on the beans type/roast. Its super easy this way

[@vncdvncd8331]

Forgot to mention that this volume is also perfect for my basket (2mm headspace)

[@myname-mz3lo]

dose by weight and choose the basket according to the volume that weight creates

[@Jarisuper]

So what about using a puck screen? Should we factor in its thickness too?

[@mechanicalmonk2020]

I don't think you need to. Most puck screens are about the same thickness as the ideal headspace and I think that's by design

[@destructoooo]

​@@mechanicalmonk2020by design also when using light roasted and dark roasted, different thickness screen.

[@kaotictube]

This makes so much sense yet so little of the other coffee-tubers ever mention it. It will however remove one variable and therefore limit recipe/volumes that you can do.

[@alexoita2620]

I see you got a Libra. how do you like it?

[@wiredgourmet]

Very impressed; review coming next week :)

[@speaknup8009]

Accurate dosing by volume isn't nearly as easy as by weight. I would like to see the suggested routine for grinding, (accurately) dosing by volume, and pulling a shot. It seems to me that the real message here is that we should not be complacent in ensuring we are using the correct size basket for the dose that we are using. The video offers a sensible way to test this. Once you have the correct sized basket for a given coffee and grind, then dosing by weight seems easier and with repeatable results. Really would like to see a more empirical approach to determining what is the optimal head space above the puck and how sensitive things are to variance from optimal. The video claims less channelling, greater consistency, and I think better taste? This needs to be tested.

[@thedude4795]

Nich J commented at the top of the comments that more headspace gave better extraction, in testing. Also; in this video the creator instructed us to weigh the amount of grinds that gave desired head space, and then remember that weight, to speed up work flow, but with that said I dont agree with the creator at all.

[@NickMayers-rj9zn]

definately dead on, but I would say that different machines will require slightly more or less volume in the basket, but using a coin is a good way to check (if you know the height of it). if you use a puck screen, I would put it on the prepaired ground before tamping so that you can take the puck screen into consideration when measuring the volume of the dose.

[@ReefBrosCanada]

The Espresso sub on Reddit lied to us! My life is a lie!

[@wiredgourmet]

A real first, eh :)

[@matijatatomirovic3351]

I am shocked how they make a brain surgery out of espresso making. I showed some of the modern fancy coffee making videos to my old timer local favorite baristas, who don't even call them selves that, and they all laughed, and served me their best shots without even looking at what they were doing.

[@daniel.lopresti]

It's the internet forum/social media effect. Any topic of interest / hobby will inevitably descend into increasingly obsessive ritualistic fanaticism when discussed at length by people with too much time and money on their hands, and not enough real world problems. ;) It wouldn't be such a problem if this fanaticism didn't typically only yield marginally diminishing returns.

[@3ede467]

My father also enjoys his freshly ground old-stock super market beans extracted on his 14 bar appliance using a pressurized portafilter. He loves the thick foam it produces to mimic crema.

[@michaelwalters4749]

Oh hey gatekeeping

[@barryhull6391]

@@daniel.loprestiexactly! Describe the reasonably objective/measureable principles that govern how to adjust your process, and then mark out where things start to be about personal preference. How far someone goes is ultimately up to them.

[@shinbluecloud]

Transparent filter basket had proved that the puck never expands during extraction.

[@destructoooo]

Maybe only 0.x mm? Not noticeable by eye.

[@phil0x2e]

Luckily not a concern with the Robot.

[@iftrebor6371]

And the Flair 58 :)

[@Grigory108]

And La Pavoni =)

[@KristianMortensen]

First!

[@dougd1617]

Show me a video where someone can blind taste the best shot because it was properly volumed (spoiler: you can't). Until then stuff like this is just pretentious nonsense that appeals to people because "OMG IT USES MATH SO IT MUST BE TRUE"

[@AntiATF]

He's not saying this makes better tasting coffee, this simply ensures you don't run into issues that under-filling or over-filling a basket can cause (ie: the puck hitting the shower screen when over filled, the puck being muddied and undistributed by the water when not full enough). It's just a way to easily figure out the dosage range for different coffees without having issues that mess with the dial-in process.

[@MereCashmere]

You've obviously never heard of david Schomer or the impetus of third wave coffee 😅😅

[@robertusga]

Yeah, not an issue with Decent DE1 and adaptive profiles. Weight for the win.

[@JesemanuelRamirez]

I mean you still have to weigh your coffee. Add water according to the weight of the coffee. Recipes are measured in ratios, so adjust acorningly and you don’t have a problem at all. The arbitrary 18g:36g is just a ratio of 1:2

[@partituravid]

I'm really interested in the subjext, but my ADD thought I was in math class and all I heard was AI blah blah blah like a school documentary from 1972.