Dr Kat and John Dee's Scientific Magic

The line between science and magic was a blurry one in early modern England. In this video, I am exploring this fact through the life and career of Elizabeth's magician, John Dee.
I hope you enjoy this video and find it interesting!
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Intro / Outro song: Silent Partner, "Greenery" [ • Greenery - Silent Part... ]
Images:
Portrait of John Dee from the 16th century. In the Ashmolean Museum.
Title page of John Foxe's Acts and Monuments, also known as Foxe's Book of Martyrs (1563).
Dr John Dee's magical mirror. Created: 14th-16th century © Trustees of the British Museum, British Museum.
“John Dee Performing an Experiment before Elizabeth I” (Henry Gillard Glindoni (1852-1913), Public Domain via Wikimedia Commons). In the Wellcome Collection.
A colouring of John Dee’s Hieroglyphicon Britanicon, from the frontispiece to “General and Rare Memorials, pertayning the Perfect Arte of Navigation” (written in 1577 - 1578).

[@flannerypedley840]

More on the Enochian language and speaking with Angels please.any of these supposed angel/demon things would be very interesting.

[@memyselfi8461]

Dr Kat: let me know if you'd like me to make a video on... All of us: YES!

[@Jeffhowardmeade]

Dee has evolved into this mystical nexus of the early modern era. It is said he may be Prospero and he may have made an appearance in The Faerie Queene. He may have sold the Voynich Manuscript to Rudolph II. He may have even created it himself. Whatever others now think of Dee, I strongly suspect that he thought of himself as a serious scientist, or rather a "natural philosopher" in the parlance of the day. Back then, there was so much nature left to uncover, that it would not occur to someone like Dee to view a book like, say, Daemonologie, any differently than an herball. Most of what we would today call science was, at that time, still occult. That is, hidden from view. By the way. Ooh! Ooh! Do the Voynich Manuscript! Do the Voynich Manuscript!

[@ReadingthePast]

I absolutely agree, Dee surely saw his pursuits as scientific attempts to understand his world and, where possible, better it!Regarding your suggestion about the Voynich Manuscript… that’s a really exciting idea! Thank you so much! As you know, it’s a fascinating but complex topic. I mean, seriously, what is it?!?! Do you think it’s a hoax? Or do you think it could be decoded to be something real and meaningful? Lots of planning needed to do this manuscript justice.

[@Jeffhowardmeade]

The fact that The Voynich shows no signs of corrections tends to rule it out as an original manuscript, in my mind. The age of the materials implies that it's at least not a modern forgery, as nobody in Voynich's era would know that we might someday be able to detect anachronistic materials. There aren't any hesitation marks, so it's probably not directly encoded. It's a very carefully done copy, made by a skilled scribe. That doesn't rule out a hoax, but it does make it less likely.

[@ReadingthePast]

I oscillate between it being a medieval hoax (or product of a deranged mind), as Eamon Duffy and (no doubt) others argue, and it being a legitimate coded text. But if it's not a hoax - as you persuasively argued (excellent points, by the way) - there must be a way to understand it. I'm not an expert on code making and breaking by any means, but surely all written codes must come with a key if they are meant to be read by someone? So, logically there must [have] be[en] one for the Voynich? Someone needs to find that!!!

[@samiam3297]

Finally the youtube algorithm gets it spot on! Totally random feed totally satisfied brain atoms. Such an astute and well researched talk. Well done doc...well done. Expect your other vids to be equally as good.

[@MichelleTheGinger]

I would love to see a video on that language you were talking about! I'm not even gonna try and spell it lol

[@willhouse]

When I finally made it to London & its stupefying array of storied collections in 2015, the British Museum was presenting an exhibit on the Enlightenment. One of the vitrines therein held a portion of John Dee's alchemical &/or spiritual equipment; a polished black mirror used for spirit communication was what I found most alluring amongst the arcanic pile. It was obviously just an artfully-cut slice of obsidian or granite (or I guess maybe jet?) but its still-shiny surface & well-worn case nevertheless held me quite rapt for a good few minutes. 💀🗣⚰🤓😮

[@weirdoboy1014]

I love the video! Plus the rubber ducks on the shelves!

[@Voronochka262]

Yes, another video about the Enochian language and these conversations would be interesting

[@Ru-wh8nu]

I'd love to see a video on the Enochean language. I'm a fan of the show Supernatural, and they talk about Enochean in the show.😊

[@Smiffy2462]

I love John Dee and went to see his angelic stuff at the British Museum recently. The Enochian language etc has always fascinated me. Thank you for your portrayal of Dee. He get a bad rep from some historians.

[@dougr.2398]

Dee was purported to have the largest private library in England, but what happened to it is unknown. Could it have contained a copy of Archimedes Codex A or C and have bedn Acquired by Isaac Newton, helping him to develop further GGF calculus that Archimedes already knew in 300 BC?

[@perrykroeger]

Good work Kat, more please on Dee and Enochian Magick!

[@user-mk3nu3hd4o]

Thank you for this amazing insight!

[@mandylavida]

Fascinating

[@bluebellthesecond8353]

Love your channel which I have recently discovered. Would you consider making a video about Nostradamus, such a fascinating person and similar to John Dee

[@Amc933]

I know it is fiction, but I loved the relationship Dee had with the Queen in "Elizabeth, the Golden Age". Impressive scenes.

[@Problembeing]

“There are more things in heaven and Earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy” - Bacon/Oxford TM

[@ognyena]

👌

[@henryjohnfacey8213]

Great subject great period in history. A world of plays of intellect of discovery. Thank you for such a fascinating subject. Amazing.

[@robynw6307]

Every time Dr Kat says "Edward Kelly" all I can think of is Ned Kelly, our lauded bushranger in Australia. Clearly not the same person, but I do wonder if he is a descendant. I would imagine it would've been a fairly common name though.

[@henryjohnfacey8213]

Thank you Dr Kat. Me, not being the sharpest tool in the box. Have been inspired, me. I have made a little library. I then find my ancestors come from where the Migrants families set off for the new world. Mayflower. Captain Cook and the Endeavour set sail for the far side of the world from the same place. A bonded slave in 1686 sent to Barbados, after "Sedgmoor" with our name. 1688 the bill of rights. Women on the HMS Goliath, Women and their families in Wellingtons army, and their lives. Thank you for your love of history and teaching me just to look and see how wealthy we all are.

[@adocentyn9028]

Excellent

[@rigavitch]

Loving these!

[@ReadingthePast]

Hiya! So glad you are liking the channel! xx

[@Dreymasmith]

Isaac Newton studied alchemy, it was an accepted part of science for a long time. Thanks for another great video.

[@jerryskeepero]

I love your rubber ducky’s!

[@frankrobinson8852]

Nonsense till someone finds some truth in it, then it becomes science, and the scientists continue to scoff at those who believed in it first. Great video - thank you. Informative but concise for someone like me 😊

[@divertissementmonas]

I'm impressed you are tackling such a difficult topic Dr Kat, so I have subscribed. I'd just like to mention that I don't think you are correct in seeing a blurry line between science and magic. It was religion and magic. There were no scientists until the late 19th century. You had natural philosophers prior to this date. John Dee was a magician or an occult philosopher. Some would call him a hermetic philosopher and there were many of these about during and prior to his time, including those belonging to the christian church.Have a look into the miracles associated with Thomas Aquinas. He died in the 13th century. Also scientists have always been concerned with the physical world. However John Dee, Newton and many more were interested in the spiritual world just like religion. I would recommend reading Frances Yates "The Occult Philosophy of the Elizabethan Age" and also Keith Thomas "Religion and the Decline of Magic". I was amused when you mentioned Dee's navigation book and you were viewing it as him going back to a more 'scientific' or mathematical outlook… It was a magical book. Read Yates and you'll see what I mean. You are right about Dee not wanting to be viewed as a conjuror this is because the church wanted to separate its miracles from magic. So it persecuted many men and women with this 'divine' knowledge.

[@ReadingthePast]

Thank you for your comment and for subscribing! You are spot on - the scientific method emerged much later than the period I am discussing here - however, for me the roots of that method are found in the realm of natural philosophy. I see the attempts to observe and explain the world as proto-scientific, then magic (and/or faith) enters in an attempt to control or influence the world. Thank you also for the book recommendations!

[@vladimirputin8628]

Book of dustan... missed kelly in the vid.. he was only one who helped jhon..

[@martywolf2011]

I thought Enochian was a invention of the tv show Supernatural 🤣

[@madelaineseguin1490]

Hi!!!

[@tribudeuno]

So Elizabeth I must have had a very open attitude in terms of her role as the head of the Church of England, in that she depended on the skills of John Dee. Dee being really the archetype from which comes Merlin...

[@dawnvickerstaff9148]

Enochian language please.

[@redheadrapunzel6088]

As a creationist I have studied at lengths and according to my research the magicks and the astronomy and astrology etc were given to humans by the nephilim. The half angel half human beings on the Earth in those days.

[@rossedmonds1828]

Nut case

[@frankavila1329]

Redhead, it was the fallen Angel's, the fathers of the nephilim that taught men the mysteries of the world. And how it is written "It would've been better to teach men my mystery" the mysteries of the Eternal Living King.