Dramatic sopranos - HUGE voice moments (Part 2)

[@dramaticsoprano5168]

Some of my observations while making this video... Germanic dramatic sopranos were much more conservative with their use of chest voice compared to Italianate ones. To their credit, their low head tones seemed to project well enough, whereas Italianate sopranos sometimes lose audibility in the bottom of their head voice. Ponselle did not have a short top, or even a low tessitura really. Flagstad's voice was surprisingly agile. Maybe not the fastest in her coloratura, but very accurate. I thought the B-flats of Grob-Prandl and Flagstad sounded like they would match well together (so I imagined this for fun: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZmiwiIZ-gaisfZI). It is a shame there is very few occasions/opportunity for dramatic sopranos to sing together. Nilsson had a very good low register, seems it was a conscious choice not to use it much. We now also have an idea of what her high F might have sounded like! Dimitrova might be a candidate for (one of) the biggest voice(s) ever... Potentially also a forerunner for biggest chest voice in sopranos. And in general, many dramatic sopranos seemed to have pitch issues... I guess it is logical though, the heavier the voice, the harder it is to keep it securely on pitch.

[@achmedmohamed4708]

Dramatic Soprano There is no chest voice. All vibrations were made by the vocal cords into the head. Touch a bass onto his chest. You will feel nearly no vibratios. The litte ones you feel you cannot hear

[@seduardorosales81]

@@achmedmohamed4708 Just as there is no head voice. They are just names given within the study of vocal technique to designate the combination of muscles used. And mainly to facilitate understanding. Vocal register is different from vocal resonance. 95% of the voice is resonated in the oropharyngeal cavity.

[@HlombeSiswana]

Maria callas was never a dramatic soprano but a mezzo soprano who developed her high register, her middle chest voice is darker and heavier than any of these dramatic sopranos even Rosa Ponselle still has a soprano quality

[@dramaticsoprano5168]

@@HlombeSiswana I don’t agree at all. In fact I think her voice is higher and brighter than all of them when she wasn’t overdarkening her sound by depressing her larynx.

[@HlombeSiswana]

​@@dramaticsoprano5168 Maria Callas was a mezzo soprano , she pushed her voice to sound big like a dramatic soprano which is strange because a dramatic soprano doesn't has to push her voice to sound bigger . Callas middle register sounded heavier and darker like shirley verrett who was a dramatic mezzo soprano who sang dramatic soprano roles later on but the difference is that she mostly would come back to the middle register in order to feel more comfortable just like Callas and her tessitura sat between G3 and G5 which is the tessitura of a mezzo soprano, Callas tessitura sat lower than other dramatic sopranos like Rosa ponselle and also she would have a harder time maintaining the high tessitura of the song

[@jmiller05]

Ponselle was probably an extended mezzo... her voice really came alive below the staff rather than above it. Any time she dips into her chest voice, it is truly stunning.

[@theoperatripleaxel5417]

Flagstad, Nilsson and Callas are the 3 best sopranos of all time... OMG i train every day to touch their feet, but as June Anderson once said Maria is a legend and we cant even touch her feet.

[@annatorrestur3078]

The best sopano is Virginia Zeani

[@theoperatripleaxel5417]

@@annatorrestur3078 maybe in your dreams.

[@annatorrestur3078]

@@theoperatripleaxel5417Are you speaking about sopranos or about germanic dramatic sopranos? If you are talking about germanic dramatic sopranos, Callas maybe in your dreams, and Anderson too.

[@KajiVocals]

@@theoperatripleaxel5417 Zeani is incredible, and at the level of these 3 singers.

[@liedersanger1]

Opinions! Ponselle is the greatest soprano of the last century - - comparisons with Nautica, Eames, Melba, etc. can’t really be made given technology.

[@jackhamm1745]

Nilsson's top notes were blasts unlike any others I've ever heard; being gleaming, perfectly placed and sung in tune notes (as opposed to screams) without losing color, focus or placement. Her chest voice was just a powerful! You did not include enough clips of her magnificent top notes! Love these. Jones' clips hear show her in good voice. I love hearing Flagstad in anything. Her "Ah, Perfido!" is amazing for such a large voice. Thanks!

[@dyby]

You are right. The microphones then could not capture the full impact of her voice. You had to see her live. It was not only the sheer volume but, that volume also came with a laser focus that cut through steel. I saw her live several times and her high notes would literally pin you to your seat.

[@judygarland7186]

you saw her live in what roles?@@dyby

[@dyby]

I saw her in Turandot, Tosca, Isolda, Salomé and the Ring Brunnhilde’s.

[@judygarland7186]

how was she in these roles? especially turandot? i guess you watched her in the 1960s maybe? 1965 is my favourite nilsson turandot recording. Was her voice as HUGE and enormous as people say? the forte/fortissimo high notes etc@@dyby

[@eberlinpascal2837]

Callas, Milanov ,Dimithrova : très spectaculaires

[@EmilyGloeggler7984]

Rosa Ponselle is the standout performer - she mostly sings/acts believably. That’s what sets her apart.

[@MMotta-mk8uq]

Rosa Ponselle é fantástica!

[@YDVDNVRR]

Gertrude Grob-Prandl is the biggest of all in size. What a thunderous instrument.

[@akzagianza9280]

Nillson screaming with high F 😍

[@ereki4545]

All of them so amazing and such huge instruments, but Callas hits you differently...La Primadonna! Thank you for this video, amazing channel!

[@babydrane]

So exciting. It makes me wonder what this video would have been like if you only used sopranos born after 1950. Certainly we would get a very different sound and we'd be able to say objectively that they literally don't make them like this anymore. To varying degrees, the amount of squillo each of these ladies could produce was incredible.

[@tasosGRvocals]

Callas was phenomenal, unique..

[@Bravilor]

I think Callas' voice is a bit uncanny, but in a good way. I like her androgynous castrato-like chest voice. Some high notes that are more cool than beautiful. It doesn't sound entirely healthy though. With Birgit Nilsson I almost never hear any pushing and definitely never any forcing. The only time it sounds like she really has to dig deep is in Turandot's high Cs (not to say there was ever any problem doing it).

[@ms.chaewon9231]

Maria Callas of course! A versatile singer.

[@JamesCantorneCTT]

0:06 this is the most unique about Rosa Ponselle

[@correasilvio2010]

The Great Leyla Gencer

[@draganvidic2039]

The sad part is we don’t hear this kind of singing today…

[@dramaticsoprano5168]

I remember ppl used to say Saioa Hernández was bringing back something but personally never been a fan of her. Also, I’m curious what you think of Dimitrova.

[@draganvidic2039]

@@dramaticsoprano5168 Love both of them

[@ER1CwC]

​@@dramaticsoprano5168 I think some people flocked to Hernandez because Caballe endorsed her. It's not unreasonable. But I tend to agree with you here. I think she has clearly studied the oldies, and there's much to admire, but I can almost see her thinking about their technique while she emits sound. It's like I can see the gears in her brain turning. Also, she is singing quite dramatic repertory, and her voice is not that heavy.

[@jamescantorne3720]

the commentator do not probably have an idea bout Gina Cigna, wait 'til they discover Maria Pedrini and Celestina Boninsegna.

[@brunobalzano7566]

Callas! ❤

[@purpletc1]

All wonderful sopranos… one addition not necessarily dramatic.. but what a sound she produced.. Regine Crespin

[@ngochavu6082]

What is the name of the aria in the part of Dimitrova’s Tosca C6 😢 it’s incredible

[@dramaticsoprano5168]

It is from the final scene of Tosca. It is not really an aria but it might be called something like "Franchigia a Floria Tosca" or "O dolci mani" under streaming services. Here is where I extracted it from: kzbin.info/www/bejne/j5-yn5WuhLiNhM0

[@luanllluan]

That C in the end of act 2 of Medea on the standard Italian translation must be one of the trickiest sounds to pronounce. I think Callas herself only did the text as written once in Florence. I don't think I've heard it in the original French, but suspect it's equally hard to match note and word

[@stevensmall6043]

Jones to win it! ❤

[@correasilvio2010]

Leyla Gencer

[@edinshealtiel3754]

Rosa .......😁😍🤩

[@eberlinpascal2837]

Le contre Ut de Callas dans Médéa ,❤️👍👍

[@lucete7240]

The first video of rosa ponselle singing is not on the right pitch...guess it's because of recording problems😢 there's a video in youtbe which corrected to the right pitch by youtuber barone-scarpia

[@dramaticsoprano5168]

Is it too high or too low?

[@lucete7240]

@@dramaticsoprano5168 It's higher than the right pitch :):) kzbin.info/www/bejne/qHyYiWqmeqaXisU here's the video! Before I saw this , I was wondering whether she was lip-synching... because her jaw and the movement of her lips doesn't seem to be coincide with the music! The corrected version sounds much powerful

[@hangchau3216]

zinka milanov voice was so ringing

[@ER1CwC]

The sheer size of Flagstad’s column of sound is really something. It is massive and hits one in the face. It must really have been something live. Some of the others (including Nilsson and Cigna) have very penetrating voices and techniques. But the column of sound isn’t as thick. Ponselle’s agility is really remarkable considering that she was a real Italian dramatic soprano. Callas is my favourite, but I continue to not be convinced that she was a dramatic soprano. Dramatic coloratura, certainly. But her tessitura is higher than the other singers here, and while the voice is penetrating and dark, it is not as thick and weighty. I am _not_ saying that her voice was light. I am saying that it wasn’t as heavy as people like Cigna and Ponselle, let alone Flagstad. The comparison of the Kundry excerpts here between Flagstad and Callas is extremely instructive. I hope that discussion regarding Callas here can be constructive. It unfortunately often is not. I also think that Jones was a jugendliche dramatische soprano and that it was a mistake for her to take on the heavier Wagner roles from a purely vocal standpoint. As for Mlanov, I think she was an Italian dramatic soprano, but not as heavy as Ponselle or Cigna. Milanov had a higher tessitura. Milanov also sounded heavier in the 40s than the 50s, when she was husbanding her resources and not singing as full-bodied, particularly down low.

[@Khalid7a]

Callas' technique is completely different from Ponselle and Flagstad to begin with. It's impossible to categorise her next to them. Even "dramatic coloratura" (dramatico d'agilita) was only invented in 1949 when an italian critic heard Callas in Puritani. My personal view is her technique was composite of different approaches to have a wider range, that's why she had three distinctive voices. Unlike the typical 20th century soprano who works hard to even out her voice yet in exchange lose range. I totally get what you mean by her voice isn't as thick and weighty. I always thought her voice despite being very dark, it was airy with a soaring quality. unlike Varnay for example who had a dense wall of sound. But bare in mind the Kundry excerpts of Callas is from a radio performance, not an opera house performance. Close-miking is extremely misleading. It exposes the voice a lot and doesn't give it a space to bloom like in the opera house.

[@ER1CwC]

@@Khalid7a Just saw your comment. I tend to agree with you. I think that Callas’s Kundry is a misleading performance for the reason you state (close miking). I relistened to it recently, and although she performs very well, she has got to be the lightest Kundry on record. Certainly the one with the highest tessitura. Interestingly, though, she doesn’t push at all, unlike in her performances of the verismo and Puccini rep. Sometimes, it feels like she is almost singing lieder in Italian. So so different than Flagstad’s later live recording of Kundry, which is like watching a freight train go full blast.

[@Khalid7a]

​@@ER1CwCThe point is, It's not either you're Flagstad (in weight) or you're not a dramatic soprano. Flagstad (along with Ponselle, Farrell, Varnay, and Traubel) were the exception, not the rule. Other like Borkh, Nilsson, Rysanek, Mödl (who's regarded as the best Kundry) all had a lighter voices. Even lighter than Callas to my ears. Yet they're still considered among the best dramatic sopranos.

[@judygarland7186]

Milanov was a spinto soprano, just like Tebaldi. Their natural voices are very similar. She just had much better technique in the high notes than Tebaldi and of course much more consistent. Also Tebaldi brought all the weight up and sang more "thickly" than Milanov up there who ligthened more than Tebaldi when it comes to the high notes. Both had very good middle and chest voice development

[@ER1CwC]

@@judygarland7186 I think this is a plausible analysis, although the Met people in the 50s considered Milanov a dramatic soprano. I do think Milanov’s registers were better integrated though earlier on, particularly at the lower end. The Tebaldi cultists on this platform are going to jump down your throat for saying that Milanov had a much better technique.

[@scottgrunow5201]

Grob-Prandl according to many who heard her live claimed the voice was immense. Louder than Nilsson. Another immense voice: Regine Crespin. According to those who heard her live, she drowned out Nilsson in Act 3 of Die Walkure

[@Ruffiello]

@Noack Somewhere That is ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.

[@Ruffiello]

@Noack Somewhere There was nothing average about Crespin's voice or technique. Anyone that can sing as well as she did, in such varied repertoire, has a first-rate technique. It's true that later in her career she lost some notes on top. She herself said that this happened when she stopped working it. I'm a singer. I've sung professionally for many years. I know what it takes to keep a voice working in good condition.

[@hansjancker5057]

@Noack Somewhere Try Crespin's Parsifal(1958, 1960). At that time she is wonderful.

[@ginopietracupa4305]

@Noack Somewhere Crespin high notes never were good or beautiful, they were shrieks without preparation

[@ginopietracupa4305]

@@Ruffiello There was nothing average about Crespin's voice and she lost some top notes later in her career ? Hilarious ! in 1962 it was supposed to be the best year of her career and she gives pity and concern , she not even can handle the soprano tessitura, not only she cracks one high note after another but she can't sing in the upper register, ashamed ! kzbin.info/www/bejne/r2XKoKhrgd52mMk

[@tsquare076]

7:51 O Scarpia, avanti a Dio

[@BaroneVitellioScarpia1]

9:50 the greatest soprano high C ever

[@BaroneVitellioScarpia1]

@Noack Somewhere Not even close. Nilsson had better high Cs than that one which is too harsh and ugly. Her best high C is in Turandot but it still can't beat Callas' Medea high C.

[@BaroneVitellioScarpia1]

@Noack Somewhere Callas' high C is much rounder than Nilsson's and it's definitely not wobbly. And I don't think Nilsson could reach a high E flat, so she surely didn't have better top than Callas.

[@BaroneVitellioScarpia1]

@Noack Somewhere 1. How do you know that Callas’ emission is “unclear unsteady”? If a soprano has “unclear unsteady emission”, then her voice can never be heard above an orchestra, just like the modern pseudo-dramatic-sopranos. 2. Nilsson didn’t have the warmth and flexibility in her high notes. Despite the power, she lightened her voice too much and she couldn’t sing a high-lying passage in legato. Having the laser-beam-like quality isn’t everything. 3. “Coloratura” is a technique, not a fach description, “coloratura soprano” is the nickname of “leggero soprano”. And if you think Callas didn’t have a dramatic voice, then why was her timbre darker than Simionato the mezzo? One chorister said Callas’ voice was almost as dark as the contralto Cloe Elmo but she could still hit a high E. 4. Callas’ high E flat in Aida and this Medea high C outsized Tebaldi and Nilsson’s top notes but equaled to Flagstad and Ponselle’s. 5. The very basic thing in opera singing is “chiaroscuro”, and it describes Callas’ voice pretty well. Her voice was even darker than some mezzos but it’s far from woofy or fluffy. So I don’t think Callas’ vocal quality is “below all mentioned singers”. All of them had extraordinary vocal quality.

[@pebbie363]

@@BaroneVitellioScarpia1 tho its not nilsons best high c, the one at 8:38 is better than 9:50

[@dramaticsoprano5168]

@electricxcircus Do you think singers sound bigger in studio recordings? I’ve heard some people say the opposite. Not sure what I think.

[@eberlinpascal2837]

Ponselle est admirable mais elle transpose d'un ton dans sempre libera .

[@Pachinanonim]

Seria Genial si incluyeras a Tebaldi en otra parte, especialmente en su mejor momento.

[@dramaticsoprano5168]

I think some people might complain if I included her because she was pretty much 100% spinto color (and also Tebaldi seems to have a lot of anti-fans in general, not sure why..) Maybe for part 3 I will just say "Big sopranos" instead of "Dramatic sopranos".

[@Pachinanonim]

@@dramaticsoprano5168 Callas Fans o copias de "Opera my world" 😆

[@dramaticsoprano5168]

@Noack SomewhereI did not get the clip from a full broadcast, rather I just extracted it from this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/l5PHi3yqqd-ei6c (OperaMyWorld video) In the caption, the uploader says that B-flat is from 1957. I'm not sure if he is mistaken or if there was another broadcast that wasn't captured in full.

[@dramaticsoprano5168]

@Noack Somewhere I see, thank you for the correction.

[@babydrane]

@@dramaticsoprano5168 Exactly. I have nothing against her and it is indeed a big voice but more on the lirico-spinto end.

[@foropera]

The strange thing to me in Nilsson's Abigaille, apart from her huge high C, is that her Anch'io dischiuso is not well phrased, fluid, her voice doesn't express much, it's unpolished in the transitions from one note to another, not belcanto at all, a bit primitive musically. Her elephantesque voice is both a quality in heroic squared singing...and a handicap in the cantabile parts.

[@franzleiermann4955]

Also in the 1960 Leinsdorf DG as Donna Anna you will hear the same inbalance in the cantabile pieces. At the other hand, kind of sweet to hear a more vulnerable Nilsson.

[@pablodemarcos5379]

Gracias. Y Eva Marton ?

[@pablodemarcos5379]

@@beachfanatic2010 As Turandot ?

[@beachfanatic2010]

@@pablodemarcos5379 Eva Marton is naturally a lyric soprano who pushed her voice. But naturally was forcing!

[@pablodemarcos5379]

@@beachfanatic2010 Forcing in all in her (big and long) career with a lot of Turandot, all Wagner, and Fanciulla, Gioconda, Chenier, and heavy Verdi ? Stay in yr. opinion, but I don't agree. What about Leontyne ? And Verrett ? And Bumbry ?

[@beachfanatic2010]

@@pablodemarcos5379 She sang with an extremely damaged voice all of her career. Everybody knows that in the opera world. She had a lyric voice. Price was a light lyric. Bumbry was a lyric soprano and Verret was a real spinto on the lighter side.

[@mavoisine3]

I thought Netrebko would be in the mix.

[@dramaticsoprano5168]

Does she have a huge voice? I have never heard her live.

[@SleepingTurtle1]

@@dramaticsoprano5168 they're being sarcastic... She wrecked her voice singing dramatic rep that didn't fit it

[@toscadonna]

@@dramaticsoprano5168Netrebko’s voice is big but lacks squillo. It’s a pretty, velvety sound that has no business in spinto repertoire. I think she could’ve been much better had she kept singing like she did in her debut in “Ruslan and Liudmila,” because that was the right sound. Now the sound has been swallowed for decades and the cords ruined.

[@achmedmohamed4708]

At 08:23 Here comes the soprano Maria Kalogeropoulos who sounds old like her own old mother. I heared Birgit Nilsson very often. Also Jones and Dimitrova. II met Gina Cigna 1972 in Mondello Lido (Palermo).

[@Gabriel-hs9mv]

I’ve always heard Milanov as a spinto?

[@dramaticsoprano5168]

Yes probably, I've seen her even classified as lirico-spinto. But she was convincing in dramatic roles and was heavily requested after part 1 so I included her. Callas also likely wasn't a pure dramatic soprano. Maybe even Nilsson to some.

[@stevensmall6043]

Why no Sutherland?

[@davideferrari5702]

Ci sarebbe stata anche la Tebaldi che in quanto a volume ...non era da meno anzi...mah....

[@dramaticsoprano5168]

Tebaldi was probably ahead of many here.

[@robert111k]

The wobble was always there in Callas's voice. She was an artist, a _virtuoso_ singer and, maybe, a good actress (not for me, too histrionic, but I'm not a theater _connaisseur),_ but her sheer voice was ugly, unsteady and she tended to scream in the high notes. That's the honest truth.

[@191helen]

You are wrong … the wobble in Callas’ voice was not always there. You shouldn’t make such broad statements - go do your homework. Listen to her recordings both live and studio and you will find the wobble is mostly not there at all.

[@rugby8-Philadelphia]

​@Peter Surace I love Callas in general, however, the large "vibrato" has been much more of a problem than not. It eventually was so wide you could drive a truck through it 😊 It was evident in the early 1950s and just got worse. However, for everything she brought to the table as a whole, I (as most of her fans) just overlook it. .....but, denying it existed is silly 😎😎😎

[@SerafinGuerra-x8b]

you cant scream and do dinámica at the same time 🤦‍♂️

[@snoopenny]

There is not one singer today that sings this way, on the edge, with no safety net. I first attended opera at the Met in 1957 and heard the great post war singers and not one ever stinted in their tone (except Anna Moffo, who crooned). Ghena Dimitriva , Jessy Norman, Mirella Freni, Renata Scotto, and Fiorenza Cossotto and Aprile Millo were the last generous singers who sang on the edge.

[@rugby8-Philadelphia]

Croon? Lolol....um, no 😎😎😎

[@correasilvio2010]

Leyla Gencer