Dragon Age: Top 5 Retconned Moments In The Franchise

[@TheMagicalPinata]

Sloth daemons not being in Inquisition is not a retcon but lore friendly. They just couldn't be bothered with the tiresomeness of showing up

[@UnrealAxel27]

completely in character for them

[@sarafontanini7051]

much like sloth in FMA "dying is such a pain...living too is also a pain.."

[@linasalazar4906]

That makes so much sense….

[@TheStraightestWhitest]

It's still such a shame. Fans weep for the Desire Demon's retcon. Enjoyers weep for the lack of Sloth Demons.

[@CasualNotice]

Actually, they retconned them into despair demons. It's in the lore cards in the game.

[@Kazaki000]

Leliana's case is like that scene in the simpsons show: “Burns was rushed to a nearby hospital where he was pronounced dead. He was then transferred to a better hospital where doctors upgraded his condition to ‘alive’.” 😆

[@aclaymushroomwithaberet7084]

very accurate lol

[@Asderuki]

I don't even remember need to kill her actually XD

[@KedemothThePaladin]

belated response, I know. In Inquisition, if you explore and speak to everyone in Skyhold, there's a physician (around the wounded/dying soldiers) that explains that there's always use of good herbs and plants to be used as an alternative to magic. So for this predicament upon Leliana to work, I'm guessing that Brother Genitivi found her gravely wounded and provided likeness treatment with herbs and plants, until was able to pass her towards an Enchanter for better treatment. I could go outlandish and say that Andraste herself swooped down, after seeing her ashes being defiled, and blessed Leliana with new life, which is why she was more dedicated to the Chantry in DA2 and Inquisition.

[@aclaymushroomwithaberet7084]

@@KedemothThePaladin actually if I remember correctly she died but her belief, allowed a fade spirit to cross the barrior and gain form like Cole, because of all the Lyrium near Andrastes ashes, but that's what I remember, and I haven't played this game in 2 years

[@KedemothThePaladin]

@@aclaymushroomwithaberet7084 I do believe I was "1 Up'd"

[@YoRouable]

"Leliana, I thought you died!" "I got better." 👍

[@EphPhaThaINC]

Yes, she wanted to to go for a walk, and waltzed herself straight outta Fereldan and into Inquisition.

[@Katzykeens]

S'was justa cold~

[@goldensoul6696]

“Ahh the benefits of a redundant nervous system😂” Wait. Maybe Leliana was Krogan all along 👀

[@Macrochenia]

"Turns out I was only mostly dead. Try finding that on a government form."

[@EphPhaThaINC]

@@Macrochenia well look thinks that they know. Well it turns out that your friend, that she is only…mostly dead. You see that there is a difference to mostly dead, and all dead. When she is mostly dead, she can be revived, and when she is all dead, there’s only one thing that you can do, go through her pockets and look for loose change.

[@Macrochenia]

I'd argue that the biggest retcon in Dragon Age is Awakening. Bioware seems to have retconned all of it out of existence, not just Anders.

[@MrDMIDOV]

I’m starting to think that the new bioware creative teams have serious grudges against the OG origins team.

[@Macrochenia]

@@MrDMIDOV At the very least, they seem to be completely uninterested in continuing any of the plot hooks from the original game.

[@WeeBitIrish]

@@Macrochenia Which really sucks Origins to this day is still my favorite game

[@reffa2858]

@@WeeBitIrish foreal. Make the hero of Ferelden great again!

[@gamer2101]

@@Macrochenia I agree. I think everyone that works on a dragon age game needs to play the first game. They don’t need to complete it 100% but they need to finish the main quest line. They need to see what made people love the game. The plot from the game was simple but also amazing. They can bring some of what happened into new games. I understand giving the player so many choices makes that an issue but it can be done.

[@MCPunk55]

Iron Bull does mention hornless Qunari, and you CAN create one. Bull says a Qunari without horns is often destined for great things.

[@ZrodyApo]

They also made Sten into one of those hornless Qunari, he appears in one of the early comics as the Arishok, succeeding to the one from DA2

[@123Juniiorr]

they are also used as spies

[@MCPunk55]

@@123Juniiorr Aren't those the Vidathari? Then again, Iron Bull is a spie so I guess horns don't make the Ben Hassrath.

[@garrenbrooks4778]

Qunari we're always meant to have horns from the very beginning. It was cut from origins because the developers were struggling with a way to be able to equip helmets to sten.

[@rafabuda0]

@@garrenbrooks4778 it wasn't just sten, it was any qunari. That's why the lore tidbit about Tal-Vasoth cutting off their own horns also exist.

[@ThatFella]

I think my favorite "Retcon" is Oghren dying from an antagonistic HoF and then just strolling into the Awakening DLC like nothing happened and having to come to terms that The Hero of Fereldan tried to kill him. Always gave me a good laugh!

[@nbHawkeye]

I also never will forget howy dwarven commander was suddenly talking to an invisible Oghren that never appeared in Awakening whatsoever. That was the moment things started going bad.

[@rafabuda0]

I love how at this point Oghren is pretty much immune to death. You kill him in the main campaign? He says he woke up later with nothing on. Leave him to defend Vigil's Keep? Bastard takes on two ogres at once, collapses due to blood loss and wakes up weeks later just fine. I guess he just has so much alcohol in his blood that bleeding doesn't threaten his like it just sobers him up.

[@AndyJP]

I've assumed that Anders became less of a goof in DA2 due to the spirit of Justice within him. He mentions that it is impossible to tell his thoughts from Justice's, which I think means that their personalities have melded

[@BigDanGaming]

At this point I pretty much just assume that EVERY dead character will make an appearance in future Dragon Age games. It's basically a meme at this point 😂

[@sarialue]

absolutely 😂

[@UnrealAxel27]

yeah I 100% killed Zevran in Origins and he's just magically okay in DA2.

[@Aldrius]

@@UnrealAxel27 That... sounds like a bug.

[@UnrealAxel27]

@@Aldrius might be. Might not. Either way he won’t show up again

[@hulCAWmanianUniverse]

and then Big Dan Gaming brings back Jenkins... if he works for bioware in the next mass effect...

[@dirkbsilver9260]

I love dwarves in my fantasy games. To say that it's a fetish is stupid when those saying it are usually the ones going out of their way to expand or use elves, or dark seductress mages, or sexy pirates, or bulky sexaholic barbarians, and the list goes on. Truth is they had their own fetishes they think is supreme, thus the sexualization of them. However I loved the Josephine romance and adored flirting with Harding. If they made a romance with her but fleshed out like Josie's, I would have been over the moon.

[@MikeWilliams-uh8ii]

Yeah, out of everyone, I really kind of dug Harding more than any of the romanceable characters.

[@Deej210]

It also doesn't escape me that the elves in Thedas are by and large considered to be inferior/slaves but are still written as love interests or sex objects or whatever, but romances/sexual encounters with (fantasy) dwarves are toooooo taboo to write or include because of irl HUMAN people with dwarfism, (as if they are not capable of 1) having sex; 2) being considered attractive). Another commenter mentioned the fact that people with visible disabilities are infantilized, making them inherently "unattractive" outside of people with fetishes... which is more telling of the devs/writters than the people who play their games.

[@dirkbsilver9260]

@@Deej210 very well put. Thank you.🤠👍

[@iloveyourunclebob]

Hawke actually spends a year paying off the debt to get into Kirkwall. Act 1 takes place a year after the Blight, and DA2's prologue, ends.

[@doctorlolchicken7478]

The issue with retconning character deaths is that it makes it progressively more difficult to have emotional stakes. It’s becomes the same as killing Batman or Superman - no one really takes it seriously. Would A Song of Ice and Fire be anywhere near as popular if the next book revealed that the people from the previous book who died are not really dead? Sure, you can have one or two fake outs,like Gandalf in Lord of the Rings, but once it becomes common to retcon deaths people stop having emotional investment in the characters.

[@taitia8619]

Uh, well, that did kinda happen in A Song of Ice and Fire with the resurrections.

[@iloveyourunclebob]

@@taitia8619 true but thats really only Cat/Lady Stoneheart. Good odds it will be Jon too and there are a few we aren't sure if they are dead and brought back or not. Thats part of the story tho. Like OP said, you can have one or two fake outs.

[@gamer2101]

Let’s bring Ned stark back. Would be totally fine with that. Lol

[@mandu6665]

@@gamer2101 I'd rather have Ned back than lame Karen-ass Lady Stoneheart. GRRM essentially neutered an interesting and mysterious side faction because he couldn't let a character go. Not that the series will ever be finished lol.

[@IntranoM]

The thing that bugs me the most, is how the changed the elves bodies troughout the series. They had normal bodies in Origin, then suddenly the developers though they should look like shoulderless anorexics in 2 and Inquisition. And why do Sera and Egghead get to look line normal proportional people, while the elven inquisitor looks like a pumpkin on a stick?

[@sarialue]

i loved sera's and solas' preset bodies, really hoping for some body sliders in the upcoming game!

[@CyberBlastoise]

Honestly I preferred DA2's look. Usually in media elves are just people with pointy ears and nothing more. In DA2 they looked lithe and human-like but alien.

[@nooneforpresident]

tbh, the origins body shapes were a result of the team using the human male body rig as the base shape for all race+gender variations. it's the same reason why the dwarves have gorilla arms that drag the ground and human females have yaoi shoulders. so, they may have tried to make the elves look the way they did in da2/dai the whole time if they'd built each body rig from scratch.

[@JK-mn6tk]

I like the way elves looked in 2 and inquisition as it adds to the look instead of going the humans with pointy ears route. My problem is that in 2 they were unplayable and in inquisition barely any of the player clothing looks like something an elf would wear and some of them aren't properly modeled to the elf body type.

[@B.B.Digital_Forest]

@@nooneforpresident I thought the dwarves in Dragon Age were supposed to be very stocky. More so if you look at the production sketches. In that scene where the Inquisitor can hug Varric the guy has a huge head. This sort of fits with the Iron Bull's description of Varric as dense, because he's heavier than he looks.

[@megsyworld]

Although I can never bring myself to kill Leliana in Origins, I really like her ending card in Inquisition Trespasser if you do. It implies she’s some kind of lyrium ghost (one of Fenris’s unique abilities as well interestingly) and that she just disappears as her job there is done. I really want to know more about lyrium ghosts, are they real? and if they are, what do they do and why are they brought back?

[@mikechansw748]

In origins, how do you make her find out about the ashes? She will attack you in camp?

[@mikechansw748]

@Armando Molina I tried destroyed the ashes and talked to her in camp. I couldnt find the dialogue option to make her attack

[@nukeyourhouse]

Interesting

[@Tetricus57]

@@mikechansw748 You might be able to attack her at camp, but I know you can kill her if you bring her along with you to the Temple of Sacred Ashes. If Leliana is with you when you defile the ashes, she attacks you immediately after. Wynne will also attack if she is with you.

[@BlazinVoid59]

@@Tetricus57 i believe if Leliana is hardened she'll just have some disapproval but wont attack

[@dorrianbrooks9408]

I do find it dumb that they made a big deal out of romancing dwarven and Qunari females since they sexualized Varric as you mentioned, and Iron Bull. From the random Haven comments about women wanting to smash Bull, to the fact that Iron Bulls romance, while very sweet and wholesome, is VERY sexual.

[@rafabuda0]

Hell it's beyond that, his romance starts off as a purely sexual relationship. It's not until you make the medallion for him to show that you're serious that it becomes a full relationship. So you can have a sexual BDSM relationship with the giant slab of a qunari man but any relationship with a qunari woman is too much?

[@TheStraightestWhitest]

The devs: Let's retcon Desire Demons because it sexualises women. The devs: Let's remove characters like Isabela because it sexualises women. Also the devs: Let's make Iron Bull.

[@TheStraightestWhitest]

@@rafabuda0 Woke logic. Doing it to men is fine. Doing it to women isn't.

[@pbonfanti]

@@rafabuda0 Very dumb, considering when i romanced Bull, it was with a female qunari inquisitor.

[@unofficialmajima617]

@@TheStraightestWhitest ragebait account

[@MaxStoryTeller92]

I really hope the OG desire demons still exist and returns eventually. They were fabulous. Oh, and I want to know Bianca's side of her story with Varric. I want her as a companion.

[@sarialue]

i agree w/ all of this

[@zeropolicy7456]

Idk. I am interested in Bianca as a character and her relation to Varric. But her personality is too abrasive to me for a main playable character. If they do add her to DA:DW, I hope they give her a character arc that finally humbles her and tones down that sense of arrogance she's famous for. Plus, with as much Skyrim I've played, it's weird hearing Serana talking about Blight and Red Lyrium. Lol.

[@Skyte100]

Desire demons probably werent in Inquisition because they're the smartest demons. They knew to get the hell away from the Breach. The Pride demons didnt and look how that turned out for them.

[@Nyrufa]

I don't remember exactly where I found it in the games, but there's a codex entry which reveals that the Despair demons are actually the Sloth demons. It turns out that scholars and researchers had misinterpreted what the demons truly represented, which lead to them underestimating their true power and threat level. After they realized their mistake, they reclassified Sloth as Despair.

[@Hexaile]

I like to believe that not all Sloth demons== Despair demons, but all Despair demons were classified as sloth demons at one point and we now have a destincition. Stuff like that happens in our world as well in regards to animals, so its not even that weird.

[@AzureRoxe]

Even within the lore, how in the fuck does anyone confuse or misinterpret SLOTH with DESPAIR?

[@Nyrufa]

@@AzureRoxe Both emotions rob the victim of their drive and motivation to press on, or change their circumstances. They stop struggling, give in, and let defeat take them. They lose hope that things can get better.

[@xXscreamingkoalaXx]

The writers really dropped the ball on making decisions matter. They talk like that's not even a goal. They just do what they want, regardless of our choices.

[@nbHawkeye]

It pretty much makes you realize how much Bioware has changed for the worse. I remember somebody that had the Warden end up with Leliana after Origins ask why she's not with him anymore getting the answer they broke up directly after the ending. They stopped caring.

[@xXscreamingkoalaXx]

@@nbHawkeye Yep. Honestly I play Origins and I can see love and care in droves. A whole universe created with clear passion. And I wonder, "Bioware made this?" Because everything after it totally lacks that feeling. You can tell they stopped caring immediately after this.

[@nbHawkeye]

@@xXscreamingkoalaXx I'm currently doing a playthrough of Baldurs Gate until Baldurs Gate 2 and it's the same thing. The same thing goes for Mass Effect. I first saw it in a magazine thinking it would suck until I decided to give the game a chance. I was blown away from the beginning until the end. I remember discussions on Gamefaqs about what awesome things that will be added in Mass Effect 2. Until the things that were taken out were announced. Planet exploration and elevator talk were gone and the reasons they gave seemed more like excuses. The games were okay, the final boss was epic and so Mass Effect 2 ended while being nowhere as good as the original. After the godawful Dragon Age 2 with it's "Nothing you did in this game mattered at all" ending the announcement I hoped they would not make the same mistake and end the trilogy in a high. Oh boy was I wrong. There were parts that people that did not play the first game could not have known about and they decided to end the original Mass Effect trilogy in a way that nothing you ever did in these games mattered AT ALL. I miss the old Bioware.

[@xXscreamingkoalaXx]

@@nbHawkeye Honestly it's probably a handful of talented developers that we actually miss. Shout out to those guys, wherever they are. We miss you.

[@sweatysocks8214]

@@nbHawkeye @Nightblade Hawk what type of take is that? Look you're entitled to your opinion but saying mass effect 2 was no where as good 1 is just shocking to hear. Personally I think 1 is fine but a good chunk of it was boring as shit.

[@MCPunk55]

I think BioWare writers may be projecting with their reason behind not having Dwarven romances. So they have a BDSM romance with a giant half-dragon Elf but not a romance with a Dwarf or a Female Qunari? And what's this about "Fans only care about sex" when Josephine's romance is one of the most liked? Like I said, projection. Dude, a female Qunari Romance has A LOT of potential. Pun sort-of intended. So what, Iron Bull can be a Dom but a female Qunari can't? Especially considering Qunari are a matriarchal society? And Dwarves? Dwarves love too. And reproduce. Hell look and Varric and Bianca. But be careful, 'cause the latter will feed you your own eyeballs.

[@Treeeboy]

Seconding this, the whole "We don't want to fetishise stuff you pervs!" falls pretty flat when you have Iron Bull there being himself. Also I wanted to cuddle Harding because that girl is adorable and badass.

[@darthportus]

How exactly is Qunari matriarchal society ?

[@MCPunk55]

@@darthportus Talk to Bull. Temassrans make all the rules. Control who one breeds with.

[@akitku1489]

@@MCPunk55 Sure. But aren't women among the Qunari limited in other ways? At least according to Sten. The fact that there are some important law-making roles for women (especially if focused on reproduction) does not mean it's a matriarchal society...

[@MCPunk55]

@@akitku1489 Bull himself calls it a matriarchy.

[@tor_ras91]

Sten was originally supposed to have horns, but they were struggling on how to deal with him and other Qunari wearing helmets in DA: Origins.

[@kyleellis1825]

Sten got a lore reason to explain it. Every other Qunari in Origins is a retcon though (yes due to graphical limitations.)

[@killemkillua]

@@kyleellis1825 in reality that meas we were able to pull some bullshit outta our asses that made sense while ignoring the 99% glaring issue with our writing.

[@YoshtTheAwesome]

If you read the Templar specialization description in Dragon Age 2, it very heavily implies that Hawke also takes lyrium, it's just never mentioned outside that.

[@charcharr]

That gator writer sounds like he's mad at life because it gave him baldness and just sounds bitter most of the time lol

[@northernexile]

I think this is one of those where you can only kill Leliana by making a 'stupid evil' choice for the sake of being an ass - this is probably why BioWare largely ignored the choice. I mean I don't agree with ignoring people's choices but I get why they swept that one under the rug. Also desire demons gone because bigtiddydemonbad.

[@ElectromagNick]

I always assumed it was a writer at BioWare prorecting his favorite character/waifu, if we're willing to use an otaku term.

[@th3thatguy631]

I killed leliana and Wynne at the temple of sacred ashes my first playthrough to get the reaver spec, I roleplayed it as "lesser evil" as my pc felt he needed the power of blood magic in order to defeat the archdemon with him feeling self conscious about his true abilities

[@Aldrius]

They wanted to use her for a role in Inquisition, so they retconned her death. If you killed her in Origins, I believe Inquisition will mention that she disappears into the night or something in Inquisition's epilogue.

[@MrOrdosan]

ya but thats just lazy to retconn a death. they could have used someone else in that slot. I mean...mass effect did a decent job at keeping...most people dead. and even repalcing them for a different person to fill in there slots.

[@Aldrius]

@@MrOrdosan they could not do that with how leliana's role works in inquisition. Most of the characters who have substitutes have relatively small roles in ME3. I think they screwed up letting us kill Leliana in DAO but I think inquisition would lose something if it was a new character instead of Leliana.

[@nuadha5868]

Honestly, besides retcons, I'd love to see the HoF return in Dreadwolf as a temporary companion like Hawke, or something like how Morrigan was in Inquisition.

[@route77productions]

My dream scenario is a short unique scene where all living protagonists (DA: Dreadwolf included) are sitting down exchanging tales. It won't happen but one can dream.

[@carpathianforest]

whenever i think of the HoF appearing in the games again, i think about what they'd do with the voices.. in origins we're the silent protagonist so im curious as to what theyd do for that or maybe they would just include a brief scene with them atleast, no talking included? pretty please bioware let us see our wardens again

[@ariezon]

@@carpathianforest I think it's much more gleeful if the HoF didn't speak at all, and whenever they are asked about the situation or opinion, a prompt for the player emerges to choose an option with the DA:O style.

[@ddsjgvk]

How do you get past the fact he/she has no vice and people are very vocal about not giving the HOF a voice amd actually want dragon age to go back to voiceless protagonists

[@RNCHFND]

I don't think they'll ever bring him back because he can die at the end of the game

[@MichaelDavis-mk4me]

I don't mind Leliana coming back as a retcon, it's okay some ridiculous choices are not cannon. I wish they made Morrigan having a demon child cannon though, it really makes the Mythal situation much more interesting. I know they won't because it's a major choice, but I really miss Morrigan being an important character, like Leliana was in Inquisition.

[@zacm9747]

I guess I don't really understand your comment. If you're World Keep state includes her having an old god baby with the HoF she's definitely in Inquisition.

[@MichaelDavis-mk4me]

@@zacm9747 But since it's not hard canon, it means it won't play much of a role in the next games. Why? Because if they made each choices central to the main story quests, it would mean Bioware would have to developed to what amounts to completely different story lines. This is why massive choices like the Grey Warden being King consort or Alistair means we basically never see the ruler of Ferelden beyond cameos that last at most a few minutes. By introducing to possibility of a character not existing or being dead, it means we won't see them much, due to the too many story paths it would open.

[@AzureRoxe]

? Morrigan DID have a "demon child", it's part of her story in Inquisition where she begs Flemeth to let the child go and Flemeth simply removes Urthemiel's soul from the boy, saying they were never in any danger from her.

[@MichaelDavis-mk4me]

@@AzureRoxe Which lasts one scene. I don't expect it will last more than that in the next game, since if you don't load a world save, she does not have a child, the Warden just dies without doing anything other than the main quest.

[@gamer2101]

Morrrigan is one of my favorite characters in gaming. She does not want to be a hero or help the world be a better place. She is a realist and doesn’t pretend to be anything different. She may love one or 2 people but that’s it. She is very refreshing and I hope somehow we get more of her in the next game. She made origins so much fun. I loved talking to her and traveling with her to hear her comments about what was going on. I know it’s just me but I found myself agreeing with her point of view most of the time.

[@AKillerOmen]

I wouldn’t say the desire demons are retconned so much as if you remember in origins Conner is possessed by a desire demon. And depending on your choices im and import he is possessed by the same one again in inquisition. So there’s the chance that Imshal is a desire demons that hates being called such, and is actually just in possession of a body.

[@Pfisiar22]

Hawke meets Anders well after a year after the 5th blight. Remember that Hawke has to work for Mirrin or Athenril for a year before they come in contact with Varric. And even then, it might have been even a couple months after being realeased that they make contact with Varric. So Anders meeting Hawke definitely takes place well after a year post-blight..

[@DarkheartedMKGames]

Another retcon was how the qunari treat women in origins sten says women aren't warriors under the qun and giving some examples of the jobs they are given but in inquisition this has changed

[@fatal_error_3]

The way they turned the Qunari into champions of wokeness in DAI was painfull. Everything you learned from Sten and the Arishok was just wiped out.

[@Aldrius]

@@fatal_error_3 It was... really weird. I was just like "you're telling me the Qun doesn't allow a baker to pick up a fishing pole and become a fisherman but it's cool with someone completely changing their gender identity from the one they were assigned at birth? Okay...". Like why? Having the Qunari continue to be close minded and traditionalist doesn't mean *Bioware* is. Iron Bull having a different perspective is cool, he's a spy and he's far from home, and it might be how HE interprets the Qun, but implying the whole Qunari race is like that... like... again, why?

[@darthportus]

Yeah in DA 2 Arishok stright up refuses to have duel with you if you play as female Hawke because woman can't chellange man to duel under the Qun and you need to have Fenris in your party so he can point out Loophole that allows you to do so. But Biowere went with the woke way and couldn't have bigoted faction in their game so they make Qunari just be able to say that they are not women so they can do man assigned professions making the whole "men jobs and women jobs" thing completly redundant since you can basicaly choose anyway.

[@beccangavin]

Oh, I almost forgot about this. They retconned all of Qunari culture. They could have just had Iron Bull struggling with the difference between the dictates of his conscience and the dictates of his culture and that’s why he was accepting of Krem where the Qunari in general have a more rigid view of gender and that would have made a lot of sense within his personal story arc. In general, I think they removed a lot of the conflict with culture/society/class from the game in Inquisition. The story was more milquetoast than the previous games because of it. If they really wanted to critique that rigid worldview, then displaying it and the negative impacts of it would have been more effective than erasing it. Making the Qunari woke undermines any attempt at critiquing that worldview.

[@fatal_error_3]

Not to mention the mage Iron Bull had in his team and acted like it was no big deal. Absolutely out of the question for DAO or DAII Qunari, even for a mercenary band working for them. Qunari tolerant towards mages? As if the Arishok never existed.

[@beccangavin]

The only retcon I didn’t like was the change from having the Templar’s take lyrium for their powers. Having the church control their army by controlling their access to an addictive substance had some interesting implications from a thematic perspective, especially for a set up like Inquisition. I have a theory that they wrote a story that critiqued conformity and related religious fundamentalism or zealotry and then removed the critique when they actually made the game. As a result, a bunch of dark elements were introduced but never interrogated and it feels like the story just lacked the punch that DA:O and DA:II with their stronger themes. I didn’t really like that they had an opportunity in Inquisition to really explore the demons in relation to the religious themes that could have been present in the game and then chose to make them mindless mobs instead. They were much less interesting. But that isn’t really a retcon, it’s just that they ignored the cool demons and gave us a bunch of mindless mob demons to grind for xp. I was fine with Anders appearing in DA:II the way he was. The Anders character fit the theme and the story and was extremely well executed. I didn’t mind the aesthetic changes either. I liked that the races became more distinct in DA:II. I kind of think of the DA:O Leliana and the Inqusition Leliana as the same person but in two different, parallel dimensions. All in all, I don’t mind just about all of the retcons. I wouldn’t mind any retcon that served the purpose of making a stronger story or better game.

[@DaleNormanXorial]

Leliana never died in any of my Origins playthroughs. This caught me off gaurd hearing that.

[@sarafontanini7051]

it should be noted that sten was originally supposed to have horns, supposedly, they just had trouble implementing them for some reason. So the idea was aalways for qunari to have horns, thy jsut didn't figure out how to make it look goold until DA2

[@darthportus]

It was because Sten wouldn't be able to wear helmets.

[@rafabuda0]

It's pretty much that, they didn't know how to make qunari's horns fit well with the helmets so in Origins none of the qunari have horns and later on we got the lore that Tal-Vasoth cut off their horns and that some qunari are born without horns.

[@kyleellis1825]

@@rafabuda0 The Qunari in origins are still retcons (outside of Sten). The models have smooth foreheads not the sawed off stumps from 2.

[@shatteredking2774]

I agree that dwarves have been pushed into the background and I hate it. Dwarves are my favorite part of Dragon Age and the few we see the most (like Varric and Harding) aren’t very Dwarfy since they are surfacers, they’re are just treated like short humans. They need some love in the next game. I want more Dwarves, better beards, romance options, and their other city Kal Sharok.

[@Aldrius]

Kal Sharok is pretty close to Tevinter, so it's likely we'll see it.

[@TheStraightestWhitest]

The Descent felt incredible. The atmosphere was dripping! We need more of the Dwarves. There's something fantastical about them due to their nature of living underground. It's the same reason we are fascinated with caves and the sea I think. It's because we know so little of them due to traversal being so difficult. As a result, they are an extremely suitable pick for high fantasies, because you can stretch the imagination so damn far without it becoming less immersive or shattering disbelief. Tolkien was a master of it.

[@PatrickGannon]

The next game is in tevinter which is full of dwarves. They even have an underground embassy so they can deal with tevinter directly without becoming casteless. I think were going to see a lot more of them again and how red lyrium can alter them in other ways.

[@tj3603]

Regarding red lirium idol, I always thought Meredith became new idol in the end of DA2, and idol we saw in FH trailer is her.

[@adnanrivera7795]

Desire demon?!?!?! HE IS A CHOICE SPIRIT!!!!!! 😂

[@sarialue]

my bad... damnn

[@blueblue4083]

I am very much looking forward to where they take the idol and red lyrium. I think the minor retcon will be worth it if they execute the story well.

[@sarafontanini7051]

meanwhile I'm more itnerested n what the Idol is and what its pupose was originally. After all, SOMEONE made that thing (Unless this is answeed in Inquisition, my apologis)

[@pedrogonzaleznunez2197]

Another cosmetic retcon was in the chantry costumes between DA:O and DA2 and then again between DA2 a DA:I.

[@Specuh]

Gaider avoiding dwarf romance options is the biggest self report I've ever heard. You have to have a really dirty mind to even think of that. 😂

[@d0minican0milan0]

Seriously lol 😂 I enjoyed reading a lot of his DA stuff so I assumed he was a pretty cool guy, but holy shit does he come off sounding like a massive wierdo

[@HenryHeimlich]

I have always seen retcons as being a result of new writers wanting to change the path of a story midstream. The old writers had a plan, the new writers don't really like it and have their own plan so they hand wave a bunch of stuff and start their own path going forward. A great example of this is the Qunari. Sten presents the basic Qunari philosophy as "You cannot escape/change what you are". It is why he gets confused if you are a female fighter of some sort. For the Qunari, women cannot be fighters, so you cannot be a woman and a fighter. Successive writers have not liked dealing with this, as they want their female Qunari fighters, dammit! And later, we want the Qunari to not be transphobic for some reason (as if that would be the only problematic thing about their culture...) we have Iron Bull make a convoluted explanation about women who want to be fighters can declare themselves to be men (which makes no sense in a culture that assigns your role at birth). True, Iron Bull is Hissrad, and could be lying about this, but we still have Tallis who does not fit either explanation, being a female fighter... not a male fighter or a transman fighter. All this makes sense if you look at it as successive writing teams not liking the previous writer's direction and figleafing a lore break to make a change they want in the canon. It sucks, but it is what happens when you bring in different artists from the original to continue/complete a work of art.

[@alexandrearaujo7114]

Tallis is (or was, never completely understood that character fate+never liked her much) is a Ben-hassrath, not a member of the antaam. I believe that even Aveline mentions something about "being easier to convert/spy on people if you're a cute elf, not a horned giant". As for the female fighter thing.. yep, they want to be inclusive, which is stupid since I don't think any sane person would look at the Qun as a good example for society.

[@Jan-gh7qi]

@@alexandrearaujo7114 I think, one problem with the qunari is, that there we're two concepts of them from the start, that contradict each other. They are explicitely modelled after the two largest ways of organizing a society, that are traditionally in the West recieved as opposed to the Western way of life: Islam and Communism. They are based in a revelation in the desert, connect culture and ethicity in specific way, have an Expansionslist aspect to their worldview and are at war with the Bayzantine Empire analogue. (No I'm not saying that Islam is always like that, but this is how it is often recieved in western Media). Like in the Western Image of a communitst society, they habe a distaste vor monarcy, organize labour by plans , have an all controlling state and have replaced religion with idiology. They are the essence of "Nonwestern Culture" or more bluntly they are what every American is afraid of ;) The writers now use them in two very opposing ways: On the one Hand they are a foil to the human world. They might not be right in their actions every time but they offer a new point to think about the human society. In the other hand they serve as easy villains. You need a generic cartoon villain? Here is some Stalinist-Taliban with horns. Both are fine, but they don't go very well together...

[@spacejesus6581]

I think you’re misunderstanding what Sten meant by women can’t be fighters, he doesn’t mean biological women can’t fight, he means that’s a woman in Qunari culture just isn’t a fighter, the Qunari don’t see men and women as what you’re born as or what you identify as, but it’s what you are based on your job, if you’re a fighter you are man, regardless of sex or gender, if you’re a baker you’re a woman regardless of sex or gender. For a militaristic culture to refuse strong women in the military just for being women is ridiculous, and it’s equally ridiculous said culture would allow weak men into the military just for being men This can also be used to do away with Bull not caring about Krem, ignoring that he’s basically Tal-Vashoth already and probably not even guided by the Qun, Krem, a born woman, is choosing to be a fighter and mercenary, that would make Krem a man in the Qun regardless of whether or not Krem identifies as one conventionally

[@SeventhheavenDK]

​​​@@spacejesus6581Actually no. Sten literally asks the Warden, Leliana and Wynne why do they want to be men. Because he sees them as women because physically they are women and that's how he sees them. If the qunari assigned gender because of their roles then Sten's question would had been... Why do you call yourself a woman if you are a man? Which means Sten doesn't recognize their Gender because of their job, but because of what they biologically are. The Krem situation was just a big retcon to push a woke agenda, and to use it as a social bludgeon. One of the worst ways to push said agenda, by the way. Iron Bull wasn't even Tal-Vashot yet when that scene with Krem happened. On top of that, Bull also mentions that the Qunari people refer to the trans with a specific word (which I don't remember right now), and also mentions that they still make fun of them at their backs, contradictory again, because then that means they DO recognize their gender by the body they are originally born with.

[@kongming66]

@@SeventhheavenDK Both you and op sound like you're projecting your own agenda. It's def a retcon, but one that was very useful for both creating new plotline and worldbuilding opportunities and expanding the lore beyond "look, the Muslim/Commie ogres think women should stay in the kitchen." Besides reinforcing the subtle underlying theme that the Qunari are ironically not a monolith by contradicting themselves every new game, the trans bit in particular was blatantly added to flesh out Tevinter and show how they and the Qunari are diametrically opposed. Add to that how every female and mage Qunari character have been walking contradictions to the Qun, and it makes the Qunari much more interesting than one-dimensional secondary antagonists. But go ahead and minimize it as "woke" because it doesn't fit *your* agenda. Not like all 3 games and DLCs were helmed by *one main writer* who oversaw the worldbuilding until 2015.

[@sandman45981]

The thing that still bothers me is the reasons for no dwarf or qunari romance. I'm if the whole issue was about a sex scene then just don't do it. They could have for example had you dance and kiss Scout Harding to show you are in a romance with her and no sex scene like they did with Josephine.

[@pickybusiness8549]

It's just weird that they are willing to sexualize varric but a dwarf female is off limits? I can see some problems but I like your point, not every romance needs a sex scene, I dont romance Sera to shave my inquisitors bits like you can in inquisition, I Romance Sera because I like helping her deal with her insecurities.

[@kyleellis1825]

@@pickybusiness8549 Dwarf females don't have facial hair. It looks like a child/adult romance without context and that might seriously hurt it getting released in some countries.

[@rosydemon2640]

They already gave the female Inquisitor the option for stubble. Why not give that to all female dwarfs like Lord of the rings for example? Problem solved.

[@sandman45981]

@@rosydemon2640 its wasn't about them having facial hair or not. It was the fact that one of the writers did not want a dwarf romance cause it made him feel like he was writing child porn. I mean go back and look at the games the only way to have a dwarf romance is to play that role.

[@SeventhheavenDK]

There is a Qunari romance.

[@CelestialNerd336]

"Roleplaying a character who has sex with a Dwarf is icky" -the studio who let Sheppard have sex with Garrus

[@jamesandthemgiantcheeks2798]

I think the bit talking about Fen' Harel killing Dwarves in their dreams is them being cut from the fade, not actually killing them in the mortal sense

[@sarialue]

hi there, in TN they are confirmed dead

[@geotcxs1697]

Not trying to be rude but kinda feels that David Gaider guy was an idiot and it's a good thing he's no longer in the team, I guess 🤷🏻

[@kosimiki]

All of these answers from that developer were unsatisfing. That pimp comment just makes no sense and bringing back characters from death because they want to is just lazy.

[@DocKrazy]

Regarding leliana's death - I think lampshading it in dai was the wrong move. The way I chose to see it is as follows: Leliana doesn't die but is injured and left for dead. The fact you can "see her desintegrate" is simply because of the game mechanics. Every corpse you loot vanishes and the devs didn't make any destinctions between leliana and any other npc so the issue is a purely visual one. If you like you can of course say that maybe she also thought she was dead/unconscious and maybe she was even brought back the the gauntlet ghost which makes he believe she was actually dead. As it stands it is a retcon but not one that I mind. We seem to forget sometimes that retcons are a neutral concept and not something that is inherently bad. Some retcons should be welcomed.

[@kyleellis1825]

The PC in Origin survies what, 3 or 4 near deaths? Leliana can have another one, she was a PC for that one DLC.

[@Hexaile]

People need to remember that some game mechanics are not abilities or "rules of the world". If enemy corpses doesnt disintegrate and leave loot in DA5, that would not be a retcon, just a change in game mechanics. So I absolutely agree with you with Leliana being left to die, but surviving.

[@DocKrazy]

@@Hexaile yeah and that's the thing. Enemy corpses *have* to desintigrate, especially if the game has respawning enemies. Otherwise that would lead to too many polygons on screen (not to mention would be very morbid)

[@Hexaile]

@@DocKrazy Exactly

[@AzureRoxe]

Taking into account Leliana herself lampshades it and, if you finish Trespasser with a file where she died in Origins, a cutscene mentions that a huge cloud of Ravens suddenly appeared in Skyhold and, when they went to check on Leliana, she was gone and left only a message that implied she was some sort of spirit that appears when she's needed.

[@FranzDCIII]

"We're not your pimps" *Proceeds to make humongous Iron Bull for your tiny human ass*.

[@chrisb.4547]

I guess that shows how diverse Dragon Age was. Lelianna never died in any of my play-throughs Ever.

[@witchywoman2008]

The most surprising thing about this video is the appearance of Triss Merigold.

[@Shyhalu]

7:00 LOL what a bunch of hypocrites. "My degeneracy & kink is allowed, but not yours!"

[@killemkillua]

They have a certain kink for innocent female dedicated into a field in game one turns into badass leader of a underrgroud sydinate in game three. Its kinda gross when you can READ the writers sick so openly while he publically shames others. I'm guessing he doesn't consider certain heights tall or small to be morally correct but he's all for space pussy?!?

[@AzoiatheCobra]

Replying to a year old comment. Yeah hipocrisy at the highest heigh. No female dwarf romance? Why? Because of it size, as im seeing comented by other, and so it would appear child porn? My girlfriend, soon to be mother of my child, and who is older than me is 1,49m high... If they see a short person and think of children is their problem and they are projecting. What, they cant differ between a adult woman body and a child body, even if they have the same size?

[@witcherxarxsis3842]

So the Qunari having horns is not a retcon persay. Sten was suppose to have horns in Origins due to graphical issues. They gave a lore reason as to why he didn't have them.

[@kyleellis1825]

The retcon is for every other Qunari in Origins.

[@CornBreadtm1]

Leliana: "My death was... greatly exaggerated."

[@MichaelDavis-mk4me]

I honestly never thought dwarf romance could be considered a perverse fetish, I honestly don't see why they restrict themselves story-wise because of some very obscure fetish a few odd people have. I find it strange that they are disgusted by the idea, especially since Iron Bull's romance is very "fetishy". I hope they changed their mind of that, romance is honestly incredibly important and it's sad that dwarf players cannot have a dwarf romance, it sort of makes them a second rate race that can never get what the others have.

[@wompoo7967]

DA 2 was created superfast (the taint of an EA production time) 18 months... so I will forgive a lot of issues. DA:I is just pathetic.

[@a.m.pietroschek1972]

Yeah, like tropes in movies: The formula applied by someone not understanding roleplay at all and expecting customers to be too dumb to even notice.

[@nicolezara1]

Ty! I need a new dragon age channel that actually puts out content! I feel like a lot of DA KZbinrs have kinda disappeared because of the lack of DA stuff going on rn

[@sarialue]

welcome!! ☺️

[@TheStraightestWhitest]

Yeah this was oddly wholesome to pop up into my feed. I guess it's what happens when a series takes a near decade hiatus and still hasn't had more than a teaser for their next game on top of having killed interest for a lot by having its latest entry's creative director spout off on social media about his politics and telling anyone who doesn't like it to take a hike.

[@odjiragaming5778]

"we won't be your virtual pimps" so your dwarf character can't romance a dwarf, but you can get railed by Iron Bull. Makes sense.

[@gmason1725]

Its hard to define something like Leliana as a retcon considering it is based on player choice. If she play one way it is just a continuation of the character. Of course that raises a big issue of how much does your world state really matter if it brings back characters no matter your choices.

[@kyleellis1825]

She was "killed" right beside the urn of sacred ashes. Odds are she got revived due to the dust in the room being ashes and it healed her.

[@withering.chariot3720]

@@kyleellis1825 well that’s what was talked about in the video: you can kill her away from the ashes. If you don’t bring her with you and then confront her in camp after you defile the ashes, you can then kill her in the camp

[@AzureRoxe]

@@kyleellis1825 You can kill her back at camp, so no, it's not the ashes.

[@kyleellis1825]

@@AzureRoxe Killing her back at the camp is even easier. It's not vital she dies, you just need to hurt her enough to leave with no further drama.

[@vesuvius2444]

Gaider can't stop dwarf romances or bring anyone else back from the dead no more. That's what I got from this video.

[@MrSpleenboy]

In all honesty, Gaider sounds like a sanctimonious, pompous ass from the quotes given in the video

[@disasterjones5798]

Bioware: Ew gross, you want to romance dwarves? We aren't going to be your virtual pimps! Bioware: We gave the desire demon some massive bonghongalahoobers. Get it?? Desire?? Haha we're so clever this is why we pay ourselves the big bucks

[@RaphaelDDL]

The darkspawn design from DA1 to DA2 was the most "wtf is this" I ever made, where DA2 almost all darkspawn had those dumb looking circle hats like Kung Lao from MK, and all have that blue armor, different than the evil zombie looking ones from DA1. And they kept being weird in DA3 Regarding Leliana, my DA1 playthrough I didn't kill her. I knew that could happen so I did the choices that doesn't kill her because I liked her (not because of being religious fanactic but of the romance option). So when I saw people asking about why she's on others when she was dead, I just assumed that the writers chose to use that path of not killing her, but nevertheless, they did add an option to the people who killed her to have the "I don't know how I'm alive" lol

[@Barotto87]

Dwarfs deserve better.

[@sarialue]

agreed!~

[@Cool_Adam]

8:47 So basically the person staying with the fade spider demon in inquisition will probably not die.

[@TheSpicyLeg]

Unfortunately. This is a very real problem with not just Dragon Age but a lot of modern games and films. We are supposed to give weight to deaths, and the threat of death is supposed to raise the stakes. But if characters can just come on back, then how are there any stakes? One of the most powerful moments in Origins is having your Warden make the ultimate sacrifice. Can they just come on back? If not, why not?

[@SinclairDante]

For Stroud/Hawke/Loghain I can see any of them making a comeback by being possessed by the spirit of Justice/Honor. I mean if a spirit took on the likeness of Divine Justina, they can easily write it for any of these characters to survive. Especially if Hawke were to survive this way, I can see him making references to Anders.

[@Betterthenme]

Wish we got justice instead of Anders 😅 loved my spirit boy and helping him experience the world. I like a lot of the race changes they have done though

[@a.m.pietroschek1972]

Play a mage and hand him over to the Templars. Saves headaches and time wasted on bad, sexist jokes. `Oh, I am totally NOT a blood-mage, maleficar, abomination guilty AF, y'know? Mage players had that in DAO already.´ 🙃

[@AeschylusShepherd]

I am so excited you are posting videos again about my favorite franchise of all time! Love your videos!!

[@sarialue]

ahhh thank you! im glad to be back!

[@thealucard9119]

But the death of liliana in the first game is Just OPTIONAL! so she doesn't SUPPOSE to be dead, so if we see her again is fine, I don't understand why everybody so confused about this

[@Dawn_Of_Justice]

You are right. Liliana has never died in my playthrough so her death is optional. I never sabotage the urn, that's probably why she always live.

[@AnastasiaLazerbeam]

The biggest retcon for me Alistair sister but then according to the books not really cause Alistair is half elf. Because they didn’t do it in the castle but underground with a half darkspawn turned elven warden…

[@jljljl1820]

i think Goldana could have been Maric's bastard with a servant. that would still make them siblings

[@SeventhheavenDK]

@@jljljl1820 . In any case that wouldn't be Goldanna, but the baby HER mother conceived with Maric.

[@jljljl1820]

@@SeventhheavenDK why not?? they would be siblings but only sharing their father

[@darthportus]

The retcon is kinda beliveable though. They had maid that was impregnated by some noble but she and her baby died during birth so they used this convience to mask Alsitair true mother because if the world found out that Alistair is half-elf he couldn't be Cailan's replacement if the need arrive.

[@SeventhheavenDK]

@@jljljl1820 . Because Goldanna already existed, her mother gets pregnant of another baby, as the comment above mentions of another Noble, or even Maric himself, but the baby indeed was born dead. If that baby was Maric's too then that baby would had been Alistair's brother/sister. But not Goldanna, she does not have any relationship with Maric.

[@Asoeee]

Your videos make me want to play the series again, watch theory videos and read dragon age wiki :D

[@calangodoido22]

im glad they changed qunari and elf tbh. Especially the elves. They were so ugly in dragon age 2 that i always laughed when someone in the game said that the humans found the elves to be beautiful

[@darthportus]

I think they nailed the design in Inqusition in orgins they were just pettied humans with pointed ears in DA 2 they were aliens from another planet. DAI design is perfect blend with the previous two.

[@calangodoido22]

@@darthportus i still have nightmares with the da 2 dalish elves lol

[@aicchi1234]

I'm surprised Cullen wasn't on this list...his ending slides in Origins (if you side with mages) were very disturbing and he was really bigoted in DA2. The fact that they tried to present him as a 'good/decent templar' in the 3rd game really bothered me because they glossed over all the shitty things he did and all the new players who got introduced to Dragon Age with Inquisition first wouldn't even know about it. In my opinion, he would've fitted Samson's role as the red lyrium general in Inquisition more than Samson since he actually had enough backstory than Samson to justify it.

[@sarafontanini7051]

its certainly a strange choice to take the guy who was consitntly an asshole in the first two games (granted, having a redeeming moment towards the end of DA2) and then just making him striaght up good with none of his prejudics being on display.

[@sarialue]

hi just saw this, and that one was very close against anders!

[@akitku1489]

Totally disagree. In my opinion he is well written. He is a character of good intentions who struggles - with the culture he was brought up in, the cruel stuff he went through. He is a deeply flawed person. But a person who consistently wants to do good. Just gets lost in what the good is. Like many other DA characters: Solas, Anders, Merril, Leliana under certain play-throughs. It's a great aspect of Dragon Age games. He grows and works through his issues and is willing to admit he was wrong. Which to me is very powerful. I think it's cool how he starts and ends as a relatively compassionate person despite being very much rule-oriented. He loses that side of him, after he was shown none...Also, in my opinion his assholeness is exaggerated by people who dislike him. Yes, he says some awful things. But that's after torture, witnessing insane amount of death and brutality, and being starved and on withdrawal...Also, it's his words that are bad, he doesn't actually do anything particularly evil. Anyway, sorry for the long reply, I don't mean to argue, it's just I've thought about it a lot....

[@armandoarcadia4802]

I kind of like that demons dont have a defined form. They are these formless creatures and it woudl be much more interesting if they had varied forms

[@kyleellis1825]

At least give the demons with a personal name varied appearances/create 3-4 models for each demon so we get variety.

[@weegamer1238]

Samson can be executed in da2 by Meredith during the quest where the blood mages kidnap Bethany or Carver. There is no option on the dragon age keep for that so it seems bioware forgot it or ignored it

[@peckneck2439]

If there is one thing that DA2 did the best it's artstyle especially with how characters looked like. Elves and Qunari had unique head shapes which made them look different from humans but now in Inquisition they are basically humans like they were in Orgin again lmao

[@maevze]

I like to think that the reason they looked so different (and the elves looked so ugly) in DA2 is because Varric is telling the story and Dwarves "don't find other races attractive". However, I would love to see more variety in the new game, but this is Bioware we're talking about :((

[@hinasakukimi]

i really loved the elf noses in DA2, they looked beautiful in a unique way imo

[@adeptdamage3669]

Elves looked ugly in 2.

[@Geminilion100]

No mention of "Alistar's True Mother" retcon? I feel like that writing choice invalidates Ander's growth, and just serves to make him a Mary Sue. Giving him both a super special day and a super special mom.

[@mirath8679]

I've always felt like, if you're going to do whatever you want anyway, why even give players the choice? Make it the linear game you want it to be. Don't make the choices you give us meaningless, just take them away so we don't have to be upset about it.

[@ХузинТимур]

Because ability to choose is more attractive for players. They want to sold you idea of choices and simultaniously want to avoid implementing various effects of them. Even in the best case (Witcher 3 by my experience) choices are limited to one game in series, they don't matter between games.

[@vardellsfolly5200]

I subscribed! Keep up the good work, Saria! You make beautiful, and very informative, videos!!

[@sarialue]

Thank you so much!

[@bread7932]

What I can't get my head around is why they didn't just go with a new idol, either made by/for the wolf or found in another part of the deep roads

[@ingolf82]

Something about dwarves always confused me, do they gain the ability or lose their resistance to magic after they turn into darkspawn? Because you see it goes like this. a female dwarf turns into a broodmother, but that broodmother only spawns Genlocks, Qunari broodmothers spawn Orges, Human broodmothers spawn Hurlocks and Elf Broodmothers spawn Shrieks. You would think the dwarves spawn shrieks and elves Genlocks but no. so it stands to reason that the dwarf darkspawn gain magical abilities after being born as darkspawn. not sure if I looked this up somewhere on dragon age wiki or it was somewhere in the game. but the elf to shriek transformation can be seen in game with Tamlin. Since, if you play a Dalish warden, he will be with the shrieks that attack your camp later on.

[@TheSpicyLeg]

You kind of have to take Origins and the books with a grain of salt. It was obvious they wrote origins as a self-contained story, which is why it ends decisively. It wasn’t written with heavily planned lore expansions in mind. However, the Calling book brings up several possibilities for how dwarves can access magic. The Architect uses blight magic, and does things previously thought impossible, like halting the degeneration of Ulta’s mind from the taint. Fiona becomes pregnant despite being sterile from the taint. And the Architect teaches First Enchanter Remille to wield blight magic, speeds up the tainted degeneration, that sort of thing. If the taint is the Abyss as is believed, and originated from the Black City in the Fade, then darkspawn are really Abyss creatures from the Fade, in a way. Perhaps the Sidereal magisters, making a connection to the Abyss upon breaching the Black City, can establish a tie to it through the taint. This isn’t surprising given that mages are simply people who can tap into the Fade at will. Once a dwarf is corrupted by the taint, it can access that power through the taint itself. It is also possible that dwarves always could access magic, but the Titans severed the connection in order to prevent the elves from continuing their genocidal war via magical means, as was seen by Fen’Harel’s killing of dwarves through dreamwalking. A dwarf tainted loses this protection, it’s just that they are so compromised that they can’t learn to utilize magic before they are killed. It isn’t as though they are interacted with beyond attacking.

[@kyleellis1825]

A different bard tells the story of each game, this explains the retcons/differences between Thedas.

[@AzureRoxe]

@@kyleellis1825 But the one who tells the story of 2 is Varric, who is also in both Origins and Inquisition.

[@kyleellis1825]

@@AzureRoxe He's still not the one telling the story of 3. IT's a differetn sotry teller each time.

[@samithonjames370]

Origins is so irrelevant now with the massive amount of lore retcons and just outright rewrites, you can skip it and have the same experience as everyone else because nothing changes from origins to inquisition. I imagine the continuity with origins will be even less relevant with the next dragon age, especially awakening that expansion is a joke now. It's such a shame because the questions it asked were interesting enough to get me to buy the next two games but i still have so many questions, and they will never be answered.

[@cttommy73]

Origins, the best game of the series has been used and abused so much, it is not even funny anymore. DA2's retcon(as far as I can remember) at least wasn't as bad nor as many so i guess there is that.

[@darkfool2000]

Why would you skip the best Dragon Age game to player the inferior sequels?

[@B.B.Digital_Forest]

I fear the upcoming Dragon Age cartoon series will be like that.

[@Citizen_Nappa23]

As for the Qunari even The Iron Bull stated that his race of qunari look different from the others that broke off the ones across the waking sea,(he also said "we didn't start that way which was interesting bit of information)he dosent say specifics but it implies he's talking about the horns, so it may not be a retcon altogether or differences in appearance from different groups of Qunari.

[@permeus2nd]

7:04 but if you want to hook up with a Elf or Human or even a qunari we the devs will be more than happy to fix you right up.

[@kellyhickey5314]

Amazing and informative as always !

[@sarialue]

ty Kelly ❤️☺️

[@illandreidelorpha4774]

I'm really glad to see you again!

[@sarialue]

aww ty for this comment, glad to be back!

[@spudssnowdrops6286]

As an rpg, the dev's response to character death in game (eg Leliana) seems quite derogatory and disheartening. I don't mind Leliana returning as you can find ways to canonically justify it in your own world state, but to tell gamers their choices in an rpg when it comes to character death doesn't matter just takes away player agency and the point of an rpg based around player choices. Had he expressed an understanding of this, and that the reason to bring such characters back was to drive the story, rather than telling their own fan's they'll be disappointed and leaving it at that, would have demonstrated that the devs at least pretend to care what their own consumers want and would earn them far more good will. And good will can get a gaming company a lot of consumer trust that translates to more games bought both present and future. The fact they said this, combined with the excuse that they think their own gamers fetishize dwarves (projecting much?) just gives the sense that they either don't trust or don't like their own fans. Remember when we all met Scout Harding? Everyone and their mothers were raving how cute and adorable she was, not how they wanted to frick her. It sounds like such a demeaning viewpoint to have on the people who have been and are supporting your work.

[@kyleellis1825]

I wish Leliana at least had some scars in the save files she was killed. the dust in the room she was killed could have been some of the last untainted ashes. They settle on her body and revived her once the Warden leaves. Or they could have had Wynne use the last of her life force/spirit friend to heal Lelianna, Lelianna faked her death, or was left for dead and managed to crawl away later. I Considering how few times someone we kill comes back, I'm fine with Oghren/Leliana only being nearly dead.

[@joenesvick7043]

Hawke: "Sister Leliana from Lothering, I thought you died" Leliana: "Perhaps the maker didn't feel like it was my time" Disgruntled fan: "That's bull's hit!" Lead writer: "Did you check her pulse" Disgruntled fan: "I literally chopped her head off!" Got a mod for the Qunari in Dragon Age Origins, also a mod for Sten since that first mod gave him horns when he shouldn't have horns. Got a mod for the slides at the end of Origins & Awakening, now it's more connected. Got Dragon Age Origins appearance mods for Anders, Isabela, Flemeth, Merrill and her entire clan. Got a mod for an elf girl running around Denerim to resemble Sera. Got a mod that replaces the nurse in Ostagar with Hawke, since it's totally the same voice (Ciri from the third Witcher game, I'll remove it when I plan to play a mage Hawke), Carver & Aveline are there too. I'd love a mod for Bethany in Lothering, but the only one I found replaces another character. If Bethany wants traps, why does the journal still say Alison 🤔 Actually got a Zevran Mod for Dragon Age Exodus (modded name for Dragon Age 2) because I didn't like his updated look lol 😝 I tend to play Leliana's Song before Dragon Age Origins (like I play Price of Neutrality and Side Effect before The Witcher). First two Dragon Age games don't have controller support, gotta use Steam's controller configuration like I do with The Witcher 👍

[@Macrochenia]

Most people would have written Leliana off for dead, but not the Illusive Man...

[@TheStraightestWhitest]

You didn't answer their question. You chopped her head off, but did you or did you not check her pulse?

[@Erebus04]

I feel like the reason Sloth and Desire aren't seen in Inquisition is because with the Mage Templar War, the Orelsian Civil War and the whole chantry being blown up what they desire (You know laziness and Lust) aren't strong enough and aren't in the four thoughts of peoples minds as much as Rage, Terror and Fear and thus those Demons aren't strong enough to cross the Breach into the Human World

[@wesleygee1062]

I mean Leliana and Anders are "Don't pick the bad ending" retcons. Those are justifiable since the writing assumes you're going to make good decisions that lead to good outcomes. That's fine, you shouldn't base future writing off the few people who wanna have quirky stories. However there is one retcon tht was forgotten about, the greatest fuck you DA has even given... Alistiar's Mom... Origins has the perfect set up for Alistair. His mom was a maid in Castle Redcliffe, and King Marik made her his mistress and such Alistair was born, within Redcliffe. This makes sense since Alistair was raised by Arl Eamon until he became a templar. Also, in Origins, Alistair's personal quest and even his hardening if you choose revolves around his hald sister Goldanna. If you take Alistair into the fade, you see that his greatest wish is to reunited with his sister and thae she accepts him with open arms, but that isn't what happens. Goldanna's mother dies and shes given some silver to keep quiet about Alistair's birth and as such has a miserable life because of Alistiar's birth, so she hates him and it makes Alistair sad. Not only that but Alistair's two major gifts are Duncan's Shield and his mother's amulet. The amulet you find in Arl Eamon's desk, after Alistair tells you that he threw it at the wall and it is then implied that Arl Eaemon found it, repaired and was planning to give it back to Alistair. Needless to say that Alistiar's maid mother is CRUCIAL to Alistair's character and it was such a good detail. And then they fucked it up in a book saying that his mom is the Orlaisian First Enchanter Grey Warden Fiona. First off, she cures the Calling which no one talks about? Like this would be known in Origins given her age like what, 25 years before Origins starts? How old is Alistair? Second, now Alistair is half elf? Genetics would dictate that he'd have some elven qualities, Feynriel had elven qualities or was implied (DA2 graphics not the best), but Alistiar looks perfectly human? Why? Oh because he was written to be a human and then the author changed his mind. And then you're gunna tell me no one noticed that the First Enchanter was pregnant? She has a job you know, an important one. I'm not saying she couldn't take maternity leave but people would know... So what? She just gave Eamon the baby and told him to tell Alistair that his mom is human DESPITE THAT HE WOULD HAVE ELVEN FEATURES!!! Yeah they fucked up with that one. Why does this matter? Because now the whole companion quest of Alistair, the real moments where you see his character grow mean absolutely nothing. Goldanna isn't his sister and that amulet that he cherished so much wasn't actually from his mother so I guess all that character growth meant nothing at all, and this is excluding the previous plotholes mentioned above. I can forgive Leliana and Anders, no one cares about those plotholes, most casual DA fans pick the best possible endings because people wanna play the hero. I can forgive the red lyrium idol, it's not hard to believe that Corypheus found or corrupted more red lyrium, I can forgive the Qunari change (they looked badass in 2) but Alistair's mother change was the dumbest decision they made at bioware regarding the Dragon Age series, and here's the thing, I haven't read the book and most people haven't read the book. So if you play the games start to finish and pick the "lawful good" decisions and make the best possible outcomes, then you're gunna be confused by Fiona is Alistair's mom as theres no mention of it in DAO and DA2, which means to most casual players, this is the only retcon that actually has a major impact in the story.

[@FangXL]

They didn’t want to write in a dwarf romance… but you can play as a dwarf… so any romance could be a romance with a dwarf, right?

[@elvenatheart982]

Wasnt Alistairs mom also a retcon in Inquisition? His mom being a poor servant of his dad in Origins and then being changed to Grand Encganter Fiona....but it may have been done for a book idk

[@jasonwindom7161]

What it comes down to is having different writers going in and out of the project .

[@alexispryde5415]

look i'm just going to say it - that dev team wanted to do what they wanted the player the story and the continuation be damned . that in itself is bad in my opinion - next the dev being discrimintive on a race thats ficticious .... hell if he was dwarfist i hate to see how he acted towards people in real life let alone real life dwarfs ...people like that should not be making final cuts or direction choices for a trillogy

[@timothyjanke7855]

Thanks for unpacking these. These and others have been hot topics for my wife and I. Especially since I favor maining as a dwarf rogue!

[@omarabdelaty634]

I never felt cheated, mostly I felt powerless. like my choices didnt matter. The landsmeet effects seemed to be non-existent, just formalities maybe. That is just sad. I wish some choices were simply non-transferable. Like tell me, we didnt continue the story for this choice, instead of all your choices didnt matter in the end. whatever you chose, this happens. Same thing with trespasser, which was infuriating to me. I couldnt understand how pathetic the inquisition became how the player is completely powerless to stop it. I blamed Liliana for everything that happened in trespasser, I wanted to fire her on the spot for such failure of our intelligence. most of our choices seems meaningless in the grand scheme of things. that hurts more than any inconsistency in the story because of weak excuses. there could be a standard story or dlcs exploring other things. if that gets confusing then just dont. dont make everything meaningless. I was really invested in many choices and expected them to have significant effects on the world. King Behlen shouldnt allow the shaprate to run around like harromont. That is why I voted him king. I wanted to break the stupid meaningless tradtions of the dwarves etc. Make my choices count in the virtual world.

[@maxrander0101]

i always assumed sten was a human from some other land and only grew up under the Qun as we know they are all called the Qunari by the people in the other non qun lands

[@KB-qk1ic]

But every qunari in origins looks like the Sten, and they're all labeled as qunari.

[@maxrander0101]

@@KB-qk1ic and if you look at the way the faith works it is the same as the Mando'a which is made up of not a single race but mostly one we see are of human members but they take anyone that follows the faith and they are all called the same name its the same in the first dragon age we could look at sten and his group as being the ones sent by the qun so they were not killed on site as most would of been thus by sending a group of human members of the faith they would have a higher chance of getting the job done

[@maxrander0101]

@@KB-qk1ic oh and we only saw Sten and his men no others exist so that is such a small number to base an entire faction on thats like jory saying he did not know non humans could join the wardens

[@KB-qk1ic]

@@maxrander0101 we see qunari throughout origins mostly in the deep roads as part of the carta and in denerim. Those characters are always listed as qunari and all look exactly like the sten. Which we are later told is not a name but a title

[@maxrander0101]

@@KB-qk1ic again you miss my point its a way of life a religion like the dam chanty and our own real life ones are we all the bloody same no we are not nor were they hell even elves were part of the Qun this is the name of the faith they follow (rules) not the race it is the people of thadas that called them Qunari the horned race that are the main group are called the Kossith this is the original races name they are known over the world now as the Qunari due to the words of the writer of the text that forms the Qun

[@charlesmitchell8982]

Hunger Demons were also absent in Inquisition and Pride Demons were turned into generic Lummoxies

[@PaulXPZ]

Sounds to me that Gaider was a bit of a narcissistic duche who couldn't give 2 shits about player choice. Also, this many retcons and story plotholes really make me question all these accolades Bioware always receive for their writing. This stuff happens in other BW titles too, not just Dragon Age. Also, any game franchise that requires or just assumes you've read the novels and comics in order to understand the plot automatically gets a minus from me from the start. I didn't even know there were this many Dragon Age comics before this video

[@FaolanHart]

Maybe its just me but I hear a lot of resentment of the fanbase in most of these official responses.

[@Fr0st1989]

Pretty sure the Desire demons weren't in Inquisition because the devs thought they'd get backlash, like they did with their appearance in Origins and 2. And don't get me started on the cosmetic downgrade the Darkspawn received, it was awful lol.

[@samfire3067]

I Just want my two boys back. Sten and Zevran.

[@Foolishdevil2003]

I just want my warden back lmao

[@sarialue]

same

[@Nehelenia3000]

For me the biggest retcon will always be the fact that on my very first, very blond playthru I never met Leliana in DAO but once I started DA2 she showed up insisting she was the companion of the hero of Ferelden. I was utterly confused. I had no idea who she was.

[@cmdr.jabozerstorer3968]

How on earth did you manage to miss her? I presume you just never went in Dane's Refuge? You'd have missed out the Blackstone Irregulars quests too by not going in there, plus a merchant.

[@Nehelenia3000]

@@cmdr.jabozerstorer3968 yeah I never went into the Refuge which is unusual of me as I am usually very careful about exploring everything. And once you’re out of Lothering you cannot ever go back so I had no chance of meeting her. I also haven’t played Lelianas Song or any other dlc before immediately jumping into da2.

[@cmdr.jabozerstorer3968]

@@Nehelenia3000 You can go back after you've visited Camp for the first time but once you progress the main quest and Lothering gets attacked by Darkspawn, you can't. Also, if you'd gone to the Refuge, met Leliana and then refused to let her join the party, she intercepts once more later, so you have another opportunity of recruiting her but this only happens if you didn't accept her to join. Leliana is one of the best Origins characters, so you definitely missed out there. I'm playing the game currently and am about to leave Lothering. I plan to return after I've got to camp (so I can buy stuff I cannot currently fit in my inventry, like gifts and some equipment) and done one of the DLC so I can get the storage chest for the Camp (very useful for a hoarder like me!). I'll also buy an extended backpack from Bodahn too, which shall help. Then once I progress the main quest, I'll obviously not be able to return back,

[@Nehelenia3000]

@@cmdr.jabozerstorer3968 I’ve played DAO multiple times after this and DA2 as well and completed all the quests DLCs etc so I became very familiar with her. Ironically she’s one of the companions that I think stays with the franchise the most, because even if you killed her in the temple of the secret ashes she still returns.

[@cmdr.jabozerstorer3968]

@@Nehelenia3000 I completed one Origins playthrough many years ago (Dwarf Noble) but have done all Origin Stories (but not got them to the Landsmeet) and have completed DA2 twice. Not fully dived into DA:I yet but I'm currently replaying DA:O as a Human Noble as it's meant to be one of the best origin stories in regard to the Arl Howe story arc. I also discovered recently I don't think I ever played one of the DA2 DLCs (where Corypheus was introduced), so it'd make sense for me to do another DA2 playthrough too (I recently re-bought it with all DLC on sale), so I understand who Corypheus is more in DA:I..

[@B.B.Digital_Forest]

I always suspected Dwarves do dream, but without their connection to the Titan they can't remember doing so upon waking up. As for the erasure of the Titans from Orzammar history, it might have been a practical decision by the city's leaders. Imagine waiting hundreds of years for something so important to your people coming back, but only receive silence. So the leaders who wish to just move on remove records and ban mention of the Titans. Then they think of propping up Paragons as a replacement.

[@kyleellis1825]

Considering dreaming is a way of processing memories, I wonder if this is why so many retcons happen? Humans/elves in DA go tothe Fade while sleeping, so they should have terrible short/long term memory conversion. The Warden only remembers killing Leliana but she was actually back at camp and bailed.

[@B.B.Digital_Forest]

@@kyleellis1825 I never chose to kill Leliana so that never came to mind. There aren't many mentions of people sharing their dreams in Dragon Age. So I can't say for sure if many non-dwarves do forget. But I have long suspected there is a limit to how far the Fade's influence reaches from Thedas. I'd love to hear from the Qunari how you don't dream in the Fade if you sail far enough.

[@e.corellius4495]

@@B.B.Digital_Forest the qunari thing would make sense, they didnt even have mages until they got to thedas. and considering the next game is about solas trying to delete the veil keeping the fade out im sure there will be plenty more expanding on that... or at least i hope so lol.

[@ExelArts]

I didn't like how they retconned qunari society to be more open

[@TheGooseGroup]

The only Dwarfs I want to romance is Varric or Harding

[@sarialue]

Facts!

[@rivenrime]

Not Dagna?

[@TheStraightestWhitest]

@@rivenrime Dagna gives me kid vibes. Pls no.

[@rivenrime]

@@TheStraightestWhitest Really? In what way? She's a brilliant, passionate woman. A bit excitable, maybe, but not a kid. Maybe you're thinking Origins?

[@TheStraightestWhitest]

@@rivenrime Dagna is the girl always bothering the blacksmith in Skyhold right? Idk, she just gives me kid vibes.