Dr Julie Hanks Responds to Criticisms (Part 1)

[@GingerNinja84]

Her teachings are a perfect example to me of “the philosophies of men mingled with scripture.” She tells half truths which is deceiving for those who follow her.

[@wellsjdan]

exactly, she's a typical liberal progressive trying to play both sides of the fence, luke warm.

[@DallasCrane]

Hanks is deliberate with her undisciplined redefinition of terms. It allows her the leeway to directly contradict prophetic teachings with catchy soundbites, and then retreat to vague platitudes when criticized. “Personal authority” as a motte is “your choices are valid by means of your choosing them. God blesses your decisions because they are meaningful to you. You can avoid the consequences by rejecting the general authority that warned you of them.” And the Bailey is “we all have agency to choose. [avoid any attempt to understand the fallout of negative choices]” This pattern is easy to see once you can pick up on an individual who will always wiggle away from a solid position. Even as you steelman them, they will say “no, that’s not it [you aren’t allowed to understand my position because I do not recognize your ability to criticize it as an equal]” Priestcraft is priestcraft.

[@nancylowe2692]

Wow. Well-put! My thoughts exactly. I just couldn't put them into words. She is deceiving people by avoiding any mention of the consequences of their choices!

[@TrebizondMusic-cm6fp]

I want to comb through all the LDS therapists and look for this, because I'm frequently bothered by sloppy use of language from some of them.

[@shirleybritton275]

Yeah like Jodi hildebrand. Many visits with church authorities on repeat. Zero discernment. You guys are so self important it’s a tiny tiny world of religious bigotry you are in with no tolerance for other faiths or faith constructs. See BITE model, or I’m guessing you disagree with that too ….. smh 😂

[@maryfranjeppesen8932]

Your guys are the best!!! Thank you for shining a light in her misguidance for so many!! She is WRONG!! SO WRONG!!

[@joscelynpease6656]

Love this, there are too many being led astray by charlatans. How she plays the victim for being called out on her teachings that are causing so much harm is ridiculous. I've heard this too many times, the most critical voices pull the whole charity card (which they use incorrectly) if you push back on any of their false claims.

[@germanslice]

The Church teaches the members To be in the world but not of the world. But she teaches the opposite to be in the world and of the world.

[@thehedin6]

Disgusting

[@melbournebeedyeyes3181]

Agree there are too many being led astray by charlatans. But food for thought, my understanding is that the initial testimony is gained by personal revelation I.e. praying to know the truthfulness of the book of mormon. If personal revelation is unreliable shouldn’t that be suspect as well or does it not work that way?

[@TrebizondMusic-cm6fp]

The smugness, the sheltering behind plausible deniability and the pretty face, the Need to Be Right... every time I hear her speak, alarms go off in my mind.

[@joybischoff9558]

Like Neal Maxwell said, the only thing we really can give God is our will.

[@PaultheCanadian]

Thank you for exposing Julie Hanks and her false philosophies of men. I choose to follow Christ and His true leaders.

[@mruss31415]

God's only God if you choose Him to be? Uh no. He's the judge whether you like it or not. Your agency doesn't alter His position as God and judge of the universe. Why is she so obsessed with "my choice" "my way" "my life", as if her philosophy is that you are your own god.

[@rickyde0255]

That might be the case.

[@Godinetfamily]

“He represents pride, liberty, and individualism-qualities often defined as Evil by those who worship external deities, who feel there is a war between their minds and emotions.” - church of satans first page explanation on their website Julie hanks is boring 😴 *snoring* but honestly she twists everything which I think she knows that and she promotes satans ideas of you are to honor yourself before all else (even God)

[@mruss31415]

@@Godinetfamily Wow interesting reference from satanism. I know Anthony LaVey was into that individualism stuff but seeing that quote shows how conspicuous the similarity is. Also Aleistar Crowley was into that stuff. We see it coming out today.

[@Godinetfamily]

@@mruss31415 for sure! It’s the religion of today. Pushed on us in every way. It breaks up marriages, end friendships, runs corruption in our government, promotes intolerance. It is anti-God who is good works, charity, loving kindness, service etc. And it’s easy to convince a person to do what they already want to do. There is no meekness, long suffering, faith, or enduring in that 🤷🏽‍♀️

[@thehedin6]

Says who? You? And the answer to my question isn’t, “God says.” Gross.

[@PeggyWest1127]

I go back to a talk given by Elder Bednar in the October 2012 GC, Converted unto the Lord. It’s the road map to keeping yourself from falling into these traps.

[@charlesfinn-z4d]

Mathew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

[@ninawigginton2559]

Keep it up! You two are great! More people need to hear the danger of her philosophies. And as a bonus I'm learning how to respond when others have adopted her philosophies as well.

[@wadeenglund5095]

Being a "good person" is a Terrestrial gospel, as opposed to the Celestial/exalting gospel offered by Christ's church. It doesn't require organized religion (i.e. the kingdom of God), but then it doesn't offer the eternal blessing that come through Christ and his gospel. It isn't that much different of a gospel than that offered by other Christian churches. If that is all people want, then Julie's way is the way for them. However, it isn't what God wants for them.

[@charlesfinn-z4d]

I get the impression Julie believes she’s keeping her covenants, wow.

[@l.tavakepaongo4205]

You are doing a great work calling these false teachers out.

[@6barbers]

She asked a poll… 80 % of her responders had left the church or are in a faith crisis … I screen shot it. She is preaching to her choir not the Lords

[@ryanburnett8985]

To answer Bridger's question here [27:58] : what was the first thing that Christ taught the Nephites? Repent and be baptized! (3 Nephi 11:41) It is EXTREMELY important to this life. We can't just hope everyone will do that in the millennium.

[@KH-fi9cm]

Right, was wondering how he missed that.

[@ryanburnett8985]

Amen Elder Holland!!!! We never check our religion at the door! [45:18] Amen Jacob at [47:35] When we are a covenant member of the church, you can't be truly neutral.

[@UtahKent]

The perils of Mug-Wumpery. Thinking you can safely play in the middle of the road is a sure way to get run over from at least one direction. The false compassion of the middle ground is a mine field.

[@Cindybin46]

I had never heard of Julie until a few days ago but did some research and read a lot of comments, and learned she cheers on gays living their "lifestyle" and even accepts pornography. And the video showing the brethren speaking and then her saying just the opposite was an eye-opener.

[@worldkeyvideo9080]

There is a fear to be ferm and strong in believing and defending doctrines and the tendency to move into neutrality is aluring to some members because members want to be kind to all people, but kindness should never be an excuse to corrupt our beliefs. It is necessary to defend ones beliefs when the world changes.

[@6barbers]

If Julie was not promoting her self as an LDS therapist and expert in LDS stuff she is like any other crystal lover, born again etc…. But she claims to be an authority on LDS topics

[@christianthompson9734]

To those who fall back on the "it will sort itself out in the millenium" excuse, Alma warned that we not procrastinate the day of our repentance, that the same spirit which possesses our bodies when we depart this life, thatsame spirit will have power to possess our bodies in the world to come.

[@mandywesthanks5050]

I think there is a good word for the work Julie is doing: priestcraft.

[@charlesfinn-z4d]

Priestcraft, are that people teach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world, no respecter of truth .

[@rusochileno639]

As opposed to the priesthood led by God 😂 If God led the church you wouldn’t have prophets teaching Polygamy, Adam-God and Blood Atonement then modern prophets changing and disavowing those doctrines

[@kristastrong]

I love President Hinckley and Elder Holland! Thank you so much for sharing their words which are truly inspirations from God. Thank you for all you are doing to build the Kingdom of God!

[@confusedwhynot]

My first issue I'm having with Julie Hanks' words is the fact that she is seeking for Heavenly Mother and pushing off Heavenly Father. Even more authority than God since her personal authority differs from the prophet. We make covenants to follow him. It sounds like she is giving God the privilege of being a part of her life. In my view she loves the attention she receives by being lukewarm.

[@canwenot2706]

Yes! A common theme today - "I will allow God to be a part of my life if He can prove He is as righteous as I am."

[@LatterDaisySaint]

I'm pretty sure a LOT of women are going to be surprised to find out Heavenly Mother doesn't approve of all this. I imagine it's similar to how I feel, when my children come to me because they think I will say "yes" and their dad will say "no"....like they are bypassing him. I continually remind them that we are ONE, and they are not to try going around Dad or manipulating things. If I feel they disrespect him in any way, I am *very* displeased.

[@TrebizondMusic-cm6fp]

I'd like to find someone who is seeking for Heavenly Mother without being motivated by antagonism towards men.

[@MikolDawn]

She seems Very prideful

[@shibainferno]

29:30 here “kindness” is neutral and that’s how these bad ideas launder into our vocabularies univocally. When Bridger says, “Kindness” he means the neutrality of not hurting people’s feelings When Joseph Smith says, “Kindness” he means actively working to make life better “Being good humans” doesn’t just mean “not hurting others” (which you can easily do just by sleeping) but it also means “actively working to improve life” That’s why fruits are so important-not only are they results, but they’re also the start needed to build something new Once people understand the difference between the neutral and active versions common words we use, we can stop getting Trojan Horsed by people who say pleasant things

[@alenewalker1188]

I have zero time for Julie Hanks. I am glad that you call these things out. I really feel sad that people can be mislead by this stuff.

[@christianthompson9734]

Dude, what you believe (and the covenants you make and keep) shape what you do and who you are.

[@777johbro]

Thanks, guys, for both the ideas and your model of how to disagree.

[@christianthompson9734]

"...having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof."

[@scotthansen3561]

Is Julies philosophy based in scripture? I haven’t heard her reference any.

[@thekolobsociety]

There is no doctrinal foundation that she has alluded to or shared.

[@tannercastle3868]

And yet thoughtful faith is consistently quoting prophets and scripture. Wonder who I will side with.. haha

[@MikolDawn]

Good thing she doesn’t

[@redplanet76]

Oh can’t wait for this … false doctrine, moral relativism and rationalism. Great combo Julie.

[@germanslice]

Its been one trainwreck after another with the things this woman has been saying. Nobody made her the authority of the Church to say what should or shouldn't be practiced in the church with its members.

[@TheYgds]

@@germanslice I can't agree more. Unlike the ever charitable Jacob, I think she knows precisely what she is doing. She is using her position and degree to defy the teachings of the Church, and when you call her out on it, she accuses you of maliciousness. Anybody in the Church, that is indifferent to, or encourages others to leave, and takes joy in their leaving and wickedness is not a faithful member, and certainly not a member acting in good faith. This becomes so much more evident when her prattlings have led so many to apostatize. God have mercy on her when the time comes.

[@germanslice]

@@TheYgds She is trying to lead the elect towards destruction by encouraging them to come out in open rebellion against God.

[@erin4885]

​@@TheYgds ever charitable? HAHAHAHAHA 🤣🤣🤣

[@germanslice]

@@erin4885 You can't replace the gospel with behavior modification. or your own set of rules.

[@leeuniverse]

I love how she didn't want to mention "who" and "what" Videos and responses she's responding to because she KNOWS very well they clearly shows she's in Apostacy and leading MANY other members into Apostacy. If she had actual integrity, and she KNEW she was doing "good", she wouldn't be at all "afraid" of showing the full facts and truth, aka WHO and what she's actually responding to. She's counting on the ignorance of her followers to just believe what she's saying, without allowing them to see for themselves if what she's saying is actually good and true. She's a classic CON ARTIST....

[@SaxSpy]

"i am therapist first and also a member." and yet her commentary is aimed at the church

[@elizabethdavis8594]

I did follow that way once and left the church. After some time I started to feel lost. I am now coming back to the church. I choose to listen to Christ through listening to the prophet.

[@christinegreenall9054]

Great episode. I agree with 90% of your take on this situation. The one place I think you are missing the mark is that licensed professional therapists are required to not impose their religion on clients per the professional ethics code. Not that someone has to compromise their values but they have to consider the clients values as they help them find a path forward. But I think there is plenty of secular data on the negative effects of pornography and addiction to deal with that without a religious bias. In everything else I think you are spot on.

[@charlesfinn-z4d]

The answer to pornography and addiction, if the person does not have the power to overcome,and they desire to overcome, would be to get power from without. For me, when I need power to overcome, I turn to the teachings of Jesus, right?

[@MikolDawn]

I think her target clients are members of the church who would rather not obey the commandments and she tells them not to feel guilty and just go ahead with whatever they want to do, to not listen and obey the Lord . Just do whatever you want. Which is one of Dr Satans therapy.

[@sama.scraps]

I’m concerned that there isn’t enough time spent among saints learning the gospel. We used to meet for 3 hours on Sunday, meet for Relief Society weekly and Young Men/ women’s weekly also. Many members need more support and learning, especially in this world of anarchy. I agree it’s our own responsibility to learn about the gospel but we need to help strengthen saints with gospel principles and understanding of those who would lead us astray. So how do we do this? How do we bring our brothers and sisters into an growing understanding of the gospel? Now, I’m not questioning the church authorities. Ultimately, this responsibility belongs to stakes and wards, families and individuals.

[@TheRealDonLayton]

God isn't the ultimate authority in our lives because we've chosen Him to be. Regardless of whether we choose Him or not, He is absolutely the ultimate authority in our lives. Moses had been raised in the courts of Pharaoh. He was in line to rule Egypt. Yet even Moses discovered that man is nothing, even though he had never supposed that before. Those who discount God as the ultimate authority in their lives will one day understand that without His grace, we could neither breathe, nor move, nor think, nor act. We can do those things because of Him and by His power. He grants us agency but even that is by His grace.

[@tsmithson1]

Ok, God is the ultimate authority. Does that mean that the Prophet serves as his surrogate here on earth?

[@TheRealDonLayton]

@@tsmithson1 "What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same." (D&C 1:38)

[@tsmithson1]

@@TheRealDonLayton D&C1: 24 Behold, I am God and have spoken it; these commandments are of me, and were given unto my servants in their weakness, after the manner of their language, that they might come to understanding. 25 And inasmuch as they erred it might be made known; Conflating God with humans has created a lot of problems, but it is a nice strategy for creating control. As the scripture above states, these things were given in weakness and in our "language". Their are all kinds of limitations on how information gets from God's head into humans heads. So, how many instances in our history have prophets differed from each other? The scripture above clearly states that his servants are weak, as are all of us. So, why don't we just suspend with pretending that prophets and apostles are so far above us and start connecting with each other the same way Jesus connected with us, through our weakness.

[@TheRealDonLayton]

​@@tsmithson1 Prophets are mortal - I absolutely agree. I also agree that they are prone to making mortal mistakes. But they are still the mouthpiece of God, "...when moved upon by the Holy Ghost". In other words, when a prophet speaks by the power of the Holy Ghost, it is the same as if God Himself had come down from the heavens and delivered the message. I'm curious as to your larger point here. Are you suggesting that since prophets are mortal, that we cannot trust them to lead us according to the will of God? Because even the passage you cited (which is right one btw), suggests the very opposite. It suggests that the Lord will use His prophets to lead and teach and warn, not because they are infallible, but even in their weakness. The context of that passage is set in an earlier verse, which reads: "I the Lord, knowing the calamity which should come upon the inhabitants of the earth, called upon my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and spake unto him from heaven, and gave him commandments (D&C 1:17). In other words, God gave commandments through the prophet Joseph - in spite of his weakness. If he erred, it would be made known. And it has been with Joseph, Brigham and the others. "So, how many instances in our history have prophets differed from each other?" In doctrinal matters, none. Can you point to anything that any Latter-day prophet has taught and accepted by the church as doctrine that has been contradicted by another? I can't. I can think of a few of their opinions that have contradicted one another. But in matters of doctrine, no.

[@tsmithson1]

@@TheRealDonLayton My bigger point is that I believe Prophets, Apostles, Bishops, Elders Presidents, Fathers, etc are all called to be servants, not dictators. In the most of mature situations, I believe revelation is complete as a meeting of the minds. As an example, years ago our good Bishop called my wife to be the Primary President. He was well aware of the current demands of our 2 year old daughters health condition. In all his wisdom, maturity and courage he told her he felt inspired to call her but that his revelation was only to be complete by her own. He told her, if current circumstances were to heavy to take on the new load, that her own revelation was the ratifying vote. My Mother had the exact opposite experience with a stake president that called her to a position. Similarly my Mother felt prompted to turn down the call based on current circumstances. The Stake President told her she had been deceived, that her revelation was from the devil. Unfortunately, "Follow the Prophet" has taken on a life of its own, it has turned into a weapon of sorts, a way to cudgel people into doing what we want them to do. I don't believe that "Follow the Propeht" means I hand over my responsibility for my own desisions. It doesn't assign another superior human to be in charge on my life, or at least the part he deems necessary. We have so many language issues that our doctirnes and principles are based on very limited translation issues or outright incorrect translations. Case in point, the principle of Obedience has become a, jump through the hoops, comply with the powers that be or else. It, however, comes from the root "Obedire", which means to actively listen and consider. We say that obedience is the 1st law of heaven, NO it's not, the highest law is the only one that has the power to change us, "Love".

[@UtahKent]

And of course, if she leaves the church on her own choice she doesn't get to play "the victim card." Harsh? Based on experience!

[@OutspokenSamantha]

14:00 - I think you guys missed an important point to what Julie was saying - when she says she chooses for God to be the authority in her life, and it's okay if other people choose not to - she's basically making the case that there's no real need for a Prophet. She believes, to an extent, that the leaders of the church are given authority by God, and their direction *can* bring us joy - However, she also thinks that the Prophet is good for people who just want to be comfortable and let someone else tell them what to do - but going straight to God is just another way to receive authority that's just as legitimate as if it came from the Prophet. She believes that God's instruction to us personally supercedes the instruction from the Prophet that's meant for all members, especially if that personal authority is different than what the church leaders have said. Either way, you can choose whatever method of God's authority in your life, and you won't be judged any differently. AND - she's also mistaking the fact that God hasn't stepped in and stopped her from acting on her "personal authority" as approval from him.

[@kiraniedens4038]

So why aren’t we challenging Joseph Smith receiving revelation “from God” to marry Zina Huntington? She told him no, yet God insisted Joseph had to marry her? That wreaks of Joseph insisting God told him something just so he can have what he wants. Pot me kettle with your argument on this one! Ah, but wait you say? Julie is subjected to the brethren and as the prophet Joseph could make up whatever revelations he wanted with no system of checks and balances!

[@nomadbrad6391]

The life of the Israelites was to enter into Covenants looking forward the Christ's ministry and atonement. The life of the Nephites was to look forward to Christ's visitation. Everything Joseph Smith did was to re-establish the Kingdom of God and help us to prepare for the 2nd coming.....Kindness is a FRUIT of preparing for the 2nd Coming.

[@potchergirl]

The idea that we really do choose for ourselves I think is not a bad one. Sometimes we need a reality check that we are, in fact, exercising our agency and “opting in” of our free will, especially on any doctrine or teaching that we struggle with. With that, though, needs to come the reminder that we have made covenants, and the question to ourselves “Is this keeping or breaking my covenants?” For those who have already made promises and want to be faithful, this should result in a firmer desire to do the Lord’s will and a better understanding of the gospel. But to pretend that any answer to that question is consequence-free is unethical. It’s asking people to act against their own deeply held beliefs, which does not seem helpful even from a non-religious point of view.

[@lapiccolanonnina9801]

Well, be a good person is good enough for the Terrestrial Kingdom…. I guess they made their choice. I don’t think it’s sad that they gave up the Celestial Kingdom. It’s sad that she is deceiving people and luring them to the shortcut that will take them to the Terrestrial one…. Sad. Thanks for this piece, I really liked it!

[@melbournebeedyeyes3181]

Sad that you really believe that. I have been there, and hope you are able to rise above this

[@charlesfinn-z4d]

Agency was paid for by Jesus’s infinite, incomprehensible,pain and suffering. Galatians 6:7. Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

[@madvinmryk]

One is never stagnant spiritually. Don't superficially damn anyone for being on that level. There is always the opportunity to advance to the next spiritual level.

[@davidfrey5654]

The answer to your question about therapist first or member first...it IS a bit tricky. I'm a men's marriage coach. Some of my clients are LDS and some are not. It wouldn't be ethical of me to advise or even heavily suggest that a non-LDS client pray to God for his marriage. That is imposing my religious beliefs on him. In my profession, that's unethical. It's not like having a job in the business world. So she is in kind of a pickle. At the same time, she shouldn't be imposing secular views on LDS folks if she is saying publicly that she is LDS. That's a bit disingenuous too. In my opinion, if she is counseling LDS people in public, which she does on her podcast, and she is LDS, she should be true to her faith.

[@oceancoast92657]

Her Pod cast is like a younger modern day "Dr Laura'' radio program.. Maybe some of you remember Dr. Laura Schlessinger on Radio.. I guess she's still doing it on XM Radio. And I would say Julie doing a very difficult job.. threading the needle between the discipline of Psychotherapy and that of the Church, it's doctrine and culture. The two don't always mix well. And yes, if it's a pod cast dealing with psychotherapy.. it's therapist first. She's NOT acting in the role as someone's Bishop, she's a therapist. Sometimes what's good for someone's mental well being won't always square perfectly with the doctrines or culture of the church.. and it shouldn't have too either. In Utah especially there is a LDS Culture that is often mistaken for LDS Doctrine. And that culture can be overbearing and unforgiving.. We who are LDS outside of Utah, tend to label the behavior as 'Utah Mormons'.. the kind of LDS member who because they are immersed in community that is so heavy with LDS members.. the lines between what is actually 'Doctrine' and what is simply policy or culture is blurred. We who live outside of the Mormon Corridor are more or less a minority , and thus our faith is more spiritual based upon actual doctrine rather than culture .

[@davidfrey5654]

@@oceancoast92657 James I agree with you in a lot of what you said. This is a true statement, "someone's mental well being won't always square perfectly with the doctrines or culture of the church." Like I said, she's in a pickle. Straddling therapy and the doctrines of the church is challenging. She said herself in the interview, that she doesn't not position herself as an "LDS Therapist" yet, probably 90% of her clientele are LDS (maybe more). The problem is that, although she does not position herself as an LDS therapist, that's who she talks to on her podcasts and those are the topics she talks about and she posts 'LDS oriented content on her social media channels. So even though she says she's not an LDS therapist, she really is in her behaviors. And when acts as an LDS therapist, she says and encourages things that are exactly the opposite of what LDS church leaders are teaching. So that would be okay, maybe, if she was in a private practice seeing people one on one. But she's publicly teaching these things and that's where she steps over the line. (In my opinion). And it's worse because she has such a large LDS audience. If you look at Jody Moore, who is a wildly popular LDS life coach, she doesn't have any of the problems that Julie does. She's able to straddle the "therapy" world and LDS doctrine just fine. Julie tries to square the conflict between doctrine and therapy by using the term, "personal authority," which simply does not jive with much of the doctrine of the church. And she, herself, just isn't a fully orthodox members, so that bleeds out into her therapy with members. Anyway, it's a tough position. But she IS leading many people away from their covenants with her teachings and that's eventually going to get her in hot water with the church.

[@oceancoast92657]

@@davidfrey5654 One distinctive difference between Jody Moore and Julie Hanks.. Julie is a Therapist, and has a PHD in the field. Jody is a LIFE COACH, BA in communications and a MA in Education, experience in Corporate Coaching. . Life Coaches focus on achievements and goals versus mental health. Therapists are more focused on mental well being. A life coach Jody might tell you to read "How to win friends and influence people" or "7 Habits for highly effective people." whereas the Therapist Julie might recommend " I'm OK, You're OK". So in that context it easy to see how Jody can more easily navigate since her mission is less about one's mental health and more about goals and achievement which often squares better with the Church doctrine or at least not conflict. A Bishop can be your life coach, but your Bishop may not be well suited to be your Therapist. I think the real issue you have is that she does public Therapy on her pod casts. It would be unfortunate if she ever got in hot water with the church over her pod cast. Personally I haven't found anything she said to be that offensive. but I'm a little unorthodox myself.. And have had many a conversation with my Bishop or Stake president, Temple president etc. All of which find my insights welcome. But I understand there are those in the church which are very ridged and unforgiving toward anyone they feel colors outside the lines. Personally, I think those people are the one's needing Therapy.

[@JMcD86]

@@davidfrey5654 "And when acts as an LDS therapist" She doesn't claim to be an LDS therapist. She's a therapist. You're contradicting yourself quite a bit in your responses. Are you a therapist with a master's degree or doctorate or are you a marriage coach. the two are VERY different with VERY different guidelines.

[@davidfrey5654]

@@oceancoast92657 Yes, I'm totally aware that one is a life coach and one is a therapist. But they BOTH tackle very similar issues. I've listened to both their podcasts pretty extensively. Many of the issues they advise on are the same. What you call "rigid and unforgiving" other covenant keeping members call...well...covenant keeping. Advising members to ignore the Prophet and Apostles, or telling members it's not sinful to indulge in pornography, or that they don't have to go to church and take the sacrament and still be worthy of their covenants, is not only not orthodox, it's apostacy. And yes, as I said in my previous post, from the church's standpoint, if she was telling people these things in her one on one sessions, I'm not sure the church would not care. But when you build a mass following of members and tell them these things, now we have a big problem. Let's supposed you start a Facebook group. You post rules of the Facebook group. People that join, have to abide by those rules. If you had one person who was continually breaking those rules in your Facebook group you might send a warning to. But if they continue to break the rules, you would probably kick them out. Or better put, they kicked themself out of your group. It's no different with the church. The church has a code of conduct for it's membership. If someone is publicly breaking those rules over and over again, and leading people astray from the tenets of the church, they would have no choice but to dismiss her. And I don't think any orthodox members need any "therapy" to understand that.

[@tsmithson1]

“A finger pointing at the moon is not the moon. The finger is needed to know where to look for the moon, but if you mistake the finger for the moon itself, you will never know the real moon.” It's NOT about the ordinance, it's about what the ordinance reveals, where it points. Ordinances are essential as a matter of completion, they are essential in their symbolism of walking in Godliness. God doesn't care per se that we are physically dunked under water, as if the physical act serves as a ticket to heaven. We utilize ritual as a formal indication that I am committing myself to the process of death and resurrection, of constantly moving through the mode of sacrificing myself and being reborn. Jesus showed us how to be redeemed, and he said, come follow me, all the way to the empty tomb on Sunday. We have a tendency to suggest that ordinances are the moon, when they are only the finger pointing at the moon. This is how subtle idolatry can be and unfortunately, we are not immune to it.

[@shirleybritton275]

Covenants can’t be used as a binding instrument against an 8 year old OR without consent and information on said covenants BEFORE being in a situation where one is “making the covenant “ without any prior knowledge or what you’re agreeing to. That’s not Christlike

[@andrewdurfee3896]

There is double speak and more lawyer language. She is dancing around the issue.

[@mlg74]

The war in heaven rages on! If I could guess, these are the same arguments

[@cadenheaton3482]

This is a great video and was really educational on How to refute the subtle tiny lies of the adversary that are recking havoc today within the church and outside. I thought key points were 1. Understanding agency and, most importantly, the purpose of it. ( to choose everlasting joy or destruction) 2. The purpose of this life. Which shocked me when these 2 lds members think that the ordinances and covenants God established in his church have to importance to anyone in this life. Why did he bother to establish this path if it had no critical importance?

[@TaylorVancour]

Its an extremely unsettling thought that crosses my mind when a well educated person who’s very education is extensively in the study of the human mind says that “I’m not that powerful” alluding to that fact that no one is going to leave the church because of her “powerless” influence or ideology. It’s even more unsettling when you consider that assumingely she has an understanding that most of her audience are people coming from a vulnerable place and are extremely impressionable. this is a testament to me that there is a reason why the prophet of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, President Russel M. Nelson has repeatedly said “How we treat each other really matters! How we speak to and about others at home, at church, at work, and online really matters.” Why does it matter? because even me being someone who’s education doesn’t even come close to Dr. Julies’ formal education, holds a certain amount of power to influence those around me. That being said I don’t think that Dr. Julie is some evil person trying to lead people astray but I do think she falls under the dialogue that Dan Ellsworth and Jeff Bennion have come up with in their article titled “Empathy or Echo Chambers” published in public square magazine. Which physiologically gives insight as to why a person might believe in certain contrasting ideas.

[@jennyomalley9212]

Bridger told me about your channel and highly recommend your channel to me as one of the channels that helped him.

[@shelleykaye6757]

In her effort to 'help' individuals develop a sense of 'self' and build self confidence etc. which as a therapist, she most likely deals with suffering individuals who seldom have appropriate levels of self worth. So in her effort to help point them to the solution, she unwittingly emphasizes free agency OVER the gospel. She may be on an elementary level while the church is on the celestial level. But unfortunately as a member, she is pulling people down instead of encouraging them on the path, where they will eventually find all the answers they are seeking. I was one of these struggling individuals when I was much younger. But the gospel has ALL the answers you need. It answers all the questions and she should be using her influence to promote this.

[@livingmombirth4005]

Exciting high drama! Good job guys

[@madvinmryk]

Thoughtful Faith seems to be saying the prophets will not lead you astray (which is not doctrine), where Hanks is saying get your own testimony of what the brethren are saying. Indeed, the brethren have always told us to pray about what they say and get your own testimony in that regard. The Lord expects that. Does she take the idea of personal revelation too far? That's always a danger.

[@denaecoco400]

Helaman 13: 24 Yea, wo unto this people, because of this time which has arrived, that ye do cast out the prophets, and do mock them, and cast stones at them, and do slay them, and do all manner of iniquity unto them, even as they did of old time. 25 And now when ye talk, ye say: If our days had been in the days of our fathers of old, we would not have slain the prophets; we would not have stoned them, and cast them out. 26 Behold ye are worse than they; for as the Lord liveth, if a prophet come among you and declareth unto you the word of the Lord, which testifieth of your sins and iniquities, ye are angry with him, and cast him out and seek all manner of ways to destroy him; yea, you will say that he is a false prophet, and that he is a sinner, and of the devil, because he testifieth that your deeds are evil. 27 But behold, if a man shall come among you and shall say: Do this, and there is no iniquity; do that and ye shall not suffer; yea, he will say: Walk after the pride of your own hearts; yea, walk after the pride of your eyes, and do whatsoever your heart desireth-and if a man shall come among you and say this, ye will receive him, and say that he is a prophet. 28 Yea, ye will lift him up, and ye will give unto him of your substance; ye will give unto him of your gold, and of your silver, and ye will clothe him with costly apparel; and because he speaketh flattering words unto you, and he saith that all is well, then ye will not find fault with him. 29 O ye wicked and ye perverse generation; ye hardened and ye stiffnecked people, how long will ye suppose that the Lord will suffer you? Yea, how long will ye suffer yourselves to be led by foolish and blind guides? Yea, how long will ye choose darkness rather than light?

[@mruss31415]

I think Julie wants a different church. You don't accept the divine appointment of the brethren and support them in this role? You don't like the patriarchal hierarchy that God has always established and which He Himself follows. You don't like the fundamental teachings of the Church (and scripture) on family, marriage, and sexual relationships.

[@tsmithson1]

I think you should brush up on your history with regards to Partriarchy being God's preferred social structure. Patriarchy is just as man made as matriarchy. WE have done so many things to shape God in our image, to create power over people. Jesus' entire ministry is him challenging the status quo, preaching against those who profess to be the rule keepers. Jesus was standing AGAINST the Roman Empire, and the dominant Jewish tradition that had become corrupt. Sure, they were religious, but their religion was just a way to justify their dividing the world into have and have nots. After all, Christianity was utterly persecuted from the time of Jesus until 380 AD, when Constantine endorsed Christianity as the official religion. It's no wonder that our inherited Christian language carry's heavy legalistic metaphors. The Romans commandeered Christianity for their own political purposes. That is why we still today see the Atonement predominantly as "Penal Substitution", sin is treated as crime, in need of penalty and punishment. What a shame that even we, the restored church, have been unable to shed that horrible metaphor. Jesus didn't come to pay the penalty for sin, he came to awaken mankind to love.

[@mruss31415]

@@tsmithson1 Patriarchy has been God's established hierarchy from Adam and Eve, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, ... on and on to God, the ultimate Ruler, Judge, and Patriarch of the Kingdom of Heaven.

[@tsmithson1]

@@mruss31415 And we have abused it, used it for unwise purposes. So if it's God's way, then why does the church not stick to its guns with the overt temple language about women "Giving themselves to their husband". They changed that language to give women equal access to God, NOT through a mediator. This is likely the first step of many to correct a structure that has been abused.

[@mruss31415]

@@tsmithson1 I don't see your point. You say that patriarchy is God's way and is taught in the church but that it can be, or has been, abused? Of course there are many cases when men have abused the structure of the patriarchy but that doesn't change the fact that it is God's order He has always taught. That's my point

[@hulligans2866]

Wow, I was very surprised by Bridger’s comments! I’ve liked his content in the past. 🤔 Suuper alarming to hear her comments about pornography. Among others!

[@spencerclark399]

I have a good friend who fell away because of Dr Hanks’ mindset. She was told that no one’s hands should be on her life’s steering wheel but her own. No “Jesus take the wheel” mentality could allow her to realize her happiness. So she dumped her husband and lives with her boyfriend and has never looked back. She has left deep pain in her wake and couldn’t care less. Her disillusioned husband has also not been back to church.

[@-tikla]

"Thy prophets (speaking of false prophets) have seen vain and foolish things for thee: and they have not discovered thine iniquity, to turn away thy captivity; but have seen for thee false burdens and causes of banishment." lamentations 2:14

[@1807becky]

She knows that her followers are leaving the church, that she has led a lot of people that way, and she is continuing in the mission that facilitates that. I think that is really the "tell."

[@ScripturesMadeSimple]

I think you were talking past Julie on the going too far section about personal authority. I believe you both are correct. God is the ultimate truth of our life however he will not force his authority upon us. That is why the concept of Outer Darkness exists. God will not make us choose to accept the Atonement. Having a choice is there even if it means we make a bad choice. "What should be" is still subjective. There is what God wants to happen and there is what we want as well. We can make a choice for good or bad. On the idea of how do you know if it is the spirit or not we always need to remember that God is Univocal in his work with us. If we all truly follow the truth we will end up in the same place. That being said, though, the path we take to God does not have to be the exact same as everyone else. The plan of salvation is not a specific road map but a series of mile markers that guide us on our path to God. The ordinances are the mile markers. If we follow them we will end up in the same place. I would not say that leaving the church is a good idea on your path to Christ. While it is true you can have a connection with God without the church, your connection is very limited due to not having the ordinances done.

[@PipeDaddy907]

To an unbaptised person who actually still is a free-agent, I would agree with her that they are the authority over their own life, however, we have made covenants and signed onto a team and are no longer free-agents, making us subordinate to the owner of our team, AKA God

[@henrikskoienschool]

This reminds me of Orson F. Whitney's response to the poem "Invictus" by Ernest Henley. You are not the captain of your soul. Christ is.

[@beckischreyer]

Therapist first? Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and his righteousness and all these things will be added unto you. ❤ Thanks for this video

[@jonathanhopkins8565]

What I'd say in response to Bridger here 25:42 The 99.9% if people isn't something to get hung up about. All 100% if God's children are accountable in relation to His law that has hold upon them. All mankind will be judged for their works and eventually must accept Jesus Christ through ordinances obtained in this mortal sphere, or not. The sermon on the mount was not Jesus Christ's be-all-end-all sermon on what's necessary for salvation. He didn't dump every single covenant step on their heads because that wouldn't have been appropriate for them. There is much secrecy in the gospel, especially relating to temples, which, if Bridger wants to know where Jesus does talk about those things he just has to learn about the 40 day interval of teaching that Jesus had with the apostles after his resurrection. That's the place to look for those things, not the sermon on the mount. As for whether the purpose of life is about "becoming a good person" or taking part in ordinances: Should we really be seperating the two like that? We understand that the first fruits of repentance (becoming a better person or turning to Christ [who is the source of all good]) IS BAPTISM. Saying that this life's purpose isn't to receive ordinances of salvation is like saying that the purpose of an apple tree ISN'T to produce apples. The two go together, and for that 99.9% that don't get a chance to do so here will have provision made for them by those living so that they can be saved as well. All according to God's just accounting for how they lived their lives. Then comes in Jacob's point: If you're a member of the church who should understand what I've just described, then why on earth would you go about saying that being part of the church wasn't as important as something else? The only reason you'd be doing that is if you didn't understand why those things are important or how God's justice really works. It is necessary to "hearken to the voice of the Lord" to whatever degree you hear it. Eventually, all must do so. For those who have heard it on earth (like us) we should follow it. And for those who perhaps have not, we should share.

[@SaxSpy]

I used to listen to Bridger but then I realized. How wishy washy and woke he actually was so I stopped

[@beckischreyer]

She’s mixing up “authority” which is granted to individuals to teach, lead, preach… with agency… which we were given at birth as it’s the critical part of the plan of salvation. We do all have agency… we are granted authority when we prove ourselves worthy

[@ItsSnagret]

Therapists are not value neutral, secular or LDS, so we shouldn’t act like they should be (see Slife, Myth of Neutrality). Be up front with your worldview as a therapist - I believe you’re a meat machine who needs to change your chemistry and environment to regulate your experience, or I believe you’re a child of God with divine potential and access to the power of God that can help you in your suffering and bless you in deriving meaning in your experience.

[@charlesfinn-z4d]

Julie said if people follow her, and leave the Church. Julie, are you saying you’re not in the church? That must be a burden off your shoulders. Thanks for your honesty.

[@China-Clay]

People are leaving religion in droves, Julie has been a huge help to me in in my family better, I can handle her independent thought process, there is room for her at the table

[@ItsSnagret]

Me rn: 👀🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿

[@Liberty-LLama]

The number one issue I see here is the idea and concept of absolute truth. If we hold that everyone here chose the plan of salvation as presented by Christ in the pre-mortal existence, then how can we say the truth of Christ's church not be for everyone? Being a part of the church at that point would be not more meaningful than any other religion, or even non religion.

[@ScottKin]

Bridger and Julie are lost. The best they can do now is to be "good people" because of their deep drift from The Restored Gospel.

[@ninawigginton2559]

I'm not their judge but it makes me think of certain kingdoms in heaven and what is required to enter each of them. It's wonderful to be a "good person" but not enough if you want to enter the celestial kingdom.

[@tsmithson1]

Is not being "Good People" the point?

[@melbournebeedyeyes3181]

I always found it interesting that Jesus never emphasized ordinances. He waited until his thirties to be baptized for example. If it was so critical to salvation you would think there would be a record of it in the New Testament, and the Book of Mormon for that matter. Any thoughts on the matter? Just curious

[@trishie818]

oh dear! We need these ideas to be exposed and shed light on

[@sarahtramacchi7180]

Was hoping this would be an uplifting informative discussion, not almost an hour of tearing someone else down. It has reminded me to remove the beam from my eye and focus on what I need to work on within myself rather than what other people are doing, for that I am grateful.

[@dc3779]

Why is Bridger talking about communication to 99.9% of the world population? Julie Hanks messaging is primarily to members who have already made covenants. Which makes her messaging even worse.

[@GingerNinja84]

Finally people are exposing this false prophet! Her opinions have led so many astray, especially young adult women. They misunderstand their covenants and believe commandments are culture. She teaches them how to “politely” tell their parents to shut up if they challenge their ideas, yet SHE has become the new parent because they eat up everything she says. She never posts about having faith without a perfect understanding. She’s coaching people HOW to leave the church, not encouraging them to stay. She has a following, this is a business for her and I am waiting for her to get excommunicated. She can’t go down this path pulling her following away from the gospel without some intervention from the church.

[@devinhinkson3798]

23:50 She talks about finding ourselves and developing our own sense of self but here is what the lord through his servant said. “Men and women who turn their lives over to God will find that He can make a lot more out of their lives than they can. He will deepen their joys, expand their vision, quicken their minds, strengthen their muscles, lift their spirits, multiply their blessings, increase their opportunities, comfort their souls, raise up friends, and pour out peace.” They will have more of themselves to give

[@DallinBunnell]

Makes me wonder if she truly believes in the concepts of sin and eternal, universal truth. 🤔

[@theDarkKni9ht]

I think you guys are focusing on the CONSEQUENCES part of it, in which case God IS the ultimate authority - you're 100% correct. We can (unwisely) make a choice contrary to His will, but we absolutely CANNOT bring about a consequence contrary to His will. I think she's focusing on the CHOICE part of it, in which case God DID preserve our agency so we can choose whether to follow Him - so she's correct on that. I think both parties are simply focusing on different aspects. HOWEVER, I agree that your concern surrounding this point is warranted. I think she's confusing "possible" with "permissible" and substituting "permissible" with "okay". Unfortunately, people often associate "okay" with "favorable". So if she means what I'm steelmanning her argument as, her language should be more specific, lest it mislead people. I'd use something like, "It is POSSIBLE to choose to not follow God since He did preserve our agency, but it will definitely NOT BE FAVORABLE for us if the Celestial Kingdom is our goal, since God's laws are clear and His is the ultimate authority." See 2 Nephi 2 : 27-30. www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/2?lang=eng&id=p27-p30#p27

[@thekolobsociety]

You got it

[@theDarkKni9ht]

My comment above was formed before the 14:00 mark. I thought you were simply focusing on a different aspect than her, but after having listened to more, I understand why you were disagreeing so vehemently. Like me, you don't wish for a single person to distance themselves from God. So everything we say should be EXPLICITLY encouraging them to turn to and stay near God. Her language beyond just the 14:00 mark seems to repeat the theme of, "Your choice," with a full stop, as though any choice is just as good as another, because she's not following it up with any caution. Caution would lead us to understand that the ultimate good is all of us choosing to return to Heavenly Father, thanks to the grace of Jesus Christ. So if somebody's making a choice that leads them away from God, we shouldn't just shrug and say, "Your choice." If we truly love them, we'd ALWAYS be saying something like, "It's your choice, BUT PLEASE DON'T MAKE IT. I love you. Please stay in the boat. We want you to come Home to God with us." It makes me think of both Elder Ballard's talk as well as Elder Holland's consistent pleas for people to stay. Elder Ballard: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2014/10/stay-in-the-boat-and-hold-on?lang=eng Elder Holland: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2022/04/23holland?lang=eng Unfortunately, from the bits I've heard of her here, her language seems devoid of that pleading for people to stay close to God. Maybe she does it elsewhere. I hope so, but I'm not going to spend my time watching her to see if she does. I'm going to spend it encouraging others to stay close to God.

[@tsmithson1]

Thank you for pointing this out. I think we to often place focus on the harm we are doing to God, as if his plan, as designed by him was about him. His plan is about us. I don't think our choices anger him because they threaten his authority or damage his ego. He is saddened because our choices harm us and shrink our capacity to relate to others around us. His command for us to praise him has nothing to do with his need to be validated, that would not be a God I would worship. Praise is about imitation, he is asking us to imitate him, to model ourselves after him.

[@MakelleBell]

Wait, isn't the terrestrial kingdom made up of good, "kind" people, who just didn't want to accept the gospel? 😂. Yeah, I think God had a higher purpose for us than that.

[@JakeJohnson-lu8xy]

The stick of joseph podcast spoke about the sermon on the mount and looked and it through the lense that it is a covenant/ordinace. Pretty awesome and eye opening

[@dr33776]

They also felt for fake Saudi gold plates so…

[@TheLaxer0]

Funny how Bridger decides to disregard every other statement of Joseph Smith and decides to summarize Joseph’s concept of the purpose of life with the passing comment of “Kindness is our religion”

[@MercurialMaven]

The most charitable judgement of her "cafeteria mormon" comment is that she used a terrible analogy. It took me all of 30 seconds to come up with a better one. When we build a house, we may focus on building small parts of it at a time, but the ultimate goal is wholeness or completeness. Likewise, as we strive to develop our Christlike character, we may focus on single aspects at a time, but the ultimate goal is "perfection in Christ." The cafeteria analogy implies so much that isn't true, and her use of the term is contrary to common understanding and usage. I don't think Julie deserve this charitable judgement, however. I think she intentionally deceives with her language and then tries to slip away when you pin her to it.

[@TrebizondMusic-cm6fp]

She definitely is using weasel words in a slippery way, to try to preserve plausible deniability so that she can always claim the moral high ground.

[@krisbale2107]

This lady uses a little truth to confirm her ideology. Those who follow her, are clearly looking for any excuse to live and be OF the world. You will always find what you are looking for.

[@scottmitts6870]

Bridger is teaching a terrestrial kingdom gospel.

[@vladimiralexisduarte7028]

I don't have anything against Jacob or Julie, obviously they both have different opinions regarding what agency is. Yes, of course God wants us to choose the right always, but we all know that even after becoming members of the church and receiving covenants in the temple, that doesn't make us perfect, and congratulations for those few members who have a full understanding of the doctrine and the covenants we receive in the church and live strictly tight to them. Unfortunately, most of us simply manage to obey God's commandments the best way we can in spite of our personal imperfections. We love the gospel of Jesus Christ, we know that it is a wonderful blessing to have it restored in these latter-days to bring salvation for our souls. I see Jacob criticizing Julie in a way that shows his arrogance for the knowledge he has about the doctrine, but he forgets the commandment of loving one another. I notice more love in Julie's words although not so doctrinal nor religious. At least, that is my perception with these videos. "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." Matthew 23:23

[@teresawoodside4051]

“Look at the people you know on Instagram and who they follow and there is a pattern”. Oh boy did you get that right. All my friends who are in academia (aka professors or teachers), who are feminists or LGBTQ follow her.

[@JMcD86]

"All my friends who are in academia (aka professors or teachers), who are feminists or LGBTQ follow her." Do your friends know that you judge them based off of them being LGBTQIA+ or feminists? Before you say you don't, your sentence quoted above is proof that you do. Have you asked yourself why your LGBTQIA+ friends don't feel safe with other accounts and her account is a safe space for them? Have you asked your friends about it?

[@rickyde0255]

You are noting a legitimate pattern.

[@teresawoodside4051]

@@JMcD86 first you don’t know anything about me or my friends many of whom are LGBTQ and by the way know that I am LDS. As a matter of fact I had an experience where one person who I work with told me that they were worried about working with me due to them being LGBTQ and me LDS. They said, “I am so glad I didn’t listen to or believe what I heard because you are nothing like those terrible lies led me to believe LDS people are!” We can love people, serve them and uplift them without compromising the Doctrine of Christ! The reality is that people who are looking to be validated in behavior that is contrary to the Doctrine of Christ know exactly where to go to find that. The Kingdom of God on earth is not going to validate unrighteousness of any kind but it is where anyone can and should go to find love, support and kindness!

[@teresawoodside4051]

@@rickyde0255 the reality was that I had been noticing comments Julie had made and some other friends of mine were sort of mimicking those so I went and searched and sure enough many of my friends who are professors or teachers or who wave the banner of feminism were all followers of hers. It seemed very curious to me!

[@bittersweet340]

Christ appears to the eleven disciples on a mountain in Galilee some doubted his reply in Mathew 28:18. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth... I think that clears up that confusion...

[@stephanielibbert1668]

No needs Julie's permission or anyones permission to leave!

[@devinhinkson3798]

Julia is the definition of wolf in sheep's clothing. She tries to appear innocent, but inwardly is a ravening wolf trying to destroy faith. The fruit is clear

[@thekolobsociety]

"34 And after he was slain I saw the multitudes of the earth, that they were gathered together to fight against the apostles of the Lamb; for thus were the twelve called by the angel of the Lord. 35 And the multitude of the earth was gathered together; and I beheld that they were in a large and spacious building, like unto the building which my father saw. And the angel of the Lord spake unto me again, saying: Behold the world and the wisdom thereof; yea, behold the house of Israel hath gathered together to fight against the twelve apostles of the Lamb. 36 And it came to pass that I saw and bear record, that the great and spacious building was the pride of the world; and it fell, and the fall thereof was exceedingly great. And the angel of the Lord spake unto me again, saying: Thus shall be the destruction of all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, that shall fight against the twelve apostles of the Lamb." (1 Nephi 11)

[@GameDevFox]

18:01 One of the greatest deceptions today is the erroneous assumption that we, as people, are "good". Mark 10:18 "And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God." Even Christ didn't categorize Himself as "good" at this moment because He hadn't completed all of His Father's work. He wouldn't even refer to Himself as "perfect" until after His atonement and resurrection when He ministered to the Nephites on the American continent. If Christ didn't even call Himself "good" in this life, how can we be justified in calling ourselves or anyone else "good"? "There is none good but one, that is, God."

[@kirashaffer]

Oh wow! Bridger threw you guys under the bus right at the start.

[@stephanielibbert1668]

It's absolutely true you don't need middleman to have a relationship with God. Not primarily purpose of life it connection and relationship.

[@EstevanLPLeal]

This "personal authority" thing is messed up. This is simply agency (and bad use of it for that matter). Personal revelation is ALWAYS align with the scriptures and the teachings of the prophets. That's the security check. There is a bunch of shows on streaming services that show what happens when someone thinks God reveals to them something contrary to the canon and modern revelation.

[@jonbystrom9410]

Joseph Smith and Christ taught personal revelation. You boys don't. You two follow Brigham Young.

[@canwenot2706]

@@jonbystrom9410 They also taught to follow prophets and servants of Christ. We need to do both. Anyone who emphasizes one over the other doesn't understand that Christ has multiple channels of communication. Emphasizing personal authority without the tension of general authority will encourage people to ignore Christ's alternate channels. This concept is essentially Jacob's trademark, and its well established by Joseph Smith, Christ, and Brigham Young.

[@tsmithson1]

This is an incredibly complicated matter because scripture is NOT God's divine dictation, it's man's feeble attempt to record what they believe God is telling them. Scripture is also peoples personal experience with coming to know and trust God, and it's often quite a messy matter.

[@EstevanLPLeal]

Personal revelation (doctrinal) = when God inspires you in line with all previous revelead truth. God will never inspire you to do something contrary to phophets and revelation to the Church. Personal authority (false teaching/doctrine) = I do what is most convenient to me or what I like. I cherry pick the teachings I like and can freely disregard something a prophet or apostle said if I thin differently.

[@tsmithson1]

@@EstevanLPLeal it's just this structural design, the keep your mouth shut, blind obedience that led to 150 years of predudice against our black brothers and sisters. If we allowed for even a measly amount of dissent, people may have stood up against Brigham Young, listening to their own internal compass which was telling them, this is not right. HL Menken said "Morality is doing what's right regardless of what you are told. Obedience is doing what you are told regardless of what is right" If you think, we as a church writ large have operated above board on all issues, then you need to read some history. I'm actually not concerned about our historical flaws however, I view them as part of our bumpy, messy, unplotted faith journey, you know the one we all are taking, attempting to do the best we can and learning to be honest about it. I actual have a lot more hope when leaders stop attempting to sanitize everything and just share the genuine messy story, then my faith can be real and complete instead based on a carefully constructed but guarded narrative.

[@lilstuartbroh]

Bridger causes me to tear my hair out 😫😫😫

[@stephanielibbert1668]

She is often praised because their are more women in the church and she has a woman's perspective of relationship with God.

[@stephanielibbert1668]

Yes, the church of brotherly love.

[@cristithompson6448]

Such a terrestrial point of view

[@nancylowe2692]

Yes, you DO get to decide. God will never, ever take away our agency, BUT....oh the consequences! Broken families, loss of testimony, loss of eternal exaltation & on & on & on!

[@SaxSpy]

shes a terrible wolf. her whole role is to guide people out of the church. When given the choice, she never opts to guide people in.