Which Forced Rotation Polisher Is BETTER? Harbor Freight Hercules vs. Flex XC 3401 VRG

[@danielhancock8817]

I've only used my Hercules a couple times but I did put the smaller backing plate that is available for the 3401 onto it so I can run 5" pads.

[@DrBeasleys]

Hi Neil, When FLEX and also Lake Country first introduced smaller backing plates, I used them at that time. They are a good option for running smaller pads for buffing thinner panels. I don't believe Lake Country makes the 4" backing plate and adapter any longer, but FLEX still offers their smaller backing plate. -Mike Phillips

[@Cab895]

THANK YOU. I was looking for this information. I hate the 6" backing plate on the hercules as its too large and difficult to work with, I will buy the smaller flex plate !

[@brianobrian6637]

Got too respect the honesty!!! Correct me if I'm wrong? I don't believe Mike has any deal w/H.f. I.e. He's not getting paid to say good or bad things about h.f. products. NO question a pro doing this daily the Hercules wouldn't be a top choice. The DIY type doing a few cars a year it's a decent option imo

[@josequiroz4605]

i have a harborfreight da that i bought 2019. it still going all i have done to it is replace the power switch because it went bad drom use. once replaced it works like a horse, this happend a month ago.

[@DrBeasleys]

Thanks for watching! -Mike Phillips

[@HPAcustomriflesandcerakote]

I run the Flex 3401, sometimes with a size smaller backing plate. I also run a Flex Kompakt 3 rotary which I like as well. Using pads from Lake Country as well as Shinemate are what give me the best results with longevity in their durability, which is something ive struggled with in pads from rupes, buff'n shine, as well as meguires

[@MikePhillips-Dr.Beasleys]

Right now, we are collecting a large spectrum of *buffing pads* from multiple companies and will be sharing a brand-new video on this topic. While abrasive technology is the most important factor when it comes to polishing paint, choosing and using the correct buffing pad that matches what you're trying to accomplish is also very important. Thank you for watching and commenting. -Mike Phillips

[@mlhm5]

IMO you cannot beat the long throw Bauer polisher and you can add a 5" Rupes backing plate with no mods (it vibrates less). I would buy the Rupes pads as well. I would change the Bauer long throw grease with lithium or Lucas Red and Tacky grease. Makes it quieter. $80 with no discounts.

[@mikephillipsrealworlddetailing]

I'm on the other side of the fence than you. The longer the stroke, the greater the chance for pad stalling as the outer edge of the buffing pad has MORE leverage over the spindle versus a short stroke polisher. Nothing wrong with this is you're not in a hurry or don't mind watching the backing plate and buffing pad for the entire time you're doing any paint correction steps to visually see if the pad you're using is actually rotating or has stalled-out. I call this Brain Drain. Of course, there's no issue with a gear-driven orbital when it comes to pad stalling. The good news is, there's so many great options when it comes to picking the polisher that's best for you and your style of detailing. Thank you for watching and commenting. -Mike Phillips

[@bogusienombre355]

Why haven't the term forced rotation been used more often? What is it?

[@mikephillipsrealworlddetailing]

Most people refer to these gear-driven orbital polishes as *Forced Rotation* but technically these people are all wrong. A *ROTARY POLISHER* is forced rotation. This means it spins a buffing pad in a single rotating direction. A gear-driven orbital is *FORCED ROTATION* and *FORCED OCILLATION* - 2 actions, not just 1 action. Don't know if that helps but over the last 10 or so years, I've never been able to fix the Internet. :) Thaks for watching and commenting. -Mike Phillips

[@Michael-t3b5b]

Since most of the parts for the Flex will fit the Hercules it’s easy to use Flex’s parts site to get some new parts. They also have a 5” backing plate available. And the felt ring he talks about and can replace the backing plate washer that he finds too small.

[@mikephillipsrealworlddetailing]

Thanks for watching and commenting, and "yes" I would replace the washer with an exact fit just to ensure maximum and EQUAL pressure over the contact are for attaching the backing plate to the spindle - BUT - that's just me and I tend to work these types of tool HARD and this means PUSHING on them hard once in a while to make them do what I need them to do - so yeah, simple fix, put on a better washer. -Mike Phillips

[@anonymousnoname]

Would you use a rotary or a dual action to correct single stage lacquer, and with a Lake Country low lint lambswool pad? I'm using 3D Speed polish.

[@MikePhillips-Dr.Beasleys]

Personally, I would use a free spinning random orbital polisher on single stage lacquer paint. Generally speaking, except when talking about single stage WHITE paint, black and other colors tend to be on the soft side in the context of SINGLE stage paint. Free spinning random orbital polishers, like a Porter Cable, Harber Freight 6" DA, Griot's Garage G9 and any brand of 15mm and 21mm polishers are ALL free spinning style. Gear-driven polishes like the FLEX BEAST, Supa BEAST, CBEAST, Harbor Freight Forced Rotation Dual Action Polisher and the Makita PO5000C, are all more powerful and it's this power that tends to make them not finish out as well as free spinning polishers do to the pad slippage. I buff out a LOT of single stage paint jobs. In fact, have a BLACK 1963 Studebaker Avanti in the shop right now that has single stage paint. Rotary polishers create amazing gloss but you always risk leaving behind holograms, be they visible or invisible. Hope that helps... thanks for watching and commenting. -Mike Phillips

[@dondeaton9797]

I have a 94 F150 that had letter and number stickers and the paint has faded over 10 years. Would this work to remover the sticker halo and might you suggest procedure to balance out the paint colors and ritalize?

[@mikephillipsrealworlddetailing]

To be honest, the answer is likely "no". The damage is under the clearcoat, so no amount of buffing will fix it. This is a common problem and it's called *_Ghosting_*. I deal with this a lot when teaching our boat detailing classes. Because I bring in boats that are older and in horrible condition, often times the factory brand name i.e. lettering is removed or so disintegrated that the boat owner tells me we can remove whatever's left. This leaves behind Ghosting. We start sanding these boats using 1000 Grit Mirka Abralon and finish out via dry sanding with 3000 grit and then start buffing, polishing and eventually applying a marine gelcoat ceramic coating. The Ghosting is *ALWAYS* visible. You can see an really good example if you scroll down this link until you get to the boat pictures. *500+ Photos from Mike Phillips’ 3-Day Auto Detailing Training Class (May 2024)* www.drbeasleys.com/blog/2024/05/17/500-pictures-showing-what-you-get-to-do-at-our-3-day-classes Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Thanks for watching and commenting. -Mike Phillips

[@orthodox1717]

I have used the 3401 extensively and even with a decent amount of pressure, the panel can heat up significantly. This is very risky.

[@DrBeasleys]

Just monitor surface temperature as you're buffing and if you feel the surface to be too warm, then stop buffing in this section and start buffing in a new section. To test for surface temperature, simply place your hand on the section of paint being buffed. If you can keep your hand there and continue to hold a conversation - that's a sign the paint is fine. If you JERK your hand away immediately, that's your body's *Fight or Flight* self-preservations instincts kicking in to keep you from harming your hand and at this point - stop buffing in this area. I've been using the BEAST since 2009, it was introduced in 2006, and I've NEVER had a problem with the tool, it's performance, the results I achieve and all my cars and boats come out looking great. Hope that helps... -Mike Phillips

[@danielbonner8309]

Very well done video. Thanks for sharing some knowledge.

[@neilwalker5041]

The Harbor Freight polisher will work great for a family who polishes their cars once a year or as a backup in case the beast breaks down. I think people either prefer a free spinning or forced rotation polisher. I hate seeing of the backing plate is spinning because all my forearms feel is the vibration. I use the Beast as it works on 90% of the jobs I see. I hope to see more fun videos from you and Yancy!

[@DrBeasleys]

Thanks for watching Neil! -Mike Phillips

[@I-sed-no]

Excellent video, thank you for the details. I just picked up HF's for $89 with a coupon yesterday. I'll be using it 2-3 times a month at the most and expecting it to last me a lifetime. If it doesn't I'll just plunk down another $100.

[@mikephillipsrealworlddetailing]

Thanks for watching and commenting. -Mike Phillips

[@PatriotsComing]

My thinking exactly. 😊

[@dfd4688]

I need to have the brushes replaced on one of my two 3401s where in CA might you recommend sending it for servicing? Comparing the beast to a free spinning DA is like comparing the difference between shooting a gun and throwing one. Thanks for the demo cheers

[@DrBeasleys]

Hi dfd4688 - I'm checking with FLEX to get their official recommendation as to where to send their tools for repair. I also think Chris Metcalf, (from FLEX), and I made a video showing how to replace the brushes yourself. If you like I can look for it? And I agree with you on comparing gear-driven orbitals with free spinning *random* orbital polishers - gear-driven orbitals simply never suffer from pad stalling. And this means, when using a gear-driven orbital polisher - you never have to endure Brain Drain. -Mike Phillips

[@DrBeasleys]

Hi dfd4688 - here's the link to Powerhouse Distributing - these folks are the official repair center for FLEX and SKILL tools. POWERHOUSE DISTRIBUTING *powerhousetoolparts.com/* And here's the link to a video Chris Metcalf and I made years ago, (with Yancy our our Video Guy), showing you how you can replace the brushes yourself. *kzbin.info/www/bejne/mYmaZoGaftGkrrc* -Mike Phillips

[@dfd4688]

@@DrBeasleys Thanks Mike, I found the video … the repair looks easy enough and I have a brush still in the box. Powerhouse is the company recommended if I should need assistance. Thanks again 🙏

[@manrex5238]

Mmmh for sure you get what you pay for.. and of corse Hercules is Chinese right? But.. we assume is going to fail way before the Flex but how do we know for sure? It’s not guaranteed because we haven’t tested longer enough…I hope is good I have been longing for the flex for a long time now but a haven’t been able to jump over the price of it…just hope is half the quantity of the German so that price of Hercules I can afford to buy it is within my reach

[@mikephillipsrealworlddetailing]

Sometimes the quality you're paying for is NOT on the outside, but on the inside. Something ALL FLEX tools have that copies don't is their 7-function microprocessor. No other polisher that I know of, be it an orbital or a rotary, has the 7-function microprocessor that comes from the factory in all FLEX polishers. The FLEX 7-function Microprocessor includes, 1: Provides constant speed control via the tachometer generator. 2: Provides a soft, gradual start of the rotation of the electric motor that powers the drive mechanism. 3: Controls the accelerator trigger switch. 4: Provides restart protection after a power interruption. 5: Provides overload protection. 6: Monitors the temperature of the coil windings and turns the polisher off before damage can occur. 7: Controls speed set by the variable speed dial. One of the most important functions is the heat sensor, which monitors tool temperature. If the tool becomes too hot, the 7-function microprocessor will turn the tool off so no damage can occur. Another key benefit to the 7-function microprocessor is the power interruption function. If power goes off to the tool, when power is restored, the tool will NOT turn back on until you release the speed trigger lock. This prevents the tool from turning on and possibly causing damage to a vehicle or a person. Thanks for watching and commenting. -Mike Phillips

[@manrex5238]

@@mikephillipsrealworlddetailing thank you for taking the time to answer back I appreciate it

[@aaronconklin5261]

Why do you still use corded polishers? I’m not trying to criticize I’m curious.

[@Steve0885]

The cordless eats up batteries

[@FasterBastard1]

In a detail shop environment really no benefit to using battery polishers. Mini polishers sure, but full size rotary or da’s eat batteries.

[@DrBeasleys]

First, thanks for watching Aaron. I'll give you my take. We use pretty much ALL FLEX cordless ROTARY polishers in our classes because they have all the power you need without having to mess with a cord. When it comes to orbital polishers, both gear-driven and free spinning random orbital polishers, the new RUPES cordless BigFoot 15 and 21 actually work pretty well for paint correction. Some of the other brands for these types of cordless tools also work pretty well. For me? If I'm going to use an orbital polisher, I will tend to use a corded orbital because I'm trying to go fast while keeping my quality high. If I have a new car in GREAT shape that is, no swirls, shallow swirls, soft to medium paint, then I'll use the CBEAST. But this is pretty rare. Another HUGE factor is detailing style. Some people are not in a hurry, and for these people, cordless tools are great. -Mike Phillips

[@DrBeasleys]

Thanks for watching Steve. I just took a count, we have at least 40 FLEX 5 AMP batteries that we use with our cordless FLEX PE-150 Rotary polishers and our CBEASTS. We mostly use the CBEASTS for machine sanding boats as these tools have MORE power than any corded D.A. sander or free spinning random orbital polisher. I have a charging station with 10 charges plugged-in and ready to use. I practice the discipline to take dead batteries and immediately put them on the chargers both when I'm detailing cars or when I'm teaching classes. This is the key, have more than 2 batteries and have the discipline to swap dead batteries into chargers and then you can make cordless tools work for you. At least quality cordless tools. -Mike Phillips

[@DrBeasleys]

Thanks for watching FasterBastard1 I agree with you. In a production shop, corded tools are generally the way to go. Me? I LOVE the cordless FLEX PE-150 Rotary Polisher. I've been using the prototype FLEX sent me since 2017 and NEVER had a problem with performance. But that's just me and my buffing style. Again, thanks for watching! -Mike Phillips

[@404notfound.....]

I bought the original flex 3401. And ya right mike. U get heat treated gears and probably forged as opposed to the cheap chinese gears.

[@DrBeasleys]

I've toured the FLEX facility in Germany twice. I've toured the RUPES facility in Milan, Italy once as a guest speaker for RUPES. So I've been to both of these great companies manufacturing plants and taken pictures and written articles for all my tours of these manufacturing plants, (they are on the AutogeekOnline.net forum), and my pictures document both companies using nothing but the highest quality materials in their tools. -Mike Phillips

[@Gidenkidenk]

I can get a Hercules for 25% of the price, with a 3 year protection plan

[@mikephillipsrealworlddetailing]

@@Gidenkidenk - Killer deal. My comments As a long-time user of all the FLEX 8mm gear-driven orbital polishers, I have to say, I was impressed with this inexpensive knock-off of the FLEX XC 3401 VRG also known as the BEAST. I expected it to be inferior in every way, but I was wrong. It’s smooth, quiet and powerful. It’s a pretty exact clone of the BEAST but there are a few places they cut corners. 1: The backing plate bolt and two washers, one flat and one locking are sub-standard in quality but could easily be replaced with better components. 2: The Harbor Freight Forced Rotation Dual Action Polisher does not offer the 7-function microprocessor that comes standard with all FLEX polishers. The FLEX 7-function Microprocessor includes, 1: Provides constant speed control via the tachometer generator. 2: Provides a soft, gradual start of the rotation of the electric motor that powers the drive mechanism. 3: Controls the accelerator trigger switch. 4: Provides restart protection after a power interruption. 5: Provides overload protection. 6: Monitors the temperature of the coil windings and turns the polisher off before damage can occur. 7: Controls speed set by the variable speed dial. One of the most important functions is the heat sensor, which monitors tool temperature. If the tool becomes too hot, the 7-function microprocessor will turn the tool off so no damage can occur. Another key benefit to the 7-function microprocessor is the power interruption function. If power goes off to the tool, when power is restored, the tool will NOT turn back on until you release the speed trigger lock. This prevents the tool from turning on and possibly causing damage to a vehicle or a person. The Harbor Freight version of the BEAST has none of these features. Besides that, this tool works as advertised. So they look alike but you get more built-in features with the FLEX. And I always recommend to people that purchase power tools from Harbor Freight to get the extended warranty - just in case. Thanks for watching and commenting! -Mike Phillips

[@Gidenkidenk]

@@mikephillipsrealworlddetailing for my needs, which would be maybe 1 or 2 personal cars a year with a one step polish, I think it will be perfect. They hit right in the market for someone who wants to just start out or use rarely and not have to spend the same amount in tools that it would cost to have someone else do the job

[@mikephillipsrealworlddetailing]

@@Gidenkidenk - I agree. It's a great tool at a great price point. Thanks for watching and commenting! -Mike Phillips

[@btbd2785]

Why do they make the gears put of plastic? The price you pay for a "German" high quality machine , they could have least make then out of metal. I can see the Hercules being made off plastic because of cost, but Flex too?

[@DrBeasleys]

Who says the gears in FLEX tools are plastic? When I toured the manufacturing facility in Germany, (twice), the gears were stainless steel. Can you cite a source? Even if they are plastic, I like to assume an engineer at FLEX knows best, not me a detailer, and if they have a type of plastic that is of such high quality it can be used to replace stainless steel gears without compromising quality - then I say let the FLEX engineers do their job and I'll do my job. -Mike Phillips

[@btbd2785]

sorry, the gearset on the back of the backing plate is what I was referring to.

[@mikephillipsrealworlddetailing]

@@btbd2785 - Gotcha. My guess is the ENGINEERS know their job, kind of like we both know our jobs. I've been using the BEAST polisher since 2009 and I've NEVER seen the plastic gears break or wear-out. Never. -Mike Phillips

[@JTBlair-nw6gb]

I heard Mike takes his leg off and works at IHOP when he's not detailing. 😅

[@mikephillipsrealworlddetailing]

Ha ha - You funny. On a serious note, IHOP is a great place to get pancakes and eggs! Thanks for watching and commenting -Mike Phillips

[@Steve0885]

Nothing wrong with the Hercules. Who wants to spend all that money on a band name? 😅

[@DrBeasleys]

Thanks for watching Steve. The great thing about living in America as we can each choose how to spend our money. One thing I learned from my friend Juan at the geek, *"Never spend another man's money"*, which means, let each person make their own mind up on the best value in their opinion. -Mike Phillips

[@danlc95]

I should name my band Flex!

[@GSP-76]

I know someone who uses the Hercules and does detailing professionally. He says people who are pushing expensive products probably have ulterior motives. Harbor Freight tools have proven to be highly reliable and every bit as good brands costing 3-4x as much. The stigma of cheaply built Chinese products in the 80s no longer holds up.

[@mikephillipsrealworlddetailing]

​@@GSP-76 - Hey GSP-76 - thank you for watching and commenting. While the HF version of the BEAST looks the same on the outside except for color, you get what you pay for, and you don't get what you're not paying for. What do I mean? As a long-time user of all the FLEX 8mm gear-driven orbital polishers, I have to say, I was impressed with this inexpensive knock-off of the FLEX XC 3401 VRG also known as the BEAST. I expected it to be inferior in every way, but I was wrong. It’s smooth, quiet and powerful. It’s a pretty exact clone of the BEAST but there are a few places they cut corners. 1: The backing plate bolt and two washers, one flat and one locking are sub-standard in quality but could easily be replaced with better components. 2: The Harbor Freight Forced Rotation Dual Action Polisher does not offer the 7-function microprocessor that comes standard with all FLEX polishers. The FLEX 7-function Microprocessor includes, 1: Provides constant speed control via the tachometer generator. 2: Provides a soft, gradual start of the rotation of the electric motor that powers the drive mechanism. 3: Controls the accelerator trigger switch. 4: Provides restart protection after a power interruption. 5: Provides overload protection. 6: Monitors the temperature of the coil windings and turns the polisher off before damage can occur. 7: Controls speed set by the variable speed dial. One of the most important functions is the heat sensor, which monitors tool temperature. If the tool becomes too hot, the 7-function microprocessor will turn the tool off so no damage can occur. Another key benefit to the 7-function microprocessor is the power interruption function. If power goes off to the tool, when power is restored, the tool will NOT turn back on until you release the speed trigger lock. This prevents the tool from turning on and possibly causing damage to a vehicle or a person. The Harbor Freight version of the BEAST has none of these features. Besides that, this tool works as advertised. Again, thanks for watching and commenting and I ALWAYS recommend to purchase and use the tool that fits your budget and your style of detailing. -Mike Phillips

[@GSP-76]

@@mikephillipsrealworlddetailing I haven't used the Flex but I have no doubt it's probably a better polisher...what I meant to convey is that cheaper tools like the Hercules aren't bad, unreliable, etc. They used to be though but quality of mass produced Chinese tools has really improved over the years.