Barotrauma and the Terrors of Technical Debt

In this video, I take a deep dive
Consider supporting what I do: / zyllius
Barotrauma:
store.steampowered.com/app/60...
Music used:
Maplestory - Perion Water Way

[@Regalis11]

Thank you for this video - very good analysis, thoughts and critique on the game. I also agree with most of the criticism here, the game falls short of the potential it could have in many regards. I think one of the main reasons for these problems is that I originally never thought the game would become this big nor that the development would last for nearly as long as it has. With the unexpected success of the Steam launch we've had the privilege of expanding the game a lot further than we initially planned, and that has meant that many of the technical and design decisions done in the earlier stages of the project have become problematic, and at this point it's extremely difficult (and resource-intensive) to address many of those problems. That being said, the sales are still going strong, so we are still in the very fortunate position where we can afford to keep the development going, keep addressing many of these issues, and slowly getting the game closer to reaching it's full potential. :) And of course, there could be a sequel at some point in the future, which would allow us to take what we've learned working on the first game and do things right from the very beginning...

[@DoshDoshington]

Thanks for showing up! It's always a concern when making these that I'm not saying anything interesting/insightful/important and turning into one of those "video essayists" who seem to enjoy listening to themselves talk more than the game they're supposed to be playing, so it's heartening to hear that from the developer. Hopefully I've adequately tempered all my points with an awareness of how difficult these things can be to actually implement, and that thinking about them is about a million times easier than actually programming them, but I'll reiterate that Barotrauma sets my imagination alight like none other. If you're looking for a professional ideas guy for Barotrauma 2: Bettertrauma, you know where to find me.

[@feldamar2]

"which would allow us to take what we've learned working on the first game and do things right from the very beginning..." Ah, I see someone is also a factorio player. And also knows how VAGUELY true that can be. Ok, my starter base is spaghetti, but my NEW base will be CLEAN and FIX all my problems... Oh...those dreams are SO nice to enjoy.

[@Regalis11]

​@@feldamar2 Yeah, in real life things often don't go as planned. :D Even if one somehow managed to avoid all the previous problems when starting from a clean slate, there's always going to be new problems to run into.

[@shadowsovereign4948]

Astronomically based developer

[@mochiboot6502]

Very good "hey investors we are a growth opportunity!" pitch.

[@adampope5107]

Wow just keep rubbing in that you have two friends.

[@skycrafter1509]

*slaves

[@eaglegosuperskarmor]

I thought I was playing this with more than one friend, but then I realised my crew consists of my brother, someone from high school I hadn't talked to in years until I saw steam say they played Barotrauma, that guys friend, and my one singular friend...

[@alexkaplan1136]

@@eaglegosuperskarmor well la di da, Mr. “Knows Four People.”

[@Gabriel_Ultrakill]

You don't have to show off you know 😒

[@copperhead5858]

@@eaglegosuperskarmor enough time, and a free horror game and you'll be unbreakable

[@LtDan-fy7lc]

Dosh: *Explains Technical Debt* Me, looking at my Factorio world: Yeah...

[@kapperbeastYT]

At least in Factorio you can rip up virtually any base in a few hours with a good amount of robots, and you get to keep all the materials

[@sun_serega]

​@@kapperbeastYT In code you can rip up everything instantly, and the materials aka. syntax constructions are unlimited (as [usually] are Factorio machines, as long as you automate crafting them) The main deterrent to doing that (both in Factorio and coding) is the time it would take to redesign everything. And you can be sure that redesigning only most of it and reattaching a part of the old base to avoid producing one annoying material in a new one - is a VERY bad idea. It basically multiplies the debt... Yet it's sometimes necessary when you realize you can't go straight to the perfect re-implementation: Because you need to test some part of the code working at least somehow, just to understand what perfection *is* / Because your old Factorio base production is not fast enough to build all machines in the new base before the death of the universe (or just your attention span).

[@jokerofspades-xt3bs]

I used the power of blueprints to fully destroy and replace my base that I used to launch a rocket. Now I can launch a rocket every 10 minutes

[@LtDan-fy7lc]

@@jokerofspades-xt3bs Nice, I am getting there, slowly but surely. I will admit that I have sinned and downloaded a time dilation mod that allows me to have RTS-like time controls (tbf I don't have a lot of time to play as I work full-time), and Helmod to help with the ratios, but I am almost at the point where I can automate Blue and Black Science. This is the furthest I have ever made it in Factorio in my ~330 hours of playtime, and it feels awesome, even if I technically "cheated". But to anyone questioning my Factorio integrity, I have also started an "All The Overhauls" campaign just to build character lol

[@Sky_Explorer]

@@LtDan-fy7lc It's okay to use mods, just play however you want and have fun. 🤗

[@mercutio1404]

An actual ex-submarine mechanic here and I can confirm that the psychological tests are in deed there to make sure you are just enough insane but not too much. could not stop laughing at that one sentence...

[@bananananananabatman8999]

Insane in the correct and useful way.

[@NickiRusin]

just like spacemen!

[@Yuki2204]

Useful insanity vs unproductive insanity

[@lagg1e]

Functionally insane. Because sane people might sue for damages, and dysfunctional insane people just aren't helpful.

[@secretname2670]

Same as recruitment for the army. If you have enough cogs wrong in your head and don't mind death in any shape of form, but in the way beneficial to the state, you are almost 100% sure to receive army offers at least once every year. Remember, don't overshare to strangers, and especially don't talk to feds.

[@tyrosinetek]

I work in IT, the scariest phrase I can hear is “We still use XP”

[@limiNZ]

SQL server 2000

[@supahvaporeon]

Want something even more terrifying? Cobal only machine.

[@scronchgoose7403]

XP isn’t… *that* bad. You know, as long as security is nonexistent on the priority list

[@pnjdumal]

Last week, i was asked to go do some server maintenance and backup for a hospital and... they... still use... 95........................

[@blindsniper35]

I came across something mildly terrifying a few years ago. An entire networked computer computer lab worth of computers running embedded Windows XP service pack 2. Luckily later I found out they didn't have internet access and lived on their own VLAN. The fact that none of these have gotten infected is probably thanks to the fact that people don't get USB spreadable XP viruses anymore. I wasn't as worried about the 95 or 98 computers. They're not networked and only have floppy drives. What terrifies me more than this. What's this ancient server do. Honestly that servers been here before I started working here and I was just told not to turn it off by the person who retired. I never had a reason to look into it.

[@Zulban48]

11:24 "Also sending out an active sonar ping doesn't immediately liquefy the innards of anyone outside the sub" ... unless you download the 'sonar pings immediately liquefy the innards of anyone outside the sub mod' of course, which is an actual mod and it's terrifying. I'm especially pleased that Highfleet got a mention in this video.

[@RedalertnoobieVOD]

Good old Real Sonar

[@sirbill_greebi3811]

I'm just gonna... make this part of my mod-pack, tell none of my friends, and then lose all of my friends.

[@RedalertnoobieVOD]

@@sirbill_greebi3811 quite literally lose them, if you don't adjust the settings and lower volumes and what not you will make them deaf IRL and can cause seizures

[@Neukend]

Vnimanije, noviy kontakt na sonare!

[@projectdeveloper9311]

@@RedalertnoobieVOD I'm already installing it, you don't need to convince me anymore lol

[@DoshDoshington]

I know you can click the button to repair faster.

[@Colorblind77]

xD

[@Kienflyby]

Nuh uh

[@approveddust8367]

Cap

[@lechking941]

on the topic of progression i know they are about to rework the ruins. so we may get narative elements and posably better relics but that last part is me. but they have got a number of change clearly in the works still. (so i suspect they know most of the problems ya have.) but im glad im not alone in love of this game.

[@user-xc4lq1zq2x]

you can click the button to repair faster

[@yesno9475]

Playing public servers on this game is so funny because it’s either a server where no fun is allowed, the most chill gaming session you’ve ever had, or the most brain rotting experience ever, with no in betweens

[@LeKusok]

In any gamelike this, there will be that one server like "Crew Zero"(russian hrp server), where no fun allowed and a bunch of "Me and the boys" servers where no seriousness allowed

[@themusesmagic7494]

A fun fact about repairing stuff is that it's actually a mini-game. If you noticed there is a white bar that shows up and moves to the left. When that white bar is on top of the colored part, you can click the "Repairing..." button again for a small boost in the repair. The bar resets to the right and you can keep doing this to speed up repairs. And yes, I did find this out at 200 hours when a friend who was knew to the game nonchalantly mentioned it to me in passing, promptly blowing my mind.

[@cookiemunchers89]

It too, took me over 100 hours to find that out

[@PandaSquared]

He must've learned over the course of the video because you can start to see him do it at 37:46

[@daklr2501]

wait are you serious....

[@badenbaden1372]

I only learned about this recently, I wonder why the game never teaches it

[@witheredgods]

Yeah, he does it in the video

[@Coolboy-zp9jg]

Dosh’s impression of an alarm at 40:57 is genuinely perfect I love it.

[@TheFirestormable]

I want someone to make an alarm mod that uses this sound as one of the choosable alarms

[@OctyabrAprelya]

@@TheFirestormable You can do that in Factorio. I think.

[@constantineandriyanov8200]

It was weird hearing it when I'm a Technology Connections watcher and already heard a very good klaxon impression from Alec in video "Klaxons; What makes them sound like that?". Like, if I had a nickel for every youtuber I watch who can successfully imitate a Klaxon, I would have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice.

[@pzrg]

Thats the first and probably last time that Dosh makes a noise that isn’t dull and monotone.

[@Neukend]

​@@constantineandriyanov8200shit, that was the first video i watched from this channel!

[@wrathisme4693]

*Dosh:* Can you guess what game I'm thinking of? *Me:* Noita! *Dosh:* That's right it's Factorio. *Me:* Oh yeah.

[@mateusfernandessantos3644]

Same here

[@OctyabrAprelya]

Ngl. I was expecting him to mention Noita's custom physics engine.

[@elfrangofrito]

It makes sense for people to guess Factorio because 90% of his videos are all about that game

[@CashewChickenEnjoyer]

Wonderful. Literally as I am looking up videos on what the fuck barotrauma (the game) actually is outside of a social experiment in how quickly humans will terrorize and rip each other apart given even the slightest capacity to do so, Dosh uploads this.

[@derpypotato677]

I know. Its so hard to find actual gameplay rather than an excellent example on why its amazing I don't have trust issues.

[@ightman712]

Welcome to barotrauma my friend. It is such a shit hole when it comes to the multiplayer

[@coolpeeper1269]

i guess im lucky cause i've only had maybe 3 griefers in my 10 player campaign server

[@ightman712]

@@coolpeeper1269 incredibly so.

[@patchmoulton5438]

I mean... have you seen what Mario Party does to people?

[@olive_n]

Just sat down with major diarrhea and pulled up the dosh channel to get me through it. God bless your timing

[@DoshDoshington]

Makin' a difference

[@elefantepolski7456]

unironically same.

[@billymcmedic4221]

Jesus Christ how many of us are there

[@disendromeder4347]

​@@billymcmedic4221weak ass stomach mfs, couldn't be me. I eat mushrooms I find in the woods

[@ariloulei814]

@@billymcmedic4221 IBS is pretty common these days... my problem is the opposite right now though. Wish I could poop soon.

[@mlk_713]

"Mighty morphine power rangers" is actually an incredible play on words. It's one of those things that is excellent in hindsight, but I think most people would probably never think up. Props to whoever concocted that name.

[@DoshDoshington]

IT WAS MEH

[@vanthom993]

Help i don't think i get it

[@physicsunderstander4958]

@@vanthom993 The mighty morphin' power rangers was a 90's kids' TV show about a group of teenagers who could transform into superheroes to fight a range of zany villains. The mighty morphine power rangers are a group of somewhat older adults who can transform all of the copper wire in an abandoned building into heroin. Explaining a joke is much like dissecting a frog - you understand it much better, but the frog is now dead.

[@RememberTheDuck]

@@physicsunderstander4958 I don't know, you explaining the joke made me chuckle.

[@ArgentCosmonaut]

@@physicsunderstander4958 Well, the flair 'transforming copper wire into heroin' at least makes the dissection get a good grade

[@duncathan_salt]

Hearing the SS13 clown honk as you said the words "exact game I want to play" was quite the jumpscare, despite the fact that I was thinking about SS13 for the entire video. I spent many years as the maintainer for tgstation's atmospheric simulation subsystem, which is a truly beautiful example of technical debt. I had a refactor PR with 800k lines changed. I fixed bugs that had been introduced when I was 3 years old. I pushed code that made the game completely unplayable to the production server... several times. I was raised in the fires of technical debt and sometimes I fear that I don't know anything else, even after all these years

[@hutchj27]

Goddamn, massive respect for doing that though. I can't even imagine the stress of managing something like that.

[@duncathan_salt]

@@hutchj27 Frankly, it was a lot less stressful than some other projects (volunteer or paid) I've managed lmao

[@Goobilicous]

I salute you. I play on Goonstation but I see them talking about the code in the Discord all the time and it always sounds like a bit of a headache lmao

[@DefaultFlame]

Have to give massive kudos for working on SS13 code. I'm not a programmer, but I know enough to know that it's a flaming ball of spaghetti rolling downhill that in some eldritch manner functions as a Ford pickup with a cappuccino machine and a constantly running microwave oven as integral parts of the engine.

[@duncathan_salt]

@@DefaultFlame Thank you. It's so much worse than you've been led to believe. For the record, the microwave is running a function called wzhzhzhzhzh() and I'm not even joking about that

[@TallMoose]

The runescape clip made me trip as the other half of my monitor is me chopping logs on OSRS

[@frankmckenneth9254]

Tripping is exp waste, unfortunate m8.

[@milolc]

I was training thieving on ardy knights lol OSRS is the best game to play while watching youtube.

[@nejsonsvejson9861]

i was got at cosmoteer

[@FirstLast-cg2nk]

Your discussion reminds me of Fear And Hunger, and a discussion of how one of the lengthy piles of spaghetti code could have been replaced with a two line code solution. The problem was, of course, that the single developer didn't know how to do that, so he basically had to type out hundreds of lines of code to do the thing he wanted to. An indie dev is going to have a lot of limits on what he knows how to do.

[@kapperbeastYT]

Similar to how I assigned my very new programming students to make a calculator for how many seconds old they are from their birthdate, so they started by figuring out how many years, and how many days etc., multiplying them up to get seconds total. After they had finished after about 2hrs work, I showed them the how to do it simply in 2 lines. A bit of a dick move I admit, but it hammered home the importance of research and experience, when I showed them the built in DateTime class documentation

[@32BitJunkie]

Well now i want to know what this uber elegant fix was. Also is this on a dev podcast or something?

[@FirstLast-cg2nk]

@@32BitJunkie I know it was on a video by either AllBonesJones or Frapollo94, but I can't remember which one it was. I know it was a video about one of the systems, why it was kinda bugged, and how it could have been fixed. It's just been so long since I last saw it.

[@Dmitrisnikioff]

It's not just that the alternative to graphics is hard: It's also not easily quantifiable. Better graphics is something you can literally point at and show: a well balanced gameplay element meanwhile is less easily noticed because ideally, if it's perfect, you never have to think too hard about its inclusion.

[@DoshDoshington]

That's true, like all those sports games pouring millions of dollars into realistic sweat rendering technology. It's something people can understand at a glance as being, "Better"

[@gingermcgingin4106]

On the other hand, the most cutting-edge photorealistic graphics are going to look like crap 5 years later. It's way more important to have good art direction than graphics, but then again what does a pleb like me know?

[@adampope5107]

​​@@gingermcgingin4106it's even worse. I stop noticing after a few minutes because those amazing graphical improvements are, in the grand scheme of the game, small things that I stop noticing after a few minutes. Graphics have essentially smacked hard into the wall of extremely diminished returns.

[@Ylyrra]

@@adampope5107 Yeah, but you only STOP noticing after you've bought the game and started playing. Whereas gameplay elements that are better are something you only DISCOVER after you've bought the game. ie One gets you people interested and convinces them to buy and the other is only a factor if they've already bought, guess which gets you more sales...

[@TheUnholy_]

Genetic dead-ends is by far the best insult I've ever heard for cheaters

[@R4d6]

Do note that the Gravity Thing at 11:00 is actually part of the lore. While the game does happen under Europa, it's more specifically happening around a gravitational anomaly refered to as The Eye of Europa, which is your destination in the campaign, and also the reason why there is the same gravity as on Earth.

[@Colorblind77]

Dosh: "You don't see that kind of acrobatics in Rain World" 40 page document for movement in Rain world: "You sure?"

[@DoshDoshington]

I was using acrobatics sarcastically to describe the limb flailing, but yeah Rain World has some beautiful acrobatics (actual)

[@Colorblind77]

@@DoshDoshington sure, i understand, but i couldn't nor tell the joke

[@AlexanderNash]

I love the idea that all of the enemies just want to attack you to shut up the sonar.

[@eldonad]

Also worth noting that these monsters are probably blind, given that there is no light at all in their environment, so from their perspective it would be as if tiny mosquitoes were flying in their home periodically emitting blinding amounts of light while they were trying to sleep. I would be pissed too.

[@Chocolate83Bunny]

It is pretty technically accurate as enemies mostly only know your there and start attacking if you ping them with radar

[@holomatic1549]

It is worth noting that this "idea" is how the game actually draws aggro! People might not notice and/or may not be compelled to try since explosive action is overall more enjoyable, but up to the finale you are 100% able to complete the game without weapons of any sort, because simply put, you can rely on not making noises and outspeeding your enemies. ... Although the stats for each monster I'd believe would need to be tweaked to be more noticeable, and even if they were, some mechanic would have to be implemented that makes this specific case to appear more obvious; the only pure example of this are (all) the Moloch variants, being completely blind and based out of sound.

[@an_asp]

My favorite way to "upgrade" submarines in Barotrama is to dedicate a wall to the circuit blocks in order to install a PID controller (well, specifically just a PI controller) to control the reactor and obsolete my job. The game already has a reactor automation feature, but it's deliberately very slow to react in order to ensure that a human operator is better. But simple proportional and integral control is enough to control the reactor MORE accurately than a human, so it feels like you've accomplished something really cool towards improving your sub.

[@Uberrandom]

While I agree that they needed to be nerfed, I do sort of miss the old bang-bang reactor controllers.

[@shukuga2]

Don't forget to add a regulator and a battery to the oxygen generator so it isn't running on maximum all the time.

[@deadworldinfamy]

Hi dosh, beans

[@Joseph_Leroy]

AEANS BEANS CEANS DEANS EEANS FEANS GEANS HEANS IEANS JEANS KEANS LEANS MEANS NEANS OEANS PEANS QEANS REANS SEANS TEANS UEANS VEANS WEANS XEANS YEANS ZEANS

[@moosetwin9023]

how dare you trigger his PTSD

[@cryochick9044]

BEANS? BEANS BEANS? kzbin.infoUgkxol7nFdp4Cp6w2NjwzrKNp98_KaOdyyPL?si=nF_u8DqnXwslkc3m

[@Kira_x86_64]

beans

[@alexkaplan1136]

Damn you just had to go there

[@andreiha1669]

Never expected Dosh to play this game, but I love that you did.

[@NO-jf5ut]

a frustrating game where death means restarting? thats basically his mo outside factorio (not meant to be meab just tryina be funny)

[@JackEhttack]

You've managed to perfectly encapsulate all of my frustrations as a game developer. I want to make something, but having to balance technical debt and optimizations for the start of any idea completely drains all of my energy. From that I have a pile of barely touched projects that will likely never see the light of day. Either I start a project with good well thought out code and burn out before it's playable, or spaghetti all over the place and give up because it's too hard to work with the codebase. Best course of action I can think of is to make highly modular prototypes that just barely work, build on top of it and replace spaghetti coded modules as needed. Paying off technical debt in small sums instead of tearing everything down with a single lump sum rewrite.

[@hutchj27]

Extremely, extremely relatable. All I can say is: best of luck out there and may whatever you're working on now flourish.

[@XxZeldaxXXxLinkxX]

I don't know how the devs of caves of qud and dwarf fortress do it. Like, what kind of legendary codebase do they have that active development can take place for years with loads of new content that don't break the game? TEACH ME THE BLACK MAGIC

[@TBFondl669]

​@@XxZeldaxXXxLinkxXI mean the DF developers did have to re-factor the entire code base to get multi threading working

[@SkigBiggler]

@@XxZeldaxXXxLinkxXIn Dwarf Fortress’ case I think it’s more that the guy developing it just does it how he knows. If you’re not aware of how much easier working with your codebase could be, you get a lot less frustrated by it, it’s just “the way things are”.

[@SkigBiggler]

I’m trying to approach my game dev the same way. Developing specific ideas and implementing them in a generic enough manner that if something does work I can just stick it in the codebase and work from there, and if it doesn’t I won’t have spent an absurd amount of time on it.

[@SenseiJamesX]

I was not expecting to hear Overgrowth mentioned, but I'm so glad it did. I've been following the development of that game since near its origins, going so far back that I played Lugaru. I still do dabble in Overgrowth every now and then because the way the combat works fascinates me and who doesn't love ragdolls? Lugaru even had a "scent system" that was built around wind so you had to kill enemies in areas and wipe off the blood off of your weapons in places that won't attract enemies, or do it in places that will allow you more stealth kills. I also recall that the different kinds of animals had unique traits. The wolves had an incredible sense of smell and were all-round stronger, the bunnies had amazing hearing and dexterity, etc etc. The entire experience of Lugaru and Overgrowth were just phenomenal and I'm so glad Overgrowth's Workshop community keep it alive.

[@alexadamsky]

That KSP discussion hit home. So sad the studio closed this week.

[@KellyWu04]

The amount of copium surrounding KSP 2 is insane.

[@NickiRusin]

they CLOSED??? fucking damn it

[@joneydew4739]

I'm not too sad about it since, as he said, they copied KSP 1 spaghetti code. Meaning it might as well be a KSP 1 mod, which there's plenty of better mods.

[@beefstew6512]

@@KellyWu04 im sad the game died because i really liked the idea of multiple star systems to explore, especially if the rp1 devs got there hands on it, at the same time im happy that people that buy pre order early access games get shit on again

[@jonaut5705]

@@beefstew6512 hey, that's what the mods are for get kspie and some star system mods for interstellar travel, luna for multiplayer, some part packs for the colonies, get it all on ckan plus some graphics mods and you're good

[@Izithel]

2:30 I think one of the reasons we're seeing a rise in more CooP PVE experiences is a general age shift in the gaming population. The pressure to do well in PVP, the stress it causes, the toxicity that emerges, as we get older we get enough of that in our day-to-day lives to not want that as much in our gaming. And with gaming being less of a taboo or "childish" thing these days, it's much easier as an adult to find other people to play with. Cheating not affecting ones enjoyment as much in a PVE game is just a cherry on top.

[@ManuelJRG_]

I love the fact that Rain World is now widely considered to be the gold standard for environmental simulation and procedural animation. I need to play more Barotrauma now, good video, Dosh.

[@casualsilver2702]

One of the ideas the people I've played with that we've been bandying around is the idea of a cooking update. The idea of frying up some crawler to fill the bellies of the crew is just so theraputic to me that I really wish it would be a thing. Also, can confirm that larger crews are the better experience because you can utilize bigger subs, organize and react to stuff even worse, and the diversity in depravity in how certain crew members kept killing station personnel via drowning with no apparent consequence.

[@fang4223]

My favorite way of vetting how much responsibility I'm trusting my friends with as first time players is assigning them to reactor duty. The longer they go without caving and cramming a fuel rod in each slot for the FUCKING DUGONG, is a pretty good barometer for how good they’re gonna be at this or that job. The excuses I've gotten range from Logical ("I thought it would help it spool up faster.") to the unexplainable yet inevitable ("I was curious") to the outright malicious ("It was funny"). Only one lasted longer then a single round, and I always stick with simple, short cargo transport missions for this introduction. I quickly learned that the longer we go without incidents, the worse it’s gonna be when it happens.

[@TBFondl669]

I would usually use circuits to jerry-rig a system that allowed me to slam all the rods into the reactor. It worked but usually the ship slowed wsy the fuck down

[@TheNerdling]

For those of us that don't know, why is it a bad idea??

[@NickiRusin]

​@@TheNerdlingif I remember correctly irl that melts the reactor, dunno what it does in the game though

[@iumiforgot]

@@TheNerdling if done right, it lowers the amount of fuel-rod replacing the engineer has to do, at the cost of making the engine a little slower to respond to grid changes. if done wrong it overheats the reactor.. or if the captain stupidly slams the engine from full throttle to idle

[@TwiliPaladin]

Tbf, "it was funny" is a valid reason to sabotage the run.

[@sparkymotive]

New Dosh vid dropped right after dinner? What a great night!

[@Mrunibro]

I should not have stayed up long enough to witness a Dosh upload, now I've really done it. This will be a "sunrise before sleep" kind of night

[@bewawolf19]

It's always funny hearing someone unexpectedly reference SS13 whilst playing the game.

[@theroaringdragon306]

The reason why the junction like to burst into flames can be two reasons. A. Difficulty can just make it so it just randomly catch fire. B. The more likely reason is the reactor overloading and the junction boxes are hitting max capacity of the boxes and when sustained for to long at this level it will burst into flame. Now why this happens most of the time at the beginning of a game is because everyone sets it to AI control but AI is not as reactive as a human so the slow start up can sometimes lead to the reactor overloading the boxes.

[@DoshDoshington]

I was playing on the highest difficulty, so I'll believe it's the first

[@shukuga2]

Some wiring setups can create feedback loops that overload the boxes. I think loading into the map can trigger them. I'd imagine it's most common with automated battery backups or multiple reactors.

[@odpieces]

No warning for the Navier-Stokes jumpscare!!?!??!??!! Man I just passed Transport Phenomena and I felt the neurons violently refire

[@wannabe8138]

One of my favorite youtubers, posting a video on one of my favorite underated games. Weekend just got better.

[@dylancampbell3356]

Dosh has inspired me to use Nutty Putty as a verb now. 'Lunch was an hour ago but I'm fuckin nutty puttyed in this meeting right now.'

[@herosvicentegonzalez7872]

6:15 you can actually repair things a lot faster if you click the button again when the thin bar is inside the hp bar

[@Sopsy_Hallow]

yeah, but i dont blame him for not knowing, wish the game teaches those kinds of things to players (but i do get that it might be a lot to teach in total, tho tooltips and menu tips/loading tips are always options too)

[@DoshDoshington]

I think there's like, one or two clips where I'm actually doing it

[@caseyk4202]

yeah one day they just added the minigame without changing the menu and literally nobody to this day I talk to ingame knows about it

[@mogaming163]

@@caseyk4202 ikr

[@KCzz15]

@@Sopsy_Hallow 37:46

[@Ostentatiousnessness]

0:07 I mean, we discovered all (or most, I can't remember which) of the planets in our solar system, with MATH no less, before we even found Antarctica.

[@karl0ssus1]

Pluto was post Antarctica, but then the thing happened and it got demoted, so you are technically correct, which is the best kind of correct.

[@brewedjuice494]

i love your factorio videos a lot, its how i found you, but these more "philosophical" videos about game design are easily some of my favorites on youtube. its nice to know someone besides me is pondering stuff like this.

[@officialspoodle]

Your reviews / discussions about different games are always my favorite videos of yours! You've got a very eloquent and comprehensive way of covering them. Now you need to cover Space Station 13 ;)

[@RetroDelete]

It's always a good day when Dosh uploads a new video. Thanks dosh!

[@NotShilKa]

Watching this just before enlisting. Thanks for everything man, see you again in a few months

[@DoshDoshington]

Uh, good luck?

[@MezzoForte4]

Serving your country is cringe. There are way better methods of wasting your life. 🤦

[@ashtonschwenke]

@@MezzoForte4 no need for that attitude

[@badasson8825]

You know it’s a good video when Dosh starts the video with ghosts and stuff Lord sif dance meme

[@EmbersDawn117]

Your videos are great Dosh! Would enjoy more videos like this, although ive been absolutely addicted to your factorio content for like the last week.

[@ZIHL]

i just needed this video thank you i was serching for a long form vid of barotrauma and then you drop on thank you

[@MrMaradok]

As someone who’s never played, the only suggestion I could give to the game would be things that have interesting benefits, but equally interesting drawbacks: - You could find a blob-thing that likes keeping the room it’s on fully repaired, but it also draws a LOT of energy to do so - how about a school of fish monsters that you could follow to lead you to their den, allowing you to risk diving into it for loot - maybe you’ll find a base that’s overrun by fungus monsters, but so long as you walk slowly and DON’T USE FIRE, they’ll keep pretending to be human, and thus allow you to utilize the base, maybe to purchase that strange Blob-Thing mentioned earlier Stuff like that

[@thomassoto4920]

Actually some of the things you've mentioned are already in the game, most cave systems contain minerals but also are majorly dangerous due to local wildlife, also there are events where cities or outposts have been overrun by pirates/fungus/nests , I'd recommend you'd try it it's really fun(with friends)

[@ruku3264]

woah i was just about to sleep. perfect time to listen to his soothing voice

[@hylomane]

Dosh, when I see your videos, I click like just as it starts. They are always a treat.

[@scottcrow]

Excellent video Dosh, yet another classic.

[@siigonis]

When you are about to go sleep, but Dosh release 40 minutes video... I guess no sleep tonight.

[@j.n.9572]

Same

[@Beast777u]

Just got into bed and saw this, I wont be sleeping anytime soon.

[@ALoser-ThisIsTotallyUnique]

im so tired im about to fall asleep watching, but i've got my priorities straight.

[@Coolboy-zp9jg]

It’s very nice that you can tell Dosh is passionate about the game’s success. Hopefully in time the game can be the best it can be.

[@mccutcheogeoff]

I think you do a great job of explaining the ins and outs of video games and their technicalities. Your channel is easily one of my favorite sources for deep dives on all things gaming. Keep up the great work!

[@JakeHowie]

Not the game I expected from this channel but I am all for it!

[@battysparton65]

As someone who did development work for a Space Station 13 server.... god Technical Debt is real and alive in that game. Unless you have a extremely curated code base like CM13 or Goonstation... its a mess. However its a mess that... mostly works. Its also a mess that only someone who came long before you only understands and didn't always leave comments so you have to scratch your head and figure out what they did. And even then you don't always fully understand the Technical debt. You just inherit it.

[@eldonad]

Doesn't help that the game is written for one of the most cursed game engine I ever encountered in a language no other popular game uses, and for very good reasons ! I'm still not sure if the design of Byond was just the right amount of insane to allow SS13 to happen, or if it grew in spite of it. Still, beyond impressive that it manages to somehow work all these years later.

[@ValoTheBrute]

The server I work on has such a weird offshoot codebase of its own we can only port from our downstreams and our downstreams have already worse quality code than our abysmal jank. There's lore about the code. Stories of Old headcoders and particular fuckups like someone spelling the word "Double" wrong so consistently it's easier to just keep everything misspelt as "Dobole"

[@darkprism1940]

Twice I've been blasted by high amounts of water from something big hitting the boat. The first time was in a smaller boat in a vanilla server I had setup with a friend so I could get a grasp for how the game worked, and they were somehow able to save me. The second time was in a 40k modded server a group of they're friends had setup, and the ship was so large that I was easily lost and died from my injuries. If terrible things start to happen, and you feel the hull might break, rush for a diving suit of sorts. Trust me, pressurised water hitting you at mach speeds will not feel too good.

[@KennyWgaming]

Just wanted to drop a comment and say thanks for the video. I watched your ADOM video one day and after that I am basically just here waiting for the next random game you'll talk about. Great stuff 👍

[@zandveerx]

Yo, super glad to see another game review/ spiritual journey vid from you. Keep it up. Also, I would like to put fourth Against the Storm as a game you might like.

[@clarkedawe3464]

This vid says a lot of things I’ve been thinking for a long time, but haven’t had the words to say. I’ve been playing the game for a long time, have designed a bunch of submarines, played with friends, played in random lobbies, played by myself, and I generally have had a very good time. I will say, public lobbies are always operating on a complete polarity, either being in some custom overpowered sub where it has 10 guns on the top and bottom and the captain (who does everything) is some douchebag with a god complex, or it’s a lobby that never manages to get out from the station because everybody gets merked by the oh-so-funny never-gets-old method of security shooting people, doctors overdosing people on meth, and everyone else either dying in the airlock or rewiring the entire sub. I really liked you ideas for how to make the game more engaging and promoting teamwork, but I feel like the game is torn between its roots (ss13), and something more serious. But if we’re talking ideas, I’ve always thought of making it so mounted guns don’t let you directly see your targets, instead a blip or some kind of representation of the target is shown in its place. Think alien isolation or duskers. I’ll finish up this way too long comment with an anecdote: One of the most memorable lobbies I’ve ever been part of was one where the philosophy was “NO DAWDLING.” Basically the captain and lobby host put a huge emphasis on doing everything as fast as possible with as little downtime as possible. No 20 min trips to the outpost, it was in and out. No sitting around at the ship waiting on people to finish a mission, we had to go ahead and clear out a thalamus or mine for resources. No waiting on people to make stuff at the fabricator, it either got made in between stuff or didn’t get made at all. As long as we kept doing stuff as frantically as possible, random people who would usually grief the hell out of you would actually chip in. It was a stacked lobby, like 8-12 people at a time, and we got all the way to the third biome in one sitting without anything horrible happening. We even bum-rushed a pirate vessel by strapping a shit ton of c4 to the bottom of our sub and then dove directly on top of their reactor. So much fun.

[@3thanguy7]

absolutely insane segue to open the video with

[@sjxbabfjaicjandne4666]

Dosh's evolution in narration and vibes from the first few Factorio videos to this is awesome. Love the video n I'm only 15 minutes in

[@random_russian_dude]

Bro found my personal sourse of pain and clowning

[@MrDrakonion]

It's 3:07 AM here. Hehe. Love falling asleep to Dosh's voiceovers anyways.

[@sergeyrogatin9682]

The Witness does have some unique requirements for an engine, like the perspective puzzles and some lighting stuff. It also looked amazing for the time and had great performance, so I'd say the decision paid off. And yes, Blow hates all third party software, so it's probably a big part of it lol

[@TheToastedBiscuit]

Glad you're branching out like you said you wanted to on that podcast. I especially like all the extra programming and game design tangents you go into.

[@SpunkMayo]

Really glad to see you branching out.

[@freazing89]

the dancing palpatine is just so Dosh

[@Ros_Sample]

Speaking of technical debt... SS13 essay when?

[@eatham.]

dosh tide might not be terrible tbh

[@tlank7933]

I really want to play SS13, but with how "weird" it feels, I'm sticking to SS14.

[@CoalOres]

@@tlank7933 It's funny, I've played SS13 for so long I feel the same way about trying SS14.

[@eatham.]

@@CoalOres i play unitystation which is much smaller but closer to ss13

[@D4n0w4r]

the golden age of ss13 has been over for a long, long time. SS14 doesn't bode well with how they want to handle universal bans and whatnot either. Also, pixel movement is a horrible idea.

[@novagamer2175]

beautiful Dosh, perfection, I really hope the devs watch this and take notes or take action, you really slapped everything in the rear lmao

[@antoneeee9284]

I was not expecting you to do a video on Barotrauma. Pretty cool!

[@hermaeusmora4874]

Really happy to see you take on this Finnish game 💪🏻

[@physicsunderstander4958]

I never knew that barotrauma was made by Finnish devs, but now that you've said it it makes perfect sense.

[@hermaeusmora4874]

@@physicsunderstander4958 Cold, dark, depressing. Yup yup, checks all the marks 🇫🇮

[@tlank7933]

I only knew it was from the same devs from SCP: Containment Breach, not that they were Finnish, cool.

[@physicsunderstander4958]

@@hermaeusmora4874 Cold, dark, depressing, zany physics engine, wacky monsters. It checks just about all the boxes.

[@hermaeusmora4874]

@@physicsunderstander4958 true true I, personally, am one of those wacky monsters

[@heskelator3240]

6:30 if you click repair again when the white bar is within the repaired section you get a boost to repair rate so you repair faster. Very minor QuickTime event. Nvm you do it at 37:49 11:30 if you want sonar to liquefy your crew's insides there's a mod for that 13:52 I mean you see some pretty impressive acrobatics in rain world at the higher level of gameplay 26:15 iirc there's a "mineral scanner" upgrade that shows you which minerals are present in a small cave if within range which is useful for spotting said useful minerals like uranium for spare fuel rods 39:33 I hope you know about passive sonar and how active sonar attracts enemy attention haha

[@tlank7933]

Almost everything makes sound, your sonar, engine, reactor, gunshots, turret shots, footsteps and all attract entities.

[@fang4223]

@@tlank7933at different ranges each, and they don’t stack, just with the loudest taking priority. If your running dark (passive sonar, reactor off, battery power) things’ll have a hard time finding you typically. Most players that think decoy depth charges don’t work is usually because they don’t know about it this.

[@tlank7933]

@@fang4223 Thanks for adding that to my comment.

[@poofrick2111]

been playing this game for years its great to see you cover it

[@StandardGaming]

I've spent the last 4 year covering the development of the game- watching how the devs navigate and expand the limits of the design space has been fascinating- it's imperfect but I really love it and keep coming back One thing- there is some narrative continuity in the campaign in the form of story missions, special crew members, and faction interactions- but I agree there could be broader ramifications for those ALSO, for sub tiers there is a mechanic ability- the end of the scrapper skill tree- which allows you to upgrade tier 2 subs with tier 3 parts. That entails getting a mechanic to that level and choosing that skill tree, but it's doable.

[@notloopers1110]

damn, hyped that dosh is going from horrors on land to horrors in space to horrors under the water hyped for the space station 13

[@stuff_3541]

I agree with most of your statements in the video but i am surprised you did not mention the moding seen of the game. For some if not all of your complaints can be solved with a mod. Ex not being able to change your sub up to your liking try barocraftables or want more realistic healing try neurotrauma. Thanks for reading and i do agree, we need an AWWWOOOGGAAA alarm.

[@martinb.3453]

Another excellent video as always

[@BadhamKnibbs]

Was not expecting a dosh video on Baro right in the middle of my obsession with it, hell yeah

[@tarvitz]

This whole video, there was one game I was expecting to come up, but, oddly, didn't, despite its seeming relevance, Space Engineers, which has a lot of the same issues, but also doesn't have a good number of them. It's sort of like space Minecraft, you get dropped into an empty world with effectively nothing except the bare essentials, and no defined goals. However, unlike Minecraft, (and Barotrauma), there is no end goal, if you don't know what you need to do, it can appear as if there is nothing to do, which is a problem that could have existed in Minecraft, in theory, but massive popularity saved it from that. It is not necessarily impossible to intuit what to do, you have a drill, the drill marks ore deposits on your HUD, go get some ore, but, then what do you do with it? Nothing. You can't process ore yet. No, what you actually need to do is mine stone, and put that into one specific block on your starter ship, in order for it to be refined into a mixed blend of various starting materials. Then, these materials need to be once again processed into the actual building supplies you will use to build every one of the game's various building blocks. Then, once you understand the building process, which, to be fair, isn't as complicated to understand as I've made it out to be, then what? There is no incentive to leave your starting planet, to do, well, anything. But, this, of course, forces you to make your own fun, unlike barotrauma, which, by having missions, makes the player assume there is no point in doing anything, if it is not for a mission. For example, at no point does the game say "go to Europa", but, if you do choose to go to Europa, the surface is almost entirely ice, one of the most useful materials in the game, as it can be converted into hydrogen, to power hydrogen thrusters, the perfect site to build a refuelling station. Or, on a more simple level, if it takes too long to gather ore, build a bigger mining ship. This open-endedness, much like that of Minecraft, is, by far, its greatest strength, you set your own goals, and your own win conditions. Let's say you want to do a barotrauma, and make one big, central ship, from which you will do everything, as opposed to a set of smaller ships, or a planetary base. Well, you simply can, there's nothing standing in your way other than the time and effort to design and construct it. Gameplay aside, there are also a few technical similarities to barotrauma, not to mention a few differences. First and foremost, the physics jank, "clang", as some call it (including the developers), it's not as bad as it could be, and has been improved on over time, but it is very much there. Space Engineers uses an entirely in-house engine, however, it isn't fully custom for SE, as the developers did use it for some other games, before and after it. Unlike Barotrauma, there is no water at all, which saves them from the complexity of water physics, which they intend to do away with in the sequel by adding water physics. I don't really have a conclusion to all of this, other than saying I don't really have a conclusion to all of this, but I think you'd like Space Engineers, assuming that you've not already played it.

[@DoshDoshington]

Ah yes, the ballad of Spengies

[@Konraden]

What mod of Factorio is this?

[@killingtimeitself]

ultra pain and suffering (no factory building) mod

[@Chrisyn2008]

After hearing Dosh say 'Sonar' and 'liquify' Iam intrigued enough to inform myself.. Pretty neat thing i never thought about, but really intresting. Thanks Dosh, for making me expand my horizon

[@geckorise4746]

Didn't expect you to play this game! But i am glad you did so, makes a very great video

[@asturias0267]

I haven't played the game in over a year now. My group all stopped playing after a big update to the inventory system. Where we left off last in our campaign we already had to do a lot of inventory management before making our way through an area that already killed us 3 times. When we came back to the game just to see that now our lockers were bursting with all the resources we collected took the wind out of our sails. Inventory management is by far my biggest gripe with the game. Previously we had the locker linked to the crafting station full of suitcases so we could store more stuff and keep things organized. Now I don't even think suitcases can be put in that locker and it felt like you could store way less that the previous, already miniscule storage system. Ideally I'd love for them to have a bottomless storage container linked to the crafting station. No stack size limit inside the container, sorting functions, filters, the works. Alas, that won't happen and my friends have already given up on coming back to the game with me.

[@theslavegamer]

you can put suitcases in the lockers but only 5. Theres special slots for them now. Also if I were you and your friends I would wait for a big update (one coming soon) and start a new campaign with some mods

[@Coconut-219]

Yeah, if their complaint was REALLY "we want to simplify inventory management" and "performance" then just giving the fabricator a giant internal 'buffer' that the game doesn't need to constantly simulate would have been a logical solution. In reality all it did was make inventory management more complex. Had the same burnout happen with my friends group, but mostly around the balancing issues of the new 'talents' system and how some of them trivialize/obsolete the preexisting 'skill' system, and the new restrictions on submarine 'tiers'

[@Imdrekaiser]

BAROTRAUMAAA

[@SomeoneYouDontKnowOfficial]

6:20 I don't know if this is rare knowledge but that little white line that goes into the coloured part of the bar is an indicator for you to use. When you repair if that while line is in the coloured bar you can click the repair button again and it speeds up. It get's exponentially more effectives as the distance the white line has to travel decreases as the repair gets finished. It's a lot more fun and satisfying to do than sitting there and it's definitely faster and I think gives extra xp to that skill (but I'm not sure about the xp part)

[@TiakOSRS]

Born too late to explore the earth Born too early to explore the stars Born at just the right time to be too scared to explore the ocean

[@NijahPlays]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned that the devs ALSO MADE SCP CONTAINMENT BREACH

[@syd4952]

I’ve played and modded this game for years. At this point I don’t even know why I mod it anymore. It’s very satisfying to work on but I always find myself disappointed while playing it. The developers seem preoccupied with working on whatever new idea or distraction catches their fancy over actually improving or fixing the game. As far as I (and most of the modding community can see) they don’t have much intention or drive to improve the game and this is about what’s it’s going to look like in ten years time.

[@Guardian-of-Light137]

No WAY you just uploaded a vid on one of my top 5 favorite games. I am gonna enjoy this! ... I'm not good at it but I still love this game.

[@potatoesstarch2376]

Good video. Insightful, well iterated, concepts translated well even for relative beginners. Good stuff.

[@Ethan-ui2rn]

When Dosh was asked for his flavor of autism, he chose neapolitan

[@strcmdrbookwyrm]

So what I'm hearing is that Barotrauma is a good game with a lot of potential. The only bad part about having a lot of potential is that it probably won't live up to it (without outside help anyway). I just hope that others will take the ideas and expand on them in their own way, and that we'll see more high quality Barotraumas in the future. Personally, what I think could be fun would be a 3-way fusion between Barotrauma, Lethal Company or Content Warning, and Iron Lung. Something not to complicated that focuses on the exploration aspect, while keeping some of the sub combat for when something big shows up.

[@ronanhartman8942]

Nice to see you sp[reading out from equally insane factorio challenges into more insane games!

[@djviperx]

My horrible Saturday is all of the sudden saved. Thank you Dosh!!! A day with a new Dosh video is a good day! BEANS!

[@drakoniid8641]

2:35 DRG mentioned ! You know what is means, Miners ! ROCK AND STONE !

[@dorianhargis6246]

GIVE ME A ROCK AND STONE!

[@berrybluebird3842]

WE'RE RICH!

[@thomascroyle575]

I met him actually on drg it was fun!

[@Voice_of_p]

well thought out technical arguments? You got yourself a new subscriber!

[@tgxnothing5766]

loved this video, I'm always excited to see more submarine content

[@hanscooks3027]

A storm, and DD video? Perfect evening