Double Bevel Basics- Japanese Knife Imports

[@mattdouglas8900]

I just sharpened my first knife using this tutorial (and a few others from this channel) and my first knife came out sharp! I have room for improvement, and my bevel isn't consistent, but I was able to slice magazine paper from heel to tip and shave hair on my arm. I was so surprised to have success, I can't wait to practice and get better. Thank you so much.

[@JKnifeImports]

glad the videos were helpful... feel free to reach out anytime you have questions

[@billperreault7275]

very nice info for a beginner knife sharpener. i have gotten into it, all my knives now will cut paper, and i am so happy to use them when working in the kitchen, it is a joy to have them sharp. i learned a lesson that way.

[@JKnifeImports]

Thanks.... appreciate the kind words.

[@JKnifeImports]

the angle depends on the knife, how you use it, personal preference, and so on. It can very greatly. Most that you will see will be between 5 and 25 degrees. You can use tools like marker to see what the angle is on your knife. Thats an easy way to get started.

[@JKnifeImports]

give it a shot and let me know how it goes... if you have questions, you can find my contact information in the video description.

[@JKnifeImports]

@Ender63071 we use primary and secondary bevels to describe that... double bevel vs. single bevel refers to having a bevel on both sides of the knife, versus one side (acutally traditional japanese single bevel knives also have a hollow ground back side)

[@JKnifeImports]

no, my finger is not on the stone. If it were, it would be very uncomfortable and probably soon start bleeding ;) Keeping consistent is about constant visual observation. I look at what i am doing and adjust as necessary. After time, it becomes muscle memory. In the beginning, i recommend using sharpie (coloring in the blade- both the bevel and the area behind the bevel), so you can see more easily where sharpening is taking place.

[@JorgeHernandez-wg5rk]

When your sharpening the backside are you applying pressure on the push or the pull?

[@JKnifeImports]

pressure on the edge trailing stroke

[@RicardoLeonardoAugusto]

Hi John, thanks for the video. I didn't get the sharpening angle on a double bevel nakiri like this. Is it like sharpening the bevel side on a single bevel (i.e., just a tick over the bevel angle), but on both sides, or should I use a steeper angle? Thanks!

[@JKnifeImports]

usually on newspaper... i also do some stropping on finishing stones

[@stide13]

I've been using sweep motion and kind of like it cause i seem to get a nice full edge easily, no need to patch it together kind of thing. But my bevel seems to be uneaven from the heal to tip...especially on my gyuto. (doesnt happen with less acute bevels on cheaper knives). Was thinking about switching to this technique....i also sharpen while sitting...

[@JKnifeImports]

@sgtschmitty8013 Sure it is... its a nakiri. Actually, that particular knife ships with a pretty close to 50/50 edge too.

[@jjshane72]

Hi Jon, love all your sharpening videos, most are very informative but I was wondering are you ever going to redo some of your older ones with better explanations and camera angles? Also do you recommend deburring between stones or deburr on the last stone? Thank you

[@JKnifeImports]

Literally about to being production on some in about 3 weeks… have a dedicated media person now… just trying to make time for filming the longer things and not just TikTok and IG

[@JKnifeImports]

Also, deburring between stones will depend on how large of a burr you form. I generally dont, but there are times when i do. Usually, i just do it on my last stone.

[@jjshane72]

@@JKnifeImports thank you for your replies Jon and I look forward to the new videos from you guys!

[@chelseaview]

@@JKnifeImports do you just keep on going with the lower grade stones till you get a burr? I have small knicks in my edges, are you looking to get rid of those before gettting going on finer grain stones?

[@JKnifeImports]

@@chelseaview potententially... obviously you want to make sure you're feeling for a burr correctly, so you're not just wasting metal. But, yes, you want to sharpen until you form a burr, and make sure that the burr is even and consistent from heel to tip. You don't have to remove all chips if you don't want to, but i generally like to, and this would be done on whatever the first stone you are using (whether that be coarse or medium). If you're spending more than 5-10 minutes trying to form a burr, either you've got some technique issue that you need to fix or you need a coarser stone. But if its a technique issue and you switch to a coarser stone, you will only make the issues worse.

[@lrksimas]

do you strop your knives after sharpening them on waterstones?

[@TheRacerRich]

On the double bevel do you not need to also hit the area that is like a shirogami before sharpening the cutting edge, to avoid changing the geometry?

[@JKnifeImports]

are you asking about the shinogi line, like on wide bevel double bevel knives and single bevel knives?

[@TheRacerRich]

@@JKnifeImports yes, brain decided to write shirogami instead for some reason.

[@michelnader6281]

Hello Jon, I thought we're not supposed to get a but from high grit stones because they only polish the knife edge. one question if I may, the micro bevel will be set on what grit? thanks for your very informative videos

[@JKnifeImports]

even high grit stones can form a burr, and if you arent removing a burr between each stone, you will still feel one on the higher grit stones. Its nice to have that tactile feedback as well. As for the microbevel, finishing stones are the best idea.

[@omk007]

Hey John! Firstly thanks a lot for your tutorials they are really helpful. I had a question regarding the pressure while you move up and down the stone as you press with your two fingers. Is it the same in both directions or you apply more pressure one way?

[@JKnifeImports]

Generally, i try to apply pressure more on the edge trailing stroke when sharpening double bevel knives

[@omk007]

@@JKnifeImports Got it thanks! 😀

[@gamerkyle14]

is it quite common for new people using stones to be trying to push and pull with the hand controlling the angle, mainly because im right handed, it is habbit, also , 2)are all whetstones capable of being stored in water, how can i find out. 3) how long do oyu soak your stones for , i find mine work best , after around 45 mins , but i guess that deppends on the stone compound? 4) and final quistion , im thinking of buying a new knife it will be my first carbon knife more specifically, and do you , have a preferrence on steel i watched your primer on steels and im looking at white #2, as it sounds like what i want from my knifes in the kitchen i work in.

[@JKnifeImports]

1.yeah... it seems to be quite common... it seems like instinct to push/pull with both hands equally. 2. No... not all stones. When in doubt, ask the vendor. We try to put this kind of info on each product page on our website at least. 3. For stones that need soaking, i soak until it is fully saturated (bubbles stop coming out)... usually about 10-15 minutes, but can be shorter/longer 4. I like things that sharpen easily and get sharp, so white #2 works well for me, but everyone has different personal preferences, so it really depends. Feel free to e-mail me or call the store anytime if you want to have a more in depth conversation about this. Our contact info can be found on our website japaneseknifeimports.com -jon

[@davidofoo]

I'm having a lot of trouble feeling for a burr using my thumb. Any tips?

[@JKnifeImports]

personally, I've always found it easier to do with one's index and middle finger... I think I show that in our stropping and burr video

[@K8Nicole]

Thank you for posting.

[@nevadataylor]

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[@njvr7540]

Hi Jon. Thanks for the Awesome videos! Just want to know when sharpening a double bevel knife, do you apply pressure edge trailing strokes only?

[@JKnifeImports]

bitcoin web design in general, yes

[@njvr7540]

thank you for the fast reply!

[@monwhooperinvasive8064]

great video! But why not changing hands?

[@JKnifeImports]

changing hands is ok, but it is not the way sharpening is traditionally done in japan, and thus not the method i teach.

[@cilydaniel]

Hey John. Great work and videos. Question. The setup you have with tray and stone holder. Is this a setup you made or is there a kit that comes with tray and stone holder assembly. I'm looking to setup something like this so I can sharpen knives. Also a little more info on what grit stone you are using. Hopes to hear back from you. Please get back to me. Thanks Don

[@JKnifeImports]

The sharpening setup I use here at work includes the following things: *Stone Holder- www.japaneseknifeimports.com/collections/sharpening-supplies/products/large-stone-holder-1 *Stone Bridge (this still needs some kind of stone holder to give the stone enough height on this)- www.japaneseknifeimports.com/collections/sharpening-supplies/products/stone-holder-1 *Camrbo Hotel Pan (400 size... Camwear model number 14CW)- amzn.to/2D4powu Here are some important notes about this setup: -There are many stone holders out there which don't provide enough stone height to clear the lip of the stone bridge -The stone bridge can be set up to either hold everything flat or at a decline. I prefer the decline as a function of water control and ergonomics. However, this is the reason one needs a taller stone holder with this setup. -The stone bridge does not fit most sinks. Though the length is somewhat adjustable, it is best suited to hotel pans. -The hotel pan should be the plastic one, not a metal one. The metal ones tend to warp on the bottoms, and dont sit flat. However, the plastic hotel pans aren't as rigid, and therefore, the stone bridge should be positioned at either the far left or right of the hotel pan, for added stability.

[@IllaFoRilla]

@@JKnifeImportsHi John, thank you kindly for this information - I was just getting ready to contact you via your website to ask the same question about your sharpening setup. I'll be ordering this list of supplies from your website shortly. Cheers and thank you very much for the education, I really appreciate it!

[@Gooner8642]

Wow. Thats aweaome. And where in the us are you situated? And also are these classes for anyone to attend? Might be visiting the us soon. From south Africa.

[@JKnifeImports]

We are in Los Angeles, CA (acutally in beverly hills). The classes we offer are 1-on-1 classes, so its just an issue of scheduling. Generally, we've been pretty booked up lately, so we need about 2-months notice. If you go to our website, which you can see in the video description, you should be able to find all of the info you need by clicking on "services"

[@Gooner8642]

Faaaantastic. Will Definately check it out. Thanks for the reaponse.

[@BSFilms1997]

Do you keep the stone in contact with the bevels?

[@JKnifeImports]

yup... thats the idea

[@BSFilms1997]

Thanks, I've been sharpening my late great grandmother's knife and it's pretty much become the favoured knife in the kitchen. I just wanted to make sure that I was taking care of it properly.

[@JKnifeImports]

Well feel free to bug me anytime with questions

[@kenos01]

What is that frame you are using?

[@JKnifeImports]

if you're talking about the thing i've got my stone holder on top of, its this: www.japaneseknifeimports.com/collections/sharpening-accessories/products/stone-bridge The thing holding everything is a 4in deep cambro.

[@xearus]

Awesome video. Thank you!

[@glytch5]

What is that plastic pond box thingy called? I need to buy one. I keep trying to use plastic storage boxes but they wobble too much.

[@JKnifeImports]

+Max Savino its this one amzn.to/1GQlK4y

[@glytch5]

+Japanese Knife Imports thank you! Do you tkae paypal on your side? your sink bridge seems to be the most affordable one on the market. Also, do you need a stone holder on the bridge? or will a wet cloth work?

[@JKnifeImports]

+Max Savino we do indeed accept paypal. With the bridge, a stone holder is necessary, but a 2x4 block and a towel or some cabinet liner would work too.

[@glytch5]

+Japanese Knife Imports thanks for answer all my questions! I'm wondering if I need to go buy another stone holder, or if my big ol' shapton stone holder will fit on the bridge.

[@JKnifeImports]

+Max Savino it should fit

[@juanluissandoval506]

where can i get a platform like the one your using on the container.

[@JKnifeImports]

+Juan Luis Sandoval if you're talking about the stone bridge and stone holder, you can find them here: www.japaneseknifeimports.com/collections/sharpening-supplies

[@abbaeben6409]

Great video….thanks

[@goolug]

How much pressure are you applying with each stone? Let's say going from 1000 to 5000 to 8000? Are you pressing hard on 1000?

[@JKnifeImports]

in general, sharpening doesn't take that much pressure. I think my heaviest pressure would be about 1500g (if you pressed on a scale), but that would only be when I'm really trying to remove metal. Most of my sharpening takes place around 500g, with my finishing taking about 100g or so.

[@StaySharpFacas]

John if I want to flat grind a slightly convex Gyuto to a flat 50/50 knife and work my way up to a perfect kasumi in a natural, I should use a very hard coarse stone to do the job faster? And the just progress trough the rest of the stones? It's jut thinning to a perfect flat grind correct. To do the heavy work I'm using a Atoma 140 and I can still see some blind spots and defntly didn't reach the edge and created a burr. So just go tough to a perfect finish and flat blade on the 140 and progress my way up removing the scratches. I'm looking to get a perfect kasumi on a double bevel, slight convex Gyuto. Thanks.

[@JKnifeImports]

I'm not sure why you might want to do that, but having a nice foundation from a course stone will help a lot. It doesnt have to be a super hard stone though. In terms of the kasumi finish, that will be dependant on the good foundation, along with stone choice, water control, and pressure control.

[@Gooner8642]

How long did it take you to get freehand sharpening right? I tried once and scratched the shit outta my knife.

[@JKnifeImports]

i've been doing this for quite a few years now, but as i teach people, i've found that anywhere between 2-4 hours is usually what it takes me to teach someone to be a capable sharpener... not perfect, but capable for sure.

[@JKnifeImports]

thanks a lot

[@lardymctubster1064]

I'm having a problem where my edge keeps cutting into the stone (especially fine) how do I stop this??

[@JKnifeImports]

+Lardy Mctubster i think i just answered this for you in another comment thread on another video

[@lardymctubster1064]

Yes you did. Thanks

[@lrksimas]

thank you, very nice tutorial btw

[@ShiftCarp]

Why not switch hands? Maintain wrist angle and approach. I have no right hand muscle memory yet anyway

[@JKnifeImports]

you certainly can, and some places in japan do. We do it for wide bevel knives often. However, when i did this video, it was focused on the way that the craftsmen in sakai i train with teach sharpening. Nothing wrong with switching hands though.

[@AlexanderHonsVonEber]

Quick question, how backed up are you currently for the 1-1 classes? I'm in the area and really want to do this ! Thx,

[@JKnifeImports]

+Will H. extremely booked up right now, but shoot me an e-mail and i can give you more info on when we might be able to do one... its a few months down the road though. Sorry about that.

[@JKnifeImports]

@sgtschmitty8013 lol... sorry... i'm a kitchen knife guy ;)

[@Ender63071]

I thought a double bevel consisted of sharpening at two angles... maybe creating a bevel of 10-15 degrees, then making a second bevel at the edge of 20-25 degrees.

[@sgtschmitty8013]

That is not a double bevel