Abloy PL 362

  Рет қаралды 61,291

DreamExcessive

DreamExcessive

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер
@AlejandroBelloRD
@AlejandroBelloRD 7 жыл бұрын
You had a Master lock? You just went from a Yugo to a Bugatti-level padlock. There's no comparison in any level
@ludvigfrestadius8653
@ludvigfrestadius8653 7 жыл бұрын
I've heard that Abloy PL362 and Nokia 3310 are good friends :D
@TheGeezzer
@TheGeezzer 5 жыл бұрын
Haha, hey thats actually quite an original and funny comment that made me chuckle, 10 out of 10 for that! 😄💨✨💨💯
@ComputerLearning0
@ComputerLearning0 9 жыл бұрын
Looks very expensive but Abloy is the best.
@dutch_blades
@dutch_blades 6 жыл бұрын
I never thought I'd feel bad for a Master lock... But there he stands... Next to a level of security he won't achieve in a million years of R&D :') You have no idea how big of an upgrade you have made; well done! The 362 is a piece of locking art.
@TheGeezzer
@TheGeezzer 5 жыл бұрын
"...the 362 is a piece of locking art..." This axiom is poetry in itself, Abloy should engrave this into the locks with your name humbly etched under it.💯🔆✨
@stonehill12385
@stonehill12385 11 жыл бұрын
I live in Finland (I'm American but GF is Finnish) and all they use and sell here are ABLOY. Nothing else!
@Kyosti5000
@Kyosti5000 4 жыл бұрын
Sure they sell other brands as well, but they are not as common.
@fall22123
@fall22123 9 жыл бұрын
To me, it is nothing to spend $250 on a padlock to secure something worth $10,000 or more. It's just common sense.
@timothyavendt677
@timothyavendt677 6 жыл бұрын
fall22123 Especially when it can potentially outlast you.
@JamesPhillipsOfficial
@JamesPhillipsOfficial 6 жыл бұрын
Angle Grinders don't care how much you spend on your locks
@TheGeezzer
@TheGeezzer 5 жыл бұрын
@@JamesPhillipsOfficial I know the comment is like 8 months old but you hit a nerve, I cringed in a twisted...abject pain, Thank you I hope you're happy! Angle grinders are the deep-seated natural enemy, the scourge of the padlock and will cut through a Boron Carbide shackle in 10 to 20 seconds depending on thickness. No padlock on Gods Earth can withstand the ferocious cutting power, the brutal awesomeness of an angle grinder or even worse...die grinder! I have an Abloy PL362 and I love it, its a solid engineered metal-worked item of pure Object D'art (objay-dar) and the mention of...an...an...ang...ang...angl..angle grinder...brings me to dispair, it saddens me. Dreams now become mere delusions of engineering grandiose, delusions of hard impregnable grandeur, yes yes yes, dammit they morph to become a fart! Next to an oxy-acetylene torch, the angle grinder dominates with terror every padlock ever created. Please go now, leave me, leave me.💥😣😑😔💨💀
@tommytimetelevision3316
@tommytimetelevision3316 8 жыл бұрын
Beautiful Lock. What a fine peace of machinery.
@raksori
@raksori 7 жыл бұрын
I have watched this video at least 10 times now, so fun to watch while drunk
@vervalkon
@vervalkon 11 жыл бұрын
Truly a beautiful and secure lock! Each Abloy is manufactured in Finland unless its patent has expired. Also worth noting that if you lose your key card and the key, you cannot open the lock pretty much ever again.
@danr146
@danr146 10 жыл бұрын
Glad you aren't using that MasterLock to lock up your motor bike anymore, I have the same one and it is quite easy to pick quickly!!
@gunnerlloyd6468
@gunnerlloyd6468 8 жыл бұрын
master locks can be picked in like 2 seconds
@64akon
@64akon 10 жыл бұрын
that is very a dream Excessive and nice upgrade cheap master to world's best padlock
@Nitrxgen
@Nitrxgen 8 жыл бұрын
Some padlock information: With enough time, anything can be opened with an angle gringer, this lock is no exception. You can only hope the bigger and stronger your lock is, the longer it'll take the attacker to bypass to a point where they simply don't bother, particularly in areas guaranteed to gain witnesses. Because it's a double ball bearing-secured shackle, it's impossible to shim the lock open. On padlocks that snap shut (without the key) they have slanted latches in the shackle holes that slide back into the padlock body when the shackle gets pushed down and then hold onto the shackle to lock it. Shimming is sliding something strong and thin into the gap between the shackle and lock body to push that slanted latch back and releasing the shackle from that slanted latch allowing the padlock to be opened. Because the PL362 is a double ball bearing lock, the ball bearings are actuated by the lock core as it rotates either open or closed and this is why the lock retains the key while open, to be able to turn it to lock it again... which adds the extra feature, in my opinion, that you can never leave them unlocked by accident. To order one of these locks online from the UK with the latest Protec2 key system will cost you a tad over £200 what with VAT and shipping.
@Nitrxgen
@Nitrxgen 8 жыл бұрын
Also if anybody is worried about that very obvious cover that's sitting under the shackle: Yes, that cover is what secures the core (the cylinder what the key operates). That cover is secured with a grub screw which can be accessed by a small hole on the side of the body of the lock (viewable at 4:24). The lock must be unlocked with the shackle pulled out in order to access that grub screw. Even if you attempt to drill through the steel body, the 15mm hardened stainless steel shackle, to the grub screw which you probably just destroyed, you will still need to remove that cover under the shackle [also behind the chains, or hasp] then you'll have a difficult time. You'll need to try and cut the 15mm hardened shackle in 2 places to get anywhere with this thing, and the shoulders protecting the shackle will come into place. These padlocks have interchangeable cores to allow Abloy custom orders such as choice of key system, keyed alike systems, or master keying systems. They're not your typical off-the-shelf cheapass padlocks.
@noblelies
@noblelies 8 жыл бұрын
I bought this lock after I saw a crazy Japanese video of engineers testing it with everything from a grinder to firearms. This lock withstood a .40 caliber bullet being shot at it. That's good enough for me. ;)
@ludvigfrestadius8653
@ludvigfrestadius8653 7 жыл бұрын
But it can still be a problem, as most angle grinders need a power outlet. And because lock can move around a bit, it will vibrate as the angle grinder hits it, making the angle grinder knocked away from it. So you have to hold onto the lock which is really dangerous and risky.
@phils7411
@phils7411 9 жыл бұрын
Good one,, the whole idea is to persuade the thief to move on....probably to an easier target...that lock would make most think twice
@josef596
@josef596 6 жыл бұрын
You could pick that master lock in a few seconds. It doesn’t matter how big it is.
@elguinolo7358
@elguinolo7358 4 жыл бұрын
It's not a Master Lock, it's an Abloy.
@aivanvallaton
@aivanvallaton 12 жыл бұрын
It is really nice that you are showing the key. It is easy to "read" the key and make a copy. ;)
@riippumatonlinja
@riippumatonlinja 4 жыл бұрын
It have 4 sides needed to clone, and other that older lock types, you cannot read and make just copy because there is no bases to make one, and even locksmiths cannot make one without base to build one. And also even you read, doesnt mean you can translate it safety code, because its also hidden in abloys use only until 20xx.
@applespiderx
@applespiderx 5 жыл бұрын
thank you for this video.. could you please add links to the chain and the lock to the description? or just send them my way :)
@mange2
@mange2 9 жыл бұрын
Ive seen these locks on ebay really cheap. I wondered how they can sell a £200 lock for £50. Some people say that its the going rate for them on ebay. However, I have looked closely at the photos and if you look on the abloy website, the writing and numbers on the locks seem to be quite heavily engraved into the lock. The ones on ebay seem to be barely scratched into the surface, suggesting they may not be genuine Abloy locks. Can anyone confirm this observation?
@Nitrxgen
@Nitrxgen 8 жыл бұрын
I think to spot a fake Abloy padlock would be pretty easy but I've not seen any. If you are talking specifically about the PL362 with its chrome-plated stainless steel lock body then you will typically find that the text on the body will look heavily engraved but they're not engraved at all. I believe it's done with some kind of chemical etching. The light can make it look either heavily engraved or near invisible because there's no shadows cast in the text because it's not engraved. These locks can sell relatively cheap from some sellers and I bet you they don't sell the factory code card with it. Because the lock and key system is patented for another 8 years or something, to get an extra key cut requires an authorised locksmith, with the equipment, to cut you a key according to the code on the factory card as proof you certainly own the lock and key and not some guy who's borrowing someone's key hoping to get a copy without him knowing. Those locks sell for cheap because they've more than likely lost the factory key card that came with the lock and can no longer have extra keys cut; so if you lose your keys, that's it, you're fucked, you'll need to destroy the padlock to bypass it.
@SLOPPYASSBASTARD
@SLOPPYASSBASTARD 12 жыл бұрын
Abloy padlocks. As used by the British Army to lock their weapons up. Going to try and 'acquire' one for my bike!
@rooflz
@rooflz 13 жыл бұрын
FYI.. Also, most ship yards carry case hardened chains up to this size and MUCH larger for a much cheaper price then an almax.. Don't get me wrong their chains are nice, but the price is simple astronomical with shipping. There are a buch of american manufacturer's making QUALITY chains, they just have little to no commercial market thus your not seeing them. The company I posted in another comment was great to deal with and I received my chain in 2 days.
@jonstone9741
@jonstone9741 7 жыл бұрын
Did you mention the price of the lock? Also, did you mention the brand and model of the big chain you showed briefly at the end of the video?
@fiftyfive5459
@fiftyfive5459 8 жыл бұрын
Legendary padlock.
@rerairelandpicker9714
@rerairelandpicker9714 3 жыл бұрын
Very cool lock
@ROREAX
@ROREAX 8 жыл бұрын
I just purchased one of these PL326 locks with a Pewag 3/8, 62 HRC hardened steel chain to protect my motorcycle. That said, I keep reading comments of people saying these can "easily" be defeated with an angle grinder - does anyone have any proof of an abloy protec2 pl362 going under an angle grinder and being defeated? Can angle grinders go through all types of hardened steel? Just curious if anyone experienced in this area can shed some light on this subject, I'd like to know how long it would theoretically take to get through this 15mm shackle or the hardened steel chain.
@addicted2baseballrgd21
@addicted2baseballrgd21 7 жыл бұрын
Ambro Yes it can, but the majority of thief's don't use angle grinders, they use bolt cutters (except London) . Also the sparks, and noise create a large signature. So if they did use an angle grinder, someone would call the police. having said that, I look at other motorcycle security that people employ in Southern California, where I live. It seems like nobody uses a locking device, besides the steering lock, over here besides me. So why would they go after me. I don't know how it is in your neighborhood, but if you have that system, the thief will move on.
@atklm1
@atklm1 7 жыл бұрын
Angle grinder goes through any material known to man. It's just a question of time.
@bryanslocks3481
@bryanslocks3481 7 жыл бұрын
Rex exactly
@crackerms0100
@crackerms0100 13 жыл бұрын
Did you get that from Securitysnobs with the ruby exclusive keyway, because the key looks just like mine.
@jasoncraig136
@jasoncraig136 5 жыл бұрын
What is the size of the chain? Does the lock hold both ends or does the chain loop over itself?
@iadis85
@iadis85 5 жыл бұрын
I am about to buy the PL362...does it fit with pewag chain - 14mm link?
@tommytimetelevision3316
@tommytimetelevision3316 8 жыл бұрын
Can bolt cutters or a angle grinder get threw that ? I've seen the abloy 340 opened with bolt cutters - but the 340 is one of the thinest shackles
@bface8158
@bface8158 14 жыл бұрын
I also have the Almax IV, which came with the standard Squire CS65 lock. As the padlock seems to be the weakest link in my combo I was looking to upgrade. Thus, I went on the internet and managed to narrow it down to Abloy PL362 and Mul-T-Lock E-18H. You mention in UR vid, that U were going for Mul-T-Lock, but then decided against it. Could you please advise what exactly prompted you purchase Abloy instead of the Mul-T-Lock (the latter one seems to be even more of a bad boy). Many thanks in adv
@goodboyringo9716
@goodboyringo9716 7 жыл бұрын
Where did you buy the lock from?
@scottfarnetti103
@scottfarnetti103 4 жыл бұрын
Could you send the chain make too please?
@threepot5874
@threepot5874 7 жыл бұрын
That combined with an Almax chain..
@AdrianWeber
@AdrianWeber 13 жыл бұрын
Mother of god! Where the hell can I buy this chain??? I need to know! Greetings from Germany mate!
@chriscowally
@chriscowally 10 жыл бұрын
Yeah they are very good locks I have 4 in total a small 2 medium and a large 3 of them keyed a like
@BG-il2ym
@BG-il2ym 11 жыл бұрын
I was just about to reply and say you need to make sure you've got a good chain, i.e. Abus 14KS....but it looks like you've got something even bigger ! Good luck keeping those thieves away !
@RobCrawford23
@RobCrawford23 12 жыл бұрын
On the case of this Abloy there are only theoretical methods of opening this lock, it's never actually been done (which is quite an achievement) It's a cutting job to get that lock off without a key (currently)
@Shieldskins
@Shieldskins 11 жыл бұрын
Ya Abloy padlocks are great, they are all I use. If someone can get past it they deserve to have whatever your locking up haha
@milwaukeechicagoareatrains8451
@milwaukeechicagoareatrains8451 9 жыл бұрын
These locks are really nice. But keep in mind that they aren't indestructible. Is the Abloy "PL 362" Boltcutter proof? Probably. But I do have a small tool that can go through this lock in about a minute or so. (Give or take a few seconds) But the better lock that you have, the more of a deterrent it is. But usually what ends up happening, is that once you get over a certain size, what ever you are protecting is usually what becomes the target. It usually is easier to go through the crate, or locker, or hasp than it is the lock. A decent larger sized Master Lock or American Lock will almost always provide enough protection since a good crowbar will usually break most hasps. And a basic pair of Bolt cutters will slice through most chains easier than a lock with a hardened shackle. Most thieves don't try to pick locks. It's easier and faster to use bolt cutters and crow bars to get in and out quickly. Especially if that lock has been in the elements for a long time. The pins may become sticky and thus harder to pick. And especially to bump.
@FalenAnjel2
@FalenAnjel2 9 жыл бұрын
You can buy a bigger chain then that, go to a boat/ ship yard or store and get an anchor chain. See if anyone can cut through that without much racket.
@johnthomas338
@johnthomas338 8 жыл бұрын
It's "bigger THAN", American idiot...
@CarlosDangerTheThird
@CarlosDangerTheThird 8 жыл бұрын
He's Canadian
@RMBx22
@RMBx22 4 жыл бұрын
@@johnthomas338 yeah....Moron
@Mi-rs1vl
@Mi-rs1vl 7 жыл бұрын
Thanks for showing the key. Now we can reproduce the key. :)
@n8ryder
@n8ryder 12 жыл бұрын
Nope, There are anti drill discs that are hardened and simply spin with your drill bit. The only way you'll get into that is an angle grinder to cut the shackle. Depending on the orientation you may have to cut the shroud too. Nothings unbeatable but this will certainly waste of lot of time getting in and the perp will make a hell of a lot of noise and sparks to do it
@Vylkeer
@Vylkeer 5 жыл бұрын
Sadly it has been proven pickable but it’s still probably the hardest lock to pick and the most resistant overall. The Protec2 core can be picked by a very small number of people and requires rare and specific tools.
@doooofus
@doooofus 2 жыл бұрын
shoutout to huxleypig lol, took him like 15 mins with his own proprietary tool tho and hes basically a god. safe to assume no street urchin will be getting at your stuff via picking with this lock, but yes still worth being aware of the fact its technically possible imo
@Vylkeer
@Vylkeer 2 ай бұрын
@@doooofus Yeah, I mean, there's no pick-proof lock. This lock though will give a very hard time to anyone who tries to pick it. Plus, I think it's impossible to get it open with brute-force attacks like hammering, shimming, drilling etc ... and even cutting is going to be difficult. So yeah, this is about the best you can possibly get.
@You-Toober
@You-Toober 12 жыл бұрын
"....who the hell would pay over 200 bucks for a padlock?" Well it depends on what you're trying to protect. If i have something valuable, like a $20k plus motorcycle, i will buy a $200 dollar padlock. I been through the situation where you see an empty space where your motorcycle used to be. Better safe than sorry. And i believe any pro thief, with the right tools and time can pick ANY lock, even the one shown, but at least you're trying to protect and deter thieves with something strong.
@riippumatonlinja
@riippumatonlinja 4 жыл бұрын
Its theoreticly possible to pick that lock, but first, it have 4 diffirent sides when normal locks have one row, so you need to pick 4 rows at same time. And there is more than that. Easier is thief have hydraulic cutter, but you need big, LOUD fireman sized weapon to cut that kind of steel and it alarms people. Good protection to buyer.
@TheGtspider
@TheGtspider 10 жыл бұрын
How many keys do you get with the Abloy PL 362 ? and can you buy spare keys ? Ta Graham Tarling
@Whenclownsattack888
@Whenclownsattack888 10 жыл бұрын
It comes with 2 keys and yes you can buy spare keys although it is rather expensive. This website has the price set at $10 a key and the lock is $265 but if this lock can't be cut then I'd say its worth every penny if its protecting something as expensive as a motorcycle.
@goatman86
@goatman86 12 жыл бұрын
yes you are right. now thieves will only have to find him and a motorbike he chained with this padlock. super easy :)
@777-ER
@777-ER 4 жыл бұрын
You picked a beautiful lock......I to have a padlock fetish!....❤️👍
@lander77477
@lander77477 2 жыл бұрын
me too, it started for me when i was about 16 or so in 1999 when I bought a giant master lock at home depot, it was way bigger than the other ones and i thought it looked really cool, just kept it around as a toy, or a fidget gadget
@anythinguploads2161
@anythinguploads2161 5 жыл бұрын
Great video. Has anyone seen this lock that are fake online?
@olinellngbuk1871
@olinellngbuk1871 3 жыл бұрын
I think there is no fake abloy was produced or being made.
@rodrigodetriano8273
@rodrigodetriano8273 7 жыл бұрын
Only as good as the chain, if your protecting your motorbike
@ihkonparas
@ihkonparas 13 жыл бұрын
Made In Finland, did i hear right?
@mypkaaa
@mypkaaa 14 жыл бұрын
best lock
@MrHiram30
@MrHiram30 7 жыл бұрын
Not enough shackle protection, not at least as the Sargent & Greenleaf padlocks (shackle is hidden on those).
@jackkaye5787
@jackkaye5787 7 жыл бұрын
will get hidden by the chain links going through it
@ludvigfrestadius8653
@ludvigfrestadius8653 7 жыл бұрын
It can still be picked. No one has ever picked an Abloy. Only the classic which didn't have false gates i think.
@Xguy890
@Xguy890 8 жыл бұрын
uze the angle grinder on thee Abloy 362PL
@RMBx22
@RMBx22 4 жыл бұрын
@phục êwê 10 mm to the face. Best security 👌
@rooflz
@rooflz 13 жыл бұрын
Best lock, definitely not the best chain ;) I sourced an american manufacturer and will be making a video soon. Great chain, but you paid a premium for it.
@doooofus
@doooofus 2 жыл бұрын
"so, im gonna use this lock... on... a chain" *drags out the fattest anaconda of a chain you ever saw* lol. what's the chain thickness tho? i got a 16mm i guess if thats the largest u could find its probably 22 or 25mm??
@doooofus
@doooofus 2 жыл бұрын
nvm it was in the other vid on ur channel lol, 19mm
@mohidulislam1729
@mohidulislam1729 7 жыл бұрын
good
@MegaJoojee
@MegaJoojee 11 жыл бұрын
hahaha with that lock the the chains will stay together but where you find strong enough chain?
@luc1ferblack
@luc1ferblack 10 жыл бұрын
19mm almax
@OperationFoxley19441
@OperationFoxley19441 9 жыл бұрын
Jason Leo 19mm Almax and Abloy 362 are the perfect combo to stop the thieves, I have both!!
@SpeedDaemon3
@SpeedDaemon3 12 жыл бұрын
If I'd be the thief and I'd see a 362 I would just cut the byke.
@creamyfilling102
@creamyfilling102 13 жыл бұрын
i'm sure it's a fantastic lock, but who the hell would pay over 200 bucks for a padlock?
@olinellngbuk1871
@olinellngbuk1871 3 жыл бұрын
Thats a cheap compared to stole your thousand dollar bikes.
@tarehjernetarehjerne4082
@tarehjernetarehjerne4082 3 жыл бұрын
Protec is not pick proof, let alone pick resistant
@lander77477
@lander77477 2 жыл бұрын
I think you said that statement backwards. You mean to say, protec is not pick resistant, let alone pick proof. Its like saying, I cannot get to point A, let alone point B
@123minder
@123minder 13 жыл бұрын
Masterlock lol
@TheGeezzer
@TheGeezzer 5 жыл бұрын
Shit, you used a Masterlock to secure a bike! Not a motorcycle I trust! Masterlock (that can be picked clean with a teaspoon) are a farty-pants budget "lock" company who basically make 💩 that is only suitable for childrens toy cupboards or library stock rooms. The Abloy PL362 on the other "golden" hand is suitable for locking the hatch on a Challenger tank or securing the Crown Jewels. Man you been lucky all those times, so damn lucky.🙃💨😜💨😑
@TheGeezzer
@TheGeezzer 5 жыл бұрын
If I may add here: Notice how silky smooth the Abloy is when you open and close it, its like all the workings are floating on a cushion of enchanted air. Shiny soft mulberry silk in an armoured iron glove! You always get what you pay for.😻💨🏆
@huxleypig69
@huxleypig69 10 жыл бұрын
This lock is NOT unpickable! I have videos of me picking its smaller brother but I guarantee you, the Protec/Protec 2/Sentry/Novell are all pickable. There has not yet been a lock that cannot be picked, or opened surreptitiously.
@solucionestecnologicas6844
@solucionestecnologicas6844 9 жыл бұрын
You picked the a lot Classic not the protect 2 lock
@huxleypig69
@huxleypig69 9 жыл бұрын
Soluciones Tecnologicas Yes, the videos are of Abloy Classic. But all of the Abloy family are pickable, or can be opened surreptitiously.
@Boerje69
@Boerje69 9 жыл бұрын
+huxleypig69 Is there a legit picking vid of the Protec/protec2?
@huxleypig69
@huxleypig69 9 жыл бұрын
+Boerje69 I think so, yes. Maybe not publicly on YT.
@huxleypig69
@huxleypig69 9 жыл бұрын
+Adam Zupancic Which Abloy mechanism did you say had 16 billion differs again? That's a big number, I think you are mistaken. The Protec only has 2 billion. The number of differs makes no difference (pun intended). The Master locks you say can be raked in half a second will have a high number of differs too. Picking is not a brute force attack. The model of Abloy padlock housing makes no difference, the mechanism is what counts. And so I can guarantee you that I CAN pick an Abloy 340, given the right Abloy mechanism inside. As I previously said, I have 2 videos showing this. There are others too.
@rerairelandpicker9714
@rerairelandpicker9714 3 жыл бұрын
Old chubb lock
@mr.saturdayknight403
@mr.saturdayknight403 8 жыл бұрын
If anything, the chain is weaker than the lock
@FoodOnCrack
@FoodOnCrack 8 жыл бұрын
because most people use chains that they cut on size from the hardware store. Those aren't security chains by any means. They are often stainless instead of hardened. You can only buy hardened steel chains on size.
@RyanLackey
@RyanLackey 10 жыл бұрын
By posting clear footage of the key, an attacker can 3d print (or otherwise machinel) a duplicate of your key, FYI. The protec is essentially unpicked, but keys can be duplicated.
@richlimme
@richlimme 10 жыл бұрын
not true with the protec core 2. essentially, the key has a moving piece that makes 3d printing impossible. Thats what they say.
@huxleypig6982
@huxleypig6982 10 жыл бұрын
This lock is NOT unpickable! I have videos of me picking its smaller brother but I guarantee you, the Protec/Protec 2/Sentry/Novell are all pickable. There has not yet been a lock that cannot be picked, or opened surreptitiously. /V-B1YHKz9Nk
@Atheistic007
@Atheistic007 9 жыл бұрын
+huxleypig69 A link to a clear HD video of you picking an Abloy Protek would be nice.
@OperationFoxley19441
@OperationFoxley19441 9 жыл бұрын
+huxleypig69 I wanna see you pick this!!!!! LOL
@huxleypig6982
@huxleypig6982 9 жыл бұрын
+Daniel Flather I said I could pick its smaller brother, the Abloy Classic, Classic High Profile and Disklock Pro. I do not have the tools to open a protec but it can be done I assure you.
@huxleypig6982
@huxleypig6982 8 жыл бұрын
Ha, so would a million Dollars! Not gonna happen, sorry. But believe whatever you like.
@huxleypig6982
@huxleypig6982 8 жыл бұрын
How badly?
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