Downsides of FIRE Movement - My Worst Year After Retirement After Getting Rid of $200K Debt

The FIRE Movement (Financial Independence Retire Early) may not be right for everyone. Here are some downsides and why I had a tough time in retirement.
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[@Morningdwnld]

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[@gurrrrlish]

good video - honest & insightful

[@Morningdwnld]

Thanks for watching!

[@harrywebster6752]

Great video...I recommend the book "Die With Zero" as a competing perspective to FIRE...aligns well with your messaging.

[@Morningdwnld]

My mom just recommended that to me yesterday. If both you and my mom say I should read it, I better check it out. Thanks for the suggestion.

[@kimmckinley7879]

This is the best message ever! Awesome 👍

[@Morningdwnld]

Thank you Kim!

[@lilrog0909]

I retired from the military about 1 year ago. Pension kicked in 9 months ago. After sitting on my butt for 6 months doing nothing while everyone goes to work really sucked. I got me a federal law job now. I work only 4 days week with weekends off. Much better life for me. I'm debt free too

[@Morningdwnld]

Great job! A 4 day workweek doing something you like sounds like a good deal.

[@sammencia7945]

YOU MUST WORK. Men especially. Men cannot sit around all day. 5 months then you go crazy.

[@wendynoble6545]

I switched to a lower level, less stressful job. My investments are.growing and I'm putting a little more into my investments every month, but I've left the high stress rat race.

[@Morningdwnld]

Don't you feel much better getting out? Good job Wendy. I'm happy for you.

[@wendynoble6545]

@@Morningdwnld for sure! But it was really important that I earned well in the first half of my career and did all the heavy lifting in terms of investing. Otherwise, I wouldn't be as comfortable, confident and compounding now.

[@Morningdwnld]

@@wendynoble6545 Nice job! Sounds like you did it right.

[@philmarsh7723]

Save 50% of your income and keep working at a job you like. Your career and expertise are also important assets. When you quit working, these can atrophy. Save, and you can do things like own your house debt-free in a matter of one or two decades, by paying cash.

[@Morningdwnld]

100%

[@davidfairchild1640]

Great video! Love the cautionary notes, especially about dropping your interests to obsess on fianances. Would suggest a few acoustic panels in your office to cut down the reverb a bit.

[@Morningdwnld]

Thanks for the suggestion David. Since this video, I've upgraded some equipment and added some sound buffers so the newer videos should be better.

[@ItsRyanStudios]

I'm 29, no debt, no expenses, but not much savings after taking a year off from work. I definitely agree with the sentiment- enjoy where you are. I've somewhat intentionally and somewhat inadvertently setup a life where I don't work too much, but save, and take off extended periods from work. I'm not wealthy or traveling the world yet, but I'm grateful for where I am now. Being able to go exercise with my dad or fly a kite with my mom or kayak with my wife on a random Tuesday afternoon, is more important to me than anything else.

[@Morningdwnld]

I hear you. Having time to do what you like makes life so much more enjoyable. You may like this new video posted yesterday that talks about retirement alternatives, kind of like what you're doing: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hGrNf36Jfcpob8k

[@atc404770]

Brooks and Dunn … I learned that happiness on Earth Ain't just for high achievers I've come to know there's life at both ends Of that red dirt road…

[@atc404770]

I’m half-ass pursuing the FIRE movement myself but another good country song about remembering to stay in the moment as well is “You’re gonna miss this” by Trace Adkins

[@Morningdwnld]

So great that you commented with the actually song. Thanks!

[@smiles5029]

I'm sorry I could hardly hear what u were saying the 1st 21seconds cause I was focused on the creature climbing the tree outside your window.

[@Morningdwnld]

That's so funny! I didn't even notice that and you're the first person that mentioned it. Those iguanas are everywhere around here!

[@kenjimiao967]

Financial independence is giving us a choice to work. Not working for survival. It's different

[@Morningdwnld]

Agreed

[@billallen1307]

You need to send a little money to improve the acoustics in your video recording room. :)

[@Morningdwnld]

Done! I upgraded after this video so new videos will be much better.

[@kikachou7886]

Bottom-line! All your feelings are tied to the fact that you retired in 2021 and the markets tanked in 2022. It would have been so much different if you retired and the market kept going up after that for a few years. Telling this from experience!

[@Morningdwnld]

For sure. I think that's a huge part of it. Also, not working wasn't for me. I like working and a lot of people do. I prefer focusing on the "financial independence" part and not the "retirement" part since we think of retirement as not doing anything. What has been your experience? Similar to mine?

[@kikachou7886]

@@Morningdwnld I retired to a "Purpose" and am pursuing my passion so never felt that void of not working. In fact, I am happier and busier than ever. Pursue what you would have done when you were a kid and that will do the trick! As for money, let it grow for 5-7 years as the markets will eventually go up!

[@Morningdwnld]

@@kikachou7886 That's the way to do it. Being busy doing what you love is the only way to do it. I agree the market will go up eventually.

[@dforrest4503]

@@Morningdwnld I’d agree with that. I think I’m ready to retire from my full-time job, but I’m young enough (55) where I’m sure I’ll want to do something else. The nice thing about FI is that I don’t have to focus on the income when/if I return to the workforce. Volunteering or lower income but doing things I want would be just fine!

[@Morningdwnld]

@@dforrest4503 Sounds like a great plan. With that flexibility you'll have lots of options. Nice job!

[@mamikiramafoko4095]

Thank you for this wonderful presentation. I believe in a balanced lifestyle. In the process of accumulating ;one should not forget to live. There is no need to be extravagant and also no need to be a miser. Tomorrow is promised to no one. What if a person dies after accumulating so much without enjoying life in the process? Count me out!!. Save but also Live !!!

[@Morningdwnld]

100% agree. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[@hunterfitch5951]

My wife and I could die in a car crash today but everything we've accumulated would go to our children. That thought gives me security.

[@chickenbonelives]

I just want to get myself to a point where I can start snowbirding

[@Morningdwnld]

Funny you mention that. I just posted a video about retirement alternatives and talk about a friend of mine who does that. Check it out and let me know if it gives you some ideas: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hGrNf36Jfcpob8k

[@shekusheriff1438]

God bless you

[@Morningdwnld]

Thank you!

[@carlyndolphin]

I’m 43 and have been following the FIRE movement for the last 2 years. I think those relying on the stock market for passive income should also have a cash buffer in case the market takes a dramatic downward turn. I also invest in property as people always need somewhere to live. If people get bored during retirement they are not very imaginative. There are so many things we can do to keep ourselves entertained.

[@Morningdwnld]

Sounds like you're on a good path. It's always good to diversify. Are you buying rentals or just your residence?

[@carlyndolphin]

@@Morningdwnld I have a few residential and commercial rentals. I use some of the rental money and invest into the stock market. Global ETFs

[@Morningdwnld]

@@carlyndolphin Great job! What have you learned from having properties that you can share?

[@carlyndolphin]

@@MorningdwnldUp until last year I’ve always invested in condos and commercial retail property. Touch wood, so far I’ve not really had any regrets as there has never been a shortage of renters, probably due to the fact that we live next to an international airport. All the properties are managed by a property management company.

[@Morningdwnld]

@@carlyndolphin That's so awesome. It sounds like a good investment and as inflation will likely persist for years to come, real estate usually does well long-term as the debt is inflated down. It's nice to hear success stories like yours!

[@hunterfitch5951]

I'm on track to be financially independent in about 2-3 years, currently 45 y.o., but I don't plan on 'retiring' because I've had an amazing revelation, I love the path my wife and I have taken to invest for our future. So much so that I probably won't stop until I have to. We are purchasing Airbnb rentals in vacation destinations, mainly tropical beaches in Mexico. We want to build our portfolio out across the world and I get genuinely excited looking for properties and traveling to these amazing locations. I've been in construction my whole life and seeing a raw piece of land built out with 6-7 rental units inside it gets me excited. I know I could die tomorrow but we've also setup a trust so that our children, and generations after, will benefit from what we're doing now (the properties can't ever be sold).

[@Morningdwnld]

That sounds like a fun project. I'm working on a similar plan. Are you buying in places you want to visit or places you think will make the best investments?

[@cindyleeger]

Wow, very impressive

[@toddspangler6669]

You said the properties can't ever be sold. Why is that? Just curious.

[@hunterfitch5951]

@@toddspangler6669 that way when my wife and I are long gone then our heirs won’t be able to sell them, making them multi-generational.

[@toddspangler6669]

@@hunterfitch5951 I guess I mean HOW are they unable to sell them? Is it something put in the will that prevents them from selling? What if the area starts having bad crime, are they then stuck with it? Lots of questions. 🤔

[@semaph0re]

I suppose the target audience for this video is Americans. In Europe, even western Europe, the salaries are quite low (2 times as low), while taxes are high. For some, it is hard to save up anything. But this is more of a complaint about FIRE, not this video.

[@Morningdwnld]

Are you in Bulgaria? I spent a month there and loved it. For sure harder to save when taxes are high as it’s a drag on funds.

[@semaph0re]

@@Morningdwnld Yes, I moved from the Netherlands to Bulgaria. Bulgaria has 10% income tax, probably the lowest in the EU, which can be nicely combined with a western salary. As previously mentioned, it is quite hard to save up money in the Netherlands due to the tax burden (around 50%). I can save a lot of money now that would otherwise not have been possible.

[@Morningdwnld]

That sounds like a smart move if you can earn a Netherlands salary. 10% sounds great. Is it working well for you?

[@semaph0re]

@@Morningdwnld Yes, as west-EU suffers from a cost-of-living crisis (more so than the US) my suggestion for any high-skilled worker looking to build capital would be to move to low tax areas, such as Bulgaria OR move to the US (where entrepreneurship is actually rewarded).

[@Morningdwnld]

Totally agree. In fact, I have a video coming out about geoarbitrage soon. It can make a huge difference.

[@emersoncavalcanti1222]

Damn, I thought I was looking at myself in the future haha. I have these exact same concerns that you have been through. I'm 33 and plan to retire when I am 40, but I don't want to use the word retire. It sounds like I'm just going to be lazy and do nothing, and honestly I think I'd go crazy! Let me ask you something? How is married life after you guys retire? Don't you, Idk, get tired of being with each other every single day all the time? hahaha how do you balance that?? Awesome video!

[@Morningdwnld]

Thanks for watching and the compliment! Married life is amazing because my wife and I have done the money journey together so we talk about it a lot and also we learned it's important to each have our own interests so we get time apart and with friends, so that has helped a lot. What's your plan? btw...vc e Brasileiro?

[@emersoncavalcanti1222]

@@Morningdwnld yes, born and raised haha So my plan is investing in Brazilian bonds called Tesouro direto. This specific fund profits along with inflation, so my money is protected aside from growing. It also pays me over time monthly instead of a lump sim. To sum it up (I’m gonna use dollars so it’s easier for you lol) So I’ll invest 3k dollars for 7 years and I’ll have aah income of 3k dollars for 40 years (again, adjusted by inflation so it’ll be way more than that) I also have a 401k back in Brazil and I also invest in index funds here and my own car company. Diversifying so I can have multiple incomes is the way to go. What do you think of my plan?

[@Morningdwnld]

@@emersoncavalcanti1222 Muito legal. Eu morava no Brasil e adorava lá. Parece que o Tesouro é semelhante aos TIPs nos EUA. Desde que seja diversificado e em investimentos relativamente seguros. Não é um conselho financeiro, mas você parece estar no caminho certo.

[@LegoStarWars217]

Read the title and thought the first sentence you will say is SOR. My guess is that retiring in 2021 is bad. Did not expect you to say that you got bored. FIRE people dont suffer to reach goal and then find themselves bored. My 10 yr journey to retire when I am 60 yrs old, I have a few more years to go but from the beginning my biggest fear is SOR sequnce of return. 2021 and 2022 is the worst first years to retire.

[@Morningdwnld]

It's been a wild couple of years in the market.

[@notyet2345]

It's really more about FI than RE. I think it's weird that people think there are downsizes to FIRE when all FIRE does is give you the option to work or not to work. I have reached FIRE and I 'm semi-retired, working when I want too. I don't think it's FIRE that has downsides. It's more the person's attitude about FIRE that are turning things that can be adjusted into downsides.

[@Morningdwnld]

@@notyet2345 100% agree about it being more about the FI. The RE gives people the wrong impression that you won't ever work again, when it's really just about having freedom. The downsides, as you said, are in the perceptions and how you approach it.

[@donaldlyons17]

@@Morningdwnld If it is even possible..... People have to have money to retire coming form somewhere..... Money is not a thought it is something we have to have to survive.

[@rowddyone3570]

Up side to giving up a latte is u will have less cavities and diabetes from the 50g of sugar and crap that goes in it😀

[@Morningdwnld]

True. Give up the latte for those reasons not because it’ll change your finances. While we’re at it, give up the fast food :)

[@workinprogresssince1974]

I think it's incredibly important to have a post retirement plan and ensure you have hobbies, interests and goals for when you retire because work takes up a huge chunk of our lives and our purpose. It dictates everything and when that's gone it's like setting sail without a paddle. You need to spend some time pre retirement making plans that at the very least ease you into it gradually.

[@Morningdwnld]

100%

[@HamiltonRb]

You are absolutely right. I promised my three kids than when I reached 60 ( 10 years ago) that I was turning my mid sized construction company that I built up over 32 years, would be theirs to run, and it was a challenge to let go at first. We spend most of the winter in Mexico, but when the spring comes I come into the shop in Toronto every morning, drink coffee, smoke cigars, read newspapers and watch You Tube videos in my office, and try not to get involved unless they ask for advice. You need a purpose in life, and regardless of how much money we have, you want to be involved in what you do best

[@Morningdwnld]

@@HamiltonRb Sounds like you've got it figured out. How are they doing with it? Is it tough taking a back seat still?

[@HamiltonRb]

@@Morningdwnld They have done a great job to be honest, and all I really wanted was a legacy to pass down to my kids, and eventually to theirs. I am still in Puerto Vallarta, and I understand there is still snow in Toronto, so I guess I don’t miss it that much :)

[@Morningdwnld]

@@HamiltonRb You've done a rare thing by passing on a successful business and raising competent kids who can run it. Congratulations!

[@dividendduck]

Great to see what it's like to retire early! I'm trying to replace my income so I have the option of taking a break or retiring early if that's what I want. I'm okay with working for the foreseeable future, but want to keep my options open

[@Morningdwnld]

Good job! I like what you said about having the option to take a break. I think that's key. Giving yourself options.

[@babyanddaddy2634]

Why didn’t you go back to work if you hated it?

[@Morningdwnld]

I have actually gone back to work as a CFO and really like it.

[@dforrest4503]

@@Morningdwnld CFO of what size/kind of company? And do you find it a grind yet? (50+ hours/week)?

[@Morningdwnld]

@@dforrest4503 I found a good fit at a company that's just the right size and has a nice culture so it's not a grind. It makes all the difference when you find a good fit. Thanks for asking.

[@mabuhayproductionltd3627]

For the marked to be Flat in the 1960ties or Flat in Japan for 20 years after 1990 ? Dosn´t mean (at all) that there is no money to be made, stocks still goes upp, some go down, some pay dividends, some go bankrupt ect ect. Overall the marked might be flat, but it just means that stock picking is so more important. Warren Buffet still had amazing profits in the 1960-1980ties. I have retired last year, but based on monthly dividends and stock trading. I haven´t started to redraw any profits from my portfolio yet, but i have descovered they same as you, the different betwin have a steady income from work, and (soon) have to make a steady profit for dividens and trading every month.

[@Morningdwnld]

For sure there are always opportunities, but if you're investing in index funds it's definitely a consideration.

[@ariefraiser140]

​@@Morningdwnld Correct. I would add that most people wouldn't necessarily know if they were in the middle of a 20 year or so flat market until years into it. Take a guy who retired in the US around the year 1999 using the 4 percent rule. He would have experienced -9% in 2000, -11% 2001, and negative 22% in 2002. Not great at all but this guy is a believer in the 4% rule so he adjusts a little and soldiers on. Then 2003 gives him 28%, 2004 gives 10%, 2005 4%, and 2006 15%.......and everything is fine until 2008 when they lose over 36%......That 2000 to 2009 decade gave the retiree virtually no returns but he wouldn't have known that in 2007 for example. And even if he had an inkling it would play out that way if he's already retired and depending on his savings he would be extremely risk adverse and trying to pick stocks is not something he or most people would probably attempt to do.

[@vadoiski]

If anyone is charging you $497 for a course. Please leave, snake oil will not help you, save, Roth Ira, read the market, watch the news (lightly not to be taken at heart just to gain where the political standings are) and that's it. You will be ok! Glory be to God.

[@Morningdwnld]

It's not for you.

[@donaldlyons17]

@@Morningdwnld As a person posting content you know how important it is to have an income source of money.

[@anna-lenameijer9942]

I decided to pay off my student loans in Januari 2009; they never seemed to decrease. So instead of putting $CAD 85/month at 0.01% interest in the bank, I realized that I could save by paying the money towards the loans. I paid the last $ in December 2018; one year later Corona knocked on the door. We could not know, but I followed my gut feeling of unrest and came out a victor. Living debt-free is fantastic.

[@Morningdwnld]

Smart move to always pay down debts, especially if the interest rate is higher than you can get elsewhere. Congratulations on being debt free!

[@anna-lenameijer9942]

@@Morningdwnld I couldn't possibly know about Corona and the spin-off of these years in 2009, but I had an admonition in my gut that wouldn't go away until I took action and stayed my course. So month after month, the loans went down with the extra snowball-effect of lowered interest (>0.13%) which I used to my advantage. The biggest gain of being debt-free is the zero worry. Whether it is Corona, a war or restructuring in society, people worry about too high interest, expensive gas, food prices, heating...but they also live without preparing during the good years, but spend more and more. History shows that bad times come in cycles. I have lived through being at university for 6 years, the crises of the 1990's, the 2008, Corona and the Ukraine war and my economy has stood the test every time. Considering the small income I have had, it's a miracle. I live like a queen on 90 m2, buy anything I want CASH. They can talk all they want about eco. strategies, but at the end of the day the proof is in the pudding, right? How many persons in a country would raise their hand when asked if they are debt-free?

[@susanh326]

Idle hands are the devil's workshop. I want to work til I drop. 😊

[@Morningdwnld]

I hope you love it.

[@deborahcurtis1385]

You saved $200k and you had a bad time doing it? Naturally you won't be having a fun time! The point is you have done what you intended to do. First world problems, these.

[@Morningdwnld]

I actually loved the process of paying off debt. It was so satisfying seeing it go down every month. Saving as well. Not having an income during a recession or working was the tough part. Turns out I like to work :)

[@donaldlyons17]

@@Morningdwnld Well maybe but you said you like the process of paying off debt and saving as well so nope it just works for you!!!

[@notyet2345]

anybody that says there are downsizes to FIRE is doing it wrong. There are no downsizes to FIRE. It sounds like you were being extreme. FIRE is malleable......you were being rigid and you are blaming FIRE for your inflexibility. there are many different types of FIRE to accommodate many different financial situations. FIRE is just guidelines, there is nothing in FIRE that says you have to retire in 10 years. You took on that challenge. This is a case where you should blaming yourself instead of FIRE.

[@Morningdwnld]

I'm not blaming FIRE. I still believe in it and am still doing it. I 100% recommend it to everyone. I was being extreme, that's true. The tough part was retiring in a down market and not being prepared for not working. Not working is a part that not a lot of people talk about and we need to more. How's FIRE going for you?

[@freedomworks3976]

I retired twice. Didn’t really care for the no job lifestyle much. Now I believe in FINR - financial independence never retire ❤

[@Morningdwnld]

I like that new acronym!

[@rtbull11]

😂

[@quartytypo]

Fire movement guarantees that people will have very little the rest of their lives

[@Morningdwnld]

How do you figure that?

[@agentsnorlson7913]

@Invincible Money by Trajan King Sour grapes

[@Morningdwnld]

@@agentsnorlson7913 apparently

[@Jimbo1268]

Retired at 48. Married my wife at 50. We immediately retired to Nevada from NJ where I had purchased a place in 2011. Turning 55 in December. We have no kids and no prior children. My background - worked as a senior portfolio manager for a major investment firm. Made 6 digits, saved moderately, bought investment property near housing low of GFC, and maxed out my 401k for probably 12-15 years. Despite bear market 2022 still have 7 digit net worth, still own an investment property, and have major equity in my primary residence. Have two mortgages one tiny. No, I’m not a multi millionaire, yes we live moderately but can easily enjoy vacation, dinners out, etc. No, I never missed working. No I do not miss social aspect of work. Yes, I lost 50 pounds since retirement. Yes, I finished a Masters Degree at a top international university. Rarely, I am ever bored and have never regretted my decision. My concern healthcare down the road but with the stress and workload I dealt with I will live longer in retirement. I have many hobbies. No, not everything has gone perfectly, but we are happy. Yes, I miss my income, but we still make what a middle class family makes in the USA without working. We have almost 0 credit card debt. We also have a no cost variable annuity paying monthly which was a benefit from my firm - I view it as a pension that will go to my wife if I predecease. Cheers

[@Morningdwnld]

Great to hear!

[@razorsharplifestyle101hard9]

Congrats,In 7 years thats my target retirement age.My home is paid for in michigan.And i am retiring to thailand with 500k.