HMS Tiger (1945) - Guide 219

The Tiger class, last gun-based cruisers of the Royal Navy, are today's subject.
Read more about the ships here:
www.amazon.co.uk/British-Cruisers-World-Wars-After/dp/1848320787
www.amazon.co.uk/Tiger-Lion-Blake-1942-1986-Cruisers/dp/1901225038
www.amazon.co.uk/Rebuilding-Royal-Navy-Warship-Design/dp/1848321503
Naval photos and more - www.drachinifel.co.uk
Model ships of many periods - store.warlordga...?aff=21
Want to support the channel? - / drachinifel
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Want to talk about ships? / discord
Want to get some books? www.amazon.co.uk/shop/drachinifel
Next on the list:
USS Maine (BB-10)
Gulio Cesare
German Auxiliary Cruiser Atlantis
USS Astoria
Project 24 Sovetsky Soyuz class Battleship
Caio Duilio class ironclads
Garibaldi class
Pisa class
HMS Inflexible (1876)
German S-90
HMVS Cerberus,
USS Minneapolis, CA-36
USS Long Beach
SMS Lutzow
HMS Sovereign of the Seas
SS Great Eastern
Pinguin
PT Boats
Z Class
Cleveland class
SM U-156
Boston class
Des Moines Heavy cruisers.
Hydra Class Ironclads
Audacious class CV's
Malta class
Hunt class
Tennessee-class cruiser
The Merrimack and Mersey class of frigates
Henri IV
USS Marblehead
HMS Caroline
Ships of Battle of Campeche

[@Drachinifel]

Pinned post for Q&A :)

[@hrvojetasner5173]

What if the germans managed (by some unnamed miracle) to capture the whole french fleet? How would that influence the war, especially the Mediterranean theater? Would the italians get some of french ships in this scenario?

[@winstonviceroy6125]

Please discuss how navy ships in general, deal with their sewage. Especially in WWII. It's a subject area that is never brought up other than "sinking" some portions of refuse so as not to identify a ship. Did trash, sewage, waste, go directly in to the sea? Was it accumulated and then dumped? Etc.

[@michielehrismann3768]

Did the Germans actually put the captured port of Narvik to use? Couldn’t the allies intercept any ships or convoys from Narvik back to Germany?

[@schullerandreas556]

Would this "last cruiser gun duel" even bode well for the british navy? Autoloading 6inch guns are a sight to behold but I dont think the Tigers would fare well against the Belgrano. The Belgrano , a Brooklyn Class had 15 barrels and twice the belt armor. I think that if engaged even by 2 Tigers, the Tigers would end up at the bottom. Which would be a major blow to the reputation of the british navy if such a minor assailant as argentina sunk 1-2 british cruisers in a gun duel. What are your thoughts on Belgrano vs Tiger. No airforce, no submarines just a straight surface action.

[@Delerio100]

Could you explain a little about ship-borne radar and its evolution. more specifically how this affect the ability to detect other vessels. How much did different navys rely on radar for spotting during World War II and up to the cold war and how was the float plane affected. Thanks Best regards Billy :)

[@watcherzero5256]

For those questioning why Blake? Blake was the head of the Royal Navy during the Commonwealth and responsible for increasing the size of the fleet tenfold as well as transitioning it from a force that only put to sea during the fair weather months to a force that put to sea all year round. He also invented the Single Line of Battle formation.

[@brianspendelow840]

There was also a shortage of big cat names available. Leopard, Jaguar, Lynx and Puma were being used by frigates of the Leopard class.

[@Acquireboy]

Not poet William Blake? Tyger Tyger, burning bright, In the forests of the night; What immortal hand or eye, Could frame thy fearful symmetry?....

[@Alpha4943]

@@brianspendelow840 Could have used Cougar and put some of the older unmarried Wrens aboard

[@johnlavery3433]

Panther

[@MonkeyJedi99]

Lion and Tiger and Blake, oh my!

[@zee7056]

HMS Tiger: Rawr! HMS Lion: Rawr! HMS Blake: Oy!

[@Angrymuscles]

Profound.

[@sugarnads]

I'll get youuuuu beattiiiiieeeeeee

[@Dave_Sisson]

When Drach began reciting the ships names, Lion... Tiger... I was guessing which other big cat the third ship would be, perhaps Leopard? or Jaguar? or Puma? ... then he said Blake of all things. I realized just how inconsistent and unpredictable Royal Navy ship naming actually is.

[@sfs2040]

🎵 One of these things is not like the other! 🎵

[@alexandermonro6768]

Tiger, Tiger, Burning Bright?

[@davidbirt8486]

I love the look of this class as gun cruisers.The hangar and flight deck spoiled their looks in many peoples views,they also caused a lot of structural issues.Not for nothing was Blakes nickname,"The Snakey Blakey", I am lucky to have seen all three of this class,although I never served on any of them. As a boy living on the St Beaudaux naval estate you could look down at the dockyard.Lion was laid up along side the depot ships Adamant and Tyne, then part of Devonport fleet maintenance base which was known as HMS Orion in those days. The Tiger was laid up in Fareham creek, Portsmouth for several years,but I remember her in the dockyard,( Portsmouth ), just before the Falklands war with the Bullwark. I was in Nelson barracks as part of the barrack guard when Blake paid off,and saw her along side at the time,although she went to Chatham to be laid up.Sorry if I've bored you with my ramblings, but these ships bring back fond memories.

[@Slaktrax]

Handsome looking cruisers (before the aft deck conversion).

[@neilwilson5785]

I was sold for scrap in 1982. Still here on the Internet tho, lol

[@zopEnglandzip]

Yes very handsome. Fine lines and a chiseled superstructure similar to Vanguard

[@77thTrombone]

Drach gets perilously close to modern naval coverage with this video!

[@Big_E_Soul_Fragment]

"last gun-based cruisers" Missiles may be better but gun-armed ships always look cooler to me

[@MayDayMei98]

Missiles look cooler when fired, but I feel like guns are cooler to look at in general. Plus, normal guns can do naval salutes with blank rounds.

[@stephen5656]

Are you suggesting the floating block of flats USS Long Beach doesn't look cool? What an outrageous assertion I say.

[@shononoyeetus8866]

Who doesnt think guns look cooler? They’re a bigger power move than a little box with some rockets in

[@orzorzelski1142]

I like both. And I want them in my AL fleet, as well as sirens. I guess I'll just buy ~1600 dock spaces...

[@bagustesa]

lets wait big railguns become common place

[@Jake-xe4cv]

I served on Blake in 1975. 'Snakey Blakey' as she was known, had an odd steering tendency after the refit to put the hanger on. Hence the nickname. The rush to get missile armed ships ignored the tremendous advances in the gunnery world. Throughout their service these ships actually carried the most potent AA in the fleet allbeit much reduced from the original config. They were designed to put up a barrage of 800 shells per minute- accurately. They had issues on Tiger, which had hydraulic turrets, but Blake had all electric [I still have a 3" shell casing by my back door] systems and did not have the jamming issues. When under test the 3" guns out performed any missile system in service except the Sea Dart which had a longer range anyway. But medium and short range, all altitudes the test bed ships reported near 100% hits within the first few rounds with 3". I have no data for the sixers in that regard. Whereas the seacats, if they launched, usually managed a few spirals then a plop into the sea. So jumping for missiles over guns was not based on effectiveness, just status. Had she made it to the Falklands as I did, the issue of low flying Argentine aircraft would have been short lived, they would have stayed well away from her or have had much shorter missions.

[@MZzz-cg4rt]

Great story. Nice to learn.

[@rupertboleyn3885]

Until the USN's Aegis system came into service SAM missile systems were very vulnerable to saturation, whereas gun-armed ships could service targets much faster and were much less likely to have their weapons saturated. It took a surprising length of time for the effective reach of SAMs to be more than that of heavy AA guns too. As you say, SAM missiles were more about status for quite some time.

[@nickbrough8335]

As I watched the video, I surmised that the SeaCat's system would have been inferior to the two 3 inch gun turrets removed.

[@BarrettL1970]

So with the very limited number of aa...it was actually good...? That point is beyond fascinating to me.

[@Jake-xe4cv]

@@BarrettL1970 She was designed to throw a radar directed barrage of up to 800 heavy rounds per minute. During the trials they never used up their allocated ammo.

[@Zajuts149]

I would love to see an overview of the Fairmile MGB/MTBs

[@ottovonbismarck2443]

Seconded ! And while the boss is at it, he can as well do the Vosper, BPB and Thornycroft MTBs/MGBs and of course my favourites, the German S-Boote (is there a better looking and performing thing ? of course not ...). Don't we forget the Italian MAS and I've heard the Americans also did one or two PTs (some fancy gun and rocket additions on these, as one might expect ...). I also have a soft spot for certain Russian boats - the cute little Tupolev G-5 comes to my mind.

[@jimtaylor294]

Motion thirded. The duel between one of the ML's and a German Destroyer ("torpedo boat" Jaguar) is legendary. The Germans were somewhat stunned by how much resistance one little boat could give, as their deminuative opponent only surrendered after being boarded, running out of ammunition, and several prior offers to surrender.

[@SeraphoftheRoundTable]

Would like to see the mosquito fleets get covered more. MTB's of all nations would be great. I would like to see a vid on USN and IJN subchasers.

[@jerry2357]

I’ve always had a soft spot for these cruisers since I made the Airfix model of HMS Tiger, probably nearer 50 years ago than 40.

[@MrHws5mp]

The Airfix one (1/600th scale, pre-conversion) is rare as hen's teeth and goes for collectors' money these days. However Revell bought the moulds for the Matchbox one (1/700th scale, post-conversion) and have put it out at regular intervals, so it's very available. I've got three in the stash...;-) I believe there was also a FROG one in 1/500th scale(?) but good luck finding one of those...

[@99IronDuke]

@@MrHws5mp I made the Airfix HMS Tiger (alongside HMS Victorious and HMS Leander) when I was a boy.

[@comeslittorissaxonici7395]

@@MrHws5mp If you are up for it, there's the MT Models 1/700 Tiger / Lion and Blake / Tiger configurations - and someone (can't remember who) does 3D print stuff to back-convert the Matchbox etc version to all-gun. Cost you plenty, though. ps For some reason not vouchsafed to the humble modeller, the Frog (later Novo) Tiger was 1/415 so didn't fit with 1/500 Torquay and Undine.

[@martincurran-gray2287]

@@99IronDuke I did HMS Leander too!

[@benjaminarnold2881]

This channel has grown so much it seems like there are more non-guides going out than guides! Its a good sign of diversification!

[@JohnThomas-gy6lq]

Coffee and warships!

[@andrewstallings6548]

Tequila and boats!

[@species3167]

Sounds like the Breakfast of Champions to me!

[@thomas316]

Put a splash of rum in that coffee sailor.

[@MetalRodent]

Now I know 'I wish [X] had been saved' always comes up, but those 6" turrets do look awesome, a shame one wasn't parked somewhere for preservation.

[@Paveway-chan]

They would have looked **sick** as secondary battery guns on some 1950s British supercruiser design. I can imagine a diminutive of the Vanguard class battleships, with something like 9'' or 10'' main battery and two of those 6'' turrets on each side

[@richardm3023]

Enough! Why do we have to "preserve" every damned ship ever built? Take a picture, it'll last longer...literally.

[@davidjames4915]

@@richardm3023 Did you miss the part where he was talking about saving one of the 6" turrets, not the entire ship?

[@ying20000818]

*sees WoWs dev blog* Drach: Aight, better make a video about that class

[@FirstDagger]

And yet uses War Thunder ingame screenshots ;) at the three minute mark

[@tonywilson6032]

“In theory” sorry to correct you but we took 4 Seaking helicopters of 820 nas on Blake - relieving the 4 Wessex of 820 nas (very confusing) and regularly sat on the flight deck as the plant pots up front tried to blow themselves up - hence their nickname “the main ornaments”

[@johntripp5159]

I served in the RCN; we used the English Electric 3"70 turrets; 120 rounds per barrel per minute and zillions of moving parts eh. So we didn't get off too many bursts before something went wrong. Roll along wavy navy roll along. The ship I was in lasted until the eighties; a Restigouche class DDE, HMCS Gatineau. Ready Aye Ready.

[@razorburn645]

Interesting. It's a shame we won't see any new RCN ships for another decade. Maybe by then we'll have the rail guns sorted out.

[@frederickmiles327]

Had the 3/70 been done as a single it might have been much more successful.but by the early 1950s redesigning the 3/70 and 4.5 Mk 6 as lighter less complex single barrell.mounta was seen far too expensive although.many RN staff and designers favoured the simplification.

[@michaelpfister1283]

It always amazes me how many of the late WWII and just post-WWII ships lasted into the 80's before being broken up. Thanks for the great run-down on a worthy ship!

[@frederickmiles327]

It was unfortunate they did as the large number of incomplete or barely used cruisers, destroyers and aircraft carriers laid up in reserve at the end of WW2 meant the political pressure to rebuild those hulls in the USA/UK in the mid and late 1950s was often overwhelming, where the long terms interests of the USN/NATO for modern sustainable warships with decent living should have meant the end of legacy reconstructions by 1955. In other words instead of completing Ark Royal, Hermes and Victorious reconstruction two new 35,00O ton carriers should have been built in 1956-1963 and the Tiger class should have been scrapped when they were suspended in.1944. Three new 7OOO ton RN cruisers with 4 twin 5/54 manual semi auto S fitted to De Grasse, Midway and Roosevelt would have been sensible.

[@johndent8813]

I seem to recall having an Airfix kit of Tiger then I was young, many many years ago....

[@Alpha4943]

Me too

[@veryorignalname4804]

Same

[@tedthesailor172]

Same here...

[@johnappleby405]

Didn’t Harold Wilson and Ian Smith hold talks on HMS Tiger in the sixties? Looks like the kit was deservedly popular. Very handsome ship.

[@tedthesailor172]

@@johnappleby405 Yes. They ruined the lines with that helipad & hangar...

[@ianmcsherry5254]

I went aboard Tiger as a young lad, with my parents, when she visited Leith docks in the 70s, probably 1975. Impressive ship. It's my recollection that there would be no doubt that the hangar could take four helicopters, as they had a Sea King inside when I was aboard, and I think that you could have easily fitted another three in.

[@comeslittorissaxonici7395]

The story goes that the original plan called for a smaller hangar for 4 Wessex HAS-3 "camels" and retaining all 3 3" mounts, but when they decided to use Sea Kings the guns had to be sacrificed and the seacats were shoved in as makeweights.

[@bullettube9863]

Has anyone ever noticed that Navies tend to always be in a "transitional phase"? The Tiger class is a transition between the all gun cruiser and the missile cruiser with one gun of today. In the American navy, we now have a class of destroyers as big as light cruisers, and frigates as big as WW2 destroyers. I'm eagerly awaiting the modern equivalent of the battle cruiser Dreadnought!

[@tams805]

I think the future is going to be more towards multi-role drone carriers (both air and sea).

[@frederickmiles327]

The Tiger class were always out of time. Too late to supplement the battlefleet or hunt raiders. In a sense they are like those 3, 1917 oddities Courageous, Glorious and Furious the last Fisher battlecruisers with the same flaw as the Tigers, only two main gun turrets and therefore unable to reliably engage surface targets at all angles. If one target is jammed or damaged only one target can be engaged. The Tiger/ Minotaur series of cruisers were originally ordered in 1940-42 as a large class of cruisers with, two 63ft beam prototypes Swiftsure and Minotaur (HMCS Ottawa) of the 1940 programme, followed by 8 Tigers cruisers which were ordered in the RN 1941-2 estimates and as usual the main turrets, secondary armament and power train for this large follow on class to the Town's and Colony class were very much under construction by 1942. HMS Superb, Tiger, Lion (ex Defence), Hawke, Blake, Bellerophon, Centurion and Mars . However once America entered the war the need for RN cruisers was less and the Tiger based very closely on the design of HMS Fiji ordered in 1936/7 did not seem really suitable to pursue and check the threat of large fast German, Italian, Japanese and Russian cruisers. Essentially on 8000 ton light displacement the Fiji and Improved Colony class carried the same massive armament of four triple enclosed Mk 23 6 inch turrets each turret with 6 feed chains or pusher lifts to conveys shells and cartridge charges to each turrets. Essentially an improved Colony say Newfoundland or Ceylon carried the same armament as the Kreigsmarine Seydlitz and Lutzow would have carried on 17,000 ton light displacement if they had been completed as intended as 6 inch gun cruisers.Instead of course Hitler demanded they be completed first as 8 inch gun cruisers and then gave Lutzow to the Russians and stopped Seydlitz 95 percent complete and fully armed in 1941 rather than risk the loss of more middle class officers at sea. MI6 always maintained Adolf's stupidity was enormously useful to the Allied cause. But if Lutzow and Seydlitz were in the Norwegian fjords with Scharnhorst and Triputz would a new Tiger still massively overgunned with 3 twun Mk23 triple 6 inch turrets weighing well over 1000 tons with the turret system above and below the deck a useful answer.No. So two Tigers were cancelled in 1943 and two more it seems in Feb/March 1944.The four shaft 80,000shp power trains under construction for HMS Bellerophon and HMS Centurion, were actually split into 4 power trains of 40,000 shp fitted to the first 4 Light Fleet carriers And it appears that HMS Hawke the Tiger laid down in7/43 may have been also broken up and recycled the same way and like HMS Bellerophon reordered and restarted as a 14,000 ton Neptune class in 6/44 and 2/45 certainly the main and secondary armament for 3 Neptune class cruisers Mk24 electric DC triple 6 inch, DC MK 6 twin 4.5s etc were very much building.And it appears HMS Hawke was scrapped on the slip and a Tiger in 1944 and as a Neptune in 1947.

[@Welshman2008]

I had an Airfix model of this ship and HMS Daring.

[@MarcStjames-rq1dm]

The Breakers!!! Why the Breakers!!!? Breaks my heart.....Every time!

[@boosterh1113]

Because metal can be melted down and re-used and a country only needs a handful of museum ships.

[@davidthefirst6195]

A lack of AA guns came back to bite the RN badly in the Falkland Conflict

[@kemarisite]

Which is an important point for the hypothetical gun duel with Belgrano. What do you emphasize when you load ammunition in the UK, AP for antiship use or HE for antiaircraft work? Given the armor on a Brooklyn class cruiser, HE may be better there too, at least you can wreck the upperworks.

[@davidthefirst6195]

@@kemarisite my point about lack of AA weapons was in the 20mm to 40mm range as the RN went for mostly missile defence against aircraft A surface engagement with the RN and Belgrano was never going to happen as the Belgrano would never have been allowed to get that close as history shows

[@alanmcclenaghan7548]

@@davidthefirst6195 Admiral Nimitz: "Hold those planes, boys. In 75 years Drach will want to make a KZbin video of our fast battleships taking on the Yamato. Wouldn't want to let him down." If only admirals fought battles with Drach videos of gun duels in mind rather that sending in the planes and subs to do the job!

[@farmerned6]

I think it was more the deficiency of the SeaDart tied Type 965 radar to track low level targets The newer HMS Exeter had Type 1022, and was able to take out 2 Low flying Skyhawks

[@Jake-xe4cv]

@@kemarisite They carried an even split for the 6 sixers. Everyone turned-to for ammunition loading, I was teamed with another guy for moving the 3" shells onto the circular disc at the rear of the turret. They went down and were either placed in the magazine or loaded into the barbette rotary stores. they arrived in big crates like pop.The three inch were nearly a metre long and the sixers were about a metre and a half I think. She was never going to go toe to toe with a cruiser mounting 15 6" guns now was she? Even back in the day they were meant to be AA cruisers. However, that single turret could pump out 40 rounds a minute, radar directed and corrected. The 3" 180 per min. Was wonderful seeing and hearing them firing. I used to stand on the signal deck above the bridge to watch.

[@RayyMusik]

Town class: “Ha, we finally spotted you because you were shooting at us! Eat these 12-gun broadsides!” Tiger class: “Ha, thanks to our extensive radar suite we spotted you before you were even built! Eat these ... well ... 2-gun ... um ... broadsides!”

[@LiftOffLife]

After completing my basic training at HMS Ganges and HMS Sultan the converted HMS Tiger was my first draft as a stoker working in the boiler room and engine rooms. Boy was that hard hot work 🥴 I still have fond memories of her today.

[@StephSancia]

Dang it looks SOOOO much better here BEFORE the hangar refit !! I joined Tiger C20 towards the end of the 6 year refit in 1972 and spent 2 years on her with 826 squadron and the box hangar. I MUCH prefer this image GOODNESS GRACIOUS love love LOVE this design ❤

[@ThatZenoGuy]

The Tiger Class, AKA, "The Sky Sweeper Of Warthunder". That god damned cruiser makes a 5km+ 'zone of no planes' around itself. Its awesome.

[@fasthracing]

I was lucky enough to have a wander around HMS Tiger in I think 1976 (?) when a friend of mine's was the Commander of the ship.

[@peterflitcroft9756]

Remember seeing one of these ships when on a school geography trip to the south coast in the early 70's. I took a picture on my trusty instamatic camera of it framed by the arch of Durdle Door.

[@steves5172]

I spent some of my apprenticeship in Devonport working on the Tiger in the A and B boiler rooms. I distinctly remember the trip out to Lion to scavenge for spares and how tight the clearance between the boiler fronts was in B boiler room (and hot!). I have always thought Tiger looked top heavy and ungainly after the hangar was completed, very fine ships otherwise.

[@demportboy1584]

Steve S. I also worked on these vessel's in Devonport, but unable to remember exactly which one, also not able to recall actual job I did, but was with Johny Dixons team of fitters. I started in the yard in 1962 and left in 1969, it was good work, and excellent training/apprenticeship.

[@steves5172]

@@demportboy1584 Hi! Great to hear from you! I joined the ‘yard when you left (unfortunately)! The vessel we both worked on would be Tiger as Lion was moored in the river and Blake was based in Portsmouth. Regards, keep safe! Steve S.

[@demportboy1584]

@@steves5172 I guess you are right regarding Tiger, however I used to go up the "trot" to the vessels in reserve to rob bits and pieces as well. I have lived in the land of OZ since leaving the yard, best move ever, trust me. Take care. Bill.

[@janwitts2688]

The actual reason they stopped reactivating them was that some ministry chap had sold off all the 6 inch ammo to a foreign power... Otherwise they would have served at least a few years more whilst other units were completed

[@johnlavery3433]

Argentina by any chance?

[@paulpeterson4216]

Just what I would expect from Sir Humphrey

[@kemarisite]

@@johnlavery3433 not the same gun and shell.

[@robertf3479]

@@kemarisite True. General Belgrano (ex USS Phoenix) was armed with 15 USN 6"/47 cal guns firing a 130 lb AP round, not at all compatible with the RN's QF 6-inch Gun Mark N5 firing a 129.75 lb AP round. Close, but not close enough for government work. In a straight up gun fight, I think Belgrano would have swamped either Tiger or Blake (or even both together?) through shear volume of fire on target (15 barrels vs 2 or 4) even if the autoloading British guns were able to avoid malfunction.

[@comeslittorissaxonici7395]

As far as the Falkands campaign was concerned, they would have needed nearly 2000 crew between them, which werent avilable. Part of the rationale for considering them was their flight decks were Harrier-capable so could improve CAP time on task over San Carlos Water. The extreme unreliability of the 6" guns would have made any attempt to take on Belgrano (save as a last-ditch defence) unwise in the extreme, the two Counties, using a combination of Exocet and Seaslug, might have had a better chance. After that point, only Tiger (or Liger as she was dubbed because there was so much of Lion in her) was considered a potential going concern aiui.

[@ollieahokas9179]

Igers were the ships that got me in to war ships as a kid as an Airfix kit was the first ship kit I built as a kit.

[@abritishguy7295]

my grandad served on HMS Tiger after the helicopter conversion, i still have the photo that he got for serving on the ship, along with HMS Gurkha and HMS Brinton (HMS banana boat)

[@bigdmac33]

I'm amazed at how narrow C34's stern is, for such a large( ish ) ship.

[@daddiospatio]

Thank you, Drachinifel and I hope everyone is doing well. The latter day conversion brings thoughts of the Japanese ships that were converted to carry aircraft in WWII.

[@tomdegisi]

So good for this Kansan to learn about General at Sea Robert Blake. Thanks, Drach and others!

[@X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X]

I recall an HMS Tiger in an old onlinegame called "NavyField", it was two large turrets mounted on a nutshell. Such a shame it was a fantasy ship!

[@reigels]

The thought of Tiger and Lion shooting it out with ARA General Belgrano... Oh how you tease us, Drach!

[@Kevin_Kennelly]

It's time to play 'One of these things is not like the others'. Tiger Lion Blake Play along and win a prize.

[@RedXlV]

Tiger is the odd name out. Because tigers have never been native to Europe.

[@WALTERBROADDUS]

Since the RN does not use People name much, who was Blake?

[@nobodynotme4840]

@@WALTERBROADDUS Maybe he trained Tigers and Lions.

[@RedXlV]

@@WALTERBROADDUS Blake was one of Britain's greatest admirals. Whenever a Royal Navy ship is named after a person, the vast majority of the time it's either a royal, a general, or an admiral.

[@MarcStjames-rq1dm]

Tiger doesn't have an L? Lion has only four letters...... what r u gettin' at?

[@BlindMansRevenge2002]

With a surprising regularity that the British send their naval ships to the breakers it’s a wonder there’s a British Navy at all.

[@jamescutright919]

Thank you for all you do. It’s very well researched and presented. I always look forward to your releases.

[@Dave_Sisson]

Looking at the list of upcoming ships I see a few of my favourites, the raider Pinguin and the oldest partially intact ironclad monitor HMVS Cerberus of 1868, although it's more of a rusty breakwater than a proper ship these days

[@99IronDuke]

The Save the Cerberus group have, sadly, been largely ignored by both heritage Victoria and the local council.

[@comeslittorissaxonici7395]

@@99IronDuke Yes, we have. I wonder if Drach will include Abyssinia and Magdala with Cerberus?

[@EmperorNefarious1]

You say we missed out on a proper gun duel at the Falklands, but wouldn't the 3in and 6in AA of the ships be more useful, since air attack was the main threat for the navy. and the 6in guns would make for excellent fire support on the ground.

[@Solidboat123]

I'm sure he said that in jest. Belgrano's chances of getting into gun range of the task group were always practically zero (the fact that she was in the event sunk by the nuclear attack submarine HMS Conqueror while still hundreds of miles away demonstrates this). The bigger threat was her escorting destroyers which carried ship-launched Exocet.

[@dagmastr12]

I'd just like to thank you for your channel, I find it very interesting and wish you success with your channel.

[@jannegrey593]

Drach finally done a video on something that even had rockets on it and is almost fully (except the hulls) a post-war ship. Great! BTW if you're interested in post-WW2 submarines I suggest channel named Sub Brief - also known until couple of months ago as Jive Turkey. Great stuff.

[@tedthesailor172]

My school class was taken for a guided tour of the Tiger back in the day. We all lined up on the dockside afterwards for a photoshoot, but I lost my picture along the way...

[@markchip1]

Thank for at last covering these wonderfully odd ships!

[@trolleysparks3941]

Awesome Video, Many Thanks

[@iberiksoderblom]

Now its a great weekend !

[@mikebrown3772]

How could a video about the Tiger not mention it's moment of fame in 1966 when talks were held abord between Harold Wilson and Ian Smith of Rhodesia

[@williamcarrington3474]

Yes indeed , Harold had a bad attempt at trying to sabre-rattle ! I was based at Jufair , Bahrein in 1966 .

[@overboss9599]

ooh nice drach uploaded.

[@michaelalexander2306]

I remember visiting "Snakey Blakey" at Portland. I was most interested to see this ship as my father had served on HMS Swiftsure and, before that, HMS Nigeria.

[@7thsealord888]

Noting also that early trials of the Harrier jump jet were conducted off these ships.

[@rictusmetallicus]

I wasn't so early that something mentioned in another one of Drachifinels videos hadn't happen yet. Or still was around. Or not around yet. In fact i was here at around 15:30 o'clock german time.

[@agesflow6815]

Thank you, Drachinifel.

[@markgarin6355]

Lions and tigers and.....ah Blake's? Oh my.

[@mudhutproductions]

That is an interesting stern.

[@jamesk370]

I could see an alternative universe where the retrofitted Tigers were purchased in the late 70s / early 80s by a country like Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippians (etc.) and became the flag ships of their navy. Both ships were in decent shape for their age, and their 6" guns and [relatively] large helicopter capacity would have given a county like these some unique & desirable capabilities. In this era of acquisition I could see the 3" gun mount being replaced with something like a MK-112 "match box" launcher, to give the ships some modern missile capabilities (Harpoon & ASROC), and maybe having the Seacats supplemented with CIWS (e.g. Phalanx, etc.).

[@MCLegend13]

Nah I’d rather an alternate universe where Lion is still in the fleet and all 3 are kept in Royal Naval Service and are modernised even more so they could last till the late 2000s or early 2010s. If only

[@bjturon]

I think the Tigers being armed with four twin 4.5-inch guns (very reliable) would have made for a powerful looking ship, that along with Seacat would have punched a pretty good AA and ASuW armament. The then under development 5"/56 gun could also have been used in three to four twin turrets, in place of the 4.5" guns. Given the size of the cruisers, a "Daring-class" armament would have been best, with the additional internal space used for flag facilities and a Royal Marine detachment, befitting their role as cruisers.

[@davec5153]

Nothings change, they still do things on the cheap even though the navies a 10's of the size it once was. Aster 15/30 on the type 26 instead of the cheaper CAMM, no missiles on the QEC and still using a 20mm cannon on phalanx instead of RIM.

[@iancjohnson3813]

I served on the Blake for the conversion refit and first commission after I hated everything about it

[@maxnicholls7254]

every generation relearns mistakes. The dreadnoughts initially had little or no secondary or tertiary weapons, rapidly re-instated in subsequent classes. Guns were removed from fighter planes only to need re-instating following Korea and Vietnam. Close in weapons systems and guns were re-instated following the catastrophic loss of RN ships at the Falklands; Tiger and her sisters were much missed there

[@MartinCHorowitz]

Too bad the ship didn't last longer, Heading into battle blasting the Eye of the Tiger would have given it a great morale Boost :)

[@murray1453]

I fired the 3"/70 Mk 6 during my time on HMCS Gatineau (Improved Restigouche Class). It was a far more powerful gun that the size suggests. The ROF for the Mounting was 180 rpm and the HMC ships carried over 1800 rounds. Each round weighed 50% more than the the round for the American 3"/50 (the projectiles were almost a kg heavier as weel) with a maximum range of almost 20 Kyds. I remember that with the Mk 48 and SPG 515 FC systems our MER was between 8.5 and 10 Kyds. The two big draw backs were the weight 37 metric tons (Gatineau only displaced around 2900 tons) and maintenance. For example, it took one person an entire week to grease the gun.

[@Big_E_Soul_Fragment]

Aw should've named the last one after big cats to keep the theme with the other two

[@thomaszinser8714]

lmao, clearly they were just predicting RWBY.

[@jonrolfson1686]

How about Sabre-Tooth?

[@species3167]

@@thomaszinser8714 So the Blake's nickname could have the Black Tigress?

[@davidorama6690]

Tiger for me will always be the Matchbox kit that I overlooked for the Tribal Class and Z Destroyers...

[@shaunnugent4853]

I would like to find a image of HMS Blake (in it original form before the refit but not essential) that I could made into a framed post for my son (Blake 9). He would think this would be cool. He watch some of your videos with me. A model kit would be good to but it looks like we will need to settle for Tiger and change the numbers.

[@stevevalley7835]

*perk*, we get a look at the BB-10 Maine next week? I ran into quite a bit of information about that ship while researching the lurid problems the USN had with the 12"/40 that ship, and a couple other classes, were armed with. I'll be looking forward to your piece.

[@paulwillson8887]

I saw this ship when she visited HMC Dockyard Esquimalt in the 1970s

[@Paveway-chan]

Not a lot of gun on a fairly large amount of boat, but when the budget is *that* tight...

[@99IronDuke]

The rate of fire of those 6 inch guns was very impressive. It did not take all that long to empty the magazines.

[@comeslittorissaxonici7395]

There was a model of one earlier version intended for Blake at BRNC (in the NBCD block) with 3 triple 6" turrets - like Swiftsure which she closely resembled)

[@wheels-n-tires1846]

Such a narrow fantail!!! Adding a flight deck above such a narrow beamed area looks...strange...

[@dgr8zod]

Fantastic as always. Thanks!

[@McRocket]

Interesting class. Thank you for this video. Peace.

[@Duckless23]

How about a guide on the HMVS Cerberus? It was the first of the 'modern' battleships and its design was the first in the world to incorporate the combination of a central superstructure with fore and aft gun turrets. Launched in 1868 Cerberus is the only remaining breastwork monitor class warship left in the world. Cerberus not only has its hull but also its gun turrets and its guns.

[@robinmilford2426]

I remember a story about one of these, Tiger I think, accidentally firing a 6" shell while alongside in Devonport. Was it true? I had the Airfix model once and converted it with a bit of carved balsa wood to add the flight deck and hangar.

[@comeslittorissaxonici7395]

Not sure if she fired one, or one was just dropped from height when storing ship, but there was an incident along those lines

[@demportboy1584]

RM I understand it was a training round, but no explosive to detonate on impact. It landed in the yards compressor building and did some damage to the walls, this was located by the massive large crane by one of the basins. Heard details when at the training centre for pumps, small engines and auxiliary turbines.

[@gneisenau89]

Review suggestion: Independence class light carriers, converted from Cleveland class cruisers. I have a soft spot for these ships as my father served aboard one of them in 1945: USS Bataan.

[@artbrann]

now compare her, gunfire wise if nothing else, to the Phoenix aka General Belgrano for that hypothetical last cruiser gun duel

[@benbaselet2026]

It is kind of cool that we can now just use hangar shots from WoW to represent the actual vessels :)

[@pittsburghmcconnell]

End of a era

[@77thTrombone]

I don't know who _Blake's_ namesake was, but I think the trio could have achieved some popular acclaim with the names _Tiger, Lion,_ and _Bloke._ _Bloke's_ motto would be "Wot's this?!" It's crest/emblem would include two forearms with rolled-up shirtsleeves.

[@mikaelhermansson7544]

Have you ever considered doing a piece on the Swedish airplane cruiser HMS Gotland? She saw active duty during and after wwII.

[@marcusfranconium3392]

Interesting as the last gun based cruiser only left active service in 2017 the BAP almirante Grua ex HNLMS de Ruyter.

[@fasthracing]

Be great if you reviewed HMS Trumpeter (and her class) WW2 Escort carrier's built in the USA but used by the RN. Regards

[@ivymike2691]

Suggestion: (original) USS Kearsarge

[@The_Viscount]

Very strange ships, imo. The designs look underarmed, but, I suppose the autoloaders mitigate that a bit. Definitely prefer the factory default configuration though.

[@johnshepherd8687]

The Worchester hand autoloading 6" guns and more of them.

[@StuPony111]

A tantalising prospect. A Brooklyn against a one handed Tiger

[@jemb67]

Big gun junkies prefer a fairer fight - Brooklyn v Belfast! (Yes, I know there's no way they could've got Belfast into service and crewed!)

[@middleway5271]

Really great name for a war ship.

[@elcastorgrande]

Father of the RN? Try King Æthelstan of Kent, beat the Vikings in 861, at Battle of Sandwich. HMS Æthelstan...what a cool name!

[@triplecap4307]

And the whole video I kept thinking did they go to the Falklands? Blimey.

[@magiaconatus]

Drach plays War Thunder Naval? 👀

[@evensgrey]

And here's what you get when you have some real knowledge of the classics: Knowing why you'd have a ship called Blake in a navy big on thematic naming of ships when the class is called Tiger.

[@tbalmer1207]

One dose not simply forget the farther of the Royal navy.

[@Trek001]

Believe it or not, my old man was involved with some of the work on _Blake_ and although a lot of what he did in that time was classified he did once tell me that there was a plan to strengthen the flight deck to take a fully loaded Harrier because some chaps at the Admiralty remembered that the RAF had landed one in 1969 onboard and therefore thought that it might be useful to have somewhere for a Harrier to land for a refuel so it could extend its range if they were sent out hunting for Argentine ships

[@Jarumo76]

Drachinifel: " Allow me to introduce today's ship. It is 'HMS Tiger'. Audience: "Tiger?" Drachinifel: *alarmed* " Where, where ?!!"

[@Iain1957]

The picture of Tiger moored next to a Charles F Adams class destroyer shows the problem - two semi automatic 5 inch guns, ARISOC and Tarter plus the radar suite coming into service in 1960 a year after Tiger. The delay muddling around meant that they were almost obsolete before they got into service.

[@maxinelouchis7272]

While understanding the practical and financial reasons, I always fell a little sad to learn that a ship has been scrapped.

[@EliteValor1003]

Ah yes the scraping of cool and legendary ships.....

[@senojbdet]

In the the 1960s there were two HMS Tiger. One the ship in this video and HMS Tiger the shore base in Singapore. How did the navy deal with this situation?

[@peterdavy6110]

Singapore naval base was HMS Terror not Tiger.

[@senojbdet]

@@peterdavy6110 I stand corrected!!!!!!!! Not a good excuse but age dims the memory! For me it was pretty good cos I got the first and last letters correct!

[@redjacc7581]

IJN Yubari please :P

[@mattbowden4996]

...the irony, of course, being that they would have been ideal command ships for the Falklands campaign.

[@mattbowden4996]

@@fullmontyuk That's what refits are for.

[@mattbowden4996]

@@fullmontyuk Okay, this demands a more thorough rebuttal. 1) With regard to refits, replacing the obsolete automatic 3" turret with a Sea Dart launcher would have saved topweight - not added to it - and would have given the RN more coverage from the only genuinely effective long ranged SAM system available to them. Meanwhile ditching the admittedly useless Seacats for Conventional Launch Sea Wolf systems would (in theory, Sea Wolf wasn't entirely reliable in 1982) have dramatically augmented the Fleet's short ranged AA capability. Conventional Sea Wolf Launchers weighed about the same as the Seacat system, which was large and bulky on account of fundamentally being 1950's technology. Any excess weight would surely have been compensated for by the weight saved by installing Sea Dart. 2) Do you know how much AA armament HMS Invincible had in 1982? Basically a single Sea Dart Launcher, which was useless against Exocets. HMS Hermes only had a pair of Seacat systems. Despite neither ship having any built in defenses against sea skimming missiles, neither was sunk by Exocets because - on the whole - the pickets did their job properly. Had a Tiger been present at the Falklands then, as a command ship, it would have been similarly protected by the Royal Navy's frigate screen. The idea that the Tigers would have been any more vulnerable than the carriers is clearly false because the carriers were already intrinsically defenseless against sea skimmers, relying entirely on the fleet screen for protection. Even without a refit, a Tiger would have not have been at any greater risk of loss than HMS Invincible was historically - and arguably might have been at less risk because it would have been a smaller target and the automatic 3" might have been useful as a last ditch point defense weapon.

[@davidjames4915]

It is interesting to ponder what might have been if Argentina had waited a month or so to invade, thus possibly putting off a recovery mission for several months until the latter half of the year, and what that would have meant for some of the older RN ships still kicking around like Tiger, Blake and Bulwark. To consider the potential of a task force with 4 carriers - Invincible and the new Illustrious, plus Hermes and a patched-up Bulwark as a helicopter carrier - along with the remaining gun cruisers Tiger and Blake is interesting to say the least. The RN would have much more latitude for more aggressive action. One can readily imagine Tiger and Blake hosting SAS/SBS teams and engaging in naval bombardment in support of their operations, for instance. Your suggestion of swapping out the 3" turret for a Sea Dart and the Sea Cats for a Sea Wolf launcher is definitely an interesting one, but I wonder if the 3" turret could really be replaced with Sea Dart in a matter of months.

[@mrpusser0348]

@@davidjames4915 sea dart would need a below deck magazine so that’s a big job !

[@jaimemetcher388]

@@fullmontyuk I have no horse in this race, but I'm having trouble reconciling your "lack of AA protection" with the "most potent AA in the fleet" comment from @Jake. Unless we're saying the whole fleet had rubbish AA.

[@karmaraven6066]

hello history