Seth Thomas Mantel Clock Repair for Bud

[@BradfordNeedham]

An index for this video: 00:00 Preliminary examination of the clock 01:34 Removing the hands and dial; examining the case finish 03:31 Finding the time side mainspring doesn't wind; its clickspring is off the click 04:27 Examining the mildewed case interior 04:48 Removing the bell and pendulum; examining the movement; viewing the worn pivot holes 07:23 Letting down the mainsprings 08:25 More detailed examination of the movement 09:04 Separating the plates 10:37 Releasing the mainsprings using a spring winder 12:26 Ultrasonic cleaning 16:43 Using steel wool to remove stains; Drying and examining the wheels 23:30 Polishing with a kitchen and bath polish, in detail 30:07 Pegging out the pivot holes with a toothpick 31:33 Polishing the trundles and gears with a brush and bath polish 43:38 Polishing the pivots with a sanding stick and lathe 53:27 A view of the cleaned and polished parts of the movement 54:07 Pegging out the pivot holes once again 55:46 Examining the run side (time side, going side) and strike side pivot holes for wear 58:28 Bushing: measuring the pivots' diameters; choosing bushings 1:00:15 Bushing: filing the unworn side of each pivot hole 1:04:04 Bushing: using a reamer to drill out the holes; chamfering and deburring the holes 1:07:53 Bushing: inserting the new bushings 1:09:44 Bushing: broaching (enlarging) the new hole to fit the corresponding pivot 1:12:57 Bushing: de-burring the hole, then smoothing it with a smoothing broach 1:14:47 Bushing: testing the fit 1:15:56 Bushing: demonstrating that the pivots no longer wobble and the train runs smoothly 1:17:29 Lubricating the mainsprings 1:19:19 Winding the mainsprings onto the great wheels using a spring winder 1:21:34 Pegging the pivot holes again; showing the assembled parts and assembled movement 1:22:45 Oiling the movement 1:27:25 Showing the cleaned case; describing the case-cleaning 1:28:53 Showing the movement running in the case 1:29:55 Showing the finished clock

[@drafthorse4547]

I've watched so many videos of guys that are trying to teach and leaving out steps, But this Gentlemen gets it right. One of the best tutorials I've ever watched. Definitely not a waste of your time.

[@dperry428]

I appreciate that!

[@sputnik94115]

I'm about to overhaul an 89C movement. I can't thank you enough for making this video. You are one of the best KZbin clock restorers out there. Great photography and camera work.

[@dperry428]

Glad it was helpful. Also happy you enjoy the videos. I'm not a professional videographer and take video to inform the owners of the clocks what was done to them. There are lots of critics who complain about my hands being in the way, or they can't hear me clearly or I should do this or do that. I appreciate someone like you who takes the videos for what they are and nothing else.

[@sputnik94115]

@@dperry428 I just finished it. I can see why you don't video the full reassembly! It took a while. I had some difficulty getting the strike train in synch. What helped me was Steven G. Conover's Striking Clock Repair Guide. He has a section on how to set up the wheels and levers for the 89 movement. I had to separate the plates at the top a few times to realign a couple of strike train gears, but it's now running and striking the way it should. I found your video to be the most helpful aid in working on this clock. I cannot thank you enough, sir! This is the first time I've properly set up a countwheel strike, and it feels really good.

[@dperry428]

Thanks for the comment.

[@ПашаПитецкий]

Дякую вам за працю, хай щастить 😊,у вас можна повчитися,це гарно

[@CaptRon817]

A very nice video and informative too. I am a retired aircraft tool and die maker. A couple of years ago I decided to 'try' and learn the art of clock repair. So, I bought two Seth Thomas #89 movements, exactly alike. My theory was to take one apart, make the repairs, bushing, polishing etc. I knew putting it back together would be a challenge but I had the second one to look at to better understand "now where and what does this wheel do?'' I will tell you this, I walked away from that sucker more times than once trying to put it back together!! Hours and hours I tried different ways to put it together without 'stuff' falling out, and then...bingo, I figured it out. That little #89 now runs like a fine clock and keeps perfect time!! That was two years ago and since then I have done a bunch just trying to stay busy. My wife keeps asking me "what are you going to do with all these movements''?? I tell her ''I have no idea". At my age, 80, sitting at a work bench is about all I am able to do now so I just keep taking them apart and repairing them?? Thanks for your videos. Its people like you that helps old birds like me do it 'correctly'.

[@dperry428]

Thank you for the comment. You've chosen a nice hobby. I'm sure you've found that when you're involved in a mechanism, the world just seems to disappear. Thoughts of world problems no longer exist. I'm right behind you in age. I turned 78 in February. I'm a retired science teacher and have been doing clock work since about 1968. I started doing the clock videos just to show the owners what was done with their clocks, but soon found others interested in them, so now I try to incorporate a little teaching into them. You could consider buying the movements on ebay, fixing them up and sell them on ebay to make a little money to pay for your hobby. You might also like to join the NAWCC and use their forum for more information on clock repair. www.nawcc.org/ I've been a member since 1972.

[@malcolmchadwick4047]

Great to watch a true old school tradesman. No fancy bushing machine, cordless drill, hammer and dolly job done. Fantastic inspiration thank you Sir you are a gentleman. Stay safe.

[@dperry428]

I'm just a hobbyist. My craft was science teaching.

[@johnhelt5475]

THANK YOU!! I have been so intimidated by the idea of replacing bushings, thinking I had to buy a very expensive bushing machine. Thanks to your videos, I will be investing in the reamers and diving in.

[@prescurmudgeon6374]

Thanks for another great video. Stay healthy during these crazy times...

[@MB-ou9wi]

I learned threw the national watch and clock collector's. This is the right way and the only way. Very nice.

[@Alan-qk2tx]

This was a fabulous video, so thanks for taking the time to do that. I must say that i wanted to see the detail of the re-assembly but you suddenly it was done, and you commented on how difficult it was. It would have been perfect if you had show that step by step as you did for all the cleaning, reaming and bushing steps,

[@dperry428]

I understand exactly what you mean, but, if I did that for everything, the videos would get to be unbelievably long. If the reassembly were included, someone else would complain that I didn't show the details of the case restoration. When the videos get too long, fewer people watch them. I try to vary the details that I show to keep the length of the videos somewhat reasonable. I assume that people will subscribe and watch my other videos as well, where I might have shown what any particular person might be interested in. For example, here is a prior video of a Seth Thomas mantel clock movement where I show more detail of reassembly: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gJS4omeqiM9sbqssi=ib_Le8ccBb29-qBU&t=2703 Thanks for watching and for your comment.

[@Alan-qk2tx]

Thanks for your prompt response. It was in any event a long video as you say. I’ll go check out the others. I am hesitant to take my clock apart like you did. I don’t have the tools and/or ultrasonic bath. It’s running so will see how it goes. It is very sensitive to being absolutely level (especially back and front). @@dperry428

[@dperry428]

You don't need an ultrasonic cleaner. I didn't use one for 50 years. If the clock is touchy front to back, check that the pendulum rod runs through the center of the crutch loop.

[@deand1308]

Just started repairing clocks as a hobby myself. Working on the 2nd clock now. I've been reading a lot of books and watching videos. Your videos are very helpful and educational. Thank you for your military service. Thank you for the helpful repair videos. Really appreciate your skill and experience. Seems like a great hobby although it can be frustrating at times.

[@dperry428]

Just stay patient and don't take on more than you can manage with your current skills. It takes a long time to compile the skill sets for many repairs. I've been at it since 1968 and still don't have the skills for some repairs. When you get frustrated, put the work down and walk away. Come back to it later and it will seem less frustrating. Good luck with it. I'm glad you find my videos helpful. If you're going to stay with it, consider membership in the NAWCC; the have a great publication, as well as an interactive, online forum that will add to you knowledge.

[@deand1308]

@@dperry428 I will certainly heed your advice. Thank you again.

[@JimmiePorterAtStuartArts]

A great pleasure to watch this rescue...I learn more with every one of your videos. Thanks for posting!

[@dperry428]

Thanks for watching!

[@tylervee1891]

Hello mr perry,I'm eagerly awaiting your next video,today I tried to clean up my first movement with the wire wool like you,an old 1890 ansonia station clock,I didnt both with the cream polish but the wool shined that brass up like iv never seen before,it removed all those deep stains that the ultradonic cleaner couldnt remove, thankyou yet again for shareing your knowledge with us!I have learnt yet another priceless trick off of you that I will now use in every clean I do,

[@dperry428]

I'm glad you found something to use from the video. I know that once a movement is "clean", the stains don't affect the function, but it's hard for me not to give it some dignity by restoring its looks as well. Also, the steel wool is great for removing rust from the arbors. What I like about the acrylic polish is it leaves a protective coating that helps prevent the return of rust and tarnish. It should be used before polishing the pivots so that there is nothing on the pivots and the pivot holes are pegged with wood to remove any polish from the pivot holes.

[@userprofilename371]

I have worked on clocks for years and enjoy it so much. I tend to favor weight clocks mid to early 19th-century brass & wood movements. Love the women ones best though. But also more typical victorian spring clocks also. Sir, the point is that you do such a wonderfully thorough job taking your time and getting every detail exact. Sir three cheers with a standing ovation for the work you do. Hello from Brushy Mountains of North Carolina - God Bless. Love your videos friend.

[@dperry428]

Thank you.

[@johnspenard8900]

Very nice job Don! I thoroughly enjoyed the details. They are so helpful to those of us who are trying to learn. Please keep them included in your future jobs. Thank you very much!! John

[@dperry428]

Thanks, will do!

[@dmms660]

Hi there, been wanting to thank you for taking time to share your clock repairing skills...you have given me the confidence to repair my clocks....I have 21 of my own I’m working on while I’m on this virus stay at home thing....I’m not board that’s for sure. Thanks again for your amazing videos !

[@dperry428]

Welcome to the wonderful world of horology. You might like, if you haven't already, consider membership in the National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors (NAWCC). Here's the website nawcc.org/

[@toddnipp9070]

Thank you again for the absolute through video! Your camera work is great. Along with your editing. Here in Colorado I’m expecting a stay at home shutdown soon and I’m going to have some time to work on many of my own clocks. Now I know how to give them a through cleaning. God bless you and take care.

[@darrenwhite4946]

Man certainly knows his stuff. Great video

[@dperry428]

Thanks for watching!

[@khossossykhossossy7955]

Great video. Thank you so much. what did you use to polish the pivots? Where can I buy it? Also what compound did you use? Would Mothers metal polish work? Thanks.

[@dperry428]

timesavers.com/search.html?q=buff I use #4 and #6. Compound is shown in the video. It is for acrylic tubs and showers. Don't know what Mother's polish is.

[@khossossykhossossy7955]

@@dperry428 Perfect. Thanks a lot.

[@djguy314]

Excellent job, I learned a lot of terms and tools I didn't know before. I'm an amateur clock enthusiast and have quite a few 100+ year old clocks. I have a Seth Thomas kitchen clock that the chime will jump ahead 1 hour that I haven't been able to figure out why it does that. I've seen several videos where people use gasoline as a solvent to degrease a clock movement without having to completely disassemble it. I have not tried it yet? Do you have any ideas on that?

[@dperry428]

Look at the count wheel and watch its action. I'd bet the lever that drops into the deep slots is catching on the edge of a slot and allowing the clock to continue striking. Adjust the lever to fall into the center of the slots. As far as my opinion on cleaning, If a clock needs to be degreased with a solvent, it needs to be disassembled and properly cleaned. A clock that dirty would absolutely have worn pivot holes that would need rebushed and you can't do that without disassembling the movement. Don't even think about the butchery of using a prick punch to close holes. That's the worst kind of abuse.

[@djguy314]

@dperry428 Thank you for the sound advice. I really appreciate it. I already know the movement will need to be rebushed, but I don't have the tools necessary to perform the task or the experience for that matter. Are cheap Chinese movements worth cleaning and rebuilding? I got a few regulators and cuckoo clocks from resale and yard sales but they have cheap Chinese or Japanese movements in them.

[@dperry428]

They're worth whatever value they have to you. If the cases are in nice shape, no one is going to know what's inside. They also make good practice pieces to develop the skills you need to work on more valuable pieces. Get your experience from working on the junk.

[@洪一君]

can you make a clear video show how to resolve obilong pivot wear? Thanks

[@robertjordan7323]

Good day. Thanks for sharing. I'm curious, what cleaning solution are you using in your ultrasonic?

[@dperry428]

timesavers.com/i-22336012-zenith-watch-clock-cleaning-concentrate-251na.html

[@rustywrench2119]

Thanks so much for your videos. I noticed you have a sherline large like myself. I’m self taught and KZbin educated. Can you tell me how your mounting the wheels and shaft in the lathe when you only have the stub shaft, lantern pinion, or short pivot to chuck up? Keep up the great work. I too have way to many clocks stashed away in the basement. I’m from Minooka so I guess we’re almost neighbors.

[@dperry428]

There are a number of ways to do what you need. Start with Al Takatsch video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/h2KunYmhZtmlm6c He uses a jacobs chuck and chucks right on the pinion. I prefer to protect the pinion with a brass sleeve. Drill a small section of brass rod to fit over the pinion, slit the ring with a jewelers saw, and the chuck will squeeze the brass ring and not cause damage to the pinion. You can chuck onto a pivot by using a brass bushing that just fits the pivot, cutting a slot in the bushing so it can be compressed. Put it in the chuck and the bushing protects the pivot. It helps to also use a steady rest on the other end of the arbor. To switch from using a 3-jaw chuck to a jacobs chuck, I put the small jacobs chuck from my Milwaukee battery screwdriver into the 3-jaw chuck.

[@rustywrench2119]

@@dperry428 thanks so much. Both options make sense now. I will build some sleeves and split them. I do use the diy steady rest right now and it helps a lot when the pinion is hanging out there aways.

[@donodegard6641]

Thank you so much for this great video, great education. I have a Seth Thomas mantle I am working on. I now better understand what the possible problem is the tick tock is off thank you

[@dperry428]

Glad it was helpful!

[@porlasrazonesmeditadas]

Que solucion utilizad en la lavadora de uktrasonidos, gracias

[@dperry428]

timesavers.com/i-22336012-zenith-watch-clock-cleaning-concentrate-251na.html

[@TheBlackForestClockShop]

Great video... I learn something new each time I watch you so thanks for that! Question: What is your take on removing the varnish coating on the plates and cogs as you mentioned this one didn't have any. I suppose it's only necessary to replace it if you want the movement to remain shiny? I don't consider it necessary personally unless the movement is visible through its case. Wonder if you could shed some expertise on the subject? If you have in another video, just refer me and I'll have a look. Thank you again.

[@dperry428]

No expertise here; just a hobbyist. When doing repair and restoration, the goal should be to keep things as original as possible. If the movement has lacquer on the plates, use a cleaner that won't remove it. If you remove the lacquer on those that have it, replace it.

[@TheBlackForestClockShop]

​@@dperry428 Okay, well you could have fooled me because your knowledge speaks otherwise ;-) I leave the acetone out of the mix to preserve any lacquer if needed.. it works well. Haven't tried commercial cleaners yet, they seem so expensive. Perhaps I'll try a gallon to see how many cleanings it can achieve compared to my home brew. A cleaning solution containing ammonia without the fumes would really be ideal! Cheers & thanks again, Jim

[@dperry428]

The gallon you buy (if you use the one I use) is mixed 7 water to 1 solution, so you're really getting 8 gallons of cleaner from the purchased 1 gallon. May not be as expensive as it first appears. A good "homebrew" is simply dishwashing soap and Murphy's Oil soap, which contains oleic acid. Then, add or not add ammonia. I'd leave the acetone out regardless.

[@userprofilename371]

Great S.T. Adamanite Clock repair. Thanks for sharing

[@dane5547]

Thanks for your videos. Can you tell me where you bought the spring loading and unloading tool?

[@dperry428]

Bought mine here: www.ronellclock.com/product/accu-mainspring-winder/ As you can see, there is a backlog of orders. Here is another source: timesavers.com/i-8944167-ollie-baker-style-spring-winder.html Same problem.

[@dane5547]

@@dperry428 Do you have a list of power tools that you use? i.e. Model of Lathe or any other machines you use and like.

[@dperry428]

@@dane5547 I have a very old (1920s) South Bend Lathe, a very old floor model drill press, very old Atlas milling machine, cheap desktop drill press, a 4000 series Sherline lathe. I use the Sherline lathe and battery-powered hand drill for almost everything I do with clocks. I also have a small bandsawl. jigsaw and sanding disk that I use for making replacement case parts.

[@dane5547]

@@dperry428 Thanks so much for opening your shop to the world. I also have a 1920's South Bend. Unfortunately, it's a bit big for the type of work that needs to be done for clock repair hence the search for a mini lathe. The Sherline looks like it fills the bill. The reason I'm taking this up as a retirement supplement is I have 50 + years of electronic testing experience, 15 yrs machine shop, access, if needed, to a full machine shop, my dad owned a car repair shop where I spent most of my childhood, and last but not least a vast library of your well done videos. So I have the skills, abilities, and knowledge suitable to do a quick ramp up the learning curve. Sorry. I didn't mean to sound like I'm tooting my own horn. Do you know or can you recommend, (other than yourself which, has been a great help), a source for clock nomenclature?

[@dperry428]

@@dane5547 If you do a simple search for "clock part names" you'll find a wide array of diagrams that will be of great help. I'd also suggest joining the National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors (NAWCC). The put out a great bulletin and are a valuable resource for anyone interested in clocks. They also have a forum at www.nawcc.org/ where you can find invaluable information.

[@randallbourne2717]

I have a ST clock (maybe 1890s) with the same movement inside but without the half hour bell. It hasn't worked in about 40 years. It's been well protected away from moisture and was recently stored in a box for 12 years wrapped in puppy pee pads to absorb moisture. The springs are wound completely tight. The pendulum weight is missing. The chime spring pulls the movements when I flip the stopper thing up. The time side ( I don't know the tech terms) won't pull the escapement. What could be the problem? How much would a clock repairer, such as yourself, charge for what you did in this video? The clock I have was passed down to me from my paternal grandparents and great grandparents who had first had it in their homestead in the late 1800's. I'm assuming they bought it new or it was a gift to them. I'd like to have it running again. Thanks for posting this video. Very educational.

[@dperry428]

It's not cheap to take or ship a clock to a clock shop. Here's an example: billsclockworks.com/repair/sethThomas/index.html As you can see, the charges are usually more than what the clock is worth, unless it has sentimental value. That's why these clocks spend years sitting in non-working condition for most people. I have been repairing clocks as a hobby for more than 50 years. I don't do it as a business and, in fact, don't want to make money. I don't want to keep books for the IRS and get involved in sales tax issues. I repair for the cost of parts and ask that the owner make a donation to our local food pantry. I am not in a position to take on any more repairs at the present time as I am working on getting hip replacements. If you don't find someone that can help you with the repair and can wait, contact me next fall and we'll see about fixing that family heirloom up. In the meantime, the clock needs to be level and in beat and with a pendulum bob on it in order to work. By in beat, I mean that the tick tock sounds must be even. Here's a video to explain that aspect: www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=putting+a+mantel+clock+in+beat#kpvalbx=_8Qp1YO-HCtC7tQbVhKigBw15 Also try oiling the pivot holes with a light oil, such as sewing machine oil. Here's a pendulum bob: timesavers.com/i-9994952-mantel-clock-bob-seth-thomas1-1-2.html

[@davestelling]

@@dperry428 Good advice, and my very best to you with your hip arthroplasties...

[@khossossykhossossy7955]

What a great video. I like the way you brought that clock to life. I am restoring a Hermle 1161-853 Grandfather movement which needs rebushing. I am thinking of installing ball bearings instead of bushings. Any idea where I can buy them? NAWCC Mike Butterworth sold some but I was wondering if there were other vendors? Thanks a lot.

[@dperry428]

Mark Butterworth of Butterworth Clocks is the one who started the whole application of ball bearings to replace bushings. It all started as a result of the German manufacturers trying to save money on tooling by using soft steel for arbors and plating the pivots with hard metal such as chromium. That was during the 1970's. Those movements lasted 20 to 30 years until the plating wore off. Then, it was futile to rebush the movements as the pivots were then soft steel and would wear in a short time. The only way to resolve the problem was to cut off the pivots, drill out the arbors and put in hardened steel wire to replace the pivots. Mark worked with German manufacturers of ball bearings and, coupling them with bushings inside the bearings, offered them as a more practical solution. The easiest way to use them would be to just buy them from Butterworth Clocks. Erwin Sattler Clock Company in Germany makes very high end clocks that use ball bearings in their movements, but they cost as much as a Rolex. I have used ball bearings and get mine from Mark. If you want to learn more about the subject, here is a good article about their use and a possible source in Germany. www.bocabearings.com/general/ball-bearings-in-clocks

[@khossossykhossossy7955]

@@dperry428 Thank you very much, Don. I wrote him and I should buy some off his website. Thanks for sharing the article.

[@dperry428]

If you go to his site, it will ask for user name and password. Use butterworth for both.

[@khossossykhossossy7955]

@@dperry428 Yeah, Thank you very much. You had provided that on NAWCC thread. I follow the site religiously.

[@DarrenBentz45]

I have a 53 year old cuckoo clock with a hubert herr movement that probably needs a good cleaning , the pendulum stops after a few seconds ... I’d like to have you work your magic on it if possible .Are you accepting new customers?

[@dperry428]

Not at this time.

[@misterg7179]

I have a seth thomas mantel clock that is strking two minutes early. The minute hand does not have a slip nut to adjust it. The minute hand is held on by a pin through the shaft. How do you adjust the strike time in movements like that. Thanks.

[@dperry428]

If the movement is like the one in the video, you'll have to take the movement out of the clock and adjust the levers that control the strike. In this model movement, there is an "L"-shaped pin on the center shaft between the movement plates that lifts a lever to set the strike and release it at the hour. At the hour, that lever will start to drop off the pin on the center shaft early as the two parts wear. The only way to compensate for the wear is to bend the pin and/or lever to make the lever drop off later. That adjustment is done during servicing of the clock by putting the minute hand on the movement while still out of the case and bending those parts until the lever drops off the pin when the minute hand is exactly perpendicular to the top edge of the front plate of the movement.

[@misterg7179]

@@dperry428 Thanks very much. I'll give it a try. I was thinking, another optin is to replace the minute hand with one that has a clutch adjustment but I kind of like keeping it with the pin as it is, so I'll try what you suggested. I have to remove the movement anyway to finish the case so it should not be a problem. G

[@rehorneman]

How did your injection go on the 4TH? Hope all is well with you and your family.

[@dperry428]

It went well, thank you. I'm pain-free for a while again. I have the next injection scheduled for August 6. Then, we'll schedule hip replacement for November. Now, I'm ready to get outside when it gets warm enough and kick around some concrete. Hard freeze set for tonight (28 F).

[@eduvail]

What cleaning solution do you use please?

[@dperry428]

www.esslinger.com/formula-67-zenith-watch-and-clock-cleaning-solution-1-gallon/

[@bernardleguillou4137]

Looking for some help on a movement from Beacon Hill clock.The markings on the movement read:82 Franz Hermle no(o) jewels unadjusted made in west Germany 151-070 75cm /75.89.I have taken a lot of pictures.Do you have any video that would help? If you need more information,let me know.Thanks in advance.Clock stop sometime & the spring on the hammer does not wind up.

[@dperry428]

I don't know if I can be much help. I haven't the slightest idea to what "Beacon Hill" clock refers. The movement you describe would be a spring-driven time and strike with a 75 centimeter pendulum, so it is a floor clock? You say it does not keep running. There are two possibilities, either it is not "in beat" (unlevel or ticks unevenly) or it has worn pivot holes and needs rebuilding. When you say "spring on the hammer does not wine up", I'm assuming you mean that the strike side mainspring does not wind. That would indicate either a broken spring or a click mechanism that is not working. Either indicates a need for repair. Sounds like your movement needs to be taken to a repair shop.

[@glennbillet3069]

I am just starting only been doing this for about one year but don’t know how to charge can you give me some ideas and by the way I love your videos

[@dperry428]

I don't charge. If I charge, I'd have to consider it a business and keep accounting records for the IRS. I'm a retired science teacher who does this as a hobby. I ask those for whom I've repaired a clock to make a cash donation to our local food pantry. I monetize my videos and get paid by Google for views and ads. They supply the form 1099 at the end of the year and that takes care of the accounting. I eventually make more from the videos than I would make by charging people for the repairs and those in our community who are in need have additional resources. It's a win/win. If you are doing this as a business, I'd suggest going to sites that offer clock repair and look at their charges and make your decisions with that data.

[@glennbillet3069]

I am also retired thanks for the advise will do the same thanks

[@pb7379-j2k]

I love your videos. I use pliers on nuts because I’m a hack-is it considered bad form in clock repair? I expected to see more wrench use for that

[@dperry428]

One can use just about anything that works and doesn't damage the parts. Sometimes, it's just a lot easier to use a pair of pliers instead of taking out a set of nut drivers or a seldom used wrench. Half the time, with these old movements, none of the nut drivers even fit. Older movements often had part sizes and threads that were not up to modern standardization.

[@pb7379-j2k]

@@dperry428 Thank you sir!

[@davidfarrelly6308]

Great video, did you use slick 50 for oiling the pinions or did you use any specialist oil?

[@dperry428]

Slick 50 is ONLY for the mainsprings. I use a quality clock oil for the pivots. Nothing goes on pinions, which are the smaller gears on the arbors. This is what I use to oil pivots. timesavers.com/i-9995350-nye-140b-clock-oil-1-ounce.html

[@davidfarrelly6308]

Sorry my mistake I meant pivot points not pinion. Apologies

[@dperry428]

No apology needed; just clarification for other readers who may not know proper terminology and nomenclature.

[@malcolmchadwick4047]

Is there a trick to remembering where each wheel goes or is it a case of more you do the easier it becomes.

[@dperry428]

Generally, the more experience you have, the easier it is to put them back together. There's not really a "trick" to remembering. In a movement like this, there are three trains of gears. The time train, the strike train, and the motion works. Looking at the strike train, there is the first or great wheel and you can tell by examining the click and arbor, how the spring goes on and, from that, which train to which it belongs, the third wheel has a cam on it, the fourth wheel has the warning pin on the rim and, of course the last "wheel" is the fan, or governor. The only wheels you might mix up between the time and strike trains are the second wheels. Putting them in their pivot holes will quickly show whether they line up with their respective great wheels. Also, wheel diameters tend to get smaller as one moves up the train. The motion works has a center shaft that carries the minute hand, a cannon pinion, a hollow tube that carries the hour hand, and an intermediate reduction gear that moves the center shaft and cannon pinion in a 12 to 1 ratio -- hours and minutes. I'm reminded of when my father-in-law was teaching me to take apart a movement in 1966. When I asked him, "How do you remember where each gear goes?", he said, "They only go back together one way", and I thought, "That's kind of a dumb response". Years later, when I was teaching my neighbor, who was interested in learning clock repair, he asked me the same question I had asked my father-in-law. I almost laughed to myself as I said, "They only go back together one way." When I come across a more complicated movement or one that I've never worked on before, I take digital photographs as I take it apart, to that I have a series of pictures of where everything goes, especially levers and cams on chiming clocks. Years ago, before digital cameras, sketches and drawing were the way to keep track of things. Before taking apart a movement, study it, make sure you understand how things work and pay close attention when you take it apart. Clearly understanding how the strike works, makes it easier to remember where the levers go. That, along with pictures, keeps things sane. After taking apart a number of similar movements, knowing where things go becomes second nature.

[@wfhg94]

mr dperry428 very good his videos teach a lot. I have an ansonia clock with a calendar, I completely disassembled it for maintenance, I assembled it and lubricated it completely, the machine works well, the time, I could not make the time bell work, it does not touch the gon at any time, you can help me how to synchronize the chime system please

[@dperry428]

You have not given me enough information to help you. What kind of Ansonia clock? What do you mean by "time bell"? What kind of "chime system"? Westminster or do you mean hourly strike?

[@wfhg94]

@@dperry428 Ansonia Clock Co., "12-Inch Drop Octagon - R.C.", 8-day time & gong strike wall clock. it doesn't play the gong in any hour, how can I make it play the gong?

[@dperry428]

Then, it is a typical American-style movement. You will have to study the action of the strike train and levers to make it work. When you assembled the movement, the pin on the next to last wheel (called the warning wheel), needs to be closest to the top edge of the plates of the movement while the lever that rides the cam on the second wheel is in the slot on that cam. That is fundamental. Then, you need to see if the lever that is lifted by the wire cam on the center shaft of the motion works lifting the lever that impinges upon the warning pin to start the strike. One that lever is lifted off the warning pin, the warning wheel should then rotate about half a turn to be held in place until the cam on the center shaft falls at the hour or half-hour. Study the working carefully until you understand how they work, but start by making sure the second wheel cam and the third wheel pin are in the correct positions.

[@rehorneman]

How are you doing? I hope all is well. Waiting for your next video! I have watched all of your videos over and over at least 4 times. I need a new one.

[@dperry428]

Soon. I'm working on a big cuckoo clock, but waiting for my next injection on May 4. Hip is really starting to hurt and I refuse to use that darn cane again.

[@chrisperkins8808]

Excellent video, very informative. Thank you very much. God Bless.

[@dperry428]

Thank you

[@rehorneman]

Where do you get the BB13 and BB15 bushings?

[@dperry428]

butterworthclocks.com/ butterworthclocks.com/Bushings_Price_List.pdf

[@ohger1]

Question (for anyone): I've noticed that a lot of American clock movements are virtually interchangeable as far as mechanical layout with some minor variations, but I haven't seen any European clocks to compare them to. Is this layout unique to American clocks or are these copies of previous European clocks or even a single manufacturer (U.S. or Europe)?

[@dperry428]

The history of clockmaking, whether American or European, is a complicated and interesting history. If you want to know more about American clocks, try searching for the history of Connecticut clock makers, as Connecticut was the center of clockmaking in the United States. All clocks were originally individually made by hand, using simple machinery and were made mostly of wood, with either wood or brass gears. The evolution to brass movements and brass gears and mass production took place as part of the greater industrial revolution. The typical American brass movement and production methods were picked up by European companies and designs were altered to reflect typical German and French design. The development of the typical American brass movement is complex and interconnected as people moved from company to company and/or started their own companies, resulting in similar-looking, but NOT interchangeable movements. There needed to be some differences to avoid patent infringement. So, the history is complex, interesting, but not easily described in a short paragraph. Again, search for the history of American clock-making, particularly Connecticut clockmaking.

[@ohger1]

@@dperry428 Thanks (and I'm from Waterbury!). So the typical mantel clock frame movement like this one evolved in America? Saw in other comments you had some health issues - hope you're feeling better!

[@dperry428]

Yes, these movements are typical of Connecticut clock companies. Yes, thank you, I'm recovering from three surgeries this past year. Total hip replacements in May and August and total right knee replacement in December. Also, just recovering from Covid infection at the end of January and continuing with physical therapy on the knee.

[@rehorneman]

Are you done with clock repair for the summer? I know you like to work on clocks in the winter.

[@dperry428]

I'm usually too busy outside to have time and energy for clock repair in the summer. My physical condition is making that change dramatically. Can't do much work outside when one can't walk or bend over. Now, if I can continue to work my way up and down stairs, clocks look like an option, "Help, I've fallen and I can't get up!" That has already been true for me. I was on hands and knees pulling weeds and had to crawl across the yard to the pond wall before I could pull myself up. Maybe I'll do commercials for Life Alert,

[@rehorneman]

So sorry about your physical situation. I sure hope you will be able to do your next cuckoo video soon. Still up for a hip replacement in November? Take care.

[@dperry428]

Sure looking that way.

[@dperry428]

@@rehorneman Little update. The virus caused all hip replacement to be put off as "non-essential" or "elective". The surgeon is far behind in replacements as a result. Finally, today I got a date of February 16 for the surgery, the day before my 78th birthday.

[@rehorneman]

@@dperry428 Sorry for the delay Glad you have a firm date in Feb. I sure hope you will be able to do a vid. before then!

[@MohammadMalim910]

How do i get that bushes?

[@dperry428]

timesavers.com/search.html?q=bushings&go=Search

[@user-oj9yo6zt7c]

Beautiful clock :-)

[@dperry428]

Hi, T. Took it back to the owner today. He's housebound on oxygen.

[@jamesoliver3624]

Glad to see this video

[@rexmayn3171]

Can I send you a Seth Thomas movement for servicing?

[@dperry428]

I only work on clocks during winter. Summer is back yard work time. Ask again in November.

[@verdabehner8963]

I am in awe with your skills. Ive been watching your videos on you back yard rock making and faux bois bridge. Im curious what your profession was during your working years. Maybe I shouldnt assume your retired

[@dperry428]

Definitely retired (17th year). I'm 77 years old. I was a science teacher for more than 30 years. Before that, I was in the Air Force. Been repairing clocks as a hobby since 1968.

[@superguitarras111]

que maravilla sr perry, gracias

[@dperry428]

Thank you

[@jbarenghien]

Please fix mine next... clean and fix. How much $$$?

[@dperry428]

I won't be taking any more on for some time. I've got a couple to do now and I'm having two surgeries over the next few months that will keep me from going down to my workshop.

[@jbarenghien]

@@dperry428 Best wishes for smooth surgeries a full recovery. Take care.

[@curingabettoni4310]

mucho bueno video , graciez , heu saludo ameurica sule , D Bettoni brasile

[@rehorneman]

So glad to see you doing what you love to do and do it best. I hear a cuckoo, is that next? Love your surgical coat. That will keep out the virus. As always I love your videos and always learn from them. I think I read somewhere to never put springs in cleaning solution. Can't wait for your next video. Thanks P. S. I missed about your hand. How did you hurt it or is part of your ongoing problems?

[@dperry428]

The coat is a lab coat I used in teaching. I use it when I have to clean really nasty, dirty movements. Keeps my wife happy when I throw my jeans in the wash. My hand is fine now. I didn't hurt it; I was using a cane when my hip was so bad and the weight I had to put on the cane caused my hand to swell and created some carpal-tunnel problems. I got a cortisone injection in my hip, was able to walk without a cane, and my hand returned to normal. There are three cuckoos that run in my workroom. One of them is the next repair. It works for the most part, but needs general cleaning. It's an 8-day with virtually every moving thing that can be put in a cuckoo clock - music box, dancers, moving band people, a bell ringer and a waterwheel. As to putting springs in cleaning solution and ultrasonic cleaners, there are people out there working on clocks who have utterly no science sense at all. A spring is just another piece of tempered steel -- same as a ton of other parts on a clock, including levers, arbors and pivots. The heat in an ultrasonic cleaner is NOT going to anneal or change the temper of a spring, nor will the solution do anything to a spring that it will not do to any other clock part, except for leather on the ends of hammers. Likely, a lot of that misinformation came from warnings to people cleaning movements without dismantling them. Of course, a spring that is in a barrel or wound up in a movement, cannot be properly rinsed and dried after being "dunked and swished" in a cleaning solution, is going to end up a rusty and broken mess in quick order. A spring that is removed from a barrel and/or completely unwound, can be cleaned in solution, rinsed and relubricated just fine. In fact, I think it's preferable to doing what so many do when they just stretch it out and manually clean it. It is nearly impossible to thoroughly clean the innermost coils without using a cleaning solution. Also, from a chemistry viewpoint, can those people who use various combinations of WD40, mineral spirits, motor oil, etc, etc, show with certainty that there will not be an adverse chemical interaction of those substances that results in gummed, gelled and useless lubrication? It is interesting, in clock-repair circles, how many issues of how to "properly" repair a clock are debated and even fought over that have little, if any, basis in fact. A lot of it is voodoo. mb.nawcc.org/threads/cleaning-of-main-spring-s.95472/#post-719833

[@rehorneman]

@@dperry428 OH MY, thanks for the detailed response. Maybe I read never put barrel springs in the cleaner. That makes more sense. Glad your hand is good Can't wait for the cuckoo repair. I love cuckoos. Some of them are sooo complicated. I emailed one of the cuckoo book authors about a three weight cuckoo he said they are too complicated so he replaces them instead of trying to fix them.

[@chinhcotv4399]

OK !

[@winstonchurchill3597]

Lost art!

[@dperry428]

There are quite a few young people who are taking up clock repair.

[@bernardleguillou4137]

Do you have a email address so I can send you some pictures.

[@dperry428]

I do not publish an email address. However, you can post a comment with your email address and I will contact you. I hold comments for approval, so your email address will not appear in public. I will delete the comment without publishing it.

[@Landrew0]

One-handed videos are a torment.

[@sammyprestwood3182]

Seth Thomas clocks are some of the world's worst.to just want to run a minute or two and stop

[@dperry428]

That's simply not true. If it's only running a minute or two, it likely needs cleaned and rebushed. The pivot holes are worn because of running year after year after year without being serviced. Once properly serviced, they run as reliably as any other clocks of this type.