Dota 2 Hero Spotlight - Monkey King

[@Spooky_Bard]

With this and the Treant Protector changes, people are just gonna be so paranoid around trees now. Timbersaw was right!

[@88TechnoAbhi88]

so true!! xD

[@daveabbymangampoalano655]

Someone once told me I needed to face fear to get over it, and I thought well why not take a step further and cut my fear into little pieces then set my fear on fire then throw the hot ash of my fear into a lake and then poison the lake. Simple!

[@BlueWoWTaylan]

Well, even more reason to quelling blade or pick Timbersaw now :P

[@bighelio1093]

Spoony Bard run forest runnnnnnn

[@vatroslavmorbidovic4105]

LMAO

[@TimLimDimSims]

Im a League player primarily but I just love how every MOBA has their own interpretation of this piece of Chinese mythology. Wukong in League seems much simpler and more dull compared in this obviously to trade of and be a more beginner friendly hero. In Smite the old Wukong looked ridiculously ugly but the new one looks badass. This one looks very fun as well.

[@DivineBanana]

He's a bit more complex since this comment with his W changes but no league champ will ever compare in complexity to dota champs

[@TimLimDimSims]

@@DivineBanana It depends on each champion individually. Sure, we don’t have anyone that’s an invoked (because Riot doesn’t want someone to have to learn someone so complicated if they want to counter him) But Aphelios compared to Sniper?

[@DivineBanana]

@@TimLimDimSims forgot about apehlios lol but he's an exception not a norm 😂

[@Luxy1411]

@@TimLimDimSims League technically has a mini-Invoker now btw.

[@Jason-qr2et]

Beastmaster, the perfect counter to monkey king. 1. Monkey King is a beast. 2. Beastmaster's Hawk can see him 3. Beastmaster can cut trees giving Monkey King a 4 second stun. 4. Beastmaster has his stun adding to Monkey King's 4 second stun. 5. Rip Monkey King

[@VSM101]

Yeah like the tree jumping us nessary lol

[@SmokeDankTreeDaily]

this comment didnt age well

[@GravityTrash]

Prophunt in DOTA 2, anyone?

[@chaoticmidnight1783]

Goddamnit please stay in Garry's mod, Prop Hunt!

[@phabiann-rossdecarvalho5384]

I think that'd actually be pretty fun

[@moonsieur5372]

Pix Tron exactly my thoughts about it.

[@lena_thicc8312]

Paulo Cabrera need that mod asap ^__^

[@bighelio1093]

Paulo Cabrera ha prophunt i am think metal geal solid just turn into a cardboard box lol

[@tallest4205]

items that counter him quelling blade lmao

[@uliseslz104]

A Tango

[@Puppetmaster2005]

assuming he doesnt murder u with burst damage before u even reach to quelling blade xD

[@BengCurd]

tallest420 blazer windranger early power shot.

[@luis20jedar]

Play spirit breaker

[@IanDavid01]

pick timber then :)

[@Dtzeo503]

Now Dota 2, League of Legends, and Smite have Sun Wukong lol.

[@MatiasPalacios2]

Dont forget Vaintglory and Strife

[@Dtzeo503]

Matias Palacios Oh wow those too? Oh my goodness Sun Wukong is such a popular character. China must be proud lol.

[@machewitt]

and hon

[@Dtzeo503]

Mac Hewitt Omg geezus

[@romerus6087]

Wukong from LoL seens the weakest, there's not much gameplay with his clones or the monkey power in general, his kit could be used in any generic staff fighter or monk, because that is mostly whats he does, atacks with a stick...feelsbadman

[@fathappy3]

I like how the "Monkey King" archetype is becoming a staple of MOBA's with Wukong in LoL, the mythological Son Wukong in Smite and now monkey king in DOTA 2.

[@someone-wi4xl]

"hey guys this is sunsfan" line always get me remind me back when i started dota and i was watching their spotlight on heroes like axe and such

[@sinw88]

someone almost 6 fucking years ago oh the fucking feels

[@tengkualiff]

hey whats up guys its Scarce here

[@antimageantimage3424]

someone You're the same person who commented on addiction video

[@someone-wi4xl]

antimage antimage youtube is small place isn't it ?

[@OMFGLOLROTFLWTF]

same. i saw an intro video to monkey king but it wasnt the same without sunsfan lol. i dont even play dota anymore but heard about this hero.

[@Bplaying21]

I can see in the horizon the nerf... is huge!

[@ulquiorragrimmjow64]

Like Arc Warden *gone but not forgotten*

[@Puppetmaster2005]

He might need tweaks soon lol. He sounds bursty as fuck.,

[@jaythan4534]

most heros come in stronger than usual to get people to play (i suppose) then to later nerf the things that are too strong. If monkey came out too weak then no one would even try the hero. Though i feel his passive 4 hit combo is the strong one and is going to get the most nerf. (didnt see the scaling of the ability but it still looks pretty strong plus using 1st skill counts as one of the 4 bonus damage hits so right click 3 times then finish them off with the 1st skill) ... jumping distance might get changed but if monkey isnt jumping from cliff face to cliff face he is about the same speed as a regular hero with boots due to the 1 sec cd with each jump. Primal spring might be changed to have a minimum cast time since its way to easy to just jump (attack) someone quickly when chasing. it would be funny to place a tango on the ground, enemy thinks its the monkey when he jumps in with max Primal Spring. XD

[@dantheman4421]

You just gave me a new idea! XD

[@Nightknight1992]

his laning is very strong and annoying and his lategame is crazy with the ult cuz the monkeys can bash, apply echo sabre, etcetc.. just played against this with chrono and tree ult and it destroys teams completely, however when you get the jump on him hes managable. a few small nerfs and he should be fine.

[@Crazy-su4kg]

So now we know why there were random banana

[@zerodai6653]

the banana is obvious but the tree disguise is gonna be so annoying

[@Valvex_]

I don't think he is an actual tree. Or else you could jump on Treant too

[@sunni96]

you can disguise as a banana then hide in grass

[@earlaaaat]

I'm still wondering what will be Dota2's first hero concept.

[@SyaminiKaushik]

necromancer

[@Kooiiyy]

earl tumala I think another Spirit, should be air or water

[@lpenrike]

a new spirit was teased in the second MK comic so...that

[@polo619652]

A void spirit?

[@alanpereyra5503]

GameOfThrows No, a Spirit brother of Storm, Ember and Earth spirit, his aura seems violet/purple

[@niptart1275]

Man this is the most balanced hero ever put into the game :3

[@WindGaming13]

When he comes out, I'm spamming timber

[@SpicyTurk]

or windranger lel

[@nguyenbinhphuong1491]

or nature prophet or enigma

[@fuhrerhosty]

batrider, has flying vision from two spells and can lasso him

[@noelbahthis8959]

no, teh best wei is spamming crystal maiden.....just ult whenever you feel suspicious

[@XD-re9hk]

I'm not mad I'll pretend he's balanced

[@Sijuste0]

Yeah you played him so much. I will pretend you are not an impulsive imbecile.

[@XD-re9hk]

Sijuste0 I haven't played him but I still have game knowledge u 2k mmr Peruvian slark main

[@XD-re9hk]

upcomingragequit that is true

[@Sijuste0]

X D You have game knowledge? Yeah we can all see that mr 3k mmr

[@XD-re9hk]

Sijuste0 Mr 3k mmr?

[@ADudeWithAPC]

Changes to Monkey King have been made since this video was released. This list will contain those changes (not including number changes, since they are very frequent) Mischief: Now turns Monkey King briefly invincible for 0.3 seconds, allowing him to dodge most abilities, including Reverse Polarity and Finger of Death. Wukong's Command: No longer increases damage of Monkey King or his soldiers, but instead gives him an extra 8/14/20 armor. Remember to like this comment if it helped you, and feel free to ask me any question.

[@johnpauljonesisabadass8134]

What about now? Any changes? I'm a newb, btw

[@yarikyaryi]

​@@johnpauljonesisabadass8134he was too op so now he nerfed a lot. But still good situational pick and very strong pick in mid against melee heroes.

[@ultrasaiyan97]

so he has stun, slow, critical damage, deception, escape, lifesteal and a fucking awesome ultimate..................WELL ALRIGHTY THEN!

[@magdieldexter]

Buu They are taking inspiration from smite, They make every new god OP as fuck lmao

[@Pneuman1ac]

His 1st skill is totally Sun Wu Kong's skill from Smite

[@bomapdich]

yeah, it's actually The Monkey King signature skill. It's like all Naga creature have wave skills.

[@mrpineapple2938]

Joystikz_ except it doesn't just tickle ur opponent

[@deathpyre42]

No, it scales better and has CC. Also, wukong having an extendable staff is universal.

[@Pneuman1ac]

Oh... Okay...

[@rnmgamer709]

Saza Rice the skill was already introduce in the trailer in the ti6 international..its obvious bro..

[@timothylee3198]

Actually, Wukong origins from Chinese myth, Journey to the West.

[@brokenblade5063]

i wonder if u can disguise yourself as an aegis ?

[@xnition4359]

if u stand in the roshan pit u will disguise as an aegis

[@Bonja82]

Yes, if you're in Rosh pit, that happens xD

[@00DeathBringer69]

yes in rosh pit

[@sorkfebern]

yes in rosh pit

[@pizza87760]

Affirmative in Roshan hole.

[@AlexRaEU]

i came here to see the cooldowns on his spells..

[@LadyLynxes]

Wonder what his quote will be when he gets MKB.

[@newtreesmell7338]

He says "My staff!"

[@CrossbladeX]

''Why do I have to buy my own bar?''

[@hybrid9791]

Really? whats wrong with this one?

[@moonsieur5372]

MrEzzmode "Oh, finally bought my Bar back. Damn thieves."

[@diotheman6689]

''Holy fuck, They steal my fucking staff"

[@babute21]

they could have made his passive increase his attack range each hit, that would be far more interesting and lore friendly imho

[@mikeyking_]

That would be a really weak passive though.

[@ShinOrochi]

Yung Succ P. I will rather choose TA's passive more than this one lol

[@The_Uprising]

ill never be able to look at a shared tango the same again

[@squeegie]

I remember trying to summon the Monkey King in Dota Allstars... way back in the day.... when I used to be young...

[@jancervera9683]

I love you dotacinema

[@DotaCinema]

Love you too

[@manunavoni7666]

i want to be loved too :C

[@Xwhitton22X]

what the fuck is wrong with you really

[@EnzoPinheiro]

don't we all?

[@DotaCinema]

Here, take some love

[@iMarvil2000]

this is literally a champion in league of legends with the difference in only the skills

[@argumentumadhominem3977]

btw Nasus=Anubis and Renekton=Sobek are from egyptian mythology league peasant

[@baska-]

R.I.P DotA 2003 - 2016.

[@pholcamposvillanueva5355]

Welcome Dota 2 2017 - ...

[@dantheman4421]

I find the fact that moving from tree to tree costs 0 mana, as does the Mischief. His tree dance shouldn't cost 0 mana. You can practically travel from one end of the map to the other while in the treetops, and quite a bit faster than most heroes at that. Great, fun hero that is based off an old Chinese legend, referenced in the American film starring Jackie Chan and Jet Li, 'The Forbidden Kingdom'.

[@fareezhayde1960]

the next hero should be a support which ulti clears fog of war for 3 minutes...

[@a_akie]

Shah Hayde Dude 3 minutes is a pretty long time. That is totally imbalanced.

[@fareezhayde1960]

Grim but both teams could see the entire map.. Thats balanced

[@a_akie]

Well that's just ridiculous if that happens.

[@fareezhayde1960]

Grim no it isnt.. They both got safe farming for 3 minutes...

[@a_akie]

But that would disrupt the mechanics of the game. But it's your idea though, got nothing to hold against it. Interesting idea, Still 3 minutes is too long maybe 30 seconds or 1 minute is enough.

[@jayyavid5363]

Thanks for the intruduction, i love the talents also as they add excitement throughout the game

[@ClubbingSealCub]

When he turns into a courier he should turn into your equipped courier tbh.

[@tokekch7791]

Good Old Days😢

[@joseph-dj8wq]

I always wanted to become a tree.

[@thedog5k]

0:06 i have been waiting for this moment.

[@zerodai6653]

well we have officially found the most annoying hero in dota 2 for 2016-2017

[@yagoovirus2751]

They didn't use sven as a dummy, Is this real? 😵😵

[@Kujakuseki01]

I expected them to remake the MK from HoN, but I'm glad they made a new one here. :)

[@marekwolosz7676]

But MK from HoN was only fro skilled players :P

[@jayarubenmahendran4686]

so why are u barking?

[@jayarubenmahendran4686]

really nigga? 😂😂😂😂

[@TheDarkizer]

no offense , but i agree with marek, kinda hard playing with hon MK

[@jayarubenmahendran4686]

Kujakuseki01 lol....grammar nazi

[@namelessfire]

That's one hell of a Phantom Lancer Arcana

[@acvaticlifE]

HOLYYY FUUUCK DOTA HAS CHANGED A LOT!

[@noelbahthis8959]

it is wednesday my dudes

[@DorkAndFriends]

As a long time HoN player, it's actually amazing to see our monkey king branch out into different games. He's a staple in whatever game you play, be it League, Dota, or HoN and if he's got one thing in common with any of his adaptations, He's a huge pain in the ass to deal with. Cheers.

[@jocosesonata]

Sun Wukong existed long before computers did. Any game that has him was inspired Journey to the West.

[@porcu12345]

[@TohoEggbirb]

I noticed alot of dota players do this with the "waiting for salty lol fan to say ________" but from what I have seen, a good amount of the dota community likes to trash talk lol while the lol community doesn't talk alot about dota (unless they enjoy the game). The salty people you are really looking for are the 10-12 year olds who are bronze (1k mmr and below equivalent). oh and sorry for writing a FUCKING essay in the comments i just wanted to point this out because i see this alot and it makes me cringe xd

[@caffekon1570]

The games are not even so it's only funny for dota players who clearly have much more things to boast about while lol players can only talk about community size and porn lol

[@thedog5k]

I swear most of the time there is arguing.

[@TohoEggbirb]

Im probably wrong, but this is just what I see and im trying to be as unbiased as possible since I love both games

[@sleeping_asher]

"the lol community doesn't talk alot about dota"? now this is what i call comedy!

[@Bragison8]

He will also turn into an Aegis when in the Roshan pit, and Roshan will stop attacking him when he does so, which could be a nice way to regen health while solo-ing Roshan

[@firatazia3713]

Well I think the pre-game style was fucking awesome. And yet no one mention it. Also seriously all of this people mentioning "rip off from LoL and shit". You guys don't watch Dragon Ball? Why not sue Dragon Ball because the character are based on Monkey King.

[@samsplayground8646]

The ult is superb compared to lol. Just spinning like a beyblade. This one is superior

[@ihsan75y]

a hero that bring laugh in game

[@JohnPaulBuce]

when this monke was released, it was a pain for everyone who played against him

[@shangospark7517]

HELLO? this move set is waaaaaaaay better than league wukong

[@IllustriousKite]

I just also moved from LoL to Dota 2. And man, LoL is just so underwhelming compared to Dota 2. UNIQUE heroes in Dota 2 are truly uniquely, whereas in LoL there's just a bunch of similar champs.

[@Lftarded]

@@IllustriousKite skillset in League may be a bit underwhelming since they're available all the time. You don't get champs in league that has a cooldown lasting for 3 fckn minutes.

[@Maharradzia]

2:28 - "circular ring" Failfish

[@ZishPOE]

Are you visible when on top of trees?

[@kirayoshikage6474]

no he isnt

[@neilramada9446]

source? or atleast some kind of proof. I am waiting for SUNSfan to say it but nah.

[@kirayoshikage6474]

I tried it in test client

[@hearwho8438]

It would be useless if he was visible

[@neilramada9446]

oh thanks mate, I watched a gameplay and he is visible near tower? Plus is he somewhat viible from really far when jumping from another tree?

[@danielvenegas8136]

oh my god, dota is changing a LOL, i mean a LOT

[@eduarddv00]

i dont think it is fair to disguise as courier, since everyone will attack it for sure.

[@veehaytch3440]

i wonder if he can be flying courier

[@magdieldexter]

MiCMaCToE CK I dont think so lmao

[@veehaytch3440]

magdieldexter yeah, seems a little op

[@JPman299]

That's what you get for trying to kill an innocent animal.

[@alexanderblixt1221]

He becomes a flying courier if your team has a flying courier, but he can't fly over terrain.

[@Munhuu923]

my god, i missed dotacinema so much and sunsfan's hero interview... nostalgia....

[@ShadowbladeZZ]

this hero is OP ... Free courier? come on...

[@francisolayta5844]

ShadowbladeZZ wat

[@barraathaya]

R.I.P. my childhood DOTA :(

[@chickencrusade3886]

TALENT TREE??? ???????????????????? what is this vanilla wow? >:O

[@pholcamposvillanueva5355]

Heroes of the Storm. :P

[@serayunarizal8933]

im thinking to buy 2 echo sabres

[@noelbahthis8959]

lol does that even work haha nice idea though

[@noelbahthis8959]

just buy 6 gloves of haste for maximum ATT speed

[@Dohuyenanh888]

I dont like the skills and items bar on the new update.

[@larrybyrd6596]

Nguyen Thuy Linh then please, leave. your negative opinion is not good to near.

[@Dohuyenanh888]

Okay, it is my opinion and i dont like that

[@IceX92]

You meant the HUD, you can change to legacy mode

[@therealcece971]

I agree it doesn't feel like Dota.

[@huybop6353]

Hello

[@garnyd777]

great, just great. now DOTA 2 is copying Garry's Mod

[@MrB10N1CLE]

Raden Aditya Garnida Kusumahwardana prop hunt for days

[@swagit4174]

that's a good thing really

[@seonjie]

wtf is talent tree

[@LeagueLoreIndonesia]

12 games on MMR match. 10 Games on pub. Match. This Hero always pop-ups in rate of 44-52 Win rate.

[@YorkshireSpud]

He's so OP, transform into a banana!!! VOLVO NERF!

[@oranjizer]

1. Banana 2. Tree 3. Courier 4. Iron Branch 5. Tango 6. Healing Salve 7. Clarity 8. TP scroll 9. Rune 10. Aegis XD

[@earlaaaat]

Question: is the "Talent Tree" A new feature?

[@frozzenshadows]

earl tumala Yes, new for 7.00

[@Alvaro-nd4vl]

for every hero, attribute points are gone.

[@polarcaps8966]

new feature? nah heroes of the storm had it long before.

[@LostRequiem777]

Paul Tang It's still a new feature for DotA 2 you jackass. Also, it's wildly different than the talent tree from Heroes of the Storm. They aren't even really comparable aside from the name.

[@earlaaaat]

I see. So they remove the +2 for every levels right? That's awesome at the same time really complex lel.

[@Dx001]

FYI, Mjollnir/Crit/Basher/Deso/Skadi/Echo sabre ALL PROCS on ur ultimate monkeys so he is really really broken basicly same as riki ult

[@Loponstorm]

Oh my, that sounds terrifying.

[@ShinOrochi]

Dx001 Lol he should used MKB instead of Basher because MKB is actually his favourite weapon.

[@XC11301991]

Hide n seek game mode please.

[@dr.hazardous4489]

If his tree is detroyed he will be stunned for 4 seconds? Jakiro : ok

[@AxelKIE]

Ozo Ozo Ozo Ozo Ozo Ozo

[@magdieldexter]

This aint vaiglory lol

[@bees7798]

Axel Kie XD

[@UmDevoto]

Axel Kie kappa*

[@micx6747]

now the trees look bigger than a hero themself

[@martinpatootie4130]

"Very deceptive hero that can deal quite a lot of damage in the right hands." LOL even noobs can carry this bullshit OP Harambe.

[@Max_Jacob]

I'm so confused at the lack of comments comparing this hero to LoL, this is easily the most ''beyond the barrier'' thing they've ever come up with it's ridiculous

[@ImmaterialDigression]

This sounds so overpowered lol

[@noelbahthis8959]

look son, culling blade!

[@AlejandroPerez-xs4ep]

Look son, Nature prophet!

[@Hiken_Bakuzan]

Look son, Phoenix!

[@noelbahthis8959]

look son, Dragon Knight!

[@Hiken_Bakuzan]

Saza Rice Dragon Knight doesnt break trees....

[@toooplive]

This is not new in the patch, but I am really loving the height of the trees

[@skar9556]

we got a spy in dota 2...!!! why..???

[@danelo13]

Why would you be dumb enough to not attack enemy items?

[@nguyenbinhphuong1491]

that item is a spy that hero is a spy that creep is a spy that rune is a spy that building is a spy that roshan is a spy that tree is a spy that courier is a spy that spy is a spy => They should add these quotes in Y button

[@vendordedicated634]

Binh Phuong Nguyen ROFL mate!

[@mr.q337]

Son Wukong: "Gentlement!" "I was never on your side" =)))

[@jayvenebeatbox5375]

You need to do a Hero Spotlight on every hero again, cuz of the talent trees thing.

[@LaitoChen]

Hit for + 200 after the first 4 hits? Sweet Christmas thats OP

[@totalmetaljacket789]

Just back off for a few seconds until the debuff runs out.

[@tavish1658]

The debuff lasts for as long time as Slark's essence shift.

[@totalmetaljacket789]

qwerty222999 And let's not forget he prevents him from last hitting if he wants to keep you debuffed.

[@DShaker24]

Actually it doesn't, it doesn't reset when you hit creeps.

[@totalmetaljacket789]

DShaker24 Alright that's fucking dumb.

[@Eysc]

the passive x attacks then lifesteal sounds like ability from league.

[@jaxonmcalley]

The way he said "delicious banana." I giggled.

[@Lonewolf-930]

Monkey King's Ult+Mars Ult=deadly combo

[@MasterJongXG]

Well it's official, in all MOBA games I play, Sun Wukong is there

[@mrEbraheem]

You know it is fun that way. If you are a fan of someone VERY famous and you now you can play him/her? Man that's awesome XD But they throw a random name you will have to read their lore and all so you understand... Like Medusa for example. She is that ugly Greece God who turns everybody looking at her into stone. And this is about what happen with her skills kit.

[@Jaber1One]

i like how you called him wukong at 2:20 lol

[@faiz3256]

dude that's the name for his final ability XD

[@DunkeysLongLostSon]

I miss the times when Phreak used to do the Champion Spotlights.

[@jasv49]

Do enemies see the AOE indicator when you're channeling that jump thing?

[@lonesoul815]

now where is the jugg arcana

[@wugos26]

scrapped

[@pinekun]

his passive standing animation looks like he can't control his lower body and it keeps moving.

[@tokekkk]

lol that moving banana, i died XD

[@Stabbyhead]

His old skills are pretty interesting with vaults and nimbus and all, don't know what happened

[@cloud_and_proud]

You should've maybe mentioned that Jingu Mastery can trigger on Boundless Strike.

[@ttuah]

I only have problem with Boundless Strike and Jingu Mastery. Boundless Strike looks kinda OP. Maybe shorten it's length OR make it area around hero OR reduce the damage OR remove/reduce the stun. Jingu Mastery need to be nerfed? No way we can counter him with fast attack speed unless we have disarm. Maybe either higher damage OR higher lifesteal. Both kinda too much.

[@juanmarailgun7783]

You know... for a Monkey King type heroe, this one is quite unique. I mean, he's not a tank or tanky brawler for one.

[@YohAquino2]

PropHunt custom game confirmed!

[@zacharydanvers9781]

His passive kinda makes him become a better version of Ursa, isn't it? 200 damage for each of 4 attacks is huge.

[@TohoEggbirb]

Would of been cool if he had a passive mkb effect, I mean he's holding the damn thing wherever he goes...now all we need is a black king :^)

[@JPman299]

Beastmaster seems like a pretty good counter to monkey king, yet he gets his ass handed to him in the trailer.

[@joncalvert4690]

it looks like you have to make a lot more spot lights now

[@ScytherDOTA]

2:37 Tajuu Kage Bunshin no Jutsu

[@MrWearethechampion]

keenders seezx its more like henge no jutsu to me

[@megiayam5250]

ScytherDOTA hentai no jutsu

[@RevoZtuns]

Like MOST new heroes, extreme need required. This hero is so broken you're either lose miserably due to a noob on your time or win easily due to a decent player on your team

[@RevoZtuns]

Nerf*

[@mrEbraheem]

Shut up Teemo.

[@kadekokas3501]

The ulti sound of MK is kecak dance from Bali.

[@adylzhantukhtamov8982]

You gotta admit that his first skill needs a nerf. I mean it's a damn fissure combined with enchant totem

[@magdieldexter]

Adylzhan Tukhtamov Except it doesnt block a path xd

[@alo754]

Better to have him a bit op than to be underwhelming right out of the gate, I suppose.

[@Exist64]

Boundless strike seems pretty OP, but other than that he seems difficult

[@kilcanolpal3738]

i love this guy he's the most unique hero! the only problem is his Q because that stun is ridiculous