Baltic Naval War 1919 - Fire & Ice (but mostly ice, lots of ice)

Today, we look at a relatively little known naval conflict, hidden in the shadows of WW1, the 1919 Baltic campaign is today's subject, with a special guest appearance at the end!
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[@Drachinifel]

Pinned post for Q&A :)

[@chriselliott4199]

Could you please make a video on HMS Barham. Thanks

[@gustav331]

In the fall of 1916, the German general staff began drawing up plans for an invasion of Denmark. The navy was especially keen on such an operation, and ultimately, the only reason it didn't happen was that the Army didn't want to send troops away from the main fronts. A naval attack on Copenhagen was seen as impossible. Instead Prince Heinrich, as commander of the German Baltic Sea Squadron, came up with a brilliant plan to sail Germany's two biggest battleships - those of the Bayern Class - into the Bay of Køge (!) and threaten Copenhagen with a naval bombardment if Denmark didn't surrender. There were coastal fortifications and batteries around the bay. How much of a bloodbath would this have been for those poor sods onboard the SMS Bayern and SMS Baden? And generally speaking, what chance would dreadnought-era ships stand against coastal forts and batteries?

[@kobra51]

How were torpedo launchers on destroyers and cruisers aimed? Did they have some kind of fire control directors? Were all tubes launched at the same time or were they ripple fired?

[@kingswagii1607]

Two questions: Who would win in an OPEN gun fight, the Iowa or Yamato, and why? My father and I can’t seem to agree on this, only that the Iowa always wins at night or in storms. Also, was there ever an instance in history where ships of the same navy engaged in battle due to a civil war?

[@85stuff69]

Thoughts on the adacis class carriers of the Royal Navy

[@MrCCFCforLife]

"Re-distribute the means of propulsion" is an absolutely god tier Drachism

[@bigblue6917]

Of course it would have been a simple job. Couple of days tops. Is it just me or do you get the feeling that the person behind the plan had no idea what was involved.

[@aftp4i94]

Got to admit I got a chuckle out of it.

[@mysss29]

came to the comments early to find this and express appreciation

[@lexington476]

Someone needs to put these on a chart somewhere to keep track of all of them 😎.

[@cogidubnus1953]

No, it was in fact Wolverhampton Wanderers F.C. who beat Leicester City F.C. 3-1....

[@josynaemikohler6572]

At Doogerbank: "Torpedoboats everywhere! They will kill us all!!!!" 14 years later: Torpedo boat literally stops in shouting distance, repairs stuff, and sinks a russian ship.

[@Bird_Dog00]

@Josy Naemi Köhler "Comrade Captain, there is a torpedo boat!" "A torpedo boat, comrade seaman? That joke was allready old even before the Kamchatka was sunk." "But comrade Captain, look!" "That's enough, comrade. There were no torpedo boats back then, and there are none today." "But, comra...""Shut up!" The Kamchatka cried wolf one time too many...

[@HMSConqueror]

*japanese torpedo boats

[@glennricafrente58]

A+ comment

[@christopherconard2831]

And they say pausing the game is unrealistic because no one would ever actually let you stop and perform repairs.

[@talamioros]

Where's the Kamchatka when you need it

[@X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X]

Shooting down a fighter aircraft from a baloon with a pistol - somebody deserved his medal!

[@bigblue6917]

Actually not the first nor last time. An American pilot shot down a Japanese pilot during WW2 while he, the American pilot, was floating down to earth in his parachute. This was the same Japanese pilot who had had shot him down and was intent on finishing the job. The Japanese pilot flew up next to the US pilot and was hanging in midair so he could take a look at the man he was about to kill. The US pilot pulled out his pistol and fired at the Japanese pilot and killed him. When taken prisoner the US pilot was given the opportunity to take his own life by his captors because they had a good idea what would happen to the pilot but turned it down. As it turned out he did survive being a POW and went back to the US. So I see your balloon and raise you a parachute.

[@X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X]

@@bigblue6917 I didn't know the story in such detail - thank you!

[@RCAvhstape]

@@bigblue6917 Also in the Vietnam War there is a documented case of a guy (technically an Air America civilian, aka CIA, I think) who shot down a NVA An-2 biplane from the door of a Huey helicopter using an AK-47 rifle.

[@bigblue6917]

@@RCAvhstape Thanks for that. Air America worked with the CIA but was not part of the CIA. Lots of people assume that they were part of the CIA, myself included, but the were civilian contractors. Interestingly their aircraft belonged to the USAF.

[@RCAvhstape]

@@bigblue6917 The incident I mentioned, if you search it up, is actually documented on the CIA's website, and it names the pilot and the guy with the rifle.

[@maxkennedy8075]

There are no friendly mines, only mines you know the location of

[@T3hderk87]

Unless.... they are drifting mines from the previous year

[@robertf3479]

@@T3hderk87 In which case they are not 'friendly.' We nearly met some 'drifters' in the Persian Gulf off Iraq in 1990 and 91 during Desert Shield / Storm. I believe the 'unfriendly' mine that USS Samuel B Roberts 'swept' in 1988 was a 'drifter' also though Iranian rather than Iraqi.

[@robertf3479]

Just as there are no 'friendly' torpedoes, only those that are either unlaunched or are running.

[@Vespuchian]

Mine - "Hello, new friend!"

[@babomb2146]

Robert F even unlaunched torpedos shouldn’t be considered friendly, just look at some of the ships carrying the long lances

[@mbryson2899]

My better half and I were recently discussing who would make for a good GPS guide voice. Uncle Drach was in our agreed upon top three.

[@mbryson2899]

Hearing him make fun of me for a missed turn would be Drachism GOLD!

[@mbryson2899]

"Because of course he did."

[@tomupchurch4911]

The voice would sell the GPS.

[@ferrumcaedum9782]

I need this now.

[@Just_som_Ottur]

M. Brysch “I told him to turn right 10 minutes ahead, why he decided not to listen is beyond me.”

[@Raptorrat]

"Cassandra ran into a mine" They should have seen that one comming, but would have ignored it anyway.

[@bigblue6917]

My thoughts exactly.

[@halfcantan1208]

Red dwarfers ??

[@tancar2004]

@@halfcantan1208 It's actually from Greek mythology. The character of Cassandra is blessed with the ability to see the future but cursed in that nobody will believe her. It's a trope and yea the Red Dwarf episode is based on it.

[@halfcantan1208]

Skyrous thank you I've learned something new today cheers mate

[@halfcantan1208]

Skyrous does your name have some sort of similar intresting backstory

[@TheGreatWar]

We need more boats named after cocktails

[@misterthegeoff9767]

Does the Kirov class cruiser Molotov count?

[@joebobhenrybob2000]

@niels lund I bet some russians drank them anyway.

[@glennricafrente58]

USS Manhattan, Spanish galleon (Santa) Margarita, HMS Blenheim, HMS Alexander, USS Brooklyn, USS Fitzgerald, USS Long Island (Iced Tea) ...

[@kumaflamewar6524]

Does the kamchatka count?

[@23draft7]

Cheers ☺️

[@bificommander7472]

16:40 Well, as they say, every ship can serve as a minesweeper at least once.

[@richardtaylor1652]

Any ship can be a minesweeper if you run into enough things.

[@larsrons7937]

"...24.000 German volunteers who had shown up to fight, well, somebody, and as it turned out, almost anybody." ROFLMAO Drach, how come you continue to find such funny little details? You not only make us more enlightened, you also keep us amused.

[@bificommander7472]

Heh, I did immediately think "Well, that's a first." when Drach mentioned the request to become a British Protectorate was denied.

[@nicholasavasthi9879]

That was roughly my response. I thought the British always liked expanding their empire.

[@alecblunden8615]

Two examples - New Guinea and Hawaii. It depended on the political party in power.

[@kieranh2005]

And also what the terms would be

[@jimmiller5600]

@@kieranh2005 Brits said "no" to Malta after WW2 (financial and strategic reasons).

[@KPen3750]

The spartak follows the great Russian traditional phrase starting at the journey of the 2nd pacific squadron, “and then it got worse.”

[@trekaddict]

"Distribute the means of propulsion" had me in capitalist stitches.

[@murderouskitten2577]

10:25 thats a VERY precise describtion of situation in Latvia - everyone was fighting everyone .

[@fabianzimmermann5495]

One cruiser ramms a block ship, another cruiser hits a mine and sinks and two destroyers ram into each other at the start of the operation. These ships are either related or the British counterpart to the Russian second pacific squadron.

[@bigblue6917]

I think it was a cunning plan to confuse the Russian.

[@fabianzimmermann5495]

@@bigblue6917 Lol Of course, that could have been a possibility.

[@Bird_Dog00]

Yea, I did get some "subtle" second pacific squadron vibes there as well...

[@ygma1460]

Average low tier battle start in World of Warships. Only thing missing was someone firing torpedoes at a friendly.

[@Bird_Dog00]

@Wraithweave There are neither mines nor block ships in WoWs... Also, as a WoWs newbie myself, I have you know sir, that only 2 in 3 low tier battles starts with team damage occuring before the first enemy is spoted...

[@mrbigshoworelse]

"Redistribute the means of propulsion" is some of the best word play I've ever heard. Bravo.

[@fabianzimmermann5495]

This is surely one of the most interesting and unknown naval conflicts, that I've ever heard of.

[@aftp4i94]

I studied modern history in high school and university and the net teaching for this whole period was 'during the Russian civil war the western powers did some stuff. Hey kids! Look! It's the roaring twenties!...'

[@lkrnpk]

Well even in Latvia we don't know much about what happened ''up north'' with the Estonians, Soviets and Kronstadt. I guess Latvian part of the conflict, when it comes to naval part, really was as uneventful as they write in our history books ''some French and British ships helped to save our Independence by shelling Germans (or White Russians, whoever the Bermont-Avalov force thought they were) in November 1919''

[@petman515]

@@lkrnpk Reminds me of how us history books all leave out how the assassin who killed the kaiser starting ww1 was a member of the black hand.

[@glennricafrente58]

@@petman515 I think you mean the archduke (Ferdinand).

[@petman515]

@@glennricafrente58 Yes my mistake thank you.

[@Foureye15]

Note on Helsinki/Helsingfors: The different names are (mostly) a question of Finnish and Swedish instead of new and old. Helsinki is still called Helsingfors in Swedish, including about 5% of the citys population.

[@TooLateForIeago]

"Uncharacteristic refusal of expanding the British Empire..."

[@jessy2kjames]

"Do you see torpedo boats" "Ho God not aga........ ooo torpedo boat!!!!"

[@ezragoldberg3132]

Pesky Torpedo boats with Teleportation devices!

[@ricksturdevant2901]

I enjoy your stories --- your slight accent, your voice cadence, how you pronounce words, during each video. WHEN you change the voice cadence and ever so slightly change word pronunciations, when you want to make a point in the story is golden !!! The HUMOR you weave into the stories 🤣 when making a point always gives me a chuckle. I suspect any topic you choose you could make interesting, no matter how boring it might be. I listen closely at every video listening for that humor you weave in an out of every story.

[@euansmith3699]

The Erebus looks such a monster. I found it interesting how shortages of materials, repair installations and the need to strip off crews to fight on the land could all take vessels out of action.

[@sebastienhardinger4149]

Incredibly fascinating video I love how important as mundane of a ship as icebreakers became. It and minelayers/sweepers tend to be the most forgotten military ships, as they don't shoot guns like the cool kids, but they can have as much or even greater importance than battleships on the success of operations

[@bkjeong4302]

Well, battleships were usually the least important naval warships for most naval engagements, so...

[@JH-lo9ut]

If you ever visit Stockholm, make sure to take a look at the steam Powered icebreaker ”St Erik” , wich is a museum ship in working condition. (S)he is moored outside the very famous ”Wasa”museum. While not a military ship per se, St.Erik is an icebreaker from this era, in original configuration inside and out. At the same pier you’ll find another working piece of history, namely”Sprängaren”, tender (and minesweeper) to the ”Sverige”-class battleships seen early in this video.

[@Bird_Dog00]

Funny how an account on actual military operations can sound a lot like slapstick comedy. Especialy when the account talks about a destroyer actually runing out of fuel during an engagement (I mean, wtf).

[@aftp4i94]

War is just an extension of the human condition, including the bit where it's so bloody stupid you have no choice but to laugh.

[@josynaemikohler6572]

Well, doesn't sound as terrible as turning your gun 180 degree, and forgetting, that you aim on your bridge. :P

[@sergeychmelev5270]

Not too funny, if you remember the situation in Russia at the time. The country was torn by civil war and interventions by multiple countries (Germany, Britain, Japan, USA, etc). There was a great shortage of everything - from fuel to trained crews. The fact that destroyers were able to get out of the base is a miracle of its own.

[@Feiora]

@@josynaemikohler6572 Perhaps the gun crew was secretly supporting the opposing side, or maybe someone on the bridge pissed them off?

[@Feiora]

Not suprising really, if you think about, EVERYTHING was in short supply for the russians on both side of their civil war, and sometimes you still have to sortie even though you're critically short on things like ammo, provisions, fuel and manpower... Factor in that theres nearly no chance of ever getting those supplies or even if you do get them that theres a pecking order and you're not gonna be at the top of the list unless you are the ONLY ship there...

[@sarjim4381]

There's a reason why the ship's owner's manual's always says don't fire forward gun astern no matter how tempting the target .:-)

[@misterthegeoff9767]

I'm sure there was a drydock Q&A question at some point about whether any vessel had managed to hit itself with its own primary armament, and now we have the answer.

[@kyleheins]

Yes, apparently ships can commit suicide by gun quite easily...

[@isilder]

You would think the turret mechanism would have stoppers at the limit .. there may have been the assumption. That if it can rotate that far,its safe to fire ...

[@sarjim4381]

Almost all turrets do have safety stops built into the rotation mechanism. Free swinging guns like 20 mm Oerlikons usually have safety rails above the gun tub to prevent the gun from shooting into the ship. The problem is that, like anything mechanical, the stops can fail, and safety rails often get shopt away by splinters during battle. It's the job of the mount captain to prevent the gun going where it's not supposed to, but the heat of battle sometimes interferes with that as well.

[@T3hderk87]

Never before has one cute sea mine ever found more friends than in the north sea. RIP, they all were enveloped in the massive sweet embrace of love and overpressure only a lonely mine can endow.

[@SynchroScore]

The repudiation of Imperial Russia's debts had an interesting effect in one of my areas of interest, railroading. Russia had placed a huge order with US and Canadian locomotive builders for a class of over 3000 2-10-0 locomotives that quickly were named "Russian Decapods". After the revolution, some 200 were still in the US awaiting delivery. As the US had temporarily nationalized the railroads for the war effort, these engines were distributed around and railroads found them very useful; they had a light axle loading to be easy on the track, but still had enough tractive effort and moderate speed for most freight service. One of them is still in steam at a museum right near me, and I've ridden behind her many times. The smokebox still has two Builder's plates, one in English, the other in Russian.

[@WandererRTF]

Few comments - the Royal Navy was granted the use of Koivisto (now Beryozovye Islands) in the Finnish territorial waters as an anchorage for their operations against the Red Baltic Fleet by the new Finnish government. Also as far as what i have understood the aircraft the Vindictive operated from mostly from an airstrip constructed on the shore of the anchorage rather than from the carrier itself. The British also requested the Finns to support and cover their base of operations and the Finnish Navy provided what little it had in order to do so (torpedo boats, motor minesweepers). This help ended up costing the Finnish Navy 3 old (captured from Russians) torpedo boats (build 1902, 150 ton, 19 ktn, 2 x 47 mm guns, 2 x 38 cm tubes) which could not make the return voyage home but were instead crushed by the ice and sunk - as their departure was delayed until the Royal Navy had finally chosen to leave. That was a loss of 30% of all the torpedo boats the Finns had at the time.

[@Feiora]

Why didn't they just go knick some more russian ships? there were plenty to choice from all makes and models! XD

[@WandererRTF]

@@Feiora Not really. Those were pretty much all the ships that the Russians had left in Finnish ports which the Germans had not nicked (they did take several themselves) when they 'helped' out. So all the early Finnish ships were either captured directly from the Russians or then handed down to Finns by Germans. Perhaps the one common theme with most of them was that they were the ships that even the Russians were not desperate enough to sail on during the Baltic Ice Cruise. So in general they were not in good shape or good sailing ships. Add to this Finns actually had to return several of the ships they had captured as part of the Tarto peace treaty of 1920 (3 x torpedoboats, several motor minesweepers) - but in return got to keep the strong coastal artillery Russians had build. So while the Finns did have quite a shopping lists (you should see the Finnish Navy's 'wishlists' of 1920s) there wasn't that much available for free and much of what did was in terrible state or alternatively already once sunk (like the British destroyers) - and therefore what there was had more value as metal scrap than as warships.

[@Feiora]

@@WandererRTF Or, just wait for everything to freeze over then go seize a russian port! ^.^ Finns love nicking russian stuff, why not a whole port? ^.^ (Sure you have to wait for it to thaw to get the ships out but you could take everything else not nailed down while the russians are fighting each other!)

[@changcheng7364]

@@Feiora There was a civil war in FInland too.

[@Feiora]

@@changcheng7364 Makes it easier to nick things then you can pin it on the other side! ^.^

[@maxschaeffner9005]

"Poltava managed to catch fire while moored at shipyard" Admiral Kuznetzov: write that down WRITE THAT DOWN!

[@santiago5388]

"There seems to be something wrong with the upload schedule today" random subscriber seen a especial on Friday On a side note, thanks for the video, the naval campaing in the baltic is something I have been interrested for a while, and I'm happy to see you cover it.

[@kevinm3586]

One of the torpedo boats CMB 4, with a small display about the Victoria Cross action it was used in, is at IWM Duxford. It's at the back of one of the aircraft hangers so easily missed.

[@user-tp1bi6of3v]

One intersting book I came across was "Operation Kronstadt" involving the British spy, Paul Lukes, that literally drove the soviets crazy in trying to find also involving the Coastal torpedo boats mentioned in this excellent and very entertaining presentation. There was no 007 around then as that fiction was still in the future.

[@shannonrhoads7099]

22:25 Friendly mines? This would have been a great place to insert the happy mine who is friends to all. They are very accomodating mines, after all, and don't discriminate.

[@xgraver]

Sweet finally you talking stuff about my country and history. Estonia. WAs funny to hear you try to say Estonian names but not that bad :D

[@aftp4i94]

As an Aussie I have a near reflex liking for any underdog country and Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania certainly qualify. Your countries went through hell several times at the hands of the Russians and the Germans but here you stand today proud and free. Much respect, mate. Oh, if you think he mangled Estonian names, just wait until he tries some of our Aboriginal names we give some of our ships...

[@xgraver]

That's the thing thous are very easy names so you can't mess them up that much. Maybe im just to happy to hear stuff about my country. Thank for the kind freedom words. :D

[@infiltr80r]

It's odd, today the sea in these areas looks so peaceful and there's little to no human activity. Seabed is littered with carcasses though, the level of sea warfare the area has seen is something else.

[@donalddemo]

The British sarcasm is epic! Drach is walking talking Encyclopedia of all things related to naval war history

[@missingnola3823]

Redistribute the means of propulsion... love it!

[@markdavis2475]

Greetings from a Brit in Tallinn! CMB 4 Still exists, she is in IWM Duxford, looking great last time I went there! Also, the Seaplane museum in Tallinn is a great visit, the Ice Breaker Suur Toll is there along with the WW2 Submarine Lembit and a replica of the Seaplane.

[@TheNandomadrid88]

It is evident that the Great War ended in 1918, however this did not mean peace for Europe: Russian revolution, communists uprisings in Germany, the civil war in Finland, the comunist revolution in Poland (backed up by Red Russia...).... etc. It was one of the least pacific ends of a war i have ever studied, and it was later succeeded by the rise of fascism in Italy, nazism in Germany, civil war in Spain and, ultimately WW2. Crazy times from a Europe that feels so close in time, yet so different in idiosyncrasy, politics and social values. It is a fascinating transformation.

[@Kenadian2006]

Drach posts a WW1 special about the Baltic wars? Neat. The Great War does it too? Conspiracy.

[@simonwaldock9689]

I wonder, is the destroyer Spartak the spiritual descendant of the Kamchatka?

[@harrisonmortley1137]

SEIZE THE MEANS OF PROPULSION COMRADES!!! OOH-RAH!!!!

[@Weesel71]

Great video. Actions like this are grist for grinding out scenarios for wargaming. You don't need a grand fleet action to have fun, and this sort of thing provides multiple premises for ding-dong actions which are lots of fun and which provide inspiration: minelaying in progress, go mess it up; troops need mobile artillery, provide it before the other side messes things up by providing the same for their troops; Oh! a meeting engagement for short support forces! etc.

[@wojciechzielinski5989]

Nice story. It is something new for me. Thank you for covering Baltic war story.

[@niclasjohansson4333]

A most interesting naval conflict i have never even heard about !?

[@clawrence034]

You should do an episode on the Kronstadt garrison

[@willus567]

Seems a bit mental how the Royal navy with all those left over dreadnaughts didn't even send one

[@jukkakopol7355]

Finnish navy lost it's hole c-class torpedoboat flotilla due to ice because british naval officers force them to stay too long in Koivisto island to guard russians northern flank. That's greatest lost of ships of finnish navy before gunship Ilmarinen -41 during operation Nordwind.

[@williestyle35]

The Finns be out there just taking Russian ice breakers. Good stuff Drachinifel.

[@MrAwsomenoob]

Imperial russia: falls. Successor states: SNATCH AND RUN Y'ALL!!!

[@lordray1284]

I figured there had to be something involving the The Great War channel considering I'm subscribed to both and both video came out at the same time.

[@ShiftyBandit214]

That's just a stereotype.

[@joakimwohlfeil]

Drachinifel, you made it again !!! Your ability to put both ships or actions in context (both technical, tactical or political) makes your videos soooo interesting. Also thinks this video is in many way´s explaining the problem for naval battle operations with larger ships in the Baltic with the combination of shallow waters, minefields and ice in the winter. Hence the rational for CDS-units being able to deliver heavy gunfire but still manouverable outside the deep water lanes, ice breaking and with sufficient amour to protect from standars cruiser gunnery. A very very small remark, just as you mention the Swedish expedition force in the Åland-conflict was lead by the new HMS Sverige (that was still in shakedown status at the time), however the CDS (costal defence ship) in the picture in the beginning of your movie is the older HswMS Oscar II (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSwMS_Oscar_II)

[@seanmccann8368]

Excellent, thank you.

[@Ruby-nb8hn]

This is great info and really well presented Thank you!!

[@JH-lo9ut]

At about 1:30 you can see the icebreaker "Sankt Erik", built in 1914. She is still in working order as a museum ship (although boilers converted to oil burning). Usually seen docked att the pier outside the Vasa museum in Stockholm. This is a must-visit of you are in to steam power.

[@wardaddyindustries4348]

I'm so happy your finally getting into the fold of the other big history channels, and sponsors your videos are top notch.

[@stevekirk8546]

Utterly fascinating - all new to me. Thank you.

[@nickush7512]

Highly entertaining commentary :) love it... thanks.

[@williamharvey8895]

Yay, Drach and the Great War channel teamed up, two of my favorites

[@admiraltiberius1989]

Fantastic video as always Drach......I love it. Btw did you hear the RV Petrel may have located some of the wrecks of the Battle of Samar, its amazing to hear that. And they are pretty deep so hopefully no one can salvage them.

[@mopacslim]

Keep up the good work. I really like the longer videos. Thanks for all you do. I hope you get some earnings off these videos for all the hard work you do, you definitely deserve it.

[@chrisbritt4266]

Another good video thanks a bunch very interesting and I will definitely be checking out the Great War video as I'm also a fan follower of that channel as well I highly recommend the great war channel for anyone that hasn't been following them

[@davidbrennan660]

Tasty subject.....looking forward to it... .

[@peregrinemccauley7819]

Battle of the Sundra Straight . . ... I hope this channel covers this valiant last stand . ..

[@molybdaen11]

Interesting, I have never heard of this sea battles before.

[@torpaninternational8351]

Very impressive campaign

[@barrylucas3830]

Wow! What a weird war

[@neurofiedyamato8763]

"with a special guest appearance at the end!" Why did I already instantly predict it would be the Great War.

[@joearnold6881]

4:28 I find myself fascinated by the little pink dot of Red control all by itself in the lakes region. (with the white arrow of White forces pointing at it, just East of that J-city that has more umlauts than I’ve ever seen in it) Like, who were they? What is their story? I often have these thoughts when I see things like these on maps.

[@williammagoffin9324]

Look up the Battle of Varkaus. It's actually very sad.

[@kallekonttinen1738]

Yeah, battle of Varkaus. Varkaus and neighbouring Leppävirta had large factories where there was large left wing leaning population. They joined to battle on red side while other rural municipalities around them were right wing leaning. So those reds were separated from main red forces by 200 km. They were surrounded and after breef battle surrended. What came after is famous episode. At Huruslahti Bay (it was winter so it was frozen) all surrendered reds were gathered there and one man from ten was shot thru lottery. My grandfather was there.

[@joearnold6881]

William Magoffin thank you both !

[@Physwe]

@Travis Tucker Because their enemies are murderers :)

[@jimtalbott9535]

Reguarding 25:00 - I'd love to see a collaboration between you and Jessie on the Greco-Turkish war!

[@Kalevi86]

I would want to point out Helsingfors is still the Swedish language name of Helsinki and Helsinki was even before the independence the Finnish language name of Helsinki and as the official languages of Finland were in the grand duchy of Finland Finnish and Swedish as they are in independent Finland nothing changed in this aspect with independence...

[@jarmokankaanpaa6528]

The Finnish form "Helsinki" is known from official documents at least by 1819 (when the capitol moved there from Turku (Sw. Åbo) and was one of the two official names of the city at least since then. Tallinn was also known to speakers of Estonian as Tallinn long before independence; the name is a shortening of "Taani linn" (Danish castle or Danish town) as the Danes conquered it in 1219. The name "Reval" (like "Dorpat" for Tartu) is the German name for the city; Denmark sold Tallinn to the Teutonic Order as part of the Duchy of Estonia in 1346. From then on, most of the Estonian nobility was actually German, whence the German names for many localities also in the other Baltic States, Latvia and Lituania.

[@matthewnewton8812]

Hmmm. If I lend you a few commas, periods and semicolons do you think you could deploy them in such a way as to render this comment intelligible?

[@TheSchultinator]

@@matthewnewton8812 Do we have the budget for that many punctuation marks?

[@matthewnewton8812]

TheSchultinator We are dangerously low, particularly on brackets and semicolons, it’s true. But a brave B2 crew has just completed a run of resupplying the Czech Republic with desperately needed cases of vowels, so we are hoping for the promised return shipment of punctuation in exchange to arrive back here shortly. I think we’ll be ok. Besides, he so very desperately needs them! Shall I give the go ahead, Lieutenant?

[@TheSchultinator]

@@matthewnewton8812 Yes, proceed at once!

[@ericamborsky3230]

It's strangely fitting that Oleg, of all ships, was one of the ships sunk in the baltic sea by a torpedo boat.

[@kuradisiim]

Btw in august 1919. Estonian government made a secret offer to the UK. Namely the whole island of Naissaare ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naissaar) as a permanent naval base in Baltic sea for the Royal Navy. Like Baltic Gibraltar :)

[@Typhyr]

They refused the offer of getting a protectorate, it already had a flag.

[@joebobhenrybob2000]

They would not have made such mistakes with Eddie Izzard advising them on diplomacy

[@joebobhenrybob2000]

Do you have a flag? kzbin.info/www/bejne/lWq6Yq2Ketp-grs

[@isilder]

The reason they could not put uk protectorate status onto Estonia was that Estonia was effectively in civil war ... No one knows how to end a civil war..... Back then they avoided siding in on a civil war , wisdom that went misding at vietnam , Afghanistan,Iraq ...

[@isilder]

The uk also didnt want to offend white russia .. who they were helping ... I guess they were nominally white russian still . The uk were there to help white russia not take over from it

[@Typhyr]

@@isilder what I said was ment as a joke. But nevertheless, thank you for the insight you brought.

[@Taurevanime]

I was listening to this while doing some work and I heard the name HMS Curacao. As a native of Curacao that certainly got my attention. I wonder why the Royal Navy would have a ship named after an island colony that isn't owned by them.

[@Emdiggydog]

Avoid mines is my takeaway

[@davepratt9909]

Shouldn't the title be "Baltic Naval War 1919 - Fire & Ice (but mostly mines, lots of mines)"?

[@matthewjones5731]

Always look forward to the next Drach video

[@bkjeong4302]

How did this major naval campaign not get much attention? Also; this is the second funniest naval fuckup after the Second Pacific Squadron.

[@lkrnpk]

Cause it just falls under general ''Whites vs Reds, Russian Civil War'' and almost nobody in the West has looked in a detailed way on that conflict.

[@christopherconard2831]

I think all involved filed this under "We don't talk about this."

[@tonyk8592]

@@lkrnpk I've a feeling we may all be living this classic (left vs right) conflict in real time in the not to distant future, if the current trend doesnt change

[@johnd2058]

FACT: the wildly self-destructive maneuver battles in __Mad Max__ were inspired by this campaign. The director's uncle was aboard three different ships, each of which ran into something or other.

[@christopherconard2831]

I'm sure stuff like this and the IJN Traiho is covered in officer training schools. It comes under "Why you make your men drill, drill again, and again, and again...."

[@iwantcrawfish6110]

The GreatWar channel also did there Baltic war episode today as well.

[@harrymurphey2634]

Could you do a 5 Minute Guide on the "Foundation Franklin" ... origonally the sea going Admiralty tug "HMS Frisky" ... (I believe). Have you read Farley Mowat's book ??? A fantastic read ...

[@GenghisVern]

the subtle humor keeps it interesting

[@GenghisVern]

11:12 "...redistribute the means of propulsion"

[@kevinm3751]

Sounds like a horrible time to be a sailor for any Navy! Would be interesting to know how many of these mines are still out there, where they might be and what potential they have to do harm?

[@Feiora]

most mines are dealt with but there are actual mines still out there slowly rusting away and are more of a danger to subs nowadays than surface vessels anymore... Also, another thing the only mines that are left are the ones that are so deep they cant be cleared without using RoVs to locate and deal with. All in all though, those mines just liike the ordinance on lost ships are very much active and if you go diving and come across one or more, if you survive, please report it to the local authorities or to the nearest naval office so that someone can hopefully be dispatched to dispose of it.

[@kevinm3751]

@@Feiora Being a diver and spelunker the idea of coming across any of this ordinance scares the hell out of me. Spent a lot of hours diving off the coast of Guam and the wrecks there and there was ammo and all sorts of things, but nothing like coming across a mine!

[@Feiora]

@@kevinm3751 Luckily, as with most metal objects in the sea, the mines will have rusted and have been breached, settling to the bottom, usually deeper than divers can go, and technically as a diver, you're more likely to be killed by disturbing the ammunition in the wrecks than you are to be killed by mines... Also most of the heavy duty minefields are/were in the european theater, not so heavily in the pacific, though there still could be mines deposited by subs out there under some remote section of the sea. Incidentally, as a diver, you would have to come into contact with the contact points to set off the mine so in a way its safer than swimming inside wreks where ammunition could be dangling overhead and depending on your dive gear, a set of bubbles might provide the slightest nudge for the warhead to slip and fall and go BOOM!... (tbh I think more than a column of bubbles would be needed to knock loose a torpedo or shell or bomb, but whatever, people die in wrecks like the ones you visited in Guam, so just mentioning it...)

[@ezragoldberg3132]

Last year, they found 2 WW2 Mines that the Germans placed in Polish Waters. One was on a mudbank in an inlet to a river and was detonated safely. So yeah, they show up from time to time :P

[@jenswinslow1702]

Several Danish fishing boats and fishermen were killed by mines caught in the nets for many years after the wars. Enough that you have rememberance monuments with names in many small villages; the one where my dad grew up had a mine replica. I remember climbing on it as my dad told me how the lead horns had acid flasks, end when hit and broken the acid would set of the mine. Not heard of any accidents in last 50 years so one can hope anything left has rusted to scrap.

[@robertmoore6149]

Love the cross pollenization between this channel and The Great War channel. Glad to see like minded people build each other up, vs try to tear each other down. Everyone wins. 😀

[@sven-erikviira1872]

I think icebreaker "Suur Tõll" was in this episode and that ship can still be seen in Estonian Maritime museum.

[@grevberg]

That looks very much like the icebreaker St Erik built in 1915 which I worked on in 1968 in Stockholm archipelago the last cold winter ever.

[@GaldirEonai]

22:20 : There's no such thing as a friendly mine :P.

[@christopherconard2831]

Whenever he mentions mines I think *Bloop Bloop Here comes someone. I wonder if they want to be friends.*

[@T3hderk87]

Ooh, they are very friendly, they love intimate contact and cuddling.

[@Feiora]

@@T3hderk87 So they are french?

[@T3hderk87]

@@Feiora I guess, if the only kiss they give is the kiss of death lol

[@kellymoulton3792]

My biggest problem with ALL MINES, is that they are always addressed: TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN!

[@roykliffen9674]

9:15 Raskolnikov??? Like in "Crime and Punishment" by Dostoyevsky? You've got to be kidding.

[@lkrnpk]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fyodor_Raskolnikov Just a surname in Russia, not the most popular, but not unusual either

[@brianswanson3188]

Take a look at the USS Laffey if you haven’t already, fascinating story.

[@pathutchison9866]

I don’t know if you’ve done a video on the Warspite. I can’t find it if you did. If not, I think the story of the Grand Ole Lady would make for an excellent episode and review.

[@jimbomayo69]

Many moons ago I met an old boy who was serving in the Baltic in 1918/1919 seeing a Soviet aircraft overhead he and his shipmates ran and manned the single AA gun and by a lucky shot bought it down. They were all then put on a charge for opening fire before being ordered to.

[@Cbabilon675]

Greetings and salutations from the US. If you are interested, please let me know how I can get in touch with you on many different places to eat and stop so that you'll have a good and comfortable Journey here when you come. Thanks for the great videos as usual.

[@madrabbit9007]

Thanks for this. I never even heard of this conflict. I thought everything was sunshine and rainbows until Hitler came along.

[@JonathanWJ]

Great Depression???

[@allancarey2604]

*smiles* If Vandetta & Voyager were the same that went on to be in the Scrap Iron flotilla, they did have an interesting careers :)

[@onthatrockhewillbuildhisch1510]

Sold to Australia, HMAS Vendetta and HMAS Voyager were key pplayers in the scrap-iron flotilla in the 1940-41 Mediterranean campaigns.

[@Esau420]

Does anybody else feel like @Drachinifel should be the narrator on a Tex Ship Post

[@vmvrantanen]

There were no "communists" in Finnish civil war. The social democratic movement had not divided into social democrats and communists yet in Finland. The Finnish Social Democratic Party (SDP) was kautskyist in nature, not communist - the Finnish Communist Party (SKP) was created after the war. later in 1918, in Soviet Russia by former social democrats. There were some bolsheviki inclined individuals (mostly Petrograd Finns, like Adolf Taimi and the Rahja brothers trio) fighting on the "red" side (within the kautskyist SDP), but they had very little separate influence on the movement (they had about the same influence or less than the revisionist bernsteinian wing of the party). The kautskyist stance was pretty much the following: since the democratic development was pretty much stifled by the bourgeois parties since July 1917, it was ok to pursue the further emancipation through armed means. The more radical kautskyists (like Edvard Valpas) did not try to make co-operation with the more democratically minded bourgeois (the "jacobin wing" of the Young Finns represented byt the likes of Heikki Ritavuori, or left wing of the Agrarian Union represented by the likes of semi-tolstoyan Santeri Alkio), but even they did not have their revolutionary strategy based on "making socialism through armed insurrection" - the kautskyist stance was, that socialism would be achieved through elections, although it WOULD be ok to defend the democratic achievements and resist the dissolution of democratic system (as was interpreted to be happening in Finland at the time by many in the SDP [for example the support of the bourgeoisie for the dissolution of parliament by Kerenski when the radical "law of power" - giving all power previously held by the Russian czar to the Finnish parliament - was passed with flying colours by the SDP in the Finnish parliament in July 1917]) by the bourgeoisie with arms. They had no intention, however, to bring about socialism straight away, but to reaffirm parliamentary system in a more democratic form (with radical direct democracy elements, such that are at place in Switzerland; and also with a clausule, that the people would have a lawful right to stand in arms against any infringement against parliamentary system), and pass socialism through that system (this was also in a way realistic, since the SDP was clearly the biggest party, had alone won the majority already before - it was the strongest existing socialist party in existentence at that time). It is true that the Red Guards - the militia - was more radical and willing to pursue a military solution against the bourgeoisie, but they also were mostly kautskyist in nature (eventhough they had small bolshevik or anarchist elements in them). Internationally speaking the Finnish social democrats belonged to the "Zimmerwald international" (made defunct by the declaration of the third international, that is the Comintern), which remained against the Great War, whilst the majority of the second international had taken a nationalist war-mongering stance. They were very close to the likes of Julius Martov of the more democratically/radically inclined wing of the Menshevik faction in Russia (rather than Bolshevik), or the alignments of the likes of Kurt Eisner in Germany, or Otto Bauer in Austria.

[@vmvrantanen]

Also, speaking of the actions by the White Finns in the case of Estonia as "Finland/Finns did this and this" is a bit anachronistic, and we should talk about "the Finnish White movement", since it should also be seen in the context of Russian civil war (due to influence of czarist general Mannerheim), and the government was in the aftermath of the civil war in Finland (and the political system had not yet been chosen and stabilized). Otherwise a good video.

[@JonathanLundkvist]

The Sverige Class Coastal Battleship, paid for after a collection was made amongst Swedish Citizens. One of the few nations to truly earn to be named for its nation.

[@mickcoomer9714]

Sounds a bit like the Second Pacific Squadron having a practice, on both sides.

[@morgan3688]

Friendly mines are not very friendly

[@erikgranqvist3680]

Cudos for getting Sverige better then most!

[@samhod3086]

Spartak: Exists Spartak's Guns: I'm about to end this man's whole career