Dreaming Spanish vs Refold Method

[@bart3872]

you explained how both methods work while staying under 10minutes, love that

[@DoomscrollToFluency]

Thank you! I'm glad it was helpful!

[@hamartia_theorist]

I feel like the mix of these approaches works the best for me. Sometimes I feel like watching native level content or studying grammar, sometimes I want to relax and just follow along easy slow Spanish. Nice video!

[@DoomscrollToFluency]

That's another great point. It doesn't need to be one or the other. I mostly focused on easy CI content but would occasionally just watch a movie that was way above my level or youtube videos that were difficult. It's fun to switch it up from time to time.

[@jeffreybarker357]

The real secret is just doing both of these. I use Dreaming Spanish every single day (1,400 hours right now) and supplement with the ES1K deck from Refold and I read. These two are made for one another.

[@DoomscrollToFluency]

This is basically how I approached it too!

[@ahmetselimkaygn5607]

​@@DoomscrollToFluency but dont they claim that studying useless and kills the natural acquiring and makes you a translator instead of nativelike

[@breadshovel]

@@ahmetselimkaygn5607 thats one of their..... more controversial claims......

[@breadshovel]

@@ahmetselimkaygn5607 and i say this as a fellow inputter myself

[@joachimjustinmorgan4851]

@@ahmetselimkaygn5607yeah, that’s what they believe. Just because they believe that does not mean that you have to believe it too. Their materials and method is great. I think that you are slowing your progress down by exclusively getting input and not reading or trying to speak. Their claim that it’s natural is also completely false. Children begin attempting to speak as soon as they can make noise.

[@gavinstuart3446]

I've done 300 hours of DS and it is pretty amazing and takes some trust. Dreaming spanish does work, as you hear common words so many times and will inevitably start to pick up the meaning and it will click what that words means. It can be hard to maintain focus due to some of the content being very dry due to them trying to keep it simple. I love the DS website as you can also track / add your hours that you do outside the platform from youtube or podcasts

[@DoomscrollToFluency]

Trust is absolutely key! Especially because DS requires you to sort of unlearn everything you were taught about language learning. I remember being really skeptical until I started thinking of how to say things in Spanish, googling them, and realizing they were right even though I didn't even remember 'learning' that word! It was awesome. And yes, the Dreaming Spanish website is such a fantastic tool that provides everything you need to learn Spanish in one.

[@xexling]

My perspective is a little different. I have a solid foundation of grammar and vocabulary but still had the habit of translating in my head which inhibits my conversational skills. A video on KZbin recommended comprehensible input as a solution to this problem. I have no idea the why but watching the DS videos has greatly improved my conversational skills. I hear the Spanish and I respond in Spanish without the stop off at English in both directions. Even though they speak slower than normal, it helps me process faster Speakers.

[@DoomscrollToFluency]

That's awesome! I'm happy DS is working for you.

[@EllenMadono]

I never heard of these before. I appreciate your balance and informed description.

[@DoomscrollToFluency]

@@EllenMadono I’m glad it could be helpful!

[@michaelsager5688]

I use both sites for my language learning journey. Dreaming Spanish(DS) feels too hands-off for me, while Refold is a bit too intense. So, I have settled into using DS for 1-2 hours of comprehensible input a day. I also study flashcards, use Pimsleur, and listen to as much passive Spanish as I can, even when I don't understand the words or the meaning usually música or shows. Along with random KZbin videos, some Memrise, and anything else that catches my interest, I'm keeping the process fun. I feel like I'm getting the best of both worlds, tailored to my needs and abilities.

[@DoomscrollToFluency]

This is very similar to what I did! Mostly following DS and getting lots of comprehensible input while also using flashcards!

[@michaelsager5688]

@DoomscrollToFluency Thanks for sharing this! It gives me confidence to hear someone that came before me used a similar strategy 😁

[@joreneelanguages]

This is a great breakdown! I didn’t find out about dreaming Spanish until I was already intermediate, so I followed closer to the refold method, but I definitely think for most people a combo is the ideal way to go!

[@DoomscrollToFluency]

I agree. I think for any language but Spanish, refold is best but for Spanish, I can't recommend DS enough. I was similar in that I found Refold before I found DS. So I basically did a hybrid of the two methods where I used flashcards at the start but focused on CI instead of native content.

[@fizzy9270]

I've been learning Spanish with mostly dreaming spanish, some focused study in the beginning but now almost dreaming spanish exclusively. I pretty much only follow their method of using comprehensible input with a few exceptions of learning grammar intentionally (although still through CI, I recommend Español con Juan), and using Anki decks to practice conjugation and learning vocabulary. Has worked pretty great studying around 2 hours per day and I am pretty conversationally fluent in the 6 months I have been doing this and am able to speak with native speakers without a ton of difficulty, although I still have a lot more to learn.

[@DoomscrollToFluency]

that's awesome!

[@raysouth1952]

Great to see a ‘side-by-side’ review. I’m definitely a fan of Dreaming Spanish but being at a little less than 150 hours the type of content frustrates me no end. One, it’s boring and two, I keep thinking ‘but people don’t actually speak like this’. I do not watch anything that labels itself as ‘slow Spanish’. Despite the frustration, I do love the ease of the DS approach. I’m trying to ramp it up a bit by finding podcasts, Español con Juan for example, where transcripts are available. I listen first, then listen again reading the transcript. If I find not knowing a word really blocks my understanding I look it up in a Spanish-Spanish dictionary, no translations. I’ve only just started this process but I feel good doing it because I’m hearing Spanish at a pretty normal pace (Juan speaks quite quickly). I have no idea whether this will actually speed up the process but as I said, I feel good doing it.

[@DoomscrollToFluency]

I think the fastest approach is the approach that you love doing, and therefore will do more. So if you want to skip the 'for learners' content and jump straight into watching dubbed cartoons, that absolutely will work. I personally enjoyed the DS videos a lot and still occasionally watch them if they seem interesting but if you don't like them, finding something else is for the best.

[@HakendaNatan]

good

[@personalstevenlinham5445]

was a great explanation of the two platforms thank you

[@DoomscrollToFluency]

Thank you! I'm happy it could be helpful!

[@jordendarrett1725]

The best option is both!

[@DoomscrollToFluency]

This is basically what I did!

[@attachou]

I have tried refold for so long but I clash, I find the method like DS helps me best, as I hate anki and never was too keen on studying vocab daily, sometime i do close master here and there, but mostly i get input!

[@DoomscrollToFluency]

That's a great way to go about it!

[@zachsmith8916]

I fall into the category for Dreaming Spanish as someone who doesn´t necessarily enjoy a lot of the content. I do typically like Agustina´s videos about history, travel, geography, etc. That´s not to say I like zero percent of what the others put out but just not consistently, so it makes it a little disheartening when I find a lot of it kind of boring.

[@DoomscrollToFluency]

I totally understand that- It's not for everyone. Refold is definitely a good way to go if you don't like DS's videos!

[@katherinep1010]

I have had a great experience with Dreaming Spanish. I got bored with their content far before the 600 hour mark, but I found I was ready to move to some other learner focused content (mainly How to Spanish) as well as some Spanish dubbed shows that I had already seen many times in English. And after many hours of those I was ready for shows I hadn't seen yet dubbed into Spanish (still before 600 hours.) By 650 hours I was ready for some native Spanish content, though that can still be more difficult for me at 750 hours until I get used to individual speakers.

[@DoomscrollToFluency]

That's a really solid path. Basically using Dreaming Spanish as the fastest and easiest path towards watching more entertaining content but still getting to skip over the part where you're watching that content and it's completely incomprehensible. The first 750 hours were by far the hardest for me. After that, it just keeps getting easier and easier!!!

[@jeremymorris6738]

They're really the same method. They just use a different method for creating comprehensibility. Refold was originally designed for japanese, where there isn't really a resource like DS, but it just happens to be adaptable to any language. If there was a DS version for every language refold would basically be just doing that plus flashcards/learning the writing system.

[@DoingGreatThingsFunly]

This looks fun. How can I track my time to know how far I am to the 1000 hours?

[@DoomscrollToFluency]

If you are using the Dreaming Spanish website, any time you spend watching content on the website will be automatically recorded and there will be a progress bar showing you how far along you are! You can also add time spent outside the website in their tracker. If you want to track without using the Dreaming Spanish website, some common options are Toggl Tracker and PolyLogger.

[@alpacawithouthat987]

I dislike the Refold method because it feels way too tedious and like you have to micromanage every single minute of studying. I'm not the kind of person who could enjoy sentence-mining, flash cards, and the other methods they advise especially since I've used Dreaming Spanish. Dreaming Spanish is way less effort and still gives pretty good results. Refold takes all the fun out of language-learning for me because it feels like you have to do it basically full-time to benefit

[@DoomscrollToFluency]

It's so interesting to me how each method works for some but not for others. Everyone has to figure out what works for them!

[@attachou]

Same here!

[@vendingservices8900]

I’m using the DS method for Spanish, when I eventually start a 3rd language, I’ll probably use a combination of DS and hopefully I can find something similar to Dreamjng Spanish.

[@DoomscrollToFluency]

This is my plan too. I don’t think I would have ever learned another language without finding DS and wish it existed for more languages. But doing it once I see that it can be done.

[@handle-dash-numbers]

The biggest problem I see with DS is that it takes a very long time. If you're devoting 1 hour per day, it will take you FOUR YEARS to reach 1500 hours. If you're devoting two hours a day, it will still take TWO years before starting to even try output. And that's just to START with output. Of course, when you first start outputting, you're going to have a whole new set of learning to do. I don't see DS as being a good method by itself. It's a good source of material to leverage comprehensible input. But unless you're willing to spend a very long time for low-effort methods to eventually pay off, it should only be a PART of your learning plan.

[@DoomscrollToFluency]

According to the DS method, outputting is optional at 600 hours and recommended at 1000 hours.

[@handle-dash-numbers]

@@DoomscrollToFluency Oh, my mistake. I guess I got the specific number wrong. Now that I've said that, perhaps you can try to actually see the forest through the trees to recognize that my point still stands.

[@DoomscrollToFluency]

@@handle-dash-numbers there is a big difference between 600 hours and 1500 hours. Also, DS is not a ‘low effort method that eventually pays off,’ it is a method built around the idea that output abilities are a result of a strong mental model of the language- the only way to develop that is through lots of input. It is paying off the entire time because you are developing and expanding your mental model. Other popular input based methods also typically recommend some amount of time at the start where you are just getting input.

[@handle-dash-numbers]

@@DoomscrollToFluency Are you honestly this stupid that you aren't getting the point, or are you intentionally being stupid so that you can avoid the point? Sure, 600 hours. Do the elementary school level math. At an hour a day it will still take you two years to get there. At two hours a day, it will still take you a year. That is an extremely long time to wait before you start outputting. THAT is the point, you damn moron. How does it feel to be such a waste of oxygen? Your whole existence consists of making money off ad revenues from KZbin videos where you say stupid garbage, and then double down on that stupid garbage.

[@matthewgre]

I've tried Refold and DreamingSpanish methods (Chinese with Refold and Russian with DreamingSpanish). I learned how to speak a lot better in Chinese very quick, but I feel like my listening barely progressed (Granted, it may take hundreds of hours to get the listening payoff with Refold). I personally feel listening comprehension is the most important skill, so I use a more DreamingSpanish approach now, with a minimal amount of time alotted to anki and traditional studying. Also, Refold felt a bit unenjoyable.

[@DoomscrollToFluency]

I totally agree- listening is by far the most important! and it takes the longest to progress. once you have spent a lot of time listening, speaking comes a lot faster. but you have to do the listening first.

[@Pedro-bk1ic]

There's a lot to appreciate about both methods, and I've used both. However, input only learning can be counter productive in the long term. Too much emphasis on input without any concern about output will slow language learning in my experience. If you want to learn to read Spanish, you have to read in Spanish. If you want to learn to speak Spanish, you must speak in Spanish. Input and output have their own learning curves and are mutually supporting.

[@DoomscrollToFluency]

Personally, I think output practice is beneficial but only once you have a sufficiently formed mental model of the language. That is, until you have that, output practice is not beneficial, but once you do have that, it is helpful.

[@Pedro-bk1ic]

@@DoomscrollToFluency Toddlers begin output pretty early on, and well before they have any grasp of grammar at all. Output also gives the best encouragement and feedback. I'm all for tons of comprehensible input, but the extremism of stunting output is an obvious mistake.

[@aruda10]

@@Pedro-bk1ic But by the time toddlers start outputting, they've already had a lot of input. DS doesn't discourage output forever. It simply encourages delaying until one has had enough input-same as a toddler.

[@envahanime6220]

@@Pedro-bk1ic When toddlers begin to output words, they understand most of the words they can't say. when toddlers begin to output sentences they understand almost every form of sentence there is. Output's learning curve might not be the same as input, but it's dependent on your input learning curve. In refold method you stall outputting until you feel you want to output,, that's different for different people and it can be as early as 100hrs in. any output before that, you're simply building bad pronunciation habits as your brain is not even picking up on the voices and is just mapping it to your native language.