Dr Kat and The Winchester Geese

[@jeanglendinning1860]

Very interesting, it reminds me what an East end London friend told me many years ago that half the brothels in London belonged to the Catholic church and the other half to the Anglican church

[@sarahnewton2550]

I’ve lived in London for twenty years and every time I watch one of your videos I learn something I didn’t even know about... and I did history at degree! Loving Dr Kat!

[@auntkaz422]

The only immortal souls in danger were those of the Bishops....

[@nannasallynelson3990]

This is such a sad story. Yes, to bury these people in unconsecrated ground when they encouraged such behaviour in life is appalling. Thank goodness Jesus does not see people through human eyes

[@frightbat208]

Not surprised by the hypocrisy or corruption in Catholic Church, actually. This was very interesting. Thank you.

[@carmenpeters728]

Is it really that much different for women now? Men still think we are less human than they. I haven't met a man that wasn't out to take advantage, use and abuse...if not me then another woman. Don't let men off the hook that easily. Name names, put the blame where it belongs, not thrown onto the pile of vague ideas people have about 'churches'.

[@morriganwitch]

Was intrigued by the title and really feel sad about How tragic were the lives of these women xxx ;( I follow John Crow and his group and their respect for these women xxx

[@j.stonehouse5004]

I totally thought this would be about goose hunting! I really enjoyed the "twist". These videos are really great, and I enjoy them while I garden. Thank you very much Dr Kat.

[@desireestpaul6071]

So tragic. I think this is my favorite of all of your stories, Dr. Kat.

[@purplepeopleeater6880]

I love your fierce passion for the women who came before us xx

[@glorialange6446]

Just saw this one. It was so sad and so true and I had wondered many times about how clergy reconciled their beliefs and their greed, knowing it was impossible to trully justify. Nice work on this one, Dr. Kat.

[@hdwarrior8830]

Not knowing what you meant by "Geese" I was sort of expecting something happy. This makes my heart hurt so much. The so called Holy men have no clue on the condition of their souls when they died, perhaps they'd made their peace with Jesus, which you don't need the church for. Having worked as a first responder I have sadly seen many people die. Knowing that in the end some of the nastiest people talked to and accepted Jesus at the end was a gift to me, which is why I always asked if they knew Jesus. Many times the response was something along the lines of "I thought I did, but now I really understand" or "No, please tell me about Him". I hope I did what I could to lead them Home. I know I didn't save them, I just pointed them in the right direction and let God do the rest. These "Holy" men cared nothing for souls, just money. They could very easily have afforded to care for these women properly. Just heartbreaking.

[@kimberlyperrotis8962]

Thanks to the people of this neighborhood who honour the memory of the unfortunates buried there.

[@Slinkynuts]

This story makes me angry and ashamed. Did many of these these sex workers etc. have much choice ? Thank your for doing this story and for your passion.

[@momcat2223]

Oh, those poor women. Thank you so much for shining a light on the treachery they endured. People I love dearly are papists. By mutual agreement, religion is not a topic for discussion. (edit: Discovered your channel recently & binge watching in quarantine. When I closed this one & looked at the thumbnail, I had to laugh at that side-eye. Brava!)

[@christopherseton-smith7404]

Deserves a greater listenership/views Knew about the liberty involving the theatre, but had never really thought through the consequences of oversight of the Stews; passed that by without a second glance. So very remiss.

[@cfryklof]

Didn’t know about this! More like this please 😊

[@crussell2017]

Love the story, as sad as it is. During our first visit to your beautiful city a year and a half ago, we stayed in the Bermondsey area. Before we traveled I looked up a little bit of history and it was quite fascinating. I thought it would be quite interesting if you could every once in a while do a piece on different parts of your very historic city. Once we can travel, we look forward to visit again.

[@katharper655]

I refer any who are interested to the series "HISTORY COLD CASE" starring Professor Sue Black, and her superb forensic team. (I can SAY their names...not so good at spelling) The episode "Crossbones Girl" had me, first in tears THEN ENRAGED. It focuses on the earthly remains of a HORRIFICALLY YOUNG woman who was obviously in the category of the Winchester's Geese. Through intensively painstaking historical research and in-depth forensic analysis, they describe this poor girl's life. AS A HISTORY BUFF, I STRONGLY RECOMMEND IT. AS A WOMAN AND FEMINIST I HOPE YOU WILL WATCH IT. If as a human being with a heart, religious leanings notwithstanding, you can watch this programme and not be enraged and disgusted by these so-called "Holy Men"'s treatment of women who were in need... Well...I leave it to your judgement. *BUT I HAVE MADE MINE*

[@redalcock4704]

Fascinating. I had heard of the Winchester Geese but didn't know if the cemetery. Thanks for this

[@foxenandfamily5060]

The poor dears. And I expect the first ones to judge were often the first ones in line when business was open. What a double standard. Thank you for this really interesting and sensitive video. As an American I had not heard of the Winchester Geese before and I rather hoped it was going to be about some fun, boisterous group of Morris dancers or something.

[@barbaramccann7439]

I was very interested in this video have a very nice day

[@shaitarn1869]

I heard somewhere the story that they were nicknamed 'geese' because at one point these poor women wore a 'uniform' of white dresses or aprons and yellow hats, so men desiring their services could pick them out. But I can't remember where I heard that and it may be an urban myth.

[@arbicuswoo]

Another enlightening video. Thank you for elucidating lesser known history in your videos.

[@juditharbeit219]

I enjoy your range of topics. Always fascinating. Thank you for providing these moments of history. It’s been very enriching for me. I’ve read further on different aspects of history after listening to your presentations.

[@belindabelton4627]

Our tour of The Globe mentioned the Winchester Geese used to ply their trade there and were known as 'geese' as they used to flap white handkerchiefs to attract customers.

[@kassistwisted]

Unfortunately it's not amazing or surprising to me that the Church decided to deny poor people the Kingdom of Heaven simply because they were poor. It makes an atheist like me wish there was a God so he could punish people for ignoring Jesus' teachings. The profiteering of the Bishop of Winchester is just another story of a rich guy exploiting the little people for his own financial gains and being protected by a high-placed relative. Oh, how little the world has changed.

[@caitlinallen8400]

I believe in God, and trust me, He will see to it that these evil men are punished for their misdeeds. The Bible says that "to whom much is given, much is required." That means these men who completely knew better, as part of the church, and STILL chose to take advantage of the poor and needy and destitute women, instead of helping them...these men will be punished worse in hell for their sins. God does not take such hypocritical evil and greed lightly.

[@patriciaramsey9454]

Very sad, but also fascinating.

[@Aptosis666]

Dante called the higher ranking churchmen, such as the bishop of Winchester, who used the church to enrich themselves, Simoniacs. Henry VIII and Thomas Cromwell, the latter of whom was derided for his role in the closing of abbey's, began to put a stop to such abuses as this was not the only hypocrisy perpetrated by the Roman Catholic Church. If Cromwell had been aware of it, he must have looked at this and been astounded. Hilary Mantel criticizes various cons perpetrated by the Catholic church. She probably did not mention the 'geese' because Cromwell did not have much involvement in the stopping of this practice. Other people working for Henry probably had to deal with this. Henry initiated this so he could marry Anne. Also the profits could have been diverted to Henry's pocket. Cromwell has been accused of taking money from the church to line his own pockets. He did line Henry's. It did however, give someone the chance to investigate things such as the 'geese', question why this should continue and, if Henry agreed, put a stop to the practice. It was a terrible time in history for both critics and supporters of Rome. One good thing that did come of this was that people who could read the translated bible began to question purgatory and why someone needed to be paid to say prayers for a dead person's soul.

[@heatherjones6647]

Not much has changed across the world. Women disadvantaged and oppressed by society and thereby beaten down to its lowest level only to be further abused, disgarded, forgotten while the hypocrites who keep these systems in place persist comfortably among the powerful classes. We're 50%. We must break this cycle.

[@cyndiea.stevens9004]

At the risk of sounding like a jerk, how dare they and just figures. I have many devout Catholic friends who do all they are supposed to do. It just seems that the officials of many churches and religions think they are immune to their own rules. This was an interesting topic. I would enjoy learning more about the 'underbelly" of Medieval and Early Modern society.

[@truthseeker1954]

👍😊

[@brontewcat]

It would be nice if the Anglican or Catholic Church would consecrate the ground now.

[@lynnedelacy2841]

The Clink , the Globe as topics? Greenwich Palace?

[@joannshupe9333]

As an American who is used to "most" people belonging to a church (but less and less as time goes by), I've had a difficult time understanding the British attitude towards established religion. Being open about things like this makes it a lot easier to understand, especially since no one is forced, through fines, to attend services anymore. Unfortunate, but understandable.

[@lucyosborne9239]

This, and many other problems, cruelties, degradations of humanity, hypocrisies and greed, is why I left Christianity behind me at aged 15. I remember being in Episcopalian Sunday school, and asking many questions. I challenged the teacher on the question of transmutation and therefore seeming cannibalism of the rite (the eating and drinking of human flesh and blood), of all the magical acts performed by various saints and prophets, as well as the reasoning behind the Catholic dogma adopted by the Episcopalian religion. My mother took me aside, somewhere in about third grade, and ordered me to stop asking so many questions. To me, this was as much inexplicable as the teachings of Christianity with which I was confronted on a weekly basis. Is not religion exactly the place to ask questions and explore the Bible for answers? To my eight-year-old mind, this was as two-faced and ridiculous as the fact that my parents were welcomed in church at all. They were the precise definition of sinners to the most egregious degree. Wealth had corrupted both of them, body and soul, and I won't go into the details. Suffice it to say, what was going on in church had no resemblance to what was going on at home. When I entered boarding school at 13, I began to read all the books my mother had refused me, and discovered that there were many other ways of thinking than Christianity demanded. I started meditating in Buddhist practice and very quickly found why my parents were dead set against my finding some kind of enlightenment. It was simple: knowledge, real knowledge of right and wrong, that exposed them for who they were, depraved, corrupted, abusive and massively hypocritical. That's what's wrong with the Roman Catholic Church.

[@CZPanthyr]

I'm late finding this video, so my apologies. However, to me, it sounds like the Bishops of Winchester were pimps.

[@larissap6586]

❤️🇨🇦

[@roxanabumb7189]

I loved it❤❤❤

[@ReadingthePast]

Thank you!

[@otterlover3399]

When women tell me "oh durr, sex work is like so totally empowering" all I have to do is show them this video. If even holy religious men can't find sympathy in their hearts for prostitutes, what makes you think society as a whole will ever, ever be able to? No, they will always be regarded as an underclass, so all we can do is try to limit their number by making sure women have real empowering opportunities. In my opinion, anyway.

[@madmonkee6757]

*which they inhabited The verb "inhabited" does not take a preposition. (The "in" is already inside the word, after all.)

[@jacmaria]

The Catholic Church and indulgences, isn't it ironic

[@megremisfamily4music]

P

[@tilseptember]

I had to come to the comments to be sure I understood these “liberties” correctly. Good Lord! Clearly the clergy had nothing to do with religion as it was effectively a parallel nobility for spares. I do wonder if that helped the church maintain power for so long - not faith but the same power that maintained feudalism…

[@kimberlyperrotis8962]

I don’t believe any patch of land can be consecrated by such corrupt men. When dies irae comes, God will remember them, all right, but not for their “holy” homilies and lace aprons.

[@R08Tam]

To quote Christopher Hitchens: "religion poisons everything"

[@sheilatruax6172]

Catholic i may be, but there is so much hypocrisy in this subject, I am sure these bishops are still cooling their heels in Purgatory, if not elsewhere. And I don't mean heaven.

[@--enyo--]

Nice to see hypocrisy and exploitation has a long history. 😒

[@kathleenem9207]

It goes way back.I’m afraid it’s the shady side of the human condition and a byproduct of power.

[@joanblack6672]

So these Bishops are hypocritical pimps?

[@chateaumojo]

Feudalism sucked.

[@bethmeadows2828]

None of this surprises me at all.

[@janellinger4492]

Such an appalling attitude and actions by these priests