DRESSAGE DISASTER: Kittel VS Rath - Who Did It Better?

It has been a busy weekend at the Dressage CDI In France and we have the dressage disaster highlights for you here at Dressage Hub. Patrik Kittel and Bonamour had a disaster in the Grand Prix, not to be outdone by our previous dressage disaster video of Patrik Kittel and Bohemian also having a meltdown in the Grand Prix.
• DRESSAGE DISASTER: Boh...
To add to the collection of disasters we have a newcomer to the series Matthias Alexander Rath, who previously rode the dressage stallion Totilas is now riding a Totilas son in the Grand Prix. Thiago GS did not want to do the piaffe and passage tour after the walk and made sure that he let the whole world know.
Two top riders and horses both had the same problem this weekend. You tell us, who did it better?
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[@janets6474]

The fact that some horses tolerate such abuse is a testament to the character of the horse and NOT the human. 🙁

[@eh3477]

Many warmblood breeds will tolerate a certain amount of abuse, unfortunately. They'll tolerate less than draft breeds but way more than a hot -tempered thoroughbred, for example.

[@wutzelschnud]

Kittel did better than Rath, Kittel reduced pressure when he realizes that the horse is over the top. Rath used massive aids to press the horse together, so the horse felt no relive by ongoing the test.

[@jannagrosse8057]

I find both rides disgusting. Why forcing a overly stressed horse with this brutality? Why not taking the pressure off, relax the horse and waive the value note? Oh, yes, because of money. Really, I can't watch dressage any more.

[@Mazzeppa]

Both horses are so painful,its no wonder they misbehave!

[@littlepony8571]

They want out - of the vicegrip torture chamber

[@pamelamartyn7332]

They must cringe when they are putting them into the trailer for a show.

[@littlepony8571]

What is with the unevenness of this first horse up front, and the obvious soreness at the walk of the second indicating incredible muscular pain - compensation, Rollkur? It looks like nuchal ligament damage as seen in reining (drawreins) and driving horses (overcheck, hyperflexion). I have heard synthetic training is occuring in dressage and I believe it (elastics, chains). No hind carrying either with connectedness these days and impossible rideability. Not to condemn but this discipline needs to lay off the greed always asking more of horses and be happy with beauty in harmony with riders and willingness a first prerequisite in the horse which the test is maintaining this willingness

[@Flugkaninchen]

Not a fan of Kittel's riding in general, but in this case he handled it better. Better seat, and releasing pressure.

[@astridaseale1622]

Poor horses

[@feraforestno88o57]

What do you think caused this in the first place, besides the too compressed out line with the first horse?? I mean, think these horses know by heart these tests! They do them routinely for years. Then all of a sudden they have trouble in that certain spot? Could it be, that the horses anticipated nervously, after having had some very uncomfortable experiences with their riders recently, demanding too much? Maybe some last moment's improving/perfecting attempts just the day before (after seen the judges' scores of the previous day's test)? It seems quite clear to me, that these horses connected their FEAR of possibly coming abuse with the movement/spot!

[@george.6556]

They force them into a rollkur at home. And now present them to the judges in a somewhat more allowing frame (still tight and behind the vertical) and expect miracles. Clearly not horsemen. I was once instructed by my trainer...ride your horse as if you're presenting him to the judges. In other words, don't do anything that would not be allowed in the show ring.

[@smile_y2.0]

non of it looked good, but from the part I saw I think that Kittel was calmer and more patient (while managing bonamour)

[@hannireglinski612]

Horrible...in my opinion they don't understand anything of good horsemenship...poor horses

[@nellafrosst6453]

I saw two riders who managed a bad moment pretty well. Both patted their horses, had lovely seats to follow the crazy movement ( many of us would fall off during those antics) , and continued on calmly with the test once the horse was a bit more settled. Yes there was a lot of tension, which really showed when the horses were asked to piaffe, but we don’t know if this tension was due to training, management, or the situation at the moment. Horses capable and fit enough to perform high level dressage are also capable of putting that athletic ability to use in unwanted ways.

[@saarlooswolfhund6237]

Obviously you are blind.

[@barbarabrown9269]

That beautiful chestnut is lame in the near fore. How could rider miss that before the ask for the Piaffe???

[@waspbitch6014]

Thank you. Thought I was seeing things!💔🤘

[@janets6474]

Can you imagine what these horses endure when not in the public eye? Where NO ONE is watching?!? Horses are honest. They are not like people who hide who they are. Poor loves 😢

[@jonjonwp]

When not in the public eye. So true.

[@brigittepeterson8677]

I can tell you from personal experience; that Thiago is a loved member of the Schafhof family. He gets treated like Royalty, on the ground, in the Stall and under saddle. Just like all of the other horses that live there. From the 30 year old brood mare that hasn't had a foals for 22 years to Thiago; etc. All if the horses get turn out. Yes, the stallions as well. They go on long hacks if weather permitting. Everyone makes sure that the horses are really feeling their best. Inside and out.

[@StanWatt.]

What do you think they're doing when they teach dressage? It's not all torture, nor abuse. Horses have off days too. Period.

[@falyoung2784]

@@brigittepeterson8677 yeah, but there are more important things than winning a ribbon. If the horse is freaked out, or too stressed, I would just call it off. The end. Or ask the judges for a redo. I have no doubt that prize winners are treated well (in order to win), and after too, but I just don't agree with pushing a horse to perform - or do any kind of tricks. I know most handlers disagree with me, but oh well. I prioritize a horse's mental health above competing, always.

[@eh3477]

I was thinking the same. Rath's mediocre riding and terrible response to his horse's outburst makes me think they have abusive practices at home.

[@jonjonwp]

Both as bad as each other. The horses said no thank you to hard handed riding..

[@amandabilger2235]

I admit that I have never done dressage, but I do know horses. What I saw were 2 horses that were tired of having their necks bowed, chin to chest, and they were demanding some relief from it.

[@vibeskouenborg6842]

This riding is DISASTER. Why do people find this sport nice?

[@KK-mm8ms]

I'm just sad.

[@chateaupig826]

Me too 😢😔 Asking too much

[@adelaschneiderova6959]

Well. To all of the critisism here I have a point. Studies has revealed, the most discomfort and signs of stress showed the horses in lower classes tests under not profesionals riders. However Kittel is known for rollkur, and Rath with Totilas as well, the both are much more correct riders than most of us. It doesn’t mean, we are supposed to be blind and voiceless, but please stop saying something like “poor horse, such a pain”, “two bridles how could be the horse ok” etc, and lets speak constructively what they should have done better (and they have the skills to do better!!) Because we have to still remember, that our riding is probably worse for a horse and much more stressfull and painfull thanks to our seat, not independent hand, flying legs etc., no matter whether we use bridles and stirups, whether we ride a horse only in countryside or in ring. Lets critise, not judge. Lets talk about correct riding, not damn the dressage itself.

[@crazyhairsinger]

Sorry but no. Heavy bridles and bits like those are bound to cause pain, especially with hard handed riding. Plus you said it yourself, these people are known to use rollkur and CAN do better than this. Why not judge? They aren't little kids just learning how to ride. They're professionals. They know what makes a horse comfortable and what doesn't. And they're deliberately choosing the things that make them not even just uncomfortable, but cause great pain. Thse people only care about the money, not the horse, and it shows.

[@janets6474]

Conversely, correctly ridden dressage is beautiful. A true conversation between a horse and their rider whose real expression is love for their sport and for each other. A mutual language of trust built over years of work, relaxation, strengthening of muscles, and conversations that lead to mutual joy for what they are doing and why they are doing it. ❤

[@brigittepeterson8677]

​@crazyhairsinger can you show us the correct way of doing it? I would love to see a Video of you just on a regular day in your regular every day arena riding a simple 3rd level test. Just something easy. I am always eager to learn.

[@crazyhairsinger]

@@brigittepeterson8677 No need to see a video of me, just look at all the dressage videos around on KZbin. Constant tail swishing, excessive salivation, bleeding lips, contracted neck muscles. All signs the horse is uncomfortable. Even a rando on the street would notice that the horse isn't having a good time. But thse are professionals. People that are far more experienced than any of us here. They know rollkur, heavy bits, and constant spurring are bad for sure. Yet they still do it.

[@j.m.8545]

The virtue signaling pat on the neck is so phony.

[@sandirobinson6966]

Both of them are a mess. That dark horse (first one) is so NOT forward and resisting so badly, he looks like he is in pain. The second red horse - holy cats - he even walks like he's been sored either chemically or with chains. He is miserable and afraid. His moves are so artificial and stilted - not even close to fluid and natural. These people should be ashamed to call this garbage dressage, and assuredly not horsemanship.

[@jakob588]

Rath made pretty much pressure but his horse in general is much better ridden than kittels

[@schuylervanwoerden2463]

These dressage riders have the hardest hands on earth,like the vast majority of professional dressage riders. With few exceptions,they represent the antithesis of horsemanship.

[@Hverdagshesten]

The second one is so obviously unsound!

[@comesahorseman]

Should I judge? Not knowing the horses/riders/training history/etc., probably not. My impression, 'though, is that these horses need more exposure and need to be taught relaxation. JMO.

[@jonjonwp]

Or less hard handed riding.

[@AccidentallyOnPurpose]

Horses can't relax when they have their faces cranked to their chest like with the first one. Second horse though needs more exposure therapy.

[@janets6474]

But any decent, horse loving person can see the pain being inflicted.

[@SarahQG-qr9cc]

They don't need to "learn" to relax, they'll relax if they feel comfortable, which they obviously don't with this kind of training.

[@erenjager1081]

It's unexplainable to me why Kittel is still allowed to compede after Scandic...

[@Nicole-qc5dh]

I don't particularly like either of these, but if one was better it would be Kittle. Rath just fed the behavior with immense amounts of pressure and no release.

[@cynthiacash-v9o]

These poor horses are being placed in a pressure cooker. Think about it, they are being constantly spurred (the signal to GO), while at the very same time being reined in (signal to STOP) to the max....just look at the type of bit, a head position that it totally flexed, if not overflexed, with heavy saliva and foam from the mouth. Like driving a car with the accelerator down while at the same time applying the brakes!!! The horse is being given totally mixed signals, strongly, while being asked (commanded?) to perform at tip-top levels. The stress is enormous. Dressage is asking more and more of these horses, which is why we are seeing so many dressage disasters in the last year or so. The horses are simply saying "Too much, I've had enough". When are folks going to listen?

[@suzanneberkhout-simoons4577]

Paarden geven aan, dat ze zich niet prettig voelen, maar wij gaan door met ons grens overschrijdend gedrag

[@isacerro754]

Unfassbar!!!! Mir fehlen die Worte. Die armen Pferde. Warum wird da nicht eingefriffen!!!!!!

[@echoworks4836]

That first horse had his nose to his damn chest. Of COURSE the horse is going to fight you?

[@lily.0317]

Réponse normale des chevaux à la douleur

[@caciliawhy5195]

The cruelty of Rath with kicking and holding and not allowing the horse to move forward. Both of you, put your effing hands forward.

[@alfie8953]

Reaction to pain in both horses. Pointless asking who handled it best. Shameful.

[@jacquelynburke157]

These are unhappy, stressed horses. A people sport...not a horse sport. Just AIN'T NATURAL!!

[@senka2578]

Kittel for sure did better at handling the horse when it had a meltdown.

[@gwendiferous]

Get rid of the negative reinforcement and the hardware that goes with it. Then you will see real partnership and harmony. The abusers can not train with out their devices.

[@jeanetteeliasson9805]

No one, animal abusers, this shouldnt be concider as a sport

[@janehorne4281]

How can the FEI allow this😢

[@Majery]

Both did great! Super riders!!

[@brigittepeterson8677]

Can you show us a better way of horsemanship? What would you have done differently in this situation?

[@KK-mm8ms]

It looks like these are training issues, not as much competition issues. No horse should be that confined during what should be an opportunity to shine. It was forced. Forced. I'm no bleeding heart, I ride but c'mon. These horses had training issues before the warm up...the riders, too.

[@sjaelfre]

Can you gaslight and deflect harder?

[@utemeckbach9786]

Get off the horse

[@valerieschannel8902]

I had situations where my horse got spooked (never a situation like this where i had him too tight), i gave him space, always worked with soft hands and comforted him. I prefer that way more than pulling his chin to his chest... Ps: i was a st georges rider, training towards grand prix, but unfortunately my horse died due to colic. But anyways, just so u know I'm not a noob. 🙂 i got high points and a lot of compliments from the jury for my soft way of riding.

[@joanneskeels7766]

does anybody notice out there these horses that act like this they appear to be hallucinating or seeing something that's not there I believe somebody's out there poisoning them or giving them little treats with hallucinogenic drugs! horses do not act this way trained horses even under stress they don't see weird things and these horses I've watched video after video of this same thing happening to these beautiful horses. Horses do not act like this! Something is very wrong and it's happening in stables where these horses live and they're being compromised because of people who are jealous and want to win and they'll do anything for it. This is an infuriating situation infuriated!Creepy people doing insane, illegal and creepy things to animals. It's been around for a long time. The horse is not being obstinate or stressed or anything else. The horse is hallucinating.

[@DressageHub]

It's trigger stacking. we have some videos on it

[@ourfather7]

It has become animal abuse you can see the stress or drugged horses. God help us over evil!

[@barbstein9016]

Nightmare to watch !

[@sandrajenkins6822]

Embarrassing to watch. Dressage is dead.

[@mauram3941]

The first horse was super lame and shouldn’t have been ridden, the second horse looks partially sedated IMO

[@piafeldhege698]

😢

[@2bzyblack]

that's not dancing, that is rock and roll! just hand over your horses to me....

[@jenniferwagner9206]

Both riders did very well !

[@sjaelfre]

Helgstrand partner and nepo grifter Kittel is a better and more disingenuous actor, that's the biggest difference. Cut from the same cloth.

[@HelenaBjörkman-o9b]

Stackars hästar :( Varför?

[@atsushisakurai7849]

It's not disaster, quite rude to say. Frist horse got spooky, shit happens.

[@christinebaker8754]

Both are sh** and this sh** behaviour is all too common these days as are blue tongue, spur and mouth bleed. Both riders should stop spurring and reining, dismount and leave the arena reassuring the horse. That would show real humanity and horsemanship. Stuff the test and stuff modern horse-triggering “dressage” methods. Watch the old masters and learn - Klimke and Co - smooth, calm, balance, light contact.

[@suzanneberkhout-simoons4577]

Both so wrong. They don’t listnen to the horses

[@MrFarnese]

Kittel is better in any way, he is a world class rider, rath absolut not. Rath has only the money for this sport, he lacks of talent.